BPDFamily.com

Hi all,

I have posted a while ago on the "staying" board with some background of my story. Since my question is of a general nature, it will not be necessary to share a long story with you.  As you can see, I am posting now on the "leaving" board, and the reason is that I have been bouncing between the two back and forth as I really don't know what to do. Sometimes I am in a relatively healthy mental state so I go to the staying one, and other times I am a mess so I come here. But from what I have been reading I felt that we all tend to have this bitterness towards our BPD loved ones, and we certainly are trapped in the victim role.  If we are mentally healthy and understand our partner, why we are doing the blaming and finger pointing if our partner is mentally ill?  I doubt they are capable of understanding what they are doing and its impact on the people around you.  I would be interested in your intake on this.  Thanks.

Because they are still responsible for how they treat us. But you are right, we also have to look at ourselves, and I think most of us are anything BUT mentally healthy. What makes us stay with someone that needs a parent instead of a lover?

Hi I agree the bitterness is not a good thing to feel towards anyone I've struggled hard w this and have prayed on a daily basis to try to forgive. I help others to get out of myself and try to read my spiritual books to let go of the anger ... .The thing is years of someone cussing harmful words , hitting , never finding resolve , blaming everything on you , cussing more, telling you many negative things , telling others and getting people to gang up in u, ruining a Christmas and b/u w u and the kids and a family , I can go on and on ... .Can make anyone feel like they are worthless and rejected. I mean my ex even went to the extent of telling me No one loves me not even your son. Bitterness and sweeteness... .I have been recovering I taste some sweetness in my change in myself. I'm not all she said that's called projection and abuse . No apology either for all . So moving into more light is my path . But bitterness is hurt really so it's a process ... .We learn alot here if you don't stay in the problem

Yeah it is important to not keep hanging in the bitterness. You have to let it go someday, it is not healthy.

Hello white Lily. You have a good question. A lot of members find us after their relationship ends, angry and hurting and they are trying to make sense of BPD behaviors prior to knowing about the existence of BPD itself. Certainly not understanding the depth of the disorder.

The leaving board is for members who are detaching emotionally, anger is a step in the detachment process. It's all part of grieving.

Victim mentality has to be recognized before one can work to make healthy changes. Our role in these relationships, as we all play a role, is often unknown to newer members.

Mental health and mental illness are relative terms, and one area of growth for us is looking at our own "health", since mentally healthy people would not have ignored all the red flags and gotten as deeply enmeshed with a "mentally ill" person as many of us did.  Plus, the traits of the disorder are on a continuum with most of us exhibiting some of them at least some of the time, and once we hang out with someone who exhibits a lot of them a lot of the time, we can "inherit" those traits, at least for a time, along with reactions to abuse including PTSD or whatever.  So sometimes it's helpful to broaden our definitions of "healthy" and "ill".

Anyway.  Blaming and finger pointing have somewhat negative connotations, but even though someone is "mentally ill", they are still responsible for their actions, and holding someone accountable for those actions is appropriate.  And then there's anger, a normal, healthy response to abuse and disrespect, and we can end up very angry once these relationships end, and stoop to the blaming and finger pointing as a purging as we heal.  With time we may develop a more realistic, balanced view of our own and our exes "mental health", but it takes what it takes.  Take care of you!

Thanks, fromheeltoheal, that was excellent. We are all in the grieving process. We are all at different stages and one of those is anger. We loved a person with a mental illness. Most of us did not know there was such an illness. Living with a person with borderline personality disorder was new to us. We were trying to make the relationship work having no idea what type of person or issues we had in front of us.

We thought love would work it's way through. We though our if we just keep trying all would be ok. Our love would grow. We were 100% wrong. Instead we were mentally and some physically abused. Our relationships continued downhill instead of progressing and moving forward. We were raged at during times of peace for no reason. ALL OF THIS TAKES A TOLL ON US.

The leaving board is to grow and heal from what we have all experienced. It is here for support to share our stories with the hopes of having learned and moving on to a healthier relationship.

I do not consider myself bitter or uncompassionate toward his illness.

Thank you so much well said! I never like to point the finger because I have 3 pointing back at me. I need to share my crazy and find my resolve. I have held in my stuff to preserve my past r/s and this forum has helped so much in first off gaining insight , finding common ground, and also in getting empathy a quality I never received in my past r/s. I know I'm accountable for my actions and I believe when we do deal w a mentally ill person we must learn how to find peace in ourselves during the aftermath that its thier stuff and we can't fix it. Most of us and I only speak for myself became caretakers to this abuse and loved these sick people flawed and all. And then we became sick too because we are human and we can't really fix thier demons they have in them. They have to find their accountability too .

I am not bitter or a victim. Honestly I'm scared of my ex. She hurts me when I deal w her. I need to keep myself and my daughter from here on out safe from any more abuse. In this I pray for my ex for ALL happiness. I had seen and gone through enough . Do I still feel a attachment I do. These r/s have a certain hold. It's a work in progress .

Maybe because I only deal with her 6 months, I am not too horribly bitter. I think my friends are more pissed at how she treated me than I am but they don't or simply refuse to understand where she is mentally. Towards the end of our relationship, when she was almost gone, she went on a two week long drinking bender - happy hours, parties, etc. That was pretty out of character for her (or at least the character I knew) I knew she went out one night so the next day I jokingly text'd her and asked how bad her head hurt. And she replied without smilies or anything - "My whole life hurts" I think that is punishment enough. Because one day I will get over her and this whole thing and my life will be alright. Hers, not so much.

Yes, white-lily, what is offered on the leaving board is empathy. We have all been through enough. We have been devalued, yelled at, hit, pushed/pulled, painted black, humiliated, dumped, dragged through hell and back. Some of us even with our children.

In my opinion the very last thing we need as we continue to learn, grow and heal is to be shamed and judged.

Thank you all for your wonderful insights.  It is becoming clearer to me that most people here are trying to heal up, so the bitterness, anger and all this stuff is part of the healing process. You have made a great contributions, which I am highlighting them here, so please keep your insights coming. Personally, positive reflections like yours will help me heal up. I don't think I can drag the negative anymore, it is just making me sick.

“What makes us stay with someone that needs a parent instead of a lover?”

“We learn a lot here if you don't stay in the problem”

“Victim mentality has to be recognized before one can work to make healthy changes”

“One area of growth for us is looking at our own "health", since mentally healthy people would not have ignored all the red flags and gotten as deeply enmeshed with a "mentally ill" person as many of us did”

“We are all in the grieving process. We are all at different stages and one of those is anger. We loved a person with a mental illness. Most of us did not know there was such an illness.”

“Because one day I will get over her and this whole thing and my life will be alright. Hers, not so much.”

“what is offered on the leaving board is empathy. We have all been through enough.”

You got it 

I think theres a number of reasons.

1 Human nature. If someone hurts us we want to hurt them.

2 we dont want to point the finger at ourselves for allowing it to happen.

3 We forget they are mentally ill as there behaviour isnt always crazy. We swing between being certain they are ill and not being sure they are.

Keep in mind, many of us have been dealing with hurtful behaviors for YEARS - without the understanding that mental illness was involved. Many of twisted ourselves inside out while trying to make the r/s work - only to have the final blow be so devastating that there was no way to remain.

So I think that some of the victimization / anger you see (and that I've contributed) to these boards is borne of a tremendous amount of pain - a level of pain that most of us have never experienced before.  Over time, I think the realization that our SO's were mentally ill sinks in, and the pain and anger lessens as we begin to process through the experience.  But it can take months to get there.

The other day I had a full five minutes of radical acceptance.  Of really seeing, without anger or victimization, that my ex is who she is, not who I want her to be. That perhaps I could have it in me to "love her" from afar, as the terribly damaged person she is, and not take what she did personally.  I really felt it, for about five minutes.  It was truly liberating. There was no more pain, no more anger... .and I really felt for her in her illness, without any desire to try to 'save her.'

But I've lost it again... .my own wishes, hopes, dreams sometimes creep back in and I feel hurt, abandoned, unloved... .that's where the "victimization" comes in.  After all, there were two people in the r/s - and I'm still dealing with the loss of someone whom I loved very much, and who hurt me very badly.  It takes time to recover from that.

I too have seconds of clarity. I think, I need to forgive him, he needs to be happy, he is ill and I need to deal with being alone. Then it all comes back at me like a wave of emotion and I feel the pain... .time is what it will take. No quick pill... .

These moments of clarity, while short, are very important in the healing process. The objective is to prolong them so we are at peace with ourselves, specifically forgiving ourselves from ignoring the red-flag, and of course at peace with our partners. I always thought there must be something bigger lining up for us going this traumatic experience, but it is always easier said than done.  To accept that we went through all this to grow! If you believe in Karma, I surely hope this will be the end of the karmic cycle of emotional destruction for all of us.

My goal is detached compassion - which is exactly what I felt for those 5 minutes.  You bet I'm working towards that on a more permanent basis!

Thanks I'm going to try the 5 minutes of detach w compassion. Good stuff

I would be careful about generalizing too much.  This is probably not the best post to point it out in, but it somewhat bothers me when folks use unqualified plural pronouns (we, etc).  I say this because I don't like when people speak for me or include me in their self assessments and it might not be helping thought processes. I'm reticent to bring this up because it is not wholehearted support of what you said.   People come here for support, but I also like someone to tell me what they honestly think but in a nice way.

Just because someone is still mad when they think of it or are reminded does not make them a victim.  The victim/non-victim binary is a bit too crisp.  An extreme example, a father still bristles 20 years later and expresses angry words toward a drunk driver that killed his daughter.  Is he still in a victim mindset because of this?  I would not think they were victims and sometimes having some bitterness is unavoidable.  I think it is the degrees and how it affects you.  I am not the type that thinks it is natural or even desirable to totally forgive someone for doing something like killing your child.  Of course, we deal with a lesser hurt, usually, but I point out the extremes to clarify.  Humans are animals.  I will not attempt to twist what every part of my more primitive brain parts suggest.  It is stressful and unnatural for me.

So why do I still have bitterness toward a nut job?  For me, it is partly natural.  Let's say an inanimate object hurt me.  I could still personalize it a bit and feel "mad" at a car let's say.  It is hardwired into us to see intention in nature, even where there obviously is none.  That is where that emotion can come from, I think.  Also, if the ill person was just totally out of it and really could not make decisions, then it would be easier.  But here you have someone that can drive a car, hold down a tough job, and seems to make choices all the time.  And the reality is that they could have gotten treatment or made better choices.  And they did not.

This partially gets into thoughts around free will.  Does the illness remove free will or so change it that it is not free will?  Can we have free will at all, any of us?  This might sound abstract, but I think is at the heart of all this.  My answer is: what most philosophers say about free will and how they frame it is silly.  The person with BPD is their body (both brain and non-brain structure and function) in a very, very real sense.  If your brain makes a decision that causes you to hurt someone, then YOU did it because your brain is a big part of what "you" is.  Now, start with a super functioning human and how much you hold them responsible for what they do and so how much bitterness they can engender by wrong deeds.  Have them do an action, evaluate it on "bitterness" scale.  Now, take a small "slice" off their functionality, re-evaluate.  At some point we pass from "can hold them responsible" to "cannot".  Despite their being a gradient in mental functioning there are still useful categories (competent and incompetent perhaps), just as "bald" and "not bald" are useful terms despite baldness being accomplished 1 hair lost at a time (see continuum or bald man fallacy).

I feel that my ex with BPD falls in the "competent" category more than the "incompetent" category.  She could have gotten therapy.  She did not lie all the time, so she can refrain from it.  She treats her friends better than me.  Therefore, she is a decision making, moral agent in my eyes.  Just as Ted Bundy (with antisocial PD most likely) is not let off the hook for what he did.

Funny thing is that I didn't "try" - it just washed over me.

Not to say that I haven't been working on my healing... .I have.

It sort of reminded me of the day that I realized my parents were just people. Just two human beings that happened to give birth to me.  Not special, just human, with needs and flaws and the whole nine yards. That day I felt my eyes open, and I looked at them in a way that I had never experienced before.

I felt that with my ex for those 5 minutes... .I think because (for whatever reason) I detached her life from mine - and really just thought about her, in her totality - good and bad - without thinking about her in relation to my life and everything that happened in our relationship.

It was freeing.

There is a difference between being a victim and a 'victim mentality' or 'victim role'... .many of us ARE victims. Many of us have been abused. None of us asked to be abused. Recognising this doesn't put us in a 'victim role'. It means we are getting real, acknowledging what we've been through and working towards healing.

Also, BPD is a personality disorder. It doesn't exempt people from being responsible for their actions. Yes we can gain compassion for their experience but it doesn't mean they are excused from the abuse they inflicted on us. And since most will not ever show any accountability, we are left with unanswered questions and a lot of anger. I think this is very reasonable.

The intention was certainly not to generalize, but I found that most people, including myself, are very sad, angry, wounded and all this. We want to share our stories and experiences and support each other, which is extremely helpful, but where do we go from here? How do we get out of the cycle of pain? Of course a pwPBD should be responsible for his/her actions, but to a what degree given their illness? Without empathy, moments of compassion or clarity, letting go of the victim mentality, the healing process would be challenging.

I asked myself the same thing about a month ago. I went into great recovery doing all the right things. Meditating praying being in my feelings. And it can't be FORCED.

Time and change In ones thinking. If we could all turn this off and say get no more victim and lets forgive now. It would be a empty forum here. Time and letting each and every individual here process at there pace. I guess it's like faith without works is dead. You have to put in some work and changes... .

By focusing on your own needs.  That can be called selfish, but focusing on yourself is mandatory; if we don't take care of ourselves first we have nothing to give those we choose to give to.  Think about the flight attendant's announcement on an airplane: "in case of emergency put your oxygen mask on first and then take care of your children and others."  There's a reason for that.  And then, depending on the details of the relationship, if we were abused, disrespected, devalued, common around here, a lot of emotions that were repressed or denied are going to come up, and the only way out is through; no going around, over or bouncing off those emotions, we need to go through them and feel them all the way.  There's sunshine on the other side.  And once we do that we may end up having some compassion for our exes, I do for mine because her life is a living hell and she can't fix it, but that only comes about by taking care of ourselves first.


The entire degree, which can be the good news.  Just like an alcoholic needs to hit bottom before they're open to getting help, if a borderline feels enough pain they may seek the right kind of help.  There is no cure for BPD but there are therapies that make life a lot more manageable.

Human relationships are complex, and I like simple.  What if there are two kinds of people, the ones who bring us up and the ones who bring us down.  Then the way to enrich our lives is to remove the folks who bring us down and add ones who bring us up; which side of that fence is your ex on?

Thank you for taking my post in the spirit in which it was intended.

I think this varies based upon the case.  My ex was currently a high functioning BPD and she had some self awareness (she told me things like "I expect this relationship to not last because of my past record and my tendency to sabotage relationships" among other things).

The concept of level of responsibility is a weird one and for me hinges somewhat upon your ability to choose differently and accurately evaluate the impact of your choices on yourself and others.  I would be more guilty of lying if I lied than would my ex because I did not have the poor upbringing and maelstrom of unquenchable need compelling me to act.  Still, it is like drunk driving again, perhaps.  Let's say you get so drunk that you can't adequately judge whether you should drive and also can't drive.  Well, your first mistake was taking a drink where the opportunity to drive existed, if you know what alcohol does to you.  If the BPD is self aware at all and knows what they do in relationships somewhat, they are guilty at the very start for engaging in a relationship prior to getting treatment of some kind that helps the issue.  Getting into a relationship in their state is like drinking when drinking leads to driving while drunk.

As far as where I'm going from the pain.  I'm trying to accept it, move on, and know that I did not deserve it and can no longer be hurt by her directly.  And then work on myself and do things I enjoy.  My anger has drastically reduced over time.  But my case was minor (6 month relationship with enough but only average craziness), so perhaps I am getting over the anger and bitterness more quickly.

Wow. This is awesome! You nailed it.  As one struggling with resentment for how I was treated by this clearly mentally ill person your words are very helpful.

^ This.

I have my own struggles with mental illness (depression, anxiety disorders). And I'm certainly not a shining example of great mental health right now. I'm still grieving, detaching, processing through debris, working on my own stuff and addressing my core wounds, shaking off borderline and narc "fleas," dealing with abuse triggers, etc.

I was unhealthy in a different way before the relationship. And, while that became strikingly obvious to me shortly after the breakup, making the necessary changes is still slow work. It's a process.

We can't expect to be healthy, detached, and accepting in a short time. At the same time, we shouldn't stay mired in our misery and bitterness, either. There's a lot of middle ground there, and as long as we're steadily making progress towards healthiness and detachment, it's only human to expect some steps backwards, too.


|iiii

I certainly feel bad for my exBPDbf; I wouldn't wish the disorder on anyone. And I fully accept the part I played in this toxic dance - it takes two to make a dysfunctional relationship, after all.

But at the same time... .he really, really hurt me in a lot of very deep and sacred ways, and he knew what he was doing... .and sometimes I feel angry, negative, bitter, or hateful about that. I don't want to live in those feelings -- my ex is an example of someone who spends most of his time being angry, bitter, etc., and that is not how I inherently see the world. But I'm also letting myself feel them, because they remind me that I am worth more than the way I was treated, and that I need to do a better job protecting myself.

Because of all the GD lies she told me the last month we were together. She knew she was lying, I knew she was lying, and she treated me like absolute garbage. She became an absolute monster I no longer recognized.

Well said. Mine did all of the above and then replaced and abandoned me. YES, I was unhealthy and had a huge part in it all... .I actually was a victim... .But I went and got help and healed some and now know about BPD, etc... .And I now fluctuate in between the anger and bitterness and the peace of at least ACCEPTANCE of who this person that I lived with for five years "actually" is. (Don't know if I can ever truly forgive them). She is mentally ill. She still does all this whacky crap... .I have taken stock of my codependency and need to rescue, etc... .

I never engage, EVER, anymore. On any level. PERIOD. She has tried even though she married replacement... .etc... .on and on... .(nothing wrong with her in her world).

And... now I fluctuate between anger and empathy/acceptance. ... .so "I" am getting better. I would rather be there in this process of loving me than in a recycle!... .hell yeah!  It's a process... .And I am getting to a better place. WOW... What a crazy ride it all has been... .

There sure is no fixing that whole mess.

On good days I feel sorry for her and the way she has to treat people because of her illness.

On bad days, I can't. I am human, afterall and I can sometimes forgive myself too, today!  

It gets better with time if we work at it and take our part.

Coming here helps.

While not mentally ill, I have learnt to accept that I needed to really work on my own mental health - completely separate to my ex. We each brought a level of dysfunction to the relationship and I see it very clearly.

My ex's behaviour triggered my own sensibilities and it took a long while post break up to begin to comprehend what I needed to do to heal. 4 years post break up and I'm still learning daily. I recognise new triggers however I'm much better at sorting through my feelings than I use to.

To get to this point I had to look at my own patterns of relating, my own history at how I dealt with triggers which also included knowing my triggers.

I stopped (80% of the time) brushing my feelings aside and started to really feel. I was conscious of what my childhood taught me. I accepted my childhood was not all rosy. Most importantly I stopped blaming my ex as started to own what was mine.

It's hard, it was tiring and I'm still learning.

Am I bitter? Not anymore. I respect my ex for who he is because that's all he can be. I can't and don't wish to change who he is. He's a lovely person with issues. I'm an awesome

Person with issues. I've learnt a lot because of him and for that I will forever be thankful. I no longer harbour anger because I own my part.

Maybe it is an inappropriate example, but imagine if a person with mental disease on the street hurts one of our family members, it is still hard to say it doesn't matter, he did it only because he is ill. What will we do? Maybe still trying to persuade the police to put him in prison? The thing is, realizing the reason behind the behavior can help me understand more, but not stop the pain I feel.

I am a human being and have feelings. Although I read books and know I should not take the words and behaviors personally, my feeling was still got hurt. I still have strong headache when I think about the past. I love him but I am scared to hear those words again. I love him but I can't handle staying together with him. I hope I would be a robot and can delete the negative words at once with a button.

I am not bitter towards him nor hate him. What I can do is only to forgive him, to wish him all the best and to keep a distance and rescue myself.

After the initial trauma, I was 100% staying.

Mrs. Fix it.

Heck, I'd been cleaning up his messes for 20+ years... .I could do this. I am a strong woman.

Over the next 6 months, his abuse, broke me.

The following 2 YEARS I had "moments" where I thought I was mentally healthy/strong; only for him to drag me back to the brink of destruction.

It was ONLY after I sought help from a local abuse advocate did I begin to see what was REALLY happening to me. Classic abuse.

Speaking to an advocate, going to group meetings, and reading everything I could get my hands on EDUCATED me. Gave me the power to say "no more".

Gave me the power to say "good bye".


Reality is reality.

If the ex had an affair, and a finger is pointed that they are unfaithful, cheaters, adulterers?

That's because that is reality.

I could not 'see' reality while I was with him.

I could not "see" clearly at all.

He had me so clouded... .2-3 months after I threw him out and went NC... .THAT is when I really started to heal. But until then? I was such a mess... .so clouded.

There are different stages of grief. Each stage must be worked thru to complete the process.

One part is the anger.

It's ok to be angry. It's ok to let it out.

WE ARE victims.

Victims of abuse. The evil that was done to me personally, left a permenate scar on me. I may never be able to shake it / fully recover from it.

And it would have NEVER happened had I never met my exhusband... .

I have no sympathy for the devil.

I feel bad for his  next victim. She has no idea what she's getting herself into... .

I feel bad for our kids, their hearts are so broken, their lives forever changed.

But I have no sympathy for the devil. He made his choices. He made his bed of nails, he can sleep in it.

I don't hate him, I'm no longer mad at him.

I don't 'wonder' what he's doing or who he's doing it with.

I simply, don't care.

I have finally arrived at 'indifferent'.

It took, 3 long, dark years... .but Praise the Lord, I have arrived!

Going Places I agree about not thinking clearly when you exist in this type of r/s.

I know I'm going into post 3 months b/u.

My mind has been restored to this being my thoughts of , what was I thinking to be treated so mean, what was I accepting as reality, why was I catering and fixing to make this pwBPD happy, why did I get blamed for ALL... , Ect .?

Now it's what I live with w myself daily and I have to not only grieve which is anger, bargaining , depression , denial, and hopefully some acceptance . I have to also re train my thoughts of ALL that I was told by my ex. Painful truths of what I LET happen to me because of loving my ex. Loving our family, believing in the good parts. That's what I believe you do when your in a r/s is you know the flaws and accept them and work on getting better. My ex wasn't all that bad. I think she had a death this past year of her dad and she also was on pain meds ... .If I look at my part I couldn't handle a death, pain pill personality , and BPD. I was a walking shell of a human. Nothing to give. The problem is when you have nothing to give w a BPD your useless . I did things like function in ALL ways like taking care of house and kids. That's about it . So when the tornado happened I got sucked into the storm and now I'm repairing myself. I lost my family my ex because I couldn't and didn't have anything to give.

This is the reality if mental illness it is not a kind disorder that will wait for self care.

Now it's my self care w some random negative feelings I get to learn to let pass and also try to recover from. It's a work in progress . I have had acceptance in this lately and it feels like there is a light at the end of the tunnel . Pray is my answer daily.

OK, so should I say, I totally forgive my ex,  I am playing the victim and poor guy he is mentally ill?

1. I don't forgive my ex YET. Screaming and yelling in my face, lying, cheating, manipulating, humiliating, is not something I have completely wrapped my head around or am able to forgive yet. It was 8 years so I guess it will take more than 4 months to uncondition (not such a word) me.

2.  I am playing the victim? What is a person suppose to do when the above is happening to them by someone they love? What if it happens at 4 in the morning when your just sleeping and have done NOTHING? I have questioned myself over and over again. I have almost blamed myself for his behavior. When you have no self esteem left after being called a nothing, a c... .t, old, etc... .you start to feel all of those things are true and it is hard to find strength to fight back.

3.  Just because my ex BPD fiancé has a mental illness which he does not admit does not make an excuse for his behaviors. He could say I am sorry, he could seek help, he could admit his actions are unkind.

I too would have never experienced such mental and emotional abuse had I not met my ex. I am working backwards to be the person I was before I met him. Healing takes time and going through the stages of grief sometimes MANY times before indifference.

When your on a rollercoaster and get off only to walk on eggshells it takes all the fight in you to find solid ground.

And there are the keys in a nutshell peeps: become thankful for the experience because of what we learned as a result, and own our part.  When we get there the emotions around the relationship become positive, maybe even empowering, and allow us to move forward with a spring in our step.

I don't know if I am thankful for being abused ?

I have no clue why or what's wrong w this PD .

The work I have to do has been interesting I guess ,

About "why the heck" was I so dumbfounded and blind.

I would not like to encounter this ever it was like I wasted my time

Give yourself time and be patient with yourself and you'll come to understand why.

I attached to my ex, a Borderline and I stayed despite the abuse - this I need to own - for those reasons I need to better understand me so I don't date Borderline #2.

Check out the Taking Personal Inventory Board and explore some of those reasons

Humans are motivated more by pain than pleasure, sad but true, and if we can use the pain imposed by abuse to dig deep and discover how we got so deep in bullsht to begin with, we were willing volunteers after all, then we can change things; identifying the problem is the first step in resolving it.  Of course most of us didn't know we were entering a relationship with someone with a mental illness and got blindsided, but how long after we knew did we stay?


 

There you go, great question, dig there.


The only wasted pain is the pain we don't use.  What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?  Once you focus on yourself and dig deep, and become a better version of you, you may look back and be a little shocked at who you used to show up as, and grateful when you then notice the contrast and how far you've come.  Take care of you!

Very well said fromheeltoheal.

I ran and blocked uncomfortable emotions my entire life until I met my ex. The break up unleashed a while truck load of emotions. It's a good thing. My childhood was rigid, my father an alcoholic so there was no room for me and my emotions. My ex was full of emotion as we all know and I gravitated towards him. I felt like a child and felt like I was somewhat free from my stuff while I was with him. Until it went south then it triggered so much childhood stuff I had no clue where to start. Created a double edged sword. I thought I loved my ex but he abused me so how could I.

I met my ex to rewrite some childhood angst

A therapist really helped me sort through it all. Relief!

We are mentally ill if they are. We don't have a DSMV yet but perhaps we should. It's not mental illness as much as two opposing gangs reacting oppositely to childhood abuse and neglect (in many cases, not everyone's story). We have an attachment disorder and poor boundaries - so do they. The difference is their 'illness' serves them (or they believe it does) and so they don't change, ours hurts us and by meeting them (our red pill) we are forced to change.

OP -- I agree with you.  I think it could perhaps take as long as 5 months for a non to fully grasp and accept the concept of BPD in the fallout of one of these relationships.  Once the concept is fully grasped and accepted, it's difficult to feel bitter towards the pwBPD.  The non might understandably have some bitterness about having the experience in general.  My pwBPD did some horrible things (all the typical BPD stuff you read about here, with some flashes of ASPD), but I think the one thing I could describe myself as most bitter about is that she didn't make more of an effort to describe to me her psychological problems early in the relationship.  I really think she owes it to partners to say "I have Borderline Personality Disorder, it can be serious at times, and here are some resources you should read."  For better or worse, I will always love my pwBPD unconditionally (albeit from a distance of NC). 

Hard... .But not impossible. I grasp BPD fully, I also see what she went thru as a kid and it's horrendous but mine was no walk in the park and for a coin toss I'd say she had it easier. She knows she has an illness and does nothing cos people enable her. Yes I pity her but I do not absolve her, she's an emotional terrorist praying on the good nature of soft people with poor boundaries. More fool me - it's an important lesson, but I can still feel very angry.

I like that, Trog - that's a good word to use.

absolve: to set or declare (someone) free from blame, guilt, or responsibility.

I pity her for the things she went through in her childhood.

I'm moving towards forgiveness for the things she did in our r/s.

But I, like you, don't absolve her of the responsibility for her actions. Many of them were incredibly hurtful.

Maybe at some later point I will fully forgive her but right now I don't give a monkeys what her reasonings are or what she is up too. All im interested in is why I was in a position to get into this relationship and how I can resolve my naivety and understand my part in it.

Does that mean I have to understand her part? To a degree yes but I'm just not interested in her, ive dedicated so much time to trying to figure her out i lost myself and because the perfect puppet - till I snapped and chucked her out. I will think about the relationship and the things I allowed her to get away with only in relation to my healing - I just don't have the space for her too anymore - sorry! Sounds harsh, but that's the way it's gotta be.

I,  and our children HAVE learned a lot from him.

1. He has lied to us their whole lives / our whole marriage.

2. He has manipulated us our whole lives / marriage.

3. He has deceived us our whole lives / marriage.

4. He hid, fed, and indulged in an addiction right under our noses, and we had no idea.

5. He is an adulterer.

I am thankful FOR NONE of this.

What he did was reprehensible.

It was 100% completely self absorbed, and disgusting.


What I am thankful for is this Scripture:

Deuteronomy 31:6  Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the Lord your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you.”

The children and I had "no part" in this.

I / my children will 'accept' NO part of his sickening choices.

I was "counseled" by a 'pastor' w the ex for 4 months and I was "tricked, deceived, manipulated' into 'accepting blame for HIS CHOICES'... .which spiraled me into the blackest of depressions, and intensified my (at that time) undiagnosed PTSD (that HE CAUSED).

Yeah. NO.

If you are standing in a shopping mall and a person decides to commit a horrible crime, what is 'your part'?

You have no part, other than you were in the mall at the same time... .

No. Sorry, I am not going to be fooled again into thinking *I* have to take on some of the blame or responsibility for HIS CHOICES.

Nope. No way.

I can forgive him for everything he did; but it was 100% all him.

His choices.

His words.

His actions.

His in-actions.

His lies.

His abuse... .

Absolutely none of these CHOICES are anyone's fault, but his. Period. To suggest otherwise is dead wrong.

Going places it is truth that ALL they did was harmful to each of us individually I too am not ok what I have had happen to me and my family that also endured this. I think what your pastor says is to have empathy for his illness. This is not a over night matter. Time can only fix that. In my deepest part of me I'd like to forgive but I know I will never forget . I say this from experience my dad did some things when I was a teen that changed me drastically . I tried for years to act like it was ok and keep status quo . Later in life he and I have drifted apart which has been estranged due to everyone thinking I should forgive. I have forgiven but I know I can't fake the way I see it. It happened and part of his consequence is he lost a daughter . I love my dad but to be around him has been sick for me. To thine own self be true . I know what he did was wrong it damaged a part of me that I have had to work on for years. He is not my blame for my decisions I live out my own consequence . As for BPD and its damage its bad how else can you describe ... It's a lie. And we buy it. Then were left w it's aftermath . Now we try to pray we find peace from it. I think the peace is for us. I guess Jews and world war 2 have to find peace in the horror too. A man of God wants us to forgive our enemy's . Because w bitterness we are of no use to God. Love is the answer . Just learn to forgive even if it takes a lifetime. Keep trying or you will be eaten up by hate. Be happy in the things you have today and your choices. These harmful experiences become a tool to help others but our hearts must find the peace in it. Keep praying

It's not really necessary to forgive, except ourselves.  Once we learn the lessons, because everything does happen for a reason and it serves us, and own our part, which could be as simple as we chose to stay when we should have left, and forgive ourselves for that, then the anger will wane, we can slowly shift our focus from our ex to ourselves and those we care about, and shift our focus from the past to the future, start taking steps in that direction, the momentum will build as we take our wiser self, a better version of ourselves, into the future as we build the life of our dreams.  And then the ex won't matter.  They just won't matter.

Thanks for this.  I really like your shopping mall example.  I am surprised by how many comments I read on here about "What is wrong with us for getting involved in these relationships?"  While everyone's situations are different, I can speak for myself and say that I was blindsided by BPD.  This is not to say that everyone shouldn't be on the lookout for areas of self improvement (as I am), but just because you were involved with a pwBPD doesn't mean you are guilty of anything or that there's anything wrong with you.  

YOU are spot on!


No, what that 'pastor' said was (and I quote) "If you had been a better wife, this would not have happened"

He also accused me of being "jealous" of the ex's addiction to his 'picture friends' on the internet / tv.

He also told me that if I talked about the trauma to my ex, anyone else, or even thought about it: I WAS UNFORGIVING... .so after burying it for a year... .I finally spoke to my MD who diagnosed me with PTSD and major depression.

No, that pastor was not saying anything but it was my fault.

That pastor KNEW about ex's 'picture friend addiction' and 'his affairs'... .

HE WAS NOT trained or equippted to deal with PTSD / Depression / Abuse or PD's.

He was all about the "woman submit"... .

Somewhat similarly, my own father said to me something along the lines of, "You know this is not all her fault, two people are responsible for a failed relationship".  Clearly, the pastor, like my father, has not taken the time to do even brief reading about BPD.  Almost no non is going to be perfect in a relationship, but rest assured that simply being a better spouse would not have stopped the inevitable.  My ex could not properly attach.  If I was the "perfect" guy in the universe that would have likely only caused her BPD symptoms to be even more severe.

I think it is great that some people on this thread are forgiving of their ex, have learned and seen their part and have healed and grown and moved on. They have seen the light. They no longer blame themselves they look at this as an opportunity for growth. Not all of us are there yet... .for some they never will be or maybe from a distance, for some can't absolve them but can forgive etc... .

We are all different and we have all been through so many experiences to try and wrap into one is impossible. Some still feel the affects of being blindsided, abused, lied to, manipulated etc.

All of us grow and heal at our own pace and how we are suppose to.

*mod*

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