Title: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 01:15:20 PM I have been posting about what's been going on during my 2 week trip away from home. To catch you up, see:
Post 1: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270478.0;all Post 2: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270620.0 Yesterday, I did take Vortex's advice about H having been reasonably upset and I apologized for not checking in and said I promised I'd do it in the future. That I understood the importance and I didn't mean to make him so upset. It took HOURS for him to accept my apology. It was extremely triggering to be in a circular argument where I wasn't even fighting with him, just trying to get him to listen to the words coming out of my mouth. At one point he called me a psychopath while we were on the phone, because I was crying from being so stressed out about going in circles and feeling trapped and like he was punishing me. I hung up and texted him and told him name calling is not ok and I won't speak to him if he's going to violate my boundaries. It took another hour of texting for him to believe my apology. Luckily then it was his bed time with the time difference. Today I woke up to an average text message. I responded in an equal tone hoping today would be less stressful. From there things went downhill. He said he was still really upset and feeling like he wasn't respected in this relationship and he'd been feeling like that for a long time. I validated that I understood he was still upset and that I know I've been struggling with anger, causing him to feel disrespected. I assured him that I had improved my anger management already and I was still working to handle that to avoid making him feel less than in any way. Good right? Then he demanded to know exactly what I said to my cousin (who I'm staying with) about our disagreement yesterday. I told him I didn't say anything nasty about him and he had nothing to worry about. He got upset and said I should want to tell him because I put him through so much yesterday. That we should tell each other everything. H has been extremely clear that he values his own privacy, particularly in friendships. It was an issue in the past. I have some own insecurity issues and that was hard for me then but over time I realized that it's much healthier to have separate relationships and not have to report back to someone just bc they're insecure. I stated that this was a boundary for me, that I felt it was too controlling and unhealthy and I wasn't going to tell him the exact conversation, just as he wouldn't tell me any exact conversations. Things continued to explode. He continued to tell me I broke his trust and I should want to tell him about my conversation. That he thought I'd do anything to repair it. I told him I understood being upset still but asking me to do anything other than apologize and work on not repeating the mistake seemed like punishment, like abusive behavior. He asked if I even wanted to be married to him any more. I told him I did. I also don't want to lose respect for myself and that's a big mistake I made in the past by not setting boundaries and then feeling resentful. That just as he had told me that he has apologized for his past behavior and is working on it and has told me I can't expect anything extra that the same applies to me. I told him it was his work to forgive me, that I couldn't do anything to make that happen. He told me I wasn't being empathetic and I should want to make him feel better about everything. I told him I can relate to being very hurt and it sounds awful. I am clear on the importance of checking in and I want to avoid making him worry like that in the future. I want him to feel better and I know it won't happen again. Then he tells me he's been extremely sick while I've been away. He had to get expensive medication. That when he told me that our dog was bit on his paw by a small dog and it was barely noticeable earlier this week, he lied. He's been cleaning and bandaging it and he didn't tell me any of this so I wouldn't worry. I told him to please take the dog to the vet or if not I will take him when I get home Saturday. I told him it wasn't nice to make me upset because I'm trying to keep boundaries. I said I was trying not to hurt him and I understood he was still upset but that I shouldn't have to be punished. I said I thought being sick and stressed were putting him in a downward spiral. I can't compromise the work I've done to try and respect myself more because he asks me to when he's upset. I also asked what he was sick with. He said I was making it all about me again and he kept it so I wouldn't worry. Then I broke his trust and now I won't make him feel better. That he's never going to tell me what was wrong with him. I told him again that I didn't bash him to my cousin and that's all he needs to know and that he's being abusive. Then he said I was being abusive (of course). I then told him I was going to take some space that this was too much stress. That I was trying to be nice and understood he felt hurt but I just can't handle the stress right now. He said I haven't tried to make it right that I just apologized and backed off. "I hope I ___ing die. And you should stay the ___ out there. Don't contact me again." My last message that I sent before I read his was that I tried discussing this in a healthy way and I'm sorry he's sick. I wish he would have told me so I could have supported him. I love you and I hope you feel better. He told me "You don't know how to be supportive. You're broken. Your parents abandoned you to that psycho and you're broken. Don't ___ing text me again." At this point I texted my sister and asked if she could get me at the airport. There's absolutely NO way I'm getting into a car with him after this. No thank you. He just texted me and asked what time I'm getting in on Saturday so he can make his appointment with his therapist. I don't know if I should respond or not. Everything feels like a trap. I am terrified of going home. I think I should stick to taking space until that time bc I can't handle this and I only have so little time left with my cousin and I'm not going to be a headcase over him. I don't know what to do. I don't know if I can do this all over again. Being made to feel less than or like I need to pay penance to someone every time I make a mistake. He had been a lot better about dysregulating but this is #2 for January for the all out off the rails. That's not including the smaller ones, like not understanding why I won't be a messenger to my cousin. Am I done? Is this worth it? Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 29, 2015, 03:12:46 PM Take some time and reread the lessons. There is one on one of the forums called "Stop the Bleeding". It should give you some ideas on how to stop the circular arguments.
Also, don't JADE! When you JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) it is likely that you are feeding the "beast". It is better for them to be upset because you stepped away from the discussion than it is to give them more stuff to chew up and turn around. Validate him to the best of your ability and move on as best you can. None of this is easy. The first step is to get off the roller coaster. That is where the lessons really, really help. I am going to throw something out there for you to think about. Did your husband go out with anyone or do anything with anybody while you were gone? If you got to go on a date and do fun stuff while he was at home "sick", is there a possibility that he is jealous. Don't bring that up with him. Think about it for yourself. I know that when I was seeing/talking to other people my husband was very much like what you are describing your husband. He never said it but he was jealous. I could tell by his actions. If he had people to see or talk to, he was fine with me seeing/talking to other people. If he didn't have anything, he would pick fights and the circular crap never stopped. Think about that and really think about whether or not you really want to step into that hornets nest while your husband is dysregulated. Here is a hug. This is some rough stuff! Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 03:18:45 PM I'm just not sure I want to have to learn how to do all these special things to manage his illness any more. It doesn't matter what I do. He wanted me to be excited about being open, so I suggested this trial run. I think he probably is jealous and despite the fact that he said he had "no problems" with the idea of me with someone else, I think that's untrue. Whether he'd ever admit that or not is in the air. Thanks for your support.
I still haven't responded to his message about what time my flight is. I don't know if that's the best course or not but the thought of opening the door is too much and he'll likely be upset that I made other plans when he flipped out.So, I'd rather just not deal with it at all. Not sure what's going to happen when I get home. I know it will be even harder to check my own emotions and may end up having to leave my own house as soon as I return to it. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 03:34:30 PM He sent another text asking what time my flight was so he could schedule his therapy so I told him not to worry about it that I had a ride. He asked if I could please stop hurting him. I told him that he said not to contact him so I found another ride and asked him to leave my key in the mailbox (I realized that like an IDIOT I didn't bring my house key bc I planned on H picking me up). He called me a cruel person. Now I don't even know if I'll be able to get into my own house... .it just keeps getting better.
Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 29, 2015, 03:35:10 PM I'm just not sure I want to have to learn how to do all these special things to manage his illness any more. It doesn't matter what I do. He wanted me to be excited about being open, so I suggested this trial run. I think he probably is jealous and despite the fact that he said he had "no problems" with the idea of me with someone else, I think that's untrue. Whether he'd ever admit that or not is in the air. Thanks for your support. My husband didn't have a problem with me being with somebody else. That part excited him. The problem is that he likes to mirror me. If I do something, he wants to do it to. If I "achieve" something before him, he gets goofy about it. Perhaps you can look at other areas and see if this is really about the open stuff or if it is about something else. Have his abandonment fears been triggered? Whether or not he admits to anything is irrelevant. It gives you a place to work from so you aren't quite as lost. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 03:44:18 PM I would imagine his abandonment fears are triggered because he said "I'd break if anything ever happened to you" yesterday. So I think the thought of me leaving (even in a tragic way) is in his mind. And that's fine. I'm just tired of him exploding all over my life. Especially when I'm trying to do things for myself to get out of a bad depression and have my own therapy twice a week. I just don't know if there will ever be enough space in this relationship for two people or if I have the patience to get to that point if it does even exist. He's trying to bait me now by telling my I'm determined to exclude him from every aspect of my life and why don't I just leave bc I'm torturing him... .I'm not responding to this. He's going to have to figure out how to calm himself down.
Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Notwendy on January 29, 2015, 03:58:21 PM Bloomer, I think this could be about what I posted - that you don't know what you feel until it happens. Your H may have agreed to your open marriage in theory, but when something happened, he experienced strong feelings.
Remember, feelings to them are the same as if the experience is real. My H reacted as if I was cheating when he saw a picture of an old crush in a school yearbook. It was years before I met my H, but it was as if I had seen the person today because that's how he felt at the moment, and he was raging. Whatever your H feels now, he is certain you did it to him, and that whoever causes him this kind of pain must be a terrible person because he is hurting. He is projecting all his hurt outside himself to get rid of those bad feelings. As I said before, I don't think that people with PD's can handle emotionally charged situations, especially those that trigger insecurities and abandonment. That doesn't mean you don't have choices. One can choose to have an open marriage, but if you make that choice, there could be consequences to deal with too. I know that if anything could throw my H over the edge- this would be it. That isn't why I don't do it. I don't really want to. However, if I did, I think what I would face when I got home would be really awful. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 04:12:40 PM H is the one who became persistent in his identifying as poly. For a while I struggled and eventually decided to give it a try as I'm not opposed to it and see a lot of the benefits of poly/open relationships. They can be difficult, sure. Emotions come up and you have to work through them if you want to stay open. However, it should not be a "consequence". Having an open relationship does not warrant being punished. I'm not doing anything wrong. I understand feelings that come up for people and I'm always willing to talk about those in an understanding way. But if someone is not emotionally aware enough to bring them up calmly without flipping out, I can't do anything about that or make assumptions as to what might change their behavior.
Update: H called and I let it go to voice mail. He apologized for the things he said to me today. He's feeling very hurt and having a difficult time with what happened. He knows there's nothing more I can do about it. He doesn't want to be "excluded" from anything else in my life, especially not deliberately bc it's hard enough when I do it accidentally and wants to pick me up from the airport. I don't know what to do. I honestly do not want to talk to him right now. I don't really feel comfortable being stuck in a car for 30 minutes with him after not speaking to him either. Any suggestions on the healthiest course of action are appreciated. I want to keep my boundaries and also do what I need to do for me. I would like to do it in the least hurtful way to him possible but I understand he'll probably be hurt no matter what. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 29, 2015, 05:26:41 PM How much time do you have between now and when you need to be picked up at the airport? I ask because it might be a good idea to give yourself some time to think and process things. Based on what you have posted, it seems that things are changing by the minute. You don't know what is going to happen next. Can you sit on this for a bit before coming to any kind of decision about him picking you up?
You are right. If two people agree to something, then both people should be able to do it and work through whatever comes up. I know exactly how you feel. When we were in the midst of things being open on both sides, there were times when it felt like I was being punished because I had something and he didn't. One day he would tell me that things were open and the next day he told me that they were closed. It was crazy. I had ONE lover through the whole thing. Luckily, he has been great at giving me whatever space I have needed. It is tough to try to juggle two relationships no matter how good things are between you and a spouse. When you throw BPD into the mix, it makes for a really wild ride! You can't control whether or not he flips out. What you can do is control your reaction to it! That is way easier said than done. My husband and I had some really nasty fights when we were trying to figure out the open stuff. It wasn't until I found this site and figured out how to keep myself in check better than I made any progress. I have had periods where I didn't answer the phone or texts. I had periods where I had to set boundaries because he was trying to be in, what felt like, constant contact. I would be knee deep in kid stuff and he would be calling me over and over and over again until he got me. If he saw me on FB, he would message me. I felt like I was being swallowed. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 05:37:31 PM I won't be arriving until Saturday so I have some time but I know he's going to focus on me not telling him to pick me up or not and that will make it hard and maybe push me to not agree to him picking me up.
In the mean time, I'm not sure about contact. He called me 4 times and I didn't answer. I texted and told him I was with my cousin in the car (white lie). He said what does it matter, she knows what's going on. And I just didn't respond. He is likely at his normal Thursday activity now so I should have some more time to even figure out how to respond to his apology, which clearly came from me calling him on his "don't contact me again" BS. Just not sure what to respond to at this point bc I'm terrified of reinforcing negative behaviors. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 29, 2015, 05:43:33 PM Do a quick review of the lessons before deciding on anything!
The hard part is to NOT let them push you. Make up your mind what you want and then stick with it. If you don't want him to pick you up, then tell him that your sister will be picking you up at the airport and will then bring you home around such and such time. Give him a detail of what you plan to do. If he tries to argue with it, stick to your plan. Repeat it once, maybe twice and then excuse yourself from the call or don't respond to the text. It takes some super strength to not get sucked down the rabbit hole of reacting to their BS. But, it is worth it. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on January 29, 2015, 06:32:02 PM You sound very at risk of getting wrapped up in his feelings and his insecurities and his concerns.
They matter... .but they aren't yours, and it is really easy to get lost in them. Stay focused on how you feel. You have said several times that you don't feel safe (emotionally) being in the car on the ride home from the airport with him. You already made arrangements for another ride home. It is a 30 minute ride. he will see you only 30 minutes later than he would have. You don't have to explain it to him or give him reasons. (It would be JADEing anyhow!) Tell him that you have a ride and when you expect to be home (blizzards permitting!), and that you aren't changing your mind on this one. Besides... .the more he has to make a big deal about it, the less you want to be stuck in a car with him! Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 06:42:54 PM I think you're very right. I always want to make him happy and ease his pain, which usually involves getting wrapped up and lost.
Any thoughts on addressing taking space (in a loving way until I get home)? Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on January 29, 2015, 06:52:27 PM Take space in a firm way, instead of a loving way. I think that is the most loving thing to do!
One of the things that my wife used to do to me that I absolutely hated was try to 'gently' maneuver me into doing something without her... .and finally snap at me for not giving her space when I didn't take the 'hint'. Instead of one direct rejection... .which might even not be about me, I got a series of half a dozen successive rejections, mixed up with confusion and fretting about what she really wanted! Pretending that you can prevent that pain through some other action only makes it worse. I tend to value truth over kindness when they come in conflict. Avoiding telling him you want space (but backing away anyhow!) is close enough to deceptive to feel yucky to me. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 07:05:11 PM You are the Jedi master. Seriously, I feel so much less like my head is going to explode after working this out with everyone here.
I see what you mean. How about something like: "I need some space right now. My sister is giving me a ride home from the airport. I'll let you know if I have any unexpected flight delays." Should I give him my flight details if he doesn't have them? Should I mention his apologetic voice mail for any reason? Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on January 29, 2015, 07:27:24 PM I don't see any reason to give him your flight details; he isn't picking you up.
I don't see any reason to withhold your flight details. ... .unless you are afraid he would show up and try to make some sort of ugly scene in the arrival lane confronting you and your sister. If he asks nicely for the info, give it to him. It sounds like the voicemail was a mix of a bunch of stuff, some of it messy. First pass: If it isn't a question, don't answer it lol I'd suggest that you work stuff out with your H after you get back and take time off now as much as you can. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 07:33:34 PM I don't think he'd make an ugly scene but since he's been so out of control the past two weeks, I'll just leave it. The other thing I keep forgetting is that I didn't bring my house key and I need him to leave it in the mailbox for me in case he's out when I arrive.
I like all of your other suggestions. I think I knew everything in my gut but I can't get past the guilt :-\ Thank you. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 29, 2015, 07:42:45 PM I think I knew everything in my gut but I can't get past the guilt :-\ The guilt is horrible. Sit with it and try to let it go instead of acting on it. When I started ignoring some of my husband's texts and calls, I was soo scared. I felt like I had to respond or the world would end. I am only exaggerating a little bit. The night that I was at work and didn't respond to his emails I came home to "Is there a reason you didn't respond?" He was snotty as heck too. I told him that I was at work. It took a while to get him used to the new ways of communicating where I didn't let him be a jerk to me. If he didn't have something important to talk about, I wouldn't respond. It was rough and I felt very, very guilty. You can do this! Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 08:13:50 PM Ok, I sent him my "space" text message. Of course he responded with "please don't do this, I'm not some psycho, I'm your husband. And then you would be so upset if I did this. Don't push me away like this". So I'm sitting on the couch with my new best friend Guilt. We're doing ok. My head hasn't exploded (yet). I know I need to be firm in taking the space I told him I was taking or else I'm just making this worse.
Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 29, 2015, 08:19:12 PM Don't take the bait!
Can you send him a validating message? ONE message that validates him and reassures him but does NOT go down the rabbit hole. Something along the lines of: "I know you are not a psycho. You are my husband and I love you. I want to talk about this stuff with you when I get home. Now isn't the time." Maybe GK will chime in and correct me if this is too much. Don't take the bait! Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 29, 2015, 08:36:33 PM The other times I tried to be gentle he just latches on and it makes me much more susceptible to getting roped in. I didn't freak out on him AT ALL today. So, even though I didn't get extra lovey, I also didn't say anything nasty. No name calling, no phone conversation, nothing just mean. I feel like maybe that's enough? I told him earlier when I said I was taking space that I loved him and hoped he feels better. At home it's much harder to enforce the space boundary so this is my only chance before he's in front of me and I probably need to experience the space so I can remember what it's like to have it, so I'm more inclined to take it as needed. Does that make sense? And anyone can bring up any flaws in my logic here.
Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 29, 2015, 08:40:51 PM The other times I tried to be gentle he just latches on and it makes me much more susceptible to getting roped in. I didn't freak out on him AT ALL today. So, even though I didn't get extra lovey, I also didn't say anything nasty. No name calling, no phone conversation, nothing just mean. I feel like maybe that's enough? I told him earlier when I said I was taking space that I loved him and hoped he feels better. At home it's much harder to enforce the space boundary so this is my only chance before he's in front of me and I probably need to experience the space so I can remember what it's like to have it, so I'm more inclined to take it as needed. Does that make sense? And anyone can bring up any flaws in my logic here. I don't see any flaws in your logic. I ran away for a week about a year and half ago. I wouldn't answer my phone. Didn't answer texts and just focused on being me and enjoying my time away without having to worry about my husband. I wouldn't engage him at all. It was great. I had a bunch of BS to deal with when I got home but that time without him invading my thoughts and my space was very helpful for me as it gave me time to think and rebuild the strength that I needed to face stuff when I got home. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on January 29, 2015, 08:56:08 PM So I'm sitting on the couch with my new best friend Guilt. We're doing ok. My head hasn't exploded (yet). Perhaps you can offer your guilt a cup of tea while you are at it? It works for some people with shame. (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240838.0;all) OK... .sanity check time here. Your husband is falling apart and pleading with you over the idea that you will see him ~30 minutes later than you would have otherwise? When this is at the end of a two-week trip? That's nuts. And it probably isn't the real reason either, not that he knows the real reason. When it comes to dealing with him, I can see two skillful paths: 1. Enforce your boundary. [crickets] Nothing left to do... .you already arranged for your sister to pick you up. 2. Validate his feelings. "You sound like you feel hurt and rejected." You will want to do the latter sooner or later, but you don't need to do it now. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 30, 2015, 02:10:06 AM I feel like a right arsehole because NotWendy and VoC have been hinting at some behaviors their H's exhibit this whole time and I've been saying "he doesn't do that". Well, ladies and gentlement, apparently they are THAT predictable because after enforcing my boundary (we had a lovely cup o' tea GK), I got several messages summarizing the following:
"I don't want to be poly. I can't stop crying. I just want you. All this is bc I'm heartbroken that I let you go. I lost you for a night. I'm not angry. You didn't do anything wrong. I'm angry with myself for being such a fool. I understand completely now how you felt about me and (our other primary female partner in the past). I'm so sorry." Eventually he texted me in the middle of the night (his time zone) saying how much he and the dog missed me and wanted a text from his wife. I stayed strong. I'm very proud of holding the fort. I can't believe this, and yet I can! Do you know how MANY arguments have been around him identifying as POLY and me needing more time, etc. And I finally say, alright let's try this out for a short-term lease and he wigs out... .I still don't know if it's bc I was away and he didn't have anyone; if he finally experienced what I felt when we had a third partner who was female (and I had a hard time getting out of comparison mode); or was it that I was independent enough to take a 2 week trip on my own and not need constant communication to survive? In any scenario, my head nearly went through the roof when I read the first couple of messages. Are you kidding me? Do you know how many times I've asked him if he felt ok, or had any reservations, or felt jealous about me being with another guy (as opposed to a woman)? I'm going to keep my boundary (he mentioned again that he hopes he can pick me up at the airport) and remain NC and have my sister pick me up. At this point, I don't know what's going to happen. I feel FULL of resentment bc the amount of discord poly and me being uncomfortable with our third partner (over a year ago) caused is prolific. I feel so naive for thinking he was aware enough to not feel slighted by this. I knew it played a factor but he is stating it is the ONLY factor right now... ./end rant. Thank you all for helping me through this and keeping me strong in my boundary. And I'm sorry for being resistant to the idea of him being textbook BPD. You just want to believe they're as good as they're trying to be and I have been disillusioned. I honestly feel like I've been punched in the stomach on this one. Bloomer Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 30, 2015, 02:22:15 AM I feel so naive for thinking he was aware enough to not feel slighted by this. I knew it played a factor but he is stating it is the ONLY factor right now... ./end rant. Thank you all for helping me through this and keeping me strong in my boundary. And I'm sorry for being resistant to the idea of him being textbook BPD. You just want to believe they're as good as they're trying to be and I have been disillusioned. I honestly feel like I've been punched in the stomach on this one. Don't apologize! I know I have been resistant to seeing my husband for who he is and what he is. I have spent so many years trying to see and think the best. I have gotten sucked into his BS for years. Things are going pretty between us right now but I am only cautiously optimistic. I know that he will do well long enough for me to let my guard down and then BAM! I am hoping that I can use the tools here and not get sucked in again. That punched in the gut feeling sucks! Hang in there. You will get through this. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 30, 2015, 08:27:42 AM Thanks Vortex. There's a certain comfort in knowing I'm not the only one being hoodwinked.
I've received 16 text messages since setting my boundary and 1 email. He did not sleep apparently based on the time stamps. The most recent texts said that the silence is scary and he wants to know if I'm leaving him so he doesn't make a fool of himself by cleaning the house and going grocery shopping before I get back. This one was tempting to respond to but I know that would be a major mistake because then I'd be saying, "If you invade my boundary enough, I'll totally just give up on it." So, I'm not going to do that. If he doesn't clean the house or do grocery shopping, that's really the least of my concerns right now. And I DEFINITELY don't want to be in a car with him right now. I'm quite sure we'd crash. The very last message says he's seeing his therapist on his lunch break. So, at least he's doing something to try to cope with what is the first time I've ever held the no contact boundary. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on January 30, 2015, 08:44:25 AM Strap in and hold tight! Your husband is going for a RIDE through all his emtions, and he's gonna try to take you with him on it!
FYI, when my wife and I started our respective poly r/s... .we started out by agreeing (respectively) that it was OK by her for me to have sex with this other woman and OK by me for her to have sex with this other guy. She sounded not concerned at all; I spent a lot of time really thinking about it. Soon into it she dysregulated ALL OVER THE PLACE when I actually was having sex with anther woman, and apparently enjoying it. (Much later she admitted that she was imagining/assuming that I would say something like "It wasn't too awful, but it is soo much better with you!", and I didn't live up to that unstated expectation!) ... .probably the worst rages and silent treatment I experienced in my life. Anyhow... .back to you and your marriage... . Being up all night texting/emailing you shows he's clearly very very very upset. Do you have it in yourself to validate some of his fears about you leaving him? "I would never leave you" is not the same as validating his fear that you will leave. You probably should do both when you are feeling some compassion for him. It might be easier to compose that in a text message than talking to him right now. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 30, 2015, 08:56:42 AM I feel compassion and I also feel very afraid that anything I do will be seen as weakness and then he'll pounce.
I also don't really know what's going to happen when I get home. I, too, spent a LOT of time thinking about poly and being open. I pushed myself into a full-on poly rs at one point bc it seemed like the path of least resistance. Obviously that speaks so highly of my ability to set healthy boundaries but I mean this is a subject that even recently I had to apologize for how my insecurities came up during our previous experiences. And I was THERE when he was with another woman not states away. So, I am open to the idea of sending something but I have a lot of concerns about what will happen when I do that... . Were you thinking along the lines of: "I understand that you're afraid and I love you"? Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on January 30, 2015, 09:11:13 AM More like "You sound absolutely terrified that I will leave you. I will be home around xx:yy Saturday and want to see you when I return. I love you."
So, I am open to the idea of sending something but I have a lot of concerns about what will happen when I do that... . What are you afraid of? What can he do besides burn up your phone with another 15 text messages? You made it through that, and even got a nice conversation with your guilt while you were at it! Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 30, 2015, 09:22:55 AM I feel compassion and I also feel very afraid that anything I do will be seen as weakness and then he'll pounce. Stand firm. If he sees you being weak, he WILL pounce. One little crack and he is going to run through. You can do this. It is difficult to figure out how to be compassionate without opening yourself up to the crazy. Excerpt I also don't really know what's going to happen when I get home. Don't think about that right now. There is a good chance that whatever you come up with in your head will be completely inaccurate. I have spent so many times creating and slaying monsters in my head. It isn't helpful and distracts you from doing the hard work of relaxing and enjoying your time away. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 30, 2015, 09:25:46 AM What are you afraid of? What can he do besides burn up your phone with another 15 text messages? You made it through that, and even got a nice conversation with your guilt while you were at it! I think I understand her fear. When I have been away or tried to ignore phone calls/texts, I had a knot in the pit of my stomach. I would argue with myself, "Is this few minutes/hours of peace worth the crap that I am going to have to deal with when I get home?" I could ignore a text or call all day long but I knew that I was eventually going to have to face him. And THAT is what I was most afraid of when I was trying to stop the calls and texts. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 30, 2015, 09:40:56 AM You're right, all he can do is send messages. So I sent him almost word for word what you suggested bc that's the best I can do right now. The only thing I changed is that I didn't say want to see you I said "will" see you.
He said "I am" (meaning terrified of me leaving) and then asked if he can speak to me for a few minutes. So I'm going to go back to NC. VoC, you're right. It's the fear of what will happen if I do this for myself, just like it is when I do anything that isn't catering to him or might not be what he would want or expect, etc. I don't know what's going to happen. I don't even know where my head is right now. I do know that not talking to him feels better than the entangled mess of Wednesday when I couldn't get out of circular arguments. Thanks everyone. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 30, 2015, 09:47:07 AM It is a floodgate... .
And he went for the jugular. "Am I picking you up? Don't you want to feel what it's like when you've been away for a while and (our dog) comes to the airport?" I do want to know what that feels like but I don't want to be in the car with you right now so I guess I'll have to settle for what it feels like when I walk in the door after 2 weeks, which is still really nice. Also, I think I've been very clear that he isn't picking me up. I said I'll be home at x time Saturday. Does anyone think I need to restate that I do not need a ride so he doesn't go to the airport? Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: vortex of confusion on January 30, 2015, 09:54:45 AM He is going to ask the same question over and over and over again until he gets the answer that he wants. My husband does that. I can give him the same answer and he persists because he knows that in the past I would cave.
Don't cave! If you don't want him to pick you up, then stick with it. Your options are: -Don't respond at all to this. -Respond with "Sister is picking me up at time. I am looking forward to seeing you and the dog at home." (Or something like that.) He is trying to bait you. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 30, 2015, 10:11:32 AM Of course there's a part of me that wants him to come with our dog and get me. Unfortunately, the reality and the fantasy of that desire are two different things. It's not going to be this sweet reunion after two weeks of being lovey and missing each other. I also think I need the time in the car to take some deep breaths after traveling all night.
I did text to make sure the plan was clear and hopefully show some more compassion. Even maybe more than I am feeling at this moment but probably an appropriate amount for the person I took vows with. I think the irony of this is that when we were apart (long distance) and he was dysregulating several times a day, I would get so worried when he threatened to break up with me or stopped talking to me and I would freak out. I know what it feels like and he didn't even do it with any kindness (like call me horrible names and then stop speaking to me). So at least I've been keeping my anger in check and handling it on my own. He did say he appreciates the message I sent. He still doesn't understand why I don't want him to pick me up and it would mean so much for him bc he never got to pick me up at the airport... .I feel like he had a chance to do it and now that's gone. And I'm not responding bc I can do this and it's ok for me to do things for ME and not for him. It's ok to be firm with him if it is done mindfully and for my well being. It's OK. The world hasn't exploded. It probably won't explode when my sister gets to the airport. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Notwendy on January 30, 2015, 11:27:37 AM There's no telling why about the airport thing. It's what they make it to be.
My H is usually busy with work. Once one of our kids was coming back from a trip. I offered to go the airport on my own and let my H have some free time. That turned into him accusing me of robbing him of time with his child, that child would tell me all about the trip and then when we got home, not tell him anything. (That's not true. Usually a child coming back from a trip is so tired, that they fall asleep in the car, and are happy to tell Dad about the trip, even if they already told me). Now, had I asked him to go to the airport- it would have been " Can't you see how busy I am? I have less free time than you. It isn't fair that I should go do that too". IMHO, it isn't about the airport but how they are feeling at the moment. In this case, no solution to the airport pick up is going to change that. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 30, 2015, 11:53:48 AM "IMHO, it isn't about the airport but how they are feeling at the moment. In this case, no solution to the airport pick up is going to change that." -NotWendy
Thanks, I think you hit the nail on the head. If I say yes, there might be another request that follows. It isn't going to fix the situation or likely make him feel that much better bc it's not like I'm going to be overjoyed in the car. I wouldn't even want to talk until we got home bc car discussions are almost always a very poor choice of location. Nothing like being in a moving vehicle on the highway during an argument to make you feel trapped! lol He asked me to go to therapy with him 2 hours after I'm supposed to get home Saturday. I will go because that seems like a safer place to talk about things than on our own. And his therapist is usually pretty good at helping us communicate when emotions take over. She's a dbt/BPD specialist. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on January 31, 2015, 06:09:58 AM Waiting for my last flight back to my home city. He sent me several messages yesterday, many trying to get me to change my mind, some trying to bait me into reaching out. Eventually they stopped. I'm feeling extremely nervous about going home still. I don't even know what to say. I don't necessarily feel angry, or at least it hasn't hit me yet. I think I've shut down a bit; it could be the lack of sleep.
My sister knows nothing about my marriage. My asking for a ride has set off her alarm system and I had to tell her a general reason when I asked, so I just said marriage stuff and that I'd tell her more. That I was fine things were just not good right now. I feel compelled to lie. I'm not sure if I tell her about BPD or if I just say we're going through "a rough patch" (one that lasts the entire span of the relationship). I'm still protecting him from my family after all the history there. I even asked my sister not to tell my parents she was getting me. Before I left, my dad asked me if everything was ok. I said yes and lied to him, too. My sister is a survivor of domestic violence. My parents helped get her out. This is an extremely raw subject in my family. If I ever told them before I was sure my marriage was over, they would not accept my H. He would feel betrayed. I'm still glad it's my sister coming but I can feel the stress in ever bone. I'll try to update everyone later this evening. Thanks again for all the support. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Notwendy on January 31, 2015, 07:12:36 AM I used to take what my H said to me as his truth when he was distressed, but now I realize that it is the "distress" talking, and he says what he thinks is logical to support the feeling. I was making myself crazy trying to fulfill his wishes, according to what he said, but it was a constantly changing statement.
Like my airport story- what he said was about his feelings, and no matter what I tried to do to accomodate his statement, the story would have fit his feelings regardless. This doesn't mean we can't validate them, but we can validate the feelings. My mistake was validating him by doing what he said, but since what he said isn't really what is going on, that doesn't validate him. The airport thing is about him feeling left out. He works a lot and feels left out. Some of this is his doing though, because even when he is home, he's not always "present" and his not speaking personally leaves him isolated. One thing he is jealous of is my relationship with the kids, but I never excluded him. The door is always open for him to have a close relationship with them. He's the one that doesn't walk through it as much. He feels bad about that, and projects it on to me. Hence the " You're keeping me from the kids", or justifying his situation with "Can't you see how busy I am with work?". This comes out in all different ways. I have found that what we agree on up front can be completely undone in an instant depending on how he feels. There is also a difference between his ideal self- the one who is the awesome good guy, the understanding husband, the good father- which he is most of the time, but nobody is perfect all of the time. He can not tolerate his imperfect side and so it becomes an unconscious part of him until he dissasociates. An example of this is that I am, in general, a good mom, and I love my kids, but there isn't a mom on the planet who doesn't get irritated some times. I have not raged or yelled at the kids in a destructive way, but I have been irritable, at times. Sometimes they have been mad at me. So when we get into these things, I try to work it out, apologize, and the kids know I love them and things are good most of the time. My H runs on being "perfect" all of the time, and when he is not, it goes into self hatred. We all see one side of him. I'm the only one who is "privileged" *ugh* to see the other side. My kids see all of me. So, my H will go through different scenarios. If his kid doesn't see him first at the airport, he looks like a bad dad. If he goes to the airport, he doesn't get done what he needs to do and he feels bad about that too. He may agree to one of those options, and then deal with feeling bad either way. So either agreement is likely to lead to bad feelings. We may have an "agreement" which could lead to a blow up no matter what. My H wants to be the supportive guy who was supportive of my career. So he agrees to watch the kids so I can go to a conference. However, my leaving triggers fears in him, and in that moment, he wigs out and refuses to watch the kids. The "agreement' we had is different when he begins to feel bad about it. Once he agreed to drive a truck for a move, but it made him late for work. He went on a rant about how his (newly licensed) kid needed to learn to drive a truck. We came up with an agreement that he'd teach the kid to drive one. He completely forgot about it because what he was upset about had nothing to do with his kid learning to drive, but him getting to work on time. Once we were visiting his family, but there was bad weather and I thought we had an agreement to make the visit brief so we could get home. He felt bad about not spending time with his family, and this turned into a rant about me not wanting to spend more time with them because I didn't like them, ( he came up with that out of thin air it isn't true) so the agreement about the weather was completely changed by his feelings which he blamed me for. Your H agreed to an open marriage, because at the time, he thought he should, or felt that this would be what you wanted, or that it was in alignment with the self he wishes to show to the world- maybe that of a modern cool guy who could contain his jealousy and be tolerant. He agreed to being what he thought he should be and what he wanted you to see him as. This concealed his fears and insecurity. Since he was more focused on concealing them, not letting you see them, you assumed this was OK, but really, it wasn't. Now that you actually did it, he is facing these strong feelings. I don't think he can actually express them, so he's going to express them by being angry at anything you do or did-the airport, the details of your "date", your sister, your cousin. You name it. But what he says is a smokescreen. Try to see the feelings behind it. The one thing you did that I think is unsafe is Tinder. You don't know what you are getting with Tinder. While he would have been unhappy with anyone, a stranger introduces the possibility of real danger. I'm sure that scared the daylights out of him. I remember going on a trip with a female friend, and we were out late shopping at a mall. This was before cell phones. I was really just having a good time with my friend and not paying attention to the time. My H went crazy worrying about me. I'm going to reiterate that an open relationship is emotionally stressful for many people, and would have to be for someone with a PD. IMHO, it would be like introducing a whole new set of things to agree on while emotions are being tested. If my H can't honor an agreement to watch the kids so I can go somewhere without him, even with nobody else, there is no way that he'd handle an open relationship. For me, personally, it isn't what I want. If it is important to you, then you may have to assert yourself, and deal with his emotions. I think this is the situation we are all in when we assert our wishes to do something that may not feel comfortable to them. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on January 31, 2015, 10:08:49 AM One thing I'm curious about is how your sister is doing regarding her former DV situation. How long has she been out of it? What stage in processing it is she currently in? Is she in a new r/s now, and if so, does it seem healthier? Is she stuck feeling like a victim (Have you seen the victim/survivor/thriver thing?)
Your marriage has verbal/emotional abuse in it. Depending on where she is, she could be either very supportive... .or be triggered, and potentially make more of a mess of things. I hope your reunion with your H went well. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on February 01, 2015, 01:31:31 PM She's been out for 6 years. She is recovered and in a new r/s. It is much healthier. He's the most laid back person you could ever meet. Their daughters, both from previous marriages, are best friends. He has taken over the father figure for my niece (10) and has shown her such love that my niece has basically stopped asking to see her own father bc she seems to understand that he isn't doing what he should be. Her father has been arrested since for abusing other women, is currently a junky not paying child support and my sister has told him he can give up his rights as a parent or she will take him back to court for sole custody as he hasn't paid child support in over a year. He has no job to pay for a lawyer though. I am immensely proud of her. I did see the victim/survivor/thriver thing. During her victim stage (which lasted a couple years after leaving) she developed an unhealthy r/s with alcohol. Our relationship suffered and I stopped speaking to her for a while. Her husband didn't only abuse her. He also molested me when I was a teenager. She didn't want to believe me then. We didn't really talk about it until a couple of years ago when we started speaking again and she had become a thriver. I was sort of absent for most of the survivor stage.
She was very supportive. I did tell her he has BPD. She told me she could see me going through it. She had suspected for a while because I sometimes go quiet. I have cried silently in her presence and told her nothing or said I was just depressed. She told me I always had a place to stay and she was always there to talk. She also told me she knows what it's like to feel so angry and lose control because you are so mad for things that have happened and for not being strong enough to stop it in the beginning. She promised not to tell my parents until or if I choose to. That was a bit tangential. Back to the original topic. H was in a state when I got home. He shakes and his hands fidget constantly. He cries much of the time. I tried to keep my cool before therapy. It was really difficult. I did my best and managed not to yell. I was able to offer some comfort that he eventually accepted. He got very sick while I was away and hopes it is cancer so that he dies. He also told me he's been suicidal. He had a rope around his neck the other night but contacted a friend. I was not prepared for this. He blames me because I took space. He needed me and I took space; I abandoned him is what I keep hearing. Our dog has a nickel size chunk of skin almost down to the bone missing from his front leg. H did not take him to the vet as I requested. He's been dressing the wound but the wound is deep. I feel angry that he did not take our dog, basically our child, to the doctor. I told him the dog needs to see the vet and I know he did his best to take care of him but the vet can do more, make sure it heals properly and doesn't get infected. I'm so angry about this. Our vet isn't even open today. Now it has to wait longer. He scares me. The twitching and how he slips into anger from crying is terrifying. It makes me think there's more than BPD. Does this happen? I don't know what to do. He talked about wanting to die so much I am terrified he'll kill himself. Eventually he promised he wouldn't but I don't trust him. We fought in therapy. We had the same argument we had 100 times on Wednesday about checking in. His thinking is warped. I started off handling my frustrations well. I kept my tone even and took deep breaths while he was talking nonsense. His therapist corrected him when she saw his warped thinking, checked in with me to find out the real story. My anxiety continued to build. He started raising his voice, speaking to me in that hostile way that I know all too well. The one that gives me goosebumps it scares me so much. And the fear breeds anxiety that births anger. I start to have an anxiety attack. I'm just crying unable to speak. His therapist urges me to take some deep breaths. I do. I try to explain how I feel like nothing is ever right. No matter what I do it's wrong. The constant pressure is too much. I can't take it. There's no room for me or my needs. She tries to mediate. He is still raising his voice and I explode. I screamed at him at the top of my voice that I'm done. This is no way to live and I can't do this anymore. I will never make this better. It's broken, there's too much damage. I leave and sit in the car, crying uncontrollably. After some time he comes outside and smokes a cigarette and gets in and hugs me. Says he's sorry for getting angry. That he knows he didn't handle me not checking in well. I say I just don't know what to do. Maybe there's too much damage. I love him so much, more than anything but it's just so ___ed up and when I try to fix it I lose myself. We drive home and he's talking about suicide. I tell him that I don't want him to die. That I would be devastated. As I merge onto the highway things go south. He's screaming, I'm screaming. I put the window down to literally cool us both off. At home we have gone from me being very supportive and caretaking to him freaking out and me freaking out. I do not know if I am capable of taking care of him in this state. I was already beyond my breaking point and now the responsibility is on me to make him feel better. To make him feel loved. Something I can never do, no matter how hard I've tried. He tells me his emotions and I have to have no feelings. I feel frustrated and even when I stay calm, he freaks out. He twitches and his hands move quickly and nervously. He cries, yells and runs away. Sometimes when he calms down he tries to grab me to make me talk to him. I ask him not to touch me. He gets upset. I don't know what I'm doing. I both love him and feel terrible and feel trapped by him, more so than I ever have before. I feel like I'm lying when I say I'm not going to leave. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on February 01, 2015, 02:01:54 PM You don't have to deal with this alone. Especially suicidal talk. Call a suicide hotline next time, and see if you can get him to talk to them.
Sounds like your sister is there for you. That's good. I'd like to say more, but I gotta run. GK Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Notwendy on February 01, 2015, 02:54:46 PM Bloomer, call 911 if this escalates.
Borderline means just that. They can be on the side of the border between reality and a psychotic breakdown that is real, but they are close enough that something very stressful could put them over the edge. This is one of those times. You've done nothing wrong. Even a mentally healthy person could feel a lot of jealousy and hurt over a poly relationship, but if someone can not manage strong painful feelings, it could push them over the edge. If someone is over the edge, they need medical intervention. Get help if you feel he needs it. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on February 02, 2015, 07:51:49 AM I've gotten him to calm down enough to cool the suicide talk. We're both very easily triggered. My two days of NC were great but he feels like I abandoned him. I told him I didn't abandon him and I had no idea he was suicidal from his text messages.
Yesterday he told me that several of his previous girlfriends went on trips, went NC or just didn't "check in" came back and broke up with him within weeks. He is convinced this is going to happen. He said they all say the same things to him at the end. That they feel trapped and he doesn't blame them. I am currently feeling torn between feeling so bad for him that he's in this place and feels that recovery is not possible and wanting to be the one who stays to wanting him to leave so I don't have to muster the guts to do it because I don't know if I can a) get over the past/present b) accept that he will never be the easy going person I fell in love with. I've been trying to keep my anger in check but have let some comments slip out. I managed not to raise my voice for most of yesterday. He initiated sex last night and something he did made me giggle and I said in a silly way, don't do that,it's too silly. His feelings were hurt and I explained I didn't mean to hurt him. I meant it in a playful way. He had to ask me again why I said it and I felt triggered. I'm so worn down from having the same conversation 2, 3, 4, 5... .20 times. I got a little triggered and started to shut down. Then he got upset with me. He said it would be nice to get a hug. So I gave him a hug and was letting it go and then he asked if I just didn't want to have sex with him. I got triggered again. I told him that I did want to have sex with him. The mood is kind of gone but it isn't because I don't find him attractive or want to have sex with him. We got ready for bed and he talked to me more about feeling like this was the end. That he didn't want to go through this again and maybe should just leave me and move somewhere beautiful and be alone. I don't know what to say when he talks like this. I'm not going to beg him to stay. I don't have it in me. I love him so much and care for him. At the same time, I've been home two days and my body is riddled with stress. My back hurts, I have a headache, little energy, little to no motivation to do anything. He asks me things like, what am I getting from this relationship (meaning me). I told him I love him and care about him and there are plenty of positive things about him as a person. He told me he misses having me as a friend. That he hasn't felt like I've been his friend like I was before we were together in a long time. I feel the same but didn't tell him that. He talked about how angry I've become and how he can't handle the awful things I say to him. I told him I'm trying really not to say mean things and it isn't ok that I do. That I think it's abusive and awful and I feel really ashamed for doing it. I told him the things I say aren't true and he thinks they are. Sometimes there is some truth but I certainly still shouldn't say them. They're not helping anything. Eventually we just stopped talking and fell asleep cuddling. He seems a little less twitchy today and yesterday I texted his therapist to tell her I'm very worried and asked her to check in with him. She did and offered him a session today after work. So, that's positive. I have been emphatic that I do not want him to kill himself and that's the one thing that no matter how angry I am, I always tell him that I would never get over it, that other people would never get over it. He doesn't want to die so much as he wants to stop hurting people and losing people and he doesn't think he'll ever be able to get there. I haven't forgotten all the reasons I fell in love with him. I cry when I think about not having him in my life. I also cry when I think about continuing in this state forever. I'm losing time. I'm missing out on enjoying moments. I want him to be better and I know that may not be realistic. I no longer believe in "recovered". I believe in improved but never free of those behaviors. I feel devastated in thinking about either outcome. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on February 02, 2015, 10:57:01 AM You sound really upset and triggered and afraid of what is happening to you and what you are doing.
I'm going to suggest you take a step back and look at the situation: #1: Your H gets triggered. (And usually gets lost and reacts badly! Very badly!) #2: You get triggered. (And also react badly, much of the time.) Here's the catch: Even if you were magically turned into the best parts of Jesus, Buddha, Ghandi, and a few other non-violent saint types, #1 would still be true. Your H would still get triggered and react badly. So if you focus on problem #1, you have no traction. That leaves you with three places for you to focus on: #2A: Not having triggers. This is a long game, with therapy, etc. Your efforts here are very important, but they won't fix anything today or tomorrow. Your best bet for today is to work on these two: #2B: Not reacting badly when triggered. #2C: Avoiding situations where you will be triggered. One boundary that I recommend for you right now: "I cannot manage my own reactions well enough to safely be in a car with my H right now." Don't drive to MC with him--take two cars, or take a cab and let him drive. Having to roll the window down to cool things off when you are both screaming isn't worth the money savings! My other suggestion is be very mindful of when you are getting upset/triggered, and take a time out. The best way you can... .but prioritize fast and clean over good/supportive/validating! I've run out the door, trying not to shout or slam the door saying "If I stay with you any longer, I will say or do something I will regret later." I can think of lots of better ways than that... .but I know that when I did it, I did NOT have access to any better ways. I only had access to WORSE options than that. So I'm pretty proud of myself for picking that option, even if I did kinda shout or kinda slam the door on my way out. Hang in there, and make sure you take care of yourself! Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on February 02, 2015, 11:51:57 AM I agree with all of the above. I guess the crux of the issue is this.
Excerpt #2C: Avoiding situations where you will be triggered. Basically spending any amount of time with H is triggering. He fidgets constantly and looks really depressed. He's a hairpin trigger and I'm always aware of it. I want to run. Every nerve in my body is in flight mode and I can't do that because he's broken and I don't know what he'll do to himself. I'm going to do my best to handle my triggers but I literally fantasy on the hour about moving to where I was just visiting. And maybe I'll just think of that when I feel triggered. lol Thanks Grey. I hope the Super Bowl went well. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on February 02, 2015, 02:41:41 PM Basically spending any amount of time with H is triggering. He fidgets constantly and looks really depressed. He's a hairpin trigger and I'm always aware of it. I want to run. Every nerve in my body is in flight mode and I can't do that because he's broken and I don't know what he'll do to himself. Are you saying that you find your H's current behavior triggering? It sounds like he is on the edge of dysregulation at any moment... .and that is very hard to be around, especially if you are afraid of what will happen when he does blow up. Unfortunately, the more time you spend away from him, the more it triggers his fear of abandonment... .which makes him more on edge... .which makes you afraid to be around him... .vicious circle there. The first idea that comes to mind are to try to bring this up in MC... .but since your MC couldn't stop the two of you from getting into a big fight last time, that might not be very safe. The other idea is to work on making yourself feel more safe. The path for that which I can see is getting really solid on boundaries and contingency plans, so you know that you can get away and protect yourself at any time of the day or night if he starts yelling at you. That will help in two ways--first if you know you can get out safely, it is easier to stay. Second, he will lose the "payoff" from a rage--if you aren't there to be raged at, it doesn't give him the satisfaction that it would. Unfortunately, he goes for suicidal thoughts at times like that, and you don't want to risk that either. Have you read the topics we have on that yet? Depression and Suicidal Ideation (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69192.0) TOOLS: Dealing with threats of Suicide and Suicide Attempts (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79032.0) Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on February 02, 2015, 03:38:12 PM I revisited the suicide threats tool. I think I've been doing a good job when he brings it up. When we're talking about other things, I'm not helping and we're fighting a lot. I'm still really angry. I still want a lot of space.
I've been curious about the fact that his therapist hasn't felt the need to take further action. I was in the room when he told her he had a rope around his neck. I'm starting to really wonder about her approach. She is his therapist, not our MC specifically. This was a one-off session because of the crisis. I don't normally go in with him. I'll probably pack an emergency bag as you suggested but I can't imagine leaving with the threat of him committing suicide and I know he knows that. If he seriously threatens again, I will be calling a hotline or 911 no question. I'm hoping he's calmed down enough not to threaten. I don't have a problem talking to him about those kinds of feelings and I never tell him they're wrong. I haven't unpacked my suitcase yet. I haven't even showered today to be honest. I have had two phone calls with close friends to talk about things. I might soon be on the leaving board. I just can't see what either one of us is getting from this right now, no matter how much we love each other and want to make this work. There's just too much damage. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Notwendy on February 02, 2015, 05:36:53 PM I didn't think it was possible, but after some of my own work on myself, my mother triggered me less. She still tried to push buttons but I didn't react. I went from trying to react to not reacting. I was amazed after years of this.
I don't think most of us will achieve sainthood, we can get triggered, but it is amazing when some of the triggers are gone. It was at about the time that my mom didn't trigger me as much, that my H didn't either. It took away some of his ability to push my buttons ( there's still plenty... ) It is hard work but wow when it pays off it is worth it. I started with boundaries, but those boundaries became a part of me. I can know better what is someone's emotional stuff and what is mine. Whatever you can do to take care of yourself and your boundaries- after this episode calms down- is worth it Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on February 02, 2015, 07:46:57 PM Well... .sounds like you need more space from him, at least temporarily.
I'm able to give that to my wife, and stay married... .at least for a while. Your H may not be able to. Hang in there and take care of yourself! Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on February 03, 2015, 07:50:10 AM We were watching a movie last night, after we ate the dinner that I made for us (ready the minute he got home just to be extra nice). I had texted one of my friends earlier and she finally replied so we were making plans to hang out this week. I remembered that my other friend always used to make us Groundhog's Day cookies (in the shape of a groundhog) in college and that I hadn't wished her a Happy Groundhog's Day. We see each other a few times a year and I always text her Feb 2 and her birthday. Well I could see H tensing up because now that he doesn't text people and I do, it drives him mad. He used to get mad at me for caring who he was texting and making comments. So eventually I just started texting my own friends and stopped worrying about him, makes sense right? Now it's a problem for him. The worst thing is that I asked him if he was ok and he said yes. I got what ended up being the last message from either of those two friends for the night and he got up, took the computer (which was supplying the movie to the TV) and stormed to the bedroom.
I had started to say what's going on but just left it. I texted some other friends to keep me busy and from following. He came out and apologized from storming out but said that his T had suggested during their session that day that he try to give me space to deal with my emotions since he wouldn't give me any kind of real separation. And I know he was trying and I did feel and say aloud thanks for deciding our marriage plan with your therapist. Eventually I just listened and I didn't raise my voice. I told him it was fine. He said he still wanted to sleep in the same bed (well, that's great since we only have one in our tiny apartment) but he was trying to give me space and avoid conflict. So this is good. I guess. Except that I feel really angry that he won't try a separation. He says he already moved to a different country for me and if we separate he's just done. I don't know how long this will last and if it will actually do anything. I feel myself pulling away. I already have plans with friends for Thursday and Friday. My only goal right now is to not flip out and say nasty things to him. That's about all I can muster. This morning my eyes weren't even open and he was trying to have deep conversation with me. He said as soon as he thought he had BPD he committed to changing... .That was almost 2 years ago. He wouldn't even go to therapy for months after that. I fought and fought for this r/s and that was always when he was breaking up with me so easily. Now that I've just been worn down after 3+ years he is turning around. I just feel like it's the same push and pull game. If I start to lean in, like I always do, he'll push me away again and it will start all over. I have therapy today so that's good. Lots to fill my T in on. Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on February 04, 2015, 12:40:50 PM I had therapy. I think it may be abundantly clear that this r/s is too painful for me. I have too many scars that I don't think I'm capable of healing if I stay. H is of course now very calm and keeps talking about how much he loves me and how things are better and we can work through this. And I'm just filled with anger. Everything reminds me of something from the past, sometimes distant sometimes not so distant. I haven't worked up the nerve. He keeps demanding answers. I'm terrified, like everyone else, that I'm giving up hope too soon. He was the guy that I used to dream about but I don't think that person was real. Some things were real and those are the things I love but I don't think they're enough to make up for everything else. I'm just keeping my distance. I've been making plans with friends for most evening this week. Also taking our dog to the vet since he didn't know to do that.
Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Grey Kitty on February 04, 2015, 02:03:39 PM Sounds so tough on you, Bloomer.
You need space to heal a bit and get your head straight. His fear of abandonment is already through the roof. Remember that it is OK for you to need the space for yourself, and that not giving yourself the space you need will be worse for your marriage than taking it. Consider an evening away from the house alone too. GK Title: Re: From bad to worse, I don't want to go home... Post by: Bloomer on February 04, 2015, 02:27:10 PM I've been trying just to stay quiet when I feel angry around him. When I have expressed anger, even in a reasonable way, he doesn't want anything to do with me and that's fine but I feel like he is being passive aggressive sometimes.
This morning I was still sleeping when he got up. He showered came back to the bedroom and turned on the light in the corner to change. I woke up and I wasn't mad bc he needed to change. It of course reminded me of all the times I got "in trouble" for waking him up in the morning, or even if I came to bed after him, and being told how inconsiderate I am. I no longer turn on a light when I am up before him. I use my phone now, maybe I don't have to any more but I don't care to test it out. He leaves the room to do other things. After it becomes clear that he's going to be gone more than a few, I get up and turn off the light and I'm definitely muttering to myself how inconsiderate and hypocritical he is. (I also had a migraine, which doesn't help feeling like any light is, well, the devil.) He comes back in after being gone about 20 minutes and tells me he heard me getting mad and how it's ridiculous because he needed to get ready. I told him I understand he needed to get ready, and that was fine, but then he just left the light on. He said he wasn't finished. I said he could have turned it off and turned it back on later. Eventually I just stopped talking. This is just an example of something that sets me off and I feel like I can't be completely out of bounds in thinking he's doing some of these things just to antagonize me. And then he acts all calm, like I'm insane for thinking he's inconsiderate. I haven't done it recently, but I'm pretty sure if he was sleeping in later, especially if he wasn't feeling well, he would be pretty upset with me. And this is where my anger is born. At some point, he has had so many expectations of me and I've gone out of my way to change behaviors (my fault, I know) but now he keeps saying things are different, he's different. Should I have just turned off the light without saying anything? Probably. I'll have a break after work taking the dog to the vet. Another evening spent sitting in rush hour traffic to do something he couldn't do while I was away for 2 weeks. Not to mention that he honestly believes he did everything he could for our dog's injury and I feel like he neglected him. And he defends his decision because he didn't know he wasn't doing the right thing. But then I come back to the fact that he didn't even tell me how bad it was so that I could weigh in on the decision if should he go to the vet or not. He just lied to me, so as not to worry me and then didn't take him. And this might be more problematic than anything he's ever done to me. I do need space and I'm realizing that I just have to take it and if he can't handle it and leaves, then that's his choice. I called my mother yesterday bc one of her oldest friends died and instead of consoling her, as I'd planned, I wasn't very comforting bc I was so angry/anxious and also haven't told her anything about my marriage. I apologized and told her I was just stressed/jet lagged/hormonal but I really don't like how it's seeping into other areas of my life and I need to get a handle on it. |