BPDFamily.com

 HI!

I was in an abusive relationship with my exgf for 1.5 years. I strongly suggest that she has BPD. I'll never know because she would never admit that she caused any problems between us.

Well, that's not exactly true. When I walked away from the relationship she became very apologetic. That only lasted until she didn't get the response that she wanted and then she went right back to being hateful and rude.

Anyway, it's been a month since I went no contact. Each and every day it hurts and I fight the urge to contact her. I'm certain that I'm not the only one who has experienced that though... .I don't contact her out of fear. I say that, but I suppose that it's really self-preservation (trying to put a positive spin on things here) that keeps me from contacting her. I know that if I did I'd just get more of the same; that she didn't magically become a nice person over the past month.

I'm seeing a therapist, and working on developing new tools to help deal with why I fell under her spell to begin with so that I don't go back there again. I'm no longer in crisis-mode, but struggle every time one of her flying monkeys makes an appearance in my world. Externally, I just ignore them in hopes that they will all just get bored and go away, but internally I struggle each time. They trigger feelings of the extreme guilt that I feel for walking away. Something in my mind tries to tell me that she really must love me for going through all of this. My adult brain tells me that she's really just struggling to regain control by any means possible.

Any thoughts on how to control the guilt when cognitive thinking just doesn't work? Is it really just a matter of time?

Any thoughts on how to control the guilt when cognitive thinking just doesn't work? Is it really just a matter of time?

You know that your relationship was abusive and yet you are experiencing guilt for protecting yourself.  What do you suppose brings that feeling forward under these circumstances?

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When we enter their world, there is a desire to control us because the fear of abandonment is so great.  Can you see where she had internal feelings of chaos?  That it was hard for her to stay centered?

1.5 years is a significant amount of time in a relationship with someone, a month of self preservation, and you're out of crisis mode, how long ago did you break-up?

I'm speaking for myself when I say this, I had a lot of conflicted emotions, can you describe why you feel guilt? Do you wonder how she's going to take of herself?

... .I've just realized today and yesterday that if my BPDgf loved me, that was the most painful excuse for love I've ever experienced.

Leonis, I can completely see that no matter what I did, she would have found ways to tear it apart. In actuality, she never really complained about the things that I did. Most of her complaints stemmed from my not meeting her expectations; it was what I didn't do rather than what I did that upset her. She was generally happy with the things that I did to show her that I loved her. It just never seemed to be enough.

That's exactly how my ex handled things. It was something I didn't do. In fact, she seldom communicated what she wanted on the grounds of appearing "too bossy". Surprisingly, she even kept a scoreboard of me NOT doing the things that she had hoped. It was a lose-lose scenario for me.

Little sidestory to go with this.  I ran my own business when we first married, she hated it because I never knew how much $ i would earn from month to month.  After many unhappy hours listening to how I should get a full time permanent job, I got one and wanted to surprise her by leaving my offer letter on kitchen table when she got home.  Much to my surprise and upset, she read the letter and said this is pathetic, you should be making way more than this.  LOL!  It was a really good offer and the most $ I had ever made at that time.

The problem seems to be that everything reminds me of my x, or I want to share each new experience with her.

Another problem is that I feel so guilty for walking away from her. I know that she has her issues and that I cannot fix them for her. Knowing that doesn't seem to quash the emotions however. I know that things take time and that it will get easier. But, for today, for this moment, and the next moment when I want to break NC, I struggle. I know that I'm no different from everyone else here though, and I feel really whiny about all of it.

Something in my mind tries to tell me that she really must love me for going through all of this.

The hardest part for me was the "why would he treat me this way?"  

Mine would provoke me with crazy claims like I was cheating on her, looking at other women as well as hitting on other women in her presence? Really... silly claims all I which I would vehemently deny. So, yes after awhile their claims become so preposterous that we get frustrated and perhaps show more emotional because the arguments never go away and get compounded... until we burst and need to express our disappointments with them... and unless you would have know about her disorder and could have handled her with kid gloves, you had no chance brother. They claim its all your fault, your the guilty one. When in reality - they are just 'crazy-making' and seeing things that just are not true.

I completely get that Mars! I'm 45 also btw. My x was older than me though.

What are we actually too old for though? My best friend's favorite axiom is: "You're not dead yet!" So, I guess since we're still breathing we are still young enough to learn.

I feel I lost that sense of hope that i once so easily had when I was with her. And that was another frustration. I was looking into the future and she could bearly get out if the here and now. Its the like the gun went off and we were still at the starting line... .just couldn't get off the ground and get in the race.

I can completely relate to this also! (I find it both amazing and sad that so many of us experience the exact same things here.) I had so many hopes and dreams connected with my r/s that are all gone now. As hard as I try, at this moment, I cannot imagine a future; well, at least not the type of future that I used to imagine. She had become my hope and inspiration. It hurts to see it all for the delusion that it actually was.

Yeah, very true... And we are gaining much more wisdom now too...  I guess though, I still have hopes to start a family. I have been dating younger women but am at crossroads now to maybe giving up the family dream and find a quality older woman. As, the ones that I have been attracting are younger and seem to have different expectations perhaps... I'm just getting exhausted is all, and getting a bit discouraged. As we know, these type breakups are traumatic and looking into my future now feels daunting given the weight of the breakup. I feel I lost that sense of hope that i once so easily had when I was with her. And that was another frustration. I was looking into the future and she could bearly get out of the here and now. Its the like the gun went off and we were still at the starting line... .tying our shoes, stretching... thinking about the race but never willing to get moving to participate in it.

JRB, I'm a 48 year-old woman with older kids, and trust me, there are plenty of us who would love to date a man who wants a family. I would totally put it on a dating profile. Just say you love kids and would be more than happy to date a single mom. They'll probably come out of the woodwork!

Thanks Hurtin, that sounds like a pretty nice way to say that without giving off a wary vibe to others.

Since I have your attention, is it a plus or minus that I am alienated from my FOO? I could see this being a plus and/or minus for others.  Don't want to hijack this thread, but just curious to get your perspective.

Meili, I have a neighbor who is 61 with 7 year old triplets!  WOW!  There is having a hope for a family and then there is crazy! 

Thanks both, I have really needed something to pick my spirits up as I keep my life on track as a responsible guy trying to meet someone with family potential versus living like a reckless single.

Cheers

A letter that I wish that I could send, but know that I shouldn't and won't... .

I don't send it for the exact reasons that you stated that you didn't send yours. It would be twisted by her to become "proof" that I was completely to blame for all of the problems in the r/s.

I do plan on running it by my T when I see her this week though.

There is another reason that I don't want to send it, I am not sure of my motivation behind writing it. I can't say for certain that it isn't borne from wanting back what once was and some willingness to try again. Until I'm past that, if the letter were well received, would open the door for me to go right back to where I was. I'm still very weak where she is concerned.

I've been thinking a lot about my motivation to contact my x and I think that I've finally figured out what is spurring it on: I'm still seeking her acceptance.

In some relationships, the idealization phase is the partner being in lonely child stance and the Borderline being in abandoned child stance.Both need saving Both need attachment to stave off the pain of being alone. This is one type of bonding seen in this community.

In this bond, both people bring core trauma to the relationship. Mirroring reenacts the earliest childhood experiences to rise up and emerge into consciousness.

In idealization, there is a dual identification and projection for both people that they have found a perfect love- however, one partner (the “lonely child”) does not yet realize that the other partner (the abandoned child= Borderline) has no whole self- and is utilizing a fantasy of a part-time good in order to fuse with the partner's part time good and become one.

The lonely child has spent much of their life becoming “one.” When a lonely child finds an abandoned child, both parties feel needed. However, rather than truly loving the individuality of both parties- the sad, fantasy aspect of mirroring magnifies the unhealthy needs of both people.

When the lonely child begins to question the reality of mirroring (reality testing) this raises core traumas into activation concerning both the questioning (uncertainty) and the hope (unfulfilled expectations) of the unrealistic attachment. "Lack of inherent trust" is found in both parties at this stage.

Reality testing causes the lonely child to pull away because certain things don't add up- as you say, "the idealization phase slowly erodes."

Pulling away, even while in the lap of comfortable luxury- triggers the abandoned child issues of the Borderline. This causes panic reactions of clinging behaviors by the Borderline to prevent the retreat of their desired love object. These immature demands can look like entitlement to others, especially to a lonely child, who has learned early on to be self sufficient and to self soothe- but the entitlement markers are highly charged and emotional to a Borderline, which isn’t Narcissistic grandiosity- it’s ego deficiency and panic.

The entitlement phase brings a hidden "angry and aggressive child" out from hibernation and into full view and this usually occurs when the lonely child least expects it. The angry child that emerges is pissed and has delusions of persecution that are ideas of reference from earlier childhood trauma. It’s at this point that the angry child (Borderline) will become enraged and try to cast off shame. They may attempt to harm himself/herself in order to scapegoat the lonely child- who unwittingly stands-in for the earliest attachment. This triggers the lonely child's trauma from their earliest attachment as well.

The Borderline wants so badly to be whole that they demand that the lonely child create wholeness for them- which the partner succeeds in doing early on but then relaxes. The Borderline temper tantrum, with its ideas of reference being so very childlike and fantastic, perceives the relaxation of the partner as though the attachment is split up. In order to cope, the Borderline must now find another part time perceived good object to self medicate the emotions of feeling badly from the split. If this cannot be accomplished, the surge of limbic fear concerning anger and abandonment causes such great pain that self harm is often inflicted for relief.

The lonely child is often very surprised by this. The anger and dysregulation are in contrast to what he/she perceives are necessary for the circumstances. (The lonely child fails to see need disguised as "love." Therefore, the lonely child seeks to understand the Borderlines ideas of reference concerning "love" in order to cope with the neediness and begins a line of questioning. The Borderline retreats.

Lonely child is "understanding driven" and gets drawn into the Borderline acting out. The lonely child now has a mystery- the Borderline dilemma of "who am I?" This is very likely the same way that the lonely child came into existence as an “understanding driven” child. Especially when he questioned the motives of his earliest attachments during infancy and adolescence.

The lonely child understands the need to be held, loved and understood – because that’s what he longs for in others. The lonely child feels that in order to deal with acting out of the Borderline- the lonely child must project the aura of grace, compassion and understanding upon the Borderline and also guide, teach and show the way- because after all, that’s what the lonely child would want someone to do for him. There was a large reason that the initial mirroring (of this fixer /rescuer ego) worked so well in the idealization stage- the relationship really WAS the projection of lonely child that was mirrored, not the deficient ego of the Borderline.

In the "upside down" world of the Borderline, the lonely child is the perfect attachment to fuse to and the hypersensitive Borderline is the perfect mystery for the lonely child to try to understand. This is the reactivation of a childhood dynamic- that forms a needy bond.

The Borderline is a perfect template with which to project and identify with as a good object and also one to invest in to feel better about the “self.”

The understanding driven lonely child "imagines" (projects) onto the Borderline what he/she feels the Borderline identifies with. The lonely child often fills in the blanks with projective identification and the Borderline attempts to absorbs this- but it's impossible to appear as a self-directed person while taking cues and mirroring another self directed partner.

The Borderline scrambles to keep up with what is projected in a chameleon like manner. All of this pressure to adapt and conform to the projection smothers and defeats the Borderline’s yearning for a perfect bond and triggers engulfment failure.

Engulfment also means loss of control, annihilation fantasies and shame. Shame activates the punitive parent that resides in their inner world, their psyche. The attachment failure has now become shame based for the Borderline. It will soon become guilt driven for the lonely child partner.

Engulfment makes Borderlines very frustrated and angry- but Borderlines fear abandonment and choose to stuff away their fear and compulsively attempt to manage their pain. The impulsive gestures are a form of self harm that fixes the bond in a permanent chaos of action/reaction.

Borderlines can be avoidant and passive aggressive and will do everything in their power to hide their strong emotions until they implode. They swing wildly from abandoned child to angry child until they deflate into detached protector- who is basically a mute that doesn’t speak- or worse, speaks in word salad when confronted.

The swinging dysregulation pattern is unable to be separated and individuated and self directed. Because it cannot be self directed, it cannot be self soothed. There is no ability to defer these emotions to logic and reasoning with introspection without another person to blame. This is where Borderlines are showing you the maturity stage at which they are developmentally arrested and remain stuck and frightened.

Quote Devaluing is the BPD going into the punitive parent role to switch up the control ~ control was relinquished in the idealisation phase so we will attach. The further along we get in the rs ~ the BPD then feels like we are the persecutor for their failing part time self ~ devalue. Devaluing is more about projection ~ because there failing self makes them feel woeful, scared, fearful.

We all have punitive parents that exist in our heads. This is our Superego. The criticism felt by both parties exists as guilt and shame inside our heads. This tape plays over and over and is a re-working of former traumas. It is also a huge part of what makes complementary traumas so attractive as binding agents to each other. The lonely child has the “tyrannical shoulds” while the abandoned child has defectiveness schema- together they interact and drive each other crazy.

The understanding driven child cannot fathom how another human being does not have a “self.” The understanding driven child has had much childhood experience with strong selves and has created a self to understand the motives of others. Lonely children have a need to have some sort of control over their destiny because so much was out of control in their childhood.

The Borderline’s idea of destiny is being attached to others for protection. The Borderline cannot fathom what it means to have a stand alone “self.”

Both parties are human “doing” for others rather than being- but there is more impulsivity in Borderline in the “offering” of themselves as objects. (The lonely child is very particular concerning who he gives his heart to and makes decisions based upon careful consideration.)

The failure to find a healthy mature love activates the punitive parent in both people’s psyche- one for persecution and the other for failure to understand others (cloaked in rescuing behaviors)- this is the “flea” of each others psychiatric trauma that really is a very strong obsessive bond, and one of endless victimization for both parties unless one or the other becomes understanding driven toward self direction. Guess who has the best chance? Unfortunately, the mirrored good that the Borderline provided was a very strong drug- and the obsession is outwardly projected (as it always has been) by the lonely child in order to understand and consequently, control it.

It’s at this point that spying, engaging in testing and push/pull behaviors occur as both parties fight for control. Each pours salt in the others core wound.

The understanding driven child tries to understand the Borderline and the Borderline feels misunderstood and persecuted. The understanding driven child retreats to repair their ego and the Borderline lashes out and tries to shame him. The pendulum swings back and forth in clinging and hating and disordered thought and chaos.

The lonely child tries to uncover what they think the Borderline is hiding from them (triggering bouts of paranoia) or missing (creating dependency issues.) The angry child threatens to destroy the relationship (as well as themselves = self harm) which triggers immense anger and outrage for both parties. Their love object is broken.

Both parties are in pain- and their egos are easy to "pinch" because they both fear abandonment. At this point, both core traumas are exposed and the partners are no longer interacting with each other except to arouse each other’s trauma wounds from childhood.

The false self of the lonely child, that the Borderline mirrored, has more ego- as it is directly tied to a “self” which involves coping mechanisms from childhood that mirrored back good. It was a self that was capable and seeming to have all the answers in the beginning. When the Borderline tries to destroy it as a failed attachment, it begins to crumble and the lonely child retreats and tries to repair it- essentially wounded to the core. This is also part and parcel of the injury of the smear campaign- and the lonely child may try to return to defend the "self" from being attacked.

Trauma for the lonely child occurs mainly because of perceived failure they cannot “understand” enough (essentially an obsession at this point) and trauma for the Borderline occurs because of anger and abandonment and shame that existed since infancy- and persecution by their inner parent superego for not becoming whole.

At this point, both parties feel like failures.

Unfortunately, the repair for the lonely child’s self consists of trying again to fix the Borderline "mirror" to reflect the good. Many attempts will be made by the lonely child (once again) to effect an outcome other than the failed attachment. The lonely child will try to re-build the self and get the love object (Borderline) to return and resume their compliant mirroring.

Unfortunately, the repair for the lonely child’s self consists of trying again to fix the Borderline "mirror" to reflect the good.

Schema Mode-Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child  The  Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child is a maladaptive schema characterized by feelings of being lonely, isolated, sad, misunderstood, unsupported, defective, deprived, overwhelmed, incompetent, doubts self, needy, helpless, hopeless, frightened, anxious, worried, victimized, worthless, unloved, unlovable, lost, directionless, fragile, weak, defeated, oppressed, powerless, left out, excluded, pessimistic.  The Lonely Child is prone to act in a passive, subservient, submissive, approval-seeking way around others out of fear of conflict or rejection; tolerates abuse and/or bad treatment; selects people or engages in other behavior that directly maintains the self-defeating schema-driven pattern.

It has been pointed out how idealization is a vehicle that can connect people in these two schemas.  The Abandoned/Abused Child is desperately seeking a connection and in BPD that drives an overreaction (idealization).  The Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child is approval seeking and revels in it. The Lonely child is also prone to try to cling to the relationship long after it has turned bad as they are tolerant of and often feel deserving of bad treatment.