BPDFamily.com

Here is my previous thread... .https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=276400.0

My thoughts?   Really tired of her unhealthiness and not seeking help.  I know I can't control her, but she continues her poor a$$ behavior... .Even in front of her kids and she wonders why they are struggling!  I don't know what to do regarding our r/s anymore.  I'm hanging tough, and staying strong.  Yes, she has gotten better.  Yes, yesterday was a step backward.  Not sure where to go from here... .A part of me wants to hang in there and a part of me wants to completely cut her off and let her see what life is like without me... .My love for her hasn't changed, but I need to protect that and maybe lovingly detach for a while.  What sad, is each time I go through this, I see that I begin to care less.  Does that make sense?  I don't know how to explain it other than that... .

Hello, I am new to the board and only discovered that my wife has BPD in the past week (no formal diagnosis).  Having read your first thread, here are my thoughts:

1.  I don't think it is fair for those on this thread to question whether you are right about not paying off the 401k loan.  We don't have all of the details, and you didn't ask us if your position was reasonable.  Considering that your wife has BPD, there is a good chance that your position IS reasonable.  (On a side note, though, what I am struggling with now is how to not consider all of my wife's requests as unreasonable.  Just because she has a skewed view of the world does not mean that my view on things is correct.  There are probably psychiatric terms to describe many of my behaviors as well.)

2.  I think your wife violated 2 limits that you need to have in your relationship. One, she stole from you.  Two, she damaged your car.  If you are going to be able to interact with each other, she needs to respect those 2 limits.

Now that she has violated the limits, you have to decide what your response will be.  Personally, I would have a hard time being in the same room with her if she is going to attempt to steal something from you each time you get into an argument.  You may want to look into legal options (file a police report?).  I don't know much about such options, so you might want to check the legal thread to see what people suggest.  You also mentioned that she stole your laptop and still hasn't returned it.  You may want to tell her that one of your limits is stealing from you and that you need her to respect that limit.  As a sign that she is willing to respect that limit, she needs to return your laptop.  Until then, you won't do X (you will need to fill in what that is - maybe not being in the same room with her, I don't know).

 

Maroon,

I hope to spend some more time on your thread later today.


I know you are tired of all this... .I'm with you man... .this stuff is hard. It's not fair... .but it is. There are also good moments... .those will come again. 

Take deep breath... .let's work on a sports analogy.

You are my star hitter... .your skills have improved dramatically over the season... .lots of practice!   |iiii

Bases are loaded... .2 outs... .I'm not sure what the count is against you during this at bat... .but I think this thing resolves... .one way or another pretty quick.

Here is the thing... .I'm not aware of any more ammo she has to toss at you.  So... .fairly soon... .she will call your bluff... .or you will call hers. 

My guess is that it will be a conversation with her lawyer... .as he asks what to do next.

So... .back to sports analogy.  She's the pitcher... .and she has been putting some serious junk on her pitches.

If she sends you an emotionally healthy pitch... .the team needs you to swing with all you've got.

If she pitches you something that is unhealthy... .the best you can hope for is a walk... .don't swing.

She gets some kind of odd thing... .which we as nons don't really understand (at least I don't)... .from cheating when she pitches (that is emotional bs that she sends you)

So... .the team (your family)... .needs you to get back out there... .and keep your eye on the ball... .and know when to swing.

You can do this... .

Last thought for now:  "Telling her several times you are here for taxes... ."  I see you trying to use the tools... .but I'm thinking that a tool switch was in order.  Tell her once... .MAYBE... .twice if you see the temp coming down... .then switch tools and exit.

My guess (I may be wrong)... .is that it came across to her as you "pleading" with her to be reasonable... .to stick to an agreement to talk about taxes... .

Even if it didn't sound that way to you... .that is my guess for how she took it. 

That put her in the power position... .she likes having power over you... .you are "pleading" with her to give it back.

I'm thinking a better answer is to take it back... .it's yours.

Taking it back means exiting the conversation... .and house if needed.

Hang tough!  Keep eye on ball!

FF

First, I am sorry that you find yourself here, and second, thank you for contributing to my thread in the midst of your circumstances.


Everyone is entitled to their opinions.  What most people aren't looking at is if I wanted to be nasty, I could go after half of her 401k if we do go through a divorce.  I wouldn't do that considering I'm not that way, she doesn't get child support from her ex, nor do I feel I am entitled to it regardless that I am her husband.


This is where I am struggling.  I am not sure how to set this limit and what that looks like.  It's not that I am scared to, but how do you enforce such a boundary.  :)oesn't mean she might not try it again.


She is using the "community property" excuse to not give it back knowing full well I bought it with my student loan.  I have tried letting it go and not mentioning it thinking eventually she would do the right thing (in other words, when she sees something is important to me, she tries to control it).  That didn't happen.


I really appreciate that.


It is tough.  It wears on you.


Why do you think that?


What thing?


What would you consider "emotionally healthy"?


What would you consider "emotionally unhealthy"?


I see you're first point and see your second point also.  It's exhausting in the middle of it to try and figure out what her thought process is.


Yes, I totally see that and see that the divorce is another way of that, "having control".


OK. 

 

The thing I am referring to is your marriage.


Either she will "blink" and toss out myriad reasons why the divorce isn't going forward... .

Or... .she will proceed... .

To be clear... .I don't think you should bring this up... .or respond to her divorce talk... .that's why you have lawyers.

Plus... .right now... .I'm sensing you are a bit "raw"... .and worn out.  That is the time for even stronger boundaries... .because your energy reserves are low.

Make it about you... ."I'm too upset to discuss this now... ."... .exit. 

I'll try to spend some time later on this... .

Oh... .yeah... .the reason I think good times will come again... .is that is the "order to the disorder"

There have been times before when I got the vibe from you that you were at end of rope... .and things got better.

No guarantees... .but I think this will get better as well.

Last thing:  Take her out of the equation... .random person vandalizes your stuff... .what do you do?

Emotionally healthy is big topic... .but the quick answer... .is known trigger conversations... .jadeing... .baiting... .

FF

Maroon, I think that the only healthy way to get to good times in your relationship is through the strong boundaries that are being described here. (And I guess I'm not really seeing a great variation of opinion from people who have responded to this thread, despite the confusion regarding the 401K payback.)

Right now, I would argue that no parts of this cycle are healthy. Not the parts where you have passionate make-up periods with your wife, and not the parts where her kids do the happy dance because the man sometimes-known-as-Dad is back again, however briefly. It's all pretty traumatic.

You became part of this daunting picture as a very young man, I believe. No wonder you didn't know what hit you. But now, even though you are quite a bit younger than your wife, the only candidate in the family for leading in a very grown up way is you.

You've got formflier pitching you excellent questions. And Fian shows a quick grasp of your situation as well. They are both seeing the really tough stuff you face right now quite clearly it seems. Their posts bear re-reading, and contemplating at the deepest level. 

I can't imagine how tired you must be right now. Maybe you can take some kind of break after finishing with the IRS business.

Is there a deadline with IRS?  Why is this being discussed right now?  What happens if you decide to ignore it for 4 months... .6 months... .12 months?

Have you filed your own return ... .or did you extend it?

FF

That's what I figured... .


I won't... .


I am.  I do need even stronger boundaries right now.  Honestly, I don't even care at the moment that we aren't talking.  is is bad that I'm almost happy and at peace with it.  It gets more that way each time this cycle starts anew... .


You're definitely right about the "order to the disorder".


File a police report... .


I need to find out when the deadline is with the IRS... .I will call this afternoon.  I filed an extension on last year's taxes and so did she.


I agree.  Trying to think and talk through what those strong boundaries might be... .


Yeah, I agree.  It is strange.  I avoid telling anyone (except people I trust about the situation) because they all tell me I'm nuts.


And the problem was, my first marriage was extremely unhealthy also.  I hate even typing that.  Never really recovered from the first one either.


I will make sure I read through them again later today and digest them.


Honestly, I am tired.  Tired of several things at the moment and need a vacation for a bit.  Break from my wife's garbage, break from work.  Problem is, I think I would just sleep for the entire vacation and it would be a waste.

|iiii

I believe that is because you are getting healthier... .stronger... .

You are more centered about what you do... .and don't control... .

FF

I too feel that you are getting stronger and healthier, doing pretty amazing work.  |iiii

Thank you guys.  I really appreciate that and I do feel like I'm getting stronger.  The biggest are of opportunity for me is setting hard boundaries around how I'm treated.  It's my own fear of abandonment/loss... .

Honestly, if you got a vacation where you just slept as much as you wanted and no phone calls, texts, emails, facebook things, or anything were accessible from your wife, you would be way ahead.

... .but that isn't really what I wanted to to say to you... .I've been mostly out of communications for a week or two, and missed most of this thread, but I did notice some serious escalation here.

1. She grabbed your phone and tried to keep it.

2. She started hitting your car with a baseball bat.

THIS IS A BAD SIGN. The escalation.

You've been doing better with her, and she's acting worse. It *may* be an extinction burst, however, you really should protect yourself.

Being alone with her (or with only kids as witnesses) seems like a rather big risk for you now. She could harm you. She could call police and falsely accuse you. You could be end up in jail.

Think about it. Think about keeping a more safe distance from her for a while, perhaps until the pending financial things are done... .taxes, mostly, I guess.

It may not be the best thing for your marriage, or for the kids you raised... .but you do  have other responsibilities, to yourself and your own kids, which you cannot deal with well from jail!

You're probably right here!


I'm still curious why the escalation happened so quickly considering she was doing better.  We had gone several months without a major dysregulation like this.  I was kind of shocked she resorted to this out of nowhere.  I shouldn't be and I know that she isn't emotionally healthy, but it did catch me off guard.  I am still surprised I handled it as well as I did.  Obviously she is struggling pretty bad.  One thing she has mentioned several times is her "having to be responsible for the kids college all on her own".  She seems to always dysregulate over money.  Unfortunately, I don't feel sorry for her because she is where she is because of her unhelathiness.  Doesn't mean I don't love her, but she made this bed.  When pwBPD pull their crap, it's almost like they expect nothing will happen to them.  As a Christian, I know that you "reap what you sow"... .The unfortunate thing is she knows that also... .Everytime she pulls something like this, it always bites her in the a$$... .


I am.  Last night we had a softball event and our team took a picture and she was the only one that got the picture in time that I wanted.  I asked her for a copy and she completely ignored me.  At first I thought she couldn't hear me so I asked our daughter to ask her.  She did and she completely ignored her request.  lol  I just walked away and shook my head.  They act like a two year old and it's quite ridiculous.  I didn't speak to her again. 


I am going to do this.  I do have to look out for myself and my children right now and that will be my first priority. 

Before I make these comments... .want to be clear... .her dysreg is not your fault... .at all.

Think of yourself as a firefighter (I guess my pitcher example didn't take... .    )

You realize that she has BPD traits... .you can see some smoldering... .a little smoke... .but... .there is no way to tell how hot things are underneath what you can see unless you pour some fuel on it.

Three choices. 

1.  See the smoke... .shrug and move along.

2.  See the smoke... .attempt to put some cooling water on it.

3.  See the smoke... .put some fuel on it... .stand back and see what happens.


To be clear... .there are times when firefighters dump all kinds of water on a situation... .and the house still burns down.    So... .you could have been "perfect"... .and maybe she wouldn't have hit your car with a bat (because they would still be in trunk) ... .but she might have picked up a rock and pitched it at you as you drove away... .while enforcing a boundary.

Very much like a firefighter... .when you "pull up" to a BPD situation... .take a long hard look at your strategy before entering the structure fire... .or else you could get burned.

And... .unfortunately for you and many of us... .there are others we care about in the burning house... .:'(

Good job testing the waters about the picture... .and then moving along.   |iiii

FF

I know this and why I can laugh it about it and see how ridiculous and unhealthy it is.  I do realize she has a lot on her shoulders, but it is her fault and her bed she has to lie in.  Only she can change it, but she would rather have a whipping post instead of looking at the culprit.  I refuse to be anyones whipping post any longer.


:) lol :) lol  Noted... .


In the moment, I thought I was by diverting the conversation back to the original topic.  I even tried and validated.  In the moment, i forgot that sometimes, it won't work regardless and I forget that.  You can't reason with the unreasonable.  I should have left the convo much earlier.


This is where I still need work... .


This is so true.  It's bad enough her kids have a deadbeat dad, but then to have an unhealthy mother who has murdered the only dad they have ever trusted to them is crap.  And she wonders why they are struggling.  It's amazing that she put them in counseling when she divorced her ex and he was a deadbeat, but now, doesn't want them anywhere near it.  That's very telling... .As far as testing the waters, I more or less wanted the picture, but I guess deep down I was... .

Keep your eye on the ball.

*WHY* she dysregulated isn't your problem. You can't know. She probably doesn't even know.

Your priority should be to make sure you are protected from it... .you don't need to understand it.

It is really tough to look at that next step away from your marriage. I've been there.   

I'm glad to hear you are doing better on boundaries and management of it. Hang in there.

I know that the "why" isn't my problem.  I am protecting myself from it and it is very difficult to look at next steps.

This weekend, we had a softball tournament, and my wife and I got along well.  We hadn't spoken in almost a week, but we set up some stuff from our old business to do a fundraiser for our team.  There was no real shows of affection, however we did sit together at the games.  We laughed at times, talked on the phone and had fun.  Today, I included her on a team text and responded to her response.  One thing I will never understand is they can completely dysregulate and act like nothing happened.  I am staying emotionally distant, and allowing her to come to me... .

The weather was really bad here last night andI texted my wife to check on her and the kids and made sure they were ok after softball practice.  She said they were and mentioned she had a headache and hadn't felt good all day.  I validated that and texted for a few minutes and could tell she was cutting it off by saying, "Have a good night and stay safe.  The weather is nasty."  I thought to myself, "   Seriously?  I had no idea.  I thought that is why I texted you."  But I just said, "You too.  Goodnight."  We haven't talked this morning and I'm letting her have her space. 

After we texted, I had a conversation with my first wife.  I called to check on our oldest daughter who was feeling bad.  We then got on the subject of softball, and she told me what my assistant coach's wife said to her a couple of weeks ago at a tournament.  She asked my first wife why my wife treats me the way she does at times.  She said that they see I am being very patient with her even in the midst of her anger, and even being mean at times.  She made the statement that I am always eager to help her when she needs it but that when she doesn't need me, she treats me bad.  I listened and it was hard to hear.  I know in the past I was that way, but not much anymore. 

What way?  Can you explain this a bit... .?

FF

Really eager to put myself out there, regardless of how I am treated and thought that if I "tried harder", that would change the way she saw me.  I know now (and obviuosly have for a while) that I can't do that and it doesn't do any good.  The way I see it now is that I can only control me and she has the choice of how she acts.  I realize that people see the truth over time.  The other night, I think my wife got upset with me because after I helped loading her car up with the stuff we used for the fundraiser, she asked if I could run home with her and help her unload the first load.  I said I needed to stay and score the game coming up.  She got upset at first but then realized our oldest daughter wanted to go home so she dropped it.  Later, on her last trip from the fields, she called and asked if I had emptied the water out of the freezer as she could hear it sloshing around.  I told her, "No, I forgot to.  It won't leak as it is airtight when closed and won't open.  It will be fine until you get home".  No, I didn't validate her fear of it leaking in her car.  I really feel that what she was wanting me to do was come and help her unload it, empty it and whatever else.  At first I felt guilty, but then I realized a couple of things.  Number one, my car had gotten stuck in the mud earlier that day and a couple of guys were going to help me push it out.  Not a huge deal, but she didn't even address that in the conversation.  Second, I realized that when she wasn't speaking to me last week, she loaded/unloaded everything all by herself and didn't need my help then.  So now because she was tired (yes, it was one in the morning) and didn't want to do it by herself, she could call me knowing it was a no-win.  It also gave her the perfect out to paint me black and play the victim card.  She raised her voice and said, "Fine, I'll do it myself." and hung up.  I thought to myself, welcome to my world sweetheart!    :)  Basically now, I'm not making myself as available to her as I once did.  She needs to feel the weight of her decisions. 

So as I said earlier, I haven't made contact with my wife first within the last week at all.  She called me three times today.  The second time she called, we talked for over an hour and it was light, fun and we joked.  I have not told her I loved her in over a week and I feel pretty good about that, even though truthfully, I want to tell her. 

 

I'm impressed with your ability to feel... .your feelings... .and then make a emotionally healthy choice based on the patterns your wife has been displaying in the r/s.

I think I know why... .but... .I think lots of newbies out there might be interested in knowing why you don't just tell her how you feel... .

Isn't telling her you love her a good thing? 

(The fastball has been pitched... .let's see what he does with it!)   

FF

Telling her how I feel gives her a "fastball over the middle of the plate" to "hit over the fence" and reject me... .It gives her the power.  It also puts pressure on her to say something she may not be feeling at the moment which gives them anxiety and in turn could lead to dysregulation.

 

Nicely said... .! |iiii

Ready for extra credit... .?

It also risks doing what to her.  Hint... .as opposed to adding oil to the "machine" (machine being your r/s) and having it runs smoother... .what might you do to the machine... .?

Thank you!   :)


It risks pushing her away.  It's part of the push/pull of the disorder... .

A valid response... .however... .I was thinking invalidation.

If Maroon feels lovey dovey... .and wifey does not.  Maroon calls her up and says I love you... .you are the best... .blah blah blah... .  and she doesn't feel that way.

INVALIDATION... .

Here is my take on push pull... .it's similar to invalidation.  If maroon is feeling pull... .when wifey is feeling pull... .and you both get close... .nice work!  Enjoy the great time.

If both are feeling push... .that works out as well.

It's when each of you are opposite... .that it seems to go south.

Thoughts?

FF

That's true.  Right now we are both pull/pull and not really getting anywhere.  She asked me to pick up our daughter for practice and I said sure as she had choir practice at church.  I notice when she gets back in church (been out a while because of softball tournaments), she goes into a full on "pull".  It's almost like she can't have a r/s with me and be in that church at the same time (painted me black to all them obviously and feels guilty maybe?)... .

I was thinking this morning on the way to work and then reading this in your other thread had me thinking.  Our wedding anniversary is coming up in two weeks and I'm not sure how to handle this.  What should I expect from her (BPD-wise) as this event gets closer?  I could see her trying to get a rise out of me to paint me black considering this is a "big event".  I know that no one can speak for her, but what do you think she expects of me?  A part of me thinks that I just go on as that day doesn't exist and don't bring it up, but then again, a part of me wonders if I should.  Another no-win it feels like.  I don't want to reward her for her last dysregulation and denting the hood on my car by having a "romantic" night out.  I don't know that I can be romantic considering.  I also don't want to not do anything... . This is tough... .

Obviously at the moment, we are in a pull/pull deal, and I'm not chasing her.  Since her last dysregulation, I have pulled back a bunch emotionally.  The "divorce" is at a standstill (she's not pushing it and only does when she dysregulates) and the more time goes by, it just affirms for me that it is a form of manipulation by her.  Thoughts?

 

IMO... .the divorce is manipulation tactic.  Doesn't mean she won't go through with it... .


I think you need to start a new thread on what to do about anniversary... .

Of course it will be a big deal... .ignoring it seems wrong... .but... .she is such an exposed nerve right now... .sigh.

FF

Personally, I would not be celebrating an anniversary while divorce is on the table.  My approach would be to tell her that you are not planning on celebrating it due to the divorce and the fact that she took a base ball bat to your car.

I am leaning to this side of the fence with you Fian... .

 

Language matters... .I would not mention celebrate.

Unless you are going to take action on baseball bat issue... .I would never mention it again.

In other  words... .enforce something... .or hush.  If you try to take middle ground... .or middle of the road... .what happens? 

Squish... .

Better question:  How do you acknowledge an anniversary to someone that you have a "troubled" r/s with... .and is triggered (sometimes) by affection and romantic overtures... .

I don't have the answer... .but I think that question is better... .

Anyone else make the question even better? 

FF

Then what do you call it?  Isn/t that what it is regardless?


I guess looking at the dent on my hood is punishment enough for her? 



This is an issue for me.  How can you recognize an anniversary and not be considered a celebration.  Right now, I don't make any real attempt to reach out emotionally.  I'm at the point where I'm not sure I can because I always seem to get burned.  I'm still pretty upset with her regarding my car.  I'm upset that she can't even apologize for it.  Does she even realize that it actually happened?  I "radically accept" that she can't apologize, but that doesn't mean I have to be okay with it.  Yesterday, I called her (it was about softball) and she acted like she was busy so I just said what I had to say about it and then said, "It sounds like you are busy so I will talk to you later." and we said bye and hung up.  I haven't told her I love her in almost two weeks.  I think she gets that there is some distance there because I don't really call her or text her much anymore... .She usually texts me these days if I go a whole day without speaking to her. 

Earlier in the week, my wife mentioned our kids choir concerts (they were last night).  I asked my wife to send me the details about our kids choir concerts last night and she said she would, and she didn't.  I almost knew she wouldn't.  I didn't text her, I didn't call her, I didn't remind her and I didn't chase her for that information.  I won't.  I went to my son's baseball game, had a ball and didn't feel bad.  I could have gone to their events after his game, but she chose not to send me the information and punish them.  It's sad.  I'm not even upset by it anymore.  I'm upset for them.  I see now how she uses the control of their extra-curriculars to keep me at bay, then she can continue to play the victim card.  Funny thing is, she begged for their biological father to come to their stuff and never did, but now, when she has someone who wants to be a father to them, she makes sure he doesn't come.  The more and more I see this stuff, I realize how it's not about them, but about her. 

Of course, she will probably rewrite history in her head that she did tell you, and you chose not to come.

Acknowledge... .or something along those lines.

Here is the thing... .it very well may turn out better to say nothing... .that just seems... .really weird.

Almost like it's worth having her grump a bit... .or dysreg... .but she knows you "remembered"... .rather than you do nothing... .and she feels abandoned.

Who knows... .

So... .what do you "want" to do... .very different than what do you "think" you should do?

FF

In her case, she is more likely to not say anything because she knows in the past it hurt me because I want to be a part of their life.  It gives her the control.  I am taking that away from her more and more.  I won't beg or chase for that information nor will I ask how they went or why she didn't send me the information. 


I totally agree that it seems really weird to not acknowledge it... .


I would like to acknowledge it, but saying "Happy Anniversary!" seems a bit contrite and is a complete oxymoron right now.   :)  Will have to continue to brainstorm. 

Could you text with something like:

"wife I was thinking of you as it is our anniversary today. I hope you have a peaceful and blessed day. ML"

No L word mentioned and no 'celebrate' mentioned. And the divorce is not mentioned.

PT

PT,

Nice work!  I think this could be it... .or something close.

Best wishes could be added... .or "I wish the best for you... ."... .could substitute for "I love you"

FF

Hello ML,

Could you not have gone to the kids choir recital anyway ? Was there another way you could access this information so that the kids are not impacted negatively by all the passive aggressive dynamics.

You then take the ownus away from your wife in having to provide this information which changes the overall dynamic. Win for you, win for the kids.

I like this.  You could buy one of the nice cards with no printed message and simply hand-write a note.  That is personal and caring without the L word or celebrate or happy being mentioned.

I like this!  I think FF is right.  Thanks PeppermintTea!


I have thought about this.  Considering they aren't mine biologically and she took me off their school paperwork as a "parent", I can't get access to that information since they are minors.  

I wondered if you might still be on the school paperwork, what a shame your not.

Just a thought.

     Everyday spent with my wife is an adventure it seems... .:)... .The more and more I have gone through this, the more and more I see how unstable pwBPD are emotionally, and therefore their thought processes.  I'm getting much better validating what should be and ignoring the outright ridiculous because some of what they say doesn't make sense.  We had a softball tournament this weekend and Saturday got rained out about halfway through the day.  My wife and I decided to go get a bite to eat together when they called the rest of the games that day due to rain delay.  We get there and it was my wife, our oldest daughter, her best friend, and I.  I felt like the 3rd wheel at times.  They were having their own conversations (usually about boys that my daughter and her friend think are cute) that I didn't have any input on so for the most part, I stayed quiet.  She asked me if there was something wrong and I said, "Not at all.", as there wasn't.  She was probably feeling guilty for having conversation that I couldn't be involved in and was projecting.  When my wife is with them, she acts like she is their age at times.  Since I am recognizing the mirroring now, it is becoming unattractive and a turnoff. 

     Yesterday,after the tournament concluded, she said she wanted to go swimming and I invited them to my pool at my apartments.  They came over and got in the pool for a bit.  I'm also realizing when she is "splitting" or not dealing with emotion very well, she will say something "triggering".  Her and I were talking in the pool and an older man was laying out there reading a book and got up and left.  My wife said, "Please don't be that age still living here."  Honestly, I didn't know how to respond so I just changed the subject.  A few minutes later, she was showing our daughters a picture on Facebook about her co-worker and her boyfriend or fiancee (named John) taking her on a helicopter ride in the Hawaiian Islands.  My wife made the statement, "John must be "loaded".  She then said our oldest son said, "We need a John."  And they laughed.  Again, I changed the subject.  A little bit later, she said, "My landlord is upping my rent when I renew."  I validated by saying, "That sucks, because that means less money you will have for other things."  She said, "I know, but what can I do?  I told them I was a single mother with three kids and could they please reconsider?"  She then said she never heard back from them.  I validated and said, "That would be frustrating when you are trying to work out your finances."  She said, "Yes!  It is!"  Later, I wondered if she was "laying the groundwork" for maybe reconciling talk (with all those things she said) later bacuse she is realizing she can't afford things, and she isn't talking about/bringing up divorce at all (which continues to confirm she did it for control and didn't expect me to dig my heels in).  Not worried about what her motives were, but just saying I'm beginning to recognize so much more much quicker these days.  Anyway, we sat while the kids swam, talked and held hands.  She brought up out of nowhere how fun it would be to take another cruise.  I validated that and said I needed a vacation.  She asked if I wanted to come over to her place and have pizza.  I said sure.

     We got to her house and ate, talked for a while.  The kids started arguing who was going to sleep with her last night.  I find it completely ridiculous that a 17YO, 16YO and a 12YO are sleeping with their mother all the time now.  Strange.     Anyway, she said she wanted to go lay down and invited me to lay down with her until she had to pick her son up from work.  I walked in there and her youngest daughter (12YO) jumps on the bed between us.  My wife said, I didn't invite you in here, you need to go get a shower and get ready for bed.  She didn't do it but instead just layed there.  My wife said it again and again, she didn't go.  My wife dropped it and then they started talking while I was there being quiet.  My wife then layed her head on her daughter (She always layed her head on my chest when we would go to bed) and continued talking.  Again, strange.  She used to be very particular about her room and that being her "space".  A bit later, she got up to go get her son from work and I walked out with her.  i grabbed my keys and we hugged for a bit and we kissed and told each other we loved each other.  I left and went home and went to bed.

 

Well done ignoring the "bait"... .

FF

Thanks.  I am recognizing the splitting going on with my wife at the moment.  It started when she mentioned her sister was coming into town tonight when we were out by the pool Sunday.  This would make sense because, to her sister, I'm the bad guy.  I'm starting to recognize when she splits she "doesn't feel good".  Yesterday, she dropped our daughter off at practice and I went up to her car and I asked how she was doing because Sunday night after we ate pizza she said she started to feel bad.  After we hugged and kissed Sunday evening, she has been distant.  This seems to happen when she is dreading something (maybe her sister coming and asking about us).  She said she felt terrible.  I validated and told her if she needed me to give her a ride home I would.  She said if she did she would text me. 

     Does anyone else see this trend?  Is it because of depression?  It's almost like the inward pain manifests as outward sickness because they can't deal with it any other way.  She told my son on Sunday she would be at his Kindergarten graduation this morning.  I called this morning to check on her and she said "she was working" and to tell him she is proud of him.  I didn't ask if she was coming, she asked what I was doing and I told her where I was going.  I told her to have a good day and she said, "You too." 

     My thing is, don't tell my son you'll come if you won't.  She may not invite me to her kids things, but I won't do the same.  Maybe that's why she doesn't come so that she doesn't have to feel guilty.  Anyway, yesterday, I sent her a video of my son's hit at his game to cheer her up with no response and this morning I sent her the video of him "graduating" with no response.  That's fine, I won't send her another one and let her be, especially while her sister is here.  I'm actually much better dealing with her splitting and it doesn't really affect me much anymore. 

 

Can you give us some "word for word" of how you validated? 

FF

When she dropped her off for practice, I asked her how she was feeling, and she said, "Not good."  I said, "I'm sorry.  That has to be tough on you considering how much work you have piled up and with your sister coming into town."  She said, "Yep".  I told her to get some rest and if she needed me to bring our daughter home to text me and let me know.  She said ok, and then left.

The last few days, my wife won't return a text, but will call me if I don't text her.  For instance when she said she didn't feel good, I texted her the next morning to check on her.  No response.  I let it go and didn't text again at all the rest of the day and the next day either.  She finally called me today and talked about someone we knew and other stuff for a while.  I kept it real light.  We talked at softball tonight and after softball practice we went to go get ice cream together with the kids and everywhere we went was closed.  Finally we just agreed it wasn't going to happen and she said she would see me tomorrow and I said ok.  I texted her a bit later and said that it sucked we couldn't get any ice cream with no response.  It doesn't bother me anymore, but don't understand the avoidance.  That's the difficult part of all this.  I'm doing very well staying nonchalant and not letting the "BPD" crap bother me.  Actually, I'm finding that it's pushing me away emotionally.  Also, she doesn't have me blocked on text because she texted me when we were trying to find an ice cream place open.

My wife shocked me this morning!  My son's baseball team got the number one seed in his postseason tournament that starts tomorrow night and that conflicts with a softball team party (for my team) we were having at my apartment pool.  My wife offered to come hold down the party while I go to my son's game.  Again, I was shocked that she did that.  That's the first time in a long time that she has put my needs first!  That is progress.

Sounds like you can't rely on her behaving in old patterns anymore. Rationale plans based on two people pushing forward two goals independently. Where has all the enmeshed behavior gone? I feel for you having to make so big adjustments  

What do you mean?

Hi MaroonLiquid,

in an enmeshed state people think of the other partner as an extension of themselves. This leads to controlling behavior and automatic attribution of emotions - you do what I say and you feel what I feel. In this state people act egocentric and have a hard time seeing the needs of their partner.

The change in behavior you observed in your wife is a very positive sign. She was thinking through this situation not as one but as a team of two that act independently. It is the result of you becoming stronger and taking a stand. Boundaries are very effective in breaking the sense of being able to control the other side. Your hard work on boundaries is paying off  |iiii

|iiii

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