BPDFamily.com

On to what brought me to this board.

In 2013 I joined this website shortly before my partner attempted suicide for the second time. You can see the year he attempted in my user name itself.

Why unicorn? I suppose because I always liked the last unicorn. While I am not a virgin, I am divorced, what my ex, whom I'm not on this board for, or exes did to me is not my fault. We will not get into that just yet.

Today I am here to help me cope with the ending of my relationship with a borderline married man.

I've been trying for 4 years to make this relationship work.

It is almost the 4th year anniversary of the date that my partner told me he told his wife she earned a divorce. He still has not filed for business bankruptcy which is why she is not filling for divorce. Recently I found out that though he told me he told her to leave that day, July 3, he did not. She only left after she got sick of us face timing in her house, which has been foreclosed. I had no idea he lied to me on that day. I did not accept the full extent to which he lied to me until last Friday when she told me he lied to her about me. He told her that I lied to her about saying he lived in another country which is a lie he maintained until I asked her if they lived in another country. He had always told me she let him move to another country. As it turns out they only went there for a 2 week vacation.

I read that you just realized the extent of the lying 3 days ago when you found out that he never formally lived in a foreign country, he just vacationed there for two weeks.  This is a hard question, but do you feel you are being honest with yourself on this. 10 months ago you knew that he lied about being married, he lied about filing for divorce, and he lied about the lawyer making an error. You have close to 2,000 posts on the boards about these lies and other egregious lies in the last 10 months.

This morning you said"the balls in his court" implying that if he goes to therapy, you'll continue the relationship.

The pattern has been that he lies (huge lies), you become outraged, you give him  an ultimatum (you must get divorced, well, you must file, well you need to fix the taxes, well you need to go to therapy, well you... .), you treat him dysfunctionally, and then you accept the lie. The cycle repeats again with the next lie.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

When is the ball "in your court"?  When is being in this dysfunctional relationship your decision, your bad?

lbjnltx

I am not in the relationship anymore. I'm out. That is why I am on this board.

What I see here is blatant denial.  Telling yourself that you're no longer in the relationship is not the same as no longer being in the relationship.  As an alcoholic, I understand the power of denial.  :)enial is a mechanism used to help us feel like we have control when the reality is, we don't.  

You want to feel like you're in control of this "relationship" you have with this man. So you tell yourself things like "The relationship is over"(which is untrue) and "I'm not in the relationship anymore" (which is also untrue.)

Detachment is a process.  None of us are suddenly detached from our SO's.  It's not just "over."  It takes time for the relationship to be over, it takes time for us to accept that it's over. How can you be giving your SO ultimatums one day and then say it's over the next?  You see what I'm saying?

I really wish you would ditch the denial and accept that you are emotionally attached to this man and the relationship, you love him, you want the relationship to work, you want him to be a part of your life.  You need to accept these things.  Then you can work on detaching.

It is just as heartbreaking to be the person who ends the r/s as to be dumped. Hang in there.

What does "out of the relationship" mean to you? Can you be specific about what contact you have/want/will permit?

The relationship is over. I do not deny. Please do not speak to me this way. Its not helpful.

Yes I ended all of my relationships . I am trying not to answer his calls. He's called me twice since I've talked to his father and he reminded me not to take his calls until he seeks therapy. I have a headache. :) I hope this board can help me!

So I do not call him or email him until he seeks therapy. I do not take his calls or his emails until I hear from a therapist he has begun therapy.

I guess we are talking about NC until that happens. Since we do not know what will happen then it is at this point NC. Starting from now. This is hard.

Hi Unicorn,

Have you checked out this resource ("No Contact" the Right Way and the Wrong Way)?

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm




Detaching is so hard. The hardest part for a lot of us is letting go of hope. I am still hearing hope in what you've written.

Can you say more about what your objectives are in ending contact with your ex?

I do not want to have any more contact with him unless he starts treatment and I hear from his therapist that he has begun treatment. So I am not to call or email him, I am not to call or accept his emails. This is very hard as he called me 25 minutes ago. So I am starting as of now. I will read the link. I did not do this when I divorced as I have a child with my husband so I have no experience with this. I definitely need help. I am also struggling with contact with my mother on the coping board so I'm having a double whammy.

You don't want help, you want validation.  Just like my exBPD wife, you don't give a crap about fixing anything or accepting reality.  You just want someone to soothe your emotions like a little baby crying in its crib.  You're triggering the crap out me so I'm just going to stay away from your threads.

Thank you. I am sorry you had such a hard time in your marriage. I am actually working very hard on accepting reality, both with the skills i learned in DBT and the principles I am practicing in all my affairs. I do not need anyone to soothe my emotions, I learned how to self soothe in DBT and I am taking medication to soothe my emotions since I have PTSD from my family of origin and my marriage.

So this is the only thing you've said that sounds like an objective. It's the objective of someone in an ongoing relationship. Here's a pull-quote from that article:

QUOTE:

"No Contact" is mostly about the non-borderline forcing "distance" into the relationship to help the non-borderline heal; to get the "space" needed to get over the hurt; get on with their lives.

The key elements of "No Contact" are


~   to get the partner out of your day-to- day life,

~   to stop thinking in terms of a relationship,

~   to take them out of your vision of the future,

~   to stop wondering about how they are perceiving everything you are doing, and

~   to stop obsessing with how they are reacting (or not reacting) or what they are doing.

That is all correct. This relationship is over. I believe recovery from borderline is possible. So should that happen my ex will no longer be actively borderline. I do not foresee that happening however since I am a Christian I am not to give up hope. I am not staying in the relationship. I am leaving. This is about detaching from the wounds of a failed BPD relationship. There are people on this board who are recovered from BPD who post. Should my ex make it over to the other side then I will pick it up on the other side. I've made this clear to him, my daughter, his father and his wife as well as my parents and my brother and the people in my parish. I'm going no contact and letting go completely. I am not thinking in terms of a relationship with a borderline man. I know the difference between Buddhism and Christianity. I've been Buddhist, I'm now Christian. I got in trouble with my ex because I gave up my values for the sake of my relationship. I do not want to give up my values for the sake of this board. I know there are other Christians on this board so that's allowed.

I learned about gentle avoidance in DBT and I have been trying to practice this skill every single day with my ex. It is very hard. I am trying to do the opposite action of gentle avoidance in my relationship with my ex every single day. That is what no contact is. Gentle avoidance. Opposite action. I do not want to feel angry anymore. I have not wanted to feel angry anymore. I am working on this with my ex and my mother at the same time. I need to start referring to my ex as ex 2 as ex 1 is my husband. So I will say ex boyfriend to refer to my borderline ex as to clarify from my ex husband. As I am only 3 days out from my ex boyfriend I really need to take it slow here. Having two exes is hard. My grandmother had three. My mother only had one. I hope I only have two.

I am not trying to push him to recovery. I am trying to follow my Christian beliefs. My Christian beliefs tell me not to give up hope. Should his therapist contact me with a diagnosis and a treatment plan then we will resume. In the meantime I am detaching. I know this is a paradox.

Okay. This sounds like a start, Unicorn. Let's talk about it.

You're right: it seems that some pwBPD--with hard work over many years--are able to manage their disorders and get more stability in their lives and relationships. But I would caution you against any possible idea you might have that you not talking to him is going to push him to recovery. Step One is to take yourself out of the equation entirely. It's on him.

"I will not be thinking of him" -- not so easy. Please don't set yourself up to fail. As is often said, it's like trying not to think of an elephant. Anyhow, you will have to think of him if you're going to process your experience.

"No contact" will help you get some distance so you can examine your r/s with some perspective. That is a worthy goal.

So (sorry for multiposting) how about this: can you try picturing your future without him in it?

Step one is admitting I am powerless and that my life is unmanageable. I am not thinking about him anymore. I can not think about him with borderline. Should his therapist contact me with a diagnosis and a treatment plan then I will think about him. I am very serious about this. I have been trained in the spiritual life. I know how to do this. This is about mental discipline. This is about putting those thoughts out of my mind. I have been through a Christian divorce with a child before. That is small potatoes compared to this.

Okay, let's try this:

How can we help you? Do you have questions or want specific advice?

It was suggested that I lean on this board for support. I don't think I have any questions or want any specific advice at this point. I blocked him in my iMessage, sent his email to junk. If you want to give me any advice I am open to it.

You have my support! It's so hard, giving up that dream. You know you'll feel better when it's gone, but it meant so much. Advice... .I guess I already offered some. Mainly just... .rather than thinking of yourself as already detached ("relationship is over" "I won't be thinking about him" etc), which only (as I said) sets you up to fail, prepare yourself for the fact that this will be 100x harder than you think. There will be ups and downs. You'll look back to today and think, "Wow, I talked a good game but really was still trying to have control over what he does." A little humility now will serve you in good stead.

From what I know of your history, he is certain to keep trying to contact you, so you will need to be as strong as you can on this. The good news is that you can use technology to help you.

You can block him on social media.

You can block his phone number.

You can block or send his emails automatically to spam.

You can block him on any other communication channels/apps. (Facetime and any others you use)

Perhaps you don't feel comfortable blocking him. Afterall, he might tell you he's in therapy. Given his history of telling you anything you want to hear even when it isn't truthful, I'd be skeptical if I did hear that. Still you may not be comfortable with this. If you aren't, there are partial measures:

You can mute his conversations in chat apps.

You can make an email filter to make his emails bypass your inbox and go into a ":)on't read emails from my boyfriend" sub-sub-sub folder hidden away somewhere you won't open by accident at the wrong time.

You can set a special ringtone for his phone or text messages.

I am not NC with my stbexw, but I have limited contact with her. I made a ringtone for her from this Rod Stewart song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJylcQ7CGfI "(piano intro... .) "If I listen long enough to you, I'll find a way to believe that its all true... ." When I hear it, it reminds me of what I'm going to get if I answer the phone!

In fact, given your history with him, that might be an excellent choice! (PM me and I can send you a dropbox link to it!)

Whatever you do... .plan on him trying to blow past this NC boundary of yours--he's tried to blow past every other boundary you set before. Doesn't mean he will succeed, but I'm sure he'll try.

Hang in there!

---

Edit: Looks like you already have most of this sorted out; I cross-posted with a few people, you included.

Personally I think you should focus on your christian beliefs and give up a married man... .start there. If he divorces his wife and if he gets DBT, then you can deal with if you want to try and have a relationship with a person that hasn't shown they are trustworthy. If I were in your shoes, I would work on myself... .Why would you do this to yourself for 4 years? He is married. I just don't understand this being someone who has been cheated on. Sorry... .It hurts everyone except the person doing the cheating. So, maybe she knows about it and she is trying to make her marriage work because she is trying to cope with the BPD part of her husband. Leave it be... .there is nothing you can do but work on you.

Thank you I will be humble then however I also know how to cut the thoughts off. That's spiritual warfare. I was trained in that in 1999. I spent five weeks in a monastery before I got married. I considered a monastic vocation. I still stay in touch with the monastics. My godfather is a monastic priest. I still read monastic literature. I wanted to be a nun after I divorced but I had a child so I could not do that. My grandmother wanted to be a nun but she had a disability so she could not do that.

My suggestion if you go no contact would be to include your daughter. Take her computer and phone and delete his ability to contact her, or her to contact him. She is the child and you are the leader of your family, and so protecting and acting in her best interests is critical.

When my ex broke up with for the last time I talked to my kids about ending contact. As it turned out two of them had unfriended him on FB a long time ago because they didn't like him, but a third was still holding out hope. I knew it was in her best interest to be very clear I was detaching, and as the leader of our family I needed to do the right thing for her too. It ended up being be a good moment for her, and I could actually feel her relief as she removed his contact info. Later she confided how conflicted she had been about my ex, too. In the months since the kids have flourished, have been so happy and doing so well. I think kids need leadership in these issues, and good role models for being strong.

I would be careful about the contact with his father unless you know your ex won't be using his dad to triangulate you back into the picture. Or using dad as a message sender or receiver. That can be tempting when you have relatives in common.

More than anything I encourage you to work on not making this about what your ex is doing now, but on how you are detaching. Putting our hopes on their actions is a way of staying attached. If you are hoping that sooner or later the phone will ring and someone will say ex is in therapy, then you will continuing to tie your hope with his behavior, and as we all know, that can be very non-productive. Detachment is about moving on. It is about no longer maintaining hope of a relationship between the two of you. It is about letting go, recovering, and finding a different future.

I blocked him on everything except for Facebook where my daughter added him as stepfather.

I am waiting for his therapist to contact me not him.

I do have all this sorted out. I've been working on this since 2014 when I first landed on this website. I am on a mood stabilizer for my PTSD so my emotions are at a manageable level. I have been on this medication since I was diagnosed  10 years ago. That is why this is so easy for me. I have been through this once before with my ex husband. That was not easy. That was when I got my diagnosis. I had to go through a divorce with a young child without medication. This is nothing compared to that.


My daughter is 15.75 and at this point it is her decision to unfriend him or not. Should I need to pull the plug tomorrow I will. As my ex has already told my daughter goodbye I do not think that will be necessary.


I do not have hope that my relationship will recover, I do know that recovery from BPD is possible so I will not condemn my ex. I am not hoping the phone will ring, I am leaving a door open for a therapist to contact me in case my ex seeks out diagnosis and treatment.

My ex told his father not to contact him so he will not be sending him messages.

My relationship with his father is separate from my relationship with him.

His father is supporting me in not taking his calls or emails. It was his father's idea and to keep him 2500 miles away from me. His father is helping me. My father would not help me with any man in my life including the man who took my virginity at age 17, to be blunt. I will start a new thread on the coping board to deal with my father. Currently I am dealing with my mother.

I confess that I am skeptical of this as a tactic for getting over an emotional bond. But if that's how you want to go about it, here's a practical question: how will you participate in this board without ever thinking of him?

Here's how it works. I think of him, I cut it off. I can report to the board when I think of him. It takes mental and spiritual strength. I am taking medication so that my brain can cope. I have a spiritual life so that my spirit can cope. I pray morning and evening, I read the scriptures, I pray all day. That is how it works. I was trained in ascetic theology in 1999. I can do this. I have a vast network of religious support available to me. We are having a service on Wednesday. I am going to try to go to confession again this week to help me dealing with my mother. There is nothing more I can do.

You can be open to exploring your thoughts. That's more or less goes on here. But it sounds like you have other ideas about how detaching works. How do you see it working?

Hi steelwork the way detaching works in a Christian sense  is you cut off the insane thought. You are not responsible for it but you do not entertain it. That is ascetic theology. Do not entertain the thought. That is the descent into madness. Sobriety teaches me I am not responsible for the first thought I am responsible for the second thought. Since I have never detached from a borderline person before I do not know how to do this but I do know that Randi Kreger applies al-anon detachment to BPD people. I am doing all I can to detach from this relationship. In Al-anon we detach with love. Since I am prone to anger this is especially important for me. I have a prayer to help me eradicate anger and increase love. I have opposite action to help me change my feeling. There is nothing more I can do.

I'm not familiar with the ascetic theology, and it doesn't fit quite how I've healed from my breakup very well.


What worked better for me was to draw a distinction between feelings and more active thoughts/plans.

There are a lot of trains of thought that are unhealthy and deserve to be cut off, especially if they would lead you to actions that seem unhealthy (for example re-connecting with your ex before he's done a heck of a lot of healing!)

But your feelings are very real, and very valid, and letting yourself feel them without acting on them is the way I dealt with things like this.

Feeling angry at him isn't the problem. At least until you open your mouth or write an email.

Same with missing him. If that feeling comes, it is real too. Letting it push you into another recycle? Not a good idea.

Try to be mindful of and honor the feelings that come up if you can. And know that it is actually very hard to do this.

Ok fair enough. Today I've gone from elated at my freedom to feeling frustrated that I can't vent to him about my parental stress. My previous therapist and my parental stress volunteer both told me venting to him about my parental stress was healthy. I'm feeling really symptomatic and I have to take my daughter to the doctor so this hard. I need to see my doctor but my daughter comes first so I'm going have to wait till tomorrow. Members of the undecided board told me not to lean on my ex for emotional support so this is  really hard.

Hi unicorn2014


Some people say there is a time and place for everything. Though venting might have it's merits at times, do you feel like venting is the most constructive way to deal with stress in the long-run? Can you perhaps envision other methods that might help you alleviate the stress you are experiencing in a more constructive manner?


Perhaps it might help to consider how leaning on him for emotional support has worked out in the past. You are feeling stressed and frustrated, but looking back, has reaching out to him for emotional support ever been a consistent help to you or did the relationship with him ultimately cause you even more stress and frustration?

It might help to try and distance yourself from the day-to-day shifts in emotions and not immediately act upon these feelings as you might feel very differently the next day.

I hope all goes well with your daughter and that you will also be able to see your own doctor

Thank you you are right. I was told that venting is good so I can vent to the parental stress line and to my therapist.

I won't act on my daily feelings. I'm on a roller coaster. I'm feeling feelings from my divorce + my breakup + the stress of single parenting + PTSD + not having enough money this week to buy new sandals + not getting enough sleep.