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This is some (probably irrational) fear that I have. That she will meet someone else and stop with the lies. Tell him the truth and become an honest person. I know that I would probably have put up with her if it wasn't for all the lies and infidelity. Can they decide to stop lying?

I would say the same about my ex - I could have dealt a lot of other stuff - in fact, I did - but the lying and infidelities were a dealbreaker.

You are engaged in some magical thinking here, my friend.  No, your ex will not suddenly become honest and faithful with someone new.  They are impulsive and disordered and they will continue to be impulsive and disordered moving forward.

Stop living with that fear, they aren't changing without therapy. If someone else helps her get it, great. If not, they're just the next victim in the lineup.

I hope  my ex meets someone who ticks all her boxes and makes her happy longer term - but I'm willing to bet my house she won't. I reckon she's had at least 10 relationships - and ended every one, and that's repetitive/compulsive behaviour that you can't just switch off.   If she makes it up the aisle with 'Mr Right' he will soon assume the mantle of 'Mr Wrong' and find himself trapped in a loveless marriage with a woman whose endless needs will never be met.  I had the best of her - the worst is yet to come and I certainly don't want that 'pleasure'! 

She won't wake up and be a different person one day. Her maladapted defense mechanisms/emotional immaturity/fractured self/etc. is her. Those things just don't one day go away. Even therapy is not a cure; it is only a treatment.

As my ex's T once told her - "It's only going to get worse if you won't treat this. You're heading on the highway for a mentally ill asylum". (In kinder words, though).

They're not going to change unless they either meet a person who's submissive enough to let their own "self" down as much as to put up with that BS (and even that might not be "forever" or they go into what I can only assume is YEARS of therapy in order to help cure the disorder.

Deep down you know it's the only reasonable outcome. Stay strong!

She will never get better... .I wish all I had to deal with was lies and infedility, heck ive dealt with that with that with non BPDs... .Try dealing with getting slashed, told you were gonna get murdered in your sleep, false abuse allegations, getting spit on and attacked... .geez what the heck was I thinking?

A relationship with someone that suffers from BPD is not going to "cure or fix" the disorder; our love is not above the disorder. My ex often dissociated ( lied ) and altered reality to protect from experiencing intense emotion. It's how she copes.

From what I have read, a personality disordered individual needs 5+ years of therapy to show any signs of progress, if any signs at all. That's if that person goes into therapy at all. If you are dealing with a highly functioning PD person, chances of him/her going into therapy are rather slim. So, stop living in that fear, there is nobody out there besides a therapist who can change her.

You should read my first post. I put up with insane crap... .I could live with most of it. But not the lies and infidelities.

Lies and infedelities is something that is not just common in BPDs tho... .the rest of the voilent mental behaviour is what haunts me to this day... .nearly drove me to commit suicide.  Cheating I can at least make some sort of sense of... .I will never understand or come to terms with the vicious nature of the relationship I was just in less than 2 months ago and why she would want to ruin my life when she apparently didnt wanna be with me anyway... .this is someone I lived with for 3 years and supported her 2 kids... .

Sounds so similar to my situation Zunder... .Im sorry you are struggling, I can empathise greatly. I found with my XBPD that she has got back into drugs, reconnected with a lot of male friends that her P told her to removed because of her boundary issues etc, she is in a relationship now with the guy she cheated on me with, he isnt at all that bright so the lies and past stories she will have learnt to hide them this time, and and cheating that she does she will have better tools to not get caught this time around and given old mates not to bright he will not suspect anything.

They don't change, what shes done to me, shes done to many other men, nothing is ever her fault and there is never any remorse. She is quickly turning into the person she was when I started my relationship with her, and helped her out of as she didnt want to be that person, yet its her default pattern and what she has gone back to.

Your fear is that someone else will be able to have a decent relationship with her.  Right?

It feels better thinking she is an abject failure - that anyone with BPD traits is an abject failure. A lot if your posts are very black and white.

I just came across this on Staying:


The important thing to see her is that this is how you are coping - you are painting her, BPD, BPD anything, and BPD almost as black - yourself as the other color.

But you know inside that its not true - how could such and absolute be true - and now you having second thoughts.

Unusual?  No, lots of people do it.  Healthy?  I don't know, but certainly circuitous - whatever much you commit to this thinking will need to be undone before you have peace.

What really matter is that the relationship did not work for the two of you.  The infidelity and her reaction to it was more than you wanted to deal with. 

It will help not to generalize this to her entire personality and 19 million other people - take it down to the root.  The infidelity was a deal breaker.  You have values (good values).  You don't cheat.  You want a life without cheating.  This is your boundary.

Now some couple survive adultery - but the person cheating has to want that really badly.

I do not believe they have the capacity to self reflect and change in order to stop lying and cheating. With my ex BPDbf the lying and cheating were hard wired coping mechanisms. They were built and developed as coping mechanisms as a result of a very difficult childhood.

When he raged and painted me black, he dissociated. This was his coping mechanism to protect himself from the shame, anger and pain. This then allowed him to tell me I was the love of his life and the perfect woman whilst at the same time jumping right into bed with the OW. I don't think he saw it as cheating or lying. Its a built in coping mechanism and lack of impulse control to get "his" needs met.

I ended my encounter with him a year ago. Within 2 months he attempted a recycle. He was still with the OW/replacement. I was blown away at the time. How could he think he could just contact me out of the blue after betraying my loyalty and trust? I found the answers here thanks tp BPD family and in reading many books. He dissociated and likely changed our story to protect him from the painful feelings he felt at the time.

It's a very sad disorder. Sometimes I wish I could dissociate and rewrite things. But you know what? I'd never want to live that way. No accountability, no morals, no integrity, selfish behavior. He lacks the cognitive ability to take responsibilty and learn from past mistakes. So he keeps repeating the fairy tale illusion of the "perfect" woman over and over again.

The manipulation and lies are built in and ingrained coping mechanisms. Only years of therapy "might" help.

Hmmm... .good point, Mutt... .the altering of reality REALLY hurt and perplexed me... .but of course... .if she changed what actually happened, she doesn't have to face her poor behavior... .

WOW... .that is a sick human being. Not possible to work-thru anything with them in any normal adult manner... .it's so frustrating and sad I guess.

I wonder though, do they KNOW that they are lying? Do they ever think "oh yeah, he bought into that lie?" Or do they not know that they are distorting everything?

I could never figure that out. ... .but what I did realize is that in the end, that just did not matter.  I was trying to have a relationship with someone who changed facts to benefit themselves and would actually expect me to interact with them.  It just did not matter if they were doing it on purpose, or they were totally delusional. I needed to walk away from the insanity and save ME!. She had a new shiny knight... .let them figure that all out.  

Wow five years? Where did you read that if you dont mind me asking? I have researched treatment that is said to work but, something in me feels as though it does not.

Often I have wondered that as well. I have even confronted my XBPD with his behavior w/ his brother & a friend of ours. He just shut down and said nothing. I think at some degree they do know they are lying, but refuse to admit it.

What makes it so weird is that they cannot change things they know about. I have certain habits as well, as we ALL do. But if someone were to point mine out, I could work on them and change them.

They don't seem to be able to to change through introspection our conscious effort. They can BARELY change through Pavlovian methods. Which kind of make them seem like bodies without souls - they are just autonomous beings trying to mirror behavior around them. Like parrots imitate sounds, kind of.

Does this sound too harsh? I don't mean it in a harsh way, it's just that they seem kind of "empty" on the in side.

In the end, the manipulation is probably a way for the false self to manipulate the true self. And everyone around them just happen to be manipulated by their false self as well. And their false self is trapping their true self inside with the lies etc.

No you are not being harsh. I have thought more harsh than that. Often I thought... .(What is the point of them, if all they can do is lie & copy. But never be fixed?). But, yes they seem incredibly empty inside, with no change. Even if they are given constructive criticism, its like their brains just dont have the ability to change.

The most confusing part for me was that sometimes he would see the error of his ways and we would have long talks about it. He'd promise to work on it again and again only to do the same thing over and over again. This made me question if

1. He did want to change but just was incapable

2. He'd bull___ and manipulate his way out of it just to keep me "happy"

When Im angry I go for option 2, sometimes in a moment of compassion I go for option 1 and feel sorry for him cause he knows how much he hurts people but just can't change his actions.

Either way... .I have to let it go. We broke up, the motive doesnt matter, the results were the same and not livable for me. Thats the only thing that matters

Recoop: I agree, with the first one. I believe there is awareness, that is why they need to bullbutter their way out of things. But, they are mentally incapable of changing their behavioral patterns. I believe even with therapy it is very modrate progress. But, I chose to move on, not just for my sanity but for my son. No way in heck was I going to put him through that.

This is actually an interesting way of looking at it. If they weren't self-aware - aware of their distorted behavior and perception - they wouldn't go out of their way to hide it. Hiding implies being aware of it.

The thing that's preventing me from detaching is:

1. Fear that she will somehow grow up, turn normal, and have a happy relationship (like we did first 6 months of our 2.5 year r/s) with someone else.

2. The fact that she DOES have moments of clarity, when she talks with a calm voice, a bit depressed and says "don't you think I know how horrible a person I am, that I need to change?" But a few moments later, she forgets she ever said that and blames me for everything again.

I am going to be honest and real with you. Forgive me if I am being mean. She has moments of clarity because, she is AWARE. Rather than accepting she is her own problem she would rather blame who ever is nearst. (You).

As for the first thing my love. Without God and YEARS of therapy, I dont believe they can change. No new person will be enough for them to change. They will always be disordered and sporatic.

Since I also struggle with the replacment and how happy they "appear" to be I made a note to myself to keep reminding me :

Dear Recoop,

He wont change overnight, he will continue the same pattern over and over. He did it to his ex wife, he did it to you, good chance he'll just keep doing it since it has been his pattern for over 20 years. She will have a life of:

Chaos

Empty promises

Instability

Poverty

Dishonesty

Impulsivity

Clutter

Moodiness

Sarcasm

Passive agressiveness

Degrading

Hurt/sorrow

Infidelity

Impotence

Insecurity

Betrayal

Abuse

Selfishness

Giving, receiving nothing in return

Being a doormat

Stress and anxiety

Fear

Doubts

Playing detective

Critisism

Drama

Temper tantrums

Rages

Physicall threaths

Suicide threaths

No need to be jealous or hurt. She wont be "happy" with him. She will be a victim too, I really dont envy her. You will have a calm peacefull life instead. Focus on that!

That is a good life hack there lol. I might try that. Agree 100%

Do you know what's going on with the replacement? Is your ex doing the same thing again?

Well all I know is... .My dBPDexbf (in denial) cheated on me with her, dumped her to make it work with me, slept with her again (i didnt know) then she harrashed me, telling me how he's been sleeping around and how she thinks he is NPD. He wanted to go through with the wedding and then I found out he had slept with her again. That in combination with the "you are the love of my life oh no wait you are a cold hearted b*tch... ." Made me leave for good 1 months before the wedding. He went back to her almost immediately. Then he harasses me telling me he's sleeping with 5 different women built like brick houses, how he's so happy screwing around while her FB shows they are in a rs... .  blah blah... .Her profile picture then went from happy pics of them together to pics of her alone to pics of them together... .But I have stopped checking now. Its not healthy for me and its actually none of my bussiness. I want them to crash and burn, but thats childish and immature from my part. Its a unhealthy need for validation... .I know it rationally, but emtionally I keep struggling with it... .

All I know is that their rs started off with hurt, lies and infidelity... .She trashed him, he trashed her, now they are a "happy" couple... .   Not a healthy foundation... .But not my circus, not my monkeys... .Im staying away from any of that drama... .I need to focus on my future, not my past and let these people stay in the past. The rs didnt work for me, maybe it will work for them, who knows... .But its a struggle to not let the emotion take the upper hand and stay mature... .

How did you stop the facebook checking? If you dont mind me asking. I do it as well.

Well thats also an ongoing struggle! I started of really strong 8 months ago when we broke up. Since he and she kept harrasing me, sending me rages and tantrums I deactivated my FB altogether. I later created a new account under a different name, only invited people I know really well to be my friend and kept it locked down like a fortress! I blocked both of them so they wouldnt be able to find me. They have been blocked ever since. I never checked my exs page cause I know it would be filled with hostile quotes and nonsense anyway. Now comes the bad part... .She has been blocked ever since to and I dont check the content of her page... .I go to the section where you block people, type her name and then she pops up in the list with her profile pic... .Thats the only way I kept tabs on them. Its pathetic I know.

The point is I really dont want to unblock them, since then they'll be able to find and harras me. Now I have to keep away, and keep reminding myself its none of my bussiness. I dont want him back ever, I have to move forward instead of looking in the past. And looking will only hurt me... .But as always its easier said then done... .It truely is detoxing from an addiction!

How about you? How are you handling the replacement and the whole situation?

I pray for the new girl, or replacement this is his second replacement. It makes me wonder what kind of person she is to be with someone like him. I check his facebook for things I can use to prove his disunctional, or mental illness in court. (If we had to go to court). Like him abusing drugs and, suicidal behavior. Pretty much anything to prove he is not stable. It is legal blackmail really. But, I think I have gotten enough proof but, I still check to be nosy. Its bad but... .I do it.

My experience is this:

Divorced after 25 years. He lied to me the day we met, and every single day afterwards.

From little stuff like "what did you have for lunch"

To affairs and addictions.

He still lies his guts out today.

And he, is NOT my problem. Praise the Lord.

I am 11 months post divorce, and it took a long time to get where I am mentally and emotionally, but I am so thankful, so relieved he is out of my life. I am thankful for every day, I do not have to talk to him. I am hopeful of my bright bright future! I am moving 5 states away in 2 months, and I cannot wait!

Even being fully 100% aware of what they do, they seem to have these built-in defense mechanisms to alter what happened in their head so it fits what suits them. This is just how their brains are. It's impossible for us to grasp because most of our brains developed normally. I think it's more akin to brain damage rather than mental illness. They developed all of these defense mechanisms a lot of times before they were even born. Look up "Stress Portrait of a Killer"

My diagnosed exBPD truly convinced me at the end of our relationship that she was going to stay away from men altogether and try to recover, fully acknowledging how screwed up she is. We hadn't even fully broken up, we took a "break" so she could get her head straight. 1 month later she's with some new guy and is all normal again, thanking me for everything I had helped her through and how she's grateful to have had me in her life. Yes, even after saying out-loud that she NEEDS to stay away from men, and fully acknowledging her how sick she is. But of course, that never happened.

They could possibly learn to behave less destructively, but they will never actually change. Life's waaay too short to spend even another minute worrying or thinking about someone who's so damaged. There are literally billions of other people out there who will treat you so much better, waiting for you to come along. Don't stay stuck on this one bad apple. Even I'm still trying to do that myself, but we will get through this.

Don't be too quick on the trigger there. We're the ones sitting here, trying to figure ourselves out. What just happened to us, why did we put up with it, etc.

If you look at my first post, you would never think anyone would put up with that. Yet here I am, missing her. Or something we had. Or something I thought we had. Or some fantasy that I never had. I barely know who I am anymore.



The convincing part is very uncomfortable and almost scary. They can be so extremely convincing. Even though there is NO basis for what they are saying. They are probably very good cult leaders.


It's funny how we all INTELLECTUALLY know we have to move on from their crap. But EMOTIONALLY we struggle like children. Isn't that what they do, as well?

(https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/images/mb/factorlegend.gif)

This is overly pessimistic view of therapy.

This editorial reports 40% of patients with borderline personality disorder remit (remission) after 2 years, with 88% no longer meeting Diagnostic Interview for Borderlines—Revised or DSM-III-R criteria after 10 years

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=123298.msg775390#msg775390

And people who are high function do even better.

The number above are not about "intensive therapy" - there were people that started therapy and it includes those that did little and those that worked hard at it.

Compare this to AA, the rates are far better.  AA shows rates of  5% - 25%.

Our overly pessimistic views are probably partly due to us wanting to confirm our own suspicions - that they don't get better - to make detaching easier.

Either way, it seems you can get better with therapy (of course), but why do so few pwBPD improve? Asking anyone on here (of course, it's a biased sample, but still) change doesn't really seem to happen.

I wonder if it is our magical thinking is partly a factor that kept us with them for so long... .  The hope that they would change. 

The hope that the r/s would revert back to the first year.

The hope that we would, with hard enough work, get the r/s we envisioned.

So post b/u... .

Maybe the thought that our ex partner will magically have the r/s we had envisioned all along, but with another, not us... .

Maybe this is actually evidence of our continued attachment to that original fantasy r/s?

Do you have this magical thinking in other areas of life? My ex was my dream gf first months. I guess I came to believe that's who she was. But it was just an act.

Humm... .Good question.  I am not sure.  I would imagine I do, but cannot think of it.  Maybe it is an element of codependency, therefore, only surfaces in intimate r/s?  I work with people and am always sizing up the potential I feel they have and then helping them work toward that.  However, I wouldn't call that magical thinking as I'm reasonable about where I feel their potential can be.  I do this with r/s too though... .  I am often taking on a facilitator type role.

Wow, LC, harsh but fair IMO. But do we simply suffer from proximal insanity which takes a long time to wear off - but hopefully isn't permanent? 

I know that in the first months of the b/u I struggled with what I knew intellectually (she is disordered; until she acknowledges this and gets help there is no hope for our r/s) with what I felt in my heart (I loved her, I wanted to stand by my commitment to her, I missed her).

I don't think this is a childish struggle; I think it's a normal struggle in which an important r/s is grieved and time is needed to emotionally accept that someone you loved and shared a life with has a serious mental disorder.

Jhkbuzz

You're right that it's normal to grieve. But I think that many of us are willing to take the positives of BPD (intense love, idealization, the hope of a wonderful future) but don't want to accept the limitations of the disorder when reality dawns. This makes it fundamentally different from breaking with a non after a LTR - and so much harder. 

This ties back into the manipulation for me. What ARE the limitations? My uxBPDgf couldn't do anything. She couldn't handle crowds of people because of stress. Too much sounds etc.

BUT. When she felt like it, she went partying like crazy.

This is why the disorder is so hard to grasp.

What if your SO was in a wheel chair and said "I can't walk, can you help me?" And then, on certain days, your SO went "F you", got up from the wheel chair and went out running. That would drive you mad. Just like BPD. It doesn't feel sincere. I will never know if it is or isn't. I know she CAN act normal. I have no idea if she chooses not to the times when she doesn't.

The paradoxical behaviours and inconsistencies. If we classify ourselves as 'normal' then we're never going to get it because we don't think like them. I don't get child killers or paedophiles either - but I accept they are out there. Similarly, I accept that my ex is disordered but have no wish to make sense of her actions as I'd need to be disordered myself to do that!

That is a good point. We are not disordered therefore we will never understand their logic or behavior. I think there comes a point where you are healed and you do not care to understand their behavior or logic.

"I know that in the first months of the b/u I struggled with what I knew intellectually (she is disordered; until she acknowledges this and gets help there is no hope for our r/s) with what I felt in my heart (I loved her, I wanted to stand by my commitment to her, I missed her).

I don't think this is a childish struggle; I think it's a normal struggle in which an important r/s is grieved and time is needed to emotionally accept that someone you loved and shared a life with has a serious mental disorder."

Very nicely stated jhk. I agree, that head/heart battle is a tough one.

I agree... .especially when many of us don't understand that we have a disordered partner. The dichotomy between the idealization and the devaluation is extreme - it was difficult for me to wrap my head around.

My ex is currently in a psych ward. I still have a hard time accepting she's disordered. From the outside, it's as if she chooses this. Because I've seen her turn to normal in the blink of an eye. She CAN act normal. So why she does this is beyond me.

She sent me pictures of herself from in there. She had banged her head against the wall, with blood on her face. She has cut her arms. She has scratched her cheeks and neck so her face and neck are full of bloody sores. It's as if she sees this as a game, play or act. I don't understand it.

She has gone "horror movie mental" right now. I have no idea if it's real or not.

I understand your struggle... .for me, my journey towards "radical acceptance" has included "letting go" of the thought that she is just like me: an adult living a purposeful life who is (usually) making well thought-out decisions. I say this with sadness: she is nothing like me; she is disordered and impulsive and is unsure of who she is. The fact that she sometimes mirrored my stability and values doesn't mean they were hers; the ping-ponging back and forth shows this to be the case.

When you say "I have no idea if it's real or not" do you mean that you're not sure if the pictures are "staged"?  Because if you are certain that she has been hospitalized then it's "real" - and what you need to come to grips with is your own denial of her disorder. This has nothing to do with her and everything to do with you.

"I still have a hard time accepting she's disordered. From the outside, it's as if she chooses this. Because I've seen her turn to normal in the blink of an eye. She CAN act normal. So why she does this is beyond me."

LC,

Yes, they can act normal. In fact, like all of us, they must act normal in order to participate in society (This is why she "acts" normal at times.). As herd creatures, which we are, we learn said behaviors in order to interact with/participate within the herd. Those behaviors can also be imitated (A wolf can enter in sheep's clothing. I am not calling your exSO a wolf, but I want to reference that common analogy/story that is shared and understood by many.). I suspect that that is what she is doing when you see her "acting" normal---she is imitating what is expected. That does not mean that that is who/how she is. In my opinion, this is the reason that their words very seldom match their actions, one is an imitation of what is expected.

We all learn and play many different roles in life. To my son I am Dad. To my brothers I am brother. To my friends I am friend. Etc. Because I am mentally healthy, I do not have to imitate what others expect of me in those roles. I am a Dad. I am a brother. I am a friend. I have accepted the responsibilities that each of those roles entail. Because of her disorder, she is "acting" the part; she is not living the part. See the difference?

At times she does "choose" to "act" normally, but that is draining; she cannot maintain the facade indefinitely. (At this point, think about the burden that she bears in life. She is not normal; she recognizes that as she is trying to "pretend" to be normal (That is the proof of my statement.) She "pretends" to be normal in order to be accepted. She knows that she cannot continually show us, the herd, who she really is because she won't be accepted as such (She is now hospitalized.). I am not making a moral call here---should she or shouldn't she be hospitalized, should she or shouldn't she be accepted into the herd as she is? I am trying to view the world from her side; her view of herself through us must present endless disappointment and unforseen nightmares for her. To know that you do not (cannot) fit in.)

LC, the very best thing you can do for your friend (and yourself as well) is to "accept" your friend as she is. This is not to say that you should enter a damaging relationship with her and sacrifice yourself. You must be healed and whole yourself before you can be of any benefit to anyone, especially someone that is not well. If you do not maintain you, you cannot be of a benefit to her. She cannot carry the load.

Let's say you have a habit that you've had since you were a child. Let's say that you've done it everyday of your life til this very day.,let's say you meet someone who you think could be "the one." Now what do you do with this habit? Do you show the new person who may reject you for it? No, chances are you HIDE the habit until "the ONE" is firmly ensconced and won't think it's that big a deal anyway.

Now how do you break that habit til then? You don't. That's right, you don't. You're not around "the one" 24/7 yet so there are ample opportunities for your habit to be on display in other areas of your life. Sure you may slip up every now and then and "the one" sees or experiences the habit. But you don't do it in front of said person enough to make them bolt. Said person shrugs it off and says everyone has the little quirks.

Once they're firmly in place and aren't moving anywhere, you pull out the habit more and more, til "the one" realizes maybe you've had this habit all along. How come I never saw or noticed it before? Then they are off to the races.

The point is, no, they don't drop something they've done their entire lives for "the one" UNLESS they go into deep counseling and TRY to get over being a liar.

My ex is a huge liar. I can guarantee you the man she is with now has no idea she was in a lesbian relationship for 10 years with another woman. If I've even come up it's been as "my friend," she's lied to her family about us, her kids, her friends. Amazingly, as religious as she is, the one person she can't lie to is  God. And if she could figure out how to get away with it, she probably would.

So shrug that thinking off. Zebras can't get rid of their stripes. Liars don't stop lying for someone new. Not for long anyway... .

The pictures are real, and she has been hospitalized. The weird thing is that she can decide to act normal whenever she wants(?). It's as if she consciously chooses this kind of life.

Thank you for a very nice post.

Yes, but what makes it so hard to detach is the fact that she becomes normal (seemingly) whenever I'm about to.

Think about that ^ statement "It's as if she consciously chooses this kind of life."

Do you know anyone who would consciously choose being hospitalized and self-injurious?  I don't.  It's the disorder.  You are fooled by her intermittent appearances of "normalcy."  It's as if, for you, she has to "act crazy" 100% of the time for you to believe there is a disorder at play.

She is mentally ill. Her hospitalization and self-injurious behavior make this clear.

You're having a hard time reconciling her appearances of normal with her disorder, which I understand.  It took me a long time to reconcile as well.  It will come with the passage of time, and with emotional distance from her.

Yes. Like someone in a wheelchair, I expect someone to either be able to interact in a normal way with others or not. But I guess mental disorders are more complex than that.

So who is she when she is normal? Is that not her? When she's being a sweet girl? Who is that? Just theatre?

Yes - exactly.


None of it is purposeful or premeditated if she is BPD - NPD and ASD are a different ballgame. If she is truly just BPD, they are ALL her.

I found reading about Jeffrey Young's Schema Therapy (and the associated "schema modes" to be really helpful in understanding some of the questions you currently have.  Where is the "normal adult" I fell in love with?  Why does she sometimes seem like a vulnerable, scared little girl?  Why does she sometimes come across as completely cold and emotionally detached?



www.getselfhelp.co.uk/schema.htm (http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/schema.htm)

"Yes, but what makes it so hard to detach is the fact that she becomes normal (seemingly) whenever I'm about to."

LC,

I don't understand your difficulty in understanding/believing that your friend is sick with a mental illness. She is in the hospital due to her disorder; that is not an act. That is her. When she acts normal, that is her as well. But, her disorder underlies all of what you see and experience with her; because of that, when she appears to be normal she is not normal.

If I step into a crowded room, full of people, the chances are very great that at least one person in that room is going to have diabetes. Will I be able to pick that person out of the crowd, no. That does not mean the person doesn't have diabetes just because I cannot "see" their diabetes. It is there with that person; it underlies that persons life. In regards to absolute health, that person is unhealthy because he/she is stricken with diabetes. The diabetes is an abnormality, although unseen.

I think that when you see your friend as normal you have hope that that is who she is. Then she regresses and the disorder presents it's ugliness. Again, all of that is her, and her disorder underlies all of it. You have seen it. I don't believe that you have reached a point where you can accepted it. Hope can keep us from facing reality. It is not a game for her LC. Her life, because of her disorder, is a wreck. When your hope wanes, you'll see and accept her as she is. (That is your responsibility, not hers.)

Not quite sure. It's just hard to understand how you can be perceptive at one moment, and not the next. Where does she go when she stops being perceptive? Could you liken it to something that happens for normal people? Is it like becoming drunk?

I visited her today. She was the sweetest girl ever. I know this won't last. But is this her? Is she acting? Is she thinking "I'll play sweet so he doesn't abandon me"?

What's it like to be a pwBPD? Are they like, high? Drunk?

It's just very hard to integrate both of her personalities. If I accept that she is as crazy as she acts, she is absolutely horror movie insane style crazy. If I don't accept that, I have to call it an act. It's just very hard to warp my head around it.

*mod*

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