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I really shouldn't say, "Out of Nowhere", but you know what I mean.   lol  My wife and I had plans to cook dinner together this evening at her house.  We had texted this morning and everything was fine.  Out of the blue a few minutes ago she texted, "I am cancelling for tonight."  I asked if everything was ok and she responded with, "No.  I'm making a clean break from you and all the issues.  My daughter will not be joining your team either.  I want our divorce finalized by the end of August.  Please tell me what it will take to get you to sign the papers.  :)on't ignore me, ML."  I responded with, "Obviously you are upset about something.  I would like to know what it is and I'm here if you want to talk."  She said, "I'm not upset, just want to finalize our divorce.  What do you want in the decree?  Stop avoiding my request."  She must have gotten a call from her lawyer.  I haven't answered again.    

Wow, I'm sorry.  I certainly know the feeling when things drastically change at the snap of a finger, and it leaves us spinning.  A call from her lawyer is a good guess.  Or, it could have been a conversation with a friend, an article she read on the internet, or just too much time to think.  The reality here is, whatever the problem, it's not yours to solve.  Best you can do is take care of yourself, let her know you are available to talk, and leave the rest up to her.  Trying to force and explanation out of her right now is likely to result in disaster.

I'm really sorry man. I feel your pain. I heard the same thing Sunday.

One thing my therapist said here recently was very helpful for me. She said, "It seems like you are exerting a lot of effort to reconcile and that she isn't doing much to try. When I counsel couples in your situation, without fail, the ones that make it through are the ones that have both parties working hard to repair the marriage. When I see someone that is giving as little as your wife is, I don't see it succeeding."

I said, "So should I just start ignoring her then?"

She said, ":)on't ignore  her, but stop exerting all of this effort to repair the relationship. If it is going to work out, she is going to have to decide that she wants it to work out. Let her instigate any meetings or conversation and make sure to keep your guard up whenever it does happen."

I decided to do that. I have tried to be nice, but I have stopped asking her to try. I will talk to her, ask her questions, and tell her where my feelings are, but I won't ask her to take any action. Things have improved moderately since then, but that was only because SHE has started to take some action.

Things may end up working out for us and they may not. The only way they will though is if she takes the action to do it.

Above all, my question is how does this make YOU feel?

Hi ML,

it really must feel like 'out of nowhere' given the last couple of weekends you've had together  

Just wait and see now until she tells you what's really going on for her.

The funny thing is, I'm not even spinning.  I've gotten good at taking care of myself and staying centered in situations like this.  it is kind of sad that when her lawyer calls (and that is my guess that is what this is and would make sense) its almost like a reminder that she is "supposed to be mad at me" for all that I've "done wrong".   :)  This happens every two-three weeks I think when he doesn't hear from her and gives her a jolt of anxiety and anger about the situation she has painted herself into.  It's not that hard to get out of.  She should just say, "I've decided that right now I don't want to continue to pursue this and will call you if something changes."  I think the hardest thing I have had to come to accept is that other people's opinions mean more to her than mine a lot of the time.  I'll be honest, this stuff hardly phases me anymore.  Either I'm numb or just much stronger than I used to be.  Or both.


Thanks.  Honestly, I'm not exerting the effort I used to because I understand the disorder so much better.  it keeps me centered and less focused on her crap.  I feel fine.  A little like, "Crap, here we go again." at first, but no biggie.  I realized it for what it was almost immediately.


I'm going to.  I'm realizing this trigger is more "out of nowhere" for her rather than me because I understand the cycle of things so much better. 

Extinction burst time.   :)  She just texted me again and said, "What do you want in the decree?  Stop avoiding my request."  I'm not responding. 

Is there any downside to letting her just serve you papers?

No, and I still don't think it ever comes to that.  I think her lawyer is trying to get more money out of her as money makes her anxious and dysregulate.  I truly think she's at a crossroad with this and it hits her more and more the closer we get to each other again.  She either loses me through a divorce, or loses any "control" she is desperately trying to cling to.  The other night it seemed to calm her when I told her I didn't want a divorce.  I guess it's still too difficult to tell her lawyer she wants to hold off on it.  It makes her look "weak" I guess.  I'm not thinking too much into anything as she could have gotten upset that Kermit the frog is green... .:). I'm just going to let her be.

Good plan.  Take care of you.  If she wants to serve you papers, let her serve you papers.  Don't get involved in her dysregulation beforehand.  What would be the point in responding to her?  None. 

She texted again and said, ":)on't ignore me ML, it will only make matters worse.  I need to hear from you before noon tomorrow!"   lol. Seriously?  She's so mad I'm not answering her.

I'm actually proud of myself that I don't give in to her threats anymore.  I am dealing with a tad of anxiety but know her threats are smoke and mirrors and she's looking for an outlet.  It's weird how quick everything can change.  That is still a shock at times.  I would like to know what actually happened today with her though.  I really wish she could tell me what is going on and we could talk through it. 

So I woke up this morning and realized what may have set my wife off.  In her text about cancelling our evening together yesterday, she made the comments "making a clean break from all the issues" and about our daughter "not joining your team".  I now think those were the key statements and here's why.  We were going over stuff about the team over the weekend at her house and had my team notebook (we were taking notes in it) that I keep all my notes in.  I left it at her house.  It had honest player assessments (all coaches input) of all my players in it with strengths, weaknesses among other things (nothing rude, but instead truth about where each player is).  I think she read our daughters assessment and triggered her.  I could see how it would bother someone without BPD, but someone with?  Yeah.  That is on top of her watching practice the night before and she made the statement to me, "She is the worst on the team now."  Both of those things together could be a volatile cocktail.  I know I shouldn't be worried about why she is dysregulating, but now I feel stupid for leaving that over there.  I feel stupid.  That was information that could be hurtful (even though true), and understand why that would trigger her.  Especially knowing these notes were from a coaches meeting and other coaches had input.  Geez I'm dumb.  

I'm sorry ML, but you are so not dumb. BPD or not, yes this might have triggered your wife, but your professional assessment of members of the team are perfectly valid, that's your job.

You leaving the notebook there did not trigger your wife, your wife was triggered by what she read, if that was the trigger. There is a difference. So go easy on yourself, part of personal growth as you know is accepting that your wife's triggers are not your responsibility. 

I think you are doing the right thing,don't be tempted to blame yourself. |iiii

If someone has their foot on the brake save energy and take yourself out of gear, and its not up to you to put it in reverse either. Just idle a while and see what unfolds.

I know that, but in situations like this I have to question my own sanity... .lol... .I feel like this could have been avoided by not leaving my notebook (again, if that was the trigger), but something else might have triggered her too.


I know that deep down.


That is a great way to put it. 


It took me a long time to get here.


Definitely going to idle and see how this unfolds.  Again, I don't think it's about divorce at all, that is just her go to "stab" and she's finding it doesn't work anymore.

So my wife's "noon deadline" for telling her what I want in the divorce has come and gone.  It must really get her that I "don't fall for no banana in the tailpipe" anymore.   :) lol  She is probably still a little shocked at times that I stay centered and grounded without heating up in these situations when I didn't used to.     

I would also add that you did not show the notebook to your wife, or choose to share her daughter's assessment from it. Your wife was snooping in something that really wasn't her business. Probably looking for some trouble, and she found something to make it over.

Ya got two choices, here, man:

1. Remove yourself completely from her life, so you won't trigger her.

2. Do your best... .and she will get triggered sometimes. If she decides to divorce you over it... .well... .that was the other option anyhow.

You are still posting on staying; you've made your choice.

Just an example of the fact that pwBPD have no real boundaries, hence many of the threats and demands are just that, and why we don't need to jump at them.They are not thought out and are rarely deal breakers. Be aware though that lack of compliance can throw them further into chaos having a flow on effect, so give things plenty of time to settle.

It gets tiring trying to engage conflict when no one else is feeding it

 

Hang in there ML!   |iiii

Yep, that's true.  I think after attending practice the other night while reading my assessment, it hit her how much harder her daughter needs to work to get better.  I think she is afraid of spending the money for her to play and her not putting in the work to get better.  It's easier to quit by blaming me for something than her daughter possibly sitting the bench because she won't put in the work.  She would see that as a failure I guess.  The thing is, my two daughters have quite a bit of work to do also.  So she shouldn't feel bad. 

My wife texted me out of the blue today and asked me a random question.  I answered and she came to practice and worked on my player files.  She left a bit later and I told her Inwould call her.  I called her later and everything seemed fine.  It was like nothing ever happened.   .  She's learning my boundary of healthy communication and that I don't react to her crap anymore.  I notice she is regulating her emotions way more quickly as my boundaries of healthy communication stay strong and firm.  I'm actually surprised she regulated them this quick. 

Almost comes as a shock when it works. |iiii

I have to confess that I am surprised.  I assume if a person tells me they want a divorce, they actually want a divorce.  It shows how little I understand BPD.

They actually do want a divorce... .in that moment

Once that moment is gone... .and they are sensing and feeling new emotions... .the previous moment is ancient history.

FF

Sometimes I feel this way too!  Especially when things come out of nowhere.


Exactly, that's why it's so important not to validate that emotion (if that isn't what you want) in that moment as to not make that reality to them.  That's why when she dysregulates and brings that up I do two things.  

    If it is texting, I may say, "I see that you are upset and when you are ready to talk about it, I am here."  depending on the situation.  Whether I do that or not, I then cut off communication IMMEDIATELY.  It reaffirms my boundary that I WILL NOT have unhealthy communication with her.  She is upset and I won't be raged at, and barraging me with divorce CRAP is.  I understand she is trying to deal with her hurt, anger, or whatever overwhelming emotion she is feeling in that moment in the only way she knows how.  I just don't tolerate it anymore.  I then let her be for several days until she contacts me.  It's now about 2 days.  It used to be 2 weeks or longer about 8 months ago.  

    Second, if we are in person, I say, "I hear what you're saying.  I understand."  I then reaffirm that divorce isn't what I want, reaffirm that we can get through the hard things in our r/s together, and change the subject or leave the room.  If we are in person, she may bring this up because we have touched on something that is very hard for her to handle (like the issue last weekend about her childhood).  I've also noticed that when she does bring up divorce when we are together, her reaction has now changed to my boundary.  When I give my response, I see her kind of shake her head in frustration, but it is a frustration that I won't fight and it is no longer a trigger for me.  She now knows she's lost a lot of control and in a way, it's helped regulate her lately.

    Because of this boundary that I have set, she is regulating her emotions much quicker than she used to, and the silent treatment is lessening by leaps and bounds.  I am grateful and it is awesome.  Boundaries are a MUST to turn things around.  

Well... .validation during dysregulation doesn't usually go very far anyway... .but my take is that validating the emotion would be fine.

What absolutely isn't good to do here is engage in the game she is playing. She's doing this to get a reaction from you, or control your behavior. The less reaction she gets, the less reason she has to do it again.




|iiii   Yes indeed they are. You're doing so well with them these days!

Its catastrophizing, things can't be just a little broke, they have to be completely ruined, beyond salvation, hopeless, the sky is falling in.

The solution can't be a step back they have to be run for the hills.

You can validate that you see they ar having issues, but be careful not to validate the  prognosis or solution. Dont get into debate about consequences when tension is high

eg I can see you are upset, we can talk though this later when things are less tense.

     I spent the afternoon with my wife and youngest stepdaughter today and had a great time.  We went and had dinner and laughed and had a great time.  We dropped our daughter at her house and ran another errand.  We started driving (in her car so not a whole lot I could do) and a few minutes in she hit me up with the divorce and boy did she try and trigger me every way possible with no success!  :).  I stayed completely calm the whole time and even took my time to answer most of the time.  She even pulled out the "big guns" at times.   lol.  

    She said, "What is it going to take to get the divorce finalized before the end of August?  I can't get approved for financial aid for my son if our incomes are "together"."  I said, "I can understand how difficult that must be to think about."  She said, "Yeah especially when I have them on my own."  I said "It doesn't have to be that way and we could help them through college together."  She said, "How can we help them through college when we aren't living together?"  I said, "That's why we would work toward moving back into the same household."  She said, "I'm not moving back in with someone I'm not married to."  About that time, we pulled into the parking lot and I said, "Let me run in here and look at these shoes."  She responded with, "Yeah, let's not finish the conversation and I didn't respond."  We went in and everything seemed fine.  

    We got back into the car and I said, "You want to rent a movie?"  She said, "Yeah, let's rent, "How to be divorced in 30 days."  I said, "I was thinking more along the lines of Taken 3.  It has a much better ending."   :)  lol.  She said, "Why won't you work on this divorce with me and stop ignoring me?"  I responded with, "I won't be a part of something I don't believe in."  She said, "So let me get this straight... .You won't sign divorce papers if I send them to you?  You will make me spend the money to pay for mediation and lawyer fees to get this done when you could just sign papers."  I said, "I haven't wanted this divorce from the beginning and have made that clear.  I stand for the marriage and what you choose to do is your choice."  She said, "It's always about you.  If you stood for the marriage you would have been a better husband throughout our marriage.  You wouldn't have had an emotional affair or stepped outside our vows (I didn't do either one).  You would have gotten counseling when I asked you.  You never made it about me.  If you really wanted to show me you cared you would make this easy for me and sign the papers."  How ridiculous and ironic is that?   :) *)  I said, "I'm sorry you feel that way.  I've asked for counseling since our separation."  She said, "Yeah, it will have to go before the judge and he will not make it easy on you and I will call ML and ML's wife's good friends (named them by name and have confided in the husband a lot) to the stand and they will have to testify what all you've told them."  I said, "Ok, and they are very truthful people so I have nothing to worry about.  I trust them completely."  She said, "The judge will make it very difficult for you.  Why do you want to do that to yourself?"  "Because I care about you and the children and want to give them the life that we never had with two parents who love them."  We pulled into the garage and I said, "I'm looking forward to getting some of that really good water that our daughter made."  She said, "I'll get you some bottled water and you can just go home."  I said, "Ok."  She brings me some water and said, "You know how sad it is that you can't just move on with your life knowing we're never getting back together."  I responded that I hear what she's saying but still believe we can get through these things, told her I loved her and the children."  I then left.  She did everything she could to trigger me to no avail.  I think she was shocked at how I never raised my voice and always remained calm.  It feels like she is going through an extinction burst right now with trying to find my "weak spot".  Thoughts anyone?

Another thing I'm beginning to notice is when she hangs out with this other woman (had lunch with her yesterday) from her church who is also going through a divorce or a very difficult marriage (can't figure out which one) she gets into this mood.  I saw a picture of them two yesterday (she showed me today) and realized she has made herself look a lot like her and they kind of look alike anyway.  After we split up, she changed her hair color to dark about the same time they started hanging out.  Obviously she is mirroring her.

I read this one article that divorce is contagious.  If you get a divorce, your circle of family/friends are more likely to get a divorce too.

Your wife tried to get you to talk about divorce via Text, which didn't work, so now she is trying to get you to talk about it in person instead.  I don't know much about divorce, but my guess is the fastest way to get a divorce is to be really mean to you so that you agree to the divorce.  I hope she doesn't take that route.

My wife texted me today and showed up to our team tryout for new players and acted like the conversation last night never took place.  We ended up going to dinner together and had a nice time.  We talked about the team and tryouts.  Then we got into some personal things about her again.  She told me that the IRS took another 2000 dollars from her and I validated how tough that had to be on her.  I realize this is one reason she has been so triggered lately at times.  When I saw that she was getting really emotional, I offered to go and get refills of our drinks.  After getting the refills, we continued to talk about other stuff and she started crying about her dad and mom and I validated how hard that must be for her.  I held her hand while she cried and just listened.  She said she felt so alone and I validated that as best as I could.  I told her I was here for her.  She said, "Please, just don't.  I know you're trying to help, but please don't."  I just said, "OK."  I changed the subject and we talked about the kids and their extra curricular a this year.  Shortly after that I walked her to her car holding her hand, gave her a hug and kiss and we went our separate ways for the evening.  It must be hard for her to be so all over the place emotionally.  I wonder what she thinks about me at times.  She must be very confused.

She consistently pushes on the divorce when finances are stressing her. This time it was financial aid and the IRS. I'm not sure what she thinks the judge is going to do - order you to repay her IRS and 401k Debby? It sounds as if that's what she wants but isn't being up front about.

I realize this.  But I'll tell you, now that I have my "healthy communication" boundary, she is doing much better and her ST is almost non-existent anymore.  I have to believe that she is attracted to the strength in me of having those boundaries, standing for what I believe in, and not backing down.  We now spend a lot more time together than we used to and our time together (95%) is happy, fun and loving toward one another.  The other 5% or less is her getting emotional and I validate and just listen or her bringing up divorce and I just stand firm in my boundary.  The other night when we were at dinner we were discussing plans for a future.  Strange how their mind works.  


She has threatened me with the judge ordering me to pay it recently but I told her that I'm only responsible for 50% of the IRS debt and she knew that and they couldn't hold me to more than that.  I also told her I didn't want to hear about it again.  She didn't bring it up again.  Finances are a huge stressor to her and I understand that.  She is going through this because of her choices of splitting up.  I'm sure she has to see the truth there on some level.  

 

ML,

Momentum is going in the right direction for you... .and I believe your r/s.

You see to have a pattern established... .you are doing well validating... .and listening (to appropriate things)

With school starting and schedules changing... .there could be an upset... .think about this... .and be ready. 

She is not bringing up the past... .and you aren't either... .this is good.

I like how when appropriate... .you clearly state that you don't want divorce... .and then you move along.  She may not like it (at the time)... .but I think this is showing her strength.

Hang in there and keep up the good work

FF

I admire how you are handling it all!

I believe so too!


I'm trying.  i see that she is opening up to me a lot more than previously so that is a start.


That's a good heads up.  I didn't even think about that!  


She did try the other night and even embellished on her version of the truth when she brought up divorce with me "cornered".  I said the truth about what she brought up one time and then said, "I'm not going to argue with you about that or say it again.  I refuse." and either she tried a different way to get me to JADE which I didn't, stayed quiet or said, "I'm sorry you feel that way.  Each time, she went on to something else to try and "poke" me with.  You're right though, I won't bring it up... .It does no good, even if she was healthy.


I'm trying.  It's obvious she is looking for somewhere to vent her frustration over finances, hurt about her FOO, the kids and I don't mind being there for her in a healthy manner.  I just won't be raged or dysregulated at.  it's strange that most of her issues would be solved if we were living together and working on our marriage.  Last night, she mentioned that she is not sure what to do about the kids dad and their activities, especially with the oldest being a senior in high school this year.  She said the kids don't want anything to do with him anymore.  I told her i felt that the right thing to do whether he comes or not is to invite him.  I told her I would love to come and just let me know when they are.  She said she would ask the kids if they "want me there" as she doesn't want it to be "awkward" for them.  I said, "I understand and don't want them to feel awkward."  The truth is probably more that she would feel awkward.  The truth doesn't line up with what she has told people.  She also mentioned our son possibly going into the military and I validated how hard that must be to let him go if that is what he chooses as that is her "baby".  He really can't as he would have to stay off of his ADHD meds for a year and that wouldn't be good for him.  I think it's more along the lines of him just being an adult now more than anything and the possibility of not having him around much longer.  She is going through a lot and realize that our r/s is on her mind also.    


Thanks for the encouragement.  I've worked on me really hard.  Sometimes I wonder if I'm way healthier, or numb or both.   lol :)

Hi Maroon, how awesome that 95% of your time together is happy, fun and loving!  You're committed to staying and have told your wife you won't agree to a divorce.


In what ways?  What does working on your marriage look like to you?  What would she need to do to prove she's working on the marriage, when it's not believed she actually does want to divorce?

How does her participation or lack thereof attribute to your views and participation in living your values?

 

 

Our time together is so much better with less drama, thank God.  She still has her moments but we don't fight like we used to months ago as I won't participate in it any longer.


I realized the way I worded this wasn't the best.  Let me try and answer your questions.   lol

First,


I realize that how she feels is how she feels so I can't be responsible for that.  I just meant that she caused most of her problems when her big dysregulation happened and seeing the "fruit" of that big time now.  As far as what ways: She wouldn't feel so alone as she said she did last night.  Neither of us would be under the financial stress of having two households to pay for.  She would have a dad that loves them in their lives that they went through most of their grwoing up years with.  Second,


I think the first step is, not "hiding" our r/s to others: such as being blocked on facebook/not showing she is married, not telling her extended family I'm at her house/out with them when she is on the phone with them, etc.  It doesn't bother me anymore, but she is misrepresenting herself to all of her family, acquaintences, etc and its a lie.  Plain and simple.  I'm not sure how she continues with that one except they are helping her out with money (she said she asked her dad for some) and plays into her victimhood.    


See previous answer.  I can't make her go to counseling, but I'm truly hopeful that she does.  She is making progress (more so now that I am holding fast to my boundaries) and for that I'm grateful.  

 


It doesn't.  Regardless of how she handles lying to others (that's on her and hers to deal with) or how she acts toward me, I continue to be steady in the boat and do my own thing.  I don't let her affect me one way or another and hold bondaries whenever I need to.  Can I live without her?  Obviously yes.  :)o I choose to remain a steady rock in her life that she can count on without being used?  Yes, by holding my boundaries.  

i hope this helps.

wow ml so familiar, my wife plays the victim.

Yeah, pretty standard for a pwBPD.  If I remember correctly, you said your wife was high functioning.  Mine is too.  They play the very "strong" person to acquaintances but when things fall apart, play the victim so that those same people will help when they paint us black.  Because those people are kept at arms length, they will have had "no idea" we non's were "that way".  It also makes them feel better about what they have done.

yep  |iiii  

     The last few days (and weeks) have been nice.  My wife and I continue to get along well.  I am feeling her pull back some (not as much as usual bit still noticeable) and I think it's because she is supposed to be leaving to go out of town for about 10 days on Saturday.  She is going back to her hometown (about an 18 hour drive) to see her father who isn't doing well.  She was pretty emotional about it last week.  He NEEDS to go into the VA hospital (surgery) but won't out of fear knowing they will have to inspect his house.  My wife says they will condemn it as he is BIG TIME HOARDER and it is unliveable.  He is a veteran who needs surgery and has been told he needs a wheelchair.  She isn't talking to her mom who lives about 15 min from her dad and told me she has no desire to see her.  She only talks to two out of 5 siblings (her FOO is really fractured) and hasn't talked to the other 3 in 2 years minimum.  I know this is really stressful for her. 

     I will let her have some space the next few days and will do my best to be as supportive as I can be.  I am on alert for her to be overly emotional and ready to validate where I can. 

 

Hey... .I get my care through the VA... .and I'm very familiar with procedures and all that... .

Never heard of a house inspection being tied to a surgery... .

Does he have a service connected disability?

This may be "outside of our lane"... .or yours... .but very curious... .

Most likely he has said this... .as a "smokescreen" to avoid going in.  It's fairly common for vets to do this... .

"Oh... I'd be happy to do (fill in blank) with the VA... but the govt rules would make (fill in blank) happen... .so... .I can't.

The 2nd blank is usually BS...

FF

Painting people black who they otherwise exposed their weaknesses to is a defensive reaction to the threat of being exposed. ie discrediting the source of this potential exposure. I think it is fairly common with those who are otherwise high functioning and fear being seen as weak.

ML I think it is good that you allow her to vent, but don't allow her to attack you personally while doing it. Venting is a necessity for pwBPD, even more so than for the rest of us. Once they realize that you are a willing outlet to hear this in a non threatening way, then they will switch from attempting the aggressive and non effective way. Ultimately they go with whatever works, and which is least threatening to them.

Trying to stop it altogether is just magical thinking, attempting to deny the Disorder by trying to hold the lid down. it will blow somewhere.

I think you are right she seems to be developing a sense of respect (in as far as pwPBD can) for consistent strengths. pwBPD don't like wishy washy, even if they created it. It's almost like "do as a I say and i wont respect you". Do what is ultimately right and they will "respect" you for being stronger than them. This is often the perception that kicks off idealization in the first place. Being what they would like to be.

|iiii

I understand what your saying.  I was told the story several weeks ago so I probably forgot some details.  Or he is lying.  According to my wife, he expects her to do things that are impossible, almost like a no win (sounds familiar).  That I believe.  


So true... .


I don't let her attack me anymore.  I will listen and always stay calm, but won't let her attack me.  Now, I just cut off any communication that I see is going that way.  I've set a hard and fast boundary as you'll see when I update in just second... .


Yeah, I am beginning to realize that I think "magically" sometimes.  


Our communication has remained much healthier and she has only had one big dysreg in about 4 months.  It is geting better, MUCH BETTER.

Yesterday afternoon, I texted my wife and asked how she was doing.  I then asked her if there was an update on her niece who was in the emergency room for unexplained seizures and an update on her Dad.  She didn't respond to the question about her, but responded "in short" about her niece that they released her.  They ran a bunch of tests and couldn't find the cause so they are referring her to a specialist.  Then she responded about her dad that she told him she wasn't able to go due to lack of funds and he was pretty upset.  I validated both of those, especially about her dad.  I said, "That's hard.  I know it has to be hard on you too as you are trying to rebuild a relationship with him.  That's important.  I'm proud of you for putting your past with him behind you.  It's not easy, but it can be rewarding."  She responded, "Can you send me proof of what the IRS is taking out of your checks."     I didn't respond realizing she was trying to start something (had nothing to do with anything) as it was obvious she was upset about her father.  Again, anytime this happens, I immediately cut off communication.  Almost two hours later, she responded again, "Crickets... .Where can I meet you with the money for the team?"  I responded where and when.  We met and she gave me the stuff and never mentioned the IRS thing.  We talked for a minute and then we had to go sifferent places so we left.  We then talked on the phone last night for a bit about softball and the situation with my daughters (whole different story about my ex-wife who triggered me big time last night).    

Probably. He expects her to deal with his problems, and is making it impossible for her to do so.

She sounds like she's doing a bit better. (Telling him she can't afford to go sounds like better boundary work on her part. Because she really can't. If he needs the help, perhaps he can offset her costs?)

And you sound to be doing a good job of letting it be her dad's problem that she may get involved with... .or may not... .but isn't your problem either way!

Agreed... .if she never asks for help or advice with this... .I wouldn't bring it up.


If she ever does bring it up or ask for advice... .the best advice is for her to call the county where he lives and ask for a VSO (Veteran's Service Officer).  Most counties have one.  Sometimes they are employed by the state.

They do NOT work for the VA... .their interest lies solely with helping the veteran (to the extent the law allows).

The second choice for help is to reach out to the American Legion, VFW and similar organizations and ask for one of their VSOs.

If the VA is giving "pushback"... .you do NOT want to go up against them alone.

The VSO's deal with the myriad rules and regs all day long and if there is a way... .they'll figure it out. 

Last for now:  I suspect GK has it right... .he is setting up "impossible" situation to see her try... and fail... .to help...

FF

She is doing better.  I think she was expecting him to and he didn't which is causing her to pull back from me (because I have so much to do with his actions   and the lousy dad he's been in her life).  But I understand she thinks the way her dad and ex-husband act is normal for men, so pulling back from me is par for the course.


I am trying.  I have asked her what the latest was and can tell it triggered her so I am not asking anymore right now.

I texted my wife yesterday and asked how one of our daughters was doing after an allergic reaction.  She never responded and I left her alone.  She texted me earlier today and asked how my meeting about swift all went with my daughters and ex wife.  I told her and she said that was good to hear.  I asked her how her day was and she ignored the question.  I asked what she was doing tonight and she said she was reading a book.  I said, "That sounds relaxing, what book?"  She didn't respond.  She still hasn't and I won't chase her.   I know it's not the ST, but WTH?  It is frustrating.  She used to do this a long time ago.  Very surface and when I asked about anything beneath that she ignores it.  Thoughts?

You've got it... .don't chase her. If she is backing away, you just give her a chance to beat you off with a stick if you keep following!

Here's a leading question for you:

Have you ever had a good text/email exchange with her on anything but logistics? Especially if you initiated it?

'Cuz I'm not seeing much good that way here. Sometimes you get ignored. Sometimes you get a little bit of something. If it is 90% bad (or useless), stop trying!

When you are with her in person, it can be good and it can be bad, and you are doing a good job of protecting yourself from the bad these days.

Respond in a friendly way when she texts you.

Ask her logistical questions that you need an answer for by text. Or notify her of things that don't require an answer.

Save the warm personal interactions for when you are in person.

Texting is just a communication tools. If it is proving to be a flawed way of communicating stop texting. Truth is it is only since that advent of texting that we have got used to having immediate answers for many things that we don't really need immediate answers for.

As per GK say, if chit chat via text is not a good experience don't do it. Often people get in the mindset that it feels like being interrogated,. I'm not a huge fan of rapid texting about non important trivia