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Why do we feel the need to rescue? I understand that I have a tendency to do this, and that it was a big problem in my marriage.

Other people might've met my ex and thought, "Wow, that's a lot of hard luck. You've had a tough time. I hope you get a break and can start rebuilding your life."

But no, not me. I thought "Wow, people really hurt you. I would never do that to you because you're so wonderful. I'm going to be the first person to love you properly."

It barely registered that none of my efforts to rescue were effective. I just kept doing the same thing, over and over again, expecting different results. It wasn't until I started to understand boundaries -- really understand them -- that I realized I had this instinct or compulsion to rescue, even when it wasn't effective or safe for me to do so. I still struggle with this, although I'm doing a lot better.

What do you do when you feel the urge to rescue or fix? Do you recognize when it's happening? Are there times when it's ok to rescue? What's the hardest part about not rescuing someone when you feel the urge to?

I know what you mean. I too looked at someone wonderful who seemed so lovely, sweet, kind, funny and beautiful, who had a run of "hard luck" in relationships but even more so in life... .And i too sought to rescue. many many cycles of insanity from her and rescue attempts by me only contributed to the downfall and sour grapes.

I feel i might/could do it again. I'm a sucker for a pretty face. I saw so much potential in her, I ignored all sense of internal caution.

What do i do when i feel the urge to rescue or fix? I guess i look toward selfish interests. But not really all that selfish. Have you read "Boundaries" by Dr. Henry Cloud? Really puts in perspective a persons "over-active" do-goodedness and what you do not owe people. I really think that book would answer your questions. It has been a tremendous asset in my life, although it didn't help my situation with the uBPDxwife.

My need to rescue, fix, or help is an inherent personality trait.  Although my tendency to rescue, fix, or help is inherent, it became maladaptive. The maladaptive behavior originated in childhood, where I learned to be a "people pleaser" or "self-sacrificing" to appease others. I was taught that putting yourself first is "selfish." I did not want to be selfish, so I continued this behavior.

A lack of boundaries in my relationship exacerbated this trait and the majority of the time I would get angry or upset that I was constantly "self-sacrificing" and giving so much without getting the same amount reciprocated. My expectations of receiving the same amount back were unrealistic. My unrealistic expectations caused quite a bit of conflict in my relationship.

Also, constantly helping, rescuing, or fixing becomes mentally exhausting.

Through therapy and being more self-aware, I learned to establish boundaries, put my needs first sometimes, and to say no to things I do not want to do.  I still enjoy helping others, but I have stopped taking responsibility or "fixing" all of their problems. When someone asks me for help, I point them in the right direction and am supportive.  If I am getting drained from helping, I learned it is okay to take a step back and focus on myself; that does not make me selfish.

I would also argue that, at least for me, that the 'fixer' comes as a component to 'commitment'

My T said that there is nothing wrong with being a Rescuer. It's just when we let those traits run amok and make poor choices that we have problems.

Rescuing can be a mercy that the world needs. Many professions are literally rescuer professions. As for me personally? I took pride (self-worth) in relating to (soothing) disordered or "lost" girls from a very young age. My boundaries lacked solidity.

I could relate it back to "that's all I ever knew growing up" and my BPD mom ensured that we usually hung around other people with problems. You don't know what you don't know. At this point, I feel the need to stay back and relax with myself, even if it means not being Mr. Nice Guy sometimes, or if some people may think I'm a jerk. No one actually says that, it could just be the punitive parental voice inside of me who wants to be nice and kind towards everyone. Again, there's nothing wrong at all with kindness, but it needs to be backed up by solid personal boundaries.

There's a difference between rescuing and caring/helping.  I honestly don't think I have a desire to control, but I have an extreme desire to not be controlled, a component of the fierce independence inherent in my INTJ personality type.  So one way to not be controlled is to control.  And then there's the People Pleaser aspect; give someone something you want and hopefully they'll reciprocate, give to get, put someone else's needs first.  And then there's the self esteem issue; find someone more fcked up than me to rescue, to make me feel better about myself, sick sht that.  Plus, if I was to permanently fulfill the role of rescuer with someone, and they the rescuie, I would be in the one-up up position with them in the one-down, unless they're crafty and using their needs to control me, which is codependency.

Lotta crap going on there, but at least I'm aware of it.  Let's keep it simple: help and care about people, rescue them when they need it, let them rescue me when I need it, and develop 50/50 partnerships where control is not even a focus so one-up and one-down positions are irrelevant.  Hey, it's a goal, and it's easier to hit the target when you know what it looks like.

I think this really captures it for me, much as I hate to admit it:

"Being a caretaker can lead to a heady feeling of being a strong, wise, and needed person. Playing this role as a child can make you feel equal or even superior to the adults in the family. Unfortunately, being a caretaker means learning to be overly vigilant of the needs of others and pretty much ignorant of your own feelings, needs and reactions. But you may not even notice that since you are so focused on the BPD/NPD."

That's from an article by Randi Kreger: Are You An Emotional Caretaker (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=224276.0)

It's been challenging for me to not rescue. I love the feeling of being strong, wise, and needed, to be honest. It's strange to think that when I'm not rescuing, I feel weak, and sometimes I've even felt lost. But that's how I felt, especially in the beginning when I began to check myself. I had to start paying attention to the feelings that came up, both when I had the urge to rescue someone, and when I resisted those urges. They were pretty painful feelings.

Something else that Randi wrote, "You, however, see the clues but don't leave. Instead you feel drawn in, you may feel normal, you may feel the BPD/NPD needs you, and you may feel rewarded for your rescuer responsibilities. You feel a level of excitement and hope."

I'm not sure I felt excitement. I think I felt worth, like I had a purpose. I've seen people write a lot about whether their BPD ex loved them, but sometimes I wonder if I felt love. I believed it was love, but in the absence of being able to rescue my ex, I'm not sure I would've been as compelled to get involved with him. And if he didn't need me, maybe I would not have felt enough self-esteem.

Did anyone else feel that way?

I could't have said it any better

I became aware of my lifelong tendency to rescue people sometime in the last few years.  By that point, I was so enmeshed with my ex that I couldn't really break the behavior with her.  On other fronts, however, this awareness has allowed me to recognize when my rescuer behavior is trigger and at least attempt to think before acting.  It doesn't mean I do not rescue, but I at least consider all the variables an potential repercussions in advance.  If the process of rescuing is not detrimental to myself, I'll likely still allow myself to fill the role.  If it's detrimental though, I make a point of forcing myself to not act on the urge.

The real challenge will be seeing how well I can control the urge when the time comes to re-enter the dating game.  Only then will I be able to truly tell if my previous attraction to women in need of a white knight has been controlled.

My SO has an uBPDxw that's how I originally found myself here a part of this very diverse BPD Family.   *)

However, I have my own story too.  I was married to an alcoholic for almost 20 years so I know and freely admit I was a co-dependent enabler in that relationship.  But since being here and posting I have come to realize that I have rescued every serious boyfriend I've ever had.    I've had 5 serious relationships (1 year or longer) in my 51 years. 4 came from single mother households, 2 were abandoned/adopted, 1 I now suspect was BPD, 1 was physically abusive, 1 was an alcoholic, 1 had an alcoholic mother, and 1 has a uBPDxw.  I've always considered myself a nurturer which I have always felt was a positive. I have also felt that in spite of their various problems that all of the men in my life had "a good heart" and I now of course know that even though that might be true I wasn't necessarily in a relationship that was good for me.   Since being here I now see I have a life long pattern.  I too have been mulling over why this has been my way and to some extent still is.  I will say that I have over the last few years learned some lessons that have put me in the most healthy relationship I've ever been in... .in spit of his uBPDxw. 

5 years ago I had a breakdown... .that became a series of breakthroughs.  After coming out the otherside I came up with a list of lessons I learned.  Several relate to rescuing/co-dependent behaviors.

This was my list:

Love the people you love and express it so they know it.

Express what you feel no matter what you think other people will think

Stop trying to control everything you can't

Accept support form the people that care about you

Ask for help when you need it

Don't try to cover up things that are negative... .resolve or let them go

Be who you are... .don't let anyone devalue and the things that are important to you

Don't sacrifice yourself completely to the needs of others... .be a little selfish

Learn and try new things

Have fun and be silly

Be a good friend to others... .support those that support you

Listen

All the bolded items are all in response to my co-dependent/rescuer traits.  I still have the urge to rescue and do but with better boundaries around it than I used to.  What I'm trying to figure out is how did it all begin where does it come from.  I know it makes me feel good to do (up to a point) so I'm sure that's part of the compulsion but what's missing in me that is filled by doing this?

I'm probably more of a fixer than a rescuer.

One way I get around some of it is by realizing how invalidating it is. For example:

In my last MC session, the T was preparing homework for us--he was making a copy of an audio CD that he wanted us to listen to, and think about (and occasionally discuss). He is old enough that he didn't grow up with computers. [I am a geek who did grow up with computers] He was muttering a bit about how he was trying to figure out / remember how to do this. His computer screen was positioned so that I couldn't see anything of it. (fortunately) This took a while.

I caught myself WANTING to stand up, walk over, look at his screen and figure out how to get his computer doing what he wanted to do it.

I had some time to sit there and watch my own thoughts about this.

I knew how inappropriate it would be. I even knew it would be boundary busting behavior. I didn't do anything. But I did want to relieve him of the difficulty he was having figuring out his computer, either by showing him how to do something or by doing it for him.

If you are dealing with a (relatively) emotionally healthy individual, one cue to watch for is whether you are asked for help, or whether you volunteer it.

I say emotionally healthy because some waif-ish or victim types may ask for help directly.

It does seem to be about awareness - if you are aware you are rescuing or want to rescue, that's when it's important to sit back and understand the motive behind the need to do so.  I don't see anything wrong with helping someone out.  For me, I feel I am balancing my needs with others much better, but when it comes to the ones I love, it is more difficult.


It seems I tend to develop strong feelings for someone first, and then the rescuing comes into play.  I don't believe I chose someone or another because they needed to be rescued.  I initially chose them because they had some exciting qualities that I was drawn to.  When the rescuing starts, it can create a feeling of worth, because you think you are helping someone you care about.  That is a worthy thing.  It's when, as Turkish mentions, you start valuing someone elses needs over yours and make poor decisions because of it that needs to be looked at and addressed.  I'm not sure if it made me want to stay in the situations I've been in... .I was just looking to make the relationship work because I did feel I truly loved them.  Hindsight, ya know?  

I "rescued" a pwBPD today. A very old friend, kind of like a sister whom I've know for 30 years. I brought her rent money. I had it. This will be the only time. I sat with her by the ocean for over two hours, my arm around her. We talked about a lot, and old times when we were kids. She's actually diagnosed with BPD (and other things). After all these years, there's still a mutual attraction, but we're two very different people. I gave her a chaste kiss goodbye, and she returned it, nothing more. I don't know why I did it (the monetery rescuing), but I did. I've done it before with others, and with my BPD mom. I did those things because I could, expecting no repayment. My T said, in regards to my uBPDx and my BPD mom, "sometimes the strong are chosen to protect the weak."  I get what he said, and in the end, it comes down to s an boundaries, and not making "covert contracts" to feel better about ourselves.

This is so true for me, W2K. All of the men in my life have been "chief" types who are very competent in one way or another. But at some point, there was a story or event in which he was portrayed as a victim, and I felt a switch turn on in me. "That other person hurt you, but I'm special and strong and won't do that and we'll fall even more deeply in love."

I definitely dealt with my family of origin dysfunction by investing a lot in the role of the "strong" child.

The big aha moment for me in thinking about this is recognizing that my narcissistic father, a very chauvinistic man, managed everything in our family by trying to turn off any emotional faucets. Any time there was anything remotely emotional or dramatic or based on feelings, he made sure it was handled in a way where the feelings were shut off. My mother was a constant crier and I viewed her as weak. So my dad managed our family in a way that made sure no one got my mom emotional. It never worked -- I realize now she was crying because of the way he managed things.

Often when I rescued people, I kinda did the same thing. I would rescue them thinking that this would prevent worse feelings from being felt.

Wow  .This describes me and my whole life.I hope I can get to the other side of this with help in T.I am a sucker for a pretty woman that needs to be rescued.Thanks for this post. |iiii

Good observation, LnL!

Thinking about it, I'm not sure that it was that I felt I was so special and strong.  It was more about me having compassion for their situation, and wanting to show them how their perspectives were skewed.  With healthy people, everyone has their moment of feeling low, and sometimes all it takes is a change of thinking/doing something to get you out of the funk.  With unhealthy people, this can be draining and distracting to our own goals, as these moments for them are so frequent.

It is about understanding, awareness and boundaries, as has been mentioned in this thread. 

Where I still have work to do is letting it go - not letting their problems rent space in my head.  I'm pretty solid about not actually doing the rescuing anymore, but turning off the thoughts about them on a daily basis is a hard thing to do.  That's where filling that space with other passions of mine is something I am starting to see is necessary.

According to my T.

People that tend to save and rescue have ''control'' issues.

We also do it to feel good about ourselves.So I seem to get my ''self value''  AND ''self esteem'' from using sicker people to save and rescue.This is not the way to do it.

This behavior brings me a sense of control,leadership,self worth.I walk around like I am the king because look at what I am doing here.

I am thinking Martyr/Victim when it all blows up in my face.

Just some thoughts.

Do you think that you can feel compassionate for them at the same time you feel that you're special/strong? Only in retrospect do I see the special/strong part of my thinking. Like NYMike said, for me it brought me a sense of control, leadership, self worth. I was needed. It was like a whole bunch of tiny soldiers stood up and got ready to protect and serve. I can see now, in retrospect, how that kind of thing really hooked me. In my current relationship, I'm able to toggle the switch off if something flips it on.


I believe back then that rescuing was my goal. Being with someone who felt victimized or who struggled to function in core ways was a pretty good match for what I brought to the table. That's how I defined love -- you be the victim, and I rescue you. That makes me "good." (Or special, strong, compassionate, etc.)


I swung the other way for a while, more toward flat-out avoidant behavior. I'm in a healthy relationship (secure attachment for the win!) although both of us have been very codependent in the past. It's been interesting because I see his fixer/rescuer stuff, and have to watch my own. I think there is another side to rescuing/fixing, which is letting other people take care of you. I seem to love it and resist it at the same time. Love it, because who doesn't want to have someone show kindness, thoughtfulness, and compassion? But also resist it because it can feel like he's trying to take something out of my hands while I'm working on it. As though I can't do it -- that's teaching me how it feels to be on the receiving end of codependence.

Hi,

I feel the same way to rescue him. I would recommand a book "stop caretaking the borderline". Then I understand myself more.

There are also traits of us to be a caretaker. It is good for us in life, but not really good for a borderline relationship.

I just decided to leave. And find back myself. Because my life was only about him, I got lost because of my love.

Caretaker is someone who believes logic can always win, who believes unconditional love can heal everything.

But we can't. That is the sad truth.

I would only go to the church, and pray for him. Otherwise, I can't do anything.

Like how you put that, apple2.  It is a heady feeling to be the White Knight, at least temporarily.  I suspect that the need to caretake is tied in with low self-esteem, because we help others in order to feel good about ourselves and boost our own self-esteem.  Problem is, this is a shifting foundation on which to base one's self-worth.

LuckyJim

Over the last couple of years I've become very aware that the urge to rescue and fix are strong traits of mine.

They shaped a lot of my behaviour and my choice of partner and friends.

Being around people who were damaged or dysfunctional, people who elicited or needed (at least to me) sympathy, support and guidance allowed me feel worthy, heroic and strong.

Being around healthier people would have been much more challenging to my self esteem. Rescuing was a defence mechanism that enabled me to avoid confronting myself and my own issues, which would have been painful and uncomfortable work that I wasn't willing to do.  

It is surprisingly habitual and I'm still working hard to fight the compulsion. Even now after some revelation from therapy or increased awareness I can still find myself fantasising how some insight I've learned could be applied to help fix a friend, family member or even my ex.

I've noted that my urge to rescue seems to be particularly triggered when I'm experiencing or aware of uncomfortable or painful feelings. It triggers something and my gaze automatically shifts outwards onto to others and their problems etc.

I have this image of myself as a cat on a hot tin roof

Being responsible for my own choices it hard and being present with feelings of grief, loneliness, is painful.

I have got better and as soon as I find myself trying to fix or rescue I stop and remind myself that my primary responsibility is to myself, that others are separate and deserve the space and oppertunity to live their own lives, make their own choices and find their own healing.

That trying to fix or rescue others is controlling, unhealthy and nearly always ends badly and that it keeps me stuck

I'm getting better, but it's up an uphill slog

Good top Lived...

Reforming

Sit down, thing logically not emotionally.

99 out of 100 times, after removing emotions and only thinking logically, I do not continue in rescue mode.


Yes. When I start to get that "rush" or "heart gush".

That's when I shut down the 'feelings' and engage the brain.


That 1 time out of 100... .and it makes logical sense; yes.


1. The control. The feeling of control.

2. The ego rush. I may 'know' something about something, and want to badly for someone else to know that something... .and when I get to tell them show them that *I* know a better way, etc... .it's that ego rush. Almost like a power trip, but different. If I don't get to rescue someone else might... .and then they will get the credit, and I will look like a failure. That kind of ego boost.

3. Not having any drama in my life. If I am always in rescue mode, then there is ALWAYS drama in my life.


1. No drama to over work my adrenal glands / cortisol dump. Therefore my body actually gets to rest, my sleep is good, and my mind is not chronically a mess. Eliminating all the 'drama' (IE those who need 'rescued' has been AMAZING.

2. It's humbling. I have plenty of work to do on myself, and I am the only one who will stand before God and give an account; so I really need to focus on THIS GIRL!

3. Control is an illusion. It's like chasing the wind. The only think I truly have 'control' of is myself. My reactions, My actions, My choices.

Once I stopped trying to control the situation, people, circumstances, outcomes... .it has been liberating.

4. No, means no. Done, means done.

Fear... .Thanks for articulating this for me.




I still struggle with this but I too am getting better at seeing when it's happening and better at hearing feedback from other people about it (friends have actually pointed things out to me at different times)... .then letting things go that are not my responsibility.

I think we also rescue because at some deep level we want to be rescued ourselves.

I certainly had an idealised image of myself as altruistic, unselfish, but deep down there was an unrealistic expectation, even a demand that the person I was rescuing would reciprocate and rescue me.

At some deep level i was trying to surrender responsibility for myself and my life to someone else

I think I was always aware at some level that my focus on others was unhealthy, and evasive, but I now I realise that is also controlling.

It's much harder to rescue yourself. It's requires a willingness to look behind your idealised image of yourself and confront your own flaws and vulnerabilities.

In schema they describe the tendency to focus primarily on others and their needs as being other directed;

"Other-Directedness

(An excessive focus on the desires, feelings, and responses of others, at the expense of one’s own needs in order to gain love and approval, maintain one’s sense of connection, or avoid retaliation. Usually involves suppression and lack of awareness regarding one’s own anger and natural inclinations. Typical family origin is based on conditional acceptance"

The challenge for me now to be present with the vulnerable part of myself, recognise it's needs and treat them with compassion and empathy

Reforming

Agree, Reforming.  Rescuing, I suspect, allows us to avoid confronting our own feelings of inadequacy.  Caretaking provides a socially-acceptable cover for us to hide from our own feelings, which are too painful to face.

LuckyJim

Wow.!... This is me all my life.I am in T working on all of this.Thank You for this perfect insight.If I had a printer,i would print this out and put it on my Fridge.

This whole post is so helpful. Thank you everyone.

Reforming, this has given me a lot to think about:


I felt the whole ground shift when I slowed down to consider this. What I'm wondering is if the deal had to involve co-rescuing. Because I can think of a lot of healthy men that passed through my life and they weren't broken enough for me, even though maybe they could've rescued me. I think I needed someone equally in need of fixing so that I didn't lose that sense of being strong. That seemed to be an important dynamic, looking back.

I think that there is some element to truth in this as it relates to me as well... .but isn't that the case for all of us? Aren't we all looking for a safe harbor, unconditional love? Is fixing someone a flaw of sorts or is it a a conditioned social moray?

I think it's a matter of degrees. I remember reading somewhere that we either focus on others at the expense of ourselves, or we focus on ourselves at the expense of others. What we're ultimately going for is a constant, dynamic balance somewhere in the healthy zone between the two. Sometimes, I focus on myself at the expense of others. Sometimes I focus on others at the expense of myself. When I was with N/BPDx, I focused on him at the expense of myself (and my son) all the time. I tended to be this way in my family, and also with friends.

But now it's not just all one way, or mostly one way. It's a mix.

It's also interesting for me now because I can see that I played the rescuer role a lot of times in the Karpmann drama triangle, and that really sucked. And it never fixed anything anyway. I'm trying to play more of the coach role (from The Empowerment Dynamic (http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empowerment_Dynamic) or TED model), and that seems to fulfill some of my instincts to rescue without letting myself be drawn into the drama stuff.

So fixing someone does feel like a flaw, at least the way I did it. But coaching someone, which seems like a combination of positive rescuing + boundaries, that feels like a social moray.

focus on others at the expense of ourselves, or we focus on ourselves at the expense of others.

In between these two somewhere, must lie a healthy equilibrium. I like this trait about myself and will have to think a bit to judge if it comes as a detriment to myself.

It has taken me 3.5 years to get to this place after spending 25 years with Mr. Monster.

Be patient with yourself.

I chose NOT to see a T but I did go see an advocate who was extremely helpful.

I have read A LOT on line, read a ton of med books / help books, and i pray... .A LOT A LOT.

Heal you. YOU are the most important person you know. If you are not healthy, everything gets messy.

Ask me how I know! :) :)

Hi LivedandLearned,

It's a really helpful thread and a great topic.

I think you are absolutely right in that the challenge is to strike a healthy balance between being focussed on ourselves and not really present or available and being so focussed the other person that we try to take responsibility for them and even control their behaviour

To be a supportive, loving partner who listens and gives encouragement, while remembering that you and your partner are separate and not responsible for each other's choices, actions or happiness. Critically I think it's about understanding our own needs and how they can be met and who should meet them.

By that I mean I realise that it's unrealistic and unhealthy to expect another, no matter how healthy to meet my most important needs. That's my job and I'm the only one who can do that.

I think we try to rescue to damaged people because it makes us feel powerful and less vulnerable and we believe that damaged people won't draw attention our own weaknesses. As most of us have discovered the opposite is true

JRT. I think the concept of unconditional is unrealistic and gets us into trouble. Is it healthy to love someone who is destructive or treats you will disrespect and cruelty?

I accept that we all make mistakes and go through bad patches but healthy love is conditional because it requires mutual respect, care and accountability.

Reforming

Very true. I've been listening to an audiobook (MC homework), "Holding on to yourself in relationships" by Alan Berger.

He describes that challenge--focusing on both yourself and your relationship as critical in a relationship. And also describes that most people tend to lose one of those two, and that it doesn't matter which one you lose--it will mess up the r/s equally, but in different ways.

He also claims that the two are not actually in conflict, and that figuring that out is the sort of hard work we need to do. I'm inclined to agree--the healthy zone is one where you pay attention to both.

As for being/staying true to yourself within a r/s, I had someone describe it like this:  love is the acorn.  With sunshine and water (two distinct individuals),  it can be nurtured and grown into a mighty oak.  If there's too much water, or too much sun, there is little growth.  You need the perfect balance in order to have your love grow strong.  I thought it was a pretty good analogy.

As for rescuing, I really feel like I am constantly being pushed to rescue my BPDh.  He is constantly asking for help, asking where things are, asking what he should do.  I've realized by reading these posts just how important it is not to give in to these.  He reacts like a spoiled child who's mother has denied him his favourite cookie when I don't jump to his rescue, but if I just let him reaction without reacting myself, and continue to encourage him to do things for himself, he gets stronger, and asks less.

I was the mediator as a child.  My parents fought a lot, and would eventually let me lead the conversation, stop them when they were saying things that were hurtful to each other, and ask questions that allowed both of them to say what they wanted to say, and be heard.  I don't know why they ever let me lead this way, it started at a very young age, like probably 9 or 10.  And I have no idea where I got the knowledge I had about keeping things on the level, I just did what I felt needed to be done.   

I think, for me, I am pretty sure it has been my lack of self-esteem that has left me with unhealthy partners, coupled with the need to 'help' or 'fix things'.  I don't think I ever had the courage to risk loving someone that is emotionally strong, for fear it will bring out my weaknesses, like Reforming said.  This holds a lot of truth for me, and really is tasty food for thought.

Thanks for sharing!

What a rough question Lived, 

Where does a person find this answer?  Where is line between compassion, caring and commitment not just to our partners, but also our children?  We all have different value systems, to some, to me, part of my value system was placing my faith and family first.  Even when I began to recognize the severity or dysfunction in my BPD - what of my children.   Was it better for them, for me to go…or to stay?  I chose to stay – until I could stay no longer.  Was this the right choice…only time will tell now?   

On a deeper level, those who know compassion most, are usually those who have suffered the most.  For myself at least, it was surviving a difficult FOO that gave me a greater compassion for others.  Why is rescuing a bad thing.   Is it a bad thing?  I grew up on stories of good and evil, good and bad in the world – don’t we all want to be the good guy or girl.  Don’t we all want to be the hero? Didn’t we all want live happily ever after?  Like most boys, didn’t we all want to grow up to be a knight in shining armor, to slay dragons?  Don’t most girls want to be rescued by prince charming?  Isn’t this part of our culture – isn’t this a good part of our heritage and values as a culture?  Because we are co-dependent and experienced difficult FOO – does this mean we deserved a BPD who fooled us and took advantage of us?  No, of course it does not, and yet FOO is at least partly the cause of ending up with a BPD?   

Of course, then comes boundaries.  Even as I fell in love with my BPD, the red flags were everywhere. I ignored them.  Love makes people do silly things to begin with, throw in a little people pleaser, rescuer personality defect – and we were done from the start – at least I was.   

Yet, when the dysfunction becomes so severe and the red flags become red cannons of suffering – where does a person find boundaries in the FOG.   What you wrote is true, at least for me: 

"Wow, people really hurt you. I would never do that to you because you're so wonderful. I'm going to be the first person to love you properly."

In my BPD relationship that is now ended…this is exactly how it began and continued, and a defective FOO or not, my desire to be kind and caring was not the problem.  It was the lack of boundaries, once I knew there was a serious problem.   This is where being the rescuer and fixer became skewed into being abused – and allowing it to continue with no boundaries.   To care for and help others is compassion and kindness – and these are good qualities.  It is lack of boundaries and allowing others to hurt us or accept abuse in the name of rescuing and caring – this is where I went wrong.       

Reforming,

I so agree with so much of what you say.  However, if I may make one point…

In almost every relationship book I’ve ever read…unconditional love IS listed as part of the formula for a healthy relationship.   Loving unconditionally is giving love without condition – to love a person wholly including their flaws. In a healthy relationship this is a two way deal and of course if it is not returned then it is not a healthy relationship. 

Giving unconditional love is a good thing – so long as it is given to a healthy person and returned in a healthy way.   

Of course a BPD can never do this so, at least in my opinion, it was not the giving that was wrong or the problem.  It comes right back to the questions of establishing boundaries and not giving such a treasure to someone who won’t or can’t return it.  Unconditional love well placed – is what I one day hope to find in another healthy person – who will give it back to me.     

Hi Survived

I completely agree that choosing a healthy partner is critical, but I think many of us stay in these relationships too long because we believed that unconditional love is the foundation of a healthy relationship.

I certainly did, convinced that unconditional love and commitment could overcome anything.

But now that I'm becoming more self aware it seems to me that we all have conditions or core needs that we need and want to be met, even if we're unaware of them.

Love, secure attachment, fidelity, safety and mutual respect are some of them

These are fundamental to our happiness and health and if they are not being met than we are not loving ourselves, which is unhealthy

For me there there is a gulf between choosing to love someone - and it is a choice - despite their flaws, which requires acceptance, empathy and a respect for their right to be themselves and make their own choices and unconditional love, which implies loving someone even when it's apparent that they cannot or will not meet the needs that are conditional to our own health and happiness.

I would qualify this by making a distinction between romantic love and the love a parent feels for a child or a child for a parent.

I think this is very different type of love and not we need from a romantic relationship, though it's interesting that many of us struggle to recover from our relationships because our unhealthy romantic attachments feel like these primary relationships

Reforming

"Unconditional" is completely impossible for a human being to achieve.

The closest you can come is a mother to a child, in a healthy relationship.

Unconditional usually ends up meaning "boundary-less" which is self destructive.

Folks with personality disorders (AS / NARC / BPD, etc) latch onto someone with no boundaries like a flea on a dog.

They cannot survive unless they are sucking the life out of a host.

I love my kids; I would give them my last breath / defend them to the death... .but... .if they were to become addicts, into illegal activities, satan worshipers ? I would 'love them' at the core, and I would do everything in my power to help them; but I would enforce strict boundary lines, that not even they, my own flesh and blood, could cross.

There really is no such thing as unconditional love, here on earth.

I'm in the middle of a rescue right now that may well put me in danger. Some guy in my apartment threw all his girlfriends belongings into the stairs and she appears to be sporting a split lip. I brought her in and gave her a drink and a hug and she's now gone to get a friend to help her carry her belongings wherever she's going next.

Although I know better than to do any more than this act, while she was in the corridor sobbing with the BF chucking her belongings out my legs were like jelly, I felt like a child again listening to my father raging at my mother and her sobbing. And also reminded of myself and exs crazy rows. I stood there frozen for about a minute before I opened the door. The thought that this was none of my biz was large in my mind but how can you listen to a woman crying like that in pain and not try and help? It's a rescue, it may still backfire as she hasn't come back for her stuff and the BF is not a small bloke. Here's hope it turns out ok. In this case, was rescuing right, I may have opened the door to a whole host of problems! Good job I am moving apartments in a couple of weeks.

This was certainly the case with me.


I think it is incredibly difficult for parents whose children are struggling with drug addictions and mental health issues. You may always love them but as you rightly say you still need to have healthy boundaries to protect yourself and help them become responsible for themselves.


Trog I'm not surprised that you were triggered  . It sounds like you were in a hell of a spot, but you did the decent thing.

You're obviously self aware enough to avoid the pitfalls.

Not rescuing doesn't mean that you cannot reach out to help someone in need. It does mean recognising our own limitations and not forgetting to look after ourself as well

Reforming

I think we often treat rescue as though it's binary. We think it's either: rescue or not rescue. But I'm finding that there is a way to do the right thing without putting myself in the middle of the crisis. For example, in your case, calling the police instead of bringing her into your apartment and hugging her. My rescue instinct rarely considers that maybe there is someone better for the job (including the person in distress). And when I do involve someone better trained, I always feel like they're going to mess it up. I'm getting back at it, but it still feels awkward to not insert myself into the middle of someone's problem.

The thing I find so hard is to acknowledge that sometimes people need to experience the consequences to the fullest extent before they will make a positive change and take care of themselves. I was like this too. My ex was abusive, and I kept going back. It had to get bad enough for me to leave. No one could've rescued me -- if they tried to, I didn't notice. And the truth is that I needed it to get bad, not better, for there to be real change.

YES ^^^^

The only thing that confuses me is that I haven't rescued in any other r/s but this one.  There was something about her that brought out my protector/rescuer out full throttle.

This seems a common thought process for man of us... ."I am the strong, stable partner that you need. I will love you enough to heal your past hurts and make you whole."

That though ^ kept me in the r/s for far too long.

Yes, yes and yes. What a great thread.

I was just sitting here thinking about boundaries... .and about how much time I spent trying to make my ex happy when it became clear that she was becoming unhappy in our r/s. She wasn't unhappy in the beginning, of course... .she LOVED me and NEEDED me and I could do no wrong. But then that ship started sinking... .

Anything I could think of I tried.  I was sure that if I could just find the right thing to do or find the right thing she needed I could make everything right with our world again.

But I just realized that this is EXACTLY how I spent my childhood - trying to manage my often angry, sometimes raging, sometimes just-on-the -border-of-being-physically-abusive mother. My little self tried to find the right thing to do or find the right thing she needed so I could make everything right with my world again... .

So did my protector/rescuer come out as our r/s developed?  Yes... .but it's not so simple - my exBPDgf is a waif and is not at all a rager like my mother.  But even so, other triggers caused FOO issues to come into play.

I wish I could find this great quote I once found on the site. It was about family systems theory, how dysfunctional families do not have boundaries. Kids in these families don't even know what boundaries are. We get stretched so far into the dysfunction, it warps how we interact in intimate relationships. Even with values we can identify as our own (compassion, caring, commitment), we struggle because the boundaries are not clear.


There is a workshop here on the difference between supporting someone and enabling.


Maybe the distinction between supporting and enabling is important. The instinct to support someone can be healthy, it's when we cross the line from support to enable. We become the post that others hang their troubles on. We initially intended it to be a way to express love and support, but then next thing we know, the person carrying around a thousand tons of woe has just set it on top of our shoulders, and skipped off to generate more woe, only to bring that back too.

Is it simply about boundaries then? I have values, I have the instinct to support. But I didn't understand healthy boundaries. So maybe the instinct to rescue (support) is fine, it's the lack of boundaries that turns this into a problem?

Exactly what you say here, Survived:


I do think that I am prone to associate my self worth with helping others. If I didn't help others, I wouldn't feel like me.    I'm curious if there is something worth healing there. Why heal something that seems inherently good? Or inherently part of who I am? The only time I think otherwise is when I recognize that people have to experience pain in order to grow. Who am I to deny them that? I'm trying to learn how to be a good coach, and pause when I feel tempted to fix something by doing it myself.

Reading your post I'd say that both parts are true:

This sounds like something for you to heal.


You are worthy, whether you are helping somebody else or not.

This next sounds like something that is who you are. 'Tho if you healed the part above, it might change... .or not. Time will tell.

Is it something to heal, though? Maybe it's just being human.

I'm starting to think it's more about the latter. Meaning, we have to weigh all the time, in all of our interactions, whether we have the resources to help someone else. I feel good when I take care of myself. Sometimes I help other people, and that feels good too.

I don't know. I look around at the relationships in my life. How I spend my time. There is room for improvement, but a lot of it feels healthy. It reminds me of something a friend of mine said. She's a professor in the school of social work, and she said sometimes you just have to like who you are, even when you aren't perfect.

Maybe what I'm learning from this thread is that rescuing is a combination of support and enabling. The urge or instinct to rescue is not pathological, it's when you have no breaks that it becomes a problem. Before, I was a combination of rescue + low self esteem + no boundaries. When it's rescue + self worth + good boundaries, maybe the urge to support is ok. It just needs to be double checked for quality assurance  :) after a lifetime of doing it the way that didn't work.

It seems to be about boundaries... .helping, supporting, rescuing but knowing when it''s time to bow out... .before it moves into co-dependence or something unhealthy.  Being self aware and not forgetting to take care of ourselves.

Here is the area for healing I saw:

If you can only value yourself when you are helping others, I would conclude that you do not believe that you, yourself, are worthy of love and value.

If you have self-worth that isn't tied to helping others, as well as valuing that supportive side of yourself... .then I'm finding/making a problem where there is none. That is indeed one aspect of being a good human  :)

Hey reforming, 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and I certainly agree.   

In my own search for healing, one of the most difficult is understanding love and commitment.  What I found and working hard to better understand is love itself.   Have you ever explored the Greek philosophies on love? Very interesting.   They had very unique views that love is not, as our culture accepts so simplistically, a catch all word for everything.  To the Greeks there were very unique types of love and almost all of them can be healthy or unhealthy taken to the extreme. 

One of the things I struggled with in my r/s was unconditional love but it was not the only thing.   What I am learning is unconditional love is only part of a healthy relationship.  The other foundational parts include a healthy self-love to begin with, trust and boundaries.   

I would add only this…I still love my BPD unconditionally.  Inside of her is a gravely wounded child who never asked for her disorder in life, and I would wish this pain and suffering for no one.  I still believe in unconditional love, and without boundaries and trust…I will do so from a very good and safe distance away.   

There is another aspect in my situation that is relevant and it ironically crosses into a different kind of love.  My exBPD and I have a D13 who will either learn to love and accept her BPD mother unconditionally – or hate her.   I hope my D13 finds forgiveness, kindness, love and compassion and learns – unconditional love – along with very healthy boundaries.   

Survived       

Someone commented about the Greek definitions of love.  There are five, in most schools of thought:

Mania - obsessive love, desire to own/have.  Like how you'd love to have that big steak, or whatever.

Eros - intimate love, sexual passion, appreciation for the beauty within another person.  the emotional surge in a new relationship.  very volatile and forever changing.

Philos - brotherly love, a bond between two people over time, based on similarities.  Friendships. 

Storge - motherly love, parental love, between a dependent and caregiver.

Agape - the perfect love, loving just because, with no dependance on circumstances.   Some call this charity, or good will... .doing for the sake of another person's good... .this does NOT include, 'at your own expense'. 

Love has to be in you, to be given to another person.  If your love bucket is empty, you can't give love to another.  My grandbaby told me that when she was six years old.  :)  When I asked her where she learned that, she said, from my heart... .kids so are amazing.

This is why I don't like the term 'unconditional love'... .if you are giving, and being hurt by it, then the love inside of you wont last long, and in the end, you help no one.  Perfect love isn't unconditional, it's agape.

People can love other people in any of the five ways to love... .not all of them are healthy, obviously.  And a relationship can go through stages of the different types of love, but without having that consistent, steady agape love as the backbone of the r/s, there will be many struggles and pains... .sort of like our BPD r/s's.

Just thought the info may add food for thought.

 ,

Crumbsy

I don't only value myself when I'm helping others, but it does make me feel better. I'm ok with that distinction -- maybe it means something but I'm also willing to let that just be a quirk. I will admit that it's easier for me to socialize if I have something to do in social situations. If I'm teaching or giving a talk or doing charitable work, it's easier. But I'm also ok just being in the milieu not really doing anything specific. I'm starting a mindfulness-based stress reduction class this week, something I've wanted to do for years. Just thinking about the class has made me much more aware of the being/doing thing, where I start to fuss around and do things instead of just being still and quiet. 

You made me realize that there is an important distinction here. One is being aware of rescue tendencies while in a BPD relationship, or curbing/healing those tendencies in other intimate relationships. The other is being aware of how we find our worth, and what that means in terms of how we are in the world.

Hi Survived and Crumbling

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I have read a fair bit of classical literature and I agree that the ancient Greek conception of love being multifaceted is an interesting one.

The Greek understanding of religion, multiple gods who were physically present and intervened, sometimes capriciously, in their day to day lives is very different from ours.

They saw romantic love as an electric force, a kind of madness with a frightening power that could make you helpless or ill. A glance from Aphrodite or Eros could strike you like a bolt of lightening

I think for most of us in the west, our conception of love is hugely influenced by Christianity. Turning the other cheek, the crucifixion and martyrdom all espouse the ideas renunciation and self sacrifice.

These ideas aren't unique to christianity. The golden rule is much older and other religions, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism espouse similar altruistic ideals.

But the defining moment of christianity, the crucifixion, celebrates the ideal of personal sacrifice for the greater good and it's shaped our culture and literature for hundreds of years. Even if you aren't religious it's difficult not to be influenced by this message

I am still uncertain about the existence of unconditional love, but I recognise that we all love differently and that you can still love someone even when you recognise that being with them is destructive.

I feel that there are definitely different types of love, but I think they are healthier when there is foundation of mutual respect, kindness and honesty.

I know how difficult it is stop loving someone. I still care deeply about my ex and I probably always will. She is part of my memories, my life experience and my identity. If I excised this I would lose something precious and I would no longer be me

I do recognise that I cannot be with her and give myself the love that I need. I found detaching very hard and I was able to make a clean break. I can't imagine how difficult it must be when you have children.

Survived thanks again for sharing and I hope that your daughter can learn to love her mother and herself as well.

Livednlearned thanks for sharing your thoughts as well

I think reaching out to help others can be a great thing.

It helps us to connect and bond with the people around us, and reminds us that were are not alone. Giving to others is a good thing as long as we don't lose sight of our needs and give with unhealthy motives and expectations.

Giving because we want to control others and make them love us back is not healthy

Thanks for posting everyone. It's a really worthwhile thread

Reforming

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