The Next Piece of the Puzzle

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I think that I've done a fairly good job of detaching. The recent lies, deceit, and attempts at manipulation by my uBPDexgf didn't have much effect. I was angry at her for the hypocrisy, but that's really as far as it went.

We were both at a social gathering last night. It's the first time that we've been in the same place at the same time since we split. Basically, she stayed on one side, I stayed on the other. I barely even noticed that she was there.

This morning, she sent me a text message. I'm so used to being manipulated by her I can only believe that she was fishing. I kept the convo short and LC.

I don't want a romantic r/s with her anymore. I don't even think that a real friendship would even be possible. I have a beautiful woman I am interested in and who wants to spend time with me too. I brought her to the event last night, so I'm sure that has something to do with the texts.

The thing that I'm stuck on at this moment is my desire to talk to her still. That is the only part of the r/s that I still miss. I can't figure out how to get unstuck from that.

[Meili]

I think that I've done a fairly good job of detaching. The recent lies, deceit, and attempts at manipulation by my uBPDexgf didn't have much effect. I was angry at her for the hypocrisy, but that's really as far as it went.

We were both at a social gathering last night. It's the first time that we've been in the same place at the same time since we split. Basically, she stayed on one side, I stayed on the other. I barely even noticed that she was there.

This morning, she sent me a text message. I'm so used to being manipulated by her I can only believe that she was fishing. I kept the convo short and LC.

I don't want a romantic r/s with her anymore. I don't even think that a real friendship would even be possible. I have a beautiful woman I am interested in and who wants to spend time with me too. I brought her to the event last night, so I'm sure that has something to do with the texts.

The thing that I'm stuck on at this moment is my desire to talk to her still. That is the only part of the r/s that I still miss. I can't figure out how to get unstuck from that.

[Wize]

For nons, talking means communication which leads to resolution.  That's why we value talking. For pwBPD talking usually does not equal communication and therefore no resolution. So keep that in mind.

[Meili]

I wonder what I could possibly be trying to resolve at this point though?

Apparently I'm still trying to hold onto something, but I can't figure out what that would be.

[fromheeltoheal]

The thing that I'm stuck on at this moment is my desire to talk to her still.

Do you want to talk to her, with her, or at her?  Or do you want to listen to her?  What do you want to say?  What do you want to hear?

[Meili]

Very good questions!

Talk with her, about anything not related to relationships. To hear her voice and laughter. To talk to her about the stuff that we used to talk about when things weren't chaotic.

That leads me to believe that I'm missing the good times that we shared. I guess that is a pretty good indicator that I'm not as over her or detached as I thought.

It's weird because I try to have those types of conversations with others and they just seem dry, dull, and boring.

TY FH2H!

[fromheeltoheal]

That leads me to believe that I'm missing the good times that we shared. I guess that is a pretty good indicator that I'm not as over her or detached as I thought.

It's weird because I try to have those types of conversations with others and they just seem dry, dull, and boring.

Maybe you're not talking to exciting, engaging people?  Or maybe, if your ex is anything like mine, the mellow, fun times were also exciting because she may explode at any moment, or go screw some guy, or have a meltdown and curl up in a fetal position, so even the good times were volatile, and it was always the case of giving me a little of what I wanted, but never enough and never for long.  That's exciting!  That's unpredictable!  And certainly not boring.  Your gal too or no?

[Meili]

Yes, she was volatile, but that isn't the part that I am addicted to anymore. She had/has an energy about her. That's what I'm addicted to; that's why I had been destroying all my boundaries when she'd contact me.

Everything that she did, she did with a passion. Even shopping for soup!

But, now, when she contacts me, she seems timid. The energy is gone. Of course, I'm to blame for that in her eyes. I guess in a way I am. I have taken my control back.

I changed how I respond to her today when she contacted me. I was less "urgent" and far less interested. The discussion stayed calm and short. It lacked all of the intensity that I have become so used to having in my world.

[fromheeltoheal]

It lacked all of the intensity that I have become so used to having in my world.

Yeah, I know what you mean.  That intensity would have killed me though, and really it was unsustainable and fake, although it sure was a buzz.  I went skydiving the other day; that was a buzz that could have killed me too, think I'll find my buzzes in places like that instead of a relationship.

[Meili]

Yeah, my T says that I'm a high sensation seeker and that may be why I am so addicted to the r/s. Skydiving was one of her suggestions for a healthier replacement.

[fromheeltoheal]

Skydiving was one of her suggestions for a healthier replacement.

No kidding!  That's cool.  I'm a pilot too, and although skydiving was that buzz, I don't really see the point in jumping out of a perfectly good airplane, although I'm glad I did it.

I've been learning about trauma responses lately, there are four, fight, flight, freeze and fawn, and we've all got a primary one and a secondary one that are predominant, and the healthier we are the more balanced the four are.

I have a flight response primarily and a freeze response secondarily, and point is folks with a flight response are prone to becoming adrenaline junkies.  The overall concept is labelled 'left brain dissociation", where we think, and overthink, to avoid feeling.  And chasing adrenaline rushes is another way to avoid feeling.  Well duh, only did that for a few decades, but it's nice to know someone understands, and more importantly, the solution is simple: feel more.  Which involves slowing down and just being instead of doing, something I had no hope in hell of doing 20 years ago, say, but is becoming easier with age, knowledge, and techniques.  Life is getting great!  Thanks in part to a borderline... .

[Meili]

I learned about the four trauma responses when I started learning about C-PTSD and I came across Pete Walker's books. I am also primarily flight, with fawn being secondary. At some point in my r/s with my pwBPD, I started using fight until it proved ineffective and then resorted to flight. I suspect that I'm still in fight mode, but it has morphed into a different type of fighting.

Since all that I can do at this point is face the feelings head on and go through them, that's what I'm doing. There is no more denying the reality of my situation. Man, my brain is trying to though!

[fromheeltoheal]

I learned about the four trauma responses when I started learning about C-PTSD and I came across Pete Walker's books. I am also primarily flight, with fawn being secondary. At some point in my r/s with my pwBPD, I started using fight until it proved ineffective and then resorted to flight. I suspect that I'm still in fight mode, but it has morphed into a different type of fighting.

Yes, I began fighting in my relationship too, although it wasn't a natural response, it was me consciously using her tactics against her, which didn't work at resolving anything, but it felt good.  And like you I then resorted to my flight response and bailed, which think about it, bailing in flight mode is abandonment to a borderline, the worst thing that can happen, and I have to admit when I learned that a few months after I left her it felt good, anger and vindictiveness brewing.

Since all that I can do at this point is face the feelings head on and go through them, that's what I'm doing. There is no more denying the reality of my situation. Man, my brain is trying to though!

There's a couple of things there.  Pete Walker talks about how to avoid emotional flashbacks and stop them if we end up in one, very beneficial.  The other piece, what I consider a gift of the relationship, is like you I've found my fight mode.  My understanding is we all have all four modes, and the more we can use the appropriate mode in a given context the healthier, and it becomes a problem when we default to our primary response regardless.  For example, in future relationships, when there's a relationship challenge I could just bail, always works, although it also destroys the relationship, where it would make more sense to stick around a have a healthy fight and work towards resolution yes?  So developing the ability to defend our boundaries and practice self protection is a good thing, a very good thing, call it fight mode if you want, but I think I'll keep it.  And like you I've gone over the top a few times, but that's OK, on the way to finding a healthy balance.

[woundedPhoenix]

The thing that I'm stuck on at this moment is my desire to talk to her still. That is the only part of the r/s that I still miss. I can't figure out how to get unstuck from that.

Funny thing really, i remember some time ago i actually caught myself holding conversations with her in my mind.

Not really a imaginary friend kind of thing. I guess it was part of me that was still trying to speak to who she used to be before she devaluated, and try to convince that old her that she was trowing something good away... .

Meanwhile i learned so much that i know that person i tried to talk to just isn't there, and might never have been 100% real... .

[woundedPhoenix]

It's weird because I try to have those types of conversations with others and they just seem dry, dull, and boring.

The key to this is Mirroring. You where having a conversation with someone who went out of their way to be on the same wavelength with you. And to mirror your feelings and interests.

[Icanteven]

she may explode at any moment, or go screw some guy, or have a meltdown and curl up in a fetal position, so even the good times were volatile, and it was always the case of giving me a little of what I wanted, but never enough and never for long.  That's exciting!  That's unpredictable!  

This literally made me LOL.  I think my favorite part is that now, in retrospect, those meltdowns that wound up with her in the fetal position were all my fault!  "You called me hysterically from work and left me three voice mails in the space of five minutes when I was in a meeting with my boss for two hours and when I didn't respond you took the rest of the day off drove home and ate an entire half gallon of ice cream while leaving the kids at daycare for me to pick up.  But, yes - after I got home with the kids, made dinner for all of us, bathed our children and put them to bed while you polished off a bottle of wine by yourself - when I had the chutzpah to ask why you couldn't help me out at all and you lost your mind in a rage then retreated to bed with one of the kid's stuffed animals that was totes my fault.  Or something."

My B.

EXCITEMENT

[fromheeltoheal]

This literally made me LOL.  I think my favorite part is that now, in retrospect, those meltdowns that wound up with her in the fetal position were all my fault!  "You called me hysterically from work and left me three voice mails in the space of five minutes when I was in a meeting with my boss for two hours and when I didn't respond you took the rest of the day off drove home and ate an entire half gallon of ice cream while leaving the kids at daycare for me to pick up.  But, yes - after I got home with the kids, made dinner for all of us, bathed our children and put them to bed while you polished off a bottle of wine by yourself - when I had the chutzpah to ask why you couldn't help me out at all and you lost your mind in a rage then retreated to bed with one of the kid's stuffed animals that was totes my fault.  Or something."

Well that sounds like loads of fun!  I can relate.  What I used to do, after I'd stopped caring and wanted to screw with her, was after she told me her behavior was all my fault, I reminded her how much control that gave me; if her behaviors were always in response to mine, I could do whatever I wanted and totally control her, since she was always reacting instead of acting.  I think she burned part of the ceiling with the steam coming out of her ears after that one, fun at the time though... .

And how dysfunctional, yes?  I was in a place where I didn't care and was doing everything I could think of to send her into a tizzy, which was easy, and it was sad it had come to that, and was really a survival mechanism on my part, since trying the take her and the relationship seriously was driving me insane.  It wasn't until I left that I dropped all that and got serious about my detachment and my life, and started to really feel what I hadn't felt when I was in it.  Can you relate Icant?

[Meili]

The key to this is Mirroring. You where having a conversation with someone who went out of their way to be on the same wavelength with you. And to mirror your feelings and interests.

Actually, no, those aren't the conversations that I was talking about. I know why you would think that though. I am talking about the ones that had nothing to do with me, the things that I might be interested in, the things that I might want, etc. Her doing her own thing conversations. Again, shopping for a can of soup was done with passion. The same level of passion that she'd have when she raged. I could, and did, sit there and listen to her for hours.

Still more text messages from her btw. Some sweet, some indifferent, some accusatory, many trying to figure out why I act the way that I act; all with passion.

I'm working on utilizing different responses when we communicate now. My T suggests that I use the flight one exclusively and say good-bye. Not quite ready for that though.

[Meili]

Well, this is odd (to me at least), and I'm trying not to read anything into it.

So, some random guy who is friends with my x sent me a friend request on FB. He may be her new guy, I dunno. He works at the same place though and she is in his friend's list. He went through my life events and "liked" my getting engaged to the "other woman" years ago, the end of that r/s, and when I got into a r/s with my x.

Then he said that he'd attend an event that I'm doing.

Next, he sent the "other woman" a friend request.

[Meili]

And, the drama continues.

My friend and my ex engaged with one another on FB with what can only be viewed as a game to insight jealousy.

[seenr]

My friend and my ex engaged with one another on FB with what can only be viewed as a game to insight jealousy.

Ouch. How do you feel about that?

[Meili]

At first, I found it amusing. Then my x posted something that was specifically designed to hurt me with no one else knowing.

That just reminded me that she still cares about me. It also served as a reminder of what she's really all about.

I can't help but wonder what it was like for her new guy to sit there and watch his gf act like that? If he figured out what was going on, and I can't see how he couldn't know, that couldn't have felt too good.

On the flip side, maybe my x will finally figure out that my friend is really just my friend.

I dunno.  It's 4:30 am where I'm at, and I've been up for an hour; twisted up by thoughts and emotions over the whole thing. A bunch of what if's and if only's running through my mind. I'm trying to stay focused on what is tangible.

I am missing my x, but I'm not sure why at this point.

[Meili]

Today promises to be fun. Another social event where my x will be.

We've had NC for two days now. I'm actually good with that. It is helping me clear the fog that has recently been created.

I may have to block her on social media again. There is no direct communication from her, but my imagination gets carried away and I think that some of the things she posts are directed towards me. I keep reminding myself that this is just wishful thinking and that I just need to move on.

[Ahoy]

Today promises to be fun. Another social event where my x will be.

We've had NC for two days now. I'm actually good with that. It is helping me clear the fog that has recently been created.

I may have to block her on social media again. There is no direct communication from her, but my imagination gets carried away and I think that some of the things she posts are directed towards me. I keep reminding myself that this is just wishful thinking and that I just need to move on.

After reading this thread, I'm having a hard time working out how you are going to get the space necessary to clear your head enough to move on, your ex, friends, her replacements(?) all in your life and social circle. I would be worried about getting pulled back into the FOG, which might explain why you are up at 4:30 AM!

[Meili]

And, that's exactly what happened. I was NC for almost 2 months. I thought that I was a lot more detached and stronger than I was. I got pulled back in. Thankfully, she's got other plans for life.

But, what has happened as a result isn't all bad. I FINALLY was able to cry about the whole thing.

[Ahoy]

And, that's exactly what happened. I was NC for almost 2 months. I thought that I was a lot more detached and stronger than I was. I got pulled back in. Thankfully, she's got other plans for life.

But, what has happened as a result isn't all bad. I FINALLY was able to cry about the whole thing.

OK cool I'm glad that this gave you insight and finally crying is almost euphoric in the sense of how much pressure it relieves.

Just take care ok mate!

[Meili]

We get caught in their spell and believe that we are somehow different or special.

I've been thinking about the FB postings and such. It made me feel loved ay first that my x posted things that I knew were designed to elicit an emotional reaction from me. That must mean that she wanted me to think about her, right? Possibly, and it did, but not in a good way. I have no idea whether she wanted me to think of her in a good way or a bad way. I'm not sure, if that is what she was actually doing, that she knows either. I guess that it doesn't really matter though. It did give her control and did cause me to think. Mission accomplished.

So, now my mission is to stop the games. Even if, or especially if, the games were designed to set up a recycle, they must be stopped. I don't want people in my life based on games, manipulation, or any other reason than an open and honest desire to be part of my world. There has already been too much dishonesty and deceit. It's time to regain some self-respect.

[Meili]

My obsession with holding onto things with my x is really about trying to regain the comfort from familiarity. That would explain why I can see how miserable I'm afraid it would be, how I don't like things about her, but how I want her. Is it really her that I want, or it's the familiar comfort?

My x is quite a bit like my mother. Far too many animals. Appears strong, but is helpless. Abusive to me. I always felt not good enough. Brags about how much her things cost and only wants the best, name brand. Introduced me to a lot of unusual foods. Makes herself appear larger than life. Is secretly scared and angry about many things. Has to be the center of attention. Removes people from her life that have offended her.

My T has been telling me that she's a replacement for my mother, and that by trying to win her back, I'm actually trying to quash the feelings that I have towards my mother. It's a way of trying to prove to myself that I am, in fact, good enough.

Not sure what to do with this information just yet, but it certainly explains why I'm stuck.

[bunny4523]

For nons, talking means communication which leads to resolution.  That's why we value talking. For pwBPD talking usually does not equal communication and therefore no resolution. So keep that in mind.

Yes!  excellent point... .

[bunny4523]

Meanwhile i learned so much that i know that person i tried to talk to just isn't there, and might never have been 100% real... .

I think that is what helped get me unstuck too.  "it wasn't real"  and I say that not because I don't believe my ex didnt' feel it at the time.  The point is he could feel the complete opposite just hours or days later too so therefore I could not trust it to be real in his core.  If I can't believe you, trust you, I can't love you as my partner.  I need to have a partner that I can depend on and my ex BPD was too unpredictable.  It causeed inconisistency, instability and shaky ground for me.  I know myself and that doesn't work for me: it just breeds insecurities, unknowns, and fears in me. I need to know who you are.  I need you to know who you are and then I just need you to be you.  I can deal with imperfections, flaws, weaknesses.

[Meili]

I think that is what helped get me unstuck too.  "it wasn't real"  and I say that not because I don't believe my ex didnt' feel it at the time.  The point is he could feel the complete opposite just hours or days later too so therefore I could not trust it to be real in his core.  If I can't believe you, trust you, I can't love you as my partner.  

This was true of my r/s also. In fact, she told me one day that she wouldn't ever actually tell me anything with any level of certainty because I would trust her words and expect them to still hold true later. They often didn't.

Her feelings about me would also flip-flop. But, we are all probably familiar with the idealization and devaluation. She could go from telling me how wonderful I am and how she wanted to spend her life with me, to telling me in no uncertain terms how much she loathed me. Then within a few hours she would be asking for forgiveness, telling me how much she loves me again. It was all very confusing.

I need to have a partner that I can depend on and my ex BPD was too unpredictable.  It causeed inconisistency, instability and shaky ground for me.  I know myself and that doesn't work for me: it just breeds insecurities, unknowns, and fears in me. I need to know who you are.  I need you to know who you are and then I just need you to be you.  I can deal with imperfections, flaws, weaknesses.

Yes, the inconsistency and instability destroyed the foundation every time. It would also trigger my fears. I was willing to handle all of it too; the flaws, weaknesses, and imperfections. I just needed something that seemed real from her. But, her conflicting statements and stories prevented that from happening.

But, now realizing everything that I have learned and seen, I doubt that she would ever be able to provide me with the level of security that I need. More importantly, I am quite sure that she would not even be willing to try.