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I have found My People.

I would suggest a group hug, but that would probably just freak us all out. Instead, let's opt for a group quiet walk in the woods.

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HappyNihilist, thanks for the chuckle! I could handle a group hug right now, I'm getting better!    

I'm actually going for my first ever professional massage tomorrow... .I put my therapy on hold because something inside me is steering me towards human touch (and I can't afford to do both)! I have been hesitant as I fear it will unleash a torrent of tears but I'm going for it! I'm ready!

omg... .and I have found MY people as well. I like rock concerts, but I must be in front of the stage so I cannot see the rest of the people there. Also, people who are huggers freak me out. I have friends/acquaintances that like to hug, and I have told them it's an awkward thing for me. I end up doing this halfway bro-hug with one arm and my back arched away as far as possible. Now my husbands and kids... .totally different.

It often caused me to get angry as a child because being sensitive I was often told I was just too sensitive and had my reality frequently invalidated.  It sort of caused a complex in me that is a major contributing factor of why I stayed once I began to be devalued in my rs with my uBPD exgf.

Well if it isn't my "peeps"   I scored 100. *)

I think being a HSP explains why I am an artist, I'm introverted and even some of my OCD tendencies (very organized! They love that about me at work).  I focus on or am more comfortable with the "internal" because sometimes "outside" is overwhelming.

I'm sensitive to over stimulation... .crowds, competing sounds (like listening to the radio with the TV on or too many people talking at the same time), or even trying to multi task. I most definately need and do take time for myself.

Yep, I'm pretty sensitive too.  And what do we get to make that mean?  When I was younger I just thought I wasn't 'doing it right', life seemed so overwhelming, but instead of hiding out I'd dive in anyway, intentionally spend a lot of time out of my comfort zone, figuring it would get better with time and practice.  It did a little, in that I learned to become desensitized to things, which can be a benefit if used right.  Alcohol works too, desensitizes well, but the down sides aren't worth it.  Caffeine?  Problem.  It's the world's most popular antidepressant and in our move-real-fast world, highly condoned.  Slowing down enough to not need or want it swims against the tide of the river I'm in.  Problem.  But a new pot just got brewed... .

Oh, and drugs and supplements: if the label says take two, I take a half, 'standard dosages' always throw me for a loop.

But lately, as I've gotten older, I'm finding it much easier to embrace myself and who I am, even celebrate it, long time coming.  Recently I learned about Myers-Briggs and that I'm an INTJ, someone with a rich inner life, someone who never gets bored and is rarely lonely.  Validating that, especially since I grew up thinking I was 'weird'.  Still am weird, in the very best of ways.

Highly sensitive people perceive things that many may miss, the nuances.  I like that.  :)oesn't gel well with bull-in-a-china-shop masculine males sometimes, the message we got was men are tough, which was a problem growing up, but I learned how to fake insensitive (are tough and insensitive opposites?), and today I see the pitfalls of tough all too clearly.  I'm good where I'm at and will continue to value the upsides of an HSP label, it's me after all, and some folks really like me that way.

Ooo!  Sidebar: I just went on a cruise, the ocean was a little rough, not bad, although the captain had his foot on the gas, and the boat was a rockin'.  Most people no problem, me?, I puked.  And puked.  I considered a purging, the sea gods were removing toxins.  Or something.  I felt lighter though.

Fromheeltoheel

That's interesting what you say about intjs.  The intj struck me as perhaps an insensitive personality type kind of the super villain of the personality types kind of the magneto to the Xmen.

That's the common perception Blim, and I work against it constantly.  The truth is INTJ's have a very rich inner life, so much so that social skills can be lacking, so we give the impression that we just don't give a sht, when we want to connect as much as anyone, just don't need to, and rarely if ever get lonely or bored.  All personality types have pluses and minuses, and the minuses can be overcome if we know what they are.  Fortunately I've developed an ability to be chatty, I can chat anyone up, although I also realize I used it as a tool to keep people away with superficial banter in my youth, but it's not much of a stretch to also use it to really connect with people, and when I keep boundaries in place and choose the right ones, I can express my vulnerability and sensitivity without being afraid.  It's a brand new world.

Now that I look back on the types it just strikes me that each type is prone to its own flavor or narcissism.  But the "evil genius mastermind," character is definately an intj gone to the dark side. 

Yep.  I added skylights and windows to my lair and threw a party.  Let there be light!

While l like the Meyrs briggs in many ways I have a lot of issues with it as well.  One of them is that I notticed many people that are into the Meyrs Briggs sort of use it in a spiritual bypassing sort of way to enable and justify the limits of their empathy .  The member eeks made a post with a link to a good article on spiritual bypassing. 

Yep, human nature is too complex to divide up into 16 boxes and getting married to your box can be limiting.  What I've gotten out of it mostly is validation for how I've always thought and felt and that is freeing, just another tool in the toolbox.  Take what we need, leave the rest.

I just re-took the Myers Briggs test (did it the first time about 6 mths ago) and I am still an INFJ... .I would be curious what the personality types are of the others here that are HSP.

I looked it up and it has been proposed the 4 nf types and Intj and intp. 

I myself am infp Meyrs Briggs type.

www.hspconnections.com/abouthsp.html

Well Blim you helped me again, thank you.  That link discusses HSP subcultures, one of which is High Sensation Seekers, someone who seeks out diverse and intense experiences, the very ones that end up being overstimulating; that describes the last few decades for me, and slowing down has always been a hurdle.  Probably a component of my attraction to borderline chaos too.  In a way it's comforting that folks already have 3 and 4 letter acronyms that describe me pretty well, and there are other folks who share my corner of the alphabet.

This is curious... .I am also an INFJ personality. It seems like most of us are going to be introverted, which makes sense. The profile does fit my personality quite well, though I don't take it as gospel. I'd rather pool many sources of data together to get a complete picture. As fromheeltoheal pointed out, human nature is more complex than that, but I do think it gives us a good baseline to start from.

Your welcome from heel to heal.   

Cold ethyl their is a lot of credo to the Meyrs briggs when you start getting to the level of how the functions stack and how they interact and process things.  The thing is it still fits into a larger psychological framework.  The issue is it often comes off as having a horoscope like feel and people use it like atrology to excuse and justify bad behavior.  I hate how people use astrology.  It actually fits into an old psychological map that utilizes the ancient myths and religions that describes psychology on an archtypal level. 

HSP score:  117

INTP test points:  19/2 - 26/0 - 13/11 - 21/1  (points on the right are the ESFJ points).

Only the Thinking vs. Feeling was borderline. 

*Nods* My horoscope also fits me pretty well, but  know exactly what you are talking about. My mother would even use it for an excuse to have a bad day and be a jerk because... .well... .the stars said she would have one. It's the same issue with any patterns of human behaviors, really.

119 and im a INFJ and my ex was a ENFP which caused a lot of issues in itself then throw in NPD  

I scored 103 on the HSP test, and I'm an INFP.

It's always lovely to discover we're not so alone. *non-overstimulating group hug*

question for you guys,  anyone have what I call music memory? for example I love the 80's music but I cant really listen to it because it had some very deep emotions tied to that time and its painful to hear. I was 15 in 1987 and we had to move from my hometown that I grew up in and I left all my friends and my girlfriend at the time and it really effected me in a deep and negative way. so when I hear music from that time its like it was yesterday and emotions are tuff to deal with.

whats funny is that if life is going great it doesn't effect me as bad, I asked my ex if she ever felt that way and she looked at me like I had snakes coming out of my ears  lol

Oh yes, certain music from an era can immediately take me back there emotionally, some good, some bad.  It's kinda cool, and I agree with you on the 80's: I was stoned for most of it so the memories are more nonexistent than bad, but that music sucked!  All synthesizers and drum machines.  And big hair.

An even stronger sense is the sense of smell, because it's older, and certain smells, ammonia, an auto shop, wood fires, transport me to long-ago places, but it's more subtle.  Stuff sticks around and makes an imprint.

Eco, I'm almost the same age as you and yes, music definitely transports me back, especially the 80's music (my teenage years). Also the music that I had on my 'romance' playlist when I was with my ex... .just starting to be able to listen to those without crying. For me, because I love the music so much, I forced myself to listen to it over and over until it stopped triggering me.

Fromheeltoheal, I can relate to the smell being a huge trigger too! Only once have I come across someone wearing the cologne of my ex and it send me for a tailspin! Luckily it's not that common!  Have to disagree with you on the 80's music though, loved it and still do! :)

I know what you mean specific events associated with particular music and when you hear that music later and it takes you right back to the place... .to the emotion.  

I went through a period of depression when I couldn't tolerate music at all because I didn't want to feel and music always makes me feel.  

One of the first things I did after coming out of my depression and started leaving my marriage was listen to music again.  I have a whole soundtrack for finding myself again... .some touching, some empowering, some just fun and full of energy, some just beautiful to listen to, some reminding me of who I was and some I liked to sing along with and walk to.  I love it when something from that soundtrack comes on the radio it takes me right back to that place of power, of fear, of excitement, of friendships and later to new love... . 

I thought you were an infp for a while now

Yeah, I have a theory you're reinforcing that whatever music we like when we're teens we'll always like; for me it was the 70's.  :)id you dress like Madonna?

YES! smell definitely takes me back, certain perfumes remind me of ex girlfriends and one in particular reminds me of my ex wife that ended badly and is actually emotionally painful. other smells like cleaners and detergents remind me of my youth, I grew up in florida and we use to do some work in orange groves and to this day oranges takes me back to those early memories of when I was 2. I have vivid memories of those orange groves with my mom, speaking of memories I have a few vivid ones of when I was around 8 months old that my mom refuses to believe that I can remember, they aren't bad memories but my mom says " you cant remember that you were to young" sorry mom but I remember it like it was yesterday lol


I love music as well all different kinds, right now im in a painful position in my life where my exNPD/BPD is trying to alienate my daughter from me so the only music im listening to is instrumental nothing with any vocals in it.


yeah I plan on doing that as well in the future

its nice to hear that im not alone with these things

Nope, never got into Madonna lol... .did have some big hair and shoulder pads though! And I love 70's music even more than 80's so I'm blowing your theory out of the water! lol Led Zeppelin is my fave!

I went backwards too, 60's and 70's are the faves, Stones, Zeppelin, Who, Grateful Dead, CSN, Beatles and there was a decent rebirth in the 90's, but the 80's man, makes me cringe.  Shoulder pads were hot though, and Ditto jeans looked great too!

Anyway, maybe if I wasn't such a Highly Sensitive Person I'd be more into Def Leppard, Motley Crue and Bob Jovi?  Gotta go fire up some Enya and work on it... .

:) I wasn't surprised to see that you were, as well.

Yes, I'm an INFP through and through... .my workplace is big on Myers-Briggs, so I've taken multiple versions of the test many times over the past decade, and my score never varies. I work with a lot of ESTJs, so I'm definitely challenged to address my own weaknesses and overcome communication barriers in my career. I can usually be found running into trees that I didn't see while looking at the forest.


Smell is a big one for me, too. I have a strong sense of smell (which is a blessing and a curse), and my brain is like a pocketbook of scent memories.

As a highly sensitive person and an "nf" mbti type I often find myself feeling for other people quite litterally often the parts of themself they are hiding from which is usually pain. It's like a gift and a curse.  I often find myself saying, "I feel for you."  Little does the person I say that to often know I mean it litterally!

I would find it facinating to find a paper on the relationship between empathy and projection and countertransference too I suppose.

But yeah happy nihilist my step mom is an estj and its like she has very limited empathy I'm not sure how much of that is just her or is common to all estj's. Which is one of my problems with the mbti because it's almost like she could read her type and then just justify away all the crap she pulls. It's like she's so stuck in this model she has of the world and that model is like her God essentially, it is the voice of her inner critic and she's so trapped in it she can be so cold and cruel at times. 

Yes, I do. I put a lot of emotional feelings into music. I'm a bit young for the 80s music, though I remember it but my high school music was the grunge era of the 90's. I can't really listen to Metallica anymore because it my ex-h and my stuff, our wedding song was "Nothing Else Matters". We were married 14 years before we divorced, and he died less than 2 years later from lung cancer. So, Metallica=him to me. I used to get angry if Metallica come on because I had so much frustration and anger at him.

I feel for you.  

I'm notorious for things like crying when I see lost-pet posters, imagining the worry and sadness of the family who's missing their pet. When I was a child, I would fall into little depressions on family road trips whenever we'd pass abandoned buildings (esp small businesses, like country mom'n'pop stores) because of how sad it was that someone's livelihood was now just decaying. I would think of how happy and hopeful they must have been on the first day of business. I was 5, 6, 7 at the time.

One of my most distinct childhood memories is from around 5-6, when my mom and I were running around in the yard at dusk, catching fireflies. I watched her, laughing and acting like a kid, and suddenly it hit me that one day she would be dead, and everything she was would cease to exist. I ran inside the house crying. My poor mom had no idea what had happened or what was wrong with me. I remember that moment and that feeling as vividly as if it happened ten minutes ago. Again... .wtf, childhood brain of mine?

It's one of the reasons I tend towards an avoidant attachment style... .self-protection. It's not entirely healthy (obvs), and I'm working on building better ways to take care of myself, but I'm sure parts of that will always be with me. They've been around a loong time, after all.

@Happy I'm glad you brought that up. I cry at lost dog posters and such, also. There never was a Disney film I did not cry on. My D15 since she was little cries when people make fun of others and she has seen roadkill and cries. Poor thing. Looks like I passed on some junk lol

And of course because I'm so overly sensitive, I cried reading this!

I cry more for other's suffering than my own... .I think I have detached so much from my own emotions over the years, I always wondered if I cry over other people's stuff bc I need to let it out and it's the only way I will allow myself. 

On my 2nd date with my uBPDexh he was telling me a very tragic story about his ex-wife and I cried... .he knew he had me hooked!


I have also passed this along to my two kids (dammit!)... .my S10 is so sensitive I don't dare watch the news or even a nature show where an animal might die. My D21 has detached herself from a lot of feelings, I think that's why she uses drugs... .it's her way of coping as they are overwhelming... .as a little girl she was as sensitive as my son.

*Nods* I've noticed her trying to 'save' her friends, too. Bullies don't bother her, but she gets really emotional if someone bullies her brother (He's 10 Asperger's) or her friends. I've been sharing what I learn about myself with her, hoping it will help. I talk to her about my mistakes and how much I understand her feelings but... .aye i just don't know. It might be lessons she needs to learn on her own  I've offered T, she is not interested. She's the kind of kid that refuses to ask for help because she doesn't want to bother someone. She wouldn't even tell a teacher she couldn't read his handwriting when trying to take notes because she didn't want to hurt his feelings.

Awwwww!   Bless both of your sweet, warm hearts.

Having empathy is not at all junk, nor is being sensitive.  But I know what you mean. It's definitely a hard way to live at times. One of my friends has a highly sensitive, empathetic teenage daughter. She recently read this book, Why Smart Kids Worry by Allison Edwards, and said it was really good.


Oh, sweetie!   


It's ok to cry for your own sad, lonely child. I know that's easier said than believed, trust me. But you deserve to feel your own feelings, grieve your own losses, acknowledge your own pain. 

Along with Disney films I would like to add hallmark card commercials 

Thanks HappyNihilist  , I'm learning to let it go... .This past year I have come to know my own pain and sadness in a way I've never been able to. Reading 'The Shame that Binds You' by John Bradshaw helped me to get in touch with this. It's a great book!

Yeah I know that feeling.  My imagination was very active as a child. That is projection though.  I think empathy and projection have a strange relationship.  For me it is like when I empathize i understand where that person is at in themself but then it is like what they are hiding from themself starts to like trigger that part in myself.  So it's like hard to distinguish because I'm encountering my own shadow material and like the missing parts of what the other is feeling to complete the whole.  Then I like cycle through all those emotions that make up the missing or potentially hidden parts of that other persons reality. 

The hard part of all that is it is like I exist almost outside the parameter of that persons reality so it can feel lonely or more like I see them but they don't see me. It also kind of takes a toll on me to do that for people. 

HappyNihilist, can you elaborate on this?  It has struck a chord with me... .just trying to sort it out. 

That's a good point.

And it's one reason I love abandoned buildings and such now - it allows me to build my own stories and emotions on a fairly blank canvas. I'm a writer, and I suppose I've always seen the world in a "writerly" way, full of stories to either uncover or build myself.

I do try to recognize when I'm doing this with people, so I can back off and really understand what they're saying and feeling, instead of what my imagination might be filling in. Of course I'm not always successful. lol


This speaks a lot to me.


I know that avoidant attachment is often described as dismissive, a person who doesn't feel the need for close emotional relationships. I'm not necessarily that way. It's more like - I know how much I tend to "take on" of others. Highly sensitive, INFP, empathetic, FOO issues related to caretaking, naturally thin boundaries (Ernest Hartmann's book Boundaries in the Mind was very helpful for me)... .I'm not quite a borderline walking around emotionally raw all the time, but I know that my conditioned inclination is to take on great amounts of feeling and pain.

So, to keep from taking that on, I can tend towards avoidance. While it's not my primary attachment style - I'm (barely, heh) mostly secure, with anxious a close second - it definitely makes its presence known. If I don't get too close, I don't take on so much.

I know it's definitely possible to have all of those traits (and a variety of others) and protect oneself in healthy ways, and have a fulfilling existence. And I've seen firsthand how ineffective those flawed defense mechanisms are, and how important it is not to avoid pain at all costs.

How did this strike a chord with you, Pingo? What questions are you trying to sort out for yourself? 

Well, I was just discussing with my good friend about how I choose men who aren't real 'partners'... .they all seem to be lousy with money, shirk responsibility for the relationship and just don't give of themselves freely. I've read a lot of books about attachment theory and I still don't know if I'd peg them all 'avoidant' but I guess in some ways they are. I wonder why I choose these men... .is it so I can feel more worthy as I'm in a one-up position... .the codependent part of me coming out, making myself feel better by being able to give more and do better than them, thus controlling the r/s? Or is it a matter of I just don't feel good enough for anything else?  Maybe a true partner is too big a risk, too much to lose when they reject me? ... .These are the things I am pondering. 

Panda, don't get me started on soldiers coming home and dog videos!