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What were those things that you did that they just took for granted or didn't appreciate.

- Paid her electric bill (was turned off) before we even physically met.

- Paid her rent once or twice at first place (that she lost)

- She lost her dwelling but I got the landlord to give three months without rent in the end.

- Totally moved her and I out of first place and into 2nd place.

- Paid one year rent in advance in second place (nearly 10K)

- Got her a phone on my plan in the beginning, paid majority of bill, she only had to pay about 20.

- Bought her the first pair of decent sneakers she's ever had

- Always gave her money and gift cards before moving with her.

- Bought her family a new tv for first christmas (in advance)

- Bought her daughter a camera and new netbook computer. (daughter turned into a real snot)

- Cleaned up the pigstye house of hers.  At least the Kitchen, LR and Bedroom and bathroom.

My first trip to be with her, I fixed her bedroom furniture, because her ex#2 busted the doors on the armoire chest.  They were just hanging off by a hair.  I fixed in about an hour.  Not even a friggin word!

The crap attitude I had to take from her ex husband.  And she didn't even apologize, it's just like, Pay no attention etc.

This is just a itty bitty list.  I still didn't see it coming!  I just tried to be a good man and provide for my new family. 

What are those things that stand out in your situation?

She really had me playing the fixer role. After 5 days of having moving in with her (at her behest) she started showing some serious  red-flag . Nothing I did at that time was right.

How dare I cook lentils?

I was never doing things the way she liked it... in one episode she exploded when i wasn't moving a blanket fast enough.

and when she would go off, she would start mentioning "wrong-doings" from our past, like a minute detail from a vacation. She hated a hotel from a vacation a year ago.

Ugh... .i can't beleive after a week of NC i was actually contemplating calling back, thanks for reminding me the ginormous pile of negatives!

-Gave her money and a "food parcel" when her parents left for a week without leaving any money/food.

-Fixed her phone after she dropped it (cost me quite a lot)

-Let her stay at my place when she was having trouble with her family

-Came over each time she sounded suicidal/depressed on the phone. she lived AN HOUR AWAY.

-STOPPED HER FROM COMMITTING SUICIDE

-Left the army for her, in order to start a life together (dumped a month and a half later)

-Took care of her for DAYS when she was sick, didn't leave her side for five minutes, slept on the floor to let her sleep peacefully in my bed, drove myself to literal exhaustion (couldn't walk for 2 days).

Oh and did I mentioned - STOPPED HER FROM COMMITTING SUICIDE! (I feel like this should be mentioned twice).

And the funny thing is when I told some of it to a mutual female friend (while my then-gf was giving me the silent treatment) - She said "WOW, she probably really appreciates you" - NOPE. I remember after taking care of my ex (for days as mentioned above) and she then went straight to work I got depressed and she asked why and I remember saying I felt "Like a used condom. take me, use me for your needs, throw me away when you're done" - I remember she was all like "No, I don't mean it that way, we'll have a date after work, blah blah blah"... .a week later I found out I was 100% correct.

I used up every penny I had and MORE.  It was OKAY though because this was the woman I loved and she loved me and we'd be together forever!  If we were broke, we'd sit on the curb together, that was her statement.

I litterally spent $30K, everything i had, as well as all the money from the piddly jobs I had done. At the end she says all she does is support me!  If there is a God (I know there is), can we do something like you did to the platypus to her?  Please?

You have been so nice to a person and is this how they thank you? Just let your ex be who she want's to be, I don't think she'll ever find a guy like you. She's the loser here just like my exBPD. You see that's why I started to hate her she never apologized to me and I mean it when I say I don't wish her well.

- I took her out on so many dinners, and I always paid and never allowed her to pay up for anything.

- I gave her a lot of attention.

- I always placed her on top priority.

- I always was ready for her when she needed me.

- If she had mood swings I always tried to calm her down.

- I took her once to a comedy show with me.

I wanted to give her a nice bracelet for her bday but she didn't invite me while she told me that her exBF forgot about her bday and he gave her something she didn't like. For me this was the end, this made me go out and look for an another partner. She's the one who lost a good partner, she told me once that every guy she dated wasn't nice for her like I was I assume she's the loser now.

I thank God for this experience just because of this experience I have met a girl who's even better compared to this piece of _____ exBPD of mine. At least she's someone who can take care of herself and isn't a complete loser like my exBPD. Sorry for sounding harsh but whenever I read these kind of experience's I get a little bit upset.

Nope, you are not harsh. After telling me that story, I know you treated her right. And you gave it your best shot. But just like Prettywoman told me in another thread... .being angry was not wrong.  I'm angry too and don't feel guilty for the anger. Because of that, I know it will go away. But it's going in stages, because stuff is coming to mind. Things like all I did, things I thought I was doing right and for the right reasons, and they turned to crap that never got recognized as things I did for US.  There was no US, there was her and me.  That sucks.  Thank you Username69 for your insight and fresh approach.  Guys like you and me may not have the perfect clinical answers and  solutions, but we share something that is common ground.  How could it be wrong if almost everyone feels this way.  How we deal with it is that "other story".

"What were those things that you did that they just took for granted or didn't appreciate?"

When I was questioned regarding injuries that were inflicted on me by my wife I didn't tell the authorities that she caused them even though she was in advance of that questioning supposedly prepared to be arrested. Never got even a thanks from her. Weeks later she rubbed it in that she payed for the medical bills related to that kind of like she was Santa Claus to me. What a warped brain she has.

Geez I can't even remember the details of all the financial support I provided my ex, but he never seemed to appreciate it and never paid me back for anything.  I'd say in total I probably spent well over $20K.  In the last couple years though I really put my foot down in regards to money so I probably spent the $20K in the course of 6 years.  Talk about a bad investment. 

I have similar stories, and money I could add up, including the SUV she let me buy her near the end of our r/s when she was already cheating.

What's the take-away here? Were our relationships reciprocal? Was our care taking a form of a hidden contract? That is to say, "I did all of this for you, yet you still treated me like garbage? If I do more, you're supposed to be nice." If so, why did we keep doing it?

Reading all your comments along with knowing what happened to me, it almost feels like she might have though:  Oh well, I'll let him stay, he's doing convenient sh** for me and I don't have the time nor energy to do it.  Oh, wait, I didn't like the way he said that, just who the heck does he think he is!  Oh, I've had enough, when is he gonna get the hell out of here, all I do is support him and he just stays home and jerks off all day!  (yep, she said that on more than one occasion).

Come to think of it, I'd rather be angry instead of being sad.  Seems that I have more "drive" in my life if I'm not feeling sad about her.  If I'm goal oriented, I'm at least moving forward and not in REVERSE going back in our life that doesn't exist anymore.

She's forgotten a lot I'm sure, but do you think she'll remember with her next victim?

I threw many soft balls at my ex but the best one was probably convincing a solicitor friend to help get her debts wiped. She has crippling debts and as a favour to me he was doing it pro bono. After he witnessed one of her episodes with me he washed his hands of her completely.

What a golden opportunity to a better life that was for her. Imagine wasting something like that. Mind boggling.

Yep!  Tripping over dollars to get to pennies!  LOL  I hate to be a labeler, but you just gotta admit when they were nothin' but stupid too!   Could it be justified stupid?  Could they be lucky enough to get away with not even taking the blame for stupid! 

Hey DyingLove,

What have you learned from this experience with your ex partner and finances?

• Paid her electric bill (was turned off) before we even physically met.



• Paid her rent once or twice at first place (that she lost)



• She lost her dwelling but I got the landlord to give three months without rent in the end.



• Totally moved her and I out of first place and into 2nd place.



• Paid one year rent in advance in second place (nearly 10K)



• Got her a phone on my plan in the beginning, paid majority of bill, she only had to pay about 20.



• Bought her the first pair of decent sneakers she's ever had



• Always gave her money and gift cards before moving with her.



• Bought her family a new tv for first christmas (in advance)



• Bought her daughter a camera and new netbook computer. (daughter turned into a real snot)



• Cleaned up the pigstye house of hers.  At least the Kitchen, LR and Bedroom and bathroom.

:sign_attn: What would you change about yourself moving forward?

I spent a lot of money in our r/s too. I washed my hands with trying to negotiate with my ex because I'd rather save myself from the emotional distress ( she took spent all of our finances and credit to exit the relationship ) My ex had walked away in her honeymoon phase and didn't want to settle the shared finances. I was left holding the bag and decided to focus on shared custody with a lawyer rather than the divorce.

I filed for bankruptcy protection and that initially stung and I also recognized that I didn't have financial boundaries. Live and learn  :)

Is the unstated assumption here that we are "owed" for what we gave in the relationship?  If so, that's our issue.  We can't give freely and then hold it against our partner.  That's not a healthy relationship.  When we give of ourselves in a healthy relationship - our time, our money, our love - we do so without expectations.  It is not buying something.  It's ok to have boundaries and it's ok to say no.  It's ok to want mutualism and a healthy give and take in our relationships.  It's ok to want to be seen.  It's a setup, however, to give freely to our partner and then hold it against them.  Perhaps something to work on in our future relationships.   :light:

I'm outI'm out so I have to keep this brief. It's not about holding it against them it's about the fact that they never egknowledge or realized what good things we do for them I would have done the same thing many times over for her with no expectations whatsoever but the relationship was over it was nothing that to be done at that point but I gave until I had nothing else to give and I don't hold it against her and during the break up I left many things there wish I could have taken everything but I didn't because my feelings for her and my own obligation human being in a 2 way relationship sorry affair a mistakes I'm trying to dictate

Unfortunately this concept is a rare experience.

I was always selfless, and never ran a tab of things I did with my ex.  Being selfless, however, is not a good idea for me anymore.  If I make an investment in someone, I expect a return. From now on.

Hey Mr.Downtrodden,

Are you comparing others with your ex partners and setting the expectations that you'll be mistreated?


Hey DyingLove,

Do you feel like you were over-trusting?

Mutt, while I felt that we WERE supposed to be together forever as she at least vowed, I feel I was cheated. Bait and switch kinda feeling.  Promised me forever and gave me 4 years. That wasn't the agreement. It wasn't the deal. So was I over trusting?  Maybe, but depending how you view it.  Like I said, I would have given her anything and everything with the expectation, AT LEAST, that the entire RS was not a lie.  So it's hard to get over this like it is all the other seemingly lies.

I get it. Can you see how "forever" is a black and white statement and how she sees things in black and white? A pwBPD have a psychological / emotional arrested development and often over exaggerate like a young child would?

Mutt, I'm not being a smart-butt, but I just don't get it, at least not what we are talking about.  Maybe I'm tired or something, but it's just not registering.  Can you elaborate please.  Thank you.

That's not the relationship dynamic that I would recommend to make, but it's your choice.  Do you find it healthy to make a relationship a transaction?  The real trouble is when we hold our own actions against our partner.  If you want a quid pro quo relationship, that's your choice.  It's still not at all fair to hold your own "spending" against them.  If you feel you aren't getting your money's worth, then perhaps it's time to spend your money elsewhere?

Hey DyingLove,

I understand. I get the sense that you're a little stuck? What our partners experienced in the relationship is something different than what we experienced. A lot of the behaviors are driven by the disorder and when she says that she'll love you forever were you being idealized at the time?

You sound like a nice guy that would give your shirt off of your back. Do you think maybe she knew she could take you for granted? If so, who's responsible for protecting their core values?

If the answer could be yes, I didn't see that she would be capable of using me.  Being in love, how could you even think that, right?  Now love has a handbook and one requirement is to watch your back. Maybe even wear a bulletproof vest, in case of a back stabbing attack!  I wasn't ready for that, I don't know if anyone is ready for that.  But if I was walking down the street and found a bag of hundred dollar bills, I might just pick it up and take it home. No one is the wiser.  WOuld anyone expect it of me?  Who knows,,,that nice guy DL would NEVER do something like that.  So, what was I to expect?  Blind? Naive? Ignorant?  Maybe Maybe Not.  Just a victim I say.  And thank you Mutt.  :-)

Hi DL,

The romantic promises are ultimately fluff I think. As time goes by and I replay her words and look back in my mind at the past scenes of the four year marriage I observe that she said much of that type of stuff like a robot. She said if we ever became poor she would be happy living with me in the woods. Later though she demanded that I try to become a CEO of a large corporation or I wasn't really a man because that's what all men do. lol

When you see them as totally disordered it is easier to understand it all and less painful. A member here has helped me with this lately.

Apart from all the emotional stuff financially I bought her a car. Paid her mortgage for seven months until her place sold. Paid the mortgage arrears. Bought a place big enough for her and her kids to live in. Paid for most of her kids birthday and christmas presents. Paid for holidays. Paid for her kids extra curricular activities not to mention household bills, food, car insurance etc etc.

Mr.Downtrodd, I agree about the investment.  Technically it sounds horrible and very business like, but damn, that is what it is!  We can easily go buy a blowup doll if we just want a female or male figurine to sit by us silently while we do the life thingie on our own,,,or better yet, we can buy a pet!  At least with a pet, some love you unconditionally but others just need the care, like snakes and lizards. Sex?  There are toys for that too, if we need.

So we've come to the conclusion here that an actual person is a good thing!  (my conclusion). We hate to mistrust or watch for red flags and you really can't even trust not even a parent or sibling to not have or suffer from some personality disorder.  It's like the house of mirrors in the twighlight zone!  Submitted for your approval... .(lol, great series)

I've noticed something lately-  I've been trying to just "be myself" and that involves less hand holding and caring about others (I'n not saying to discard others), and people either like me the same or better!  You really don't have to give until there is nothing left. People take care of themselves. AND, this is gonna be my new signature or tagline from Maya Angelou- When people show you who they are, believe them!  Can dispute that.

Mutt, I am a nice guy.  I'd even give you my shirt if you needed it, but once a person proves themselves to be a sh*t, the rules change.  The entire scenario with a loved one "looks" different though.  My ex didn't come out and say that in four years she was gonna be putting a hurtin' on me.  She smiled, did the sex nasty, made me feel good about myself here and there, and every now and then she threw some curve ball out there.  Made me think, but then say, Nah, it's nothin'.

I sometimes kick myself NOW for leaving the stuff I did behind. If anyone recalls I left the mattress the washer and some of my workout stuff.  She had the balls to insist I leave my led drop light that I just had bought too, so that she could fill her coolant in the dark morning. BS!  During the breakup procedure is when she showed her true self.  It's still sad to me, incredibly sad.  But a person capable of what she did; it's kinda like giving a daycare job to a child molester and think your kids are 100% ok. (they might be, it was just a silly example).  Getting back to the point, I left that stuff to please my heart.  It was material, could be replaced. Okay, so, she's got a job and a kid, and I looked with love on them and I feel better for it, but the logic in me says: Fk'em. Sorry, it's looking out for myself, and we ARE supposed to do that aren't we? She's got her entire dysfunctional family to cheer her on, they could have chipped in and bought her all the crap she needed. LOL  People scat like bugs when you need help or money!  Karma is a birtch!

I almost got to the car replacement category. Glad I didn't.  The minute I met her I felt the "heaviness" of the situation. I accepted it, because.  Now I'm glad it's all back on her.  Her life sucks.  I did the same with her kids, and a lot of things, I gotta say in all fairness that she did pay for a lot of stuff, but she had no regard for money whatsoever. So it was like a robot going to work and an 3 year old  spending money.

I can relate 1000%.  I supported by exBPDbf through graduate school, and he left a week before graduating.  He didn't even invite me, I am sure because he didn't want my replacement to see me around his family.   I went anyway and sat by myself.  I went for me - I had spent the last years just as invested and involved in that degree.  Our lives revolved around getting him through school - 1000%.  He now claims that he has to "be his own man" because the last 5 years have been "about me."  He is delusional.  His world has been, and will always be, about him.  He doesn't even see it.  I am angry and feel used.  I saw a quote yesterday that has stuck with me:  "The worst regret we can have in life is not for the wrong things we did, but for the thousands of right things we did for the wrong person." 

In the end, I just hope this doesn't burn my spirit.  I have such a loving and giving heart.  I don't want to lose that.  Just need to find the right person. 

It may be helpful, in de-personalizing these experiences, to understand that for many pwBPD, someone else giving them stuff or "helping" them, can feel like control, obligation, dependency.  It can be a really unpleasant aspect of the relationship.  If we have the idea that "I did X for him, he should love me for that," we are actually providing some basis for that feeling.

It's a different matter to give or care freely, without an expectation of acquiring an ownership interest.  That usually feels better on both sides.

That's a good perspective, I always suspected my uBPDex is strongly triggered by intimacy. On the last explosion, she specifically listed all the things I've purchased for the house (AC, groceries, tent that she wanted for camping, etc)

giving freely and financial boundaries were both mentioned, and there is a balance.

when we gave, were we expecting appreciation and/or reciprocity? thats not necessarily giving freely. when we didnt receive these things, did we continue giving? that may be a sign of unsteady financial, emotional, physical, etc, boundaries.

take a very simple example from a discussion ive had with my friends:

i feel inclined to hold the door open for people. id say at least 75% of them say thank you. when they dont, im , i think, rightfully annoyed. it boggles my mind, and i wouldnt hold the door open for that person again. i will continue to hold the door open for others not dependent on a thank you, but because i value doing it. it may be natural to be resentful when we dont feel appreciated for our giving, but how do we react when and if that happens? and do we resent ourselves for our reaction or lack thereof?

during that conversation a question was asked of me, and a thought was offered.

question: should we hold the door open with expectation of a thank you? (giving freely)

thought: man i really hate it when somebody holds the door open for me and im a mile away and have to jog to get to the door and then be expected to say thank you. (boundary)

a person can go from victim, to survivor, to thriver  :light:

www.goodtherapy.org/blog/victim-survivor-thriver-trauma-stages

I never felt the need for a thank you or pat on the back.  Rarely got either anyway.  BUT because I sorta gave under false pretenses, the pretense that my relationship was going to be forever, now I feel slighted.  A thank you will NOT help at this point. It was a learning experience for sure.

I see that "tit for tat" keeps getting mentioned in this post, and that is not what this was all about.  It was about the fact that they should have noticed at least by now, the things we did for them.  In other words, after my breakup, does she realize that now she's got to come home and do the cooking cleaning and laundry, and before, it was all done by me (most of it).  Is she saying that: Gee I miss that he did it!

This is an excellent question.

I think what we have to keep our focus on here is that when we give, we are the ones who are acting.  This is us.  We are the ones who are making the choice.  We can't shirk that responsibility and we can't cast the blame on anyone else.  If we are unhappy with our choices, then we need to look at the person responsible.  :light:

Are we happy with the choices we made?  Why did we make the choices we did?  Would we do it again?  How would we know what to do in the future?

I agree with DyingLove, my reflections of of my r/s with my uBPD ex gf is not about anger felt for 'tit for tat' on an item by item basis.  Never was.  I did a lot for her during our time together, from being an emotional support / listener and forgiving soul to totally cleaning out her backyard -  which was a complete mess), cleaning her place (she was/is lazy) and even during our post r/s get together, when she was thug-robbed due to her own impulsiveness, I lent her some $$$.   She told me she'd repay me when she got back home, and I told her it was no big deal, because she was unhurt from the event. In the end, she just refused to talk with me (when I checked in to see how she was doing a couple of days later), so, I  turned off the friendship light, closed the door and went NC. Yeah. I'm in control now.

I'm looking at it from a perspective like DyingLove - the overall r/s.  Yes, I gave more. More than I should have, in all honesty. And I forgave... .the cheating, the manipulations, many times under the guise of her taking responsibility.  In the end, it was one continuous lie traveling down a dim-lit winding road. I hoped her words and promises would be true and valid - that's what I mean when I expect a return on my investment of my emotions and time spent together.

I'm not doing that anymore.

This forum and everything that transpired has provided me with a handy-dandy road map for the future.  I'm not driving down BPD lane anymore.  I'm not going to let myself be love bombed  and promises of the Days Of Wine and Roses.  I'm going to be tough emotionally to the point where it might interfere. The next woman i meet, it will be on equal footing emotionally, going slow and natural. I'll be giving to her, since that is my nature, if she turns out to be worth it.  

Nicely and accurately put Mr.downtrodden.  My exact sentiments. We did for them because we loved them.  We were glad to give. Exactly.  But we wonder if they ever think about how good they had it? How much we gave them?  How little they may have given in return?  We already know what we did and how they reacted, but today, are they seeing the light?  Have they or will they learn anything? will they ever have remorse if something was their fault truely?  All these things.  They won't heal us completely, but its' nice to know that somewhere down the line they lowered the iron curtain and saw what actually was.  It's all in conversation, unless you expect your ex to call up and say: By the way, thanks for taking better care of me than I would myself!  Ain't never gonna happen.

i think i get it. you dont just feel unappreciated, you feel stabbed in the back by the person you gave to. that is certainly different from a person who doesnt receive a thank you from a stranger they held the door open for, and that breeds a unique pain. you feel betrayed by someone close to you.

"My exact sentiments. We did for them because we loved them.  We were glad to give. Exactly.  <----giving freely

"But we wonder if they ever think about how good they had it? How much we gave them?  How little they may have given in return?  We already know what we did and how they reacted, but today, are they seeing the light?  Have they or will they learn anything? will they ever have remorse if something was their fault truely?  All these things." <----even expecting this in hindsight, is not giving freely.

but id ask, have you accepted that this person has a personality disorder and experiences thoughts, feelings, life in general, very differently than you? i understand youre "out", but have you lowered your expectations? its not fair to expect more out of a person than we know theyre capable of. ive had friends i felt i was a great friend to when they needed me, but when i needed them, id have been better off talking to a brick wall. lowering my expectations has improved those friendships, lowered my resentment (a common side effect when we expect more of a person than they can give), and i have reasonably adjusted what i give. its in my power. especially when it comes to a PD, accepting it helps a great deal as far as depersonalizing what feels very personal.

and i understand that it still feels very personal. i spent time with my ex even when id have preferred not to, because i was worried about how shed feel in my absence. so having been quickly and suddenly replaced, i experienced thoughts like "ARE YOU KIDDING ME? IF ID HAVE KNOWN SHE WAS CAPABLE OF THAT ID HAVE ENDED IT FAR SOONER." my relationship transpired as it did. it was easier for me to accept when i realized any given alternative, i might have coped with worse. what if id ended it and then was replaced? could i have handled that? im not sure. but it didnt help me to beat myself up for what seemed like mistakes at the time. furthermore, i made progress when i realized that pain was tied to my expectations.

you are expecting this person to see the light. try to lower your expectations of that. as far as your questions are concerned, i think you answered them:

"It's all in conversation, unless you expect your ex to call up and say: By the way, thanks for taking better care of me than I would myself!  Ain't never gonna happen."

so what does it matter? you will likely never know what your ex will think or learn. its about you now and what lessons you will learn. have you been taught that giving more of yourself than you would prefer to give is a normal relationship? do you feel you need to prove love? do you feel resentful as a result? do you feel material possessions are expected of you to give? is any of this a pattern, or just a one time learning experience?

any or none of these may apply to you. what im getting at is, what do you feel is the wound keeping you stuck?

My exBPDgf showed remorse lots of times. It kept me hooked. The behaviors persisted.

What you wrote above? It doesn't work that way. If you were devalued, you triggered a core wound. That means the reaction you got from your ex was from her childhood. Seeing the light comes from self awareness and until someone is uncomfortable enough to see things need to change it's doubtful it will. That goes equally for nons. Your value was to sooth the pain from past hurts.

They will find someone else who has poor boundaries, find the hook and idolize them just like they did you so that they can distract themselves from the pain of the core wound trigger. This is not love, this is need.


We nons spent plenty of time not taking care of ourselves by not having good boundaries when we started to see things weren't reciprocal. We loved the idolization phase because we were missing something too.

For me, my relationship centered around "family", my ex and her children were an instant family, it was the family I never had. It gave me purpose and worth. That was the hook for me. What was the hook for you? Think back, what were you missing when you found your ex and allowed her to put you on a pedestal?

I loaned a months' rent to an old family friend. Kind of like a little sister. She's dBPD (and several other co-morbid mental illnesses). I asked her point-blank: "how are you going to pay me back?" She said when her tax return came. That time has come and gone, and I haven't gotten so much as an effort to pay me back a cent. I knew at the time it was a gift. I know who she is, and her history since I knew her as a kid 30 years ago. Sure, we aren't in a romantic r/s (though the possibilitiy was there back in the day). I know her history, how she's limited, and who she is. Given the lack of effort on paying it back, I'd never do it again. It is how it is.  Her brother stopped short of calling me stupid, realizing who I am.

What's unhealthy is doing for others with an agenda, hidden or otherwise.  With my Ex, I did it again and again, expecting something in return, even though I already knew who she was.

Everything I did was supposedly building towards a stable future. I now see it as their childlike sense of entitlement. As a child everything is taken care of for you. You have no responsibilities. This emotional imaturirity is what we have been dealing with.

What were those things that you did that they just took for granted or didn't appreciate.

I cooked (from scratch) anything he wanted. I read labels and kept the salt intake low, because high blood pressure runs deep in his side of the family.

I cleaned. The house, laundry, the cars, took out the trash 8 out of 10 weeks.

I mowed the lawn, kept the gardens.

I raised a lot of our food (huge garden, small orchard) and canned. Made home made applesauce, jams, jellies, etc.

I home educated the kids from grade 3 to graduation.

I made a menu for the week, grocery shopped, and prepared those dishes.

I baked (always something sweet on the cake plate!).

I paid all the bills, handled all the repairmen / insurance issues, etc.

I negotiated all big ticket purchases.

I painted, learned how to hang drywall, did small repairs around the home; and what I could not do, I would buy the items needed for that repair and bring them home so he could fix it.

Oh, and I worked outside of the home! For 6 summers, along with my regular job, I worked a 2nd job so my son could play travel sports. Off and on for the last 15 years I have had 2 or 3 jobs at the same time.

I worked 4-6 nights a week.

We have three AMAZING kids together... .and he's an 'out of site out of mind' kind of guy... .he rarely if ever texts the girls, never calls them or tries to see them. He only communicates with the boy, because in HIS MIND the boy is 'my favorite'... .it's so messed up.

I talked to him, I cared about him

I loved him.

I was there for him, no matter what.

I supported our family for almost 2 years while he went to college to get his degree.

I encouraged him to go back to school to finish his degree.

I was his cheerleader... .propping him up.

When he got fired, I stayed calm; told him everything would be ok, and made sure that it was.

At the end of the day, he appreciated nothing.

It was 'never good enough' or 'just plain not enough'.

I could give him the moon and the stars on a sliver platter and he would say "oh, i wanted a planet too' and when I gave that it would be "oh, the one with the rings around it" and I would give that, then he'd say "oh, but I like gold platters' and I would give that and he would say "this isn't going to work out, you're too difficult".

What?

Yeah, welcome to my OLD life. HA HA

My hope is that one day I will meet someone and I will have a healthy 2 way relationship where I receive as much as I give; and it's because we genuinely love each other, and WANT to give and receive in a healthy way.

i think i get it. you dont just feel unappreciated, you feel stabbed in the back by the person you gave to. that is certainly different from a person who doesnt receive a thank you from a stranger they held the door open for, and that breeds a unique pain. you feel betrayed by someone close to you.

"My exact sentiments. We did for them because we loved them.  We were glad to give. Exactly.  <----giving freely


Yep, Freely.


"But we wonder if they ever think about how good they had it? How much we gave them?  How little they may have given in return?  We already know what we did and how they reacted, but today, are they seeing the light?  Have they or will they learn anything? will they ever have remorse if something was their fault truely?  All these things." <----even expecting this in hindsight, is not giving freely.


Here is the twist-> They broke the rules!  How does forever translate to only four years?  I have to say BAIT AND SWITCH on their part, sick or not.


but id ask, have you accepted that this person has a personality disorder and experiences thoughts, feelings, life in general, very differently than you? i understand youre "out", but have you lowered your expectations? its not fair to expect more out of a person than we know theyre capable of. ive had friends i felt i was a great friend to when they needed me, but when i needed them, id have been better off talking to a brick wall. lowering my expectations has improved those friendships, lowered my resentment (a common side effect when we expect more of a person than they can give), and i have reasonably adjusted what i give. its in my power. especially when it comes to a PD, accepting it helps a great deal as far as depersonalizing what feels very personal.   I do accept, and at the same time I don't accept!


A toddler should not be behind the wheel of a car, nor pretending to be an adult. We all see justice differently. And justice does not necessarily mean a lynching either.


and i understand that it still feels very personal. i spent time with my ex even when id have preferred not to, because i was worried about how shed feel in my absence. so having been quickly and suddenly replaced, i experienced thoughts like "ARE YOU KIDDING ME? IF ID HAVE KNOWN SHE WAS CAPABLE OF THAT ID HAVE ENDED IT FAR SOONER." my relationship transpired as it did. it was easier for me to accept when i realized any given alternative, i might have coped with worse. what if id ended it and then was replaced? could i have handled that? im not sure. but it didnt help me to beat myself up for what seemed like mistakes at the time. furthermore, i made progress when i realized that pain was tied to my expectations.

you are expecting this person to see the light. try to lower your expectations of that. as far as your questions are concerned, i think you answered them:

"It's all in conversation, unless you expect your ex to call up and say: By the way, thanks for taking better care of me than I would myself!  Ain't never gonna happen."

so what does it matter? you will likely never know what your ex will think or learn. its about you now and what lessons you will learn. have you been taught that giving more of yourself than you would prefer to give is a normal relationship? do you feel you need to prove love? do you feel resentful as a result? do you feel material possessions are expected of you to give? is any of this a pattern, or just a one time learning experience?


In a sense, it does matter. Why? Because I'm here. This place is for me and you and others that need to talk and blurt things out that would otherwise cause misery to hold in.  We need to talk and to do it here.  So just as everything in BPD is something to learn, so is this.



any or none of these may apply to you. what im getting at is, what do you feel is the wound keeping you stuck?



Believe me, I'm getting better, but I am still part of the residue of that explosion.  I have scars that will always be there no matter how much skin grows over them.  I wish I was an etch-a-sketch, turn me upside down and shake, and Voila!  It's all gone.  Thank you OnceRemoved, Just as I needed to speak, you needed to answer.  It's all important, every last word.

Suzn, Yes she put me on the pedestal, I don't think she knew what to do exactly, so she did it all, especially sex.  I did love the Loving and the Pretty Face and, oh that Smile that killed me!   Show me someone that doesn't need anything.  I'd like to learn from them.  I think there is something, a hook, that everyone needs and wants or at least likes!  Thank you Suzn.   I think if I could have seen how "adopting" a new family was gonna go, that would have been the deal killer.  But I tackle all types of hard jobs, and I knew it wouldn't be easy, but still I did it and did not give up.  More than I can say for her.  Not a good way to be starting a Fathers Day.  She took the kid from me too (just as an afterthought). What a mean cruel thing to do.

Everyone needs something. I think it's a matter of if you can derive satisfaction from within

Yes, freely, and for 25 years.


No, he's a negative pessimist.

Nope, no matter what, it was never 'enough'

He thinks because he went to work and paid bills, and that's IT, he did all the giving... .

Nope, his NPD / ASPD evilness will not allow him to see light.

Nope. He's the smartest person on earth. Just ask him.

Nope.

I gave freely. When ever (rarely) he gave, it came with a heavy cost... .and I had to pay.



We are each, wonderfully and uniquely Created. So, by this definition, everyone is very different than everyone.

I have more respect for myself, and my children, than to 'lower my expectations.

True, never expect to receive from someone, something they have no capacity to give... .and never give to a person, who is the Dead Sea... .always taking in, never giving out, and when you step into the Sea, you die because NOTHING lives in the Dead Sea; the salt poisons everything.

I have more respect for my self than to stay in a relationship that is abusive.

I am worth more than that.


Boundaries. Firm, boundaries.

Learning what is healthy, and what is unhealthy and what is abusive.

Choosing, healthy, and settling for nothing less.

At first, yes, I wanted everyone to know what I did and what he took advantage of. In time, ZERO spits given. I don't care what anyone thinks, I don't care what he tells anyone. The kids lived thru it, witnessed it, and all 3 know he's a master manipulator. And God knows. So I really don't give a fart about anyone else.

BUT that took time.

Lived Learned, by the Grace of God, I will not repeat the mistakes that I made for 25 years

There is NO excuse for Abuse.

The suggestions that the generosity some of us showed our exes were about keeping tabs are a bit unsavoury in my opinion.

I agree.

I'd like to invite you to read through the Lessons on the Staying board. When I did this I started to realize what I was lacking in the skills department. I started to realize that there were similarities in my and my exes behavior patterns. I started to realize that my own behavior patterns extended to everyone in my life, not just my exBPDgf.

Why did we do this? Because we can. We can heal, we can grow. I had a choice to continue to stay stuck in this anger and continue to paint my ex black or I could make changes in myself going forward. It's work, that's why it's called working on yourself. What will you chose?

The Lessons in Staying are here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206

The skills here are what it takes to be in a healthy relationship, with a pwBPD or otherwise.

This is an outstanding post, PnC.   |iiii   Lots of wisdom here.

Are we giving in hopes of getting?  Are we caretaking in hopes that we will taken care of ourselves?  Is this healthy love or is this need?  Where might we have learned this behavior?

Let's remember that this is not abuse.  We are the ones who are acting when we give.  We may be hurt by our partner's indifference and lack of reciprocation, but that is not the same as abusing us.  The only abuse here is for ourselves.   Why do we continue to give to someone when we resent them for it?  Is that healthy?

Edit:  I also think that PnC's point about holding our partner in bondage is equally excellent.  Were we seeking to hold them in the relationship?  Are they in debt to us?  Do we realize how this plays right into the bondage and persecution fears of the disorder?  These are very important things to be thinking about in our healing.   Lots of room for us to grow here.  Myself included.  I am also a fixer and rescuer.

Great posts, patientandclear and cosmonaut! |iiii

Patientandclear's post is good. Very eloquent and worth considering. Cosmonaut's comments seem more like projection but hey ho, each to their own. We all have our ways of approaching things.

I'm aware that my generous nature isn't always valued but I still don't identify with the idea that I was keeping tabs on my ex. If that's what it was about I'd be showering my enemies in gifts.

There is a difference between buying them and providing for them. I didnt buy my ex a car to win her over. It was her idea. As we had four kids it made sense to get a family car. She suggested it. She suggested she trade her car in.

A lot of the things I was coerced into. Yes I did a lot of rescuing but that didnt stop her from taking advantage.

I don't think I was ever coerced into helping her. I volunteered my help because that's the kind of person I am. I have extended my help and support wastefully many times before but after her I'm getting better at not doing that.

An example. A year and a half ago I wired money to my now ex so she could make the long journey to visit her son who was in remand for armed robbery. Last week I went with my current girlfriend who was buying a car with her own money. My contribution went no further than making sure the car was in good order. That's quite a difference in only 18 months. Being able to look after yourself is a very attractive feature in a person.

*mod*


This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .