BPDFamily.com

Curious if BPD is actually part of the attraction in romantic partners to start with or does it come later? After getting to know them better?

Obviously it's impossible to separate up exactly the difference between chemistry, natural attraction and the BPD qualities of addictiveness but I'm wondering? Was it different for you? As in different than other 'normal' r'ships?

Did your BPD ex become "The One That Got Away"?

I was with a guy who had a good deal of NPD/BPD characteristics but not super attracted to him till he started the push/pull mechanism. Looking back I cringe from the awful way he treated me and my deep desire to have him like me. I reel at the shocking bad way he spoke of me and to me, then wheedle and turn and wham - suddenly I was back.

I would consider my BPD ex more like "The  That Got Away"


             

Mine is very pretty, so call me shallow, I don't know... my very first visual impression of her across a room was, "she looks interesting, but where she's sitting, and how she's looking, she doesn't trust people."

She denied it later when I told her. I was correct, she told me, "I just like to get a feel.for a room and people." Me, too, but i was siting with everybody to connect. However,  the Rescuer in me was activated. I later approached her to engage, and the rest is history.

Mine was a knockout, and so my type it is not even funny.  However, I never even knew what BPD was until she seemed to change her feelings about me overnight.  All I thought was that she was so charming, sweet, and seemed like a good person.  I was so drawn to her looks, fun personality, and how incredibly "into me" she was.  Her thing was pulling disappearing acts, and cutting me off at the times when we seemed to be the closest.  She never raged or threw things.  She just constantly left me in the dark and  her fears of abandonment and engulfment were all present.

I think for me there was the aura that connected me first. I definitely wasn't attracted to him initially physically but within a couple of hours of him talking/ being around me, I was pulled to him. It was quite overwhelming. I had an " epiphany" and told him " I'm going to learn so much from you", this was like a lightening bolt moment, I can still recall the clarity of that message. All within a couple of hours! Maybe that was a warning from up above? When I recall it now it sounds ridiculous to think that about a person, but it just hit me and I said it out loud.

Nevertheless, it came true. I've never learned so much from anyone else in my life. I was really drawn to him . Felt like he touched my soul. The physical attraction started a few days later after we became intimate. And then I attached.

Possibly.  I know there was much pain in his eyes... . and then his words.  He snared me in with tales of his youth and the war and... . I was just drawn to that immediately of course.  I wanted to save him from his own pain.  So much pain.

I can't say whether or not it was his aura, but that push/pull worked wonders on me.  I was done for after the first few times we hung out.  Of course there were red flags, but I was trapped and once I attached, I held on for dear life, despite his warnings and pushing me back and telling me that I was better off without him and that I deserve better.  Now, of course, I'm the bad guy.  And that's okay.  Honestly, I'd rather have him feel as though I'm a terrible person than to have him continue to play that victim and hate me so much, because then I won't have to deal with him pestering me with 'i love you's and 'I miss you so much,'s (which of course, would just pull me back in.)

A bit off topic but when mine told me about his BPD... . gave me a book to read.  He asked "What scares you the most?"  I said "The hating."  He said well hold on, it's coming.  No $hit.

when you say "aura", I think "protection" and "inviding"  :)

I did a couple of sessions myself with a T who works on healing and aura-reading and she said my aura is very defuse, which means I am not very good protected to negative energies and I have a great risk of being "attacked" by BP-isch people since I can't protect myself well: my aura is open and therefore vulnerable. I think this goes together with being a hyper-sensitive person, or with people who are under a lot of emotional stress.

She learned me some techniques to strenghten my aura and energetically protect myself to emotional attacks  :)

I can't tell if it worked since I am not an aura-reader myself and although I know this women is sincere and gifted, it stays a rather "misty" subject, and open to interpretation.

Still I do feel better lately and more important: being more aware of these energetical bonds between people has opened my perception on the way people relate to eachother ! It's also very interesting to look backwards and evaluate former r/ships (romantic as well as more formal ) from this point of view... .

My X was the exact same!  She was beautiful, just looking at her with that awesome smile was exstasy!  I had been married and ended up divorcing because my x wife and I just couldn't get along.  My relationship with my xBPD girlfriend was the exact opposite, we NEVER fought!  Not once to this day have I as much as raised my voice to her!  She would pull occasional disappearing acts too.  I was so into her and loved every minute I spent with her.  No woman has made me feel the way she did, no joke!  I'm in my 7th day of NC

Dude.  :)ang... .

When my ex told me of his diagnosis, I'd never heard of it.  It was clear that we wasn't paying much attention to it or doing anything to help himself.  I actually bought him a book.  I thought it might push him toward therapy or help of any kind.  Nope.  And then he'd go through his ___, and come out asking everyone around if he had something... . if something was wrong with him.  His ex-wife is a social worker / counselor and she would NOT even go near trying to diagnose him with a 10 foot pole (I think she might be on the BPD spectrum herself, to be honest).  He'd already been diagnosed and said he'd never go to therapy again, but I'm not sure why he couldn't just go on ahead and get a second opinion from a professional that was not the mother of his son.  Weirdness.  I knew something was awry from the beginning, but he was SO unhappy in his marriage when I initially met him that I figured most of his problems were related to that... .

LMAO!  You have got to be kidding me!  That is terrifying... .

You guys just rock. So honest and insightful.

Turkish, I don't think for a minute it is shallow to like a pretty woman. I am curious if the chemistry was augmented by the mistrust she seemed to display at first blush?


rodman it's like the lyric from this song 'when somebody needs you well there's no drug like that'! I am embarrassed to admit it but one of my  my-issues was exactly that. I did it in full knowledge that it might be painful for the guy but it accomplished the goal. When I came back it could be like new 'honeymoon feeling' again. I would think "Oh here we go, he knows a bit about me that makes me vulnerable. I'll duck off before that gets exploited but I need to come back later to check if I'm still desirable. And because I've been gone he'll roll out the red carpet and it can be perfect for a bit before he finds something else about me that cracks my code and exposes how damned worthless I am behind this carefully constructed gameface. Before he notices that I am not pretty - that is his imagination - someone he devised in his head."

And it would work. And they would adore me for awhile till I made a mistake. then I'd have to leave again hoping they would forget the mistake. Because my mistakes would cause them to not love me

LIGHTBULB moment. Man. Just seeing how much BPD behaviour I have imbibed from messed up mother. Groannnnn


I feel exactly like that had happened with this guy too! In fact I recall quite cold heartedly that I was ambivalent but decided I was going to 'make' him fall in love with me. Even had plans for how the invention of my image should take place. (Ah I was a teenager and read too many novels. I have to forgive myself now in light of the damage he ended up inflicting on ME!)  I'm still learning what it was I had to learn from him. Hopefully, on day ... . .


I am like that, maternal! Absolutely tenacious to holding on once attached. Regardless of whether it is beneficial

EE - that is whacko. Seriously?

Nope,

Mine was not the most attractive.I was dating several women at the time we met. She was also dating. Strangely enough, I wasn't getting serious with the others because there were too many  red-flag

We got along great. Loved the social life with her. Couple of months in I was talking with my T and told her that I liked my ex, didn't see any  red-flag  to end it, but didn't see any green flags to say jump in.

Strangely enough again, as I drove home I got a call from my ex saying she didn't see any reason not to continue, but didn't feel the desire to "go all in." I remember this clearly. I said, "WOW, I am leaving my T just now having told her the exact same thing." (coincidence or mirroring?)

We met for a drink and decided we really liked each other as friends. With the relationship pressure off, we met several times just to talk. We both opened up and a month later were "all in."

Wonder where I would be if we went NC then instead.

I'm not sure that its always just mirroring. My exBPD seemed to have a sixth sense. He would bring up things I was thinking but hadnt voiced. Once when he recycled me and I was so confused but too scared to talk about it because I wanted him to stay, mid way through making love he just stopped and put his hands on my face and said " Narellan listen to me. It's ok, it's always been ok" I almost cried. He went on to say I was forever entwined in his soul. On reflection of what he said during the lovemaking he was saying it wasn't my fault. This is something he does and " we " are ok. Dumped me within weeks of this.

Narellan,

This is such a heartbreaking tale. I can't even imagine the conflict and sorrow you feel. Your bravery in telling that story will bring much comfort to many.

It makes me wonder. do we get a chance to see them momentarily beyond their pain, or are they supreme manipulators. If it is the latter, I can't believe it is conscience.

I can't accept that he was a master manipulator. The above take was one of many many times he showed me his pain/ turmoil.

Another time he was driving me to the airport and I was coming back home after 5 days together. I was silently crying. Not saying a word. And he reached over and took my hand and lifted it to his lips and kissed it and said " Narellan everything you're feeling, I'm feeling" I looked at him and he was crying.

3 days after I got home from that trip he split me black said we were only friends, and replaced me with my best friend.

He let me in. I got too close and he showed himself to me. Then panicked and ran a mile.

That's my understanding. That helps me to move on without too much anger and I can recall these moments where he was honest without too much pain now. ( 10 weeks NC today)

How did you feel when he said that, did you sense something off?

Overall, I think you are doing very well at only 10 weeks out...

No I didn't sense anything was off at these 2 times. Possibly he was mirroring my airpost trip crying. But the intimate one came out of no where. He wasn't looking for any response, he just said it. It felt like it came from the heart.

Other things I look back on and get a sense it was a bit off. But that lovemaking one still hits my soul. Wish I'd never thought about it today, it's really triggered the sadness again. So today I'm having a few tears, but it's the first time in a week so that's progress.

If I picked it apart, what would his motivation be to say that mid way through love making?

He already obviously had me back.

This is exactly what hooked me too.  My ex is gorgeous by any objective standard (that does seem surprisingly common, doesn't it?), and sure that was attractive, but what really hooked me, what kept me staying was the connection she formed with me.  The pain she shared with me.  The way she opened up to me.  The way she seemed to trust me so completely.  The intimacy of it.  We seemed to have this connection like I had never known before.  I now know that's what mirroring and idealization will do, but I didn't at the time and it seemed so very, very real.  I wanted to save her from all of that.  I wanted to take her away from the world of ___ she had grown up in, all the completely f'ed up stuff that had happened to her, to heal all those wounds and dry all those tears.  That touched something core inside me.  She affected me in a way no one else ever has, and I'm sort of afraid no one ever will again.

So is mirroring always insincere? That they don't know how to feel so they copy your emotions ? If they initiate the heartfelt comment out of no where that's not mirroring is it?

Then that must have been all the more hurtful, for him to split you so quickly.

Not to get to dry on you, but pwBPD feel the same emotions we do, just so much more intensely. Unable to control those emotions, it is the fickle nature of the disorder. It was real when he expressed it to you, no doubt. This is a recurring question here, "did they really love us?" In most cases, I think they did. But with the emotional dysregulation, the emotions cycle, not constant, nor consistent.

A recurring dysfuntion through my r/s was our sex life (I felt like an abused wife). Sometimes when it was good, she would look me in the eyes and say, "I love you Turkish." I knew and felt that was real... being unable to regulate her emotions, it wasn't consistent. Suffering from walking on eggshells before her next outburst, it wasn't consistent with me either  :'(

Totally. My last bod girlfriend I was lukewarm immediately, them very quickly was drawn to her, convincing myself she was incredibly dynamic, intelligent, attractive.

This is what I've come to believe as well, Turkish.  I do think the emotion was sincere, at least in some way, at the time they expressed it.  It's just that sustaining it is impossible.  The problem with BPD is that emotions are always in flux, and since emotion dictates reality, reality is always changing.  Just because they love you now doesn't mean they will love you tomorrow.

Thanks Turkish. Yeah the pain from it is still pretty raw I'm realising today. I still feel a bit in shock. His aura was of a vulnerable little boy who didn't fit in anywhere. I was so drawn to that. His personality was " I don't need anyone" strong confident but I saw the real him on many occasions when he let me. It wasn't physical for me, the attraction went so far beyond that. I still have a lot to learn. Feeling weak again today. Hope he doesn't try to contact me on a weak day, but that sixth sense of his who knows...

Theres a saying around here for pwBPD, "feelings are facts." The problem, as you say, is that the feelings are in flux. My take on that is," when feelings are facts, reality becomes an illusion;the truth, a lie." I witnessed the dissociation playing out in my home, when I talked to her about reality, and she turned to me, crying and asked, "what is reality?"  I was aghast. I had no reply, and I realized it was over, despite our two children sleeping peacefully only 10 ft away.  It was one more moment I realized how deep her pain really was.

Sadly I could ask that question today. " what is reality?" I'll never know what was real and what was lies. He told a few lies that I know of.

So this book I'm reading, I'm half way through and the girl in its husband just died. I just picked it up to take my mind off this post and the first paragraph I read says

"M and I locked eyes and it was like I'd touched an electric fence, there was such a bzzzzz of connection. He understood; the only one who did. I saw right through his eyes and all the way down into his bleak abandoned soul and recognised what I saw"

That is word for word how I felt when I met my ex BPD. I could not have put that into words any better. How bizarre is that to read that paragraph minutes after being on here talking about my exes aura?

This raises an interesting question for me.  Did I somehow subconsciously know how troubled my BPDh was, and was I attracted to this, or was I completely oblivious to the depth of his psychological damage?

You see, I met him for the first time very briefly at a marathon, in February 2013.  I was very attracted to his quiet, reserved demeanour.  At least, this is how I interpreted it:  that he was intense, reserved, very private, determined, deep.  But not necessarily unfriendly. Just very, very careful around people.  I actually liked that.  This is how I am, I think.

I realised that he must have had a difficult past, as he was running against Drug Abuse - he had a sign on his backpack and he was running the whole race with a backpack strapped to his back.

I then obsessed about him and googled for info about him for a month thereafter, before I finally plucked up the courage to contact him via his Facebook page.

We then communicated via email and sms for a short while before I invited him to visit, as it seemed that he had business in this town where I live.  All to do with his anti drug campaign.  He said that a Christian radio station in town was wanting to interview him about his cause.

The rest is history.  We married at the drop of a hat.  I only started getting to know him during the 11 month duration of our marriage.  I got to know him in the sense that he was psychologically crashing and imploding before my very eyes and I was desperately trying to reach out to him, find out what is ailing him, and getting mental health professional help for him... .

It was during this process that he was diagnosed with Bipolar Mood Disorder and Complex PTSD and medicated for this.  But still his anger and silent raging and withdrawal and depression and suicidal ideation, nightmares, flashbacks, dissociative states, etc persisted.  And then he started turning on me, emotionally and devalueing me and splitting etc.

This was when finally the penny dropped with me and I realised that this man must have a personality disorder, it just all fell into place and made more sense to me.

All this time, I was burning out physically and emotionally.  I felt scared, confused and trapped in something I had not anticipated at all. I thought he would settle in with me and we could build a healing love relationship together, and both find comfort, calm and serenity, secure in the knowledge that we have found a good and understanding partner!

So still I ponder the question as to whether there was an unspoken "aura" about him,  which included his BPD state, that attracted me subconsciously... . probably yes.  Because my unresolved issues were crying out to be heard by attracting another damaged and emotionally unavailable partner.

WOW, I had the same experience. We would argue occasionally, but it was always respectful. By and large for me it was "blissful"... . but we were just "together". ... . but then when the change came it was abrupt and complete, I have never experienced anything like it. ... . and from that moment on she was like someone I never met after 5 years of living with her. Devastatingly painful. (I think from day 1 that there was always something going on within her that WAS NOT what she was showing me... . and it just built up till her dam broke. I will never really know).

My heart is just wound up and moved by your stories. I have said it before and I'll say it again, the heart rending honesty of the people in this group just moves me. Not only that, but the willingness to self examine and the willingness to try and understand and find the highest possible truth is just amazing. I have been surrounded by many selfdishonest and irresponsible people for so long that seeing these replies is such a gift.


I was reading about manipulators to start with when I came upon the BPD material. I think there is a lot of emotional weight added to the word 'manipulator' It implies that people know exactly what they are doing, exactly what they want and exactly how to get it which is just not how the world works. but think about this - a child can pay very close attention to parents and use the information to get what they want. is that bad? No it's just human r'ships. it's only when the manipulation brings about destructive effects that it becomes a problem. And I don't think BP's really have enough that determined sociopathic "win at all costs' that this implies (although some may)

What happened to you, where your ex contacted that deep part of your being that resonated may well have been the honest lucid moment. That was possibly why it got to you the way it did. 

I was reading something the other day about love and it said something like  Yes they may have loved you in the way they think is love but was it secure mutually upbuilding love? or was it a self serving transient sort of love? And if the latter, is that enough? A love you can't count on morphing into something painful and unstable and then into something hateful? it really gave me pause to think about what love means to me.

(Congratulations on your progress and NC btw!  )


Ihope2 that must have been an incredibly difficult time for you  - good on you for coming through as far as you have. I wonder how much of your 'rescue' and help characteristics may have been involved in your r'ship? It's so very human to want to help and it's such a shame that sometimes all the help we want to give can't seem to change things I am sorry this has happened to you and wish you peace and strength to cope

Thank you Ziggidy. I realise now the relationship was a classic Codependent - Borderline Personality Disorder one!  Text book case!

I rescued from the get-go. From when I saw him running the marathon, and I approached him when we were done running the race, and I donated some cash to him.  I remember feeling quite motherly towards him, as I also had the impression that he was much younger than his 36 years.  I thought he was about 28 or so.  So, it activated that rescuer, codependent aspect in me, that I have always had as part of my make-up, I reckon.

The idea that one person can make it "all better" for another person.  It seems so silly to think about it now. But that is truly what my core belief has been, and now that I have been brought to examine it openly, I realise how faulty it has been.

I definitely had the rescue thing going on ,too... especially for the 1st couple of years of the relationship... . in retrospect I feel like such a dumbbell.she just sucked it dry, but when I needed her, I just got anger, abuse, and self-centeredness.

Hi Infared. I felt sad when I read this. i am sorry you were badly treated. I am even sorrier that you were feeling down on yourself about it. It is never EVER a bad thing to try and help someone and or rescue them. It is a human kindness. I think it was nice you were impelled by a rescue reflex. there are a lot worse things )

When I met mine, she was stunning, not the prettiest girl I ever have been out with but exactly my type of girl, seemed slightly shy, was drunk!

We went for supper some time after and I knew then that she was in my view pretty much perfect, funny, charming, sexual, polite, kind and seemed caring. The one thing I did note massively for the first few dates was that towards the end of the evening, she'd get all jumpy, like a cat on a hot tin roof, eyes all over the place, constant movement, very nervous. I questioned this (took the piss out of her about it!) and as far as I could make out it was all about the sexual side of life, it was almost as if she couldn't control herself.

Dropping her off in the car afterwards, she would almost leap out of the car, almost to get away asap! Strange how you remember the little things.

I still would maintain that she lit my fire in a way that none else has ever done when we met for the first time, I cannot put my finger on it exactly, but she was perfect.

Then after the abortion she devalued (I guess she had every right to) and then the hell began for 3 months.

I feel I could forgive her but she will never me, due in part to my stance on the abortion, the relationship was not "normal" after she moved in, so many red flags, that is what resulted in our decision not to go ahead with the pregnancy at the time.

Looking back now, I wish she had the balls to carry it through, I would have come on board soon enough, just freaked out. But then I ask myself how would it all have been with a young baby in tow as well.

I feel a lot more at peace since i have found this site, amazing how many feelings/thoughts/explanations and guidance there is and i can relate to so many stories, feelings, thoughts.

I still have a lot to learn about myself but healing first is the most important thing for me.

Thanks all.

- to me it feels that manipulation is one of the techniques they sometimes use when they deliberatedly want to get something done from someone, and when they do that they are conscient of it

- but very often their manipulative actions are not deliberatedly "planned", especially when they are in a disregulated stage, and I believe that in those moments it is not done on purpose, in those moments it becomes one of their unconscious survival strategies... .

- further more I suppose that the manipulation, being on purpose or not, finally became some kind of bad habit after the years  :'(

I'm starting to know my BP-friend that good that I can usually tell when it's planned manipulation and when he seems not to be aware of it... .

sometimes he even admits that he is manipulating, he told me he was a doing it allready as a child.

Oh stories like this make me feel like I should take everything you've said to me since I've been here all the more serious. Mine is more like yours, in these respects. I genuinely believe he feels everything. When I put my dog to sleep, he was right there holding my hand and crying along with me. That was no manipulation, it was real. I've thought and told him he's tortured inside since WAY before I've ever known he had BPD. He is the most emotional/sensitive person I've ever known.

When I met him I was very closed off but working on it in therapy. I didn't reveal any emotions to anyone, ever. Crying in front of people, hugging nothing. So when I met him he forced me to open up since he was on the opposite end of the spectrum and demanded it from me as validation of my feelings for him. I've never been so open with ANYONE in my life. I thought he was so different from anyone I've ever known in my life in that respect. I could open up to him and didn't feel like he was going to use it against me later, and he never did. That is the part, I think that makes it all so hard for me.

He is in my heart and to try to live my life without someone who (it seemed) cared so much about me, when I never got that from my own PARENTS even is the worst.

When I met mine for the first time, I went home and he called to talk to me that evening.  I remember that the first thing I told him when he asked what I thought about him was that, I thought he looked like a, "player".  He denied it and told me that he is a very nice guy, etc.  We used to go out together in public and guys used to always look at me, and he would get mad and give the guys dirty looks.  After about 2 dates, he asked me if he thought we, "looked good together", and I thought that was sort of odd.  After a while he avoided going to public places with me.  There were many other signs but I ignored them because he was my frist relationship and I was naive... .

This is it. I knew mine was more sensitive than the average woman, but it took me many months living with her to think, "it's like she has some type of PD." I felt guilty for thinking that.

It's good to remember that pwBPD feel the same emotions we do, they just feel them much more intensely, and have little control over them. The feelings at the moment are real. Later, another feeling takes it's place. It often feels like manipulation to us in the long term, but to them it is about survival. They often can't comprehend that others don't operate that way (the shallow sense of empathy since their emotions are focused inward).

Turkish I get so confused because some people say BPDs feel things so much stronger than we do and others say they just mirror us and are incapable of loving. If my ex loved me even half as much as I loved him how could he try and replace me with my best friend? Wouldn't he have some concept of the agony that would cause me?

Some day they suffer and are ashamed at the pain they've caused and others say they can't feel remorse and just move on.

I know he loved me but not as much as I loved him apparently, because I could never have disappeared without a word.

If you only rely on forum posts, then you will always doubt the authenticity and eventually it will serve as an excuse to keep clinging to the fantasy image, which you obviously do. Their deficiency in affect regulation will make primitive emotions more intense, but intensity is not the same as depth. For a pwBPD, love equals to need. It is well documented, just grab a book on the topic.

Narellan I think it's misleading to cast all the BPD'd people in the same light - we know it's a spectrum disorder right? Some things are more so for one person, less so for another. Also the reception of those feelings - our own personal emotion environment is going to colour how we perceive their behaviour, no? Part of us buys fully into the love for want of better description of the sensation. And you know what? I believe it's as real as we thought - but only at that moment.  Til the next wave of stimulus sends the wind in another direction or worse, knocks the  whole boat over. This is something I struggle with. The emotion is real but only the work of the moment. It doesn't hold. And it is not rationally threaded to the next emotion of the next moment. THEY can't explain it how can we?


Did your ex love you? Many of the things you have said shows that he did - but was it material? Was it solid? Was it what YOU PERCEIVE LOVE TO BE? If he could leave you in that awful deceitful way then the only conclusion is that no, he could not possibly grasp the agony that would inflict. But then again if he did feel that, would it hold? Would it translate to remorse or guilt? Possibly but again, would it hold? Or would it be channeled into transference, projection, callous disregard?

Sometimes there's mirroring. Sometimes there's loving sometimes there's manipulation. It's whatever tool gets me through this moment of turmoil till I can recover my self esteem, consolidate my position, align my reinforcements.

I imagine that replacing you with your best 'friend' was more about getting someone on side rather than inflicting pain on you. But not necessarily exclusive of it. Some minimise the pain they inflict "She had it coming. it was her own fault' Others self inflict "How could I do that? i'm a terrible person. I'll make it up to myself by 'loving' her best 'friend' so much that it'll PROVE I'm not cruel." More likely is "SHE'S cruel. SHE'S inflicted pain on ME. SHE's probably been cheating on ME. I'm just protecting (projecting) myself."

That's the crazy maker. All tools lead to Rome.

I do not agree. While we have a broad spectrum, the underlying core symptoms remain the same. They may have the skills to more or less function in a work environment, due to their socieconomic background, intelligence and more pronounced affect regulation. They may take on different roles so one can categorize them as Queen, Witch, Waif, Hermit. It doesn't really make any difference in how they bond, what defense mechanism they use in the times of stress, where they stuck in emotional development.

Narellan, I really think mine loved me more than I loved her at some points. It's the intensity of emotion, which as Boris points out, but not depth, or  sustainability. The flip side of that can be hate or indifference. Unregulated emotions out of control. In your case, you have his brain injury thrown into the equation, though that doesn't make his behaviors any less damaging and hurtful to you.

What I wrote above are thoughts that reference things I've gotten from reading things from recovered pwBPD (who better to tell us than someone who suffered from it?), and also a bit from Understanding The Borderline Mother which I started reading, but suddenly have 6 books going at once, so I took a break from it for a while.

Yea, yea, yea.  I hear everybody on here.  It all sounds so damn familiar that I often wonder if one of these times on here, I am going to find that it is indeed my ex someone is talking about!  I too wonder did she purposely manipulate me, was it subconcious, a little of both?  No idea.  All I will say is that I am taking my ex to court if she does not pay back my money.  That letter will be sent to her in the next three days, and I am ready to move forward with this.  I wish it did not have to be this way, but I refuse to let her get away with any more bad behavior.  I dont deserve it, never deserved it, and I am at my wits end.  In the end, I may never get a dime from her, but at least she will have to deal with the court order, and it will require some responsibility on her end.  Do I still love her even though she cut me out of her life and blocked me from social media three months ago?  This after I lent her $3,000, and in fact should have been held in even higher regard?  Yes, I still love her.  I still care for her.  Crazy, isn't it?  The difference is that I have had time to process the whole thing, and I get a little bit better month to month.  I hear you all though.  I have those days or even weeks where it seems like it happened yesterday, and I miss her and cry for her all over again.  I had one of those weeks last week.  Anything can trigger it... .a memory, a picture, etc.  I hate feeling like that, and yet there is a strange beauty in the sadness of it all.  Yes, it does feel so good to love someone like that and for them to (seemingly) love you like that.  It is an intoxicating feeling.  That is why we lament so heavily on the feeling.  Because it felt so damn good.  I dont fall for women very often... .about once every 5-6 years on average.  When it happens, we hope that this will be the one.  I honestly started to believe a couple months into the relationship that I in fact had fount THE ONE.  Yes, I still cry.  Man, do I cry.

Hmmmm... .did I write that or did you! LOL! My experience exactly.

no need to be confused Narellan here, although your confusion is understandable. i think your confusion comes from your more 'normal' perspective of emotions, which are more stable, don't change on a dime, and are more closely rooted in reality. let's contrast that to what we know about BPD using insight Turkish was sharing--a pwBPD has emotions which are not stable, that do change on a dime, that are less rooted in reality.

you mention three things here (very perceptive) about pwBPD:

1) feel things much stronger than we do -- i would add to this that i think all of us could have emotions just as strong as they do, but because we have a truer sense of reality so our emotions aren't always at volume 11. i don't think pwBPD are gifted with stronger abilities to love/hate than i. i'm just as passionate as my ex about life. more so in some aspects. i simply think they have a different version of reality where these feelings are justified for them, not so much for us.

2) they mirror us -- as Turkish mentioned, you can learn a lot by listening to actual pwBPD discuss this. to generalize, i think many (most?) in adulthood (let's say by 30 or so) are aware of this on some level simply because they've done it so much. probably much less aware or not at all as a teenager/young adult. i posted a string of quotes from pwBPD previously where they openly discuss mirroring. some found it odd and were introspective. some thought it was funny how they could manipulate and control people by reflecting them.

3) they are incapable of loving -- i think the tone of this thread, which i wholly agree with, is that pwBPD do experience loving emotions, but it differs from ours because it's not consistent or sustainable. and the intensity of the love (or hate) far outweighs what's actually happening in reality. so perhaps a better way of saying this is "they are incapable of loving in the same consistent sustainable way that we are".

soo, thus and therefore  :) my point is that all three of these things are *true*. more than this, they don't contradict each other. i think your perspective that only one of these things can be true about your ex indicates your personal thinking, which is more stable, more long term and consistent. you wouldn't be able to do all these things, but your ex does.

did your ex love you? yes. did he hate you? yes. did he mirror you? yes   and you have the insight and intelligence i think over time to figure out what feels most real to you about each of these questions. my take is what he said when you were making love, it was real in that moment. and what he did after your r/s ended was just as real. both felt very real to you, no? so trust that feeling. you're beeeeautiful daaaarling you can trust yourself 


this is less confusing by understanding his motivations here. sure, some of this could have been his abandonment issues and needing to enmesh with someone else. but what's not mentioned enough in my opinion is pwBPD's need to punish and seek revenge against people they feel have slighted them. it wasn't only that your ex wanted to connect with another woman--you saw the evidence yourself, he sent that picture of you two kissing right and then made a mockery of you and your r/s to her. he also provoked you by posting up nude/semi-nude photos of you right? to get a reaction out of you. i think it's safe to say in this moment he had a hatred for you, or at least a lot of contempt.

of course your ex knew the agony he was causing you. because he wanted to cause you agony. anyone that harbors so much jealousy and concern for infidelities in a r/s is fully aware of how terrible it feels to be cheated on, devalued, played with, abandoned. because of their PD they 'feel' this way intensely about you at some point, so then they do all/some of the above to punish you for making them feel this way. this is their revenge for your perceived transgressions. simple as that.


again both are true, often for the same individual. pwBPD can feel lots of shame for ways they behave, but in the moment no there's no remorse. because in the moment you deserve to be treated like crap. then on monday they love you again and want to act like it didn't happen. actually none of it happened. actually, why are you bringing it up again? uugghh! want to go get pizza?

I love this from Goldylamont:

"did your ex love you? yes. did he hate you? yes. did he mirror you? yes  :)"

Yes... yes... .it all depends on which self-centered childish minute you are in. It all changes from black to white at any given moment.  Remember "Borderline"refers to "the borderline of schizophrenia".  :)ees people be CRAZY... .there is no reasoning with these relationship situations... .and I believe that is "our" deep pain and frustration... .we keep using "reason" to try and sort this out. Doesn't work.  

I do not believe my ex feels emotions more intensely than me. More irrationally?yes.  With less complexity? yes. A more limited set of emotions? yes. A lack of self reflection and insight? yes

"I thought I was watching Cinderella until I realized I was watching The Exorcist."

BlimBlam... .that is soo poignant!  Oh, how I wish it were not true... .but alas, that is what I experienced.

blimblam - well said <applauds>