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Most here , though experiencing the pain of a toxic relationship and break up are are quite relieved that their pwBPD is on the way out of their life. This may be true for me as well. However, my relationship was not characterized by the lies, acrimony, infidelity and chaos that seems to define almost all of them. My fiance of 2 years did a sudden disappearing act from out of the blue and blocked all forms of contact.

My situation might be impossible, but what if someone else had at least LC available. Besides NC, is there a strategy that has worked? Perhaps for closure or maybe there was a possibility for salvation?

I am not sure if I can say it worked but it has been what I have chosen to do.  I am friend's with my exes family and our mutual friends.  We all live almost 2 hours away from each other.  I have maintained low contact with my ex and regular contact with her family, ensuring I use the social graces of notifying her when I am visiting her mom.  I have zero contact woth her with my replacement is in town.  I do that for my sanity.  I also initiate very little contact. As such, she has reached out to me.  We both love her mother, family, and our friends a freat deal so that commonality has helped because I have ensured i have taken the high road, not disrespecting her at all. I don't live there and our relationship was me travelling to see her on weekends.  It's 10 months out and more better days occur than bad.  She reaches out once in a while.  She told me recently she wasn't "right in the head."  While i could feel my old caretaking coming in, i validated and was supportive while keeping a distance.  My heart still hurts that she is stillmwith my replacement but it is less so.  Oh, and I keep my love life, my private life private from her so she can't belittle or hurt me like she did.  Is it like my other friendships? No but i couldn't live with myseld if I couldn't have forgiveness in a relationship that was more than romantic... .we were family friends since we were kids.  Also, it became less painful starting in December, 9 months after she left and several months after therapy for me.  Anyway, it's my ongoing story of LC.  Good luck!

Hey JRT! Having read some of your recent posts, i'm starting to get the impression that you'd maybe like to try and find some way of getting your ex to come back, even if its only to get some answers. Is that the case?

Its sad to say but, just as with most relationships, once someone has decided its over and they're leaving then, there's nothing you can really do. You can try reaching out with a single phonecall, a text, an e-mail, etc. If there's a negative response, or no response at all... .its finished. Its time to walk away.

As i've said elsewhere, the only real thing that brings a person with BPD back to you is their NEEDS. Its all about them! So long as they need you, you'll be kept around. When they don't need you, well they'll be happy to vanish on you in a heartbeat! If the relationship doesn't end too badly, and the BPD person feels they can get back from it so to speak, then they'll return, if and when they need you again.

Now, one thing you can ask yourself is... .did your exGF keep in touch with her exBFs, maybe had them on Facebook or other social media sites? This is very common for people with BPD/NPD. They can keep tabs on their exs, at the same time as using them as a form of Narcissistic supply. If this IS the case with regards to your exGF then, there's a very high chance she'll try to get in touch with you, in some form or another, in the long run.

Hi JRT,

For a very long time my bf had LC with me. I primarily initiated contact for a very long time. When I initiated contact sometimes, it would trigger him. In the beginning, when I did contact him, I kept it to texting simple "non triggering" things. If I mentioned anything that was related to feelings/emotions, he would get triggered; end of conversation.

I started to pull back and gave him the opportunity to contact me. During this time, I focused and worked on myself. I healed a bit and started improving my life.  As soon as I started to do this, I started receiving more phone calls/texts. It is true for anyone, you tend to be more appealing or attractive to another person if you are in a good place mentally/physically. It is a win-win situation. 

@ BHO... .yes... .I would like to at least achieve some closure with her... .I didn't, however, suffer the same way that others did in their relationship and, cannot be 100% certain that she is even a BPD or otherwise... .regardless, everything that is good in my life I can trace back to hope and hard work... .have there been failure? Yes, but in each of those cases i made every possible effort to achieve success in the endeavor before the situation defeated me - I do not quit, ever. In this way, I go to sleep at night feeling that I have the moral high ground and that I do the right thing. Thats just the way that I function... .its a liability when you dated someone with a PD, lol.

@Eagles... .thanks for the advice... .she has me blocked in every possible way of contacting her and a call to her from an unblocked hotel phone at xmas was answered by a call from the cops... .if past recycles are any indication of her behavior, there will be a point that she will contact me (or maybe not)... .I will remember your advice if it happens.

As I understand, she is seeing a therapist. God willing, she is honest and the T recognizes what her real problem is (I suspect that her complaint was about what ever I had done to manipulate her or such and such) so that they can make progress.

JRT

  "I would like to at least achieve some closure with her"=====

  Can you explain what you mean by closure?

Also, are you interested in resuming the relationship with her?

Shatra

I'm LC with mine at the moment JRT. Whether it's working or not I don't know but I do echo what Eagles said. When I would contact her, she would sigh as though it was an inconvenience but I backed off to work on my own issues and she contacts me daily. I will text her good night or good morning but leave the calling down to her.

Recently contact has become a little more often because she predicts what I'm up to and when she finds out I'm doing something else, it's like she isn't able to help herself. For example, for the past several months, leading up to December, my routine was work, home, talk to her or she would come up, sit watch TV, out for dinner occasionally, bed and repeat. I put myself on stand by in case she had an emergency and "needed" me.

Now, it's work, gym, out with friends, going away for the weekend, seeing family, time with the kids doing activities and just making the most out of life.

Her life is work, sleep, tv, sleep, facebook, sleep, eat, go to bed, work.

A couple of weeks ago she began mirroring me. Started at the gym with her friend, planned a trip away with a friend, buying a bike this week because I now have one. Gym has been stopped already, other friend is now concerned BPDgf can't pay for vacation, not enough money to buy the bike etc... .

My lifestyle is looking far more appealing to her right now which is why she got a little upset tonight that I spent the weekend in Paris and didn't take her with me.

Sahtra... .my /r/s was a bit different than many you see here... .there was no acrimony or violence that paint most BPD relationships that I have learned about... .moreover, she left me suddenly and abruptly only 3 weeks after moving into my home and planning for our wedding began... .she blocked me from contacting her in every way you can think of and once when I called from a hotel line that was not blocked, she called the cops on me... .

I am left with only conjecture and not much else... .

Resuming a relationship? Probably not unless she does an impassioned sell job of which the world has not yet seen. But I have not completely eliminated it as a potential though it is likely to never happen. I have not heard from her in 4 months.

Hey JRT! I'm assuming you've probably already checked this out but, here are the criteria for BPD... .

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterised by alternation between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3. Identity disturbance - markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging, e.g. spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving or binge-eating.

5. Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour.

6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood, e.g. intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety, which usually lasts for between a few hours and several days.

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness

8. Inappropriate, intense anger, or difficulty controlling anger, e.g. frequent displays of temper, constant anger or recurrent physical fights.

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

Anyone with six or more of the above traits and symptoms may be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. However, the traits must be long-standing (pervasive), and there must be no better explanation for them, e.g. physical illness, a different mental illness or substance misuse.

As you can see someone may be diagnosed with BPD, only if they meet SIX of those traits over an extended period of time. Does this match up with your exGF? Which of these criteria did she display?

The sad reality is there never really is any closure. Its a bit like me saying "i'm thinking of a number between 1 and 1000000. What is the number i'm thinking of"? Its impossible for you to know! Half of the time someone with BPD doesn't even know why they do the things they do. Even if they're self aware and can explain certain things to you, it still doesn't really make any sense to a rational mind. They just don't function in the way we do. Their behaviour can rub off on us too. At the end of the relationship, people can start to think and act like them. They can become obsessed with them, try to figure them out, over think things, call them, text them, turn up at their house, check up on them, have reunion fantasies etc. Its hard but you just have to accept the relationship and how it ended for what it is/was.     

"Their behaviour can rub off on us too. At the end of the relationship, people can start to think and act like them. They can become obsessed with them, try to figure them out, over think things, call them, text them, turn up at their house, check up on them, have reunion fantasies etc. Its hard but you just have to accept the relationship and how it ended for what it is/was."

This has been me! I have literally been there. I thought I was freaking insane! I have never ever been this way over exes before... .just this one. After I figured out that he was uBPD, I thought I myself was BPD. I don't think so now that I am in here reading all of these posts and seeing myself in each and every one of them. But the obsession after the breakup is just as frustrating as the relationship itself. Neither one seem survivable. The grass seems greener either way. But I will say this- now that my uBPDbf and I are working toward back-together... .my hair is growing back, my stomach issues are gone, I have an appetite again, and I don't cry in a fetal position anymore.

JRT- I know you are heartbroken.  Find one thing that you love and delve into it. For my cousin it was cereal (no joke like always 20 different kinds of cereal in his cabinet), for someone else on here I saw photography. For myself it is the gym. Getting those endorphins up helps mind and body so much. Unfortunately I also really love wine... .and at times I have loved it too much. But make sure your one little thing is healthy. :)  Find one little piece of happiness for yourself.

She was a waif and internalized everything... .EVERYTHING. She was very careful what she let anyone hear, and I was the person most close to her! So, I would confirm almost all of the signs but its just an educated guess on my part. What goes along with my unprofessional diagnosis is the mountains of anecdotal evidence that I have come across here. Where there is smoke, there is associated fire.

As for closure, I believe that it is all relative. Having her give me an explanation of why she did what she did and a play by play on our relationship would be like winning the closure Lotto for me. An opportunity to give her a piece of my mind would be like winning the daily 5. Seeing her would  be like getting a free ticket from a scratch off. They would all provide a level of closure for me.

Thanks greatly for your input cloud10... .,I turned the corner on my r/s in December through anger of all things... .right now, I am ambivalent about her; how can you easily stand in front of a freight train for someone on one day and then write them out of your life the next? All of my ex's still occupy a small place in my heart as will this one, but hers is diminishing over time.On the other hand, my brain (and now being joined by my heart) is saying, 'You better not!'.

I am actually the photographer, and musician, and parent, and runner; I have plenty of distractions but there is just something that lingers here... .something just isn't right... .not final. Maybe it s only trying to understand the non- understandable... .I also wonder if I am coming to these boards too much and if doing THAT is just opening thins up on a daily basis (though I have excellent understanding as a result).

" I have plenty of distractions but there is just something that lingers here... .something just isn't right... .not final. Maybe it s only trying to understand the non- understandable... .I also wonder if I am coming to these boards too much and if doing THAT is just opening thins up on a daily basis (though I have excellent understanding as a result)."

All i know to say is I KNOW. I am there with you. Something isn't right, isn't final... .and it may never be right or final. But believe me when I tell you that when she comes back- talking to her and trying to understand or worst off recycling doesn't help you understand or make anything feel more final- not in my case anyway. It has only worsened everything.

I too think that coming on here, although I am learning a lot, is also contributing to re-opening my wounds. So- I am coming to these boards in moderation... .just like most things in life... .moderation.  I have a boss that is in psychotherapy every day... .and I think that must be exhausting for him- I see it in his face. He is intraspective too much... .and now its an obsession for him. I see that in myself when I come here too. So, I am going to save this place for the worst days, or when I need reassurance. But I took a few days off over the weekend and feel much better.

QUESTION!  I also have a daughter- how did your relationship affect your child (assuming the child was not the BPD's)? This is one area I am struggling with allowing the BPD back into my child's life.

Frankly, it is one of the elements that I am most angry about. My daughters mom has not really been able to be the kind of mom that a lot of girls had wished for since she is ill with MS. So the shopping, and nail salons and even just girl advice has not been something that she could provide. Notwithstanding, she is not really the kind of woman that really likes to do that kind of stuff anyway. she was always a bit boring. With my BPD, my daughter really looked up to her. She wore cool clothes and did her hair really nicely and was kinda of hip. She would really become excited when she was around even if we were just doing every day kind of stuff. On those times that we arrived somplace with two cars, she usually took the option of driving with her. The bonded for sure.

I was away ion business when the b/u all went down. I called her to tell her what was happening and I heard a crying that I had never heard from her before: it was a deeply painful crying that I felt some overwhelmingly responsible for. She had her step dad drive to our house where she called me to say that everything was gone and I heard that crying again.

I had been divorced for 11 years. I dated here and there and had some long term relationships. My primary concern and desired quality was to find someone that would cause no harm to my daughter, I cast some many away for this reason. Not even that they would do harm, but not really any good. And here it was: I let the wolf into the hen house when my primary objective was to keep it out. I felt like I let her down in a big way.

After the b/u, she began to report that she felt sad and our of energy; depressed. Along the way, my ex who also blocked her on social media and contact (imagine what message THAT sent to a 15 year old without so much as an explanation, 'Your dad and I cannot see one another because____________". Around 2 months into the b/u, she reconnected with her on pintrest and sent her an innocuous pin related to Halloween... .I can't tell you how enraged I was that she did this.

It was pretty clear that she gave little if any thought to how her actions would affect my daughter and my offense at this has, actualy, helped me to push her out. My daughter is in therapy as a result and it looks like this is just a bit of a bump in her life. Thank GOD!

Yours? Is she ok?

This is worthy of a new thread, BPD's impact in step children. I had wondered.  My expwBPD had expectations of perfectionism for the children in the relationship before ours.  She is now with someone who has many children, 2 in high school, and a grandchild.  My ex is a child herself in terms of her selfishness, extreme moods, and silent treatment.  She admitted she withdrew frim the stepkids in her prior relationship when those kids didn't meet her standards of perfectionism.  My hands shook as I tried to meet those standards. I wonder how the kids in the current relationship are doing.

cloudten: 

Your below quote:

"But I will say this- now that my uBPDbf and I are working toward back-together... .my hair is growing back, my stomach issues are gone, I have an appetite again, and I don't cry in a fetal position anymore."

I am curious what resulted in you both working towards getting back together?  Did someone break NC?

JRT, I wish i could help you with advice.

I tried everything, short email, low emotional content email, not emailing for 5 months and then made a short one, i never got any reply.

Today a good friend of me and my wife emailed my wife. She worries about me. She asked me longer time ago if it was ok to do it, but i said to just let it be. Now she did it and actually I am ok with it, the contence was about whats going around here and how they witness me. I don't know if it will help or trigger. Nothing worked until now so what can be lost.

My profile describes enough, its not us, its them. The sudden change and coldness is just something a normal brain cannot process. I do know how it feels to not know anything, kicked in the dirt like trash. The flasbacks, the missing, the ungrateful and unfair treatment, the why's and self-questioning "what did i do wrong? "

The problem that some people around us simply cannot comprehend, certainly not when months go by. The rollercaoster of grief, mixed emotions, despair and hope. The well meant advice that brings us in isolation. Remarks like "Its time to get over it, shes not worth it, if it was my wife then... ."

Don't blame them, they maybe understand but cannot comprehend.

Keep posting because we all care and know how it feels. Time will tell. Sad for us, because we care and thats why we suffer more than we deserve. We are victims of unconditional love for someone who is worth it and at the same time deserves to drown in the sh... .t they create themselves.

BlackHoleSun; i read your summary and for me its a constant question of what it is with her. Also because she mentioned PTSD (I don't even know if it was selfdiagnosed) But i recognise a lot and i know there is overlap.

Thanks for your info. It helps me

Hi JRT --

Sorry you're going through this, man.


I've been there. I feel ya. In my case, I finally got to the point of accepting that, sure -- we could reconcile but, no -- nothing would be any different. So, the question I had to ask and answer for myself was this: "Would spending my life in misery, our of love for this person, be worse than spending my life without the misery involved in spending life with this person?"

To me, the loud and clear answer was yes -- it wouldn't be the life I want, and deserve, and I'm no obligated by love or anything else to compromise on that. So I left.

In your case, I would only remind you, as if you need to hear it -- she left you, she blocked you, and when you tried to call her, she made a complaint about you to law enforcement. If and when you do get her back, you are likely to get back all of that, too. Just something to consider.

Hang in there.

It probably would be a good thread... .my ex step son is a real mess... .its hard to be not angry at him since he is the most self-centered and obnoxious ___hole you will ever meet, but knowing that she created him makes me feel sorry for him more than anything else. A very intelligent, even charming, kid that barely passed a special ed sort of high school and is so obnoxious, he is unable to keep a single friend or hold down a job for any longer that 2 or 3 weeks before they let him go. Its sad: the best that he will do is some BS job (his only hope is one that he can work on his own, isolated with little complexity in expectation. A waste of a bright mind), where he lives at home with mom until old age or some kind halfway house.

The cycle move on to a new generation.  

Yeah... .I know... .sigh

This child topic is definitely worthy of a new thread... .absolutely!

I am on a recycle now- reluctantly. I keep trying to find a reason to not be in this... .but right now I am waiting for the other shoe to drop so I have an excuse out.  I know it will drop eventually- it always does.  to answer Restored- We both broke NC. We have never really gone more than 4 weeks in the last 2.5 years without talking to each other. But I will say, some of the 4 weeks, I was just starting to feel that freedom and fresh air when he would break NC. But I love him so desperately and deeply. I do realize that I am at least partially co-dependent, but I also know that I have loved him like no one else... .so unconditionally.

My daughter is nearly 6 and has known my BPD since she was 3 (I was married before to someone with horrible ADHD, and that man is her dad. He is a great dad... .and no he does not like my BPD one bit). She knows something isn't right with him. When she was 4 she said "mom, sometimes I like him and sometimes I don't"... .which pretty much sums it up! She adores him though, just as I do. He told me last night that she whispered in his ear "I want you to be my dad" which she has told me as well. Which is heartbreaking for me because I just don't think he is capable of being that person.

As it is, regardless of the BPD, we are having issues with my daughter behaving in school. She does have a spring birthday and is young for kindergarten, but the school thinks she is not ready behavior-wise for 1st grade. They have a great pre-1 program we are considering for her.  BUT- my BPD thinks this is his chance to save the day and give advice on our parenting. He has no children of his own and knows nothing about being a father. This morning, I literally got a text from him "I wasn't active in my opinions and now I'm much more straight forward with you and her. Mr. *** isn't nice to kids who refuse to listen."  

Any normal person, I wouldn't be scared about this remark, but it has really given me pause this morning. Do I really want him disciplining my daughter?  She is such a kind, warm, caring soul with EMPATHY... .yes she is having behavior problems... .but i do not think he is the one I want saving-the-day. He has destroyed me with words and actions... .I don't want or need him doing that to my daughter as well.  So today is a whole new perspective on things... .I had been tentative on letting him into her life before. One of his chief complaints was that I wouldn't let him be a part of things. And now I have tried to let him be part of things, and having major second thoughts.

So, JRT, the thoughts on what your daughter has been through, now in therapy for, is alarming.  I do not want my daughter destroyed the way he has destroyed me. soo much to think about! Sometimes it is overwhelming. But my first and foremost responsibility is to protect my daughter. That's one of the reasons I got divorced- was to protect her from another liar and cheater. So yes, I have let a wolf into the hen house as well.

I just hurt so badly- for everyone involved in all this ___ed up stuff. I hurt for everyone here. I hurt for our children. I hurt for the BPDs... .I am sure they don't want it- and frankly don't know any different because they have always been that way. I truly hurt that I am not the only person to go thru this. truly. I hurt for my BPDs ex-girlfriends too. I know the last one is suffering from PTSD too.

I suppose I need to trust myself. My instinct has always been not to let him in my daughter's life... .and not to introduce him to my family. Come on ME... .why can't I listen to ME? My head is watching my heart throw itself off a cliff.

Thank you for sharing what you did about your daughter! The effects of these people in their life and effects of them out of their life is truly concerning.

Most welcome... .I hope it helps in some way... .

Let me know if someone starts a new thread... .the story of her son is almost something that is unbelievable!

Not having a go and again, i don't mean any offence by questioning you but, i was hoping you might go into more detail with the criteria she matched up with. You were saying that you were unsure if your exGF had BPD? Again, 6 of those symptoms, held over a long period of time, need to be met in order to be diagnosed with the disorder.

My exGF met all of those symptoms, over many years. As do all of the people i know that have BPD. Is there any chance you can go into a bit more detail? Maybe there'd be a better chance of helping you out a bit then. From what you say, if she moved in with you then suddenly vanished 3 weeks later, whether it was BPD or not, she certainly seemed to be suffering from some kind of engulfment issue.

At first, I felt that she was an ACOA where she definitely demonstrated those symptoms in her day to day life. But the way that she broke up and the aftermath had vexed me. That is how I needed up here, its the only thing that makes sense and the way that she did it lines up.


Although she never went into detail about what her thoughts were To her, no one ever cared anyway, so why bother talking about them?) and I also think that she was so desperate for a successful relationship, that she wanted to keep her thoughts to herself for fear that exposing them would hasten the inevitable abandonment... .but she left enough information about her childhood and other elements that allowed me to connects all of the dots. Some of the characteristics are indisputable such as #2, while others are directly supported by statements or her behaviors 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 (I think the b/u qualifies though she DID rage at her son in very inappropriate ways... .I almost felt that she hated him) ad 8... .#5 not at all. But even some of these characteristics were not overwhelmingly dominant. Its hard to say since she kept things locked up... .I mean, how can I make the call on #1 unless she tells me directly?

For me its very easy to see what was wrong with my exGF as she clearly meets all of the criteria, over many years and also qualifies for being co-morbid NPD too.

I'm led to believe that there are quite a few Psychologists/Psychiatrists who use the term Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder to describe Cluster Bs. I think its something along the lines of most disorders within the cluster Cluster B grouping actually overlap. So, instead of diagnosing people as BPD or NPD or HPD etc they would sooner use the diagnosis of CPTSD for them all, as the people suffering with the disorder/disorders, are all essentially suffering from the same thing - learnt behaviours and coping mechanisms, that they have in place, due to the repeated traumas they've encountered throughout their lives.  

Is it possible for you to give some examples of the above? Did you actually see any of the behaviour listed in the DSM for BPD first hand? It could be that she may have had a different PD entirely, or she may just have certain traits and not actually qualify for a diagnosis.

I'll be honest, i just can't imagine having a "normal" relationship with someone suffering from BPD over an extended period of time, even if they're diagnosed and 40+.

I am not ruling out the possibility that she is another PD... .but as I read the accounts here, particularly as it relates to waifs, I see here pretty clearly. The biggest indication is how she left: out of the blue, suddenly, while I was away on business... .she sent me an angry text to never attempt to contact her even though there was no acrimony... .she blocked me from contact, blocked me on social media and painted me black to all of her family and friends with the goal of compelling them to unfriend me as well... .she has refused to speak with me at all o 4 months, with my attempts to subvert those blocks met with threats of legal action and a call from the cops with a stern warning... .I have confirmed that she stalks me on FB and had unblocked me on her phone at one point an then reblocked me... .so great is her aversion to any contact of any kind, not only is she willing to besmirch me legally, but ok with me destroying a large number of family heirlooms that she left at my home... .

Many other subtle signs such as leaving things here... .prior recycles... .too many to mention here. I was with her fro two years: I didn't know everything (obviously) but I knew enough. As far as her day to day persona, I knew enough to affirm all of the above that I had.

It sounds like what everyone is talking about here... .she just didn't rage like most do... .and she didn't go nuts keeping in contact with me... .AND it is very likely that she has a replacement: she tends to keep to herself between r/s's.

Hey, if its not BPD, I cool with that... .I would even say that I am relieved. But what would it then be?

Same here. I've tried. Based on my experiences, it comes down to determining whether you have the capacity to accept the behaviors associated with the disease as something you're willing to live with in your primary romantic r-ship, and then making a decision as to whether you want to do it, or hold out for something (and someone) less complex.

JRT -- no offense, but let's say, for discussion purposes, your ex only scores positive on items 3, 4, 6, 7 and 8 and isn't technically BPD. Are those things you want to live with?

I would rather try and fail than not try and wonder for the rest of my life: that to me is like prison. If it works, then I have everything to gain, if I lose and accept it as a lost cause, I can move on. I had no pain associated with her with the exception of the b/e's.

JRT,

This person has ended the relationship multiple times (followed by recycles up until this last disappearance).  Your most recent attempt at contacting her resulted in a call from the police. 

An honest question: How much harder do you want to try at this point?

I am not trying at all... .:)

There is nothing that I can do... .I have no cards to play... .I have been dating (though no one seriously) and pursuing my interests as if I had never met her... .but I strongly suspect that THAT day will come. At that point in time, I will need to make a decision. In the interim, I am living my life.

I don't want to come across as a dick but, vanishing and blocking someone, refusing contact and leaving items at your place are not symptoms of BPD. Can't really go on anything from that. If you could come up with specific things she did that meet the criteria then we could be in business though! However, it does sound like she could have had some kind of engulfment issue after she started living with you. If that was the case and she was feeling engulfed and you then tried to contact her repeatedly, that could have made the situation a lot worse.

A lot of the time with BPD, people tend to think the person suffering from it, is running due to some kind of abandonment trigger, when in fact its actually the opposite. Chasing after them then makes things 10x worse. In fact from my experience, its the fear of abandonment that actually brings them back and keeps them in contact with you. Its also my experience that people with BPD love being chased at the start of a relationship but hate being chased towards the end, especially if they've left you or done something wrong. They tend to see it as a sign of weakness, when they're looking for someone who is emotionally strong.

No, I appreciate that you are challenging me... .

Lets pretend that all that I have is the way that she left... .and the way that she has behaved in the wake of her flight. Can we both agree that it is just not normal? IF not BPD, then what?   I read an account from a pwBPD regarding blocking and attributes that were pretty much in line with her behavior. How would the other recycles fall into the not BPD disorder? How would her alcoholic father and codependent mother fit in? The trauma of the death of a friend in high school? The failure of each and everyone of her relationships ( a victim in all of them). painting me black to her friends an the ensuing distortion campaigns. (I am just throwing these out there but they are mounting - still not be BPD though). Maybe the compulsive decisions that seem to characterize her thinking? How about how she recycles her freind's as well (all back nicely in her camp right now but were painted black when I met her and wasn't until a year later that I met even one of them)? Her weight gain of 40 lbs seems to indicate an eating problem. How about her various physical ailments, odd quirky ones, such as cysts, pimples and boils, thyroid, cramps. Add to that reckless driving with various major accidents in recent past. I could go on, but will not.

This is just it: she never spoke of the things that you and others had, ostensibly, been exposed to whether you liked it or not. I am left with a lot of circumstantial evidence, but it is pointing pretty convincingly in one and only one direction. Of course, if you have any other ideas, I am all ears.

Btw; I agree with you that chasing after them makes things 10x worse... .and yes, there was a time after the last recycle where she mentioned that this was an expectation of hers and thanked me. This time, she must have changed her mind!

Ok, that's good.  The name of this thread was 'Strategies for getting BACK a pwBPD', so I just wanted to check.

We didn't seem to cover too many strategies!  :-) I think, in fact, that the only real one is NC, if anything.

cloudten: Sounds like a complicated relationship consisting of a lot of starts and stops with intervals in between.  :)o you think your BPD person really knows what unconditional love is?  The reason I ask this is because mine told me that she didn't know what unconditional love is when I told her that I unconditionally love her.  She also told me that she did not see her own value/self-worth.  As a result, very likely she did not see my value and the value of our relationship.  Any thoughts on this?

JRT:  

Your below quote from earlier:

"... .I have confirmed that she stalks me on FB and had unblocked me on her phone at one point an then reblocked me... ."

I'm curious how were you able to figure out when she unblocked you and then blocked you again?

on the phone? Every now and again I called her to see if I still was... .right around xmas eve, I called and it rang. She then hung up after she answered. I texted her and wrote, 'it appears that you have unblocked me' ... .I went to the airport and when I got to my hotel, I saw that she reblocked me.

I suspected that she, maybe, got a new phone or something. But I called her carrier (which is also my carrier) and was told that it was not phone specific.

Just the other day here, there was a BPD that indicated that this is somewhat typical: they are testing themselves to see if they can even handle speaking with us. I guess that she was not, lol. She had explained that the ones that block their ex's this way, were REALLY keen on them and the pain so great, that they go through great lengths to create a barrier to contact. She also mentioned that the sign that they are finally over you and indifferent is when they unblock you since they have achieved a point where there is no longer associated pain.

This makes me sad a bit.

JRT: Thanks for clarifying. 

I would agree with the perspective on the blocking to create a barrier to contact, due to the BPD person struggling with their feelings towards that very same person.  It seems to be their way of coping in the classic run away mode. 

Is there a way to get anyone back who doesn't want to be with you BPD or not?

I think when JRT your x like mine has blocked , ignored showed little to no empathy for their actions is in my case on dating sites and accepting no blame at all .

Its a loss cause . For an x to get back with you BPD or not they have to want to at least a little our x's sound like for them that's both something they really don't want to do.

Dobie... .everyone is different... .mine reported not knowing what was guiding her the last time(s) she recycled... .breaking up wasn't REALLY what she wanted to do, she just ran... .it was a knee jerk reaction to some trigger... .this is consistent with what I have seen many times here. I understand those cases where it was jsut a bad relationship and it was over.

So assuming that this is the case, what next? If you were the non and you LOVED this person and the relationship was otherwise good (no raging... .no violence... .no lies), what would be the best response? This is the crux of this thread... .

Sad to say it but Dobie is right. You can't MAKE someone be in a relationship with you. BPD or not, if they decide its over, its over. Its that simple. I love my ex very much but, i can't change how she feels about me.

This might come across as being harsh JRT, i don't mean it to but, from your description of your exGF, she really doesn't sound as though she has BPD. That said, maybe she has some traits of it, who knows? Or maybe she just has certain "issues"? Either way, i get the impression that you still love her very much and want her back. Its almost like you're hanging onto the hope of her being BPD though, in the chance that because of the disorder, she'll eventually return to you.

Now, for the sake of it, lets say she IS BPD. It means there's a chance that she never truly loved or cared for you. It might mean that she was just using you to meet her own needs. That the person you fell for was just a dream, a mirage, they never really truly existed as you saw them. You see, even when you KNOW 100% that your ex is BPD and you've discussed it with them and they've openly told you about the things they do... .there's still no closure! You simply cannot explain the actions of another person, whether they're BPD or not.

For example, lets stick with thinking that your ex does have BPD. She told you she didn't REALLY want to break up with you. A person with BPD can have their emotions, feelings and thoughts change in a matter of moments. Maybe at the time she said this she meant it. Maybe she didn't mean it at all. Maybe she meant it at the time but 5mins later she felt the opposite. You can never know.

The same goes for a BPD telling you that they want to be chased. At the time they tell you it could be true, within a matter of minutes they could have changed their mind entirely. One of my diagnosed BPD exGFs always used to say "i never chase, you will have to chase me". She would then go on to say that men always became obsessed with her and wouldn't leave her alone when she dumped them. Make sense? She would say it was a HUGE turn off seeing their desperation and laugh about them. Just like my other ex she actually got a kick out of it. It was almost as if she set them up, so she could knock them down and take pleasure in the pain she'd caused. Then of course i split up with her and guess what? That's right, she chased like mad, wouldn't leave me alone, even though i'd gone fully NC. This from a person that "never chases"!

So, to answer your question - what would be the best response if someone you love very much breaks up with you?

Answer - Let them go. Sure, let them know you care for them and love them still if you feel the need to but, only within reason. Call them ONCE. Text them ONCE. Maybe write them a letter or email ONCE. If at that point they don't want to know, especially if they're blocking you then, its time to move on.

As for the strategy of getting a BPDex back... .well, there isn't one really. As i've said, they will come back if they NEED you in some way and only then, if they're able to get back from how the relationship ended.

BHS - on the next thread, before your respond, I ask you to ask yourself before you type, 'In what way am I able to help this person'?

BHS - on the next thread, before your respond, I ask you to ask yourself before you type, 'In what way am I able to help this person'? [/quote]
I don't quite understand. Not sure why you seem to have taken offence at what i've said? I am trying to help! I'm trying to advise you that you need to let it go. You don't know if your exGF actually does suffer with BPD. I'm trying to help you see (and anyone else in the same situation) that it doesn't actually matter. If someone doesn't want to be with you then there's nothing you can do. If your ex has blocked you, then she's sending a very clear message, telling you she doesn't want to hear from you. I'm giving this advise being someone who has 3 diagnosed BPD friends and who has had a diagnosed BPDgf and an undiagnosed but self aware BPDgf. If they stop contacting you, then yes, reach out to them but don't push and push and push. If they tell you its over then, yes, again reach out to them but don't make repeated contact. Give them space, give them time to think, show that you're emotionally strong and prepared to walk away.

Its very easy to get into the mindset of thinking - "She's got BPD! Maybe she does really want to be with me! Its just the disorder talking. If i keep on reaching out to her, everything will be ok. If i can just show her how much i care, how much i love her, she'll come back to me". Its sort of White Knight thinking. I can empathise, its difficult and believe very strongly that, a lot of this way of thinking can actually come from the trauma of the relationship and break up.

For example, my little theory is this -

At the start of the relationship, they mirror you. By the end of the relationship, you mirror them.

You start to take on their traits, just like they took on yours. When they leave you feel their pain of abandonment. 3 of the borderlines i know make men fall in love with them, even if they don't want the men. They then drop them off the cliff in the most painful way imaginable. Its like they're trying to do to these men what their fathers did to them. Trying to make them feel the pain of loving someone, only for that person to turn around and leave them.   

I with what BHS is trying to say but perhaps the wording may have been a little strong on the first post.

BPD or not, the best possible way to get back with someone is to walk away and continue with your own life. There is a saying that goes "If you love someone let them go, if they dont come back they were never yours"

The mother of my d14 does not have BPD. When we split we were both responsible for the failure of our relationship. Mostly because we were young and the pressures of a new family were hard on both of us. After the split,  we couldn't go NC because of d14 (who was 2 at the time) so maintained LC where necessary. 2 months later she found herself in trouble after at attempted mugging and knocked on my door because I was close. I let her stay that night, slept on the sofa but made her feel safe and was very independent. We tried again but it never worked out. What we did get from it is a friendship that is still strong today 12 years later.

ExN/BPDw and I divorced almost 3 years ago. I went strictly NC the moment I left the house on advice of T because ex was "dangerous". 3 years later and she still keeps trying to contact me. Usually every month I get something but she took a break between June and December last year.

BPDgf decided she wanted to leave r/s so I let her go. 4 days it took before suicide threats started and I'm still in a push/pull with her now. I try and back away and she chases, I get close and she runs. I'm even taking her out on a date tonight but then expect silence for 2 days after.

From all 3 of those, the only one that was truly worth another go was d14s mother. We split over valid reasons, got back together and both realised it wasn't working out. The getting back together was genuine where I dont feel that with BPDgf, its more out of entertaining her abandonment fears.

As BHS said, you need to show you are prepared to show you can walk away. It kills me to do so but twice I've walked away from BPDgf, first when she said she wanted to end r/s. I told her it didn't change how I felt about her but if she was unhappy I wouldn't stand in the way of her happiness and walked away. 2nd time was New Years Eve and that was NC for 4 days.

There is no set formula for getting anyone back, you can only grow stronger become who you want to be and just maybe it will draw her back. You may find as you get healthier that you dont want her back or need her in your life. You might have found someone else who treats you like you deserve to be treated and look back on ex as just someone from your past.

This makes all of the sense in the world... .the only real strategy is NC especially in a push/pull environment... .was hoping ffor stories more than anything else... .and yes: its often times not what one say but how they say it.

Ripped Heart --

This has been one of my favorite sayings over the years -- so simple, yet so undeniably true, I think.


Your story really intrigues me, and I'd like to ask about it, if you're willing to discuss. I'm always encouraged when I hear anyone talk about a happy ending with an ex, especially if they were married, and most especially if they share children -- it's terrific that you and your daughter's mother have remained friends.

The mother of my d14 does not have BPD. When we split we were both responsible for the failure of our relationship. Mostly because we were young and the pressures of a new family were hard on both of us. After the split,  we couldn't go NC because of d14 (who was 2 at the time) so maintained LC where necessary. 2 months later she found herself in trouble after at attempted mugging and knocked on my door because I was close. I let her stay that night, slept on the sofa but made her feel safe and was very independent. We tried again but it never worked out. What we did get from it is a friendship that is still strong today 12 years later.

This is just a sobering example of the types of behavior we've learned can be typical of pwBPD:


So what's going on here? --


I take it that, since you still refer to her as "gf" -- and we're on the "Staying" boards -- that you're trying to work things out with her. Sounds like you're sure she suffers from BPD, and she's demonstrated some common behaviors. But you're still with her. Is it because you expect something to change? or hope something can change? or aren't ready to make a decision?

To clarify -- from my perspective, all are valid choices, and none of us can make these choices for anyone but ourselves, or determine when is the right time to make them. I've been through all of them, and spent my time in each of those phases, if you can refer to them as such. I'd just like to better understand how others walk themselves through that process. If you're willing to share, I'm all ears.

I apologise if if my words seemed harsh but there's really no point in just telling someone what they want to hear. Its not going to do any good in the long run. I do tend to just tell it how it is, i don't mean to offend anyone though.

For example... .:) ... .you keep asking about a strategy you can use to get someone with BPD back. Truthfully - there isn't one! NC does not bring someone with BPD back, just as it would not bring someone without BPD back. The only thing that brings them back (in terms of the BPD itself) is their NEED for you.

Let me try to explain... .

As i'm sure we all know, one of the core parts of BPD is that the sufferer experiences disordered attachments with people.

Attachment = NEED.

However, NEEDING someone is not the same as WANTING someone. Drug analogy - you may start out WANTING to score heroin but eventually, an attachment/addiction takes hold, the WANT falls away and is replaced with a NEED.

As i said previously, my little theory is that at the start of the relationship they mirror us. By the end of the relationship we mirror them. We start to feel the obsession that they had for us at the beginning of the relationship. We start to feel addicted and in need of the attachment to them they felt for us. We feel their fear of abandonment. We start to take on BPD ourselves.

BHS... .its not that your words sound harsh, they do. But you also seem to have the need to be acknowledged to be 'right'. Along the way, you make deep assumptions about the situation which, at least in my case, were almost always incorrect. Repeated attempts to point this out to you seem to be ignored as are occasions where I pointed out 'what are you trying to accomplish that is helpful here'. Even this very post ignores the spirit of what I was looking for by asking the question to begin with.

I am sure that your intentions are good but during my interactions with you, my perception has been that you intent is not to support. I began responses to you where I am thinking to myself, 'This guy is calling me onto the carpet and is demanding that I justify what I think and feel' This is not what I came here for'.

This is only my perspective (and I invoke it with respect to you and good manners), but I think that its worthwhile for you to consider.

Hi J,

Let's temporarily put aside the discussion regarding delivery/communication styles for just a moment.  The last portion of BHS's post (quoted above) is an interesting observation.  Do you think it has any merit or applies to anything you've experienced so far? 

"Even this very post ignores the spirit of what I was looking for by asking the question to begin with."


I see your point.  It is not uncommon for threads to drift away from the OP's question--everyone here has a story they want to tell, or advice they want to share.  So let's bring it back full circle.  Using words from your quote, what was the spirit with which you broached  the subject of 'strategies for getting BACK a pwBPD'?

 

It was probably mis-worded by me. It should have been entitled:

"After you broke-up with your BPD, and assuming that you wished to reconcile with them and they had cut off contact, was there a way (besides NC) in which your were able to not only successfully reestablish communication with them, but also managed to restore our relationship. "

But it just would not fit into the title bar  :-)

JRT, this is the same thing i struggle with, thats why its so important to me to know WHY?

To me, the succinct version means the same thing as this long-form explanation.  So your original heading was what most members thought--problem is, there probably aren't enough 'success' stories--if you want to call them that--to keep the thread going in that direction.

How about the first half of my previous post--do you think BSH's theory has any merit?

I hear ya jo... .it is the way that we are wired... .

I can say this: that what compels this in me is also responsible for many of my lifes successes: to exhaust all possibilities in pursuit of a goal/idea/passion. This is the ONLY instance that I can think of that it has been a liability.

Not really I don't think: the succinct version presupposes that this is even possible while the long form does not.

What theory specifically? 

I guess what I meant was that the 'spirit' or intent of both versions of the query seem to come from the same place.  But I could be interpreting incorrectly--I'm not always that bright.

This theory... .

"As i said previously, my little theory is that at the start of the relationship they mirror us. By the end of the relationship we mirror them. We start to feel the obsession that they had for us at the beginning of the relationship. We start to feel addicted and in need of the attachment to them they felt for us. We feel their fear of abandonment."

I think the difficult part to answering this question is that there has to be an element of control. Because we have no control over anyone but ourselves, the only way to reconcile is pretty much a waiting game as it takes 2 people to engage.

So the only thing you can possibly do, as I mentioned in my post, is to focus on you. You have to make yourself appealing to your ex and then its down to her how she reacts to that. Its a lot of catch 22 because if you reach out to "show her" it comes over as needy and that can be part of why they leave in the first place.

Our perceptions change too as we heal. I wanted nothing more than exN/BPDw to reach out and for things to work out between us. However, the more I kept my distance, the more I understood what had gone on, the more I didn't want her to reach out and the more she did. I actually thought at one point of engaging with her, in the hope the hate would resurface in her and she would leave me alone.

I agree with JRT in that we are wired differently too. Something I discovered with T today is that I have problems with ending an r/s completely. Instead, when I know its over, I hand it to the other person to kill completely. I put myself in the line of being abandoned because it's something I'm used to and something I can absorb rather than abandoning the other person. I take the pain so they dont suffer and that's not entirely healthy either.

That plays into the would rather try and fail than wonder for the rest of my life.

Its probably a two beer conversation... .at the beginning of my r/s id don't know that there was any mirroring going on as we both indicated that we felt he same way about one another... .it was intense but not the type of inferno that I gather from many of the anecdotes here... .more of a controlled burn if you will.

At the end of mine, there really wasn't any real change in our relationship... .everything was normal. We were planning our wedding were only two weeks prior we had ordered our rings. We were also planning outings, parties and all the usual mundane stuff that is part and parcel to a normal relationship. So there really wasn't any mirroring going on that I was able to discern all outward appearances were that it was a healthy r/s. Remember, we did not have the stereotypical BPD r/s with a lot of fighting... .it was peaceful and happy.

If you meant post b/u? Not sure on that either. Realistically, I know that I could replace her (and I hope that doesn't sound arrogant or anything), its just a matter of time and all the associated b/s that comes along with dating when you are 48 and having few alternatives than online dating (believe me, this is part of the pain, lol). But the abrupt and suddenness if it is just as if somebody died. No sickness or disease, just dead the next day. There was no time to prepared for it mentally or emotionally - poof, just gone. Now add to that that from beyond the grave, not only are they available to talk to you, but are physically still there! However, they refuse to and are angry at you even though they have no reason to be angry.

That prompted me to think of myself as well. In difficult relationships, jobs, friendships, etc. it has always been a challenge for me to disengage for what was a situation that I knew logically to be bad or unrewarding. I have always considered quitting a job or dumping someone an act of shameful failure and avoided doing so at all costs. So I let the other party do it. Even in relationships, I never felt a stigma that I was 'dumped' or rejected but that I did all that I needed to in order to effect a success. In fact, I always considered the other as a bit of a loser by not following through and doing all that needed to be done to insure success. 

This hardwiring is the one quality that I can trace back to all the positive things that I have been able to accomplish in my life. Ironically, the opposite here.

*mod*

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .