BPDFamily.com

I think that I've done a fairly good job of detaching. The recent lies, deceit, and attempts at manipulation by my uBPDexgf didn't have much effect. I was angry at her for the hypocrisy, but that's really as far as it went.

We were both at a social gathering last night. It's the first time that we've been in the same place at the same time since we split. Basically, she stayed on one side, I stayed on the other. I barely even noticed that she was there.

This morning, she sent me a text message. I'm so used to being manipulated by her I can only believe that she was fishing. I kept the convo short and LC.

I don't want a romantic r/s with her anymore. I don't even think that a real friendship would even be possible. I have a beautiful woman I am interested in and who wants to spend time with me too. I brought her to the event last night, so I'm sure that has something to do with the texts.

The thing that I'm stuck on at this moment is my desire to talk to her still. That is the only part of the r/s that I still miss. I can't figure out how to get unstuck from that.

For nons, talking means communication which leads to resolution.  That's why we value talking. For pwBPD talking usually does not equal communication and therefore no resolution. So keep that in mind.

I wonder what I could possibly be trying to resolve at this point though?

Apparently I'm still trying to hold onto something, but I can't figure out what that would be.

Do you want to talk to her, with her, or at her?  Or do you want to listen to her?  What do you want to say?  What do you want to hear?

Very good questions!

Talk with her, about anything not related to relationships. To hear her voice and laughter. To talk to her about the stuff that we used to talk about when things weren't chaotic.

That leads me to believe that I'm missing the good times that we shared. I guess that is a pretty good indicator that I'm not as over her or detached as I thought.

It's weird because I try to have those types of conversations with others and they just seem dry, dull, and boring.

TY FH2H!

Maybe you're not talking to exciting, engaging people?  Or maybe, if your ex is anything like mine, the mellow, fun times were also exciting because she may explode at any moment, or go screw some guy, or have a meltdown and curl up in a fetal position, so even the good times were volatile, and it was always the case of giving me a little of what I wanted, but never enough and never for long.  That's exciting!  That's unpredictable!  And certainly not boring.  Your gal too or no?

Yes, she was volatile, but that isn't the part that I am addicted to anymore. She had/has an energy about her. That's what I'm addicted to; that's why I had been destroying all my boundaries when she'd contact me.

Everything that she did, she did with a passion. Even shopping for soup!

But, now, when she contacts me, she seems timid. The energy is gone. Of course, I'm to blame for that in her eyes. I guess in a way I am. I have taken my control back.

I changed how I respond to her today when she contacted me. I was less "urgent" and far less interested. The discussion stayed calm and short. It lacked all of the intensity that I have become so used to having in my world.

Yeah, I know what you mean.  That intensity would have killed me though, and really it was unsustainable and fake, although it sure was a buzz.  I went skydiving the other day; that was a buzz that could have killed me too, think I'll find my buzzes in places like that instead of a relationship.

Yeah, my T says that I'm a high sensation seeker and that may be why I am so addicted to the r/s. Skydiving was one of her suggestions for a healthier replacement.

No kidding!  That's cool.  I'm a pilot too, and although skydiving was that buzz, I don't really see the point in jumping out of a perfectly good airplane, although I'm glad I did it.

I've been learning about trauma responses lately, there are four, fight, flight, freeze and fawn, and we've all got a primary one and a secondary one that are predominant, and the healthier we are the more balanced the four are.

I have a flight response primarily and a freeze response secondarily, and point is folks with a flight response are prone to becoming adrenaline junkies.  The overall concept is labelled 'left brain dissociation", where we think, and overthink, to avoid feeling.  And chasing adrenaline rushes is another way to avoid feeling.  Well duh, only did that for a few decades, but it's nice to know someone understands, and more importantly, the solution is simple: feel more.  Which involves slowing down and just being instead of doing, something I had no hope in hell of doing 20 years ago, say, but is becoming easier with age, knowledge, and techniques.  Life is getting great!  Thanks in part to a borderline... .

I learned about the four trauma responses when I started learning about C-PTSD and I came across Pete Walker's books. I am also primarily flight, with fawn being secondary. At some point in my r/s with my pwBPD, I started using fight until it proved ineffective and then resorted to flight. I suspect that I'm still in fight mode, but it has morphed into a different type of fighting.

Since all that I can do at this point is face the feelings head on and go through them, that's what I'm doing. There is no more denying the reality of my situation. Man, my brain is trying to though!

Yes, I began fighting in my relationship too, although it wasn't a natural response, it was me consciously using her tactics against her, which didn't work at resolving anything, but it felt good.  And like you I then resorted to my flight response and bailed, which think about it, bailing in flight mode is abandonment to a borderline, the worst thing that can happen, and I have to admit when I learned that a few months after I left her it felt good, anger and vindictiveness brewing.


There's a couple of things there.  Pete Walker talks about how to avoid emotional flashbacks and stop them if we end up in one, very beneficial.  The other piece, what I consider a gift of the relationship, is like you I've found my fight mode.  My understanding is we all have all four modes, and the more we can use the appropriate mode in a given context the healthier, and it becomes a problem when we default to our primary response regardless.  For example, in future relationships, when there's a relationship challenge I could just bail, always works, although it also destroys the relationship, where it would make more sense to stick around a have a healthy fight and work towards resolution yes?  So developing the ability to defend our boundaries and practice self protection is a good thing, a very good thing, call it fight mode if you want, but I think I'll keep it.  And like you I've gone over the top a few times, but that's OK, on the way to finding a healthy balance.

Funny thing really, i remember some time ago i actually caught myself holding conversations with her in my mind.

Not really a imaginary friend kind of thing. I guess it was part of me that was still trying to speak to who she used to be before she devaluated, and try to convince that old her that she was trowing something good away... .

Meanwhile i learned so much that i know that person i tried to talk to just isn't there, and might never have been 100% real... .

The key to this is Mirroring. You where having a conversation with someone who went out of their way to be on the same wavelength with you. And to mirror your feelings and interests.

This literally made me LOL.  I think my favorite part is that now, in retrospect, those meltdowns that wound up with her in the fetal position were all my fault!  "You called me hysterically from work and left me three voice mails in the space of five minutes when I was in a meeting with my boss for two hours and when I didn't respond you took the rest of the day off drove home and ate an entire half gallon of ice cream while leaving the kids at daycare for me to pick up.  But, yes - after I got home with the kids, made dinner for all of us, bathed our children and put them to bed while you polished off a bottle of wine by yourself - when I had the chutzpah to ask why you couldn't help me out at all and you lost your mind in a rage then retreated to bed with one of the kid's stuffed animals that was totes my fault.  Or something."

My B.

EXCITEMENT

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/5xtDarE6xDVfXhudrVK/200_s.gif)

Well that sounds like loads of fun!  I can relate.  What I used to do, after I'd stopped caring and wanted to screw with her, was after she told me her behavior was all my fault, I reminded her how much control that gave me; if her behaviors were always in response to mine, I could do whatever I wanted and totally control her, since she was always reacting instead of acting.  I think she burned part of the ceiling with the steam coming out of her ears after that one, fun at the time though... .

And how dysfunctional, yes?  I was in a place where I didn't care and was doing everything I could think of to send her into a tizzy, which was easy, and it was sad it had come to that, and was really a survival mechanism on my part, since trying the take her and the relationship seriously was driving me insane.  It wasn't until I left that I dropped all that and got serious about my detachment and my life, and started to really feel what I hadn't felt when I was in it.  Can you relate Icant?

Actually, no, those aren't the conversations that I was talking about. I know why you would think that though. I am talking about the ones that had nothing to do with me, the things that I might be interested in, the things that I might want, etc. Her doing her own thing conversations. Again, shopping for a can of soup was done with passion. The same level of passion that she'd have when she raged. I could, and did, sit there and listen to her for hours.

Still more text messages from her btw. Some sweet, some indifferent, some accusatory, many trying to figure out why I act the way that I act; all with passion.

I'm working on utilizing different responses when we communicate now. My T suggests that I use the flight one exclusively and say good-bye. Not quite ready for that though.

Well, this is odd (to me at least), and I'm trying not to read anything into it.

So, some random guy who is friends with my x sent me a friend request on FB. He may be her new guy, I dunno. He works at the same place though and she is in his friend's list. He went through my life events and "liked" my getting engaged to the "other woman" years ago, the end of that r/s, and when I got into a r/s with my x.

Then he said that he'd attend an event that I'm doing.

Next, he sent the "other woman" a friend request.

And, the drama continues.

My friend and my ex engaged with one another on FB with what can only be viewed as a game to insight jealousy.

Ouch. How do you feel about that?

At first, I found it amusing. Then my x posted something that was specifically designed to hurt me with no one else knowing.

That just reminded me that she still cares about me. It also served as a reminder of what she's really all about.

I can't help but wonder what it was like for her new guy to sit there and watch his gf act like that? If he figured out what was going on, and I can't see how he couldn't know, that couldn't have felt too good.

On the flip side, maybe my x will finally figure out that my friend is really just my friend.

I dunno.  It's 4:30 am where I'm at, and I've been up for an hour; twisted up by thoughts and emotions over the whole thing. A bunch of what if's and if only's running through my mind. I'm trying to stay focused on what is tangible.

I am missing my x, but I'm not sure why at this point.

Today promises to be fun. Another social event where my x will be.

We've had NC for two days now. I'm actually good with that. It is helping me clear the fog that has recently been created.

I may have to block her on social media again. There is no direct communication from her, but my imagination gets carried away and I think that some of the things she posts are directed towards me. I keep reminding myself that this is just wishful thinking and that I just need to move on.

After reading this thread, I'm having a hard time working out how you are going to get the space necessary to clear your head enough to move on, your ex, friends, her replacements(?) all in your life and social circle. I would be worried about getting pulled back into the FOG, which might explain why you are up at 4:30 AM!

And, that's exactly what happened. I was NC for almost 2 months. I thought that I was a lot more detached and stronger than I was. I got pulled back in. Thankfully, she's got other plans for life.

But, what has happened as a result isn't all bad. I FINALLY was able to cry about the whole thing.

OK cool I'm glad that this gave you insight and finally crying is almost euphoric in the sense of how much pressure it relieves.

Just take care ok mate!

We get caught in their spell and believe that we are somehow different or special.

I've been thinking about the FB postings and such. It made me feel loved ay first that my x posted things that I knew were designed to elicit an emotional reaction from me. That must mean that she wanted me to think about her, right? Possibly, and it did, but not in a good way. I have no idea whether she wanted me to think of her in a good way or a bad way. I'm not sure, if that is what she was actually doing, that she knows either. I guess that it doesn't really matter though. It did give her control and did cause me to think. Mission accomplished.

So, now my mission is to stop the games. Even if, or especially if, the games were designed to set up a recycle, they must be stopped. I don't want people in my life based on games, manipulation, or any other reason than an open and honest desire to be part of my world. There has already been too much dishonesty and deceit. It's time to regain some self-respect.

My obsession with holding onto things with my x is really about trying to regain the comfort from familiarity. That would explain why I can see how miserable I'm afraid it would be, how I don't like things about her, but how I want her. Is it really her that I want, or it's the familiar comfort?

My x is quite a bit like my mother. Far too many animals. Appears strong, but is helpless. Abusive to me. I always felt not good enough. Brags about how much her things cost and only wants the best, name brand. Introduced me to a lot of unusual foods. Makes herself appear larger than life. Is secretly scared and angry about many things. Has to be the center of attention. Removes people from her life that have offended her.

My T has been telling me that she's a replacement for my mother, and that by trying to win her back, I'm actually trying to quash the feelings that I have towards my mother. It's a way of trying to prove to myself that I am, in fact, good enough.

Not sure what to do with this information just yet, but it certainly explains why I'm stuck.

Yes!  excellent point... .

I think that is what helped get me unstuck too.  "it wasn't real"  and I say that not because I don't believe my ex didnt' feel it at the time.  The point is he could feel the complete opposite just hours or days later too so therefore I could not trust it to be real in his core.  If I can't believe you, trust you, I can't love you as my partner.  I need to have a partner that I can depend on and my ex BPD was too unpredictable.  It causeed inconisistency, instability and shaky ground for me.  I know myself and that doesn't work for me: it just breeds insecurities, unknowns, and fears in me. I need to know who you are.  I need you to know who you are and then I just need you to be you.  I can deal with imperfections, flaws, weaknesses.

This was true of my r/s also. In fact, she told me one day that she wouldn't ever actually tell me anything with any level of certainty because I would trust her words and expect them to still hold true later. They often didn't.

Her feelings about me would also flip-flop. But, we are all probably familiar with the idealization and devaluation. She could go from telling me how wonderful I am and how she wanted to spend her life with me, to telling me in no uncertain terms how much she loathed me. Then within a few hours she would be asking for forgiveness, telling me how much she loves me again. It was all very confusing.


Yes, the inconsistency and instability destroyed the foundation every time. It would also trigger my fears. I was willing to handle all of it too; the flaws, weaknesses, and imperfections. I just needed something that seemed real from her. But, her conflicting statements and stories prevented that from happening.

But, now realizing everything that I have learned and seen, I doubt that she would ever be able to provide me with the level of security that I need. More importantly, I am quite sure that she would not even be willing to try.

Meili,

Please try to remember this when you are missing her and the good times.  Remember how bad the bad felt too.  How alone, how insecure, how attacked, how confused and how lost you felt.  It overwhelms the good they give because it is such a deep hurt/betrayal.  The pendulum swings to both extremes unfortunately with BPD.  There are relationships out there that don't have this dynamic, where you can talk to one another and love one another openly. Yes you will still get your feelings hurt but your partner will feel compassion and comfort you in those times.  You've come a long way and seem to be doing a great job and working through this difficult situation-

Wishing you the best,
Bunny   

Thank you Bunny. I do try to remember the bad.

There is another dynamic to my r/s that adds to the confusion; my C-PTSD. Some of the things that I remember my x did, she may not have actually done. Don't get me wrong, there are numerous things that I cannot deny happened.  But, I get stuck in what was her mess, and what was mine? I'm working on mine though.

The fact remains that I need someone who I feel secure with. That's going to take someone who is willing to understand what I go through, much like our trying to understand what pwBPD experience. That's going to be really hard for me to find. Because I don't trust people, it's going to be even harder.

This all goes back to my longing for my x, she made me feel comfortable. She met my basic survival needs. That was huge for me. But, she never tried to understand the other part of it.

Yet another sleepless night. It isn't because I'm ruminating or having obsessive thoughts about my x that I cannot sleep. It's because of all of the repressed emotions that my r/s with her has brought to the surface. Emotions that I do not remember ever feeling before. Many of which I cannot describe or name because I do not actually understand them.

I realize that may sound strange, but when you have never known anything but trauma, you tend to live trauma. I'm so tried of living in trauma... .So very tired... .

I tend to believe that look at my x the way that most here look at theirs, but with a twist. It seems that most, when the r/s is over, believe that they will never find the feelings of love that they feel for their ex in another person. That somehow their ex is the only person on the planet able to illicit those types of feelings. I have that same problem, but it's the times when I actually felt safe with her that I think that I'll never find again. Times like when she would be cooking and just glance at me and smile. Or like when we would go to bed at night and I would just hold her; everything was calm and serene. Even when she was raging, I could tell that our r/s was the most important thing in the world to her at that moment and she was willing to do anything and everything to hold onto it. Strangely, that made me feel safe.

It strikes me as odd that by depersonalizing and disassociating the chaos, I have actually developed deeper feelings for my x. It has made the love I feel grow stronger rather than allowing it to dissipate. When I truly believed that she disliked me, it was easier to walk away. What happened after I reached out to her changed that belief, and has made it increasingly difficult to give up how safe, warm, and loved I felt. It's even harder to force myself to walk away this time as a result. I simply do not want to do it.

This has put me in a position that is really unique to me. I was able to walk away before because I truly believed that it was the best thing for her. What I ultimately wanted didn't matter to me. Yes, I wanted my pain to stop, so that helped; but it was to protect her that caused me to walk. Since I've been focusing on me, my wants, my needs, and my desires, that has all changed. It is no longer about protecting her. It's about being selfish and giving up the hope because I have wants, needs, and desires for my life. I want her to be part of that, but my wants do not control her decisions.

I do realize that I started this with comments about not ruminating and obsessing about her and the r/s, and then proceeded to write a lot about her and the r/s. The thing is, it really is about me, what I want for myself and how I feel. I am just now learning to express those things so it may be coming across as being about something else.

So, now I'm left with the choice: I ether fully commit to working to starting a new r/s with her and face all the possible pains that come with that, or I walk away and face all of the possible pains that come with that. Either way, I hurt someone that I care about. Either way, I suffer. Either way, I will ultimately end up a healthier, happier person as a result because I have to work through my stuff. It's truly a horrible position to be in.

I honestly just want the pain of indecision to end. It will at some point. I has to.

Meili
This is such a strange coincidence. As you know I have been struggling this week. I was laid in my bed about an hour ago and from nowhere, from 4o odd years ago, a conversation I had with my dad popped up. He was a gentle wise man and had no idea what his own father had done to his sisters and much later me, I think that would have killed him. Anyway, I was crying and asking him, what's wrong with me dad, why do I keep being hurt by men, why do I keep letting this happen. And he answered gently, " because you shrink from hurting people sweetheart and in that process hurt them even more ". I'm not sure where I am going with this, it's too new but does it strike any chords with you?

Love Sadly x

Yes, that resonates with me Sadly. I do just that.

For me, there are several things at play. The most prevalent one is my not wanting to hurt people so that, in turn, I don't have to experience rejection. As long as everyone is happy, no one is rejecting me; or so my subconscious thinks.  It is a lot like spinning plates on poles in a minefield however. Trying to dance around the mines to keep the plates spinning, all the while hoping that none of the plates fall and trigger a mine. Inevitably, that's what happens though and a mine explodes.

Also, because of FOO issues, my subconscious thinks that I'm not allowed to do things that upset people because that only leads to causing me pain.

What's interesting is that in my r/s with my x, I openly did things that caused her pain (maintained the friendship with my friend). I was in pure survival mode at that point though. I was running on autopilot. I maintained the friendship because it was the only place that consistently felt safe for me. My x had pulled so far away from me that she showed little to no love or affection for me. I had told her that I felt like we were a couple on paper only. Rather than trying to give me what I needed, she pushed harder.

To be fair, there was a two week period where my x was the most perfect, loving woman. She went out of her way to make me feel safe, secure, and loved. I cut the friend out of my life immediately. During couples counseling, our counselor asked what had been done differently. I commented on my x's actions. When asked what I had done differently, I froze. I didn't want to bring up the friend at all, so I said, "nothing." I actually said that I had done nothing differently during that two week period of bliss. My x was mortified. It hurt her deeply. I was trying to avoid hurting her, and did just that.

Then, when given the chance to reconcile recently, I tried something different. I pushed away the friend. I stopped worrying about hurting others, and started to look at what I really want and what I'm willing to do to get it. That almost worked. When my x told me that she was seeing someone, I pulled the friend back because I needed to feel safe. And, that is the end of that story. I haven't heard much from my x since. Just that she's disappointed. Now I have NC with her. That's fine. I want her to be happy after all.

So, that was a bit of a ramble that got off topic. Sorry. I'm still trying to reconcile all of my feelings on the matter. I know that I need to figure out how to self-soothe and stop hurting people. I'm trying to work out how to be alone and not rely on my friend. It would be easy if I had my x to talk to, but I don't and if she were ever inclined to try to reconcile again, she won't be the one to make the first move.

Mieli,

Take one emotion at a time.  You have been through alot and you have alot of dysfunctional emotional needs because of your past but you also have realistic/healthy needs... .it takes time to decipher through them.  Not sure if I mentioned it to you before but your statement "but it's the times when I actually felt safe with her that I think that I'll never find again."  You've got to keep this in perspective.  you clearly say "the times" meaning that it wasn't consistent.  You will feel this again with someone else and it will be ALL OF THE TIME.  I promise you that it is out there.  You should ALWAYS feel safe with your partner.  Your partner should be your go to person when life gets rough.  I think this is a healthy expectation.

You also mentioned "even when she was raging, I could tell that our r/s was the most important thing to her... ."  This is one that concerns me.  When someone is "raging" at you... .they are NOT demonstrating that this r/s is the most important thing to them.  This is similar to the dynamic between an abusive husband and abused wife.  Her thoughts are, "you don't understand, he loves me so much that it just makes him crazy when he thinks he is going to lose me and he can't control himself."  NO NO NO NO... .this is a connection that I don't feel is healthy.  Both the abuser and abused relate on this "deep" level of closeness because both are breaking boundaries so they have this unique bond that most can't identify with so it seems even more special.  

This is an exageration but still just to elaborate on the point... .it's like 2 people that commit crimes together.  They feel a special bond with one another because they share and understand the need of the other.  

When you talk about when she dislikes you, it makes it easier, I totally get that.  When she is open and wanting to work things out, it is harder to say no I don't want to.  I used to be like that and my therapist categorized it as Co-dependent because I was so willing to "take one for the team" alot of the time.  Trying to save others all the time or taking care of them instead of myself.  

You are right, you have a choice to make.  Hurting someone you care about is nothing to feel guilty about... .you can have compassion for their pain but to not make a decision that is best for you to not hurt someone else is a no no.  If you start that, where does it end?  For example, she cheats on you so you break up with her... .she is hurt so you take her back.  :)on't be mean, don't deliberately inflict pain but if taking care of yourself hurts someone else so deeply then something is off here.

I understand your last statment and the feelings associated with committing or walking away but I want you to think about each one in detail.  Play it like a story in your head.  One should offer you relief, less anxiety.  

You might be able to handle a relationship with a BPD so I want you to feel free to make that choice.  But how will you feel if you give it another try and you are in this exact same place 2 months from now?  How much of this can you really handle?  That is your call to make and it is ok to give it one last hoo raw.  

You can have the love you seek without all the drama, just remember that.  So if you decide to give things another try and it doesn't work out... .know that you can find that feeling and it will be even better and stronger when it is with someone healthy because it will grow deeper daily instead of being to tore down daily.

Take care Meili and whatever decision you make, put in 100%.  

Bunny

  

 

Honey... .anyone can be perfectly loving for 2 weeks. Your giving her too much credit.  Trying to be the best you can be is a daily struggle for all of us.  2 weeks?  that's a fail... .   The point I'm trying to get to is that even when she is upset or you two have a problem or she is mad... .she can still be loving as she expresses this to you.  Her getting hurt does not justify her raging or being mean. This is not something you did that "ruined" it.  Her feelings just are but her behavior/response is a CHOICE. 
You should be able to describe your partner as "loving" even in the most stressful traumatic times.  Even if we have a moment that we snap at our partner and she says, "whoa where did that come from?." A healthy and loving response is "I am so sorry, I'm stressed and didn't mean to respond to you like that. I love you followed with hugs and kisses.  I know you aren't used to this... .it sounds like you are more used to being punished when you hurt someone.  It just takes time to start thinking differently. 

By the way, how do you fight?  When you get mad, do you yell, say mean things, walk away, get quiet?  Just curious how you cope.

Bunny
 

Thank you for your responses Bunny, the truly do mean a lot to me. I've needed "a shoulder to cry on" lately and no one in my world understands. No one can see why I don't just walk away. I know that the people here get it though.

My T agrees with you btw. She told me that I show all of the signs of "battered woman syndrome." Your response to my comment about my x raging is spot on. I do look at it as "if she didn't love me so much, she wouldn't be doing this." When she does it, I completely shut down emotionally and just allow her to go as I stubbornly maintain my position of "it's over." And, then, when we've both cooled down, I go right back. This time, she's changed that dynamic and won't take me back.

I also completely agree with you about the "two weeks" and "times feeling safe" parts. It should always be that way. That was actually one of the major issues that I had with the r/s. I would stand there telling her that I needed to feel safe with her and she'd just keep going down the rabbit hole.

I keep playing out the staying/leaving scenarios in my head. Both create anxiety. One is familiar, the other is not. One provides at least moments of serenity, the other does not. One is fueled by addiction, the other is not. The problem is that I cannot get unstuck. The only way that appears to unstick me is to try yet again to make things work with her. I don't mean that to sound as trite as it does btw. It is a true desire to make things work because she is the person that I want to grow old with. Again, my T points to the battered woman syndrome when I make comments like that to her.

As for how I fight. Well, that changed over the course of the r/s. In the beginning, I was very calm, and would only be passive aggressive. Toward the end, I was angry, but I never complained if she didn't do it first. One of the things that she complained about with me was that every time we'd get into a fight (meaning she'd start one), I would turn it around back on her and complain about a whole list of things that I had not mentioned previously. I admit that I did that. At the end, all the calm was gone and I'd yell and defend myself out of anger. I would completely stop listening to what she was trying to tell me and make it about how I felt. I JADEd a lot.

I'm struggling a bit today as I regain my detachment. I'm once again mourning the loss of what could have been. Tomorrow will be 7 days since my last communication with my x. She's stopped contacting me, and I've stopped contacting her. There was no discussion about it, it's just what has happened. Since she has accused me of push/pull and sucking her back in, I'm going to avoid doing that.

It's been really hard not to reach out to her and remind her that I'm still here if she wants me. I just assume that she knows and that she doesn't want me and keep the focus on myself and my improvements.

I had an interesting thing happen today. I was chatting online with a friend about the changes in my life. I was trying to explain to her why I "know" that my x won't try to recycle. But, I accidentally sent that message to the friend who "created" the distrust my x feels for me. All along, this friend has just been my friend. She's been supportive of everything. She's listened to my woes, my struggle, my trials. She's encouraged my attempts at reconciliation. She's scoffed at my x's accusations that my friend wanted a romantic relationship with me. She's been my best friend. But, this morning the message hurt her. She told me that she can't talk to me.

I suppose that there is some good in this though. At least now she won't have to be an issue for my x if she ever decides that she wants to come back.

Well, time to reset the NC clock. She contacted me this morning because she needed information about an event she's putting together. She could have gotten the info elsewhere, but I guess that I was the easiest source.

I did something different this time though, I just remained detached and indifferent, but polite. I didn't continue the conversation. I just answered her question, wished her well, and told her to take care. She sent another email that didn't say anything of any importance, so I didn't respond. It actually felt good.

When I first saw that I had an email from her, I felt sick to my stomach. When I didn't respond to the second one, I realized that I've turned a corner. Even though I long to hear from her, I think that I'm done chasing her and accepting the little scraps that she throws my way. I'm here if she wants me, but she's going to have to show that she wants me. And, I don't mean by just cracking the door and expecting me to force my way in.

I feel that the change in the dynamic is good. It's like saying no to that first drink for an alcoholic. Before the dynamic was that she's set a drink on the bar and I'd slam it down and beg for more. Even if it was the rot-gut swill, I'd drink it as fast as I could. I've decided that I deserve top-shelf, and that I'm allowed to savor it rather than slam it like a high school kid at a keg party who is trying to get intoxicated as fast as possible.

Man, it was hard not to respond to the second email though... .

Meili,

I'm glad you were able to stay detached and indifferent.  It is a much better place for you to be.  It's interesting that when you first saw the email from her, you felt sick to your stomach.  That is your gut telling you something... .listen.

The other piece about that friend of yours that won't be an issue anymore if your ex comes back... .be prepared because there will be a new issue, a new ultimatum.  That is just the way it usually is with their demands.  

Have a good day and glad you feel like you are in a better place today,
Bunny

Thanks Bunny.

So, apparently, I was completely wrong about my friend just being a friend. We went to lunch with another friend, and I was asked out at lunch. I accepted. My friend got upset again.

I really don't get it. We've had a lot of discussions about not being involved together (again), and the fact that I can't be involved with anyone until I get over my x and deal with my issues. I guess that I'm just that naive and trust people for what they tell me. This one was hard because her actions have consistently matched her words until today. Maybe she's just going through her own thing?

One thing that I do know, I'm not going to allow her getting upset to keep me from going out with the woman who asked me (this will be the second time that we've gone out). I think that I'm getting to the point where I can say no and not put other's feelings before my own.

Interesting.  Yes a little confusing.  Ask the friend what upset her.  Maybe... .it is because your on the fence about the ex.  Like one day you are hoping the ex will come back, the next you are saying you need to move on.  Maybe it isn't about her wanting more from you... .  just the yo-yoing back and forth. It's hard for our friends to watch us do this stuff to ourselves.   How long ago were you two an item?

But I think it's important for you to go out with this woman and spend sometime with her.  I hope you are able to focus on the healthy aspects of the attraction and give it a chance to grow.

Bunny

I can see how it could look to others that I'm undecided about the thing with my x. I try to be really consistent in wanting my x back, but accepting that she isn't coming back. One does not negate the other.

Next month will be two years since my friend and I officially ended our romantic r/s. About six months before that, I had moved into a different bedroom of the house and we started detaching. And, six months before that we had decided that we were done, but then decided to give it one last try because we had been together for so long and had so much history. So, "how long ago" really depends on POV, but the technical answer is that we've been apart, romantically, for two years now. There's a lot of caring between the two of us, but there isn't romantic love and hasn't been for over three years.

I'll definitely go tomorrow. I had a lot of fun with her the last time.

Sad today. I'm not sure why. It's probably just everything that has been going on and all of the changes that have been made and that I'm going through.

I woke-up in the middle of a dream last night. I was at a funeral. I have no idea whose funeral it was, or if there were other people there. I stop the casket from being lowered into the grave and put a treasure chest on top of it. They wouldn't go into the hole, so I jumped on them. With a sudden jerk, they plummeted into a free fall. I thought to myself that the fall was silly because a grave is only 6 feet deep, but there I was falling.

The easy interpretation is my letting go of the delusions about how good the r/s was and that I'm finally letting it die. My having to jump on the boxes was because I have been stuck. I'm not sure about the free fall though.

Also, I've been fighting the urge to respond to my x's last email that didn't warrant a response. Historically, she would do that to start a conversation knowing that I would continue to respond for as long as she'd talk to me. I know that I'm the only one who can/will change the dynamics, so I can't open the dialog. Kinda sad that I can't do what I want to do.

Why are you fighting yourself so much?  If you want to respond respond.  Just know you will probably end up getting kicked in the teeth again.  You not responding is not going to teach her a lesson and make her want to change to get you back.  "Changing the dynamic" is to protect you not to magically fix her.  

So... .with that said if you want to... .reach out.  If you don't really want to then stop telling yourself you "can't". I think you might be having internal struggles going on because you think if you stick to this plan... .then she will see the light and get better and you can live happily ever after.  Regardless of who reaches out, this relationship is going to be treacherous and difficult if you decide to pursue it.  

I don't feel like you want to detach, I feel like you feel forced to detach.  Maybe you just need to confront it so that you can finally decide once and for all... .for yourself that YOU don't want this relationship.  

I think NO CONTACT is for people that want out, want the relationship to end, want the pain to stop, and want to move on.  Are you there yet?  It's ok if your not... .

Wishing you the best,
Bunny

I think that you're right, I think that I feel that I've been forced to detach. Well, I wouldn't say forced, I'm an adult, no one can force me to do anything. It is my choice, but it's the only choice that I think that I can reasonably make given the circumstances. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to reconcile, so I can either sit around pining over her, or I can detach. There really aren't a lot more options that I can see that have any merit.

I'm fighting myself so much because you're right, I don't want to detach. But, I also know that I must detach to move forward with my life. My emotions still want the illusion that was present, but my cognitive mind knows that isn't possible. So, I'm fighting myself because of 40+ years of training to act a certain way being in conflict with what I've learned only over the past six months. I'm fighting myself for the same reasons that all addicts struggle when going through withdrawal. I'm muddling through it the best way that I know how.

I understand that changing the dynamic is about and for me. That's why I am doing it. I have no delusions that it will change anything about her, make her miss me, make her desire to change, or anything like that. It's for my own sanity and comfort. I don't want the hurt anymore.

But, I must tell myself that I can't contact her. I can't allow myself to do it. I'm the only person who is preventing me from reaching out to her. I've decided that I can't, so I can't.

So, do I want to move on? Nope. But, given my options, it's really the only one that I have available that makes any sense to me.

Gosh so complicated.  My heart goes out to you.  You are in a very tough spot.  I've heard people on here reference it to an addiction.  I never quite understood that until now listening to you explain it.  I know you will get through this, I just am hoping it will get easier for you sooner rather than later.  
Bunny

Hi Meili-


You could muddle, or you could treat detachment like a project and get busy.  I don't know your whole story, but it's helpful to make a list of all the unacceptable behaviors you tolerated in the relationship, and that list will grow as you remember things, and then read it when you're tempted; it's a simple tool to help shift your focus.  What's the first thing on the list?

Then, consciously shift your focus further by focusing on you instead of her and the future instead of the past, creating a vision for your future that is compelling, without her in it, and then start moving in that direction; what does that look like?

The feeling of an "addiction" is common coming out of these relationships, as is a conflict between our heads and our hearts.  You can't trust your heart right now, so trust your head, do what you know is right, and eventually your heart will catch up with your head, and you can help it with focus shifts.  If you spend as much time and energy on detaching as you did in the relationship, that will be detaching as fast as you can.  Take care of you!  And answer my questions... .

While I appreciate the sentiment FH2H, I'm already doing what you suggested.

I spend every moment of free time devoted to myself and improving. I put far more energy into dealing with my issues than I ever did the r/s. Lists were made long ago, before the end of the r/s actually. At last count, there were at least 65 separate things listed from the 1.5 years together. The first things include trying to call the police because she wouldn't leave my house and her taking the phone away. Or her taking the most important possession that I own and threatening to burn/destroy it. Or her threatening to allege DV so as to put me in jail. Or her threats of suicide and DV. Oh, I have not forgotten the things that she did to me.The manipulation, the use of ex as a tool, the lies, the threats, the insults... .All that is still very present for me.

The focus has been on me for months now. She's a disaster, there no questioning that. All that I can do is focus on me. All that I can change is me. All that I can control is me. These are not just words, they are a way of life for me. I let her do her thing, and I do mine. If our paths cross again, fine. If not, that's fine too.

The question of the new version of me is really the hard part. The thing is, that has nothing to do with my x. That has everything to do with me and my history. With her, for the first time, I saw a future. Without her, the future can still be seen,  but the difference is that the desire for the future is gone. That is a lifetime of being taught that there is no future. My x, at this point, is really just a symptom of something much larger that is really outside the scope of the realm of these boards.

As for the head vs. heart thing. The head is far less trust-worthy than my heart at this point. My heart has been completely consistent in all of this. It is my head that is playing games.

Yes, I can relate Meili.  The way I look at it, would we be spending this much time and energy looking at who we are, how we've lived our lives, digging into our past and seeing how we're wired and why, if it wasn't for our exes?  Maybe, but probably not, not with this much motivation, and the way a borderline shines a light on issues that we can now deal with is one of the gifts of the relationship.  And ever notice everything we focus on gets better?  And when we get to the point where you are, where it's no longer about our exes and it becomes about us, a required stage of detachment, then there's the Personal Inventory board to start looking at what's up with us, what's going on with us, how we look at beliefs we may have been running for a long, long time from the frame of are they serving us today?  Are they empowering our lives or getting it our way?  This is the good news really, an opportunity to make sure our best days are ahead of us.  Take care of you!

Yes, it was a huge gift. I started to work on my issues before the r/s imploded. My x kept getting angry because "she made me better for the next r/s." I guess that she could have decided to pay more attention to this one and reaped the benefits, but that's out of my control.

But, if she hadn't chosen the path that she did, I probably would, as you said, not put forth the level of energy that I am now. So, I thank her for that. I also thank her for putting up with my insecurities for as long as she did. Don't get me wrong, I put up with hers too.

I have a posts on the Personal Inventory board. I keep a thread here to post stuff about the r/s and my x and try to keep the PI thread about me.