BPDFamily.com

After coming to a good place with myself, I'm now able to look back at my 2-year r/s with my exBPDbf with more detachment. I'm looking at specific behaviors (on both parts) through a much clearer lens.

I actually got scared and ended things only 1 month in. I was reading books on how to deal with stalkers. I read up on BPD (I didn't know then that he had it -- but everything fit, I mean every trait). I initiated NC. I asked a friend to help me choose a gun and learn how to use it.

I am an idiot who went back.   He contacted me a few weeks after I broke up with him... . and he really seemed to have changed his behavior and was respecting my boundaries. He was really good for a year (also, he was sober for that first year). He was pretty self-aware and honest about his issues. So by the time the Crazy Train got up to full speed, I was a 100% dedicated lifetime passenger.

Anyway, I thought I'd share some of those big red flags that I foolishly ignored or rationalized away.

According to him, this is what his past girlfriends said about him:

-"I have a Jekyll and Hyde personality."

-"There's a really good honeymoon period, but then... . "

-"I seem to have a short shelf life."

-"I can be too controlling/possessive."

What he said about himself:

-"I see everything in black and white."

-"I'm incredibly emotional."

-"I'm so full of anger."

-"I'm bad."

-"I'm no good for you."

-"I love strong women. [pause] I love to break them."

-"I always wind up pushing away the people I care about most."

What this says about me:

Obviously I need to trust my gut, believe people when they say these things, and then run far away. And stay there.  :)

Looking back on your own r/s's, what red flags do you see now that you ignored? Do you find that you distrusted your gut instinct? If so, why do you think you did?

She told me her definition of what love is. Something seemed abnormal about her description of it which I couldn't really understand.  red-flag

She referred to me as "the one who will give her a baby" too often.  red-flag

When we were writing our wedding vows out she seemed bored. WOW  red-flag

Apparently the reason I overlooked these things -> I was in Denial

I ignored a few gut feelings. There was something about him that put fear in me, but I also wanted to conquer that. The first night we were together he said " I've waited for you my whole life" red-flag and " I always wanted a " my local suburb where we grew up " girlfriend  red-flag. The FIRST night! I was so in need of him. He commented to my best friend I seemed very vulnerable red-flag many many other red flags, but I fell hard. Then recently he told me his ex wife told him he was an an unknown quantity red-flag and he would never be able to survive in the real work and live on his own red-flag. He is flattered by these comments made to him 25 years ago. Recently too he told me he can be fiery red-flag and that he beat his ex girlfriends brother to a pulp red-flag also one of the last times we had sex I looked up at him and didn't recognise him. He looked like a madman.  red-flag I'd never seen that look before. And then it was over. I try to use these red flags to keep me no contact cos it's still so raw and sometimes I fall into wanting to talk it out. Another  red-flag I saw when I hacked his FB account and read messages to my best friend, he had sent her a photo of he and I kissing and happy, then underneath had sent " hahahahaha" red-flag I have no concept what that means. Was he laughing at me? Because i fell for him? That one still cuts me deep. I try not to think about what it means. Red flags everywhere really. Still I am so grateful to have met him because he slapped me awake and has made me look hard at my life and make changes. I don't regret that. Cut me to the core.

  red-flag He claimed to have fallen in love with me instantly

red-flag  He claimed that his god had lead him to me

red-flag He said that all the abuse, trauma and suffering in his life now made sense, as it lead him to me

red-flag He sunk into a depression on our wedding day and had to be hospitalised in a psychiatric hospital 2 weeks into our marriage  (I felt TERRIBLE.  Like it was something I did or said!)

red-flag He was acting suicidal a week into our marriage

red-flag He was homeless when we met

red-flag He expected people to "sponsor" him and give him money for talking about his past drug abuse history

red-flag He was jobless when we met

red-flag I made some money available to him to start a small home based business, but the money all disappeared with nothing to show for it

red-flag He claimed to have an unpaid drug debt from years ago that he needed to pay (this was 2 months into our marriage) and that the people would come after him if he did not pay it, so I gave him the money for that

red-flag He sat around at the house all day, texting and phoning me, watching tv, and saying that he was bored

red-flag He kept on talking about needing to get a job and help earn an income, but he did not actively pursue this

red-flag He later kept on repeating to me that his psychiatrist and psychologist both said that he was not mentally fit to work, so he could not get a job

red-flag He kept on saying that he was busy writing his autobiography, but he hardly wrote a thing over the course of a year

red-flag He would disappear in my car for hours on end, sending me an occasional text to say he's ok, but if I was just a minute late home from work, he would stress about it.  I was also never allowed to go anywhere on my own for any length of time.

red-flag He said he did not need any friends, I was the only friend he needed

red-flag He said he did not need a therapist, as I could be his therapist and talk to him and listen to him

red-flag He often commented about the things I have done in my life, like go on holiday to an interesting place, or to go on a ship, and he would say that he feels that now is his time and that he also deserves to experience such fun activities (whilst being unemployed and showing no inclination towards finding employment!)

red-flag He would book himself into the psychiatric hospital for a week on my medical insurance and treat it like a holiday, and then complain about how pathetic the hospital is

red-flag I was never allowed to challenge anything; have a different opinion to his; confront him on anything; try to clarify anything with him; deny him anything he felt he needed to have

red-flag He complained about a lot of things and showed this air of entitlement.  He seemed unable to express or feel gratitude:  he complained about my car, my house, my suburb, my city, my family, my job, me.  And then in the same breath he claimed to be so deeply in love with me and love everything about me... .

Etc Etc.

And very importantly, I am beginning to understand why I ignored all these red flags:

I was desperately looking for love and validation and I was connecting out of a feeling of deep woundedness to him.  Call it a trauma bond.  I have a lot of repressed childhood pain from a dysfunctional FOO, that I had up to now not ever addressed or even properly recognised.

I wanted so desperately to be "heard" by this man, who acted as though he was so emotionally available to me, but was not at all capable of being emotionally intimate with me. 

I was acting out the role of Rescuer, as I have a problem with Codependency stemming from my FOO and the position I learned to take on the ":)rama Triangle".  I have never been able to conduct healthy love relationships.

I have been emotionally dishonest with myself and with my previous romantic partners, and with my soon to be ex BPDh.

I have not ever really had a good relationship with my parents, my mother is still alive but remarried to a man who I strongly suspect has NPD, and our previous "stepfather" I think was also a NPD.  My late father was always absent in our lives (parental alienation) and he was a very emotionally repressed, sarcastic,  and disapproving type of man.  There was little warmth and emotional nurturing coming from our parents.  My siblings and I were emotionally neglected most of our childhood.

I have abandonment versus engulfment issues, so I have my own ambivalence that creates a push-pull when it comes to close romantic relationships.

I think all of this made me ignore the red flags. I have just not been able to live authentically in my love relationships, due to all of my unresolved childhood issues.

1. "I've had anger management training".

She paused to see what my reaction would be. I had no idea what this training was all about and had never heard of it before. I was puzzled as to why this poor, abused waif would need such training. Now I know.

2. "I love you"

Three weeks into the relationship.

3. "I've been used and abused by so many men. And you'll do the same"

Really? Why would I do that when she is so nice and sweet. She just wants to love and be loved.

4. "Sorry if I hurt your feelings".

It took two days of me insisting that she owed me an apology for telling me she couldn't talk to me on the 'phone while staying at her mother's home over the holidays. She rang me and said she was tired, had to go to bed, couldn't talk but her phone bill showed she immediately rang the previous guy and spoke with him for 45 minutes. I just spent two days telling here how she hurt my feelings and the best I got was "sorry if I hurt your feelings". If? Pfft

5. "My Friend Doesn't Like You"

She showed me an email from her friend who I had just met. The friend said, "if he doesn't like me don't ever bring him to my house again. I will only see him again with my husband present and the seating arrangement at the table will be as follows... . ". I asked her what the meaning of this and she said, "I told her you don't like her". When I asked why she would do such a thing, she said "I don't know". I said, "well you did the damage, you fix it". She never did.

What happened was that the friend said something nice about me so she needed to ruin it so the smear campaign actually started in Week 2 of the relationship. In the second last week of the relationship, we were doing some work at her place of work. I introduced her to my sub-contractor and she basically said, "My husband is a d!ckhead".

I called her out and she said "I was merely protecting my turf". I said, "No you weren't. If that is the case you would have said, 'Listen here guys, don't trash the building while you're drilling holes and dragging that big ladder around', but what you said were words to the effect of "my husband is a d!ckhead". She raged and screamed, "Everybody loves and respects you and I'm sick of it". I asked why that doesn't make her proud because if everyone loved and respected her I would be proud of her. There was no answer.

Now I look for red flags and I enjoy spotting them.

If there is one recipe for detachment, that's it - your statement I put in bold! So, take your own medicine :-)

I have a really good instinct (or EQ) and I completely disregarded it. Why? Because I have self-esteem issues, and always work hard to make things work. I felt a connection, and was there ready to take the punches. When you are a one-way emotional boxer, you become a numb punching bag, so i can take a lot coming. Why? Because I am waiting for that bell at the end of the match where I get to hug my partner. I am always bloody at the end, but on my feet ready for her hug. Nevermind that, during the rounds, I see this merciless, cold, emotionally punching partner give me heavy blows, and my gut says "get away from this soul-devouring" I disregarded it because I wanted to make it work. Because I wanted to start a family. Because I think that part of my life is a failure... .

We all have our issues that lead us into this. It doesn't minimize what our exes did. But we too need to love and trust ourselves more! Throw in that towel, and go to a different game where emotional punching is not part of the game.

I think the major RED Flag I missed was at our wedding rehearsal party. She had a big fight with me and one of her bridesmaids when the bridesmaid showed what she thought was too much attention to me (she sat on my lap and gave me a hug). I really didn't know her friends very well and I think that's all it was there was nothing and i mean nothing going on. She flipped out and it actually almost got physical between her and one of her best friends and it was one of my first hell nights for the next 24 years.

When I look back now, I can see the red flags but I didn't know they were red flags because I had NEVER met a person like him before - not my x-husband, boyfriends when I was younger, family members, no one ever.  When I think about the signs I missed, I want to kick myself, but I also had no idea that people acted this way.  I think about the comments he made about me, things he said about his x-wife, etc. and I just brushed them off because I told myself ... . who thinks that way, why would anyone say that?  If I knew then, what I know now ... .

Great thread.  I heard this verbatim on several occasions.  When my exBPDgf was dysregulated, she would be incredibly sullen and stand-offish with me. Then, I would see her at work laughing and joking with colleagues, and I just couldn't get it.  This is always the explanation I would get. Of course a couple of weeks later I would be pulled right back in. 

Some others, in no particular order:

-Our first serious conversation was about how troubled she was as a teenager (maybe ten years before the r/s/ began), how badly she was in to drugs, needed legal help to deal with the ramifications of fights, car-keyings, etc.

-She told me her ex-husband said (during marriage counselling) that he felt like she "always had one foot out the door."

-During same counselling, when the counsellor told her that she treated her husband like a child and needed to back off that, she decided he was "a quack" and stopped going.

-At the beginning of our r/s, someone was sending her (and, on one occasion, me) anonymous emails of a sort of threatening nature.  She had a theory about who this was, a person who she had "texted with" and who told her he "loved her."  I just assumed she had innocently gotten involved with a crazy person, not realizing she had probably manipulated this person badly and then discarded him.

-She started texting me half-naked pictures of herself less than a week after we started flirting with each other.  This had never happened to me before, so I normalized it, and anyway I found it exciting.

-She mentioned frequently spying on exes while in relationships with them and told me she would do the same to me. 

-There were a whole lot of statements of the sort: "I never knew someone like you existed," "you're the sexiest man I've ever been with," "no one has ever understood me like you," "I love you more than I knew it was possible to love another human being," etc. 

-When dysregulated, she would tell me that she was a "horrible person," that she had done "horrible things," but then would refuse to elaborate.  If I objected to how she was treating me, she would say "Well just give up on me then."  Occasionally during such fights I would get a "maybe I don't love you," usually quickly rescinded. 

-During arguments her face would go completely blank and emotionless. 

-She explained to me how she frequently changed hair color, leased new cars, etc because "I get bored with everything really quickly."  She implied this was true of people as well.

-She would make plans with friends, cancel on them at the last minute, and then vilify them for "not understanding" when they were upset.  Same with me. 

There are probably so many more. For me, it was a typical combination of a) enacting rescuer fantasies and b) wanting to be mirrored, wanting to have my narcissism fed, wanting to believe all of the wonderful things she was saying about me.  Obviously, this goes back to my own FOO issues, self-worth, etc. She was aware of the dysregulation but blamed it entirely on the pre-menstrual period; I desperately wanted to believe this, to believe there was something predictable and out of her control about it, and somehow I convinced myself that this excused her treatment of me. I was angry at myself for not noticing these red flags (and undoubtedly many others) at first, but now I'm honestly just pleased that I can recognize them.  And, more importantly, I can recognize that I am ATTRACTED to them, meaning that, while I'm working on healing myself, I have to be extra-cautious. 

Lots of red flags, unfortunately I didn't know enough to recognise them...

Asked if I thought she was crazy a lot at first... . I should have taken this more seriously!

Told me she's highly strung and and deeply emotional. And would get very emotional, particularly if drinking could snap out of nowhere into an aggressive argument. And I mean like storm off in the middle of a restaurant... happened a few times. I stupidly tried to work out what I'd done wrong. Always drinks heavily if she's upset. Have also discovered a heavy regular user of OTC opiate pain killers

Had a history of bad relationships.

Got drunk and admitted cheating on previous partners...

Interesting sex was amazing at first, but we had an incident not to far in I'll never forget... . got drunk and we'd gone to sleep. Woke me up demanding sex... . I'm still still half asleep and waking up... . went off at me for not being a real man who would have sex with her and 'and your not big enough to please me anyway'... . and then here's the good bit... grabbed a vibrator out of a drawer, stormed out to the toilets and got herself off! All while I'm in stunned disbelief. Apologised, but seriously, that should have been more than just a red flag.

Obsessed with pets and would often deliberately give them attention and ignore me, strained family relations. B___ed about me to a friend to the point the friend who didn't know me said I was no good and to leave me... . prompted the first of many mini breakups... .

Regular issues with workmates, always had somebody who was out to get her and had drama's and emergencies about it.

The one that I think should have been a flag of things just being unhealthy was the regular 'walking on eggshells effect' when she wasn't in a good mood.

Very insightful on the "why's"  |iiii

We have known each other since we were 12... Haven't seen each other in over 30 years.

while reminiscing on facebook I mention his girlfriend from back then...

I get a long agitated  message about how she cheated on him and he got his behind tore up for going to the skating rink with flowers on his bike and catching them at the all night skate.

He even remembered what the blanket looked like.

I sat there with my head slightly cocked reading the message for the third time thinking is it me or does it seem as if this happened last week not 32 years ago?

Very strange I didn't even respond ... next morning had a normal friendly message waiting.

One more: midway through our r/s, she noted that men had "a hard time keeping me happy" and speculated that I might have a problem with the same. Obviously, someone suggesting that it was their partner's responsibility to "make them happy," that their happiness is not their own responsibility, is a huge red flag.  The fact that I didn't see it that way, that I decided to "accept the challenge," is a testament to my own people-pleasing nature and my own narcissism.  Those guys couldn't make you happy because they're not as amazing as me! If I've learned one thing from this whole process, it's that happiness is truly internal, and that you have to find that happiness within before your relationships can succeed.  And further: healthy relationships are those between complete people, not between people who "complete each other."

 red-flag Oooh another one... .

He would ask so many questions about why I was divorced our problems ,arguments... finally I asked why he was so interested... he said because he didn't want to make the same mistakes my ex did... . Not only did he do all those things it  was worse .also what took my ex husband 18 years to do only took my exbf 6 months!

He wanted to write down all the things we had in common,,not so much a red flag but weird because now I can't even remember those  common things.

All his exes were meth users ... 2 in prison... I have never did a drug in my life or even got a speeding ticket... he didn't do that drug nor had he been arrested so I just thought poor fellow seems to be having a hard time with his choice of girlfriends.,uh yea

Thank you all for joining in and sharing your stories!   Everyone is doing AMAZING work here! It's thrilled my heart to read all of your posts and see how far we have all come with ourselves.  |iiii

Isn't it amazing what we see when we look back? And it really helps us understand more of where we were emotionally and mentally during that time. I know it was hard for me to get over being appalled at myself for ignoring these things, and push on through to looking at what it was saying about me. Self-forgiveness is a big part of self-examination.

I've also found that it's incredibly helpful to write these things out. See them in black and white. Keep them for future reference.  


My exbf did this, too! Any slight (or perceived slight) was remembered in vivid detail and still seemed to have just as strong of an impact in remembering as it did when it happened. This isn't something I've really thought about until I read your post.


This also isn't something I'd given a lot of thought to before coming to these boards, reading others' stories, and reflecting more on my own.

My exbf had had a vasectomy long before we met, but began to talk about eventually trying to have a child with me. That I was the only person he'd been with who made him really want to have a child. (Whether or not that particular part is true, I neither know nor care.  lol) It seemed like a reasonable thing at the time -- to think about maybe one day having a child with someone you love. Right?

But I have a male friend who's dBPD, and he is also obsessed with the idea of having a child. Someone to "preserve his legacy." No woman he's ever dated has really been anything but a potential womb for his legacy.

I read others' stories and see similar desires/thoughts expressed by pwBPD or BPD traits. The more I think of it, the more it makes sense in the context of the disorder. Perhaps they're looking for a way to feel whole. Perhaps they think they can bond emotionally with a human being they've created from themselves.

And so a few things that might not be outright red flags on the surface turn out to be red flags when the intent is examined.

there were more red flags up front for me than a Soviet May Day parade  :)  red-flag    red-flag

1. she was dating a guy and told me on two occasions (as my friend) that she was only with him because she couldn't be with me

2. been married twice. One ended in an absolute ___storm ( his fault of course). The other lasted 6 weeks

3. A serious suicide attempt last year. She was legally sectioned.

4. she regularly thought of ending her life

5. she was "extremely" promiscuous when she was younger

6. she has only fantasised sexually about me ( yeah right! a 40 yer old woman)  :)

7. God answered her prayers bringing me back into her life.

8. She has been diagnosed with BPD but does not believe them

9. she has been clean and sober for 9 years, attending 12 step groups,  but takes the occasional drink because "alcohol is not an issue for her"... okaaay

10. She has attended SLAA 12 step groups for years but does not have issues with this anymore. She is now ready for love.

11. admitting to masturbating for "days at time"

12. she ended all of her relationships. This was because all the guys were "dishonest"

This was before I even got into a relationship with her  :)

Up front, I told her that I did not want to know any more about her previous relationships or sexual behaviour. I guess that was my way of avoiding and protecting myself from the real truth and living in some kind of fantasy land of true love and soul mates.

Damn! I have to laugh at myself, I must have been in some kind of blackout to ignore this sea of red flags... I shake my head.

I'm sorry but this made me laugh :) ... sometimes we just have to or we would truly lose it.

 :) Banshee, that's true

I mean, If I had told my friends about these  red-flag's they would have told me to run for the hills and hide for a long time.

I have to look at myself and what inspired me to take a risk on something where the odds on absolute disaster were so high.

It wasn't as if she painted a rosy picture, she laid it all down up front and I still thought she'd be the woman of my dreams.  :)

My ex was very sexually promiscuous, but I didn't think about that too much because I've been with promiscuous men who were just dandy mentally and emotionally.

I guess I should have paid more attention to his reason for having sex. He asked me mine once, early on, and I couldn't come up with just one reason (it's fun, it's a human need, it's an important way to bond, it's a big F-you to death, it's a way to express oneself, and also it's fun). His only reason? "To feel close to someone."  red-flag




I am with you completely on this.

I should have given him the benefit of the doubt and really listened to what he was trying to tell me. I shouldn't have thought that these were issues that could be alleviated with just unconditional love and acceptance. I had more than my fair share of arrogance there, thinking I could give him a safe place to be himself, and support him and understand him, to a point where we would be able to have a functional, mutually beneficial r/s. That was certainly something I had to get over about myself.


This made me laugh out loud.  :)


I hear you! I was laughing at myself while typing out my own list.


That is absolute truth!  :)

I'm just going to say or ask because I feel very comfortable with HappyNihilist... But all I hear is how sexually amazing BPD's are ... If I had the nerve  ... . which I don't, to post this  question... but I'll ask it here...

TMI TMI TMI

What the heck is so amazing? I mean really? Besides being well endowed and the nasty talk I don't see the amazement of it with my ex... he was very skinny and yes this may be mean to say but he  looked like a mosquito holding a baseball bat... he could never finish (heard from several that backed that claim up)

It took my many months to tell my best friend when she asked how was it... all i could say was it was broke... she still laughs at that.  

I'm not sure what the BPD women are doing to get this title either... did It have a BPD cape on it that shot out confetti and yodeled? inspiring minds would like to know is all I'm saying...


Now I feel guilty ... that was ugly... I may just be banned for life... I'm sorry

:) lol

Aww, thank you! I'm glad you are.  


The mosquito holding a baseball bat has painted the most vivid picture in my head.  :) You should really write more, if you don't already do that in some form in your life.

My exbf could hardly ever finish, either. I told him once (only half-joking) that it was a control issue. But really, inability to orgasm (if not caused by medicine or health issues) is almost always psychological in nature. Control, fear of relaxing and letting go, maybe even some self-loathing about experiencing pleasure.


lol

Fellas (and ladies), did it shoot confetti and yodel?  


Well, you made me laugh really hard with your fantastic descriptions, so no apologies needed to me.  

Really, don't feel bad at all! We're all adults here. And this is a very common issue with BPD r/s's. You should search the Leaving boards for "sex" and just see how many threads pop up, trying to figure out the same thing. However, it's interesting to note that, in many long-term r/s's with pwBPD, the sex eventually waned, disappeared, and/or became a tool for manipulation.

Sometimes it's our own wish-fulfillment and fantasies that make them appear such great lovers. But I do think that certain BPD traits can lead to a very sexually exciting person -- albeit one who can't sustain that level with one person over a long period. Their deep need for approval/validation can manifest as a desire to give and please. They're very emotionally intense, which can make for smoking-hot sex. They're often promiscuous, so they have experience and knowledge.

This is an important question. Don't feel one bit guilty.  :) For me personally, the sexual aspect was a big part of why I continued my r/s with my exbf, and my sexuality became very tied up in him. It was vital for me to work through that aspect to aid my own healing.

You're in a slightly different situation, because you weren't as blown away by your ex's "prowess." :) And it says a lot that you're in a place where you can talk about that aspect of your r/s with such clarity.

Thank you for sharing!  

Well I'm glad it made you laugh... lol. I just keep reading about it but there's no examples of the awesome time.

My ex finished several times but it took a 12 step program to get it there... It was exhausting... he said that he hated that he couldn't but satisfying me was enough for him... said he had women leave him bc of it too.

I didn't mean to thread jump your post... But when you think about it this could be also a red flag since both of our exes  had this problem.

Well I guess this is what it's all about talking and healing... I'm glad to be here and think the world of the new people I have met so soon

Wow! For me that's the biggest  red-flag on this thread.

Anyway, I think my uBPD friend like to hurt men when she was in a bad mood. Her father abandoned when she was young.

bruised

I thought the same thing too... I don't think my ex like women in general... he would always tell the story of a guy he knew that was married and his wife burned the biscuits ... he walked over and slapped her to the floor... that story always creeped me out ... he told it like 4 different times in the few months were together ... . for reasons I don't know... he never expressed that he thought it was right or wrong and the story would come from nowhere , we wouldn't even be on a topic related to anything like that... it really was a uh huh moment for me.

I know, right? Who says that? And I think this was on our first date (I know it was no later than the second one).

He went on and on about the strong women he'd had in his life (family), and how much he admired them. And then he wraps it up with that. Honestly, overall, he had some seriously twisted views on women, mixed with what I feel was some element of genuine respect, and perhaps more than a little intimidation. Basically -- that one statement of his sums it all up. And I should have listened.

 


Did you say anything when he said that? Oh my! Not sure If I would know how honestly.

I honestly can't remember how I responded. I think I just looked at him, dumbfounded, and he moved on to something else. I do remember how I felt -- part of me thought it was just a joke, part of me thought he was just being hard on himself, part of me saw it as a challenge. This goes back to my issue of arrogance that I had to work on.

There's a joke e-card that I love: I view each and every one of your glaring red flags as a personal challenge.  


This is a great point, Jb! And it really brings it back around to listening to our own feelings about the person and r/s. It's NOT healthy to feel like you have to "walk on eggshells" with your partner.

So some of these red flags aren't just things the pwBPD says or does -- they also include how we feel about what we're doing in the r/s.

Yeah, my ex was obsessed with having a baby. I am so glad we didn't have a child together. This was creepy too. I would hate to think that she married me to get a child out of the deal. It's all so sick. She collected people (friends) and possessions. I think looking back now at it I understand what was happening. The more friends and things she had not only made her feel happier she was also in a safe / comfort zone. You know - like if you lose one thing but still have 10 other things the one thing doesn't matter, not that big of a deal losing it. In a very similar way I was classified as Mr. Doesn't Matter and tossed.

My ex got sick and grumpy VERY grumpy and went off by text ... . told me I WOULD be replaced... I thought that was strange to say replaced... I would have said I will find SOMEONE else... but he chose replaced like what you would do to a broken vase... you replace it... a different way of seeing things through their eyes for sure.

Let's see... . during the first few months:

- The first night we met, she got drunk, started crying for unknown reasons, told me she loved me, stripped naked, and tried to have sex with me

- Was married 5 times

- Last ex husband was abusive, so she shot at him 3 times (missed, claims missing was intentional) and was indicted for attempted murder, among other charges

- BPD/NPD mother, father was MIA.  Both parents abusive

- Sister & father both committed suicide.  She had attempted it twice.

- 3 kids, all with serious drug/alcohol/behavioral issues in their teens/twenties

- Basically moved herself into my place, then got very angry when I balked after realizing it

- Exhibited symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia

- Unemployed and living off of modest divorce settlement, but spent money like water

- Changed career/education aspirations frequently

- Instigated conflict with my family, including my 8 year old nephew

- Instigated conflict with strangers at school, and with regular patrons at a bar/restaurant she would frequent

- Automatically assumed I was having sex with my sister in law because I would go babysit my nieces and nephews once a every week or two.  And because of "the way" my sister in law looked at me.

- Regular smoker, modest drinker, and pot afficionado... . all because they helped "calm" her

- During a dysregulation episode, our T said she was acting manic and delusional, recommended antidepressants... . T was then immediately painted black and discredited permanently

- Wanted us to buy a house together after being together for three months

- Moved her stuff out two or three times for nonsensical (to me) reasons

- Said she had to "go behind my back" to do something for me after I specifically asked her not to

- Repeatedly introduced me to people by my former military rank after I asked her not to multiple times

- Used her cigarettes to burn holes in the paintings of a man we rented from, because "he made her cry"; also broke a window, called the police, and claimed she didn't know who did it; would turn the thermostat up into the 80s just to F with him

- Raged at me because I asked her to delay a family party after my brother started chemo for cancer and he might not be able to make it.  So she made the invitations anyways and later had to throw them away.  As punishment, she picked a fight, ignored me, and later went out by herself... . on my birthday.

After re-reading this list, I can't believe it didn't work out between us!  lol

Agree with all of it, and yep... you read your list and think how on earth did I let that keep going and not realise?

I will add... . I did bring this concept up in our last conversation. I told him he did break me. He said, "It was and still is the hardest thing I've ever done." I'm taking that as a compliment.   And as a reminder of how completely f#cked-up the whole thing was. (Including my willing participation in it.)

wow... how hard could it be to say i'm sorry I never wanted to break you... I use to ask my ex i  wonder what you would be like if you had a normal childhood... he would just :) I think they feel above most people at times... He would say stuff like he was smart and very wise... could read people within minutes and know what they were about.

Too bad he wasn't wise enough to  know himself or  smart enough to realize what he does to people. I hate this illness... yuk  

Once again... . this is it EXACTLY. My exbf often seemed to have mistaken himself for a sage of the world. I teased him once that he was often "sitting up on his throne, tossing down judgment." A lot of times, he treated me like (or outright said that) I was naive and unwise, like I would never understand the world as it really was.

They can read people extremely well. The problem is, they view everything from their own distorted lens. They assign malicious or negative intent where there is none.


This makes me think of another  red-flag. I asked him a couple of times what he thought he could have done better in past r/s's. Not that bluntly  lol, but basically I was trying to see what he had learned from failed r/s's about himself, and I was sharing my own lessons learned. He could not even comprehend the question. He did nothing wrong! Why would I even dare ask?

Mine would say he knew he was bad to his exwife he said he would get mad and call her names... never touched her though... but he told me several times of a story where he got mad and threw a chair... and the LOOK on her face... he said it like he was proud.Never heard him say he did anything wrong to any of the girls he dated after he was divorced but had plenty bad to say about them.

Another thing that creeped me out was him using the word evil and demons... I was being evil or I was evil... he said many times " you don't want the demons to come out" "you've never seen the demons" meaning him going off I guess.

I saw many of the warning signs. But I had faith in who she was and thought I could heal her. Some of them.

-Complaining that the nice things I do for her are not good enough

-Telling me how I should feel

-Getting really mean over me gushing about how beautiful she is

-Telling me all her relationships turn out bad when we first started to fight

-Honestly, she even told me she had Borderline Personality Disorder... . but I shrugged that off too and then forgot for 10 years, lol

-She was put in a mental hospital for a couple of weeks for trashing her place and letting rabbits run loose in her apartment and got evicted

Now, my exbf did admit that was a difficult person to live with,  red-flag and that he did bad things to exes.  red-flag But he viewed these behaviors as reactions to them "not being able to handle him."  red-flag


Oh yes. "Never hit her!"  red-flag "I'm no wife-beater."  red-flag Et cetera. People who are actually not abusive don't feel the need to constantly reassure others and themselves that they are not abusive.


Another  red-flag mine shares. Lots of talk about evil and demons. Also darkness and emptiness. And an all-pervading sense of badness. When someone's main way of identifying themselves is "bad"? That's a big red-flag


This may have been what bothered me the most. It's such a basic violation of an individual human right -- to feel our own feelings -- and also a betrayal of the right be able to express those feelings in a r/s.

That's a really interesting way of looking at it. It makes a lot of sense to me, especially given the objectification that goes on in BPD r/s.

My exbf also collected possessions. He wasn't really materialistic -- he didn't do this to show off or prove anything to anyone else -- but rather, as you said, having a lot of "things" gave him some sense of happiness and comfort.


:) lol I feel the same way -- this exercise is very enlightening for me!

Hi HappyN, it's disturbing how many things I've forgotten and repressed about my r/s when I read posts like this.  So many  red-flag's, SO much dysregulated behavior!  I firmly believe that during idealization/trauma bonding there is a mechanism that allows us to dissociate from what we know are troublesome, toxic or unhealthy behaviors in lieu of fostering and preserving the ':)r. Feel Good' of the fantasy bond.  In my case I also believed by being non-judmental about the behaviors I was being an 'impartial listener' when in fact I was psychoanalyzing her as the r/s was already taking on a therapist-patient dynamic.  "So tell me, Sweetie, why did you insert the garden vegetable into your vajajay?"

Since we are evaluating and detaching I have a question for you.  Many in these r/s's have expressed their addictive/explosive sexual lives with their pwBPD's and in the postmortems recognize some aspects of this sexuality to be  red-flag's.  Knowing the specificity of your own sexual desires, limits and boundaries, HappyN, how do you assimilate them into the context of future relationships?  For example would you be as willing to enter a relationship with someone you knew to be as openly promiscuous as your ex or would you still place as high a value on the sexual component of a relationship versus other aspects of building and forging a healthy bond?

:) :) lol

Reading this sent a chill down my spine.  This is literally the only way my BPDexgf would refer to sex when she wanted it.  She would say "I need to feel close to you," "I want that closeness," etc.  Always.  I had never actually heard anyone use that phrasing before, so I thought it was romantic.  Only in retorspect do I realize what a hug red flag it was.  The idea being, I suppose, that sex is the only way to attach with someone in a secure-feeling way (even though it is transient), the only way to supply the emptiness inside, the only way to feel complete.  I don't think my ex could really go more than a week without sex, and I don't mean that she'd be horny at the end of the week.  I mean she would literally do anything to get the "closeness" back.

I'm stunned now that I convinced myself this was the sign of a healthy libido.  That it was romantic.  It seems comical. 

By the way, I think this is the reason it is so "amazing."  We are attracted to our BPD partners physically and we think that's what makes the sex so hot, but what really does it is this pathological drive to feel "close" that they have.  It ups the intensity dramatically, at least early in the relationship, when they are interested in bonding with us.  By the time they are done with us, we've become so addicted to the intensity that we'll do anything (including sacrifice our integrity) to get it back, and we probably remember it as much more amazing than it actually was as a consequence. 

I feel pretty confident that this is the case.  I thankfully never got to this point with my BPDx, but she was most certainly obsessed with having a baby.  I knew her when she was with her ex, and when things started to go wrong between them, they started trying to have a baby.  She was very direct about the fact that she thought the baby would repair the family, and didn't understand at all when I suggested this might not be the healthiest motivation for having a child ( red-flag!).  She was doing fertility treatments, found out her now ex was having an affair, went ahead with an artificial insemination 3 days later, it didn't take, and they were separated in a month.

This stuff actually happened and didn't make me run screaming.  It really does make me laugh now!

Anyway, yes, I think that very much having a child for pwBPD is a desperate attempt to complete themselves, to form a bond that they think can maybe really truly be secure.  Of course, those of us who have read enough (including on here) know that this is a temporary fix: tumultuous relationships with children frequently ensue, divorces still happen, and as we've all probably noticed, borderline parents frequently beget borderline children. I imagine this is because, as children, they can't rely on their dysregulated, splitting, demanding mothers/fathers to meet their own needs, and the cycle begins. 

This is so familiar. She is a super attractive woman and I was extremely attracted to her in the beginning. I noticed an intensity around sex from the first night that unnerved me. There was so much emphasis on it. It got to the point that it was so fraught that I would struggle to get aroused. She would go into hysterics and rage. There was so much pressure around sex that I began to withdraw and couldn't "complete". That would lead to more strife. In fact, this was the catalyst that lead to the chaos that eventually broke our relationship. She just could not live with the fact that I was not "hooked" on her. I believe sex has been her currency, her greatest asset all her life and me not drooling over her triggered massive insecurities and eventually insanely disordered behaviour. She blamed me of course... . labelled me sexually damaged and dysfunctional, gay  :), not man enough... . and that's the mild insults... .

I tried to tell her to cool off a bit and let things flow. She then accused me of being in denial about my dysfunction. Sex was an escape for her and I just couldn't turn on, especially after being emotionally thrashed. She too would say she had a healthy libido but I wasn't convinced. For me it was more like a compulsion, even an addiction... .

I've had enough partners in my life to recognise a weird vibe around sex.

BacknthSaddle, I always keep in mind that as similar as many of our stories are, no two pwBPD's are alike as is the case with us 'nons'.  My ex was very sexual and we had intense, passionate sex but it wasn't the main draw for me.  Some of her early expressed sexual behaviors were  red-flag's to my own sense of sexuality but I wrote them off as just her preferences to mine without moral judgment.  I'm sure my sexual behaviors were in some ways  red-flag's to her as well.

Author Rachel Reiland, one of the few well known pwBPD to be considered fully recovered, writes about her sexual acting out and its roots in longing in her book "Get Me Out Of Here: My Recovery From BPD".  It's very insightful reading if you're interested. 

She writes:

"The truth was that longing wasn't sexual. I wanted to be the entire focus of any person I was obsessed with.  My incessant hunger for attention had been a part of my life for as long as I could remember.  The burning heartache of emptiness obsessed me even when my peers had been taken with Barbie dolls and coloring books.  I knew even then that these constant feelings were not normal.  I had been deeply ashamed of them, not daring to breathe them to another soul, particularly to the objects of my longing.

As the years passed, my longings had taken on a sexual component.  Perhaps in the seventies era of free love and the Cosmopolitan woman, they'd been easier to accept.  On a far deeper level, I thought my desire to be the center of attention, usually from an older man, was worse than sexual promiscuity.

When the object of my longing -- the teacher, the coach, the boss -- was present in a room, I geared everything to that person.  I contrived every word, action, inflection, and facial expression for him.  Does he see me laughing? Does he see how funny everybody thinks I am?"

Did it seem that I was making a moral judgment? I wasn't. Rather, I was just sharing thoughts on why I thought sex with pwBPDs so often gets described as particularly intense in response to a question by another poster. I agree with you that no two people of any kind are exactly alike, but certainly patterns are instructive. And certainly what Ms. Reilanf writes will ring true to many of us who have had sexual relationships with BPD partners.

Backnth, the moral judgment was in reference to my own r/s .

This was so me!

This exercise is amusing, enlightening, and disturbing for me (and I'm loving it, because I need to go there  lol). I can't believe how much I'd repressed, ignored, rationalized, and forgotten.


This is great question!  :) Sexuality is very important to me. I've been in a good r/s with incompatible sex -- and in sexually (and emotionally) neglectful r/s's -- so I know I will never sacrifice that part of myself again for a r/s because it makes me miserable.

His promiscuity never bothered me. His inability to be monogamous was not an issue whatsoever. (His not respecting my boundaries and reasonable requests was an issue. I was ashamed of what a sneaky, low b@stard he could be, when I realized it. I mean... . I really don't ask for much, people.  lol) So no, I would by no means rule someone out because of promiscuity. I would, however, ask a few more questions and say a few more things than I did with my exbf.   I see one of the benefits of this r/s as helping me see more of how to navigate this territory.

I do firmly believe now that I don't have to sacrifice any part of myself to be in a loving, mutually beneficial r/s. I just have to be patient and careful. So that's a good place to be, I think. :)


I agree with that interpretation. And my exbf often talked about his emptiness.

Like you, I thought it was sort of romantic and touching at the time. A lot of things he said were like that -- after looking back (even while still in the r/s, and especially now), I see almost too many to list. I suppose I thought I had found a modern-day Lord Byron. (Actually, Lord Byron probably had BPD. So... . life lesson: don't date men who remind you of Lord Byron.)


:light: This makes a lot of sense. I never made that connection before (thank you!) but it certainly seems like one of the big reasons why it was so amazing, in my case at least. And yes, I was addicted to that intensity. 

On our second date he told me, "It always ends well with me.  I always part as friends.  If were to run into any of my xGF's right now I'd give them a big hug and a kiss."  At the time I thought okay, he's a 48 year old guy who has never been married and he's warning me not to get too attached?  But at the same time he's telling me he just wants to find someone to love?  And that was just the first of hundreds.

Oh yeah, that's a big one.

My exbf didn't have that particular red flag. Quite the opposite, actually. One of his stories had a girl coming at him with a knife because he wouldn't have sex with her.  red-flag  That was, sadly, not the only story of an ex coming at him with a knife.  red-flag  

Here's another of mine that always bothered me throughout the r/s. Early on, when I was pulling away (getting scared), he sort of lost it one night (not angry, very scared and also drunk so more honest perhaps). I could tell by the way he was talking that his mind was clicking through all these ideas. At one point he said, "I would buy you things, but you don't care about that... . "  red-flag Much, much later (like, towards the end), he made an offhand reference to how much his most recent exwife "loved things." His words.

Writing these down is very helpful.

A few more subtle ones.  I think it's the subtle ones that are the most instructive:

-After we fought, my ex would frequently apologize for being "so confusing" or "so inconsistent," even if this was really not relevant to the fight.  In retrospect I realize this is her way of viewing her push-pull behaviors.

-Frequently making plans (with me and others) and then cancelling at the last minute, then getting angry with the other party if they "didn't understand."

-Told me on several occasions "Please don't ever leave me."  I suppose maybe there is a healthy way to say this in a relationship, but now I see it as an expression of a pretty fragile attachment.  At one point she said "Please don't ever leave me no matter how bad I am to you or how much I say I don't need you."  This strikes me now as very similar to "I hate you, don't leave me." Something like "I'm going to hate you, but don't leave me then."

My problem with red flags is that I am red/green color blind (really I am).

Try mixing that with a SO with very active BPD!

Oh yeah, and my kids look at me kinda funny when I pick out their school clothes that I think look nice together. ":)aaa-aaad!," especially from my D7.

lol

That made me think of another  red-flag... When I first met my ex for the first time ... he seen my car and said WOW your car is BLUE that's my favorite color! I have got to write down all this stuff they we have in common!

We haven't seen each other since we were 12  (we were 44 when we met)and  tells me his mom said that our story was like a fairytale... she has several mental problems herself so go figure.