Out of Nowhere...

[MaroonLiquid]

My wife texted me today and showed up to our team tryout for new players and acted like the conversation last night never took place.  We ended up going to dinner together and had a nice time.  We talked about the team and tryouts.  Then we got into some personal things about her again.  She told me that the IRS took another 2000 dollars from her and I validated how tough that had to be on her.  I realize this is one reason she has been so triggered lately at times.  When I saw that she was getting really emotional, I offered to go and get refills of our drinks.  After getting the refills, we continued to talk about other stuff and she started crying about her dad and mom and I validated how hard that must be for her.  I held her hand while she cried and just listened.  She said she felt so alone and I validated that as best as I could.  I told her I was here for her.  She said, "Please, just don't.  I know you're trying to help, but please don't."  I just said, "OK."  I changed the subject and we talked about the kids and their extra curricular a this year.  Shortly after that I walked her to her car holding her hand, gave her a hug and kiss and we went our separate ways for the evening.  It must be hard for her to be so all over the place emotionally.  I wonder what she thinks about me at times.  She must be very confused.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[GaGrl]

She consistently pushes on the divorce when finances are stressing her. This time it was financial aid and the IRS. I'm not sure what she thinks the judge is going to do - order you to repay her IRS and 401k Debby? It sounds as if that's what she wants but isn't being up front about.

[MaroonLiquid]

She consistently pushes on the divorce when finances are stressing her.

I realize this.  But I'll tell you, now that I have my "healthy communication" boundary, she is doing much better and her ST is almost non-existent anymore.  I have to believe that she is attracted to the strength in me of having those boundaries, standing for what I believe in, and not backing down.  We now spend a lot more time together than we used to and our time together (95%) is happy, fun and loving toward one another.  The other 5% or less is her getting emotional and I validate and just listen or her bringing up divorce and I just stand firm in my boundary.  The other night when we were at dinner we were discussing plans for a future.  Strange how their mind works.  

This time it was financial aid and the IRS. I'm not sure what she thinks the judge is going to do - order you to repay her IRS and 401k Debby? It sounds as if that's what she wants but isn't being up front about.

She has threatened me with the judge ordering me to pay it recently but I told her that I'm only responsible for 50% of the IRS debt and she knew that and they couldn't hold me to more than that.  I also told her I didn't want to hear about it again.  She didn't bring it up again.  Finances are a huge stressor to her and I understand that.  She is going through this because of her choices of splitting up.  I'm sure she has to see the truth there on some level.  

[formflier]

 

ML,

Momentum is going in the right direction for you... .and I believe your r/s.

You see to have a pattern established... .you are doing well validating... .and listening (to appropriate things)

With school starting and schedules changing... .there could be an upset... .think about this... .and be ready. 

She is not bringing up the past... .and you aren't either... .this is good.

I like how when appropriate... .you clearly state that you don't want divorce... .and then you move along.  She may not like it (at the time)... .but I think this is showing her strength.

Hang in there and keep up the good work

FF

[GaGrl]

I admire how you are handling it all!

[MaroonLiquid]

ML,

Momentum is going in the right direction for you... .and I believe your r/s.

I believe so too!

You see to have a pattern established... .you are doing well validating... .and listening (to appropriate things)

I'm trying.  i see that she is opening up to me a lot more than previously so that is a start.

With school starting and schedules changing... .there could be an upset... .think about this... .and be ready.

That's a good heads up.  I didn't even think about that!  

She is not bringing up the past... .and you aren't either... .this is good.

She did try the other night and even embellished on her version of the truth when she brought up divorce with me "cornered".  I said the truth about what she brought up one time and then said, "I'm not going to argue with you about that or say it again.  I refuse." and either she tried a different way to get me to JADE which I didn't, stayed quiet or said, "I'm sorry you feel that way.  Each time, she went on to something else to try and "poke" me with.  You're right though, I won't bring it up... .It does no good, even if she was healthy.

I like how when appropriate... .you clearly state that you don't want divorce... .and then you move along.  She may not like it (at the time)... .but I think this is showing her strength.

Hang in there and keep up the good work

FF

I'm trying.  It's obvious she is looking for somewhere to vent her frustration over finances, hurt about her FOO, the kids and I don't mind being there for her in a healthy manner.  I just won't be raged or dysregulated at.  it's strange that most of her issues would be solved if we were living together and working on our marriage.  Last night, she mentioned that she is not sure what to do about the kids dad and their activities, especially with the oldest being a senior in high school this year.  She said the kids don't want anything to do with him anymore.  I told her i felt that the right thing to do whether he comes or not is to invite him.  I told her I would love to come and just let me know when they are.  She said she would ask the kids if they "want me there" as she doesn't want it to be "awkward" for them.  I said, "I understand and don't want them to feel awkward."  The truth is probably more that she would feel awkward.  The truth doesn't line up with what she has told people.  She also mentioned our son possibly going into the military and I validated how hard that must be to let him go if that is what he chooses as that is her "baby".  He really can't as he would have to stay off of his ADHD meds for a year and that wouldn't be good for him.  I think it's more along the lines of him just being an adult now more than anything and the possibility of not having him around much longer.  She is going through a lot and realize that our r/s is on her mind also.    

I admire how you are handling it all!

Thanks for the encouragement.  I've worked on me really hard.  Sometimes I wonder if I'm way healthier, or numb or both.  

[123Phoebe]

Hi Maroon, how awesome that 95% of your time together is happy, fun and loving!  You're committed to staying and have told your wife you won't agree to a divorce.

it's strange that most of her issues would be solved if we were living together and working on our marriage.

In what ways?  What does working on your marriage look like to you?  What would she need to do to prove she's working on the marriage, when it's not believed she actually does want to divorce?

How does her participation or lack thereof attribute to your views and participation in living your values?

 

 

[MaroonLiquid]

Hi Maroon, how awesome that 95% of your time together is happy, fun and loving!  You're committed to staying and have told your wife you won't agree to a divorce.

Our time together is so much better with less drama, thank God.  She still has her moments but we don't fight like we used to months ago as I won't participate in it any longer.

it's strange that most of her issues would be solved if we were living together and working on our marriage.

In what ways?  What does working on your marriage look like to you?  What would she need to do to prove she's working on the marriage, when it's not believed she actually does want to divorce?

I realized the way I worded this wasn't the best.  Let me try and answer your questions.  

First,

In what ways?  

I realize that how she feels is how she feels so I can't be responsible for that.  I just meant that she caused most of her problems when her big dysregulation happened and seeing the "fruit" of that big time now.  As far as what ways: She wouldn't feel so alone as she said she did last night.  Neither of us would be under the financial stress of having two households to pay for.  She would have a dad that loves them in their lives that they went through most of their grwoing up years with.  Second,

What does working on your marriage look like to you?  

I think the first step is, not "hiding" our r/s to others: such as being blocked on facebook/not showing she is married, not telling her extended family I'm at her house/out with them when she is on the phone with them, etc.  It doesn't bother me anymore, but she is misrepresenting herself to all of her family, acquaintences, etc and its a lie.  Plain and simple.  I'm not sure how she continues with that one except they are helping her out with money (she said she asked her dad for some) and plays into her victimhood.    

What would she need to do to prove she's working on the marriage, when it's not believed she actually does want to divorce?

See previous answer.  I can't make her go to counseling, but I'm truly hopeful that she does.  She is making progress (more so now that I am holding fast to my boundaries) and for that I'm grateful.  

 

How does her participation or lack thereof attribute to your views and participation in living your values?

It doesn't.  Regardless of how she handles lying to others (that's on her and hers to deal with) or how she acts toward me, I continue to be steady in the boat and do my own thing.  I don't let her affect me one way or another and hold bondaries whenever I need to.  Can I live without her?  Obviously yes.  :)o I choose to remain a steady rock in her life that she can count on without being used?  Yes, by holding my boundaries.  

i hope this helps.

[married21years]

wow ml so familiar, my wife plays the victim.

[MaroonLiquid]

wow ml so familiar, my wife plays the victim.

Yeah, pretty standard for a pwBPD.  If I remember correctly, you said your wife was high functioning.  Mine is too.  They play the very "strong" person to acquaintances but when things fall apart, play the victim so that those same people will help when they paint us black.  Because those people are kept at arms length, they will have had "no idea" we non's were "that way".  It also makes them feel better about what they have done.

[married21years]

wow ml so familiar, my wife plays the victim.

Yeah, pretty standard for a pwBPD.  If I remember correctly, you said your wife was high functioning.  Mine is too.  They play the very "strong" person to acquaintances but when things fall apart, play the victim so that those same people will help when they paint us black.  Because those people are kept at arms length, they will have had "no idea" we non's were "that way".  It also makes them feel better about what they have done.

yep   

[MaroonLiquid]

     The last few days (and weeks) have been nice.  My wife and I continue to get along well.  I am feeling her pull back some (not as much as usual bit still noticeable) and I think it's because she is supposed to be leaving to go out of town for about 10 days on Saturday.  She is going back to her hometown (about an 18 hour drive) to see her father who isn't doing well.  She was pretty emotional about it last week.  He NEEDS to go into the VA hospital (surgery) but won't out of fear knowing they will have to inspect his house.  My wife says they will condemn it as he is BIG TIME HOARDER and it is unliveable.  He is a veteran who needs surgery and has been told he needs a wheelchair.  She isn't talking to her mom who lives about 15 min from her dad and told me she has no desire to see her.  She only talks to two out of 5 siblings (her FOO is really fractured) and hasn't talked to the other 3 in 2 years minimum.  I know this is really stressful for her. 

     I will let her have some space the next few days and will do my best to be as supportive as I can be.  I am on alert for her to be overly emotional and ready to validate where I can. 

[formflier]

 

Hey... .I get my care through the VA... .and I'm very familiar with procedures and all that... .

Never heard of a house inspection being tied to a surgery... .

Does he have a service connected disability?

This may be "outside of our lane"... .or yours... .but very curious... .

Most likely he has said this... .as a "smokescreen" to avoid going in.  It's fairly common for vets to do this... .

"Oh... I'd be happy to do (fill in blank) with the VA... but the govt rules would make (fill in blank) happen... .so... .I can't.

The 2nd blank is usually BS...

FF

[waverider]

Painting people black who they otherwise exposed their weaknesses to is a defensive reaction to the threat of being exposed. ie discrediting the source of this potential exposure. I think it is fairly common with those who are otherwise high functioning and fear being seen as weak.

ML I think it is good that you allow her to vent, but don't allow her to attack you personally while doing it. Venting is a necessity for pwBPD, even more so than for the rest of us. Once they realize that you are a willing outlet to hear this in a non threatening way, then they will switch from attempting the aggressive and non effective way. Ultimately they go with whatever works, and which is least threatening to them.

Trying to stop it altogether is just magical thinking, attempting to deny the Disorder by trying to hold the lid down. it will blow somewhere.

I think you are right she seems to be developing a sense of respect (in as far as pwPBD can) for consistent strengths. pwBPD don't like wishy washy, even if they created it. It's almost like "do as a I say and i wont respect you". Do what is ultimately right and they will "respect" you for being stronger than them. This is often the perception that kicks off idealization in the first place. Being what they would like to be.

[MaroonLiquid]

Hey... .I get my care through the VA... .and I'm very familiar with procedures and all that... .

Never heard of a house inspection being tied to a surgery... .

Does he have a service connected disability?

This may be "outside of our lane"... .or yours... .but very curious... .

Most likely he has said this... .as a "smokescreen" to avoid going in.  It's fairly common for vets to do this... .

"Oh... I'd be happy to do (fill in blank) with the VA... but the govt rules would make (fill in blank) happen... .so... .I can't.

The 2nd blank is usually BS...

FF

I understand what your saying.  I was told the story several weeks ago so I probably forgot some details.  Or he is lying.  According to my wife, he expects her to do things that are impossible, almost like a no win (sounds familiar).  That I believe.  

Painting people black who they otherwise exposed their weaknesses to is a defensive reaction to the threat of being exposed. ie discrediting the source of this potential exposure. I think it is fairly common with those who are otherwise high functioning and fear being seen as weak.

So true... .

ML I think it is good that you allow her to vent, but don't allow her to attack you personally while doing it. Venting is a necessity for pwBPD, even more so than for the rest of us. Once they realize that you are a willing outlet to hear this in a non threatening way, then they will switch from attempting the aggressive and non effective way. Ultimately they go with whatever works, and which is least threatening to them.

I don't let her attack me anymore.  I will listen and always stay calm, but won't let her attack me.  Now, I just cut off any communication that I see is going that way.  I've set a hard and fast boundary as you'll see when I update in just second... .

Trying to stop it altogether is just magical thinking, attempting to deny the Disorder by trying to hold the lid down. it will blow somewhere.

Yeah, I am beginning to realize that I think "magically" sometimes.  

I think you are right she seems to be developing a sense of respect (in as far as pwPBD can) for consistent strengths. pwBPD don't like wishy washy, even if they created it. It's almost like "do as a I say and i wont respect you". Do what is ultimately right and they will "respect" you for being stronger than them. This is often the perception that kicks off idealization in the first place. Being what they would like to be.

Our communication has remained much healthier and she has only had one big dysreg in about 4 months.  It is geting better, MUCH BETTER.

Yesterday afternoon, I texted my wife and asked how she was doing.  I then asked her if there was an update on her niece who was in the emergency room for unexplained seizures and an update on her Dad.  She didn't respond to the question about her, but responded "in short" about her niece that they released her.  They ran a bunch of tests and couldn't find the cause so they are referring her to a specialist.  Then she responded about her dad that she told him she wasn't able to go due to lack of funds and he was pretty upset.  I validated both of those, especially about her dad.  I said, "That's hard.  I know it has to be hard on you too as you are trying to rebuild a relationship with him.  That's important.  I'm proud of you for putting your past with him behind you.  It's not easy, but it can be rewarding."  She responded, "Can you send me proof of what the IRS is taking out of your checks."     I didn't respond realizing she was trying to start something (had nothing to do with anything) as it was obvious she was upset about her father.  Again, anytime this happens, I immediately cut off communication.  Almost two hours later, she responded again, "Crickets... .Where can I meet you with the money for the team?"  I responded where and when.  We met and she gave me the stuff and never mentioned the IRS thing.  We talked for a minute and then we had to go sifferent places so we left.  We then talked on the phone last night for a bit about softball and the situation with my daughters (whole different story about my ex-wife who triggered me big time last night).    

[Grey Kitty]

Hey... .I get my care through the VA... .and I'm very familiar with procedures and all that... .

Never heard of a house inspection being tied to a surgery... .

Does he have a service connected disability?

This may be "outside of our lane"... .or yours... .but very curious... .

Most likely he has said this... .as a "smokescreen" to avoid going in.  It's fairly common for vets to do this... .

"Oh... I'd be happy to do (fill in blank) with the VA... but the govt rules would make (fill in blank) happen... .so... .I can't.

The 2nd blank is usually BS...

FF

I understand what your saying.  I was told the story several weeks ago so I probably forgot some details.  Or he is lying.  According to my wife, he expects her to do things that are impossible, almost like a no win (sounds familiar).  That I believe.  

Probably. He expects her to deal with his problems, and is making it impossible for her to do so.

She sounds like she's doing a bit better. (Telling him she can't afford to go sounds like better boundary work on her part. Because she really can't. If he needs the help, perhaps he can offset her costs?)

And you sound to be doing a good job of letting it be her dad's problem that she may get involved with... .or may not... .but isn't your problem either way!

[formflier]

And you sound to be doing a good job of letting it be her dad's problem that she may get involved with... .or may not... .but isn't your problem either way!

Agreed... .if she never asks for help or advice with this... .I wouldn't bring it up.


If she ever does bring it up or ask for advice... .the best advice is for her to call the county where he lives and ask for a VSO (Veteran's Service Officer).  Most counties have one.  Sometimes they are employed by the state.

They do NOT work for the VA... .their interest lies solely with helping the veteran (to the extent the law allows).

The second choice for help is to reach out to the American Legion, VFW and similar organizations and ask for one of their VSOs.

If the VA is giving "pushback"... .you do NOT want to go up against them alone.

The VSO's deal with the myriad rules and regs all day long and if there is a way... .they'll figure it out. 

Last for now:  I suspect GK has it right... .he is setting up "impossible" situation to see her try... and fail... .to help...

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

She sounds like she's doing a bit better. (Telling him she can't afford to go sounds like better boundary work on her part. Because she really can't. If he needs the help, perhaps he can offset her costs?)

She is doing better.  I think she was expecting him to and he didn't which is causing her to pull back from me (because I have so much to do with his actions   and the lousy dad he's been in her life).  But I understand she thinks the way her dad and ex-husband act is normal for men, so pulling back from me is par for the course.

And you sound to be doing a good job of letting it be her dad's problem that she may get involved with... .or may not... .but isn't your problem either way!

I am trying.  I have asked her what the latest was and can tell it triggered her so I am not asking anymore right now.

[MaroonLiquid]

I texted my wife yesterday and asked how one of our daughters was doing after an allergic reaction.  She never responded and I left her alone.  She texted me earlier today and asked how my meeting about swift all went with my daughters and ex wife.  I told her and she said that was good to hear.  I asked her how her day was and she ignored the question.  I asked what she was doing tonight and she said she was reading a book.  I said, "That sounds relaxing, what book?"  She didn't respond.  She still hasn't and I won't chase her.   I know it's not the ST, but WTH?  It is frustrating.  She used to do this a long time ago.  Very surface and when I asked about anything beneath that she ignores it.  Thoughts?

[Grey Kitty]

You've got it... .don't chase her. If she is backing away, you just give her a chance to beat you off with a stick if you keep following!

Here's a leading question for you:

Have you ever had a good text/email exchange with her on anything but logistics? Especially if you initiated it?

'Cuz I'm not seeing much good that way here. Sometimes you get ignored. Sometimes you get a little bit of something. If it is 90% bad (or useless), stop trying!

When you are with her in person, it can be good and it can be bad, and you are doing a good job of protecting yourself from the bad these days.

Respond in a friendly way when she texts you.

Ask her logistical questions that you need an answer for by text. Or notify her of things that don't require an answer.

Save the warm personal interactions for when you are in person.

[waverider]

Texting is just a communication tools. If it is proving to be a flawed way of communicating stop texting. Truth is it is only since that advent of texting that we have got used to having immediate answers for many things that we don't really need immediate answers for.

As per GK say, if chit chat via text is not a good experience don't do it. Often people get in the mindset that it feels like being interrogated,. I'm not a huge fan of rapid texting about non important trivia