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Right now what has me the most worked up is my mother.  She will use judges she knows and everything else to make my wife life a hell.  My mother has no right to interfere in my life kike thst. I came for emotional support.  This is everything thst my wife accuses my mother on and if my mother does this I will quit my job and I will sever contact with her which means I lose wife and mother.  My wife at least has the decency to allow me the choice to ruin my life

I would hazard you are not thinking clearly at the moment it is no time to make a desicion of any kind!

Your mother sounds pretty difficult.

Does she make pronouncements like this regularly?

Does she stick with them when she does?

Your mom is NOT helping you with this kind of stunt.

That aside... .blocking your wife on your phone for a couple days sounds like a good idea for you anyway. (Even a broken clock is right twice a day :) )

Hang in there and try to take care of yourself.

 GK

HH this is terrible that the few people you have left are trying to threaten you.  Your mom has no right to threaten you any more than your wife does; however, you are kind of taking this as an excuse to do what your wife wants (quit your job etc.) and that is going to make things 10x worse.  Be smarter than that, as if you quit you can't help anyone.

We can see things that you can't right now.  First off, ignore your wife's texts.  :)o you really think she won't let you ever talk to the kids?  The kids eventually won't allow that.  She is texting you this nonsense because she knows she can get a reaction.  Therefore, you have to stop responding.  It's nonsense like you said.

Your mom also can't make your wife's life hell because she knows judges, unless your wife actually gets in front of a judge for some reason.  So you don't have to tell your mom every little thing right now.

What's the def of insanity?  :)oing the same thing over and over and expecting change.  And yet each post ends the same way - you are listening to wife's craziness.  What can you do right now that's different?

STOP RESPONDING TO your wife's crazy calls and texts for a day or two.  The worst that can happen is not as bad as what will happen if you keep listening.

If you quit your job you have NO source of income, NOTHING to take your mind off the situation and little hope of repairing it because you will be financially worse than you are now.

Maybe your mom is threatening you because she sees how you are not listening to any logical advice - I understand you love your wife and she is sick, but you are not helping her to keep giving in.

Deep inside your wife is BEGGING you to stop indulging her whims and do the sensible thing - so listen to the right thing and don't listen to her disease. 

DEEP INSIDE your wife NEEDS you to keep working, and stop buckling under so she can respect you.  Please stop listening to her disease and listen to the people here and the rational way to go.  Ultimately you have to make up your own mind but you really need a bit of time off from listening to this person.

And she is much worse than most of the cases on this board.  Much, much worse.  She keeps yanking you back into her spider web so she can bat you around some more.  

No one is saying to leave her or do anything else extreme.  Just stop getting hit over the head.

Just because you have two people yelling at you to do something (wife and mother) doesn't mean that you have to do it.  The strongest thing you can do right now is not respond to temptation to give in, as there will always be more hoops to jump through.  Instead, take a breath, do your job, stop answering wife's phone calls, and maybe go to the gym or, gasp, a movie.  Or keep working.

As for the 11K mistake - most people in the world are allowed to make mistakes without being beaten up over it.  It happens.  

You know what would be a bigger mistake?  If you quit altogether.  That would be a SIX FIGURE MISTAKE.  

Do you really want to be ob hunting with your wife and/or mother yelling at you - this job's not good enough, why are you interviewing when I'm home sick, yada yada - you can still look for a job while you have this one, but don't quit.  Please don't quit.  Getting a job of any kind is hard, particularly one that won't fire you while you're being harassed.

My mother sent threatening texts to my wife threatening basically to destroy her.

That is completely unhealthy and I made it VERY clear to my mother to never do that despite what was going on but she crossed that boundary.  I told her it would drive a wedge between us and she crossed that boundary

My wife i am not taking her calls nor texts now.  She has crossed a major boundary.  She claims now she never would deny me the kids and I am sure she is scared of my mother right now

How can i go back to a wife at this point who has pushed me and pushed me to this point like she has?"

How can i go in and work with somebody who has done this sort of thing and is obviously as unstable and unhealthy as my wife has also said?

Both of these people claim to love me and care, but both have put me in a terrible position.

Unfortunately, this will cost me my families and my career.

Im at work right now trying to tie up some loose ends. 

We all can see what my wife is.  The problem now is that I have the same thing with my mother who completely disregarded me.  Basically my wife could probably go file a restraining order based on what my mother sent.  Completely inexcusable.  I do not care if it was to protect me.  I made it perfectly clear that she should not.  So how do i now enforce that boundary with my mother?

Pardom my language but ___ both of them for disregarding me. ___ my wife for trying to control me to the point i have nothing and ___ my mother for crossing the ONE thing i forbade anyone to do which was to take my honor and dignity and not doing the one thing i asked which was to simply be a listener and kind.  I should have known this would happen.  This is exactly what my wife said would happen.  My mother gave her all teh ammo she could ever want.  My mother is doing this sort of thing with my sister's ex who is a horrible person, but my sister encourages it.  I do not...

You unfortunately lost control of the situation apologies i know it is hard you are probably a wreck you need to take 5 gather yourself an make a plan then act desicevley BPD thrive on mayhem an it rules now you need to shut it down

 

I think it best you limit contact with both for a while.  Keep contact at work... .to work items with your mom.

It sounds like you are a professional... .so you should be able to pull this off.

Here is the thing... .your mom has the "right idea"... .she is going about it all wrong.

You wife has wrong ideas... .and is going about them the wrong way...

Please keep this in mind.

Don't be reactive... .

 

Remember... you don't control what you mom does... .you are not responsible for her actions.

You don't control what your wife does... .you are not responsible for her actions...

The fact that you are not responding is good.  You don't want to be involved in any restraining order stuff or give anyone ammo to suck you in.

You seem a little healthier in your last email.  :)ealing with people like these two can make your head spin.  So, don't respond or even (if you can help it) don't read the texts or listen to the voicemails.

Are you sure your mom sent your wife those texts?  :)id you see them?

"How can i go back to a wife at this point who has pushed me and pushed me to this point like she has?  How can i go in and work with somebody who has done this sort of thing and is obviously as unstable and unhealthy as my wife has also said?  Both of these people claim to love me and care, but both have put me in a terrible position."

You don't have to answer these questions now.  The answers will reveal themselves in time.  Focus on today:  :)o your job properly, relax after work or do something unrelated to your wife.  Challenge yourself to be calm and professional with your boundaries.  In time, she may beg you to come back, she may offer to bring you to her counselor, you never know what may happen.  In time, your mom may calm down and apologize.  It is not your responsibility.  I know you want all the answers right now, but if you push it, it will just feed their energy.  Let them spin and spin without you there to be blamed.  They will tire out.  And maybe when your wife realizes this abuse isn't working anymore, she'll try to do the right thing.

Your mom is probably fed up with how you can give in to your wife.  You often acknowledge you shouldn't get sucked in, that you can't afford this or that, but then a few posts later, you've given in to your wife's whims.  Now she wants to take the last thing you have that kind of keeps you afloat, your job.  Maybe your mom doesn't want you to make a big mistake.  She's going about it wrong of course.  

Keep your head clear.  Work, rest, see your T, don't respond to nonsense.

Wife called this morning.  She said apologized for all of this and said that I should not quit my job nor relationship with my mother because they mean alot to me.  That I should go into work.  I did.  My mother on other hand has only made one strange text to me and not at work so far, and nobody has heard from her.  She told me she is moving out of her house and I could stay there. Now there is other stuff to that...

That was 3 hours ago.  Now my wife is having a massive panic attack.  She is terrified my mother is out plotting to do things to her.  Make up lies which I do not put past my mother.  If she feels kids are in danger, she might.

I am scared.  This is bad

You are not responsible for what your mom does... .or your wife.

I agree with FF on this. However, it's been my experience that it's not a good idea to speak ill of your wife to your mother, or your mother to your wife. Both of them love you, and if either of them feel like the other is hurting you... .this is the mess that will happen.

In the future, try not to speak to them about the other. At this point hun, I'd recommend some therapy for you. IS that something you are willing to do? Is that something you and afford and fit into your lifestyle? 

HH, you changed things a bit and stopped responding and look what happened - your wife had a moment of clarity.  Whether that remains, I don't know.  We all get sucked in when they are being rational, and sometimes over-apologize or overcompensate, and then we are hurt again.  So keep following this road.  Don't worry about what your mom does - she is stable enough to not break the law. 

Can you imagine what would have happened if you had quit your job and then a half hour later get a message from your wife NOT to?

You are the only rational person in this situation so you have to do rational things.  Keep your job, take a breath, stop worrying about your wife and mom.  Your mom will come to her senses like your wife did.  Of course, your wife's "moment of clarity" (common with BPD) may not last if you go back to your old ways.  She will have more ups and downs.  So stay the course and do the few stable things you can, like working.

((hug))

I go to therapy.  I have been 3 times in past 2 weeks.  I am done with them all.  My mother who refuses to apologize for what she did and my wife who wont let it go and keeps on how i hold nobody accountable.

Everything around me is getting bad.  I dont know what my wife wants.  I cannot make somebody apologize.  My mother was wrong and refused, but spoke with some compassion for my wife.  My wife keeps on basicaly about retribution on my mother.

It is almost like my wife got me to come into work today so she can torture me

She is at home now having a panic attack where she cannot function... and xanax and 2 clozapan will not let her sleep.  She cut herself last night and hit her head.  Everything was a fragile state and was a fine line.  It might have been heading towards divorce and she might have been nasty but it was not dangerous like it is now.  Then my mother poured gasoline on the fire

I am now left with nobody.  No friends, no family, no nothing to talk to.

Both women refuse to apologize, and certainly my wife seems unable to empathize with my mother on things.  Now I am stuck feeling guilty like i sided with my mother on this.

Meanwhile I get word today my mother is kicking out my stepdad and my grandfather has 2 months to live and work is crashing down around me.

I am left with no other option... My life as i know it is over.  20 years lead to this point and i gave everything to get her and because

a. my wife is nuts

b. my mother is nuts

c. i have poor boundaries because I care about both... particularly with my wife

everything is gone.  I am not giong to try and pick up the ___ing peices of my life again.  It was too much work to get to this point and I gave up too much to get to this point.  Im too old to rebuild all this

Shame on all of them for putting me here.  I dont know if my wife will kill herself.  I dont know what else to do for her.  She is dying right now.  I am going mad.  It feels like my only option is to turn my back on her now.

I am angry because I was avoiding this and I do not now know how I feel about anyone or if I am even sane enough to analyze any of this properly

HH... .try to slow down your thinking... .

Focus on what you can control... .don't worry about the rest... .

Why?

Does worry help?

You control you... .you control your boundaries. 

Do not abdicate you responsibilities for you... .nobody else is responsible for your boundaries


Why cast shame on them?  That is on "their side" of the street.  They may... .or may not clean up their side... .don't worry about that... .see point above about worry.

Are you going to clean up "your side" of the street

Neither of them need to apologize.

This is not your fault and you can't control it - so don't try.

Yes, turning your back (at least temporarily!) is a better option than killing yourself or anything else which will help no one.  

Do you see how these people are mentally ill and you can't control them?  You don't know the right thing to do because they keep changing.  So do what you KNOW you need to do.  You need to go to work.  (And she can only torture you if you answer the calls - which are pointless.)  You need to rest.  You need to protect yourself.

You don't need to let people abuse you anymore.  

And I thought there was no hope either, several times.  It's amazing what happens when you set boundaries.  Turning your back on them will help them, even if they don't realize it at first.

They keep giving you orders that will just hurt you or the other person.  You can't take those orders.  You have to step out of the madness.  You are correct.  You can do it, HH!  It's not like your filing for divorce.  Step away.

And again, if you think the kids or your ex are in danger, tell someone.  You can't control all this.  (If she is a danger to herself, sometimes local hospitals have crisis teams you can talk to to force them into being committed.  Wouldn't that be a relief?)

Most of it sounds like vitriol and even if it is genuine or there's a moment of clarity, you can't help right now because the rest ends up abusive toward you.  It doesn't matter whether some of the conversation is ok - the rest is bad and that's not acceptable.

STOP ANSWERING THE PHONE or responding.  Stop answering.  Stop answering.  She has no reason to call during work.  :)on't answer, don't answer, don't answer.  You need to change this.

(If you had listened to her and quit your job, right now she'd be freaking out over how you could do such a thing.  Remember that.  Listening to people who are telling you contradictory, mentally ill things does not help.  Stop listening.)

yea... apparantly the ex is over a month behind on child support and is all pissed at us over today and her grandmother was at the same hospital that her mother and father both died at... one cause of staph

and her grandmother they discovered dying because she too has staph infection from that same hospital... .

just crazy...

i need a rest

hurt --

I hope you can hear momtara and formflier through the chaos. Seriously, the advice they are giving you is sound.

Think about it. I know it's hard, and there's a bunch of emotion clouding your ability to be objective -- and the emotion is real. But try for just five or ten minutes. Push through the confusion, clear your mind, and think about it -- nothing is really happening. It's all your wife freaking out, causing your mom to freak out, both of them causing you to freak out -- nothing is really happening. It's all noise. Turn it off, and see what happens.

That said -- as soon as you turn it off, expect it to get louder -- or, rather, expect your wife to try to crank up the volume. It's called an extinction burst -- lots of information on that here. That email that you shared at the beginning of this thread was likely the beginning of the burst. Don't respond. Do your best to wall yourself off from the noise -- it's likely mostly a bunch of idle threats, but the words sound very scary, because you're perceiving them as having real meaning, vs just being noise, contrived to knock you of balance and keep you in the F.O.G. It's the relationship equivalent of how the military uses PSY-OPS on their enemies.

Fear, Obligation, Guilt. That's what this is, hurt. 

I know you want to fix things with your wife. I respect that entirely.

I think you need to go 3 weeks No Contact with your wife. Period. and I think you need to go 3 weeks NC or LC with your mother too. You need a mental break from these women... .both of them. Get a new cell phone. Screen your calls at work... request caller ID if you don't have it at work. You need a mental break to get out of the FOG from both of them.

There is fresh air. There is room to breathe if you make the room for yourself!

Tell your wife "I realize you are going to feel abandonded, and it is not my intention to abandon you, however I truly need some space right now to gather my thoughts. Therefore, I will not be speaking with you for 3 weeks. I will contact you by [phone, email etc.] On such and such date. Please do not contact me by any means until then, or I will be forced to extend my silence."

Whatever deadline you set, mean it. I strongly encourage you to at least do 3-5 days if you cannot do weeks.

Whatever communication you choose, you must start with acknowledging her feelings, real or imagined.

You are an incredibly unselfish person... .but it is killing you. be selfish. It is ok this time.

hh,  here's what I'm hearing... .

You know your wife is borderline.

You suspect your mother is borderline.

Your wife is abusive in every way possible. The emotional and verbal abuse is intolerable for you at this point.

Your mother is abusive in only slightly more subtle ways. You are increasingly sensitive to her abusive comments and behaviors even if not directed at you.

Your wife drinks too much and is dependent on pills, Rx legal or borrowed.

Your mother drinks too much.

Your wife has banished you from your house.

Your mother has banished your stepfather from the house.

Your wife is dealing with the loss of her parents.

Your mother is dealing with the imminent loss of a parent.

Do I have it right? And if I do, what do you think is your role, if any at all, in sorting out their extreme emotional problems?

To add to this question, do you have the strength and skill to keep this from getting worse?

If you can't do three weeks (that may be long because there are kids involved) can you at least do it for a few days?  Even a day?  You are right, you need a rest.  What would make you purely happy?  A good movie, a meal by yourself at a restaurant, a drive somewehre you always wanted to see?  Think about it.

The point is well made that nothing is happening - it's people abusing you and letting you react.  You need to be strong by being silent.

I think a fleet of five psychiatrists couldn't handle these two people at this point.  Step away.

pretty much all there.  Couple of things is that it is my father and not my mothers parent that is dying so she doesnt have any effect.  They ahve been divorced for 30 years.  Also as for banishing my stepfather... .she divorced him already and he just simply refuses to leave despite court order.  So she is actually moving out and filing for eviction to forcibly remove him since he refuses.  It is upsetting to her to have to do that though.

my role in my parents problems is not mine.  Yesterday my wife could not function. She started out with compassion and clarity.  Then panicked big time.  Could not function but said she would handle it on her own.  Good I thought.  she had said she hoped i could come home today so at 3:30 pm since i was tired and beat up too... I said i would get going.  It took about 15 minutes more to close up things and I had to stop by to get my meds.  Then traffic hit and I was not home til 5.  She was not happy and questioning me.  She says a call could have been warranted which I agree with and apologized.  She then said she was did not care if i was there or not.  That hurt.  Then she started questioning me on my job and mother.  I shut it down there and said that she had encouraged me to go onto job.  She said she talked it over with her doc and this was all proper to ask.  I said, I do not know that your doctor understands what I have been through and I am just trying to make it day to day and not even look at future.  This line of questioning is not fair and usually starts a fight.  She got upset and went to bed at 6 pm.  I showered and ate food that i thanked her for before going to sleep.  I got up early this morning to invite her to breakfast before work.  She declined and then has been harrassing me ever since.  Just accusing me of the same sort of things...

Called me 20 times already... texted numerous times.  I told her not to call me.  I have phone on silent.  I am sick.  She kicked me from house again and told me my son did not want to hang out with me anyways.  She is manipulating my faults and makign the penalty bigger.

She is demanding access to my personal computer.  I have nothing to hide there but its the last thing I have to myself.  I have a severe OCD reaction to it.  Requiring certain cleanliness on it and i built it myself.  Its my most prized physical item other than family.  I gave her passwords and told her she can check but that it will have a severe effect on me.  I said i would be happy to show her everything at home.  I do not know what she is doing now.  I want her to know I am honest and that is more important than my OCD and the trauma it will cause.  It will cause severe trauma to me, but OCD i know is not real and its not fair to punish others with my issues

I told her I felt threatened at this point and could not take any calls.  She said my mother threatened her and i told her she could file with the police on my mother.  That is her right and it was unfair of my mother...

she crying in messages and sayign she is going to see her grandmother who coincidentally has staph from teh same hospital that her father got it in and died.  Cept she did not even have an operation!  She is dying .  I texted my wife that I will talk to her but only words of compassion and no accusatory things may be said.  I do care and want to be of comfort with this sort of thing

 

Did I understand that you gave you wife a password to your computer? 

yup i did.

Many years ago... before married or anything.  Things were at a bad point... she had attempted 2 suicides and was just off the deep end.  No excuse for me, and I was talking with a woman online.  She found out.  Obviously, that would shake her trust.  So I feel the priveledge of privacy on the internet was given up by me.  I have nothing to hide... honestly, if I did, I know how to clean it up and she knows that, but she has that right to me. 

We talked on the phone.  She expressed how she felt healthy for most part until she made a snide remark about my mother which I asked if that was healthy to the conversation which she said no.  She said that she is constantly paranoid my family and I are plotting against her.  This was what I was scared of with my mothers threat and why I was soo upset about it.  She can be very paranoid at times.  She ODed on lithium years ago and for a couple of months would see things that were not real and would become overly paranoid at times.  I think its permanently damaged her mind and she knows my mother is not to be triffled with.  Now that being said, my wife is the only person who has really ever done severe wrong to any of her children or herself that she has not actually gotten involved in.  She has slipped up a couple of times and said something when physical violence and the threat of taking kids from me which was still not warranted, but she does have compassion for my wife and does want her to do better and have a relationship.

She then said she cannot keep doing this and she will no longer contact me and leave me be.  She said she cannot keep going through the trouble with grief and her parents while at the same time being paranoid from my family and she does not trust me nor feel safe.  I agree she needs those things.  It is not my fault and I know I am not doing those things, but she deserves to feel safe regardless.  I acknowledge that.  My gut said to fight and defend I am not that way and so forth, but that is her reality.  I do not want her to feel that way and that is a problem she has inside which I did not tell her.  I accept that though and that it probably means we are over and is the real answer why anytime i get close she withdraws and things get bad.  It just means its not healthy to be together and is heartbreaking.

I felt it was a healthy conversation.  I am saying this matter of fact, and I am heart broken, but I do not feel teh insanity of all the rest.  I worry about her.  I do not know where she goes.  I worry bout her more than me.  It angers me if my family would have stayed out I could have possibly laid out boundaries and turned things around a bit into a better spot.  Maybe not, but family involvement is wild card that I cannot control outside of permanently removing them

She made point that with my job my mother is always involved somehow.  She always does have some control.  I fear losing my job, I fear losing the income.  I think wife does too.  I think though that I have made it clear to my mother that if she does use it as leverage to interfere in my life i will quit and i will pull myself from her.  Not that we contact each other much.  We talk about 15 minutes a day and holidays and thats it. Honestly, my relationship with my mother is good other than my wife.  She does not know much about me, she thinks she does, but i always kept to myself.  I know my mother is sick to a degree and if my wife and i could have kept the crap out of the office none of this other stuff would have happened.  Which my wife says is the problem.  My wife hates small business and I am a small business owner too.  At same time, if I was in a corporate job, as mentioned, I would probably be fired for what wife and i do at work.

So i am not sure there is an answer here.  I do worry.  She is not eating and throws up when she does, she is losing hair, she sleeps most of time, her doc has her on extended release xanax/vyvanse/clozapine.  She cannot sleep though even with 2 clozapine.  She cut herself the other day.  tripping more and bruised her head.  She is a mess.  Obviously paranoid.  I think she feels she may benefit from a hospital stay, but two problems

a. financial... even with insurance its not cheap and we do nto have a credit card to put anything on, but this is not main reason

b. main reason is that there are 2 mental wards in area.  One is the 13th floor of the community hospital.  This place is horrible.  They literaly have patients living on cots in the hallways.  There is NO therapy only meds given.  The other place is located as part of the same hospital both her parents and grandmother have been treated in in the past two months and that 2 got staph from and all 3 died or will be dying.  The mental toll of that place is not going to be healthy.  So that leaves private send away places and once again... they are not going to take her without a credit card.

Her doc btw the way finally responded to a message from me when I said she would miss an appointment.  Figures.  I am not sure if i should tell doc about the cutting or the spot she is in.  Her doc seems to want nothing to do with me about her

The thing about the computer sounds to me like the guys on here who have to show their wives all their texts to prove they are not cheating.  What if she looks up this site?  Are you sure you have nothing on there that won't make this worse?  i think you should change the password.  Does she give you passwords to her stuff and her phone?  Can you look through her phone?  If it will cause a strong reaction, don't do it again.  You can just change the password without telling her.  If she says anything, then you know she tried to get in.

  "Then traffic hit and I was not home til 5.  She was not happy and questioning me."

You see why communicating and jumping through hoops makes things worse, right?  She always finds a problem.  If you had called her from the car you would have been breaking the law.  Stop apologizing - you did nothing wrong.  Responding to her is like laying out a welcome mat for more and new and different abuse.   

This is a boundary issue.  Your password... your accounts.

If there is a trust issue... .it is a bad idea for the spouse to be the "accountability partner"... .

So... maybe a better solution is to get her to pick someone to monitor her... .and you... .with the agreement that you both submit to the monitoring.

Otherwise it is a very unbalanced... .unhealthy thing...

I don't think you can ignore something you mentioned previously... .how much does she drink, and what is the degree of her prescription drug abuse? And how and how much is this affecting her mental condition?

It could be that she needs a month long rehab stay just to get her health back in balance and give her the ability to even attempt to address the PD and marriage issues.

This is exactly what therapists recommend to rebuild betrayed trust.  It's in every every recovery book I've read.

See split: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271186.0


I'm not sure I see her violating any "boundaries".

She has had the password for years. Many couples share emails, computers, etc.  There is no right and wrong here and she certainly isn't in violation of anything - she asked.

Are we missing the big picture here - possibly even pilling onto the HH's drama?

She has BPD.  Both parents died.  She is in crisis.  This is her grasping at straws.

Most of what I've read is her grasping at straws.

Not seeing this as the biggest issue may be missing the forest for the trees.

It seems to me that the goal should be dealing with the primary issue (women in illogical, emotional crisis) and not getting all caught up in every straw she is grasping.

HH, you need to be rising above this - not being consumed by it.  Problem is that you are in your own crisis.  You need to get serious and get real help before someone is dead.

I know you have a therapist.  I don't get the sense you have dialed him all the way in.  What does the therapist know?

We also sent you crisis support information right in your neighborhood.  Have you talked to anyone at the crisis center?  What did they say?

The danger of a few weeks ago has subsided - there is a bit of a lull here- its time to get on it.

Hurthusband

You mention your wife is on Clozapine, Xanax and Vyvanse and that she is drinking alcohol. Your wife being in crisis and drinking alcohol in conjunction with her medication especially Vyvanse is something that will be impacting massively on her already fragile mental state.

My h was in crisis like your wife was a year ago and I too was in chaos. I emailed my h's P all relevant info about his mental state and associated behaviours. The P used this as 'third party information' to help my h who eventually spent time in hospital. You mention your wife's P not wanting anything to do with you, I was met with a similar response. I didn't care, nothing could have been worse than the situation I was in. I was also terrified my h would die if I did nothing.

It could help your wife and all of you if a professional is made aware of just how difficult things are. Is this something you could do?

There's a good question. As scared as you are, not doing anything may just make things worse. Maybe she has to be hospitalized and kept there until she really gets the right help. Wouldn't that be a relief?

Outside of the cutting I have told her therapist all of these things. And her therapist won't even respond to me.  It's almost like the therapist wants my wife happy so she keeps coming back.  Last night my wife called for help for her sister with something mundane.  I did help with it made a call.  Both where Thankful.  Wife had earlier said she would not contact me and I should never contact her again.  It was weird then when she also asked me to stay with our son since she was going to be gone for a while so I did.  We were looking at movies when she got home so I asked her if I should go now which she said no.  I invited her to watch a movie with me but she just sat there on Internet before getting mad at sons mistake  and went to sleep.  She fell and I asked if she was ok.  I went to bed too after the movie with son.  She could not sleep and woke me up at 3 to argue asking me what I told my mother about rodeo tickets she had offered me to take son to since she heard I would be with him.  I had told her my son said thank you but the rodeo was not his thing because my wife didn't want him going to anytbing concerning my mother.  My wife said I lied about her son and I should have enforced a boundary telling my mother  that because she threatened my wife none of them would have anything to do with her.  I felt my mother was being kind and so I tried to be polite.  Was I wrong?

It started escalating from there. I went downstairs to another room and she followed.  She said I had to leave or she would call police.  I said I had a right to be there too.  She threatened more so I left for my car.  She continued to say I could never come back but I said I did have a right.  She said she didn't feel safe with me so I w as a danger.  I asked what I had done and pointed out she had been violent and threatened and I had not.  She went beer saying that would jeopardize her probation.  She held onto car so I couldn't pull away before subbing toe and ripping nail off.  I went to check and help her into bed before at 5 am by now going to sleep. Doorbell woke me up and it was a gift.  Apparantly she stayed up during movie buying me gifts for vday.  She stated that I said she only got me a book for holidays while I got bigger things and I didn't like her gifts.  What I had said was I always appreciated the gifts because yiu thought of me.  I would be happy with just a card and heartfelt note but what hurts is even though you don't think I do I spend hours getting you a gift and spending alot of money and it makes yiu hate me more.  She kind of threw the gift at me then said she didn't mean to but really wanted me to open it saying she doesn't know if I would like it but she really tried.  I knew it meant alot and I was terrified of the outcome of this might be.  I knew it was a timebomb.  I wanted her to know I cared so I opened the gift.  It was a roku 3.  I don't know alot about these to be honest.  We have a ps4 for kids so I thought it was similiar.  I also never get to watch tv.  I haven't watched a show of mine in weeks because we just watch what wife does plus im scared of cost or trying to match what she percieves as equal effort with cfee grandnin bills due this week but I did not say any of that.  I could tell she was proud of it and thst made me feel good.  I mentioned how it was cool and thanked her and was looking at it. She asked me if I knew what it was and I said what I thought but she claimed I knew more cause she did and got upset saying I was trying to hurt her.  She was hurting.  I didn't want to hurt her.  I started crying and she did and ran upstairs.  I went up after and then it started in how she tried hard and got me another gift which I did need.  She spent couple of hundred which was completely unnecessary and it was kind of course all I really wanted was a hug and to hold her which I don't get.  I think about it alot. I love my wife and I want her approval and her to recognize my love as love and not indifference and hate.  She was upset and brought up how I screwed up deal with mom and asked me to leave because I was getting hysterical.  I'm being told I don't care and I'm picking mother over her and I dont appreciate her and all these things I don't feel.  Things that in many ways feel like projections and I can't refute without invalidating but I can't accept cause they are not how I feel.  I can't tel her they are projections because they are horrible and she doesn't want to be that.  She asks me to leave and I stumble out writing this. She asked me to come home to discuss a course of action for next 6 months.  She said she will never argue in front of kids with another man again.  She won't bring up my mother... .

I tried to walk away last night.   I tried to stay away.  I don't want to hurt her but everything I do and say takes on a different meaning to her.  She is hurting.  I feel sick.  Of course I didn't take gift with Mr because if km like ing in truck I can't take it snd I certainly can't hook it up in parents house.  She going to say we are over.  I don't understand this.  This all started over my mother again but why does. My mother have to be brought up in evrrything...

I'm so confused.  Thick in fog.  I tried to just be empathetic and kind and go from hated to invited home to stunned and all over. I don't know what to feel or do and when because it's like a Cia mental torture  but she is being tortured

Is there a room you can go to in your house where you can close and lock the door to be alone?

What was happening while you were being followed... .was she talking to you... .were you talking to her?

Hang in there!  We can see you are putting out a tremendous amount of effort.  I hope that we are able to help focus some of that effort.

 

He can't Hippa (http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/) laws. You can ask your therapist to call her therapist.


HH can you answer this?

I am coming late to the discussion but did want to comment on this. It is quite normal for couples to share emails, computers, etc. My husband and I have done it for years.

I don't see the email/password thing as a boundary issue. I see it as a safety issue. During one of the worst times in my relationship with my husband, he got into my emails and texts and would flip out over what he found. I wasn't hiding anything but he would totally flip out. He was grasping at straws. I changed all of my passwords and locked him out of my accounts because I couldn't trust him to not flip out over what he found. If he found something he didn't like, he was welcome to ask me about it. Instead of asking me about in a rational manner, he would flip out and rage and I wouldn't have a clue as to what was going on until much, much later. Something he saw triggered him and I had no friggin' idea. We have gotten past that stage and are back to keeping our accounts logged in. But, in order for that to happen, both of us had to feel safe (emotionally and physically).

To put the password issue under the microscope and make it into a boundary issue is missing the bigger picture, which is that neither HH or his wife feel safe in the relationship.

The same thing goes for transparency. I don't hide things from my husband. However, when we were going through some of our worst times, I did start hiding things and keeping things to myself to avoid having to deal with his rages and unreasonableness. It was a protection mechanism. Now that he has a sponsor and is working on his side of things, I am not afraid to be transparent once again. It has taken a lot of time to get to that point and it is a work in progress. Without feeling safe, one cannot even think of building trust or being transparent. In Maslow's hierarchy, safety comes before friends, family, intimacy, and all that. If a person is not safe, then it becomes impossible to even think of the other stuff. The brain goes into survival mode.

The doctor can certainly and always responds when I am told to her her my wife won't be there in therapy.  I'm not asking for her to say anything about my wife.  She also was seeing us jointly for awhile until my wife said she felt like doc was againdt her.  I emailes doc if it would bebhelpful again to see us together or if separate.  I stated it my be a conflict and I understand but the doc never responded which she could have done and said it eouod have been a cobflict.

I went back and my wife started by stating it's not a legal contract but it read like one about a what she got and didn't get.  She stated that the comment in son not wanted to go to rodeo was unforgivable but was for most part calm and expressive and quite fair at some points.  I stated thst this was alot to process and I'm not mentally there at this time and I needed time to think.  Thst is when things went down hill.  She was still calm but kept pressuring me.  It was like an interrogstor.  She expressed herself more and started to push buttons moderately and bringing up other stuff.  I stated thst I need time to think and I am not sure what to say.  I stated I hear how she feels but I might feel differently.  She wanted to know but I said it was kot your because usually if I express myself it exacerbates things and thst is not what I want.  She kept up thr pressure so I went to leave.  She refused to let me leave.  I begged her to get away from my car and she would not.  I felt like an interogstion and demanded to sign a confession.  I was calling for lawyer ie... space and she would not give it.  She threatened some.  I starred to panic which made me look worse.  She started with ultimatum... finally I crawled out door she wasn't blocking and she let me go... . I tried to walk away.  I tried to listen and not react snd ask for time to think...  she wouldn't allow it. I feel like I'm a problem as she said I have been out of control for days and I have been distraught some but it's usually in reaction to her.

I have told my therapist everything.  He is concerned and unsure why I stay in this... I'm going more and more to him weekly.   And on the phone too.  I told him about harming myself few weeks back and if I was a danger.   I have not talked to crisis center because I have no plans to hurt myself.   It will make things worse for my wife and kids and everyone else.  I'm held hostage in life you might say.

I didn't know therapists can talk so I might do that. Although my wife says her disparage my therapist.  Still that wouldn't make sense.

Why can't my wife not try and control everything...  it's not my fault I didn't m ow what all the gift she got me could do.  :)oes she not remember throwing it at me or throwing gifts I get her at me and demanding they be taken back and they are bad?  Then she starts in... .

It doesn't matter.  My wife wants me isolated.  Maybe I should be isolated from my mom since wife says I can't stand up to her but I don't see anything my mother bullies me into like my wife.  Mother says always to side with my wife.  I avoid my Kotter anyways cause she has mental issues of her own.  Wife hats smy other work too before this too...

She keeps saying how her doc says she is healthy and doing things healthy and I am not but there is so much evidence showing she can't even function while outside of my wife and i... I do well

Buying her gifts is good.  She can't look back and say you didn't get her anything.  She will criticize to make herself feel better.

I am concerned about her false claims about you.  All she has to do is call the cops and you will be barred from the house and need a lawyer.  Your posts on this board aren't going to serve as any documentation.  You need to start using a tape recorder and documenting.

If she has done things that are a danger to herself, and you can prove it, you can talk to the local hosp psych place and see if they will come get her, maybe?  Or talk to her and see if she wants to go?

I think it's important to answer those questions above - has your T talked to her T?  Have you taliked to the crisis center?  This goes on every day and someone is going to get more hurt than just a toenail.  :)o you think that will be a lot better than what happens now?  WHat if a kid gets hit by a car or falls down stairs or hurts himself?

I was scared to get anyone involved when I was married because I knew my H would see it as a betrayal.  But eventually things came to a head anyway.  

You can document her running you over with the police without them doing anything about it.  Just in case anything comes up.  They might even have some ideas for you.

I saw a post of yours from a week ago in which you said you wish something happened - like, if you got committed or something.  I kinow you are hoping fate will somehow save you.  But it may just make things worse if someone gets hurt or hospitalized.  It'd be better if someone takes control of the situation.

And no, it was not wrong, what you said.  But I think the less said about triggery issues (like your mom), the better.  Practice saying I don't want to talk about that now.

"I have told my therapist everything.  He is concerned and unsure why I stay in this... I'm going more and more to him weekly."

You should ask him to let the other T know how bad your wife is.  Can the other T ask your wife to limit calls to work, etc? 

"I told him about harming myself few weeks back and if I was a danger.   I have not talked to crisis center because I have no plans to hurt myself."

But your family is in crisis.  She is in crisis.  Someone may get hurt.  You almost did, with the car.  What happens next time - what are you going to say if a kid gets in the way of a car?  Or if your wife hurts herself?

You think you can control this situation.  There's too much mental iillness involved. Someone outside needs to help.

"It will make things worse for my wife and kids and everyone else.  I'm held hostage in life you might say."

Sort of.  But maybe not.

Bit more clear now that I am away from her.  This I think is something that hits home.  Safety... . this might be the whole source.  When I am around her I don't feel safe at all.  I feel like a lion tamer.  I love the lion, the lion lives me, but at any point the lion could attack and overpower me unless I'm on guard at all times.  Problem is this guard makes me hyper sensitive and fearful of any minute detail with my wife which is not good for growing as it makes her feel guilty.  At same time, it has been trained into me that I should be in guard cause anything could get me attacked be it something out of control.  Text from somebody she knows, illness in family, or kid messing up... .or the maybe 4 times in 12 years message from my mother.

She on other hand fears all these things and wants me to protect her which is an impossibility.  The sticky one is when it's somebody I deal with where she feels I should lay her boundaries as my own or I don't care.  Or simply seek vengeance which is not my nature.  I am quite forgiving.  

I detach so I don't screw up so she senses it as me not caring and she doesn't feel safe.  I'm detaching because she attacks me when I get close so I don't feel safe.  I see this dynamic but she wants to only hear her side unless she has a moment when she says she knows what she is doing but like being possessed reverts back quickly

 a
Your wife is in crisis. She can't take care of you. You have to take care of you.

Can you tell us more of what the therapists is saying as it related to domestic violence, suicidal ideation, and threats to involve the police. Have you spoken to your about options other than leaving her?

I'm trying to encourage you to stop reacting to her moods and start taking charge of your life... .there is an environment now where innocently, something really bad can happen. 



You have thousands of words here about your emotional struggles - which is okay, that's why were here - but you really need to put some of those words into examining things you can do to alleviate this crisis.

Hurthusband,

I find reading your thread completely overwhelming and I'm on the outside looking in.  Can you remove yourself for a few days?  Stay in a hotel, turn your phone off, get some rest and clear your head?

I feel like you have no space at all to process anything that is going on here.  It is like she is using psychological torture techniques on you or something.

I know you care about your wife and kids and your mother but when do you care about you?  You have the right to work in peace, you have the right to leave your house when you are being abused and you are being abused what will it take for you to do something to help yourself? 

You focus on them and changing them and appeasing them and satisfying them and making them happy... .you cannot change them, you can only change you and what you do.  They do nothing to help you to protect you.  Only you can protect you.  What is one thing that you can change right now today that would help you?

So many here have offered suggestions two of them are things you can do... .that you can control:

1) Turn off your phone at work (Have you ever tried talking with your boss about this?  Maybe he could help you out with boundaries at work)

2) Leave when she is abusive (if she blocks your car call the police)

Hurthusband you can do nothing for your wife and kids when you are a mess... .you must think about YOU!

We care, we can give advice, we can listen but only you can act. 

You are not going to be able to think clearly until you get to safety. That is what Skip and others are trying to help you understand. Get to safety!

I was in a really bad spot a year or two ago. I went to my dad and was very upset because things were in such a turmoil at home. He told me that I needed to get away for a while. He said that I needed to be gone for at least a week. I had all sorts of reasons why I couldn't do it. I didn't have the money. The kids would freak out without me. What about the bills and this and that and the other. My dad told me that none of that mattered. He sat me down and helped me find answers to all of my reasons for not being able to get away for a bit. Do you have somebody in real life that can sit down with you and help you come up with solutions so that you can get yourself to a place of safety long enough to think more clearly?

I would not be able to think straight or make any kind of decision about anything unless I got some space. Luckily for me, I was able to tell my husband, "My dad said blah, blah, blah" so he didn't argue. Is there any way that you can get your therapist or somebody else that your wife will listen to to tell her that you are going to take a week or two and spend some time somewhere else. I wasn't leaving my husband. I was simply taking some time to myself. When I left, I made sure that my husband had everything that he needed. I made sure that I had a back up plan in place in case my husband needed help with the kids. Taking that week away made a huge difference. It calmed my husband and I both down quite a bit. Things were still really tense but it helped diffuse things a little.

hard part is my wife trusts nobody in my life and i would venture and the only person in her life is her sister.

we do talk about separating but she doesnt keep up with no contact or asking me to come back or asking for help because i am literally all she has

she talked rationally about a separation today and had a 3 page work up on who gets what to the point that it was overwhelming and i need to think about it.  it really sounded more like a divorce decree such as me paying for everything until she got money which might be 3 to 12 months and me staying there or staying elsewhere but she had full control over basically what happens with kids... .

i did not want to agree with it right then and there because it sounded like a document that might be beneficial for me a year from now but in meantime still held me as a slave for an indefinite amount of time so i wanted space to think which she would not give

the odd part is she thinks i just want to sweep things under the rug.  honestly, the past is past... why not just concentrate on going forward.  why keep concentrating on other sin our lives.  i can say that everyone in my life will love her if they just see me at peace. she wants them to submit now though to her and me to submit which they will not do even though i have for most part

after thinking i told her i love her and i thank her for her thoughtfulness of her gift.  i did not take it cause really only place to live is my mothers and i dont think she wants anything over there from her... .but that also upsets her.  i told her i would love to take her out for vday and us to spend time together.  that i still find her smart, and enjoyable and sexy... that apparantly we both have fear though of each other which is hindering trust.  therapy would be needed jointly but maybe we are not at that point yet.  i would move into the room if she wants and we can live together but while i did not say this i do not think she can respect my space and need for space at times

that is what broke down a healthy conversation today... she expressed herself.  i wanted time to think and space to then express myself at more calm time since 1 hour before things were bad.  She just refused to give that.  I think that is fair to ask for.  I think she was good in what she asked but the implementation crossed a boundary and its frustrating to be cornered ...


i am sitting work office now typing this because forums are really hard to type on a phone.  i am not sure where to turn to for help. My therapist talking to hers is the one idea i think that might work.  I have invited her to talk to my therapist with me too.  She says she has lost how she feels for me... i dont know.  i am not arguing that with her.  she has no support system, and she hates my support system which is not the best anyways, but better than nothing i suppose.  It doesnt help that she has family members going into the hospital on deaths door each of past 3 months, she loses her job, she loses her friends, and she has all her things she prides herself on stolen from her.  She needs to go to a hospital i think.  I may too.  her doc obviously feels she does not but i dont see how.

I do understand the trauma of the facility she would be put into is the same one that her mother, father, and grandmother all got improper care in and left two dead ... .that is according to other hospitals even.  It would have to be traumatic staying there not only worrying about the care you are getting but the emotions that go there too

I suppose I am talking about helping her and I need to help myself...   Just concerned im the problem and presenting all of you a poor perspective that skews towards my benefit which i do not want to do.  I am also deep in fog here.

i just feel horrible going and saving myself to leave her to die.  I also dont want to be an indentured servant.  I am being indecisive which is even worse.  I think a few days from her at my mothers who is not there for next two weeks would be good.  i woudl love to still take her out to valentines day

here is a weird part.  her sister knows nothing of what is going on apparently.  Nobody does.  She is just bottling it all up.  She is using me not only as the source of her problems but also as her support.  It is very strange having to be a supportive person in a situation where i am what she needs support with.  I seem to be supportive as the person she wants support from in her eyes but i am not supportive as a husband.  That make sense?

It is a trap! Don't do it. I know exactly what you are describing. I was in a similar situation at one point. I was expected to be my husband's support person and accountability partner but there was nobody there for me. I was floundering. When I would try to step away from being the support person, I felt like I was being pulled back in.

When I went to my dad, he had NO idea of what had been going on. I kept most of our problems pretty quiet for a really long time. From the outside, I am sure that people thought I was the problem because I was being a bit crazy and erratic. What people didn't see or hear was the fact that my husband would rage at me. He would make all kinds of remarks about knowing how to fix everything. He would go to the bathroom and get his straight razor or go to leave in the car. I was supposed to do everything for him but there was nobody for me. I have opened up and told people about our problems. I have had a couple of talks with his mother. I have tried to pose it as, "I love your son but I am really concerned about him." I gave here a watered down version of what was going on but nonetheless I made her aware of it. Is it possible to get her sister aside and tell her that you are concerned for your wife? Stop protecting her. Let people in her life know that she is struggling. You can tell them without making her out to be the bad guy. She has dealt with the loss of her parents, the loss of a job, and is falling apart. It is understandable. Can you phrase it as she needs more support than you can give her right now?

When I read your posts, I can hear all of the excuses that I have made at different times. You need to take care of YOU and your wife needs to find somebody other than you to support her emotionally. The level of support that she is wanting from you is not realistic. I know how difficult it is to back off from being the support person for her. Continuing with this dynamic is not good for anybody involved. Stop worrying about whether you are the problem or if she is the problem. It doesn't matter. BOTH of you are in crisis and need help.

her sister is not healthy that way

when they went to Europe together, her sister was so mean with telling them her father who had heart problems just needed to tough out the walking.  She would yell at my wife constantly to point my wife asked me to fly her home before it was over.  When i went to her sister when my wife wanted a suicide pact and hit and kicked me, her sister ignored it and did nothing.  In fact, my wife said that later on she told my wife that i knew what i was signing up for and just needed to man up

her sister also told me couple of weeks ago most people just work 5 days a week and 8 to 5 so i just need to figure out something else job wise cause i worked 47 hours 6 days a week.

she went with my wife to my wife therapist and my wife said things went poorly that she was angry and therapist didnt think she was ready for a joint therapy...

i so i dont think i can trust her. plus i gotta be careful not to turn her against wife and side with me since thats her only support left

one thing i keep saying to keep me sane is despite my family being whacky... i have no problems with anyone else in my life... ever even. maybe thats cause i am a pushover... i dont know. 

This is NOT the time to even think about much less agree to something like this.  Do not discuss divisions of assets or custody while your family is in crisis.  You are not thinking clearly and you are not thinking in terms of YOUR best interests right now.

that is exactly what i thought... she said it was not a divorce or anything like that, but that is why i asked to think about it and leave but she did not want to let me without a response which was panicking me

If it's "not like a divorce or anyting" then don't sign it.  Why should you?  What if you ask her to sign a document saying you get 50 percent of time with the kids? 

You have a habit of saying yes to whatever she wants and it gets you into a deeper hole and then you are in an even worse place to stop the madness. 

She will have you give her all your money, then if she makes a legal move or accusation, you will have no money to fight her and you may wind up in handcuffs, or never able to see the kids again.

Many dads here have ended up in similar situations because they were too trusting.  Right now, you have not agreed to anything.  Don't make a mistake!  You will regret it.

It is okay to say you need a long time to think of your answer to a question, even if she keeps asking you teh same question 15 times.  Give her the same answer til she stops.  That is a common BPD thing for them to do these "circular arguments" where they ask something again and again.

You agreed to buy her a new car, computer, rescue her from Europe, etc., etc.  Those agreements birng temporary relief.  Then something else happens.  You never know what emergency you may have tomorrow.  Don't let her mainpulate you.  SHe is ill but still capable of doing that.

well 3 hours ago i wrote her an email stated that i had thought things over and while i am not agreeing to everything lets just make peace.  obviously fear is hindering our communication.  so i can move into another room as she proposed.  i told her i did love her and how she is smart and talented and i am still very attracted to her and love her.  how i would love to take her out this weekend, but we can operate in space for awhile. 

all of this and no response for 3.5 hours

now she says how dare i not follow up nor be worried about her.  how i left her like a madman there and i should have continued to call and text after that message if i cared.  i thought she wanted space is why she didnt respond to me even.  i dont want to harrass her...

she says i can sleep on couch tonight and she will file for divorce tomorrow

how am i supposed to know when to pursue her and when to give her space?  there is no pattern of behavior to learn her reaction or what she wants.  its just the opposite of what i do. 

and i am sitting her questioning whether i should have kept calling or i should do what all she says or how far i should meet her in the middle or all sorts of things.  blaming myself...

worrying in confusing everyone.  i am sure she is sick to a degree but i am too and how much is my fault.  is it just boundaries?

If you chase her crisis or her opinion, you will be stuck where you are.

Her reacting in the opposite way is the push-pull dynamic. And you are participating by changing what you want based on her latest reaction.

Work out what you want for yourself, and stop reacting to her. That is the only way you will find peace, whether working on your marriage or ending it.

HH, your chain of messages has pretty much been like this:

HH: She asked me for X, so I did it and she got mad anyway.

Group: Stop reacting to and talking to her for a while. You can't win no matter what you do.

HH: So she called again and yelled and I did what she wanted and she got mad anyway.

Group: Stop reacting to and talking to her for a while.

HH... .you are doing the same thing over and over, and she will always find something wrong.  You are asking a logical question - how are you supposed to know what she wants? You can't, because she's mentally ill.

You are going to end up giving up something ridiculous, like money or the kids or something.  Please stop responding to her demands.

And you keep saying you are doing something wrong.  You are doing nothing wrong.  You are trying to control someone's mental illness.  You think if you tap dance enough, things will get better.  It seems that they won't unless something different happens, someone intervenes or you just step away a bit.

As for her filing for divorce, it's an empty threat. Don't listen. She has no interest in doing that. She'd give up the person who does everything for her.

Stop responding to her every demand.  Try to take a day off from her and get some peace.  You can tell her you both need a breather for a day, and then stick to it.

Tomorrow is a workday. Are you going to answer her million phone calls and get sucked into an even worse fight, or are you going to let them go to voicemail?  Don't let yourself be abused. You can send another email saying you love her, you hope she has a good day, you both need some time today to focus on your own stuff, etc.

"You have a habit of saying yes to whatever she wants and it gets you into a deeper hole and then you are in an even worse place to stop the madness. "



HH, I don't have advice but reading your posts reminds me so much of my father. My mother (wBPD) ruled all of our lives. In order to get a brief moment of peace, my father gave in to whatever she wanted. He did get a moment of peace but it didn't last long. I see where he felt he had to do this- he needed to work and was responsible for supporting us. He would enlist us kids to keep mom happy so that he could do this.

Over the years, it became habit, even if mom's demands were unrealistic or unreasonable. We were her virtual slaves. If I went out with dad alone, once we had cell phones, she would call him every 5-10 minutes to see where he was. It was so much a habit that if she didn't call, he'd call to check in. It was ridiculous- my father could not even spend a day with his adult daughter without checking in with her. Dad wasn't "allowed" to give me much money for college, because she would get angry.

The results of all this affected the kids. I grew up to be so co-dependent that I couldn't say no to people and was co-dependent in my relationships. I don't blame my dad, or my mom for that matter. She was sick. He loved her and had few resources such as this board. I know that their relationship was good at times as well.

However, this constant giving in didn't solve anything. I hope you will find the stregnths to do something differently, and also for your children's sake.

the hard part is that I do know I am ill too.  I am working on it, but she says I am not.  Am I healthy enough to judge that just as I do not know she is healthy enough to judge herself?

The big thing she keeps harping on is the situation with Rodeo tickets.  My mother, the day after the whole threat from her to my wife about leaving me alone or else, heard I was going to be taking my son for Saturday evening.  My mother had box seats to the Rodeo and offered them to me since she is not into that sort of thing.  I had told my wife because I thought this was a kind gesture.  My wife was upset she just offered my son and I, but my mother did not think I was even home to take my wife.  Anyways, I knew my son would probably not want to go and my wife said there is no way my son is allowed to take anything from my mother after the threat she made and it was rude for her not to offer more tickets.  So Saturday, my mother asked me if I wanted the tickets, and I stated that my son said he was thankful for the offer, but he was not really into the rodeo.  I thought this was polite because it was a kind gesture and it did not make anyone seem rude

My wife is furious because she says I lied about my son.  My son did not know anything about this.  She says I should have drawn a boundary and told my mother "i cannot take these tickets because you threatened my wife and as a result there will be no contact nor conversation about my family with you"

Was I wrong on that?  Did i let my mother cross a boundary or was i just doing the polite thing and maintaining peace rather than needless arguing and pain?

Anyways, sitting here today... .she has upper hand.  She got me a nice gift for me.  I cannot say i really do not want it because she put alot into it and I am thankful for that and that is all that really matters to me.  The problem is that she has that over my head.  She hated my gift and told me to return.  She does not want anything from my, but at same time if i get nothing that is worse.  I know she would like to stay at a nice hotel etc for VDAy, but she will not even talk to me now so do I make plans and shell out $350 or more on a hotel and not even go?  Then I am also out a gift to her which is doubly bad.  It is a catch 22

Or I just ignore everything and say I am not a bad person while she suffers and implodes.  Not run the circle, but its also plain mean not to here.  All so confusing.  Hardest part is she does not understand how much I do care. 

1.  Many of us have some mental illness.  To me, you sound quite rational every time you post.  I think you know she is almost always in the wrong but you love her and want justification to keep giving in, as it's easier.  It's clear that you are almost always right and you are doing your best for her.  Please stop blaming yourself.  The only place where I see your judgment is off is that you keep doing what she asks and letting her call and fight with you.

2.  The fact that you have to pay $350 for a hotel is sad.  I'd be happy if someone took me to McDonald's for V-Day - it's the thought and effort that counts.  You can always make sure it's a chain hotel and cancel it that day if you're concerned.  But you know that no matter what you do, she'll find a way to criticize so she can have the upper hand.  You ordered her nice shoes and she made you feel like crap about it.  It's the thought that counts.  I'm sure you could come up with lots of ways to complain about her gift to you too if you were as dysregulated as she was.  Gifts with my ex caused trauma too - mine to him were never the right kind, or nice enough.  Gifts are supposed to be joyful, not a thing to cause pain.  What did you originally plan to get her?  Can you find her something less expensive, or just say you'll pay for dinner and she can choose the place that night and let you know, and not do anything you can't take back?  If you reserve a hotel, maybe do it in a way so that you can cancel that day and get your money back.

All of these are just little ways to maintain peace for another day until disaster happens.  

**She put you and herself in danger with the car.**  You seem to not want to acknowledge things like that.  You really think it won't happen again? 

If I were your therapist I'd call her therapist and say she's a danger to herself and others, this situation is out of control, she needs to be committed to a hospital until she is really stablizied on the right meds.  HH, think what a relief that would be!  Maybe she'd come out of there much better.  Maybe she'd even agree - who knows?  Or at least your T could talk some sense into her T and find a solution.

Clearly she needs you - to help her and the kids.  So your T's should be working to make this situation tolerable instead of on the way toward exploding.

Someone may get hurt otherwise.  Then Valentine's Day and other nonsense really wouldn't matter, would it?

As for the rodeo thing, you were polite.  Your wife wanted something to complain about.  You are telling her way too much information.  Keep discussions to a minimum and she'll have less to attack.

Yes HH you absolutely are in a Catch 22 situation. It has another name a double bind, "Go away I hate you, come back I need you." Simultaneous requests that negate each other. You are the 'emotional fall-guy' in this ongoing abusive cycle.

As you try to keep your wife happy you are placed in a lose- lose position over and over again. You know this, I can hear you know this.

You can break this cycle, but there are risks associated with all change.

I wonder if the risks are what keep you stuck in the cycle. The risks of course are that the marriage might fail. This is a lot to lose when you have children also. I can hear how much you love your family. So by continuing as you are at least this is what you know, it is a pattern of behaving and responding that you are now very familiar with, you know this script off by heart.

So if for now the way you are going to respond remains the same can you think about the questions below as a way of highlighting any changes that may have taken place.

Does the situation with your wife feel as though it is decreasing in intensity?

Are her responses becoming easier to predict?

Have your stress levels reduced any as this has continued?

Are you able to manage your stress a bit better given you know how your wife is likely to respond?

What's the most important thing you have realised throughout this difficult time?

all I can say on this hh is it all sounds very familiar. You get caught between the two most significant females in your life pushing and pulling at you. You want to please both but end up with them both upset... .its very frustrating to be in this situation... .I feel for you man.

Thank you HH for your responses, so now you have a coherent timeline to present to a Crisis Team, or your family doctor or to discuss with your therapist by way of getting comprehensive advice on how you need to proceed for you and your family.

Your family doctor or therapist or Crisis Team have a duty of care to act in a way that helps minimise risks, to you, your wife and your family.

Your T is someone that knows you so maybe ask him a direct question about what to do. It can't be helpful to hear someone say 'well I'm surprised you haven't left her' ask him to be specific. Get him to contact a Crisis Centre on your behalf, there is absolutely no reason why he would not be able to do this if he is aware of how desperate you have been feeling recently. If you can push him to use his connections and to get you clear advice on how to progress with this it might help you feel less alone out there with all of this.

Do you have a T booked for this week?

Is this something you would feel able to do?

She is not healthy enough to judge herself. In fact, one of the earmarks of BPD is self loathing and judging themselves... .they always paint themselves black.

A good mental image is a duck with oil on their feathers. The bird will try to shake off the black... .but they are still covered. For a pwBPD, bad feelings about themselves is the oil and they try to 'shake it off' unto others around them.

The logic of BPD goes something like this:

I like grapes. Person X does not like grapes. Person X must not like me because I like grapes. Furthermore, there must be something wrong with me if I like grapes and Person X doesn't. Well... .there can't be anything wrong with me... .so something is wrong with Person X. Person X is a jerk because they do not like grapes. I should convince Person X grapes are the best.

Yes... .it's that ridiculous for nons... .but for pwBPD... .that is the daily news feed in their heads.

With that being said, let's look at the rest of your situation.

You definitely have some pulling between your mom and wife gong on. You have to stop that, and stop letting them do that. They are using you to piss the other off. It is not fair to you.

It was a kind gesture from your mom... .but it was also most likely a slight to your wife. Did your mom only have 2 tickets? Does your wife like the rodeo? Would she have liked to gone?

If you knew your son would probably not like to go, the best thing would have been to say thanks but no thanks to mom, and not even mention it to your wife.

When you are dealing with pwBPD, HOW you say things is more important than anything. I do not condone lying to your spouse... .but there are ways to communicate what's going on without triggering them. There are things I don't discuss with my H because he will not respond well... .such as this board. If he asks me directly... .I will not lie.

However, if I went and told him... .BOOM Dysregulation City!

YES:  "Your family doctor or therapist or Crisis Team have a duty of care to act in a way that helps minimise risks, to you, your wife and your family.

Your T is someone that knows you so maybe ask him a direct question about what to do."

His telling you to leave her isn't helpful.  You're not leaving her.  So what can you do now that she's hurting everyone?

*mod*

The thread has reached it's post limit and is now locked. You are welcome with opening a new thread with a similar topic for discussion. Thanks.