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It was a good picture.  I didn't care what her response was either way.  The last time I was getting the cold shoulder, I sent a pic of the kids and she commented on it.  I didn't see a difference this time.  I'm not angry, just realizing it takes a lot of energy to do what she does and avoid.  No skin off my back.


Definitely talk with my wife because I also have to deal with the IRS which includes my wife as we have a tax debt together.

I'm thinking that the 'test' is to mostly reach out with neutral/personal business matters.

If she wants to engage emotionally (in either a positive or a negative way!) she will bite on that, and respond accordingly.

If you reach out trying to connect to her, you see the results.


A quick bit of googling found this on the issue (emphasis mine):


In other words... .the whole point of filing separately for you is exactly the opposite of what you said. If you file separately, you are NOT responsible for any of her tax debt, and she isn't responsible for any of yours. You shouldn't even have to talk to her about taxes, other than telling her that you won't be filing jointly with her this year. (Which will become obvious if she asks you to sign a joint return!)

Last night my son asked me to ask my wife if she would come to his first game tonight.  I texted her (because he asked me to ask) and asked her if she would come with no response.  This morning, instead of simply answereing me, she is trying to pull me into a fight regarding a tax statement given to me by our church and emailed the Pastor and is basically trying to make me look bad.  It seems she is trying to pick a fight with me to justify her "lack of response" in her own mind because she knows she is letting my son down.  He adores her and she always adored him.  I responded to all on the email and simply said, "Wife, as I have told you several times previously, I have the giving statement." and left it at that.  I won't be pulled in to her crap and won't respond any further on the issue.  She will have to deal with it.  Her issues can be mentally exhausting sometimes.  


I get this going forward, but we have a tax debt from previous years.

My wife texted me and we got into a discussion about how to split the "tax deduction" and I said "50-50" since we are married, she has three kids to claim and I don't.  She said they are irrelevant since they aren't mine biologically.  I told her it will only be a few hundred dollar break to us and would is not a big deal as I was looking at the deduction online.  She then said, "Well, if it isn't a big deal, then why are you trying to slant things your way?"  Wow... .Projecting much?  I then said, "Ok, 60-40 then since that is the true indication of what our income split is"  She said, " I won't sit here and guess what you make and what the split is.  Send me a pic of your W-2, here's mine."  Then she sent me a pic of her W-2 and told her I would send it later this evening.  She said that woud be fine.  I said ok.  I did not JADE, or argue or fight back, but God pwBPD can be "impossibley unreasonable sometimes.  Nothing about my son's game and I won't chase her about it.  She has to live with the choice of letting him down.  I did my best not to get in the middle of her crap.  Really tired of the push/pull and her letting my children down.  She chooses to let her own children down by not inviting me to their stuff, but I won't stoop down to that level.

 

Why are you guys discussing how to split this up.  Is this to facilitate filing separately?.

I'm a bit lost here...

Makes sense to me that the kids would be the next battleground for your relationship.

I don't suppose you can come to an understanding with her about definitions and boundaries with regards to her kids during this separation, can you? (For instance, is she OK with you continuing to refer to them as "your" kids? What role does she want you to play as their coach?) Maybe you can ask for some guidance on this issue, either from her or from your therapist.

ADDED: I see formflier's post now, and feel the same sense of confusion in general. The IRS stuff kind of forces the issues, even if you're not ready for such clear definitions.

 

I'm back.

I get it that you have past tax debt... .

You will both have to pay this year (from previous posts)... .so there are no refunds to claim... or for the IRS to take.

So... why discuss "this years" taxes with her? OK.you already have it appears... .so... .wow... we need to be careful moving forward. 

The more discussions you have with her... .the more assumptions she can make... and you can break... .leading to bad things.

I think grey had a simple email proposal... .a while back.  "I'll be doing my own taxes this year." 

Hmmm.  I am most likely still missing something... .

We are talking about filing separately.  The deduction we were discussing was a "contribution statement" to our church.  It is ridiculously petty because the break we'll get is only a few hundred dollars, which is why I know this isn't about that, or she hasn't a clue that 25% roughly of the giving is what break we'll get.  I think the standard deductions outweigh the statement by like a grand or so... ..  

My thought on this latest issue is that it is a diversion from the real issue.  She feels bad (shame) that she hasn't responded to my son's request last night that she come to his first baseball game tonight (trying to punish me for the w/d from a couple of weeks ago) and trying to find something, anything to project those bad feelings on to me so that she can not feel bad for ultimately punishing my son who adores her and vice versa.  She has to live with that, not me.  I am not letting her latest issue bother me at all and why I'm not arguing over it.  She tries to keep me out the loop regarding her kids for P/A, but I'm not stooping to her level and won't.  I will give her every opportunity to see their stuff.  If she doesn't, that's on her.  


She is fine with me calling them my kids until she dysregulates and then she tries her emasculation/parental alienation techniques because they worked in the past.  What she is especially mad about now is I have stuck to my guns on the w/d for 9 months and haven't backed down.  She keeps trying to pull the lever and see if I'll pay.  I haven't on this issue... .

This is also the weekend we were supposed to celebrate my son's 6th birthday as a family... .This also seems to happen a couple of weeks before I'm supposed to stay with her kids while she is out of town... .It's the weekend of my birthday next month... .

I'm a bit stuck on the "kids issue," as it seems the kids are starting to suffer.  :'(

I hear ya... .Like I said, it won't be by my actions.  I will give her every opportunity to make the decisions "for the children" and can't make her do the same.  She knows I want to go to all of the children's activities.  I think there is some validity to her being jealous that I see and take care of my children finanially and her father and her ex didn't/don't.  Instead of being grateful that she has a man that wants to be a father to her kids, it's almost like she has to sabotage it to prove to herself that all men are alike.  I accept that she chooses to not inform me so that I miss out (regardless of what disordered thinking/reasoning is that she does it), but I choose the opposite and give her the opportunity to be a part and not have to live with the regret.  Maybe I'm dumb, but to me, that is unconditional love.

If you don't have enough things to deduct to itemize, and will be taking the standard deduction isntead fo ryourself (Guessing not 'cuz I think you are renting), let her have the whole charitable deduction.

It avoids a fight. It doesn't cost you anything that you would be able to use.

Maybe I don't understand the situation properly.

Maroon, you are doing the right thing with your kids (and her kids). Please continue to do the right thing--being as involved as your wife will let you, and inviting her to be involved with your kids. Don't take any cues from her bad behavior. Don't go down to her level.

My only suggestion is this--if (when?) she doesn't show up for your son's game, make sure you validate HIS feelings about it. He will be hurt or mad or (whatever) that she blew him off. He might even be mad at you over it, as you couldn't talk any sense into her. It isn't your job, but you can't hold your son to understanding/knowing this. Just validate how he's feeling, whatever happens.

Don't try to make excuses for her. Don't try to explain what she did, or what she didn't do. If you do anything like that, it is invalidating and confusing for your son.

You understand it perfectly.  Thanks.  I went ahead and texted her, told her that she could use it for hers and that it did me no good as the standard deduction was more.  She hasn't responded yet.


I refuse to.  The kids are too important to me, love them too much and want what's best for them.


I told him last night that I wasn't sure if she had plans or not but that I would ask.  The game was canceled today due to weather, so it is a non issue now.  I usually tell him or the kids that she already had other plans or that our plans couldn't mesh.  I don't like them to know too much drama.  I have told my older girls a little more obviously because they are at an age that they aren't stupid.  They all have seen her rage.  I have told the girls that she is dealing with some emotional trauma that affects some of her actions and to not take it personally.

Ouch! That one's going to make her squirm. She got what she wanted and it didn't cost you anything. :)

Thanks Offroad!  I needed the laugh this afternoon and realize that's why she probably hasn't responded.  Her crap didn't work.  :).  Was feeling kind of down due to her pulling this.  I'll get over it!  Again, needed the laugh.

Well, I just got divorce papers in the mail.  Not totally shocked.  Time to figure out my next move... .

Maroon, whatever happens, you are one helluva great guy. I'm hoping those kids can stay in your life.

Thanks.  I'm still hoping our marriage can work.  Does that make me pathetic?

Oh no, not at all! This could be the event that turns things around.

I don't see how that's possible.  Not saying it's not.  But man... .

Ha, I was just logging on to explain myself when you posted.

It makes no ordinary sense, for sure. But relationships like the one you've been in these past months often need a "reality check" if they are ever to get back on course.

I've read more than one story on the Legal board, in which a wife filed unwarranted charges of domestic abuse against her husband, only to be shocked when he subsequently defended himself in criminal court and turned the criminal complaint into a divorce action. Why? Because she felt that her complaint would help him see that he needed to pay more attention to her, and she was not aware of other consequences that would ensue. Her filing was an attempt to regain control in the relationship.

Your wife doesn't yet feel the effects of what a true separation from you would mean. If she goes through with this court action, her world will change quickly, and not for the better. If anything will wake her up to reality (and maybe nothing will), this will be it.

Hasn't she already pushed her mother away? If so, her world is getting really small.

Yep she has.  And doesn't talk to her sister much either... .

Aw Maroon, I'm so sorry.  Blech, is about the only thing coming for this action she took.  You sound to be taking it really well.

Thanks Pheebs.  I'm taking it alright.  Im not totally shocked.  I called her and left a message asking if she had a minute to talk, not mentioning I got the papers and she texted back saying she was driving and asked what I needed.  I didn't respond as I don't know what or if I should say.  A part of me thinks what Kate is saying is true and another part doesn't know what to think. 

I'd probably be thinking, "Whoa, huh... .what the... ."

And then my mind would be going a hundred miles an hour... .

Do I want to continue in a relationship with someone who blows off my kid?  Then the next day I'm served with divorce papers?  Omg wow wow!

New beginnings & boundaries is where it's at!

The old way was bull.

Yeah, I think you can only go forward now. That's really the only thing that is "good" about this.  :'(

Is calling her now a good idea? 

You need a plan.  To answer another question... .you are not pathetic.  If you want to try to save the r/s... .tell you L that and see how that affects the strategy... if at all.

Did the papers have a delivery receipt or a way that there is confirmation that you got the papers?

 

Maroon,

I was in a hurry to get those questions up... .now... .wanted to slow down just a sec and tell you how much I feel for you.

I'll be praying for you especially tonight.

 

You have worked your tail off... .the Maroon that I know now versus the one I got to know a long time ago is a totally different guy. 

You are making emotionally healthy choices for you... .and for your kids.  And putting your heart into it... .all in!

IMO... .can you do something special for you tomorrow... .?  How can you connect with your local support system?

Hang in there Maroon!

  I'm so sorry it is coming to this.

Have you posted on the legal board yet? From what I know, your divorce should be pretty simple from a legal point of view... .'tho you will get much better advice from people who have more experience with it than I do.

You could attempt to get some visitation rights with her kids in court, but it would be an uphill battle.

 GK

Thanks for .  :)oing something for myself tomorrow... .Hmmmm... .I have softball practice so it will be hard.  The other thing is, I have to see my daughter and try and act like everything is ok.  Frankly, I'm feeling down.  My friend who has been awesome in all this was very supportive and prayed with me.  My Pastor has been supportive.  My biological mother is happy that "the b*itch will be out of my life".  Really beginning to not like my bio mom.  She doesn't have one sympathetic/empathetic bone in her body.    I can't believe I'm here.  I really thought it was never going to get to this place.  i really thought it was getting better.  I feel like a failure at the moment.  A part of me wants to resort to my old self and call her and ask if paying the washer and dryer will stop this/fix it and ask why she's doing this (I won't).  That would be "paying out" based on the lever being pulled.  A part of me wants to go to sleep for four days.  I feel like a fool.  I do have peace and believe this isn't the end.  Can't tell if part of that's denial or wishful thing.  I really love my wife unconditionally and just feel like this is more push/pull.  Sorry.  Just putting all my thoughts down.  



Haven't posted on the legal board, but will. 

Nothing at all to apologize for.

You are a man that stood for his values and his convictions.  You've done the right thing... .don't ever doubt that.

Sometimes... .standing for your values is a lonely place.  If it was easy... .there would be more men around with the good solid values that you are living out.

  I know the feeling. Sometimes I don't believe my wife is done with our marriage either... .and my wife is in a lot better shape than yours--she doesn't flip between painting me black and painting me white like yours does.

I'm really ignorant on the actual divorce process--did you get something that already had the legal process started? Or did you get something which stated that she wanted a divorce and something about how to do the disposition of everything?

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.  :'(

I have the same question formflier asked:

Did the papers have a delivery receipt or a way that there is confirmation that you got the papers?

I ask because I used to work for a Family Law attorney and saw a lot of people filling out divorce papers and just mailing them to the other party. Those papers were useless. A signed proof of delivery was necessary for the Divorce papers to be legal(in our state, a person had to serve them and sign a Proof of Service).

Before panicking, it's good to make sure it isn't a scare tactic.

It's really important to know our own limits.  We can take the traits of BPD into consideration, sure, but there comes a point when doing so just doesn't cut it, when those traits are wreaking havoc on our lives, going against the values we hold near and dear.

Your wife has done a lot of questionable things.  Many have been pointing in this direction.  Whether she's using a scare tactic - power play, or if these divorce papers are legit, she's putting it out there that the way things are NOW don't work for her.  Believe her.

It's been said numerous times that pwBPD (and people in general), really need to feel the consequences of their actions in order for change to take place.  Growth comes from some of the deepest darkest places within us.

There's no doubt you've tried to salvage this marriage and are trying to live an honest life, holding true to your values, Maroon   No doubt.  I'm just wondering if *this* marriage and the hurtful ways of hers within it, is worth salvaging?  


I agree.  What forward looks like is anybody's guess... . I'm guessing to move forward with her, it's going to need her to show some serious steps in moving it forward for the better, also.

I'd move out of the way, giving her the floor; do your thing, baby!  Show me what you're made of and I'll believe you.  I'm doing my thing over here, taking really good care of myself.

Sometimes things need to be broken, like really bad habits.

   

     Good morning everyone!  Thanks for your kind thoughts.  I'm doing very well today.  I have an amazing peace that the Lord has given me and not scared, worried or down this morning.  I went through some emotion last night but still had peace.  This is huge for me and I'm actually blessed by it.  I almost feel relieved as this isn't "Limbo Land" anymore.  This is a step forward and I'm glad.  It doesn't necessarily mean our r/s is over, but it is a step forward.  I also know that this is her choice and she has to live with it.  I have done everything I know to do to save the marriage, love her through her issues, and I can hold my head high without regret.  There will come a day where I know she will have clarity over her life, will regret her decisions, and if I am still here, then so be it.  Whether that is during these proceedings or after, doesn't matter.  I will continue to wear my wedding ring until final, and at that point, I will move forward.  I will continue to love her and the children and am going to do some praying over the next several days about what to do regarding them.  As far as my children, I am going to wait a bit to say anything.  My children will have a hard time with this because they have known her pretty much their whole life and really close to her and the children.  Our daughters have been best friends even before we were married.  My son adores her and so I'm going to wait a couple of weeks before I involve them.   

     Let me answer a question a few of you had.  It was legit papers (filed with the courts and timestamped) from an attorney's office with a "waiver of service" form attached that I have to return or they will "serve me" after 15 days.




I do believe her... .I believe in her mind she has convinced herself this is the "easy way out", even if it is losing the man she loves and that loves her and her children.  She won't deal with herself and why I can walk away with my head held high because no matter what, she won't have a healthy r/s with anyone until those are dealt with. 




Took me a couple of times re-reading this to finally get what you were saying.  This marriage I am letting go believing that she will see her choices, unhealthiness and get help.  I will use the words of Yoda here, "Clouds everything, her illness does." 




So true, and why I will not change who I am, how I react or how I treat them.  She needs to see strength in me.  In the past because of my issues, I would have puddled.  Not this time.  Also, I've realized in the last nine months what unconditional, true love is.  It's the hardest thing I have ever done, but I still say she and my kids are worth it.   

Maroon,

Please head over to legal... .and start a thread there.  I'm very much like Grey... .in that I have a general idea about divorce... .but that is from buddies of mine... .and also from some reading I've done.  However... .it varies by state.

Please get these papers and the method of delivery (whether your signed... .etc etc) to your L ASAP.  Question 1... .are the papers valid.

IMO... you don't say anything to your wife until you verify that.  If they are not valid... .not sure it is worth mentioning to her.  Here is the thing... .there is so much she has done that is not "right"... . I wouldn't allow her to half a$$ a divorce process either.  

If this is what she wants... .she needs to own it... .do it right... .not expect you to "help" her.

Hang in there!

So... .you have not been properly served.  They are essentially asking you to help them make this easier.

What I know of you... .and your values is that you want to save the marriage.  I would not do any paperwork that makes the legal process easier on her or her legal team. 

Of course... .this is your choice.

Hang in there!

FF

I started a thread there.  It's hard because they don't know your back story... .

She does need to own it.


Not sure I want to fight as this may be a way for her to continue that push/pull.  Haven't made a final decision yet, but leaning toward not fighting at all, but protecting myself for sure.  Wanting to show strength and she needs to see that in me... .I truly think she thinks I will give in to "not get a divorce"... .

The most interesting question is... .what does this change?

You will have to decide how much you want to ease the legal process, or obstruct the legal process. (For example, waiting for her to get you served, vs. signing the waiver of service)

Do you still intend to take care of her kids when she goes away?

If I recall correctly, not very long ago you had a really good time with her, were feeling really close, and (I might not recall correctly) even had sex with her. Would you do the same if she invited you over this weekend?

However things go... .I'm glad you found some peace!

I don't know what this changes.  I know that she hasn't mentioned celebrating my son's birthday like we planned this weekend.  I'm not sure what I would do if she invited me over.  I need to think about that.  Would I want to go and spend time with them, sure.  I'm not sure what she will do about the kids now when she goes out of town. 

Hi, FD here, you'll usually find me over on the Family Law board.  I agree, long past time to start posting there.  Sadly.

I did very well in high school Plane Geometry, apparently I handled the structure and patterns well, I was the school's rep to the state capital for state competitions, though many years ago.  So I'll frame my thoughts as 'theorums', building on each other.

• This was a troubled marriage from the start.



• Despite your best efforts, even informed efforts as a member here getting educated about the issues and better skills, you could not make the marriage functional and healthy.



• Your spouse, more or less, has not improved substantively over the years.



• The initial 'honeymoon' phase has faded and you're perceived differently now.



• She is unlikely to change in the future, "the best predictor of the future is the past".



• Filing for divorce brought the relationship into new territory, it will be hard or impossible to go back to the way things were.
  
  Illustration... .she and you were living on a roller coaster for years.  Every time it came into the station and calmed down, you stayed on and the cycle resumed over and over.  The coaster has just come into the station and this time she's opened the door and told you to get off.  The ride was getting sickening so the wise thing is to go ahead and get off - in the station and not mid-ride.



• So your 'staying' is now to be seen as 'staying for now', accept that.



• Facing court now, understand well this truism... .The one behaving poorly seldom has consequences and the one behaving well seldom gets credit.



• So your focus now must be (1) your own welfare and (2) your children's welfare.  As much as you started the marriage with love, the unwinding sadly has to be done in a businesslike way with care to avoid emotions and inclinations that would have you sabotaging yourself or your parenting.  You may be able to preserve your contact with her children, but don't count on it.



• Do get legal representation.  And you need more lawyering than a forms filer or hand holder.  Your children are yours and hers are hers, so there shouldn't be custody issues.  Even so, she can still make it horrendously difficult with false allegations, demanding more than her share of marital assets, refusing her share of the marital debts, etc.



• Tread carefully in this new environment until you get a sense of how she will behave.  Be informed. Be prepared.  Be protected.  Be aware.  Beware.

 

One of the things that pwBPD traits do... .is do all kinds of things to confuse the process... .and try to take "nons" off their game.

Maroon,

I'll go back to my earlier comments.  You have become an incredibly insightful... .centered... and thoughtful person.  You have gotten to know yourself and your values.  You are expressing those values in a healthy way. 

Why let someone else dictate how you express your values.  Don't "stoop" to their level.  So... .try to keep your commitments and act out your values... .as best you can.  Realizing... .that there are limits that can be placed by others.

Don't "react" to those limits.

IMO

Continue with birthday plans... .as before.  That is your part.  You wife has her part... .she may... .or may not show up. 

Continue with plans to keep kids.  Your values haven't changed... .  You still love them and want to spend time... so... .do it.  That is your part. 

Your wife can change her part.  That will be frustrating if it happens.  You need to think this through ahead of time... .so you can have a healthy reaction to this... .while at same time hoping that you don't have to use this.

The great thing about these forums... .is that people come at things... .from so many different angles.

Grey's point... .is one I don't think I would have expressed... ."not sure if it changes anything... "  (So... .live out your values... .where you have the power to do so... )

FF

That's an outstanding, "legal-board" type summary from ForeverDad, in my opinion.

Can you consult with an attorney in your jurisdiction first, before deciding not to respond to the waiver of service documents? It would be typical of family law attorneys in my jurisdiction to recommend that you sign, for everyone's safety. (Maybe there are some exceptions I've never heard of.)

FF--I have no doubt that this will change things.

Maroon, time for you to THINK about what changes are possible, and how they line up with your values and desires. I see that you are doing this. It will take some time, and likely evolve over time as well.

From all he's said, I don't expect it to change the way he wants to be a father to his wife's children, or that he wants to maintain the connection his wife has to his children.

It is possible to have a civil (even friendly) co-parenting relationship, with NO romantic involvement. ('Tho not easy/likely with a pwBPD)

One of the more interesting questions is whether you are going to work on your relationship with your wife with an eye toward reconciliation... .or with a focus on the kids, knowing that if you are able to be civil/friendly/supportive toward her, you will have more access to the kids. This question isn't a black-and-white yes/no question either... .you get to pick your actions from an entire spectrum.

Your wife's black and white thinking will limit the available actions, but it doesn't have to control your intentions.

This is a less dramatic way of serving someone, rather than the embarrassment of using a process server (or an acquaintance who signs a paper which says that they acted as a process server). It is legitimate. I served my Ex custody papers in this manner.

The questions are: Do you fight this? Can you fight this up and until they do send a process server after you? It looks like she's retained an attorney. It might be good to do a consult with one of your own to explore your options, and starting a thread on Legal is a good idea.

The doubt is: Could this be a last-ditch Waifish effort to have you emphatically say, "no, I don't want to get divorced, I want our marriage to work." It is very hard to say at this point. Her lawyering up seems to indicate, "no."

Good question... .further nuance.  What is the difference in fighting it... .and participating in it. 


KateCat,

Very interesting... .I wonder what kind of safety they are talking about?  Might be a better discussion to continue more in depth over on legal.

Ultimately... .all the advice is pointing towards asking a lawyer in this jurisdiction.

Both emotional and physical safety, I think, formflier.

I have probably seen the more dramatic end of this, having had to serve family-law related papers on guys in jail, or at the courthouse with their attorneys for other matters. Or professional sports guys who can go to great lengths not to get more paternity papers to add to their complicated lives.

I think it's the "hide and seek" aspect of process service that is not so good. You don't want to be hiding out at home; you don't want to be served at your workplace; you don't want to have things escalate to service by the civil sheriff. It's the "gotcha!" thing that will happen.

A lawyer will have good ideas as to how to set a safe and practical "tone" for the proceedings, right from the beginning, I think.

The way Turkish did things is often considered "best practice."

I would love to work on our r/s with an eye toward reconciliation, but that requires her to be involved.


You're right, it doesn't have to control mine.  My wife texted me and asked me a question about taxes and I answered and asked for my shorts and shampoo I left at her house two weeks ago not mentioning the papers at all.  When I answered her question, she tried to cut me down based on my answer and I didn't respond or take the bait.


I expect this.  See my previous comment on GK's post regarding the text exchange earlier with my wife.


I am still going to do my sons birthday thing and still plan to keep the kids.  I am curious to see if it still happens.


She's definitely not a waif, but more of a queen/witch.  But I do question her motive in that she could be doing this to get me to grovel and beg and plead and give her control back... .

I'm trying to handle this in a very non-dramatic, giving her room to live this choice and still showing unconditional love throughout.  

Domestic court will make no effort to fix the marriage.  It's there to handle, among other things, the unwinding of the relationship and managing the aftermath.  If one of you wants to stay married, no court will stop a divorce.  Yes, it can be delayed but it will happen.

I guess what you're wondering is whether this is her emotion of the moment (emotions=facts) or a real change from the past push/pull.  My impression is that once something is filed and notice given, a line has been crossed for most people, unlikely to be undone.  If you try too hard to get her back, she could allege you're a controller.  After all, she is an adult and if she wants a divorce then she has a right as an adult to get divorced.  (Hmm, do you really want someone back who will go so far as to file for divorce and could do it again and again?)  My experience in the months after we first separated... .


Unwinding the marriage may be your new reality so be prepared to accept that.

This is my second marriage, so I'm not new to this process.  I know there is nothing I can do to stop it.  I'm definitely not going to control her at all.  I will still be who I am.  I told her if she ever filed I would not stand in her way.  I'm just saying that I'm not going to fight and im going to have very little communication with her, and absolutely no negative communication.  She is dysregulated right now.  I have a feeling that in a few days or weeks, she will start to feel differently, and if she doesn't, that's ok too.

I guess my question is, do you have a lawyer?  What does "not going to fight" mean?  Not going to fight the divorce?  Not going to fight with her about getting a divorce?

Okay, guess I have more than one question.

It's unfortunate it's come to this, Maroon.


Does asking for your shorts and shampoo tell her anything indirectly?

Try to sit with this Maroon, don't give her any ammo.  I realize it's hard times right now

No, I don't have one yet.  Will have to get one early next week I guess.  As far as asking for my shorts, I asked for them like 4 days ago if I left them there and she didn't respond.  So I don't think it told her anything.  I will sit with this.  Can't make them bring them to me.  As far as fighting, it means fighting.  I don't know what fighting a divorce really does because it is inevitable and since this is a no fault state, she can do what she wants.  Part of not fighting means to let her live this choice.  She thinks it will break me.  She thinks I will grovel when I get the papers.  I won't either way and won't let her see that it bothers me, even if it does.  I will act nonchalant about it because I think that will make more of an impact to her.  I told her the other day that I ordered a replacement glove for our son and she said thank you.  I received it today and will give it to her tomorrow at the game.  I will continue to do what is right, even if she doesn't. 

As far as her thinking you will break and grovel... .Have you considered it not being her intention at all, to make you do that?  That she really does want to divorce?

Does "acting nonchalant" mean you're going to pretend you haven't received divorce papers?  If so, what is "right" about that?  Not judging, curious... .?

 

I think there is a third nuance ... .that is more in line with what I understand (may be wrong... .please clarify Maroon)

I see... .fight the divorce... .help the divorce move along quickly... .not participate in the divorce (knowing it will happen)

Fighting... .that would be delaying actions... .but knowing that it will eventually happen.

Helping it along.  Signing things quickly... .responding quickly... .basically being helpful.

Not participating... .taking no part in an action that helps the process along.  Probably add a nuance that you do this until a L tells you it puts you at a disadvantage... or will cost you money.

Are there other options?

Thoughts?

So after practice, my wife asks my kids and I to join them for dinner... .I agreed but huh?  As far as nonchalant, I mean not showing it bothers me or affecting me... .

So the 8 of us went to dinner and had a great time!  You would have never thought anything regarding a divorce or that she filed and the girls wanted to spend the night together at her house and we decided they would tomorrow night.  Kind of confusing but going with it and acting like everything is cool.  Strange... .

It's great that you all had a good time. It sounds like she's compartmentalizing. Enjoy it, build from it if you can, no matter how things progress. Staying or going, reducing conflict helps everybody.

Just pondering here... .  Is the lack of honest to goodness communication what gets a lot of us into deep cycles of conflict with our partners (family members, friends... ) to begin with?  So instead of opening up and sharing what's within us, asking questions, truly listening to our loved ones, bypassing a lot of the confusion we find ourselves grappling with...   We're instead connecting to what we think the other might be thinking and feeling, then basing our interactions off of that?  Thereby, not living authentically.  Not being authentic.  Not letting others really know us.  Hiding behind our fears.  Trying to control an outcome.


I absolutely agree with this.  Where I draw the line is when reducing conflict leaves me feeling conflicted and confused, i.e., walking on eggshells, placating... .then feeling victimized.

 

Phoebes,

Might be a little bit of a ramble... .or thinking outloud here... .

Wonderful point... .and from your point of view... .from point of view of doing what's best for "us"... .very strong point.

From the point of view of a healthy r/s... and keeping a r/s health... .again... I think phoebes is right on point.

From point of view of an unhealthy r/s... .and doing the best for that r/s "right now"... .there are some questions.

I don't see "stuffing it"  (term I see a lot here... but don't use myself much)... .while working on other things as necessarily unhealthy.

I see "stuffing it" in context of focusing on other things... .as part of a strategy... .to be an ok thing to do.

My gut says that part of Maroons confusion... .or mine... .if I was in this situation... .is that he is scratching his head and wondering... .does my strategy still apply.  Always a fabulous questions to ask.

If there is any chance that the papers are a provocation... .a "divorce threat" taken to the next level... .I think his strategy is sound.

If she is serious about divorce... .then this strategy still could be ok... .up until the point it puts him at a legal or financial disadvantage.  Then he has serious choices to make.  Need an L here.

Ok... .end of ramble... .anyone want to help me sort out all of those statements I made... .go ahead.  I'm barely into my first cup of coffee... .  jeeesh...

*mod*

This thread has reached its page limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are welcome to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thank your for understanding... .