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I put somewhat of a false self out there in my last relationship with uBPDwife. She was so different than I. So emotional, whereas I'm the opposite, logical. She was so full of excitement/deep sorrow, where as I'm more even keel. Did I ramp up my excitement when she was excited? Probably. Did she take me down further than i normally go when her air get deflated? Probably. Did I get more outgoing at events that I had to go to with her because she was so outgoing? Yes. I don't think i was fake... .I think I adapted to a situation.

It's really important to weed out people who you don't gel with. However a person does that is irrelevant. Time is short.

What is false self? What is true self? We're always ourselves. Are we acting? Yes. We act. We're alive and that means action. Were we honest? Don't we need to be honest with ourselves before we can be honest with anyone else? Shouldn't we know ourselves the way we really are before we can determine which of our many selfs is currently acting? Which is the true self? Would we know ourself if we met us? Lol!

The contrast between disorder and non is stark to me now. People that call themselves my friends and put me down and entitle themselves to everything that I have are sick. I see the difference in me. I don't entitle myself to anything that isn't mine. I respect other people. I'm considerate and courteous and I feel the radiance of life within me and see the effect that it has on everyone around me. Positive and up-lifting. This is my self as I really am. Those that can't experience themselves this way feel that they need something outside of themselves and they see it in me and try to take it. They can't even grasp that if I could make them see themselves as they really are, I would. So I just be as nice as I can to them and understand that they are sleeping.

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Don't we need to be honest with ourselves before we can be honest with anyone else?

I mean how un logical to yell at me what's my big thing about wanting RESPECT?

A lot of people find that their BPD relationships reopened family of origin (FOO) wounds. This is one reason why the extreme devaluation and end of the relationship is so very devastating, because we've been stripped of our most primal coping mechanisms. See, our false selves are what we constructed to deal with our FOO -- to protect the vulnerable child inside from being hurt and feeling worthless, unlovable, lonely, not good enough. And when, over the course of a BPD relationship, we find that our false selves no longer work, we are left open and vulnerable... .knights with no armor and no weapons.

I mean how un logical to yell at me what's my big thing about wanting RESPECT?

Hey christin you gave me a flashback: I was arguing with my ex once, don't remember about what, but she said "how can you say that?" and I said "well, I'm just using logic." and she said "LOGIC! How I feel is far more important than LOGIC!"  That was the beginning of my understanding that feelings are facts to borderlines.

Yes, most of us were presenting false selves to our pwBPD. No, that doesn't mean we were somehow "fake" or not true to ourselves. In fact, our false self is very much a part of who we are.

False selves are defense mechanisms, complex coping strategies. For people with personality disorders, these false selves are pathological. Non-PD people have false selves, too, but they only emerge in specific situations, unique to the person.

There are certain types of "false selves" that are prone to being activated by relationships with borderlines-- including the Rescuer, the White Knight, the Understanding-Seeker, and the Narcissistic. This is the false self that the borderline attaches to, mirrors, and eventually peels away.

A lot of people find that their BPD relationships reopened family of origin (FOO) wounds. This is one reason why the extreme devaluation and end of the relationship is so very devastating, because we've been stripped of our most primal coping mechanisms. See, our false selves are what we constructed to deal with our FOO -- to protect the vulnerable child inside from being hurt and feeling worthless, unlovable, lonely, not good enough. And when, over the course of a BPD relationship, we find that our false selves no longer work, we are left open and vulnerable... .knights with no armor and no weapons.

Unlike with the borderline, the non-borderline's false self is tied to an inner self. We may be stripped and wounded, but we are still whole. And now, with what we've learned, we can rebuild... .keeping what works and is healthy, casting aside what isn't.

I get it. I guess by the time the end came and we challenge them with reality and integrity it's a mess. I hate this disorder it made me a mess now. Hurting confused low self esteem. I don't have compartments to just put my bad behavior in I actually have to feel my pain. So do most of us here. It's betrayal but to them it's their disorder

To me that vulnerable child is our real self, and we are either used to being and expressing that in a supportive environment or we're not, and expressing it or not is always a choice; if we choose not to we present a false self instead.

I'm opting for simple: there are two kinds of people, the ones who bring us up and the ones who bring us down, and the key to a happy life is to populate it with people who bring us up and remove the ones who bring us down.  When we do that it becomes more and more comfortable, and freeing, to express our true self full time, no need for defense mechanisms.  I'm runnin' with that... .

I would argue that it is a choice only when we become aware we are doing this.  I had no idea how I was using these defense mechanisms and closing off my vulnerable child.  I was deeply in denial!

This is it!  Me too! |iiii

Yep, we made a mistake, or we were deceived, take your pick; that amazing borderline we thought we fell in love with?  That was actually ourselves we were falling in love with.  How cool is that?

That was actually ourselves we were falling in love with.  How cool is that?

So the pwBPDs mirroring and validation and idealization creates a reflection that covers our own insecurities and pain. The pwBPD presents themselves often as the victim so it is a natural fit for them to asume the space where our own pain would be in our psyche. The pwBPD becomes a substitute for our own vulnerable child this part of ourself that is possibly too painful to access becomes accessible through identifying this part of ourself through the pwBPD.

So we fell in love with the image of ourself where the pain we are in ourself belongs to the pwBPD while the pwBPD validates however it is we behaved or wanted to see our self as.  The pwBPD provided us narcisistic supply to provide a mirror to hide our pain so we fell in love with the narcisistic image of our idealized self. 

I wanted to add to this.  So we fell in love with the image of ourself where the pain we are in ourself belongs to the pwBPD while the pwBPD validates however it is we behaved or wanted to see our self as.  The pwBPD provided us narcisistic supply to provide a mirror to hide our pain so we fell in love with the narcisistic image of our idealized self. 

What we are giving our borderline partner is what our own vulnerable child needs

Yes, most of us were presenting false selves to our pwBPD. No, that doesn't mean we were somehow "fake" or not true to ourselves. In fact, our false self is very much a part of who we are.

False selves are defense mechanisms, complex coping strategies. For people with personality disorders, these false selves are pathological. Non-PD people have false selves, too, but they only emerge in specific situations, unique to the person.

There are certain types of "false selves" that are prone to being activated by relationships with borderlines-- including the Rescuer, the White Knight, the Understanding-Seeker, and the Narcissistic. This is the false self that the borderline attaches to, mirrors, and eventually peels away.

A lot of people find that their BPD relationships reopened family of origin (FOO) wounds. This is one reason why the extreme devaluation and end of the relationship is so very devastating, because we've been stripped of our most primal coping mechanisms. See, our false selves are what we constructed to deal with our FOO -- to protect the vulnerable child inside from being hurt and feeling worthless, unlovable, lonely, not good enough. And when, over the course of a BPD relationship, we find that our false selves no longer work, we are left open and vulnerable... .knights with no armor and no weapons.

Unlike with the borderline, the non-borderline's false self is tied to an inner self. We may be stripped and wounded, but we are still whole. And now, with what we've learned, we can rebuild... .keeping what works and is healthy, casting aside what isn't.

A false self hides your inner child for protection against the thought that *you are insignificant, don’t exist, are unworthy, unlovable, doomed to a horrible outcome... .* The false self prevents these deeply repressed thoughts from surfacing. This is a primitive form of your own *splitting* concerning yourself.

When the false self doesn’t work anymore- it’s been challenged. And the only time it was ever challenged in the past was when it was being formed.

It involves your earliest survival instincts to attach to your first object; Mother. It is considered pre-oedipal- meaning it comes before Father enters the picture- at the age between 18 mos. and 3 years, coincidentally, at the time you are beginning to walk, explore and develop the “self.”

And yes, it’s all your Mother’s doing- with a slam dunk refinishing by your Father, once you reach the Oedipal stage- but it’s the earliest object (Mother) that sets the mood for abandonment or engulfment.

Was she able to allow you the freedom to become your own person? (Smothering, Doting, Spoiling = engulfment) Was she there when you returned from exploring? Was she available for support or encouragement? Yes/No? (Neglect, Absenteeism = abandonment)

A child seeks to understand what life is meant to be- (Questions: am I supposed to stay here with Mommy? Can I explore elsewhere? Will Mommy allow it if I go and then return? Will she be mad? All of these questions are determined by the earliest attachment- the earliest role model- the caretaker = and our SURVIVAL depended upon her. The false self was what we had to come up with to please her- by determining what was valuable to her- and guarantee our survival (bond) -this set our survival skill set into our adult lives with OTHER people.

Relying too heavily on this false solution meant the child eliminated the chance at a real self, (one that was REAL and not reactive to capricious and punitive caretakers who were responsible for survival.)

Our false self protected our real person from being hurt. Years later as adults, we select people to hear the same message we learned as children- and we attract them with our false selves- because the false self is what we used initially to help us with the parent.

Scenario 1:

Act i: A child has learned that the greatest valuation is compliance. Thoughtful, respectful, shielded, honorable, valuable. These children sometimes act as little therapists for the family- mediating, caretaking. Their false selves hide the fact that they wish someone would take care of them. They are, in fact, little “parents.”

Fast forward: The child grows into a very capable, considerate, caring adult child- whose self esteem is based on “good.” Their entire lives have been an effort to prove how good they are- and a certain psychological construct is formed of being a Hero/Heroine.

Deep down they wish others would acknowledge the sacrifices they’ve made and see the good- that they see in themselves.

Act ii: Enter Romantic interest- one who mirrors the good and shows an incredible, life affirming spot light of interest in the false self. The adult child thinks, “Finally! My love has arrived! Another human being sees the “good” in me- and I have been proven right. I AM a good person. I can solve anything. I am gifted. I will show this romance that I have come through difficulties and emerged as a mature force. I understand life.”

Act iii. Romantic interest mirrors the false self of the adult child- “yes, I am also a good person. I can solve anything (with you by my side) I see the good in you- BUT you see the good in me too. I am your Hero/Heroine. I will save you.” This is the false self of the Borderline- who has attached to a Host. The substitute stand-in for the Parent.

Act iv: The false self of the Adult Child goes down temporarily due to hidden fears.  The real self emerges- “perhaps Im not as all good as I thought.” The romantic partner, who is now a stand-in for the parent -is she available for support or encouragement? Yes/No?  

No- the romantic partner has substituted the adult child for her own stand-in- the smothering, hypercritical parent. The romantic partner hears “UNHAPPY, FEAR, BAD, WRONG…” and it’s just a flick of the switch to re-live her early childhood.

The idealization of each other has now confirmed each other’s greatest fear- that the real self is lacking- but also, that the false self is no longer WORKING to offset the fear.

Masterson felt that the quest in therapy was to show the reaction formations and reasoning for creation of the false self. This was done in a transference setting with a therapist as a stand-in for the parent- the patient would project onto the therapist the reactive formation- the therapist would identify it and then gently guide and re-program the reactive formations to better suit the true self.

But how many people actually get the chance to do this? How many people actually go into therapy (unless they’ve had a severe crisis?) Most people continue on through their lives with their false selves in place and do just fine.

It’s only when you choose a partner that pushes you into a hard place- that you really understand that’s it’s just your real self fighting to get back to the surface. It’s covered in crud and dying to get a breath.

Act v: Stop fighting with it and let it through. Understand, and grieve the old self. It’s no longer serviceable. Uncover the real you. Your romantic interest was just a tool (literally and figuratively) that dug deep.  

But how many people actually get the chance to do this? How many people actually go into therapy (unless they’ve had a severe crisis?) Most people continue on through their lives with their false selves in place and do just fine.

It’s only when you choose a partner that pushes you into a hard place- that you really understand that’s it’s just your real self fighting to get back to the surface. It’s covered in crud and dying to get a breath.

Act v: Stop fighting with it and let it through. Understand, and grieve the old self. It’s no longer serviceable. Uncover the real you. Your romantic interest was just a tool (literally and figuratively) that dug deep.  

Reading about the dynamics behind the interaction resulted in a true "aha" moment, even a year after the initial breakup.

Most people continue on through their lives with their false selves in place and do just fine.

For me I felt my false self come back.  And it hides painfull memories.  It never really left but it is more intact now than it was.  Actually pinpointing  the pain it hides from me is difficult it is like trying to catch a slimy fish with your hands.

Dreams are a good place to confront this stuff

Reading about the dynamics behind the interaction resulted in a true "aha" moment, even a year after the initial breakup.

So true I'm kinda recognizing this hasn't been just coincidental ?

So true I'm kinda recognizing this hasn't been just coincidental ?

My thoughts exactly.  When the student is ready the teacher appears.  Borderlines exist for a reason, the disorder has made it this far through evolution because it serves a purpose; there are things some of us need to learn, and there's no better motivator than someone who hits us where it hurts, causing us to dig and learn and grow.  And the more I do the more I discover I'm happy with who I am and am exactly who I'm supposed to be, with an added focus of gratitude for myself and my life; we value something more when we lose it and then get it back.  So I agree, the relationship was a gift, one I'm grateful for.

I have been in 30plus days of anger and depression and feeling like a victim . And it's debilitating .

I notice when I look at it like this I can feel peace inside trying more to figure out how I'm gonna better myself and I mean from a different level. I know I was a caretaker consumed in a lot of drama. Things are calm.

I need to do positive recovery from this pain is a motivator .

Hey christin-

I have been in 30plus days of anger and depression and feeling like a victim . And it's debilitating .

Yes, and remember those are phases and the only way out is through, so it's important to feel it as it is, but don't make it worse than it is, one foot in front of the other.  I agree with Happy that rolling with it to see where it takes you is the answer, as opposed to avoiding it or numbing it.

I notice when I look at it like this I can feel peace inside trying more to figure out how I'm gonna better myself and I mean from a different level. I know I was a caretaker consumed in a lot of drama. Things are calm.

Things are calm when we are walking our own path and know it, and if it's a challenge because we're working through something, we also know a wiser us will come out the other side.  Not only is that true, but focusing on it shifts our focus from the past to the future.

I need to do positive recovery from this pain is a motivator .

Yes.  What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?  Sometimes the reasons aren't yet clear, but faith that they will be is a motivating focus.  Take care of you!

shift my focus on my recovery biggg deal for me! My focus has been my ex and at times I am still in it.

My drug. My life. My fantasy . Needs to be changed all that disillusion . I was treated very bad from a sick person .

I still care about my ex but differently.  I want peace in me too much turmoil has been my existence .

So true I'm kinda recognizing this hasn't been just coincidental ? I'm actually being pushed more than ever to take a true look deeper than ever. It's just a beginning I'm kinda done blaming and being pissed. I am grieving and anger is the core but its reading deeper subjects that are pointing to myself. What a interesting travel we all have. From such fallout .

I feel like I am on a similar path of self exploration. I find myself getting angry sometimes, too. But I usually notice that my anger is incoherent, an incoherent rant in my head. Then when I pause and ask myself what I am really angry about... .I try to think of the key issue or issues... .invariably, I just smile as  the truth hits me... .the truth that I am still attached to her.

No, I was not presenting a false self. On the other hand, now that she's gone I an able to be more authentic. Under her influence I was more negative and agressive than what is natural for me. But that was not a self I presented to her. It was just something she expected from me. There was no room for my peaceful nature in her conflict oriented world.

And in a way she didn't give a ___ about my self (false or authentic). She just wanted to know if I was WITH her or AGAINST her.

When we broke up after 20 years it turned up she didn't know me very well at all. Like a fleeting aquintance. I tried so hard to be truthful, good, loyal and honest. I think I was too, but the reason it somehow rang hollow... .in hindsight it propably was that she was never really there.

There was really no need to impress or manipulate. From day one I felt like the relationship was out of my control. She was the captain and she didn't really care much what I was up to.

These are very good points, Blimblam.

The borderline partner mirrors this false self, but like you said, they can only mirror what they see, what we present. This does result in an idealized reflection... .and a shallow one. The borderline's mirror image is without the foundation of our core self -- the very self that created these defense mechanisms, for very real reasons -- and incapable of growth or change.

We project our own vulnerable child needs and expectations onto our borderline partner - made easy because, as you said, the borderline often presents as a victim. We use our "false self" to try to save, love, understand, etc., that vulnerable child we see within the pwBPD.

What we are giving our borderline partner is what our own vulnerable child needs.

The false and true selves come from psychoanalytic theory. The idea that the "false self" is what we created very early on to please our caregiver - that we molded our little selves into what we perceived would "please" them - resonates with me. I feel it somewhere deep down and long ago - and it was this false self that I unconsciously presented to my ex .  How interesting that my strength, my "capable-ness", my independence, my intelligence - were all things that my mother valued in me.  Many in this thread have also identified these characteristics as their own - and ones that their ex's were attracted to initially. I know my ex was.  And my false self was reinforced when it appeared to be what she wanted... .I became even stronger, more capable, more of the problem solver in the r/s... .while she regressed further and further. That dynamic - that imbalance of power - is eventually what destroyed the r/s on both sides.  I began to resent the load I was carrying.  And she began to resent feeling like a child.

hmmmm... .

This describes to a T my relationship with my ex BPD -- the more confident and capable I became, the more she unraveled. Though I wasn't actually becoming more confident and capable but rather was investing more and more into the idea of myself as confident and capable. In reality my confidence was slowly being stripped away -- and the more this happened, the more invested still I had to be in the idea and image of my confident self.

My confidence and stability are what allowed her to "let go" and just dissolve because she knew that I would take care of things. And that was my false self, this self that claimed it could handle anything and never crack.

I think her idealization of my false self created a bit of a monster in me - it encouraged me to be too dominant in the r/s.

what is often perceived as empowermemt is often a way of reinforcing the ego defence mechanisms of the false self

That's the thing is the false self wants to focus on things that empower it.  You have shifted the focus into being happy.  There's nothing wrong with being happy but happiness is just one crayon in the box.

I am not against personal empowerment but what is often perceived as empowermemt is often a way of reinforcing the ego defence mechanisms of the false self.

The part that is empowering is becoming aware of our own projections and understanding when someone else is and seeking forgiveness.  It is a painfull process to actually do it because we confront our own shame and pain which is a valid part of our existance just as much as happiness.

Yes  :'(  I was wrong about that - this r/s took me to the brink of "cracking."

I did become more "confident and capable" - for a while.  And I don't mean to cast this in a positive light.  I think her idealization of my false self created a bit of a monster in me - it encouraged me to be too dominant in the r/s. When she rejected my false self - or pushed me off the pedestal - or devalued me - or whatever you want to name it - when she started going outside our r/s (and cheating) is when my confidence and self esteem was rapidly stripped away. 

But the false self doesn't die an easy death - I redoubled my efforts, confident that I could solve this problem the way I solved all my other problems - with persistence, with intelligence, and through sheer force of will.

Ohmigod... .you mean all the "parenting" I did for her "vulnerable child" was what I always wanted for myself?  WOW.  Just, wow, wow, and wow again.

The idea that the "false self" is what we created very early on to please our caregiver - that we molded our little selves into what we perceived would "please" them - resonates with me. I feel it somewhere deep down and long ago - and it was this false self that I unconsciously presented to my ex .  How interesting that my strength, my "capable-ness", my independence, my intelligence - were all things that my mother valued in me.

And my false self was reinforced when it appeared to be what she wanted... .I became even stronger, more capable, more of the problem solver in the r/s... .while she regressed further and further.

That dynamic - that imbalance of power - is eventually what destroyed the r/s on both sides.  I began to resent the load I was carrying.  And she began to resent feeling like a child.

Happiness is awesome, but like Blimblam said, it's just one part of the wide variety of the human experience. Sweeping our pain, shame, shortcomings, fears, etc. under the rug in favor of feeling happy and "empowered" all the time is not genuinely empowering, and certainly doesn't allow for much enlightenment, growth, or change.

Plus, what would happiness and joy be without pain and sadness?

I did become more "confident and capable" - for a while.  And I don't mean to cast this in a positive light.  I think her idealization of my false self created a bit of a monster in me - it encouraged me to be too dominant in the r/s. When she rejected my false self - or pushed me off the pedestal - or devalued me - or whatever you want to name it - when she started going outside our r/s (and cheating) is when my confidence and self esteem was rapidly stripped away.  

But the false self doesn't die an easy death - I redoubled my efforts, confident that I could solve this problem the way I solved all my other problems - with persistence, with intelligence, and through sheer force of will.

Mmhmmm.  |iiii

My relationship played out similarly, jhkbuzz although a few details of course differ (e.g., my brand of 'caretaking' involves submissive compliance). Like you, when I got pushed off my pedestal, I just pushed harder, refusing to accept defeat - this has to work, it worked before! - until finally, I knew what it was like to be truly and thoroughly beaten, defenseless, and vulnerable.

Ohmigod... .you mean all the "parenting" I did for her "vulnerable child" was what I always wanted for myself?  WOW.  Just, wow, wow, and wow again.

Yes. :)

As a child, when you were being a Little Parent, didn't your heart and soul just yearn for someone to take care of you? Did you wish someone would love, accept, understand, and validate you for who you were and who you wanted to be?

Did anyone ever fulfill those needs?

The idea that the "false self" is what we created very early on to please our caregiver - that we molded our little selves into what we perceived would "please" them - resonates with me. I feel it somewhere deep down and long ago - and it was this false self that I unconsciously presented to my ex .  How interesting that my strength, my "capable-ness", my independence, my intelligence - were all things that my mother valued in me.

How interesting indeed.  This sounds like something that definitely warrants deeper exploration.

And my false self was reinforced when it appeared to be what she wanted... .I became even stronger, more capable, more of the problem solver in the r/s... .while she regressed further and further.

Exactly. The borderline attaches to that false self you're projecting, and then adapts him-/herself accordingly.

Without a stable sense of self, borderlines are always looking to their environment for cues on "who" to be. (This is why they can seem to have different "personalities" in different relationships.) It's like they keep thinking, "Maybe this self will be The One!" But, as you well know, that can't be sustained. Eventually resentment, disillusionment, and disappointment build up. The borderline realizes that this borrowed 'self' doesn't work any better than all the past borrowed selves. Instead of the idealized "savior," the partner now becomes the dumping ground for all of the borderline's deep-seated resentment, negativity, and "badness."

That dynamic - that imbalance of power - is eventually what destroyed the r/s on both sides.  I began to resent the load I was carrying.  And she began to resent feeling like a child.

I can only turn again to 2010's eloquent words on this subject--

Waifs will attach to those they perceive to be dominant (usually "rescuer". The borderline then cries foul when their submissiveness becomes so extreme and equality in the relationship is so askew that it gives the partner an appearance of taskmaster, and the borderline a reasonable "out" based on their inner persecutorial ideas of reference.

It's completely normal to expect an adult partner to carry their fair share of the load in a relationship. Unless, of course, you're dealing with a pwBPD.  

The thing to look at, then, is why you are drawn to this "one-up, one-down" relationship dynamic - with the assumption/expectation that putting in time, effort, and love will eventually "pull" the other person up to the same level - instead of entering into relationships on equal footing and growing together.

Someone mentioned on a thread that what we presented to our exes was a false self, which they then attached to.  I fought that at first, no! I said to myself, I was real, open and honest with her, she got the real me.  Well was I?  I thought so then and I more or less think so now, but digging some, we try and make good first impressions with people, we try and put our best foot forward, accentuate our strengths, try to be liked, all well and good, but is that a false self?  Is that lying?  I say no, within context.  I was attracted to her, there was sexual tension between us and I was nervous, but that didn't last very long, maybe a week, then we had sex, I got comfortable, and it was off to the races.  False self?  I say not, but how about you guys?

I've been focusing on that now, in fact it's become fun to blurt out my truth early, maybe right after I meet someone, and sometimes it's considered Too Much Information, sometimes it's met with a frown and no reciprocation, and sometimes someone lights up, gets comfortable, and shares what's going on with them, a real connection is born.  Of course it's context-specific, someone says hello how are you we don't want to be blurting out the early trauma we're still processing, it's socially unacceptable, but let's transcend the small talk shall we, and get real?  It's about having a clue about what to say when, but for me it serves double purpose: it weeds out people I don't necessarily want to know better early and it's doing what I want to be doing, being real.

Thoughts?

Going places,


You said your motto is, "you get what you get don't throw a fit."  Who is saying what essentially, stop whinning, and who is it that is whining?

Why is the child whining? And why is the child not allowed to whine?