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This time I was actually sitting in the courtroom. Both attys went in chambers. Took about 15 minutes. The judge did not want the hearing today ? The problem seems to be that if I get the extra time outside of a temp order ex will owe me child support and I believe the judge wants to make sure that is not the reason. My atty seemed to think the judge was pretty clear about it. He continued our temp order with me having the additional time. S16 went from A,B,C, and D last year to 5 A's this year. Judge wants to see what happens for the rest of the year. Judge also wants co parent counseling to continue during this time.

I felt like I had to agree. I am getting the extra time so that is the positive. I believe co parent counseling, after three meetings, is a waste of time. I get accused of abuse , micromanaging  blah blah blah... .

My atty said that he was not going to charge me for the hour meeting last week to prepare and the hours he put in for this hearing so it didn't cost me any money. Five hours at 400 per is nothing to sneeze at.

My atty asked me about a few things that ex's atty said in chambers. They were lies and I told him so. He asked if I could prove it and I said yes. I have emails from ex saying the complete opposite.

*Sigh*

Because heaven forbid a mother have to pay child support if that can at all be avoided.   

The thing is, the judge shouldn't make the presumption that you would have to be granted more time on a permanent basis without actually hearing the case, and then avoid hearing the case because of it. (Sorry, I'm irritated about this outcome on your behalf.) But, at least you are getting the extra time. So the needs of the children are being met.

I filed in August 2012 and still haven't been heard so I am irritated to say the least. I have copies of every homework of our now S11. Last two years he did over 90% of all his school work when with me. This year it went down to 84% but only 3 were done at moms that were complete and correct. He actually has had arguments with her because she gives him answers that are wrong and insists he put those answers down on his homework.  It's not going to change much from now until the end of the year. Ex is also trying to get S11 diagnosed with a learning disability. She did that when he was in kindergarten and it was changed in third grade. She needs to blame him for his failures in school and wants it changed back. The thing is he is has great grades. I feel bad for him because of the mixed signals he gets from his mom. He is too young to have to deal with that.

Of all the things that court orders, coparenting counseling is the one that irritates me most! What a downer that you have to continue. What does that have to do with your kids doing their homework? No other court mandates counseling for its plaintiffs and defendants. Gah! Shakes fist.

But great that your L was reasonable about not charging you. Small consolation, but like you said, at $400/hour that matters.

I think the child support thing is not necessarily about moms paying child support, it's about making sure that you are motivated by the right reasons (doing what is best for the kids) than it is about dodging child support. Judges hate to see parents being motivated to rearrange visitation for financial reasons (understandably).

That sounds good.  The coparenting counseling isn't a waste because you'll have another witness.  Unless the counselor is a moron.

I think this is a big win.  You are going to continue the extra time.  The grades are fabulous.  I think very few parents in normal situations can get their kids to get all A's.  Way to go!

We went to three counseling meetings already. I am very certain he "got" ex had some kind of issue. Ex went off about me trying to micro manage her house and immediately went into telling me what I should be doing at my house. Those kind of things used to be interesting to observe but I am tired of listening to it anymore.

We have a meeting this Monday. I am thinking of laying down a boundary. If ex tells three lies I am getting up and leaving. My position is the court can not order me to go somewhere to be abused by such nonsense.

The last meeting the counselor was talking to ex about how to parent in her place. He talked to her about scheduling homework and consequences. He gave several examples on how to do it. I just sat there and watched and listened. I noticed ex was focused in to what he was saying and looked positive. I realized later that the journal she left in our house back in 2007 has two pages from 1989 explaining how she was going to a therapist to figure ways to parent. There were examples written down and mention of consequences. It's all in ex's handwriting. That is 15 years ago and she is still having the same issues as before ! IT AIN'T GONNA CHANGE. I hear that Talking Heads song "same as it ever was, same as it ever was... .

I ended up canceling my coparenting counseling too. Instead of just getting up and leaving, which might make it look like you are flipping the middle finger to the court order, what about starting the session with your boundary: "I am willing to do this under the condition that I do not have to listen to lies about me. If lies are told, I plan to get up and leave. I'll bring proof of those lies to the next meeting and we can discuss why lying has a negative impact on coparenting and sets a bad example for the kids."

In other words, give your ex a heads up that you have a plan for dealing with her lies. If you hear her tell a lie, ask her if she has any way to prove that it's true, and then jump up and say that you have something to show the opposite of what she is claiming.

If you are accused of walking out of the coparenting sessions during your upcoming hearing, you can explain that you gave the counselor reasonable conditions for your participation, and continued to come back as long as ex did not tell lies.

lnl that sounds like a good plan. I am fairly certain that the counselor does see that ex is the problem and he did talk to ex about boundaries so I think me setting a reasonable boundary is a good course of action.

I like how you said how the kids are being effected.

My thought was the same as LnL.  Leaving doesn't look good for you.  It looks like you were afraid of something.  I think setting a boundary ahead of time is better.  Or calmly countering a lie.

I've found the coparent counseling at this late stage in the game, after four years of a standing order and with ex meddling, to be a waste of time AND like rubbing sea salt in an open wound.  A painful reminder that ex has gotten away with murder and has serious issues.  Neither of which have been seen by the court.  My fear is the same, court will say to keep going.

Yeah, I think the calm part is key. All business, no emotion. "Ex, what you said is not true. I plan to bring several emails to our next meeting to demonstrate how this is not true, and we can discuss it then. If we can use our time here to discuss real issues and facts, I think this counseling could be productive. But until the lies are sorted out, this is not an effective use of time or money. See you next week."

I kinda wish I could watch  :)

Ex sent an email today letting me know that all this was my fault because she remembers telling me that if I took her to court she would have to follow the court order strictly ? These are the kind of things that make me wonder what the H*** is going on when the boys are over there. Momtara I know you are hearing this loud and clear.

I have been calling her residence for the last two days trying to talk to the boys. Well, S16 downloaded an app from google that lets him call my cell. Apparently the house phone is missing again. I can't use my cell to call his computer because it is only one way.

What about setting up a free Google voice account? It will assign you a phone number, and you can actually text directly from that Google voice number via your computer to another computer, or to a mobile phone. I can't remember exactly, but I think if your son set one up, you can arrange so that he gets notifications on his computer when you're trying to reach him. Pop up notifications that show up on his desktop, even if he does not use Google mail, etc. You don't use the Google voice number to replace your cell number, it's just a backup.

So you basically use your computer to call either his computer or, if he had a cell phone, you could communicate with his cell. Not sure that solves the real problem, which is ex trying to stop you from communicating with the boys, but it's a workaround if they are on their computers. You can also sync the Google voice number to work from your phone, but then it gets into the hassle of using minutes from your cell provider, etc.

Also, about your ex. Isn't she the one who asked for the coparenting counseling? If I remember correctly.

I did not ask for the counselor so I assume she did.

The phone issue I have come to accept for the time being. We still haven't gone in front of a judge and the documentation of my calls never going through is another piece of the puzzle. Whenever ex calls the boys when they are with me she gets to talk to them.

Phone games are very common around here. At the ages the boys are it really should be a non-issue. My DH used to have it in the parenting plan that he was to have regular c phone ontact with the kids and that they could call whenever they wanted. The minimum contact allowed in the plan was one phone call per week at a specific day and time. So DH spent three years getting only at most the bare minimum one call per week. Now that we have cusody the court order gives her a bare minimum of three calls per week and she's allowed to text them daily. If when you go to court and you ask for mandated phone calls be prepared that this means both parties will likely have to comply. In my case it's not that. We want to keep them from their mother, but since she's completely inflexible about call times and we have the kids 90% of the time it's a huge pain.

But back to my original point: she's hiding the house phone from a 16 year old?

Yes she hides the phone. Feb of 2014 the phone disappeared for 5 weeks. That was the longest stretch. They call me every day when they are with her but don't call her when they are with me. She complained about it Jan 2014. I replied that I always give my cell to the boys whenever they ask. I also have a land line they can use.

I gave my atty my phone records with all the calls that were made from the start of school (Sept 2013) to March 2014. I send emails whenever I can't talk to them for a week or more. I suspect my email is engagement for her.

Do you mind if I ask what the kids think of this? I really think this should come up in co-parent counseling if it hasn't already.

There are at least half a dozen messaging apps that would help you stay in touch with someone who is on a computer. I also think sending her emails is engagement. At the same time though, it's also documentation.

My SS19 used an online video game for contact when BM took his phone away. If your kids are gamers, you might ask them about it.   

This is my view of your coparent counseling too. It is not  going  to change for the better the pwPD.

As for phone use, my x2bh can call three times a day.  ( down from unlimited , "reasonable times"  ... 2hrs, down from four x's a day). He uses all the allotments.   Even on the days that the kids are going to/ coming from his place. The  times have limits  but it is I who has to moniter each time.  Last week, D had a friend over, so when he called he stayed right in the time limit.  Then one night D and I are watching a movie, he calls, movie on pause... .he wouldn't get off the phone even when D said bye many times. This is so blantent that the call was used to irritate me.

Just last time when D was at her dads, she texted to see if I can call. I did but then she did not answer.  

Later I call and she sees the cell phone light up . She says to me that she does not remember turning the volume down on her phone. She repeats it puzzled by it.  I did not mention that her dad did that. But I said you are not the one who turned the volume down.   I document this all too, to give to my L , for the record , so he sees the pattern of behavior.  To use in my defense later... .

Let me suggest - based on my own experience - a lot of trial and error - an approach to this.

First, bring a notebook, and when Ex is talking, write down anything she says which isn't true or is misleading or unfair.  Write it down as close to word-for-word as you can.  That helped me to patiently listen and not interrupt, and it also gave me a good record of any lies or accusations.

Then when it's your turn, no matter what the topic has become, or what question the therapist has asked you, go back to what your ex said that wasn't true.  If the therapist says, ":)avid, how are things going for you?", you say, "I'll get to that in a minute, but first I need to address something Ms. David said just now."  Referring to your notes:  "She said, 'Last Friday David did X.'  I want to make it clear that I have never done X, and that Ms. David was not with me last Friday so she has no way to know what I did, and that she is making that accusation here in front of you, without any evidence to back it up.  I am not here to listen to accusations and false statements - that's not the purpose of this session.  So if there are more accusations or false statements, I will end this session and let my attorney know exactly what happened so she can take the appropriate actions such as informing the court what went on here tody."  Then stop and look at the therapist - not at your ex.

Looking at the therapist communicates that it is his job to keep order and make the session productive.  By allowing your ex to make false statements and accusations, he isn't doing his job.  (But of course it must be a pretty difficult job... .)

By making that statement, and then stopping, you are focusing the conversation on what you said - the boundary you laid down - "If X happens then I will do Y."

If the therapist is good, he will take up your challenge, and apply that ground rule both ways - nobody make accusations or false statements.  If he's not, and he lets her continue - and I personally wouldn't give her three strikes - then he's not doing his job, and you end the session and let him know that in the future you will be glad to meet again if there are ground rules but you won't sit there and be accused of things you didn't do.

Your lawyer might not like this, by the way, but it might elevate your ex's behavior issues in a useful way.  You will definitely want to inform your attorney exactly what happened so she doesn't find out from somebody else and think you acted rashly.  (Or you could even let her know ahead of time what you are going to do.)

A slightly different take on the same idea.

(Great minds think alike.)

I have been hypothetically devising ways of getting out of my coparent counseling.  But there has been some good, I have been able to address issues in front of the counselor that have to do with treatment for our S10 who is/was ODD/Asperger's and now conduct disorder diagnosed.  Ex claims to be his "advocate" and routinely finds fault with how school addresses his incidents claiming that "S10 is no being dealt with fairly," by school.  I advocate for school and S10 to get help.  Ex continues to find ways of putting up roadblocks.

But, I have also been working with a Behavioral Support Consultant (BSC) through S10's IEP and Wraparound Services.  Very quickly after we got the BSC, ex avoided all contact.  It was as soon as ex realized she would not be running the show and she had to listen.  So I have been working with the BSC for about 8 months, behind the scenes, so ex could not interfere and S10 could get some extra support at school.  BSC has confided in me on many occasions the concerns with ex.  Recently she went further and asked me, "do you know what borderline personality is?"  I of course said yes.  BSC would go further telling me that she had much experience with BPD and that she saw this in her first meeting with ex.  

With the counseling, and I can also reflect on this through numerous couple's counseling sessions, it is only ethical that the therapist continue with boundaries/issues that the clients bring up.  Meaning, it would be unethical for the counselor to address ex as having issues, at least not directly, but me/you as the ex spouse have to bring these issues up in front of the Dr. rather than the Dr. bringing them up on his own.  My BSC had told me this, that maybe the Dr. is waiting for me to stand up and say what exactly is wrong, even including that Ex has an undiagnosed mental illness and that makes it difficult if not impossible to coparent with, and that this is having adverse emotional impact on S10.  Until now, no one (other than ex's mother who admitted the grandmother was BPD) has mentioned borderline personality to me.  

So I'm wondering if your sessions should be even more direct and open about boundaries, etc?  Realistically the boundaries discussed with the coparent counselor and in front of ex may have little benefit.  But, if there is a report issued back to the court you will have at least put everything out in the open free for being documented back to court.  

This is some of my thinking for my next session.      

When we separated, and I knew that the kids (then 8 and 10) would be in their BPD mom's care at times, I gave them both phones for Christmas.  (We separated suddenly and unexpectedly a week before Christmas.)

I put the phones on my plan and gave them as Christmas presents, partly because I knew the kids would be thrilled, and also because I thought that would reduce the risk that their mom would take them away.  It worked.

Starting on that day, my kids know they can call me any time, and if I call them I expect them to pick up.  They are free to call their mom too, and she calls them when they're with me (a little more often than I wish, but oh well).

That's thinking out of the box and a great idea  |iiii

Yeah, there are a bunch of ways to communicate - text, e-mails, Facebook messages - I think phone has advantages because it's more intimate - but maybe the best strategy is to get as many ways of communicating in place as possible, so any attempt to keep the kids from talking with you is difficult.

I have one kid who usually calls, one who mostly uses texts, one who uses Facebook's message application, and one I write letters to (yeah, really, on paper and sending it through the mail).  All fine - the key is to communicate.

I've noticed that quite a few of our members lose this battle - or maybe I should say, decide not to win - early in the process - quite often men when the kids spend most of their time with Mom.  If Mom tries to dictate when the kids can talk to their absent dad, she gets her way, and Dad gives up the moral high ground and hopes things will get better later.

I think that's a bad strategic choice - and again, it often happens early, when Dad is reeling from the craziness and hoping to make peace.  Unfortunately it often leads to alienation between the kids and Dad (or in some cases it's the other way around - BPD Dad is blocking contact with Mom).

I haven't had to involve the court in this much - in our settlement it said something very simple about both parents encouraging the kids to talk to the other.  I think my gut decision early on to maintain daily contact with the kids was important... .

Wow! That's great, Scraps. I remember you posting about the problems with your ex and trying to get services from the school, but hadn't seen an update in a while. It sounds like things are going well. Just having a positive advocate involved can make such a big difference (Sorry, david, for the slight hijack here... .)


I also think it's ok to contact the coparenting counselor separately, unless there is something in the contract that says otherwise. You have to make sure you aren't triangulating, though, because that will just make you look bad. After my coparenting counselor debacle, I eventually ended up with a parenting coordinator, and kept things strictly professional with her for the first few months, but when I became worried about N/BPDx behaviors that could negatively impact S13, I called her directly. She seemed to be almost waiting for it and wasted no time agreeing with me that she had concerns too. She pointed out that most of her parenting order contracts were 2 years long, but I had changed mine to only a year long. I told her that no offense to her skills or training, because I knew she was excellent, but I did not think N/BPDx could switch gears and cooperate with me, and did not foresee us having a PC for 2 years because it would not make things better. I used "emotional dysregulation" and "black and white thinking" and "walking on eggshells" as terms that said everything I wanted to say, and she was the one who brought up the words personality disorder. I asked her if she had any recommendations for how to continue, and her response was to keep doing exactly what I was doing. So I did. And she ended up becoming the key testimony for the long slow process toward full custody.


I was wondering the same thing.  But Scrapps, don't you find it hard to stay emotionally grounded in coparenting counseling? My ex was so smooth and charismatic and had a special talent for throwing me off balance. I would find it easy to say the first sentence, but once N/BPDx started to counter my comment, it would be difficult to stay grounded.

One more advantage of note-taking:  It helps me discipline myself, and listen to exactly what the other party is saying, without interrupting.

I think it also shows both the other party and the mediator that what happens is being recorded.  Although these sessions may be confidential, and it's usually best to respect that, that doesn't make it OK to make false statements and accusations.  If everyone understands that what is said is being recorded - or at least any accusations that are made are being written down - that may help everyone involved - including the mediator - to up their game.

I think coparenting counselers often makes clients sign forms waiving confidentiality. And many CP counselors are part of the whole therapeutic jurisprudence machine, meaning they are trained in forensic psychology and how things work in court. Mine had a whole clause about how much she charged for testifying in court    I think they know going into this racket that the odds of them being subpoenaed are pretty high.

Yeah - one of the mediators we used made it clear that the only result possible was a settlement we both signed - nothing else could come out of the process that could be used in court, and she couldn't be subpoenaed.

Still, I was glad I had a written record of the accusations my wife made during those sessions, because they helped me to prepare for other steps in the process.  For example, when my wife was deposed - questioned under oath - my lawyer asked her several questions based on what she had said in mediation.  My lawyer didn't say, "In mediation you said... .", she just said, ":)id Mr. Matt do X?", because in mediation my wife had accused me of X.

That forced my wife to either back down from those accusations, or lie under oath.  If she lied under oath (as she did) then we could find evidence and, and if we went to trial, prove that she had made false statements under oath - a crime.  It forced her to settle before trial rather than risk that.

Getting the lies and accusations down on paper - even if it's your own notes and not something that can be used in court - is a good strategy I think.

It's the analog version of holding up a video camera.

It might also work proactively, you never know. Maybe she won't tell lies. Another Christmas miracle!

Yes, I think someone taking notes openly is likely to draw out better behavior in all the participants - even the note-taker.  I find it much easier to avoid interrupting the other party when I'm taking notes, for example, and since I'm holding up that standard - "I am writing down what you say and if it's not true or not fair I won't continue this meeting" - that also reminds me of the need to give the benefit of the doubt - not to make any accusations I'm not 100% sure of.

It's not quite the same as video or audio recording, because my notes will always be flawed.  But I have found it to be pretty effective... .here's an example:

Before deciding on divorce, my wife and I met with a marriage counselor (actually the fourth one we had tried!).  My wife chose her - affiliated with my wife's church - but I bought in completely and felt good about this therapist.  She met with us both the first time, and got a good understanding of the basic issues, then proposed to meet with us individually - my wife first.  When it was my turn, she began the meeting by reading from the DSM-IV - the section on BPD - and asked if those criteria sounded like my wife, and I said most of them did.  This was the first time I ever heard of BPD!

She told me, "I'm not qualified to diagnose, but from what you have told me it's likely your wife has BPD."  She recommended "Stop Walking On Eggshells", which ultimately brought me here.

A few months later, I gave up and decided on divorce, and custody became an issue.  I had initially (and very foolishly) signed a paper agreeing to give my wife primary custody;  now I realized what a mistake that had been, but my lawyer told me I could be bound by what I had signed when we first separated.  But when I told her about what the therapist said, she asked to see my notes.  She then called the therapist, with my wife's lawyer on the line (but not me), and read my notes to her, and said, "Is this an accurate summary of what you and Matt discussed?" and the therapist said it was.

Based on that, my previous agreement regarding custody was thrown out, because it was clear that I had new information:  that my wife might have BPD, which would impact her ability to be a good parent.  And it all hinged on my notes, which were accepted by the therapist as an accurate account of what she had told me.

Long story short, taking notes can help in these difficult meetings, even if they don't "prove" anything or aren't admissible in court.

So ex calls this morning and leaves a voice mail saying she had to cancel our co parent counseling meeting because she is ill. She did sound sick. I sent an email asking if I could pick up the boys since she is ill and she can pick them up when she is feeling better. I anticipated she would not respond so for the first time in four years I called her cell. She answered and I simply said that I sent an email she needs to look at soon. She said okay. That was about 8:30 am. She replied at a few minutes before 4 pm saying that she is in bed and so is S11. They are both ill and S16 is taking care of them both. I try calling the house phone (which has been missing since Friday) and S11 picks up. I ask him how he is feeling and he says he has a sore throat but feels fine. We talk for about 20 minutes. Normal conversation with S11. He then starts saying that the driveway has lots of cracks in it. He is looking through the front window and his moms car is not in the driveway. I ask him if his mom is home. He tells me she went to work and won't be home until late tonight. We continue talking and he then gives the phone to S16. I ask S16 if mom is working and he says yes. I just wanted to make sure. He then adds that she was working yesterday too.

The thing that gets me is we went to court on Friday. She wanted the next four days (Sat, Sun, today, and Tuesday) with the boys to make up for the time she didn't see them during Thanksgiving. I explained to my atty that I agreed in Sept that she could have the entire Thanksgiving holiday this year. She wanted to go visit her siblings out of state and take the boys with her. This happened the last time we went to court and the judge ordered a continuance because my atty had too much evidence. I agreed back then because I was getting (temporarily) extra time during the school year which is what I was seeking. The boys do 90% of all their school work when with me so I didn't want to argue about a holiday. The thing is, ex went to visit her siblings and left the boys with me anyway. They apparently told her they did not want to go so she decided to go by herself.

We actually had plans for three of the four days now and that was all changed. So bottom line, she gets the four days and at least two of those days she went to work and left the boys at her place. When I was talking to S11 he actually said he was disappointed being at his mom's. Bpd is truely the most twisted disorder out there.

Frustrating.  Do you get the boys for Thanksgiving next year?

Well, at least they are safe... .

Our court order has Thanksgiving rotate from year to year so that works well.

Additionally the entire holiday is split 50/50. She does follow the court order fairly well so that is usually not a problem. She has been trying to work around the order lately and I simply state the order and she doesn't challenge it. She recognizes the court and it's power.

Well, like many of us, you just had a sucky situation, but in the end, you and the kids are ok, so I guess chalk it up to learning experience and remember that you're doing better than a lot of dads on here... .for what it's worth.    That was pretty crappy of her.

So David did you call her out about canceling co parent meeting and

Lying about being sick?  It would be pretty easy for co parent counselor to confirm

That she was at work. Might be good to just act like you care because you want to make

Sure cp counseling is productive and be curious why she is avoiding it.

I did point it out at the last meeting. I think the counselor already "gets it". The meeting started with ex accusing me again of all sorts of things. She actually read from a list. There must have been about 30 things she rattled off. The counselor looked at me and I simply said the majority of things ex said are simply incorrect. Most of it was about me alienating the boys from her. I only addressed the last three and said I would have to have the list read to me again because there were so many things she said. The counselor then took charge and wanted to know if there was some way I would be able to talk to the boys at ex's place. The phone seems to get lost a lot at her place. ( yes that is sarcasm) Ex wants me to call her cell phone instead of her house phone to talk to the boys. I said I had no interest in talking to ex except through email. I offered to purchase S16 a land line that he could plug into the connection in his room at her place. She made several lame reasons why that would not work. I had an answer for everyone. This went back and forth until the counselor told ex that I was being very reasonable. Ex then agreed.

Time ran out by then. However the counselor did mention what the topics for discussion will be next. They were all my concerns. After leaving I realized ex has not had any concerns except that I am abusive blah blah blah.

One of my biggest concerns is school work and that ex doesn't assist, help, guide either boy. I received an email a few days ago telling me that ex hired a private tutor for S11. I have no problem with it since it is only going on at ex's place and she doesn't help either boy. I do not believe she knows how to help and that has been my main focus for the boys. Her hiring a tutor just bolsters my point that she is not helping. I picked the boys up at school the other day and S11 told me all about it. Ex's email claims the tutor has over 30 years experience teaching. S11 told me the who the tutor is and she is no more then in her mid 30's. I know her and she is a very good teacher. Ex has to fabricate everything to some degree to make herself feel batter.

Will the tutor really get to do her job, or will she be fired immediately?  It's good you know who she is.

Not excusing your ex at all, because she probably isn't doing the minimum amount of work to support the boys and their school work. But I have to hand it to her for doing something.

Yay! We lowered the bar enough that she could meet a minimum expectation! LOL!

My BPD ex is very intelligent and educated, but she was horrible at helping the kids with their homework when they were younger, and now that they are in high school I don't think they ever ask her for help.  (They don't need much of my help either.  Their main parent now is Wikipedia.)

She wasn't patient, and wasn't focused on what the kids needed;  she tended to fuss and fight - blame the kid, blame the teacher, complain about the textbook - so much negativity that it wasn't worth the hassle.

:) lol

I picked the boys up today at school. S11 talked to me about the tutor and it wasn't the person I thought it was. However, it was someone I know and she is very good. She is the second person at their school that "got" ex's number so this is a positive.

She helped S11 with his writing assignment. He has a writing assignment every week. I have him do a rough draft on Monday. He is with his mom on Tuesday and Wednesday. I pick them up on Thursday and he usually does his final draft then since he doesn't do anything on Tues or Wed. Today he had his final draft done so it makes my life much easier. It also makes it easier on S11 and he did talk about that since he now doesn't have so much work on Thursday.

I haven't talked to my atty yet but I view this as another piece of evidence that I should have the extra time I have been seeking. I have copies of all his homework so I have everything since Sept and this is the third writing assignment he did at his mom's. He has done nine when with me. That is both the rough drafts and the final draft. He did one rough draft at his mom's and three final drafts which includes this weeks. The two drafts he did at his mom's were actually written by his mom. One is so obvious I laughed when I saw it. She actually wrote it and left her written copy in his school bag so I have it now. He simply copied it into his homework book. If S11 did write it he should be applying for colleges now. The vocabulary is way beyond his age and understanding. I asked him to read it when I first saw it. He said he didn't write it and he had a difficult time reading many of the words. I guess ex was trying to show how smart she was by using big words.  lol

David,

Can I give you some "tough love"?

I think you're doing a great job with all these issues, and it sounds like it's going to work out well for your S11.

Where I'm concerned is with the way you are looking at and describing some things, and how that might affect your thinking, and how it might be perceived by the court.

Here's what I mean:

In your last post you describe something that is very positive for your son - the tutor is a new and probably positive adult in his life, and someone who is apparently able to deal with his mom pretty well, so now your son is getting more and better help and maybe learning good study habits too - getting things done early in the week, not at the last minute.

One way to look at this is, "S11 is getting more help and it's a good thing for him."  But the way you present it is, "Here's more evidence that I'm a better parent than his mom is."

I've been there - and posted it all here! - so I know exactly what it's like - how hard it is to shift from tolerating someone with BPD in your house all the time, then giving up on the relationship and shifting your focus to helping the kids.  And I want the world to understand how hard my ex has made my life, and how hard she is still making it, for me and for the kids;  and how hard I'm working to give the kids all the support they need.  I want the world to say, "You're doing a great job and she isn't!".  Venting here helps because everybody here understands.

Still... .I think we have to work hard, to shift our focus from "I'm a better parent than she is!" to "Solutions for the kids."  I'm still working to make that shift - as my posts here show - it ain't easy.  Maybe sometimes we have to "Fake it til you make it" - speak in terms of "Solutions for the kids" while still thinking a lot about "I'm a better parent than she is!".

I hope you will take this as helpful!  Been there done that!

Matt

Yes, I hear what you are saying Matt. Court requires a different presentation then the way it is presented here. It seems that it would be more of a read between the lines for the judge.

Trying to describe my thinking a little clearer: I think it is good what ex is doing for S11. I tried to co parent with her about these things 3 and 4 years ago and that is all in emails. That was what I was referring to as evidence. Back then I tried to find a way to help the boys with her and she kept arguing in her email replies. Her replies never mentioned anything about the boys. That was why I decided to file for more time in 2012. The fact that it took her from 2012 to now for her to actually figure a way to help S11 is concerning. I suspect her atty is helping her or she is in some form of therapy (which she hinted at recently). That is all positive for both boys.

The problem as I see it is that if the idea comes from me she needs to fight it to the bitter end. Having someone else convince her that an idea of mine makes sense is what the co parent counselor seems to be doing or at least trying to do. I know that sounds one sided but during the meetings ex has never offered any ideas of her own. All she does is repeat how abusive I am and that she is their mother and therefore she should have majority time. The only other thing she has threatened is that if I am able to get child support she will list her house and sell it because she will not be able to live there anymore. That would move the kids out of their current school district. I actually crunched the numbers and she is financially fine even if she paid child support in the amount she claims she would have to pay. It has nothing to do with my motivation and her numbers are extremely exaggerated (wrong). I always view things from ex as winding up in court so I pay attention and make sure I can prove or disprove what she is saying. The few times she has said something that was correct I agreed or found a compromise that worked for everyone. My compromises have always worked out well in court. It has become my normal way of thinking when dealing with ex. I don't like that but I haven't found another way that works.

In the co parent meetings I do listen to everything being said and if ex ever does suggest something for the benefit of the kids I would be extremely pleased and supportive. I, very rarely, get emails with a positive idea about the boys from ex. When I do I agree with it without hesitation even if I don't totally agree. As long as I see no downside for the boys it is simply a different way to do something.

I do appreciate tough love. 

(And I could have been on the other side of this conversation not long ago... .)

I'm glad you two had this conversation... .it really helped me understand something I've been trying to articulate. It's a theme that runs through a lot of these threads but I've had a hard time putting my finger on it.

It's the idea that when we present ourselves as problem solvers in court, and behave in ways where we are genuinely interested in resolving a problem, it actually makes the BPD behaviors stand out even more.

Yeah, that's it exactly.

I remember a scene - almost out of a movie - a somewhat informal hearing before a judge.  Ex, me, both attorneys, all about money - some disputes about which money was mine and which was hers - a large bonus I received after we separated.

Anyhoo... .

Both attorneys spoke but it was mostly posturing - nothing accomplished.  The judge was patient but wanted the parties to settle it - not a ruling which could be appealed.  My wife spoke - said something about "I think I'm entitled to... ." to which the judge replied quickly, "Ms. Matt, you're not entitled to anything until there is a settlement and I approve it.", which I quite enjoyed.  45 minutes or so of blah blah blah... .

Then I realized that nobody was going to solve this but me, so I went to an easel with chart paper on it - why it was in the court I have no idea - and began to write numbers - kind of brainstormy - and outlined how the issue could be settled.  Not "this is right" or "based on the law" but more "How about this... .?".  Everybody listened politely and asked good questions to understand.  I felt like I was pitching to a customer, but a soft-core pitch - collaborative.  Some good ideas from both attorneys to refine what I was saying and I made those changes to the numbers on the chart paper - and we were done.

The court was looking for leadership.  The judge didn't want to do it because he wanted the parties to settle it.  The attorneys couldn't do it because they didn't want to undermine their clients' positions.  My wife couldn't do it because... .well you know.  Only I could provide the leadership, and only if I did it in a quasi-objective, collaborative, aw-shucks manner - some fake humility.  It wasn't hard at all, once I realized I had to do it.

I see your situation very similarly, except it's not about money for you right now, it's about school, homework, and how much time S11 spends with each parent.  If you can make win/win proposals - or proposals that seem to more-or-less meet the needs of both parents and especially of your son - and if you pitch them in a humble, low-key but confident way - you'll probably get the support of all the professionals involved, even your ex's lawyer.  Then, surrounded by professionals supporting your approach, your ex will probably go along.

(But if the professionals sense that this is an attempt to win at your ex's expense, they'll turn off fast.)

So her or her lawyer's claim will be that now that he has a tutor then everything is hunky dory and so let's dismiss the case.   So anticipate that tactic and be prepared for a rebuttal.  The point below would be a good one.


She had over two years to find an alternate solution to your solution, you seeking more time with the children.  So point out that it is a pattern of resistance to solutions, and even if a tutor addresses this problem, that doesn't mean other issues or future issues are fixed too.  Secondly, point out that if the court decides a tutor is an adequate fix and wants to just dismiss the case then what is to guarantee that the tutor is not let go thereafter or some other complication?  Then you would face restarting the case over the very same issue all over again and by the time anything gets done - 2-3 more years will have passed taking up limited resources and precious court time - the kids will be nearly out of school and nearly grown.

it's not certain that this is a good thing for the children, though.  why would BPD-ex suddenly hire this tutor and stick with her and do the right thing permanently?  she may be doing it now just for show, and as soon as the hearing is over, it all goes to pot.  a tutor is a bandaid - ex should be helping the kids too.  so i think you have to show that you provide a more stable environment and have pushed the boys to learn and do better, or something.  hmmm, does that make any sense?  The tutor is a good thing, but it'd be better if there was a tutor plus the supportive dad who brought about these great changes.