Intimacy.. Or lack thereof?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I have been in a pretty turbulent on and off again BPD young woman for a year and a half. In that time, we have never slept together. I'm not in it for the sex, so it didn't bother me... But I found out that during our "breaks" she would be very promiscuous with many men... It killed me. I get rejected time and time again. I posted the details in the Intro section as well, but it  was suggested I post in here too. Anyway, she has no problem being sexual, just does with me. She says that sex is just sex to her, that I'm very emotional and she's not ready for that, that she's scared that once I "get it" I won't love her anymore... And the latest was that she wants to, but won't because I'm leaving her... . Also says that her and I have something that she will never have with anyone else. I'm the guy she brings home to mom and dad. She says she loves me because I respect her and treat her right.

In a "break" and knowing she was seeing other men, I begged for her back,

And she said no. So in a very rash decision, I packed up and moved 1500 miles. She didn't seem to care at all, until it finally sank in I was really going. We then spent a lot of time together, went through a whole push pull cycle in a week, and wound up leaving on good terms... With plans to see each other in June. Since getting here though, I only get one word texts from her, and she doesn't say I love you or I miss you back anymore. I'm not sure what to do. I know she's with other guys, and it kills me. I'm doing my best to just ride it out until june, but it's been rough. Any opinions or suggestions would be an amazing help. Thanks

[Strength27]

I have been in a pretty turbulent on and off again BPD young woman for a year and a half. In that time, we have never slept together. I'm not in it for the sex, so it didn't bother me... But I found out that during our "breaks" she would be very promiscuous with many men... It killed me. I get rejected time and time again. I posted the details in the Intro section as well, but it  was suggested I post in here too. Anyway, she has no problem being sexual, just does with me. She says that sex is just sex to her, that I'm very emotional and she's not ready for that, that she's scared that once I "get it" I won't love her anymore... And the latest was that she wants to, but won't because I'm leaving her... . Also says that her and I have something that she will never have with anyone else. I'm the guy she brings home to mom and dad. She says she loves me because I respect her and treat her right.

In a "break" and knowing she was seeing other men, I begged for her back,

And she said no. So in a very rash decision, I packed up and moved 1500 miles. She didn't seem to care at all, until it finally sank in I was really going. We then spent a lot of time together, went through a whole push pull cycle in a week, and wound up leaving on good terms... With plans to see each other in June. Since getting here though, I only get one word texts from her, and she doesn't say I love you or I miss you back anymore. I'm not sure what to do. I know she's with other guys, and it kills me. I'm doing my best to just ride it out until june, but it's been rough. Any opinions or suggestions would be an amazing help. Thanks

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[MissyM]

Well, sometimes BPDs have sexual addiction.  My dBPDh has drug and sex addiction.  It is common for sex addicts to be unable to have sex when it is emotionally close, so that sounds like what she is saying.  It is called sexual anorexia.  Might want to look into it.  Not saying that is what it is, just that this is something I hear a lot of in my support groups for spouses of SAs and therapy groups.  My dBPDh was sexually anorexic most of our marriage but he wasn't having sex with anyone.  That started after he had been addicted to drugs, he just changed addictions after drug rehab.  Apparently because he didn't get help for his personality disorder and didn't stay with recovery work.  The therapist that we are staring with that treats BPD, said that she hears of the sexual impulsivity a lot for BPDs.

[Strength27]

Thanks, I've never heard of that before. I looked that up and it seems to fit perfectly. I know I have rejection issues myself, and some of what I read made me feel a lot better about myself. To just not be wanted or felt loved by the one person you would do anything for is hard. How do I approach her with that? Do I say anything or just continue to let this happen? I guess I'm becoming an enabler, but being so far away for an indefinite amount of time is hard. Do I still just try to talk to her daily? This isn't about the sexual anorexia now, just trying to maintain some semblance of a relationship or at least being in each other's lives until we get to see each other again.

[Stalwart]

Well Strength I'll respond the best I can with a subject that is very difficult to understand and situationally different for everyone.

I feel for you  but I can honestly say I can’t truly understand all this, “I'm not in it for the sex, so it didn't bother me... ” but now it seems to. Is that because you thought she was platonic by nature so that was OK with you until you found out she wasn’t?

I speak with a lot of different people with BPD on line and ask a lot of questions apart from my own experience with it in my relationship. I’ve also experienced a similar situation with marital infidelity and how that affected my wife and myself.

I’ll give you some words from a woman I conversed with on this same subject of infidelity and feelings about it. Perhaps that will help you understand better that a lot of females have (not an insatiable need for sex, a lot don’t value it, but an insatiable need for the personal ATTENTION and perceived feeling of admiration, false or not, that sexual contact gives to them.)

“To me I always think I'm in love. But really I don't know what that means. So I can " love" more than one person at once because I don't allow myself to attach to anyone though I can manipulate anyone to think that... . For me I would get bored and if I thought I wasn't getting the right love and affection I felt unloved so it would make me become hateful and start flirting with other men... . It was like you were doing me wrong. How dare you basically. Me going to someone else for affection and sex was nothing to me. I didn't feel bad or remorseful. I felt like my boyfriend wasn't giving me what I needed.

Now love for a man is so different. When I fall in love, I fall hard and fast. I am so eager for the love attention and affection I never got and deserve, that any form of any of those three are mistaken for real love... .

I do think I was truly in love with my youngest sons father. He was the first man I had not cheated on. Until the loss of affection and attention happened. As soon as I feel wronged , it is like shutting of a switch inside me. I can block feelings... . I put up walls and things are never the same. I tried to fix things with us. Like couples counseling and always telling him what I needed from him as a man... . But he didn't change... . So either did I.

So there are my feelings on love. Not really sure I am capable of truly loving a man for i barely able to love myself .”

It seems to me that your relationship was built on a platonic platform so she didn’t have that pressure of sex with you, although needed the attention from somewhere that she missed that way in your relationship. When my wife was having a year-long affair she explained her “lack if feelings” or shutting off the switch on me in this way.

“I knew you didn’t love me the way you used to and I needed that. I didn’t care any longer about you in a sexual or intimate way. It was as though we were really good friends or room mates. You’ve always been my rock, my one place of safety, why would I leave you? You’ve always been there for me, been a good provider and good company but I just didn’t care about you anymore. You can love someone but not be in love with them.”

If you can make sense out of that type of thinking perhaps you can begin to make sense out of your situation.

I wish you the best of luck with it but tread carefully accusing her of any wrong doing or blame. She won’t perceive her needs being filled as having anything wrong about it. Making her feel guilty will probably end up with a backlash at you. After all you were content with a platonic relationship – right?

Sounds harsh, crazy and cruel to a point but it’s the reality of some of their thinking.

[MissyM]

I agree with Salwart, in that at it's heart it is an attachment disorder.  There is a good book called Intimacy Anorexia by Doug Weiss, a lot of it was like reading my life.  He puts a religious spin on working through things but my dBPDh and I were doing the emotional exercises for a while.  Sadly, there isn't much you can do unless she wants to change. 

My dBPDh has done some work on his intimacy and attachment issues but we need DBT to get through to a closer level.  We are going to start a DBT program for couples on Monday.  my dBPDh really wants to work this out and be close, the connection is the motivating thing for him.  I am only now beginning to understand how much staying connected to me and the kids means to his stability. 

[Strength27]

Thank you both for your in depth replies, it really means a lot. Stalwart, I guess I should clarify. When I said I wasn't in it for the sex, I meat that when I started dating her, my motive was to "wham bam and thank you ma'am" or "hit it and quit it". I've told her how I'm in this for the long run. And that nothing she could do would change that. I do think that physical intimacy is important in a romantic relstionship, however I don't think it should be an obligation or something you "have" to do. Both partners should WANT to be with each other. When we first started dating she made a comment about how much she appreciated me respecting her, and things would happen when she was ready. What killed me was finding out that she was actually sleeping with numerous men the whole time. While I thought I was doing the right thing, she was just getting the attention that I wanted too elsewhere. Furthermore, she is extremely jealous... And I caught myself feeling some resentment towards her, and that's not ok. Let me explain. The other night, she was going through my phone, and found a picture of me at a group dinner that had a girl next to me at a table. She became so upset, she deleted the picture and threw my phone across the bar. So while I desperately try to make sure I don't even get into situations that might trigger something, she is out having sex with men that don't care about her in the least. It's awful. I'm realizing I can't fix it and that she needs to want to change for herself, but it's still difficult. From 1500 miles away my stomach still flips everytime i know she's with a guy, or off of work, etc. I know there are a lot of double standards, and maybe I'm setting myself up for failure- but I've told her and her family numerous times. I love her, I'm doing my best to learn to support her the best way I know how, and that I'm not going anywhere. This kind of reletionship isn't for the feint of heart, but I am strong. I know she is too. I am holding in I the hope that her therapy coming up in may, and me seeing her in June, we can give this a real shot. Am I out of line with any of that?

I will also see if I can find that book. Even after just looking at a few websites it seems that that's exactly the situation. Thanks again for your time!

[Strength27]

Just a quick update for you guys: in a terrible moment of weakness I sent a Long winded heartfelt text  message to her. She ignored it, then the next night replied with exactly what you said-  a nice backlash. It wasn't good.  I asked if I should cancel my flight home, but she ask she still wanted to see me. Told her I was excited for that and I just never got any kind of response. I think making a fool out of myself in the worst way will actually improve how I handle things like this in the future. I have deleted all of her contact information, and have it written down and put away. I am going to try nc for at least a couple weeks, and allow us both room to grow and get therapy. While I know she's still out with others, there is nothing I can do to change that. It needs to come from her. I will be using this time to read all I can about this and try to work I myself. Maybe in late June a reconciliation will be possible.

[an0ught]

Hi Strength27,

while she may suffer from attachment problems it is worth keeping in mind that you only control your side. Which can be infinitely frustrating... .

What you can work on however is healthy attachment behavior

- not letting her play drama queen and get away with it

- validating communicatino (validation connects).

It is also important to work and maintain important anchors outside your relationship. This push-pull can wreck havoc with your own ability to attach in healthy matters. Maintaining a healthy balance in your life is absolutely key.

[Stalwart]

Hey Strength:

I really am sorry how this has turned around. They say things happen for the best (I've never quite figured out who 'they' are or what they always mean by the best, but?). I hope you spend the time really considering your role in her life and what you may be missing out in yours as well pusuiting such a difficult path. Sometimes our committments to other family members (and their support trying to keep us engaged) is a real determining factor in our decisions. Remember her family has spent their life dealing with the problems and would also for most parts be glad if someone could actually take some of it a way from their responsibility and daily lives. Not a nice thing to say but it's also been my experience. Again, is that about you?

I don't mean to sound cynical in as much as it should all be about you, it never should and yes we all have to consider others in our lives, but from what you've said about her life you are probably doing well taking some time away to take a long distant look and give yourself time.

Best of luck with it my friend.

[Strength27]

Thanks, I don't think you're being cynical... More of a realist haha! I am just trying to find my inner peace with all of this. I've recently gotten a dream job that I've been focused on and that's been keeping me busy. In an interesting turn of events, she called me 2 nights ago... And we talked for 2 hours. Again, pretty much everything I've wanted to hear for the first almost 2 years of knowing her. She mentioned an ex that she has been hanging out with, and told me how he was trying to get back with her, and how she isn't interested at all I him. I'm not sure what the point if bringing that up was, especially since I know that they are (or at least were) sleeping together. Regardless, I have just kept my distance. The heart wants what it wants, and you are right... I can only control my side of things. I choose to live my life and let her live hers as well... I'll always love her, and it will be a blessing if our plans for June play out, but it's also time to focus on my own well being. That being said, I've always finally come to terms with the fact that I can't take care if her or make her better. That's a long difficult path she needs to walk on her own. If it plays out that I'm there at the end of that path, fantastic. If not, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Just going to live it up now, and see what happens during that weekend in June.

[Stalwart]

 

[Strength27]

An update to the update. Probably for my own benefit. This morning, I got a message from her... Telling me about her first day of therapy and how hard it was and wishing I could be there. Of course I took the bait and sent a nice message back. Which led to a phone call. Which led to her becoming angry at me and "not in the mood to talk to me." Haven't heard from her since. It's almost like these cycles are getting closer and closer together and moving faster and faster. Still doing my best to just love her from afar, be supportive, and do what's best for me. All of that is extremely hard right now. Feelings of resentment are creeping in. I am her rock. The shoulder. The one she brought home to mom and dad. The one that respected her and did things the right way. Turns out it was all a sham. I am constantly just being manipulated, and made to feel like an inadequate piece of garbage- even after all of the things I do and probably will continue to do for her... All while order guys take advantage of her. It's so hard to sit back and let that happen. Everytime I get the feeling she's with another guy I feel rejected, unwanted, unloved. Why not me? Just the feelings I'm having today. Trying to begin nc again, it's just so hard

[DreamFlyer99]

Strength27,

you said,

I am constantly just being manipulated, and made to feel like an inadequate piece of garbage- even after all of the things I do and probably will continue to do for her... All while order guys take advantage of her

Are you able to accept that this can be the relationship dynamic for however long? That's what it takes to stay. And the only hope you can have for the situation is in what you learn, how you change. If you can learn enough about her condition to be able to fully accept her as she is, and in learning about her condition also learn how to see that what she says is more about how she feels about herself so you don't take things so personally (thus feeling like crap and worthless) you'll definitely be in a better place to go the distance with her.

What is your hope for going NC again?

[Strength27]

I've done my best to accept it for a year and a half now. That's a great point about me learning  to not take it personally. It's more her actions than the words that sting the most. My hope for nc is that absence will make her heart grow fonder... It will also give her time to go through some therapy without me being a distraction, and if will be proof to me she's in therapy for the right reasons. It will also give me some time to work on myself. Thoughts of her affect my entire day. It's almost consuming... Never experienced emotion to this extent before. I am hoping that with some time I will be able to accept her for her, and seeing her again in June will just be a drama free, incredible weekend. Maybe I'm looking at  it as a chance to start fresh with her.

[DreamFlyer99]

Well then, definitely read everything you can on the subject, and learn the tools for communication and self-care. Often when we're in a relationship that's so intense we can forget to take care of ourselves because we're focusing so hard on trying to meet the other person's needs.

Just to the right in the sidebar is a lot of great info about how we as the non can work on ourselves (the only one we can truly control) in the interest of a better relationship with our loved one with BPD. Start there and go through every step of it would be my suggestion.

[Strength27]

Thanks so much. I will do that. My sincere hope is that she'll want the se... Time will tell.

[DreamFlyer99]

Exactly, time will tell. But the work you're doing will help you in relationships for the rest of your life.

[SweetCharlotte]

It sounds very unusual, Strength, because generally pwBPD are very passionate about intimate relations. Their push-and-pull always seems to include sex when they are pulling a partner in. Hence, I wonder whether this is not a primary relationship for her, whether she is using this r/s as an escape or refuge in-between her sexual exploits with men who wind up taking advantage of her. In other words, she is not taking a break from your r/s by pursuing other men; she comes back to you when she is taking a break from pursuing romantic intimacy. She does sound possessive of you, but she seems to have decided that you are her rock and there's to be no sex on the rock. Sex for her is necessarily unstable and chaotic. And usually if a sexual attraction is going to ignite between two adults, it happens sooner rather than later. There's a reason for the "four-date rule" (some would say three dates). After that, the probability of sparking something goes down. What kind of future does this situation hold for you? Now that you perceive the manipulation and incapacity for real intimacy she offers, does it make you want to put it behind you? I hope that by June you will feel kind of disgusted with this person and prefer someone who represents possibilities rather than a dead-end.

On a personal note, when I was in my twenties I just could not feel turned on by men who were really interested in a committed relationship with me. I felt like a gay person trying to be straight when I would go out on a date with an ardent suitor who couldn't wait to go steady with me and probably marry me. I could only feel turned on by men who were in some way dangerous to me (just passing through, notorious playboys, Peter Pans, etc.). Sometimes I tried to be friends with a man who was truly interested in me, but I did not string him along the way that this young lady seems to be doing with you. I needed to cry on a man's shoulder at times (my girlfriends' shoulders would get all soggy), and sometimes I wanted to have an escort for a social function, or just be seen with a nice guy for a change. Maybe it wasn't the best thing for these guys, but I didn't lead them on. What I'm getting at with regard to your situation is that none of these non-sexual "escape"-type relationships could ever become sexual for me. Hence, I would wish for you to spend this time figuring out why you became so "into" this person. What need of yours did she meet by rejecting you sexually or by postponing intimacy indefinitely?

[Strength27]

Hey there, thanks for your reply. That's a very good albeit very depressing point. She has given me numerous reasons as to why she's withheld it- lately the reasons have been that "with me, it wouldn't be just sex," "I'm leaving her," and "once I got it I might not want her anymore." I guess I just chose to believe those. I thought that if I stuck through it, she would see that I wasn't going anywhere, and that eventually when it did happen, it would actually mean something. While she constantly lies about her sexual exploits, eventually she does tell me about the guys she's been with. I do feel disgusted, but feelings of rejection, self doubt and unfortunately enough self hate always shine through the disgust. I am aware I deserve better, and I'm also aware that other girls have been interested in me that I have blatantly turned down, potentially

Preventing the possibility of finding someone that would make me happy.

I am holding on to the notion that if I am patient enough, she will make it through therapy, I'll grow as a person and finally be happy on my own, and then maybe eventually we will be ready for each other. As for being the primary relationship... While I'm probably not now being so far away, I definitely think I was when I was back home. Holiday dinners, meeting her family numerous times, the hours of conversation, and being together all the time. Events that would take all day or long day trips to far away places. Maybe I'm just lying to myself, but she made me feel like I was it.

There is one piece of the story I left out-

Last summer, I thought I had finally moved on... I cut her out of my life and dated another girl briefly. She was devastated. Begged for me back, promised to change her life and go to therapy, etc etc. she came over and tried to have sex with me, and for that one moment I time, I was just so prideful that I denied her. Sometimes I wonder if that has anything to do with her being so reluctant to sleeping with me.

[Strength27]

To be completely honest, as of now our plan was to go to an all weekend music festival, and I'm really hoping it happens then. If not, you are probably right, and it will probably never happen.

[Stalwart]

I have no doubt in my mind that Strength is the rock she tries to cling to. Being a rock isn't an easy place to be when your the one that's left out of all the intimicy because she seeks it in other places. My wife didn't leave with the person she had affair with, even though that was her original intent because she realized he wasn't what she needed. She couldn't leave her "rock". That doesn't mean that for a year and half of her having an affair that rock wasn't just totally ignored, abused and kicked around. I was. Like she said later in a twisted way of thinking: You can love someone and not be in love with them at the time?

Being a rock isn't as strong and stable as it might appear to be. Kick a rock enough and it's bound to roll down the closest hill as well.

I'm sure Strength represents a rock to his SO and probably if they didn't live in a long-deistance situation he may have a chance of gaining her total trust and interest if he was really good at doing that and he might have a chance at a really good relationship if he learned enough about himself and her to manage that. But in a long distance relationship he just can't fill that constant need for admiration and acceptance that sex probably offers to his SO so she seeks where she can find it.

I've seen so many other people say that BPD woman are just sexually needy and it's been my experience that it really isn't about the sex and most actually don't really overly enjoy sex. It seems to me that many USE sex as a tool to fill a need, not a sexual need but the need for attention and affirmation and mistake sex for love and admiration when in most cases with casual men sex is probably more about sex than it is an emotional committment and sentiment.

I do wish Strength luck in June when he visits her and I hope he goes forward to better understand the situation and makes really good decisions for both of them.

[Strength27]

Thanks. The battle now is staying strong, learning as much as I can, not taking anything personally, and improving the things I can actually control. It hard not calling or texting her, and I've been working on a letter for a few days... I'm not sure if I'll actually send it or not- it's just a cheesy light hearted I miss you sort of thing, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. I need to focus on myself, and just be happy if she tries to initiate any contact

[SweetCharlotte]

Being a rock isn't as strong and stable as it might appear to be. Kick a rock enough and it's bound to roll down the closest hill as well.

LOL! I really like that one.

[Strength27]

Hello again,

I don't want to beat a dead horse here- I need to Pick a route and stick to it. I just wanted some opinions... In my reading, I've learned that abandonment issues are very difficult for BPDs to handle. Obviously, me going so far away will play a part in that. While I've already explained my reasoning for starting Nc, do you guys think it would be a good idea to send a short message every day? Just like an "I miss you" text or something. While I realize I won't get a response, it may lay some ground work for June. Any thoughts? Thanks 

[DreamFlyer99]

Does she show any interest in getting therapy for herself?

[Strength27]

Actually yes she does. She sent me a message the other day about we first day of therapy, and then one today just wishing me a good day

[DreamFlyer99]

Well THAT'S positive!

[Strength27]

I suppose! Haha I replied I her and as expected I haven't heard back.

[Strength27]

It's been pretty tough lately. I haven't heard from her. Still in that sad, pathetic, lonely stage I guess. I have glimmers of feeling good and likely old self, and that's when I'm busy with work or working out. Any time I have down time though, my mind wanders. I need to do better at that. I have been writing her every day, but I haven't sent anything. I'm not sure it's a good idea or not.

[DreamFlyer99]

It's been pretty tough lately. I haven't heard from her. Still in that sad, pathetic, lonely stage I guess. I have glimmers of feeling good and likely old self, and that's when I'm busy with work or working out. Any time I have down time though, my mind wanders. I need to do better at that. I have been writing her every day, but I haven't sent anything. I'm not sure it's a good idea or not.

That's a tough place to be for sure.