BPDFamily.com

My exBPD always did things for me when asked. Bring me coffee or lunch at work, or sometimes come visit me at work, but now looking back, I feel as if it was for the reason of manipulation rather than love for me. She would hold it over my head and no matter how much I did for her, she would make it seem like she did everything for me and I did nothing for in return... .ever. Was this how it was for you as well?

I can relate, I know we are all just ungrateful invalids, who drain amazing BPD people! /end sarcasm

In my experience I would say they are never driven to do something for you just because they want to, but for what they may gain in return.

Even when they admit they are doing something for themselves they will later turn it around and tell you it was all for YOU, and how dare you be so ungrateful.  :)

Yes it was the same for me and still is. In the end I was so demoralized I felt like I was going insane. I am so glad that is over. It is one of the greatest things with NC. I don't have to fight it anymore.

I didn't bring her lunch to her one time in the middle of the night and it has been thrown in my face at least 9 times.

Never mind that fact that every Friday I would bring lunch home for her from a local eatery to take to work or left a dozen roses or candy in her car or walked her to work or any other thing. The fact that I didn't bring her lunch one time was met with how many times she's bent over backwards to accommodate me and how much I really don't love her because of it.

This and the splicing of events to show her as the victim, taking no responsibility for any action, and outright lying when it came to events that had happened in the past.

It's amazing how they play the victim so well. I don't miss that one bit. My exBPD was as childish as they come. Being only 22,  she was still young anyhow.  Her family full of enablers doesn't help either. When we moved in together, we agreed that I pay all the bills, she does all the cleaning. That didn't last long. She began to complain that I never help around the house, but if I mentioned that I paid $1000 in bills a month and never asked for a dime from her... there was he11 to pay.

This post has just made me re-live so many occasions that I thought I was the only one that was made to feel like that due to to most BPD females bein money grabbers and ther exes saying how broke they were once she left .

Oh yes, it was. And not only when asked. He insisted on cleaning my place, wash the dishes, go shopping for me, take the train and come for me, when I visited a friend outside the city, carry my small backpack, which I wouldn't let him, but he kept on insisting, buy me flowers and sweets etc... And it could be quite stressful, when he asked me all the time: Do you want me to do this or that for you. I had the feeling that he did all this to get something from me. Attention, attention and attention. ALL the time. It was quite stressful. And yes, after he started painting me black, he would tell me that he made such a hard effort, that he did all the work in our relationship, while I did absolutely nothing.  

Maybe it was partly manipulation, more or less conscious. But maybe it was also a way to try to do his best to feel he deserved to be loved, and not to be abandoned. I think he knew somehow, at some level, that his destructive behaviour (the roller-coaster, his rage, his controlling me etc.), which seemed to be beyond his control, put the relationship at risk. So he compensated with what he was capable of.

A friend of mine, who is a therapist, saw his idealization and his extreme helpfulness as a way of trying to keep the shadow, the terror and the rage, down, because it feels unbearably threatening. They try hard to cling to the idealization (Paradise), but that is doomed to fail, of course. This happens unconsciously, he said.  

I really really want to see a therapist,  but I'm not sure I can afford it. I feel so emotionally drained from this experience. I felt like I did everything right and that if my ex didn't have BPD,  it would have been a great relationship.  I don't know if I can trust again so easily as I did with her.  Are there any affordable online therapists?

Yeah... .that to.

Mine did many things for me at first, probably the first year.  And it was definitely used against me... .when she stopped doing it.  "I stopped doing those things for you because you are so neglectful and don't care about me."

It's kinda ridiculous.  She would tell me how "patient" she was with me.  She stopped doing nice things for me within the first year of our 13 year marriage.  The rest of the marriage was her dumping everything on me, including responsibilities, lying to me, blaming me, cheating on me, and deliberately "punishing" me for how I "hurt" her so much.  Can't fill a black hole.

I would get sick of wiping her butt and would constantly, for years, repeat the same cycle:  get frustrated, finally speak up to her, listen to her tell me that I'm mean, wrong, neglectful, and unappreciative of the things she *did* do, which would then lead to me shutting up, doing it all by myself more, which would eventually lead to me getting frustrated and building up in resentment, until I finally spoke up... .etc etc.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  Ad nauseam.  Ad infinitum.

13 years?  That's some time.  I was only in for 20 months.  But the cycle seems so similar. She only left me when I found out that she was cheating,  I called her out on it, but she still found a way to blame me. I was crazy for looking in her phone.  It's my fault she cheated.  She fought so hard for me and us.  How could I betray her trust by going through her phone and catch hey cheating,  etc etc. I feel sorry for everyone who has gone through this.

Yes.  All of this.  Over and over for years.

She really did not have much to hold over my head, The only thing she could really use is-  I let you stay at my house,  which I do respect and appreciate but I did not need a place to stay, she wanted me there. Not to mention I did not just stay there, I helped support that place, it cost me a minimum of 200–300 dollars a week in contributions of money, food, gas, items to repair the house, etc.  The fact is she may have a house because Lucky for her she was the female in her divorce but she cannot afford her lifestyle unless she is dating somebody who will be willing to supplement it with funds.  Other than that she really did nothing for me that she can hang over my head,  that was her only thing.

I let you into my home.-----  yeah, but I helped support it very much.

My wife INSISTS on making home-cooked meals almost every night and doing my laundry. As she does these things though, she huffs and puffs the whole time and acts completely put out by it.  I've told her she doesn't need to stress herself out so much over it and that there are other ways she can show her love to me... .by just being nice to me! Never mind the fact that I do the VAST MAJORITY of the house work and spend more time taking care of our son than she does.

In my bachelor days, I got used to being completely self-sufficient. My wife likes to make me feel incapable of taking care of myself though and always holds the things she does for me over my head day in and day out. It's manipulation and an attempt at controlling me. It's just ONE of the many ways she controls and manipulates situations with me.

What ever happened to, "you do your part and I'll do mine and we will just live and be happy".

Mine did thing for me even when I specifically asked him not to (I did learn early on that it would be thrown in my face at some point).

He bought me (us) a futon and twice disassembled it during late night arguments. The arguments were because he'd wait till I fell asleep and would wake me up to tell me he didn't feel loved and we NEEDED to talk NOW. The fact he had been over all night was irrelevant.

I was continually told I was ungrateful. He always spelled it wrong too, which for some reason I found hysterical. So I worked harder at being more grateful, but it never ever worked in my favor.

I was always accused of showing love by "gifts of service", or helping people, including her and her chaotic schedule. She wanted to loved by "touch". Well, she got both so Im still really at a loss of what the hell she was talking about. Just another thing that confused the hell out of me in the r/s... .still does.

Mine said a few weeks back. Ive done so much for you and still do. All I can think that she now does for me is let me see my son.

She even tried to make me think she was doing me a favour by alowing me to see my other sons with my ex wife.

I have heard that she is telling people I used her as my housekeeper and only gave her £800 a month to look after the house. She fails to tell them that I paid the mortgage, gas, water, electric, council tax, tv licence, telephone, internet, sky, road tax and the shopping when I was home.

I cant actually think of anything she did do for me.

Toward the end, my ex would tell me that I never made her feel special.  This being after I brought her flowers and catered to get every need.  If she wanted to cuddle,  we did.  I even told hey at one time,  "I can't tag your mind, but I love you enough that if you tell me what you need. I will give it to you to the best if my ability". Apparently we are suppose to be mind readers.

Oh, I definitely get this one. My wife has been complaining for the last couple of weeks that I don't give her flowers anymore... .nevermind the fact that she really hasn't deserved any, based on the way she's been treating me.

She also expects me to be completely psychic when it comes to knowing her wants and needs. It's impossible to make her happy.

It was a terrible experience doing everything I could to make her happy and nothing worked. The more I tried, the more unhappy she seemed. At the end she told me that all my efforts were "too late". Of course it was my fault... .How long have you 2 been married? When my ex started doing this is when she started seeking attention elsewhere and ultimately left me for someone else.

Oh! He needed to FEEL the love. Problem was, what I did to make him feel it changed by the minute. He'd actually tell me sometimes that I had done a great job at making him feel loved, and I'd try to duplicate it. It never worked a second time!    I just couldn't keep up - it was brutal!

LOL that situation would have made my breakup bearable.

My wife and I have been together for a little over 7 years now and married for a little over 5 years. I used to buy her flowers all the time and did lots of nice things for her all the time. It's never been enough for her though and after awhile I've just gotten numb to trying to make her happy since it's virtually impossible to do so. She'll find something to be mad at me for no matter what.

Mine always tried to remind me of what he did for me. Before we broke up he said everything is "ALL ABOUT YOU"! Really, as Mutt would say it was all about HIM. Switch the pronouns. When he got down on his knee and asked me to marry him it was 100% his idea. He said when we broke up that he asked me because it was what I wanted. I never made it an ultimatum. He did say under his breath one day, "the only way I am going to be able to make you stay and not leave (I would leave when the rages started) is to marry you". You would have thought I stole his wallet, bought a ring, put it on my own finger and told everyone I was engaged. He would get mad at me if I did not announce him as my fiancé. WOW! It got old. It was always about him and his needs... .when we broke up he said I had a short term memory when it came to all he did for me.

I'm really glad these posts are here to read. They serve as reminders that I was not crazy and this IS an illness. I've been through the cycle so many times in the r/s and nearly as many out. This (detaching) has been the most difficult process of my life. At times I'm grateful to have made it out alive. Sometimes I'm so angry I scream at her in the car - even though no one is there. Sometimes I cry like a child because the pain runs so deep into my soul. Sometimes I try and practice forgiveness,  but have to remind myself that it in fact IS a disorder and my hands are truly tied. It's been a full two months today. A big 8 weeks of nothing. And it's been just about the worst 8 weeks of my life. One good thing is I've managed to quit smoking cold. I can barely notice and have almost no cravings at all. The withdrawal from her has been so intense nicotine has truly been no match... .

I can't tell you how many times I've found myself so pissed and just cussing her out while I'm in the car by myself or even crying. The level of frustration becomes so intense at times.

I curse him out in the car too!  We must be a fun bunch to watch drive. Yes mine was good to me for about the first year then off and on for the remainder of the relationship. At the end he was cruel and dishonest and generally a giant a$$.

So why do I cry far more then I curse after all the months? And why does the thought of dating repulse me?  And why can't I find a genuine wonderful man to spend my life with? 

Sigh. Today seems like a tough one.

Beats me Hope. My ex/gf just became more distant and snarky as she devalued me and I just couldnt do anything right. Got to the point where it didnt seem to matter if I was there or not. then she dropped the hammer and it was total shock and awe! However, Im 4 months out and Im doing a hell of a lot better, but, like the others, I curse and cry too! The fact it that no matter which route I take, I can see her damn house... .ugh! hurry up spring! at least the trees will grow back! Im not looking for anyone right now, but I did panic and signed up for every dating site I could find!... .lol. I canceled them after a couple months. Im far from ready, nor am I interested. I have gone out with groups of friends and that hasnt been to bad. It wil only get better.

Maybe not things she did but things she got for me, and very specifically my phone. She gave me a phone the first christmas we were together and during many arguments she would out of no where say "give me MY phone back" one day i got sick of her saying that and i just chucked it in the middle of the street.

The funny thing is that i later came to find out that she purchsed this phone with a stolen credit card.

Like Hope I do have to say the first couple of years he was good to me. Flowers, cards, helping around the house etc.  When he painted me black is when it got so bad.

Hi everyone, great post.

Wow, where do I start?

My ex; Hmmm

1 lived at mine for 2 years for free virtually, probably brought small amounts of groceries (a couple of times), and paid me $500 when he sold a car at one point and came into $3800. Within a short time, he was broke again, and reliant on his unemployment money, and back to getting cash off me every week as well as being fed, having his washing done, showers, air conditioning luxury, and paying for his cigarettes too.

2 Once sanded and half painted, the roof of my car, but never finished it, like anything else he ever offered to do for me.

3. Would 'help me' at my work in the evenings, (I was working alone and split shifts), this would consist of him vacuuming 3 mats, all of about 15 minutes. The rest of the time, he would sit out the back in his car, smoking like a chimney, and harassing me every five minutes, coming in and trying to start a fight. By the way, he was not consistent with his help either, I would be lucky if he actually helped more than 3 nights of the week.

4. He inherited $5K at one point, and again, he brought a couple of lots of groceries or takeaways, used the money to pay his bills he said, but it didn't last long at all and was gone in a matter of a month, all whilst he was collecting his unemployment, living rent/responsibility free, and also selling car parts that 'he found'.

5. I thought his behaviour might improve somewhat when he came into money, (without the pressure of being constantly broke) but I was wrong, he still acted like a jerk.

6. I foolishly took him to another work site I was at sole charge, and he repeatedly stole from there, admitting to me later. It didn't seem to matter to him that there were cameras there, oddly, I almost felt he wanted me to get in trouble for it. Add to this, he would insist on going to 'help me get it done quicker' yet his antics and abuse made that virtually impossible. I was forced to tell him that he could no longer accompany me there, such was the massive stress he caused.

7. He found an old van and paid $90 for it, asked me if I wanted it for a project, (which I gave him back immediately) and I proceeded to keep it and work on getting parts for it for 2 years, until I could afford to get it licensed. After that 2 years was up, he was staying back at his elderly parents, working flat out on his own car project, (another story entirely) and announced that he was ready to do some work on my van for me, and I was to bring it up so he could. After which I could go about taking it for inspection and hopefully getting it licensed.

8 I took the van up to him, since he was pressuring me to get it licensed finally, so I booked it in for an inspection a week after he had it up there, and he exploded at me for putting so much pressure on him, yet he had insisted I get the process of inspection started!

9. Once he knew the inspection date, he left the van sitting for a week, and worked on it at the weekend, (2 days before the inspection), all he had to do, was put seat covers on, do a few bolts up underneath, and change the door hinges on one side. I offered to help get it done, and he refused, raging at me.

10. Of course the van wasn't ready, so I had to pay another $60, (after the initial $90) to take it over the pits again for a second inspection after the required repair amendments were done, he raged at me about this, yet finally got the small amount of stuff finished, and took it back over the pits, it passed, so I was ordered to come up that day, and license it so we could take it for a drive together to celebrate.

11 I drove up there, waited in line, and paid out $400 to license it, then drove back to pick him up and we drove to his nearby city of choice to sit amongst all the Swedish backpackers he likes to rave on about, (their favourites are the same types of van). I think he was OK that day, and didn't rage much, although later on at night he did. Some time later, he threw it back at me, that I owed him around $20k for 'fixing the van'.

Pfffft what a joke. I had done and paid for most of the work on it for the 2 years it sat in my driveway, not to mention the hours I put into searching for the right parts.

12. He often stole things and sold them, telling me he 'found them' on roadside recycling.

13. Around 2011 he brought himself a $1700 car, for a project, without telling me, all whilst living off me, and collecting the unemployment. Guess who had to help him out financially even more because he was paying it off? He put this car at his parents, and proceeded to work fanatically on it every time he was on a 'hiatus' from me, (after another of his rages and breakup activations). To this day, he has never finished it, and currently it is still in storage which he also cannot afford on the unemployment payment.

14. Anything he ever did for me, he never finished, it was never consistent, and he would always throw it in my face immediately after he had done it. Meanwhile, I consistently helped him out on a daily basis, unless I was NC during his rage attacks, my help consisted of validating his acting out on the phone, or in person, giving him money for food and cigarettes, buying him clothes, (he was never happy with anything I got him despite getting him things I was told he liked and would fit him). Running around after him when he needed help with yet another drama, (there were many), accompanying him on trips or outings, (none of which were things that were my choice), taking photos for him whilst he sold things on the net, storing things for him that he was 'going to sell', a lot of which I would shift around my property to make room, or tidy up the yard, and ended up having to give them away because he had given up making an effort to sell them on.

15. He has now been unemployed for almost 7 years, and is telling people that I abused him, and it is now my fault he is homeless and unemployed. When I met him, I was told it was his brothers fault he was homeless and unemployed, so the story goes on, as to whoever he can find that he can con into feeling sorry for him. Unfortunately I was one of those people for way too long.

I had to laugh about this. My dBPD/NPDw had a great quick fix for our relationship. She made me do the love languages on line test,  and hers came out as... .wait for it... ."gifts and service"

I knew nothing about BPD then and I assumed that this the best news I had ever heard. I finally knew what I could do to stop the bizarre self hatred and hatred towards me which she exhibited.

I now recognise the (dys)logic in her brain went as follows. "My husband is the cause of my low self esteem, he has never loved me in my love language. That is why I am so miserable". Being a good co-dependent, I bought this phony logic and proceeded to love her daily in gifts and service.

After 2 months of concerted gift giving and service,  I realised it had absolutely no effect whatsoever on her self loathing or self esteem.  Nor did it make any difference to an already eroding relationship.

If any woman I ever get involved with ever mentions that love language thing again, I'm running. Sick to death of hearing about it. That crap made absolutely zero impact other than cause her anger because I tried to help her with a chaotic schedule of 5 kids all involved in activities while she tried to get her life in order. Then, as I was being painted black and being cut out of her life and kids schedule so very slowly, I would ask, beg to help. Constantly told don't worry about it, or I got it. I would simply say, well, please let me know. She never did. So, I stopped asking.Then she would have the nerve to b___ at me for not helping, so I would volunteer to help, she would then say, don't worry about it, or I got it... wow. Totally made me feel like a POS.

It sounds like yours has a healthy dose of NP as well. Is she very high functioning?. Jeez, I fell into a similar pattern!

Very much so. Excellent VB coach. Focused on the game. Every thing else?... .hit or miss

Mine bought me a futon we had seen while Christmas shopping after my divorce. I loved it because it was small and could fold up. Twin sized. As he gifted it to me he was careful to mention he only got the 6" mattress as that's all he could afford. Over and over I heard that.

Twice in the next few months he dismantled it in the middle of the night during an argument. The arguments were caused by him wanting to discuss the relationship because he didn't feel loved. Because I needed to sleep and offered to talk in the morning instead I was ungrateful and no good and he was going to take that away from me.

One of those nights as he was taking to apart - he always wanted me to help too lol - he was ranting about the food he had just bought for me. So I went downstairs and packed it up. The look on his face when he came down with the first piece of the futon was priceless.

And he never actually packed it in his car and left. It was like he was expecting me to throw myself at his feet and beg him to stay and it confused him when I didn't.

Another thing he'd often do was tell me he had already called a friend to help him leave my house, or handle me when he got me so frustrated I would scream. Sometimes he made those calls in front of me. He was always insistent that he had nothing to hide and had given me his passwords. I got into his phone account and it turned out he wasn't even making a call, he was just pretending. It was all a way of controlling me.

 




Love Languages BS makes it look like if the man just buys the woman stuff and puts on a 'face' to sit and 'listen' to her; then she is complete. On the flip, if a woman would just fawn all over her man, constantly touching, stroking his ego, and having sex; he is complete.

The only complete thing about "Love Languages" is that it's complete crap.

There is more to a relationship than getting flowers and gifts on the days Hallmark says to give them, and putting out whenever he wants. This worthless book keeps people in bad relationships by guilting them into thinking if they are not "providing their SO's *Love Language*" then YOU are to blame for the failure.

OY.

Love languages is a go button for me.

Ex and I saw a 'Biblical Counselor' that was a Narc himself; an arrogant puffed up male chauvinist pig; and used God's Word to manipulate woman into unholy submission to their sick, sin wrecked husbands... .

It was so effed up.

Ok, carefully climbing down off my soap box... .

Oh geez, my ex-HUSBAND did that love languages stuff with me. Once he realized the marriage was failing, after years of treating me a certain (not so good) way, he did an about face and found forums and articles. He was constantly sending me stuff and insisting I do quizes to improve our relationship. I never went to therapy WITH him but I did go prior to our divorce, and my T felt he had NPD traits. Once I was divorced others said that about him as well - they just never wanted to say so while we were together. Except for one coworker who originally thought he was just a customer by the way he treated me - that said a lot right there.

GoingPlaces,

You wrote:

"Ex and I saw a 'Biblical Counselor' that was a Narc himself; and arrogant puffed up male chauvinist pig; and used God's Word to manipulate woman into unholy submission to their sick, sin wrecked husbands... .

It was so effed up."

Everyone BEWARE:

My NPD/BPD husband went to see a female therapist who caused a very severe escalation of Passive Aggressive abuse ( worst than I had ever experienced) and destructive BPD behaviors. In fact, my husband's behavior became extremely psychotic for about a 3 week period.  The woman worked for a Christian Psychotherapy place but the religious issue wasn't the problem for us.  She simply was not experienced enough to recognize NPD or any other character disorder and hence, put me in grave danger. I eventually had to call that office and explain to them what was happening.  However, it didn't help. 

The counselor painted me as an abusive controlling wife and she even encouraged my husband to report me to the police if I became violent or aggressive.  He had convinced her that he was a poor victim who had been abused by everyone all his life and the counselor responded by giving him assertiveness training.  Just what every abuser needs! 

Please heed my warnings because during his assertiveness training,  my husband would aggressively bait me into an altercation and if I got angry at all he would accuse me of being abusive. Even though I wouldn't respond or walked away he would chase after me accusing me of ignoring him, never having anything to say, always walking away and neglecting him and not wanting to face the truth. He would say, ' I see how you are, you're just like the counselor said, you avoid me because you cant have control and bully me and you don't like me being strong."   He would scream horrible things at me ( that were projections of himself) that he knew would upset me and anger me.  If I locked myself in my office, he would pound on the door screaming for me to open it.

Based on my experience, I would not recommend that anyone living with this type of partner suggest counseling without being present in the sessions. If you don't want to attend the sessions but are still living at home with them, then don't suggest counseling at all until you leave and at that point, you shouldn't care anyway.  I know this sounds very radical and perhaps unreasonable but please consider what happened to me.   At the point that my husband decided to go to therapy it was only because I was leaving and of course, he was attempting to patronize me.  I didn't attend any his sessions because I didn't care at that point about mutual counseling ( we had already tried that a few times unsuccessfully) but I was still living with him.  I had hoped he would get help and there was a small glimmer of hope in me that it would help but I never imagined that he would become a delusional and psychotic passive aggressive.  My husband is a covert abuser and the scariest thing that occurred right after his first session was after I had just cleaned the bathroom, he smeared feces all over the walls, shower curtain and the freshly washed white rug and when he brushed his teeth, he spit the contents of his mouth all over the sink basin and counter.  I was so freaked out by the whole scene that I thought I was going to die from sheer panic.   I called a shelter for help, called a woman I knew for advice and I had to pretend for two days that I didn't notice what was in the bathroom.  I had to place plastic drop cloth over the rug and counters just so I could take a shower and then remove it so that my husband wouldn't know that I was working around his abuse.   I had to brush my teeth and style my hair in our kitchen after he left for work.  Two days later, he finally 'quietly' cleaned the bathroom one morning but he didn't have time to wash the rug and curtain. A few days later he came to me in a very boyish demeanor and said that he was planning to wash the rug and curtain but never mentioned why or what he had done. I pretended that it was 'normal' but in 18 years, he's never once offered to wash anything or clean anything.  It was obvious that the little guilty boy living inside of him was trying to fix what he broke.   

There were many other very scary incidents and he truly looked possessed by evil. The escalation always occurred the day before his therapy and for two days after it.  I stayed in a hotel from Sunday until Wednesday ( his therapy was on Mondays) every week until he quit going to therapy.

It was always difficult for my husband and I to seek counseling together because he would ask me to make the appt and then he would get angry at the therapist and blame it on the fact that the therapist liked me more and hated him.  If he made the appt and we went together, it was the same result and he would quit going and blame it on the fact that he didn't like the therapist.  I hate to sound so jaded and hopeless but honestly, I just don't see how there can be a winning combination that will produce a positive outcome.  It's always been a no win, no gain experience for me. My husband just wanted a very passive counselor who would just charge him to listen to him whine and brag about himself.  Anytime a therapist would ask him to write anything down or practice a certain type of dynamic with me, he would get angry and quit.

If for any reason you want to seek therapy with your BPD spouse, make sure that you find someone with specialized training in character disorders and speak to them on the phone before you go with your spouse.  I'm not exaggerating the importance of this.  Your safety and well being are at risk. 

WOW Leaving, I am so sorry.

My ex made sure that when he 'spoke to someone' (never saw a licensed professional, only 'church counselors) that they were easy to manipulate.  It made him look like HE was the good guy, and it made him look like HE was 'trying'... .and made me out to be the bad guy. (which he did our entire 25 years of marriage).

Those people are NOT equipped to deal with REAL personality disorders.

My doctor told me that the 'Biblical counselor' we saw did more damage to me than she could calculate.

Telling me to NEVER speak to anyone about what happened... .or "I was an unforgiving disobedient wife".

SO, me and my PTSD and depression, remained silent... .for a year... .until I was ready to pull the trigger.

Then I talked.

My doc's emotions went from weeping in the exam room, to fury at what this CLOWN counselor said.

He went so far as to tell the ex HE thought "i was just jealous of his porn addiction'... .What the heck?

So yeah, don't waste your time seeing someone at church.

They are not trained or equipped to deal with real monsters.

I can relate to this on so many levels. I paid the bills, she kept what she made and never cleaned.

Going,

Jealous... .oh boy, the therapists are cut from the same cookie cutter curriculum.

Oh yes, my husband's therapist told him that I was jealous of his good looks and youthful appearance and that is why I'm such an abusive wife and hate him going to his yoga class.  i'm throughly convinced now how dangerous psychotherapists can be.  I've been through a nightmare and like you I have PTSD. 

It takes immense strength and maturity to live with my spouse until I can get out of here.  The things my husband says and accuses me of and the validation he gets from his therapist are quite upsetting to me but, I know the truth and that she isn't aware of who my husband truly is and I have to just let it all roll off of me.  Even so, I can't help but want to tell her and show her what a day in my life really looks like.  I wish I could tell her that I don't care about him going to yoga ( please!  how silly is that?) but what I do mind is that he always puts himself and his pleasure first and neglects all the adult responsiblities.   I would also tell her that her counseling has given my husband EVEN MORE permission to abandon his adult responsibilities and dump them on me because he now believes that he is EVEN MORE entitled to put his pleasure first.  Like another poster, I was the one who had to handle the finances and all the  housework and all the adult stuff while my husband went to work every day like a teen with no responsibilities.  I also had to handle all of my husband's passive aggressive catastrophes.  This past weekend, the cable company came to disconnect the cable. I didn't want cable TV but my husband did so I told him that as long as HE handles that one bill and I don't have to be involved, then I don't care what he does.  He can't even pay the one bill and he ignores their calls on his phone. 

Two months ago, he came to me demanding new equipment for our company that would cost about ten grand.  I didn't have that kind of money and I explained to him that I needed to budget for that and can't come up with that on last minute's notice.  My husband got quiet ( covert anger was brewing) and walked out of the house.  I knew something awful was about to happen and I was so nervous.  Two days later, I received a call from him.  He had totaled our trailer and all our equipment.  This wasn't the first time he's done that. He totaled my car on my birthday and blamed me suggesting that it was because he had to buy me a birthday present and if it wasn't my birthday, he wouldn't have wrecked. He hates feeling obligated to do anything.  I never received a birthday gift ever again- since 1999- and he tells me every year that the reason is because I was so ungrateful that year and angry at him for buying the present that he did. When I remind him  that I was upset about the accident and angry about being blamed for it,  he talks over me, yells and completely ignores me. Ironically, he tells other people that he's planning a big party for me and is going to cook me a special dinner and buy me a wonderful gift.  No one believes that my husband could lie or neglect me as he does.   It's these types of incidents that have  created so much fear and trauma in me. 

When my ex and I first got together she helped me pay off one bill and she never forgot that. Ever.  She paid a few hundred bucks on the final loan on my Harley.  I paid thousands and thousands on her delinquent loans, car, student loans, credit cards, bills her ex create (yeah right... ) and yet she never forgot the few hundred bucks she pitched in to pay off the bike.

And the only reason I paid it off a few month early was to be able to pay (finance I should say) a cruise that we just HAD to go on because they are so much fun.

Like her own father says, she has chapagne tastes on a pepsi budget. And guess who always pays for everything. Eyup. Used to be me but now its the new supply...

I feel sorry for the schmuck

Yup I watched my ex manipulate his counsellor and lie about me. She told me I have to deal with my jealousy of his friends. Bahahahaha. I called them on it and made it clear I wasn't jealous of his friends I was offended by them. That they treat my ex and I like crap and then he comes home and that crap runs downhill onto me. She was gob smacked. She sat there with her chin hanging down and quietly responded to him "yeah you can't do that".

Now he is lying to a new psychologist. He wrote me an email asking me to come to an apt to tell me how I have hurt him. I asked what the parameters  were and if I could voice how I'd been hurt. Then I got delayed and postponed and put off until I put a time limit

On my willingness to attend. At which point I got "you will never see my counsellor because that's were it is all about me. And i don't want you coming there and acting like the victim. I AM the Victim. Yeah right that is where he can lie his face of and play his poor pitiful me card.  :light:

Wow I really needed to write that today as I miss him so much I apart called him. Thanks guys you saved me.

DON'T TOUCH THE KRYPTONITE.!

Whew that was a close one.

"That they treat my ex and I like crap and then he comes home and that crap runs downhill onto me. She was gob smacked. She sat there with her chin hanging down and quietly responded to him "yeah you can't do that".

I have experienced the exact same scenario with my husband's friends.  Actually my husband allows everyone to treat him like crap and then he dumps all his repressed anger on me.  That is a horrible no win situation to get into because if we say something and point out how someone screwed them and how it hurts us and why we're upset, then it's even easier for them to be angry at us and blame us because we're the ones making it an issue.  My husband accused me of being abusive because I would say things like, ' How can you be so stupid and self destructive and irresponsible' when I was angry or panicked. Everything I would say would get filtered through is victim lens.    It's been very difficult to accept that my husband would rather invest his time, money and 'emotions' in people who couldn't care any less about him and prefers to neglect and abuse his wife- the ONLY person who has ever cared about him.  His parents don't even care about him and his mother said to me on our wedding day, ' Well, finally he's not my problem anymore'.

I should  note that one of the reasons I was attracted to my husband in the first place is because I felt sorry for him because he seemed like such a gentle nice man that everyone took advantage of. His parents were so cold and uncaring which only made me want to nurture him even more. We met at work and our coworkers would roll their eyes anytime we talked about my husband.  They would say cruel things about him and it angered me that people could be so cruel. SO, I felt compelled to save the underdog and well, here I am with a terrible mess to clean up.  Despite all the adversity, there is a silver lining.  I've outgrown that codependency by leaps and bounds and I will never ever accept anyone into my life who isn't 'whole' ever again. My marriage hell was just so awful that it truly cured my codependence!  I no longer feel any attachment to my narcissistic mother either.  Emotional freedom feels very healthy :D

My husband's perception of people is so skewed.  He sees everyone else as a nice person and a hero of sorts.  Every single person he associates with has screwed him and he knows that and gets angry in the moment but he continues to cater to them on an off, on and off while beating me up.  The drama is exhausting.  Our business relationships have also been this way and he's dragged me into the trenches of unnecessary drama just because he can't reason and be logical.  My husband stole a lot of money from our company to give to a felon ' friend'  because the felon lost his job for stealing from his employer.  At the time, they were working together at the same company. Because there was a court case, all the employees were warned that if they associated with this man at all, they would be fired.  My husband dismissed the warning, stole money from our company that we couldn't afford to give and gave it to the ungrateful felon who harassed us for even more  and eventually the company fired my husband too.   My husband has put me and our business in harm's way many times. 

"Wow I really needed to write that today as I miss him so much I apart called him. Thanks guys you saved me. "

It's a good idea to keep a daily journal.  Thankfully, I kept one since 1999 and I have more than enough documented experiences to remind me that leaving is absolutely necessary.  I refer to it often!   It's never easy to leave a relationship but it's even more difficult when there is an unhealthy codependent dynamic.  The best thing you can do for yourself right now is to focus on your own emotional healing, establishing healthy relationships and removing the toxic ones and reaping wisdom from your experience that will protect you from choosing an unhealthy partner in the future. 

I could have typed this.

I could go on and on about his father, mother, and brother (along with sil).

Leaches.

I could go on and on about his friends who disrespected me (and him).

And they were leaches.

Crappy people at work, that only want to be around him because he had 'something they wanted'.

Leaches.

So when *I* eliminate these folks from our family (we have 3 kids) to protect MY KIDS from these kinds of people?

*I* look like the bad guy, the monster, etc.

Um, no... .I didn't want my kids to think this kind of soul sucking behavior is normal!

Ex would put so much energy and effort into pleasing / getting noticed by some really crappy people, but turn around and treat me like garbage, ignore me, or spend all of his time online with his picture friends instead of with me.

So thankful I am no longer in this situation.

SO thankful

Mine was 1500 for a lawyer. That I now know she was flirting with!

The list of reminders of my incompetence was so long I couldn't keep up. And right at the top of that list was that damn 1500.

Yes EVERYTHING!

Going,

I commend you on your strength and courage to set those family boundaries despite the backlash.  I know how tough that can be and I don't even  have kids!  Kids make it even more difficult so kudos to you!

This is my first Christmas that I won't be celebrating with anyone ( both my dogs passed this year as well)  and you know what?  As sad as I feel for myself ( I'm having a pity party) I also feel relieved and so glad that I'm not going to be engaging with my in laws and their family or any other toxic vampires.  They are all enablers in denial and they are the reason why my husband is as he is.  If I had children I would never allow them to be alone around them and any contact would be absolutely limited to once or twice a year.  I've never known such spineless selfish people in my life.  Both my husband's parents are narcissists and I think they have other issues too.  Something is definitely rotten in Denmark! 

I don't know what your husband's family was like but maybe there is a similar pattern in your husband's family. My in laws are radical religious Bible thumpers that make G-d accountable for everything in their life.  My husband's  father is an insecure control freak that needs attention all the time and they hit and beat their kids for punishment.  The mother was an only child of a mother who was so emotionally damaged that she was never emotionally available and his father was the son of an abusive alcoholic.  The entire family including nieces/nephews have repressed anger issues and they are all passive-aggressive. It's no wonder his sister died so young from cancer.  She had married a man like our husbands and she was so worn out and full of stress and so alone despite her circle of 'friends' and large family.  She had a huge family and not a single one of them, including my husband, ever bothered to care enough about her to notice that she was sick or stressed or worn down.  how does a person lose 200 lbs and no one notice? My husband hadn't even talked to his sister in over ten years but of course garnered sympathy from everyone upon her death as if he had lost someone special to him.  It was truly disgusting!  When she died, they had a huge shindig at their church.  They are great at memorializing everyone after they are dead but care nothing about them when they are alive.  I have it stated in my will that should I die while still married to my husband, he is not allowed to attend my funeral. 

Leaving, so Christmas will be about doing what you want. So great you are not going to be with the passive aggressive, Bible Thumpers for the holidays. How horrible would that be? My ex in-laws were a nightmare too> I am grateful every year I don't have to sit around the table and listen to the bu... .t. lol

I hear ya!  What are your plans for Christmas?  I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet.  I volunteered as a chef for a mission for two days during T'giving and that really did help take my mind off my own problems but I'm not sure what to do for Christmas.  All I want for a Christmas is a really good job... and a little brick house ... .fa la la la  la la la la   

All the time, and it hurted, because it made me feel like she never really did anything just out of the goodness of her heart. It made me feel like she was doing things just so she could use it as ammo at a later date.

Always.

Every.

Single.

Time.

While raging, one of the things said to me was "you never buy me anything". Sorry, just trying to help you with you and your kids schedules so i could spend more time with you. Sorry, I didnt buy you all you wanted.

BINGO! His handy man skills, which I begged him to stop doing, were obviously a manipulation; he was always trying to convince me that I NEEDED him! I have three adult kids whose chores he was supplanting in addition to lots of friends who HELP me. Even when he was paying back a pittance of what he owed me, paying me back was called HELPING ME: something I should be eternally thankful for.

I think a lot of this behaviour is about their imahe and not about us. They have a need to show themselves as geeat at everything. The perfect person. Even though we wnd up getting put down its not about us as always its about them.

its not only us they do it wit. They do it with family, friends and work colleagues.

I think a lot of it is showing the world how great they are. They have to keep the act going for everyone, including themselves. Kinda like the Wizard of Oz. Almighty wizard until you look behind the curtain, then you see a scared mean little person. Once they let us see behind the curtain they have to paint us black to save their fantasy of being perfect.

This is unfortunately very true. And to find out the truth after 14 years of marriage, is very painful.  It's hard to believe that I didn't know. Why do we as non's stay married to the tin man? Subconsciously we know something was wrong.

It's a bizarre experience to wake up from a BPD trance.

Because theres something wrong with us as well. Non's isnt a term we should use. No sane person tolerates the BS we did. We all knew something was not right, but we made a choice. If it was 2 months, 16 months, 15 years or 48 years, we all knew something was amiss. Why else would it hurt so badly? I keep going back to when I was 25. I never would have or never did put up with the crap with which I put up with in my 16 months. I would have dumped her ass and moved on. Part of being on here is to learn and I have. I have learned that I have issues with enabling, co-dependancy. Caught up in a trauma bond with her. I believe I also try and make it so Im not alone. Probably unresolved from being left by my wife, leaving me with my 2 kids. Working that issue right now and my ex wife and I have made amends and are freely discussing the how's and whys of that. I also think that my low esteem kept me from making boundaries. Who am I kidding, I had none, hence my perdictimate. My ex/gf? I will never get closure from her, dont think I really even need it. She's a deity all to her own. Nothing wrong with her, well, in her mind that is. Shutting the door on that. Bad part of this learning curb is my personality has taken a hit. I used to be so loving and caring, even with my own baggage, I made the effort to help where I could. Now? Dont trust anyone without further verification. Ive put in boundaries that my not be the best, almost draconian, but they work for me right now while I heal. We all tried to be loved and to love, but at some point, it became survival to us. Like the dudes rowing the boat to the drummer. Steady beat (things are normal) until its battle time. The speed of the drumming picks up as does the rowing. However, if you tire or get burnt out, your whipped. Who needs that crap in their life? Seriously... .

I don't know about online therapists but you may want to contact a local domestic abuse shelter or other organization and ask them if they have counselors available or can refer you to one. Although most shelters are for women, the counselors are aware that men can be victims as well.  Warning about online therapists-  if they are truly professional therapists that specialize in character disorders then they will be expensive.  The other so called therapists are not always 'good' and I had a horrible experience with one that was quite disturbing. 

I was started to being devaluated from the moment I saw behind that curtain. I didn't know anything about BPD back then and I tried to help her. I convinced her to see a therapist but then there were so many triggers. I had become a trigger myself. She would ask me: Will you love me after that? What if I don't be so childish?

I was also afraid myself of this. That she might change. I was trying to support her by flowers, gifts etc. But afterwards we broke up. During a last conversation with her she told me that I hadn't done certain things to make her feel that I cared. And if I really have loved her, I would have thought of them.

I gave my whole self to her. I also don't think that I will trust anyone so much. I feel so sorry, even now 4.5 months later.

I hear ya Alex. That stuff came flying out at me at the final rage. I was shocked by those very same words. Still second guessing myself, but jeez Im so much better now. Im finally getting there.

I brought her home flowers,  cooked her dinner,  bought her things,  took her on a date once a week... .all to be told that I don't make her feel special.

YES.  YES.  A thousand times, YES.

And the most frustrating thing has been this:  he is only willing to help when the help is HIS idea.  Which is not great.  Because 9 times out of 10, I don't want/need help with the thing he decides to help with, but then I am reminded of it/obligated by it.  The flip side of this equation is that I absolutely, positively, unequivocally, canNOT ask for help.  He becomes immediately resentful, sullen, accuses me of being dependent on him, etc.  It doesn't matter how seldom I ask for help (and believe me, I had to learn the hard way, not to ask for any kind of help unless there is truly no alternative.) 

This goes not only for things that need to be done, but also when it comes to leveling with him emotionally, getting emotional support.  Forget it.  Yes, he is capable of sympathy.  Empathy?  No.  Sometimes when I am not doing a good enough job of hiding that I am upset, he might ask, "What's wrong?"  But it's a big mistake to actually tell him, because he will listen to my problem but instead of offering something supportive or validating, he will say, "Why are you dumping all your angst on me?"  Or "You are involving me in your stuff" or my all-time favorite:  "Maybe you could try being less honest with me."

Really interested in EnlightenMe's response as well as others--they're trying to show everyone they are perfect. In my final "text battle" that was 10 weeks after abandonment, he was telling me all the things I had done wrong in the relationship. I responded, "I'm not perfect; no one is, neither are you." Deafening silence. Someone in there--whatever schema it might be, believes their own lies.

4 months out and still feel like i couldnt do anything right.

Yes I agree.  It took me a long time to realise the role I played in the toxic dynamic. And it is quite confronting to understand the roles of caretaker or co-dependent when we play them. Recovery is possible and it's a daily challenge to do so.

I also recognise the imagery of the rowers. Fall behind slightly, get tired - any deviation from perfection and they whip us.

What I have realised and did not know before is that we have a choice to be whipped or not. And when we choose not to, or walk away from the anger,  we are saying. "No that's not acceptable." If we stay in the conflict  and participate in the whipping,  they've won the battle.

Moselle, regarding choice, it was near impossible for me to avoid conflict because if I did, my husband would get angry that I wasn't getting angry.  It was just that simple.  My husband uses me to express his anger and I won't go there with him but I know that he will then become even more angry- bordering on psychosis.  It was always a no-win for me.  The de-escalation practices that I was taught by my abuse counselors did not work in my situation.  I had to 'shock' my husband in order to make him stop and get on a different thinking tract.  For example, when he was baiting me and badgering me, I would suddenly shout, ' Oh my gosh!  I think I left something on the stove' and then I would run out of the room and by the time I got back, he was calm and didn't even want to pursue any conservation.  So far, this has worked every time.

Leaving, I think you are so strong. It takes real courage to face the abuse and create and escape system that works - well done! I gather from your name that you've chosen to leave your situation. How have you gotten to that point?

Hi Moselle,

Thank you for the encouragement.  I'm getting stronger every day but it's SO HARD!

Oh yes, I am leaving. It's not easy still living at home because my husband vacillates from denial to spewing hateful ugly accusations at me.   Up and down all the time.   My husband isn't always here and I'm not always here either which makes life a bit more bearable while I'm trying to remain as independent as possible from him.  We own a business together so that keeps us hinged for now.  I'm also at the mercy of my financial situation and the economy--unemployed and broke.  Even so, I'm still able to imagine myself being alone in a new home one day soon.  I believe everything happens for a reason and happens when it is the right time. Soon, I hope!

I've ridden the roller coaster of stay-leave and suffered all the anger and compassion and sympathy and empathy for my very disturbed husband until I finally reached the point where I can't even imagine staying anymore.  I accept him as he is and know there isn't anything I can do to help him.  He's got family- a very enabling one at that so, I'm sure he'll survive.  Enuff is enuff is enuff! I can't go on, I can't go on anymore no!  ( wasn't that a Donna Summer song?)

Yes it is hard. Hang in there |iiii There is lots of happiness ahead