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So, I've been waiting for my ex to reply for a long message I've sent her, over whatsapp.

I find myself obsessively looking at the chat window, waiting for her status to be "online" , expecting for her reply or hack let's face it, I'm cyber stocking her. Anyway, I've changed her name in the contact list from her initials to "does not respect you" so every time I check the chat I see this instead of her name. Cyber stocking dropped by 50%.

Hey NC-

So a handy question to use here and elsewhere is 'how can I use this'?  I don't know your whole story but you've been around for a while, and it's handy, when we're considering cyberstalking, to stop and really feel the emotions around that.  What is that drive to obsessively check?  How does it feel when you don't?  What does that mean?

It's pretty common, when a borderline gets into the devaluation stage, to redouble our efforts to try and get back to the good, and that drive can last after the relationship ends, and even better, we can mistake that for 'love'.  Real love is a warm, mellow feeling, that obsessive drive we feel is more like an addiction, and is not love, so what is it?  A borderline will be whomever they need to be to attach, by discovering your deepest needs and meeting them for a time, and then when they get taken away, we go into obsession mode.  So whatever needs she discovered were there long before she showed up, which is the good news really, an opportunity to dig and see what that's all about.  Any thoughts?

Nice move. I hope that works out for you.

It's a compulsion that stems from invalidation.

 Sweet tooth... .An interesting perspective, one that I hadn't considered.

I made my exes picture in my phone  Pinnochio while I had it still in there... .lol Good idea!

During the early stages of our relationship I put a picture of my BPDgf as wallpaper on my laptop that had the heading "b**** from he**" And yes I still got envolved with her after that.

 :'(

This only makes me question my own judgement and I just do not understand what I was thinking. Talk about sticking my head in a lions mouth then complain about getting bit. Lol

   Wow! I need to remember this... .It really makes sense!

Fromheeltoheal... .Great reply, one I needed to hear. Thanks!

Don't beat yourself up too much. I remember a moment when I said to myself, "This chick is nuts!" and still went through with it anyway.

Thanks sweet tooth, yes she is nuts and that's putting it mikdly.

It is strange especially concidering I have not met or talked to anyone, including  her own family, who have not told me she was severely mentally ill or as some put it "nuts"

Still I cared? I'm thinking because I thought I was crazy growing up, blamed for family woes I got deeper into the false belief I was defective. I guess I was defending my exgf from the same fate.

I think she's tried to convince me in just the last few weeks her family all hate her, especially her mother. Her mother is extremely controlling and cruel to her. It's like grandma loves to watch her daughter fail? Truly sick to watch.

That is probably codependency on your part. You wanted to save her. I'm not saying that to be insulting. I was the same way. I wanted to be a good influence and help my ex, too.

Oh yes I am clearly codependent and I'm working to make this less of a problem.

Could be, and invalidation by whom?  Were we invalidated in our youth?  By a parent?  By a sibling?  Was it something other than invalidation?  Borderlines create facades to attach using mirroring and uncanny observation skills, and that was a fiction, but that fiction may have touched a part of us that is very old, it certainly did if we got in deep, and the gift a borderline can give us is to shine a spotlight on unresolved issues from our past, so we can address them.  What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?

This is awesome advice! My therapist always tells me this: Stop. Slow Down. And Ask. So when I ruminate, I stop, slow down, and ask myself, what is that about? When I check my ex's fb page, I stop, slow down, and ask, why are you doing that? What is the emotion behind it?

It is actually really liberating. I don't shame myself anymore, or make excuses. I give myself permission to be curious about myself.

For me, when I cyberstalk or have tried in the past to "poke" my ex in some way, what it is really about is I am hurt. Hurt, and angry. I feel like I don't matter, that he never cared. There are a whole lot of important emotions there for me. For me the past efforts at poking including wanting to hurt him back. I own that. There are times I wanted him to hurt like he hurt me. Other times it was a way to get him to reengage.

For others here, what are your emotions behind cyberstalking or poking your ex?

About "facades and mirroring skills" - she often talks about how she "knows" how to manipulate men and and say this or that in the right moment, to get what she wants. But she mentions this in the context of work and protecting herself from internal politics / sexual advances etc on part of her sexist bosses.

I believe that we're social creatures and that to want to "save" or be good to someone isn't a bad thing, it's part of our DNA.

For myself personally I became depressed and withdrawn when I was introduced to the other side of the hill.

Yes, office politics is something we all must learn to navigate, one way or the other.  And a borderline, someone without a fully formed self of their own, mirrors someone to attach yes, and once attached will take the good they see in someone, the traits that inspired them to attach in the first place, and make them their own, to complete them, to create one person out of two by psychically fusing, at least in their head, as unstable as that is.  A personality disorder goes way beyond attempting to manipulate coworkers and navigate office politics, and it's up to each of us to decide where our exes are on that continuum, and more importantly, how we're going to use that information as we detach and focus on our futures.


Yes, our tribal drives are part of our DNA, and challenges can arise when we end up putting other people's needs ahead of our own continuously, to the point that we may lose touch with our own needs entirely, abandon ourselves, and further, assume the identity of a 'saver' and look to get our needs met in a backhanded way through that identity.  That's called codependency, and many of us ended up there with a borderline, someone who is in constant need of saving, so it's a good pairing really, things fit together well in a dysfunctional way, until they don't, and we can learn a lot about ourselves as we discover why we did what we did in the relationship, and whether or not that really served us and our needs in a healthy way moving forward.

So lets look at this.  Do you feel that maybe the reason why this is bothering you so much is because she manipulated you? 

Yeah, me too CS, when I wasn't being obsessive; it's like the depression was a response to the obsession just not working, not being able to get back to the good.  And what did we make that mean?  What did that say about us that we weren't able to turn the relationship around?  What did that remind us of from other parts of our lives?  How can we reframe that in a way that empowers us moving forward?

I never even tried to get back to the good, and admittedly that has been a source of tremendous guilt for me.  When she blew apart the foundation that I had built the entire relationship on I just didn't have it in me to rebuild it once again.  It was time for her to stand up and take responsibility for her actions and the consequences of those actions.  I couldn't forgive and forget again.   

I believe all of us did the best we could in an imposible situation. PwBPD need a lot of help and I didn't have a clue how to help, I offered what I knew, AA, Alanon, Church, therapy, nothing will help them until they want the help.

I simply ran out of patients and energy and closed the door, I shudder to think where I would be today if I had not.

I've been there too, feeling guilty for enforcing boundaries, setting limits and holding other people accountable.  What's up with that?  There are times where it's important to me to dig for the source of that wiring and see what I can learn or resolve, and other times where I just go screw it, I'm wired that way for whatever reason, and it clearly isn't serving me, so how can I be more aware and vigilant about not putting up with that crap and removing folks from my life who look to exploit it; having both healthy boundaries and the ability to be intimate is a new balance for me, still playing with where the line needs to be, all part of the fun of being human, yes?

For me I feel guilty for giving up. I did not handle it in a healthy fashion, for myself or the relationship.  There were things I should have done but didn't ... .of course a hindsight realization.

That all being true, I didn't enforce the boundary I had set in the beginning of the relationship.  If I had I would have walked away.  My biggest problem is I have a hard time giving up on people which can lead to boundaries being repeatedly violated.

And this is my "trick" to get over my ex ... .knowing that she would continue to violate my boundaries regardless of what I did.

Yes, in an inherently unstable situation, a borderline is certainly consistent in that regard, and all the value is found in discovering and owning why we let it happen.

So NCEA, is that true for you too?

I'm kind of a control freak and used to get what I want. She was always illusive and I could never make her be mine, so I guess that's a huge part of it.

Tomorrow my new girl is coming back from her vacation volunteering at a refugee camp, so this is it. I've just archived the chat with my ex and decided to never write her again. I'll use my obsessive personality for that, and to try and make it work with my new girl, who is about ten times a better person from the ex.

NCEA after all

Just to make it clear - our chat ended nice, we're "best friends" and will do anything for each other, etc etc, but from my side - there will be no contact. When she writes me I'll be casual and will take a couple of days or more to reply. We will see each other in two months because we're going to be in the same island in Greece in the same time but until then I won't initiate anything. It just doesn't make any sense.

Sounds like a good course of action.  I might ask myself though if this woman is causing you emotional pain what reasons would there be to continue having contact with her at all?

I'm just saying that she will probably contact me... .so I don't want to be rude, or behave like I'm hurt or anything (which I am now, but probably not in a few weeks) and ignore her... .So in effect, I won't be in contact but it will probably happen from her side.

Being in the same island in Greece in the same time... .I think it would be silly not to say hi but if I don't feel like it, I won't.

She will be there because she has organized an art festival there, for the 2nd year. This is totally an ego thing ("my festival" this, "my festival" that), in contrast to my new girl, who also went to Greece, but in order to volunteer. One came back from Greece yesterday (was there setting things up) the other returning tomorrow.

The ironis around this are insane. What are the chances, ha?

This was very true in my experience with my x. She adopted the core things that made me who I am as her own. At the time it seemed loving. Later, when she blamed me for destroying her life because she made that choice, I was angry. Now, I just find the whole thing creepy.


For me, the cyberstalking that I've done is to get my "fix." It was intended to help curb the withdrawal symptoms that stem from the devaluation. Honestly though, it's had the opposite effect each time. I was left feeling worse and had stronger urges to contact her.

I think that I also wanted to know that she was missing me. I never got that impression at all!

To get my fix.  A few times she wrote me "I see that you were online" etc, she was doing the same to me.

For me, the cyberstalking was to reduce my own co-dependent fears of loss. It has been a way of checking to see yes, he is still there. My ex always gave me the silent treatment after breaking up with me, erasing me like I don't exist, and that was true for the final break up. So I have checked in part because of the pain of being shunned and vanished like that.

This will sound petty, but it is honest: it also helped me see that my ex is still making a huge mess of his life. It helps me see that it wasn't my fault, he is obviously on his own journey and if I was in relationship with him all the same stuff would be happening.

But like others I have found the reminders also bring up pain. I try to be compassionate to myself when I check up on him via social media. He doesn't know I do it. I'm finding I do it less over time, and it hurts less.

Despite his self-pitying posts, I also don't get the impression my ex misses me at all. It's all about him, all the time.

No doubt part of me will be "happy" to see how she keeps messing her life up. I begged her to take on CBT, she found a place but then never went with it. I do believe she can "decide" to be on her best behaviour if she wants to. Not cheat, be nice and kind to her partner etc. But then after some time, in the every day... .without therapy and a partner who knows who she is, it will fall apart.

By the way, do you think it's better to just block her on whatsapp and delete the number / chat?

We're not FB friends I unfriended her in the last round and we didn't become friends again this time around.

To block, or just delete the chat and ignore?

I think it just depends on what feels healthiest for you. I unfriended my ex but didn't block him anywhere. He could still call or email or message me, but I know he won't, and if he did I feel I could ignore it. The way my mind works, if I blocked I would then get obsessed with wondering if he had tried to contact me! lol

Some reasons members block: ex won't leave them alone, ex is manipulating or love or hate bombing, they are afraid of recycling and need the distance.

Some reasons members don't block: ex isn't a nuisance, they have some degree of contact (such as kids together) and are communicating, they are leaving the door open to a recycle, they are not comfortable with cutting people off.

It should be about what helps you, not punishing the ex.

Hope that helps!   

Thanks. I know it's childish to block.

What happened is that today, during our last convo, I asked her about her ex, the one she dumped me for. I asked her what happened between them. She said she was totally in love with him but he rejected her. She said he was verbally violent with her.

That really pissed me off. So she was in love with some jerk, who rejected her, which is probably why she was so in love with him AND he was violent... .and she doesn't want me, who was so nice to her for all these months.

Freaking crazy.

So now I'm pissed off and just want to block her out of my life as form of a childish revenge.

And to think that just two weeks ago we had sex for the first time since August.

Insane.

It depends what the goals are.  If, for example, the goal is to create an empowered future, the life of your dreams, one without her in it if she isn't part of the dream, and I'm talking dream, not fantasy, dreams can become reality with focus and work, fantasies stay fantasies, if she isn't a part of that future you're creating, then communicating with her, having sex with her, asking her about other men she's been with, getting pissed off, all of that is still emotional entanglement with her, and if you don't yet have the self control to not do that, then blocking every possible channel of communication may make total sense, if you're focusing on what's the best way to create that empowered future.  It's childish to block, or it's you taking control of your life, depending how you look at it.

Ok. What I just did is deleted her contact from my phone. Can't whatsapp stalk her unless I google her phone number (it's online unfortunately) and save it as a contact again, and then look her up on whatsapp... .So a lot of effort to make new contact.

Nice NC, sounds like proactive progress.  Now you get to deal with the stalking urges, which are the worst at the beginning and only get easier to deal with as time goes on, and you can help yourself by consciously focusing on that bright future.  What does that look like?

I don't know if you read my other posts. Tomorrow another girl I'm involved with is coming back from her vacation, we are practically a couple. As soon as she gets here it will be much easier. I miss this girl and she's about 100 times healthier than my ex, I'm half falling in love with her already. So it looks good.

Does this new girl know you had sex with your ex 2 weeks ago?  If that's where you are right now, bouncing from one relationship to the next, no worries, no judgment, just curious if this new girl fits into any long-term plans.