New Beginnings & Boundaries 4...

[formflier]

  Sorry.  Just putting all my thoughts down. 

Nothing at all to apologize for.

You are a man that stood for his values and his convictions.  You've done the right thing... .don't ever doubt that.

Sometimes... .standing for your values is a lonely place.  If it was easy... .there would be more men around with the good solid values that you are living out.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

  I know the feeling. Sometimes I don't believe my wife is done with our marriage either... .and my wife is in a lot better shape than yours--she doesn't flip between painting me black and painting me white like yours does.

I'm really ignorant on the actual divorce process--did you get something that already had the legal process started? Or did you get something which stated that she wanted a divorce and something about how to do the disposition of everything?

[OffRoad]

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.  :'(

I have the same question formflier asked:

Did the papers have a delivery receipt or a way that there is confirmation that you got the papers?

I ask because I used to work for a Family Law attorney and saw a lot of people filling out divorce papers and just mailing them to the other party. Those papers were useless. A signed proof of delivery was necessary for the Divorce papers to be legal(in our state, a person had to serve them and sign a Proof of Service).

Before panicking, it's good to make sure it isn't a scare tactic.

[123Phoebe]

It's really important to know our own limits.  We can take the traits of BPD into consideration, sure, but there comes a point when doing so just doesn't cut it, when those traits are wreaking havoc on our lives, going against the values we hold near and dear.

Your wife has done a lot of questionable things.  Many have been pointing in this direction.  Whether she's using a scare tactic - power play, or if these divorce papers are legit, she's putting it out there that the way things are NOW don't work for her.  Believe her.

It's been said numerous times that pwBPD (and people in general), really need to feel the consequences of their actions in order for change to take place.  Growth comes from some of the deepest darkest places within us.

There's no doubt you've tried to salvage this marriage and are trying to live an honest life, holding true to your values, Maroon   No doubt.  I'm just wondering if *this* marriage and the hurtful ways of hers within it, is worth salvaging?  

New beginnings & boundaries is where it's at!

The old way was bull.

Yeah, I think you can only go forward now. That's really the only thing that is "good" about this.  :'(

I agree.  What forward looks like is anybody's guess... . I'm guessing to move forward with her, it's going to need her to show some serious steps in moving it forward for the better, also.

I'd move out of the way, giving her the floor; do your thing, baby!  Show me what you're made of and I'll believe you.  I'm doing my thing over here, taking really good care of myself.

Sometimes things need to be broken, like really bad habits.

   

[MaroonLiquid]

     Good morning everyone!  Thanks for your kind thoughts.  I'm doing very well today.  I have an amazing peace that the Lord has given me and not scared, worried or down this morning.  I went through some emotion last night but still had peace.  This is huge for me and I'm actually blessed by it.  I almost feel relieved as this isn't "Limbo Land" anymore.  This is a step forward and I'm glad.  It doesn't necessarily mean our r/s is over, but it is a step forward.  I also know that this is her choice and she has to live with it.  I have done everything I know to do to save the marriage, love her through her issues, and I can hold my head high without regret.  There will come a day where I know she will have clarity over her life, will regret her decisions, and if I am still here, then so be it.  Whether that is during these proceedings or after, doesn't matter.  I will continue to wear my wedding ring until final, and at that point, I will move forward.  I will continue to love her and the children and am going to do some praying over the next several days about what to do regarding them.  As far as my children, I am going to wait a bit to say anything.  My children will have a hard time with this because they have known her pretty much their whole life and really close to her and the children.  Our daughters have been best friends even before we were married.  My son adores her and so I'm going to wait a couple of weeks before I involve them.   

     Let me answer a question a few of you had.  It was legit papers (filed with the courts and timestamped) from an attorney's office with a "waiver of service" form attached that I have to return or they will "serve me" after 15 days.

It's really important to know our own limits.  We can take the traits of BPD into consideration, sure, but there comes a point when doing so just doesn't cut it, when those traits are wreaking havoc on our lives, going against the values we hold near and dear.

Your wife has done a lot of questionable things.  Many have been pointing in this direction.  Whether she's using a scare tactic - power play, or if these divorce papers are legit, she's putting it out there that the way things are NOW don't work for her.  Believe her.

I do believe her... .I believe in her mind she has convinced herself this is the "easy way out", even if it is losing the man she loves and that loves her and her children.  She won't deal with herself and why I can walk away with my head held high because no matter what, she won't have a healthy r/s with anyone until those are dealt with. 

It's been said numerous times that pwBPD (and people in general), really need to feel the consequences of their actions in order for change to take place.  Growth comes from some of the deepest darkest places within us.

There's no doubt you've tried to salvage this marriage and are trying to live an honest life, holding true to your values, Maroon   No doubt.  I'm just wondering if *this* marriage and the hurtful ways of hers within it, is worth salvaging?

Took me a couple of times re-reading this to finally get what you were saying.  This marriage I am letting go believing that she will see her choices, unhealthiness and get help.  I will use the words of Yoda here, "Clouds everything, her illness does." 

New beginnings & boundaries is where it's at!

The old way was bull.

Yeah, I think you can only go forward now. That's really the only thing that is "good" about this.  :'(

I agree.  What forward looks like is anybody's guess... .  I'm guessing to move forward with her, it's going to need her to show some serious steps in moving it forward for the better, also.

I'd move out of the way, giving her the floor; do your thing, baby!  Show me what you're made of and I'll believe you.  I'm doing my thing over here, taking really good care of myself.

Sometimes things need to be broken, like really bad habits.

  

So true, and why I will not change who I am, how I react or how I treat them.  She needs to see strength in me.  In the past because of my issues, I would have puddled.  Not this time.  Also, I've realized in the last nine months what unconditional, true love is.  It's the hardest thing I have ever done, but I still say she and my kids are worth it.   

[formflier]

Before panicking, it's good to make sure it isn't a scare tactic.

Maroon,

Please head over to legal... .and start a thread there.  I'm very much like Grey... .in that I have a general idea about divorce... .but that is from buddies of mine... .and also from some reading I've done.  However... .it varies by state.

Please get these papers and the method of delivery (whether your signed... .etc etc) to your L ASAP.  Question 1... .are the papers valid.

IMO... you don't say anything to your wife until you verify that.  If they are not valid... .not sure it is worth mentioning to her.  Here is the thing... .there is so much she has done that is not "right"... . I wouldn't allow her to half a$$ a divorce process either.  

If this is what she wants... .she needs to own it... .do it right... .not expect you to "help" her.

Hang in there!

[formflier]

     Let me answer a question a few of you had.  It was legit papers (filed with the courts and timestamped) from an attorney's office with a "waiver of service" form attached that I have to return or they will "serve me" after 15 days.

So... .you have not been properly served.  They are essentially asking you to help them make this easier.

What I know of you... .and your values is that you want to save the marriage.  I would not do any paperwork that makes the legal process easier on her or her legal team. 

Of course... .this is your choice.

Hang in there!

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

Before panicking, it's good to make sure it isn't a scare tactic.

Maroon,

Please head over to legal... .and start a thread there.  I'm very much like Grey... .in that I have a general idea about divorce... .but that is from buddies of mine... .and also from some reading I've done.  However... .it varies by state.

Please get these papers and the method of delivery (whether your signed... .etc etc) to your L ASAP.  Question 1... .are the papers valid.

IMO... you don't say anything to your wife until you verify that.  If they are not valid... .not sure it is worth mentioning to her.  Here is the thing... .there is so much she has done that is not "right"... . I wouldn't allow her to half a$$ a divorce process either.  

If this is what she wants... .she needs to own it... .do it right... .not expect you to "help" her.

Hang in there!

I started a thread there.  It's hard because they don't know your back story... .

She does need to own it.

    Let me answer a question a few of you had.  It was legit papers (filed with the courts and timestamped) from an attorney's office with a "waiver of service" form attached that I have to return or they will "serve me" after 15 days.

So... .you have not been properly served.  They are essentially asking you to help them make this easier.

What I know of you... .and your values is that you want to save the marriage.  I would not do any paperwork that makes the legal process easier on her or her legal team.  

Of course... .this is your choice.

Hang in there!

FF

Not sure I want to fight as this may be a way for her to continue that push/pull.  Haven't made a final decision yet, but leaning toward not fighting at all, but protecting myself for sure.  Wanting to show strength and she needs to see that in me... .I truly think she thinks I will give in to "not get a divorce"... .

[Grey Kitty]

The most interesting question is... .what does this change?

You will have to decide how much you want to ease the legal process, or obstruct the legal process. (For example, waiting for her to get you served, vs. signing the waiver of service)

Do you still intend to take care of her kids when she goes away?

If I recall correctly, not very long ago you had a really good time with her, were feeling really close, and (I might not recall correctly) even had sex with her. Would you do the same if she invited you over this weekend?

However things go... .I'm glad you found some peace!

[MaroonLiquid]

The most interesting question is... .what does this change?

You will have to decide how much you want to ease the legal process, or obstruct the legal process. (For example, waiting for her to get you served, vs. signing the waiver of service)

Do you still intend to take care of her kids when she goes away?

If I recall correctly, not very long ago you had a really good time with her, were feeling really close, and (I might not recall correctly) even had sex with her. Would you do the same if she invited you over this weekend?

However things go... .I'm glad you found some peace!

I don't know what this changes.  I know that she hasn't mentioned celebrating my son's birthday like we planned this weekend.  I'm not sure what I would do if she invited me over.  I need to think about that.  Would I want to go and spend time with them, sure.  I'm not sure what she will do about the kids now when she goes out of town. 

[ForeverDad]

Hi, FD here, you'll usually find me over on the Family Law board.  I agree, long past time to start posting there.  Sadly.

I did very well in high school Plane Geometry, apparently I handled the structure and patterns well, I was the school's rep to the state capital for state competitions, though many years ago.  So I'll frame my thoughts as 'theorums', building on each other.

• This was a troubled marriage from the start.



• Despite your best efforts, even informed efforts as a member here getting educated about the issues and better skills, you could not make the marriage functional and healthy.



• Your spouse, more or less, has not improved substantively over the years.



• The initial 'honeymoon' phase has faded and you're perceived differently now.



• She is unlikely to change in the future, "the best predictor of the future is the past".



• Filing for divorce brought the relationship into new territory, it will be hard or impossible to go back to the way things were.
  
  Illustration... .she and you were living on a roller coaster for years.  Every time it came into the station and calmed down, you stayed on and the cycle resumed over and over.  The coaster has just come into the station and this time she's opened the door and told you to get off.  The ride was getting sickening so the wise thing is to go ahead and get off - in the station and not mid-ride.



• So your 'staying' is now to be seen as 'staying for now', accept that.



• Facing court now, understand well this truism... .The one behaving poorly seldom has consequences and the one behaving well seldom gets credit.



• So your focus now must be (1) your own welfare and (2) your children's welfare.  As much as you started the marriage with love, the unwinding sadly has to be done in a businesslike way with care to avoid emotions and inclinations that would have you sabotaging yourself or your parenting.  You may be able to preserve your contact with her children, but don't count on it.



• Do get legal representation.  And you need more lawyering than a forms filer or hand holder.  Your children are yours and hers are hers, so there shouldn't be custody issues.  Even so, she can still make it horrendously difficult with false allegations, demanding more than her share of marital assets, refusing her share of the marital debts, etc.



• Tread carefully in this new environment until you get a sense of how she will behave.  Be informed. Be prepared.  Be protected.  Be aware.  Beware.

[formflier]

 

One of the things that pwBPD traits do... .is do all kinds of things to confuse the process... .and try to take "nons" off their game.

Maroon,

I'll go back to my earlier comments.  You have become an incredibly insightful... .centered... and thoughtful person.  You have gotten to know yourself and your values.  You are expressing those values in a healthy way. 

Why let someone else dictate how you express your values.  Don't "stoop" to their level.  So... .try to keep your commitments and act out your values... .as best you can.  Realizing... .that there are limits that can be placed by others.

Don't "react" to those limits.

IMO

Continue with birthday plans... .as before.  That is your part.  You wife has her part... .she may... .or may not show up. 

Continue with plans to keep kids.  Your values haven't changed... .  You still love them and want to spend time... so... .do it.  That is your part. 

Your wife can change her part.  That will be frustrating if it happens.  You need to think this through ahead of time... .so you can have a healthy reaction to this... .while at same time hoping that you don't have to use this.

The great thing about these forums... .is that people come at things... .from so many different angles.

Grey's point... .is one I don't think I would have expressed... ."not sure if it changes anything... "  (So... .live out your values... .where you have the power to do so... )

FF

[KateCat]

That's an outstanding, "legal-board" type summary from ForeverDad, in my opinion.

Can you consult with an attorney in your jurisdiction first, before deciding not to respond to the waiver of service documents? It would be typical of family law attorneys in my jurisdiction to recommend that you sign, for everyone's safety. (Maybe there are some exceptions I've never heard of.)

[Grey Kitty]

FF--I have no doubt that this will change things.

Maroon, time for you to THINK about what changes are possible, and how they line up with your values and desires. I see that you are doing this. It will take some time, and likely evolve over time as well.

From all he's said, I don't expect it to change the way he wants to be a father to his wife's children, or that he wants to maintain the connection his wife has to his children.

It is possible to have a civil (even friendly) co-parenting relationship, with NO romantic involvement. ('Tho not easy/likely with a pwBPD)

One of the more interesting questions is whether you are going to work on your relationship with your wife with an eye toward reconciliation... .or with a focus on the kids, knowing that if you are able to be civil/friendly/supportive toward her, you will have more access to the kids. This question isn't a black-and-white yes/no question either... .you get to pick your actions from an entire spectrum.

Your wife's black and white thinking will limit the available actions, but it doesn't have to control your intentions.

[Turkish]

    Let me answer a question a few of you had.  It was legit papers (filed with the courts and timestamped) from an attorney's office with a "waiver of service" form attached that I have to return or they will "serve me" after 15 days.

This is a less dramatic way of serving someone, rather than the embarrassment of using a process server (or an acquaintance who signs a paper which says that they acted as a process server). It is legitimate. I served my Ex custody papers in this manner.

The questions are: Do you fight this? Can you fight this up and until they do send a process server after you? It looks like she's retained an attorney. It might be good to do a consult with one of your own to explore your options, and starting a thread on Legal is a good idea.

The doubt is: Could this be a last-ditch Waifish effort to have you emphatically say, "no, I don't want to get divorced, I want our marriage to work." It is very hard to say at this point. Her lawyering up seems to indicate, "no."

[formflier]

[

The questions are: Do you fight this? Can you fight this up and until they do send a process server after you? 

Good question... .further nuance.  What is the difference in fighting it... .and participating in it. 

It would be typical of family law attorneys in my jurisdiction to recommend that you sign, for everyone's safety. (Maybe there are some exceptions I've never heard of.)

KateCat,

Very interesting... .I wonder what kind of safety they are talking about?  Might be a better discussion to continue more in depth over on legal.

Ultimately... .all the advice is pointing towards asking a lawyer in this jurisdiction.

[KateCat]

Both emotional and physical safety, I think, formflier.

I have probably seen the more dramatic end of this, having had to serve family-law related papers on guys in jail, or at the courthouse with their attorneys for other matters. Or professional sports guys who can go to great lengths not to get more paternity papers to add to their complicated lives.

I think it's the "hide and seek" aspect of process service that is not so good. You don't want to be hiding out at home; you don't want to be served at your workplace; you don't want to have things escalate to service by the civil sheriff. It's the "gotcha!" thing that will happen.

A lawyer will have good ideas as to how to set a safe and practical "tone" for the proceedings, right from the beginning, I think.

The way Turkish did things is often considered "best practice."

[MaroonLiquid]

One of the more interesting questions is whether you are going to work on your relationship with your wife with an eye toward reconciliation... .or with a focus on the kids, knowing that if you are able to be civil/friendly/supportive toward her, you will have more access to the kids. This question isn't a black-and-white yes/no question either... .you get to pick your actions from an entire spectrum.

I would love to work on our r/s with an eye toward reconciliation, but that requires her to be involved.

Your wife's black and white thinking will limit the available actions, but it doesn't have to control your intentions.

You're right, it doesn't have to control mine.  My wife texted me and asked me a question about taxes and I answered and asked for my shorts and shampoo I left at her house two weeks ago not mentioning the papers at all.  When I answered her question, she tried to cut me down based on my answer and I didn't respond or take the bait.

One of the things that pwBPD traits do... .is do all kinds of things to confuse the process... .and try to take "nons" off their game.

Maroon,

I'll go back to my earlier comments.  You have become an incredibly insightful... .centered... and thoughtful person.  You have gotten to know yourself and your values.  You are expressing those values in a healthy way.  

Why let someone else dictate how you express your values.  :)on't "stoop" to their level.  So... .try to keep your commitments and act out your values... .as best you can.  Realizing... .that there are limits that can be placed by others.

Don't "react" to those limits.

I expect this.  See my previous comment on GK's post regarding the text exchange earlier with my wife.

IMO

Continue with birthday plans... .as before.  That is your part.  You wife has her part... .she may... .or may not show up.  

Continue with plans to keep kids.  Your values haven't changed... . You still love them and want to spend time... so... .do it.  That is your part.  

Your wife can change her part.  That will be frustrating if it happens.  You need to think this through ahead of time... .so you can have a healthy reaction to this... .while at same time hoping that you don't have to use this.

I am still going to do my sons birthday thing and still plan to keep the kids.  I am curious to see if it still happens.

The doubt is: Could this be a last-ditch Waifish effort to have you emphatically say, "no, I don't want to get divorced, I want our marriage to work." It is very hard to say at this point. Her lawyering up seems to indicate, "no."

She's definitely not a waif, but more of a queen/witch.  But I do question her motive in that she could be doing this to get me to grovel and beg and plead and give her control back... .

I'm trying to handle this in a very non-dramatic, giving her room to live this choice and still showing unconditional love throughout.  

[ForeverDad]

Domestic court will make no effort to fix the marriage.  It's there to handle, among other things, the unwinding of the relationship and managing the aftermath.  If one of you wants to stay married, no court will stop a divorce.  Yes, it can be delayed but it will happen.

I guess what you're wondering is whether this is her emotion of the moment (emotions=facts) or a real change from the past push/pull.  My impression is that once something is filed and notice given, a line has been crossed for most people, unlikely to be undone.  If you try too hard to get her back, she could allege you're a controller.  After all, she is an adult and if she wants a divorce then she has a right as an adult to get divorced.  (Hmm, do you really want someone back who will go so far as to file for divorce and could do it again and again?)  My experience in the months after we first separated... .

... .in court during mutual protection cases, when I testified about her actions and her threats, her attorney asked me if I weighed more than her (of course) wanted to divorce (of course not) then he said I must want to control her.  Huh?  How could he ever say that of me?  I just said no.  I should have replied (remember this, guys, in your own testimonies and cross-examinations) our child is smaller than both of us, should our child fear us because we're bigger?  Anyway, he then asked if I wanted her back home that night, I guess still pursuing that 'controlling husband' strategy.  Fortunately, I said, No, not the way she is.

Unwinding the marriage may be your new reality so be prepared to accept that.

[MaroonLiquid]

Domestic court will make no effort to fix the marriage.  It's there to handle, among other things, the unwinding of the relationship and managing the aftermath.  If one of you wants to stay married, no court will stop a divorce.  Yes, it can be delayed but it will happen.

I guess what you're wondering is whether this is her emotion of the moment (emotions=facts) or a real change from the past push/pull.  My impression is that once something is filed and notice given, a line has been crossed for most people, unlikely to be undone.  If you try too hard to get her back, she could allege you're a controller.  After all, she is an adult and if she wants a divorce then she has a right as an adult to get divorced.  (Hmm, do you really want someone back who will go so far as to file for divorce and could do it again and again?)  My experience in the months after we first separated... .

... .in court during mutual protection cases, when I testified about her actions and her threats, her attorney asked me if I weighed more than her (of course) wanted to divorce (of course not) then he said I must want to control her.  Huh?  How could he ever say that of me?  I just said no.  I should have replied (remember this, guys, in your own testimonies and cross-examinations) our child is smaller than both of us, should our child fear us because we're bigger?  Anyway, he then asked if I wanted her back home that night, I guess still pursuing that 'controlling husband' strategy.  Fortunately, I said, No, not the way she is.

Unwinding the marriage may be your new reality so be prepared to accept that.

This is my second marriage, so I'm not new to this process.  I know there is nothing I can do to stop it.  I'm definitely not going to control her at all.  I will still be who I am.  I told her if she ever filed I would not stand in her way.  I'm just saying that I'm not going to fight and im going to have very little communication with her, and absolutely no negative communication.  She is dysregulated right now.  I have a feeling that in a few days or weeks, she will start to feel differently, and if she doesn't, that's ok too.

[123Phoebe]

I guess my question is, do you have a lawyer?  What does "not going to fight" mean?  Not going to fight the divorce?  Not going to fight with her about getting a divorce?

Okay, guess I have more than one question.

It's unfortunate it's come to this, Maroon.

My wife texted me and asked me a question about taxes and I answered and asked for my shorts and shampoo I left at her house two weeks ago not mentioning the papers at all.  When I answered her question, she tried to cut me down based on my answer and I didn't respond or take the bait.

Does asking for your shorts and shampoo tell her anything indirectly?

Try to sit with this Maroon, don't give her any ammo.  I realize it's hard times right now

[MaroonLiquid]

I guess my question is, do you have a lawyer?  What does "not going to fight" mean?  Not going to fight the divorce?  Not going to fight with her about getting a divorce?

Okay, guess I have more than one question.

It's unfortunate it's come to this, Maroon.

My wife texted me and asked me a question about taxes and I answered and asked for my shorts and shampoo I left at her house two weeks ago not mentioning the papers at all.  When I answered her question, she tried to cut me down based on my answer and I didn't respond or take the bait.

Does asking for your shorts and shampoo tell her anything indirectly?

Try to sit with this Maroon, don't give her any ammo.  I realize it's hard times right now

No, I don't have one yet.  Will have to get one early next week I guess.  As far as asking for my shorts, I asked for them like 4 days ago if I left them there and she didn't respond.  So I don't think it told her anything.  I will sit with this.  Can't make them bring them to me.  As far as fighting, it means fighting.  I don't know what fighting a divorce really does because it is inevitable and since this is a no fault state, she can do what she wants.  Part of not fighting means to let her live this choice.  She thinks it will break me.  She thinks I will grovel when I get the papers.  I won't either way and won't let her see that it bothers me, even if it does.  I will act nonchalant about it because I think that will make more of an impact to her.  I told her the other day that I ordered a replacement glove for our son and she said thank you.  I received it today and will give it to her tomorrow at the game.  I will continue to do what is right, even if she doesn't. 

[123Phoebe]

Part of not fighting means to let her live this choice.  She thinks it will break me.  She thinks I will grovel when I get the papers.  I won't either way and won't let her see that it bothers me, even if it does.  I will act nonchalant about it because I think that will make more of an impact to her.  I told her the other day that I ordered a replacement glove for our son and she said thank you.  I received it today and will give it to her tomorrow at the game.  I will continue to do what is right, even if she doesn't. 

As far as her thinking you will break and grovel... .Have you considered it not being her intention at all, to make you do that?  That she really does want to divorce?

Does "acting nonchalant" mean you're going to pretend you haven't received divorce papers?  If so, what is "right" about that?  Not judging, curious... .?

[formflier]

 

I think there is a third nuance ... .that is more in line with what I understand (may be wrong... .please clarify Maroon)

I see... .fight the divorce... .help the divorce move along quickly... .not participate in the divorce (knowing it will happen)

Fighting... .that would be delaying actions... .but knowing that it will eventually happen.

Helping it along.  Signing things quickly... .responding quickly... .basically being helpful.

Not participating... .taking no part in an action that helps the process along.  Probably add a nuance that you do this until a L tells you it puts you at a disadvantage... or will cost you money.

Are there other options?

Thoughts?

[MaroonLiquid]

So after practice, my wife asks my kids and I to join them for dinner... .I agreed but huh?  As far as nonchalant, I mean not showing it bothers me or affecting me... .

[MaroonLiquid]

So the 8 of us went to dinner and had a great time!  You would have never thought anything regarding a divorce or that she filed and the girls wanted to spend the night together at her house and we decided they would tomorrow night.  Kind of confusing but going with it and acting like everything is cool.  Strange... .

[Turkish]

So the 8 of us went to dinner and had a great time!  You would have never thought anything regarding a divorce or that she filed and the girls wanted to spend the night together at her house and we decided they would tomorrow night.  Kind of confusing but going with it and acting like everything is cool.  Strange... .

It's great that you all had a good time. It sounds like she's compartmentalizing. Enjoy it, build from it if you can, no matter how things progress. Staying or going, reducing conflict helps everybody.

[123Phoebe]

Just pondering here... .  Is the lack of honest to goodness communication what gets a lot of us into deep cycles of conflict with our partners (family members, friends... ) to begin with?  So instead of opening up and sharing what's within us, asking questions, truly listening to our loved ones, bypassing a lot of the confusion we find ourselves grappling with...   We're instead connecting to what we think the other might be thinking and feeling, then basing our interactions off of that?  Thereby, not living authentically.  Not being authentic.  Not letting others really know us.  Hiding behind our fears.  Trying to control an outcome.

Staying or going, reducing conflict helps everybody.

I absolutely agree with this.  Where I draw the line is when reducing conflict leaves me feeling conflicted and confused, i.e., walking on eggshells, placating... .then feeling victimized.

[formflier]

 

Phoebes,

Might be a little bit of a ramble... .or thinking outloud here... .

Wonderful point... .and from your point of view... .from point of view of doing what's best for "us"... .very strong point.

From the point of view of a healthy r/s... and keeping a r/s health... .again... I think phoebes is right on point.

From point of view of an unhealthy r/s... .and doing the best for that r/s "right now"... .there are some questions.

I don't see "stuffing it"  (term I see a lot here... but don't use myself much)... .while working on other things as necessarily unhealthy.

I see "stuffing it" in context of focusing on other things... .as part of a strategy... .to be an ok thing to do.

My gut says that part of Maroons confusion... .or mine... .if I was in this situation... .is that he is scratching his head and wondering... .does my strategy still apply.  Always a fabulous questions to ask.

If there is any chance that the papers are a provocation... .a "divorce threat" taken to the next level... .I think his strategy is sound.

If she is serious about divorce... .then this strategy still could be ok... .up until the point it puts him at a legal or financial disadvantage.  Then he has serious choices to make.  Need an L here.

Ok... .end of ramble... .anyone want to help me sort out all of those statements I made... .go ahead.  I'm barely into my first cup of coffee... .  jeeesh...

[Rapt Reader]

This thread has reached its page limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are welcome to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thank your for understanding... .