BPDFamily.com

Hi - as I have posted before, we have been stuck in a cycle for the past few months.  Something trivial triggers him and he flips out and goes to bed.

 This cycle has been so consistent - it happens on a Wednesday afternoon or Thursday am - it can be something simple like too much traffic, a client says something to upset him or today's "incident" which was having to wait 20 minutes for a client appointment.  Once he goes to bed, I get the first call that he is sick - can't eat and is going to bed.  Then get a call between 6 and 7pm that he is really sick and I should not have dinner with him.  I don't make dinner and I stopped bringing him food.  Next, I get a call at 10pm, that he is weak and hasn't eaten.  I stopped answering that call because it is always the same.  Texts follow between 10 and midnight telling me he hates his life - he won't be in to work and he is done.  Next day, he texts or calls late morning to tell me he is still sick and in bed.   I have had a very bad habit in the past of reinforcing the behavior - bringing him coffee/food - stopping by his house to check on him. I know that I shouldn't have been doing that - I know I have been making it worse. 

Last week, the cycle started Wednesday afternoon.  I didn't answer his calls on Wednesday.  On Thursday, he stayed home - texted me he was really sick - that he has no food - that no one cares for him.  I didn't respond.  I did not answer his texts and I turned my phone off that night.  On Friday, he texted he couldn't come to work - I responded ok and left it at that.  He called at 6 and left me a message that he didn't eat for two days.  I didn't respond.  At 7:30, he came to the office - I was still working and he was super mad that I didn't answer his calls.  I really didn't respond to him - other than to say that I was sorry he was feeling bad.  He started to push my buttons - telling me that i didn't care and that he was going to find someone who does care.  He kept pushing and pushing and I finally said -why are you doing this - why can't we have a normal life.  That infuriated him and he left.  45 minutes later, he came back to the office with take out food and said that if I couldn't take care of him, he would have to take care of himself.  He asked me to eat dinner with him - I did but we barely spoke.  We went home to our separate houses that night. 

The next day, he was completely back to "normal" and apologized for his behavior.  We talked about it over the weekend - he said he can't stand that he can't control himself.  He said that he appreciates that I don't hold a grudge and that I support him working through this. He is very self aware and it seems like he hates this cycle as much as I do but he is powerless to stop it.  He said that when I asked him why we can't have a normal life, something snapped in his head.  He said he wants a normal life as much as I do.  The part that I found interesting on Saturday was that he was so bored in bed, he got up and did a bunch of fix-it projects around the house.  He heated up a frozen pizza - made himself some soup.  He was very nonchalant about telling me the things he fixed - he said he was mentally sick but he couldn't just lay there in bed anymore.  I drove by his house on the way home from work earlier than he expected me to (we live on the same street but in different houses for our kids sake) and the lights were on.  Later, when I went to pick up my kid from a school activity, the entire house was dark.  He knew that I would drive by at that time and I am sure he turned the lights off to make me think he was in bed the entire time. The entire thing seems so calculated to me. 

With all that being said, he is back in bed now.  I got the "I'm sick" call and that he can't eat.  I do not want to make this worse.  Is this an extinction burst - anyone have any ideas how this passes?  Do I just keep doing what I am doing?  I want this cycle to end.  It is exhausting.  Work has been super busy and he has barely been around to help.  We even talked about it this morning - he went to his therapist and they reviewed his file - the therapist told him he has made some really good progress this year. He said at lunchtime he can feel himself on the edge and that there was a 50/50 chance that they day would go bad.    I guess I lose track of the overall progress because the day to day can be so draining.  I  don't want to keep this cycle going - but I do feel very powerless to do anything about it.

He *may* have had enough of work by Wednesday - I certainly have! But i guess any cycle that gets him attention will probably keep going. It's good you identify that you probably enabled him in the past.

I'm not sure that completly ignoring him is the way to go, but I havn't had to deal with this. I would think that when he first txts you saying he is sick/going home/to bed that you respond with kinds words "sorry to hear that - hope you get better soon", perhaps even telling him something he can look forwrd to "tell me when you are better so i can come over" or "hope you will be OK by our date Thu night" - then don't answer any more calls/txt.

He'll probably keep going for a while before he realises that he's not getting any attention and stops. 

This is a good example of how you changing your behavior helps him change his.

People with BPD tend to feel that they aren't capable, and even actively look for proof from that they are incapable. And yet get angry when we don't treat them like they are.

He will probably feel better when you help him see he is capable. He may not thank you, exactly   :)

One thing that might help is to ask validating questions (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.msg12586025#msg12586025). When he says he hasn't eaten for two days, you could answer, "How did you stand that?" Accept and acknowledge his thought/feeling/action, and then gently turn the focus on what he did to abide it, or fix it, or what thoughts he has going forward about his situation.

Or, something else that can be helpful is to shape positive behavior by pointing it out when it happens. "Good that  you got something to eat when you were hungry, that's taking good care of yourself."

LnL's suggestions sound good to me :)

When he's telling you he won't eat, he's trying to get you to respond, give him attention, and if you do, you are teaching him that it works. Whether the attention 'good' or 'bad' it still works for him. Trying to bring him food (which he will likely reject), or trying to "make" him take good care of himself teaches him that this strategy "works", and you will see more of it.

Turning your phone off helped you. You might try "muting" him both for calls and texts until the next day when he does this when you get the first "I'm sick, I can't eat, I'm going to bed" call. That way you don't have to be out of communication with the rest of the world if you don't want to.

Upon getting that first call I might even say something like "Since you need your rest, I won't keep you from it tonight. Have a good night."   

Thanks so much for all the suggestions. I really appreciate it.

I got the 11am call that he is sick - I said I am sorry to hear that - I hope you feel better.  He said - what do you care and he hung up.  I really felt like calling him back but I didn't.  I know that would have escalated the cycle.

He came to the office at 3pm.  He told me he hates his life - he is trapped and depressed.  He didn't eat last night and can not eat today.  He made a few comments about having chest pain all day and all night yesterday.  I didn't say anything and I didn't offer him food.  I said that he isn't trapped - we have two choices - we can work together to try to figure things out or we can decide not to be together.   Neither one of us is trapped.  He said give it time - he will turn off all his emotions and go through life with me being depressed.  I said that won't work for me.  He made some comment about how he does everything for everyone and it was all I could do to bite my tongue.  That is so far from the truth - it made my head spin.  He got mad - said that I am the most cold hearted person he ever met.  I said he has to stop running to bed.  That isn't working and I went back to my office.  He got up and left without saying a word. 

I know that my past behaviors of babying him - getting him food that he refuses to eat - trying to "fix" an unfixable situation made this worse.  I keep a calendar of his moods - I started it last year, mostly to keep perspective.  I tended to downplay his bad days or maybe I just blocked them out and I wanted to know if we had more good than bad.  Every Thursday (except 2) for September and October, he has had bad days.  It almost always continues into Friday.

I feel like I am coming to a point in my life where I have some hard choices to make.  I am overworked - I handle the work for both of us.  I take care of our homes - I take care of the kids (two are in college and only one is home with me now) Our business is very successful but I know I can not maintain this schedule forever.  His promises to help and work more never happen.   His bad days are a distraction and a drain. Over the past 4 years that I have known about BPD, I do feel like I have made some changes to improve things but there is always something new that comes up.  I have always felt committed to staying for many reasons - I know at first I was committed to staying out of fear that our business would fail if I left - I stayed out of fear that I couldn't run the business by myself.   He has said to me many times in the past that he loves me so much that he will leave me to save me.  I don't know if I believe him anymore.  I guess I feel like I don't know what to believe.  I stay because I love him and as foolish as this sounds, I always hope things will get better.   I think I need to accept that it wont get better.  This is what it is. 

Sorry this is rambly and sort of off topic.  I want this cycle to pass.  But I do know that even when it does, there will be something else I will need to deal with.

He started calling me a few minutes ago.  I ignored 10 calls and I picked up the 11th.  I am so mad at myself.  I should not have answered. 

He is furious - he is done with me - he hasn't eaten - he is going to move on with his life.   I have heard this on a weekly basis for what feels like forever.  He is constantly ending it.  He is constantly threatening to go back to his ex wife.  I don't make him dinners - I don't care about him - gosh, it never changes. 

I was calm.  I said I am tired of him pushing me away on a weekly basis and going to bed.  That he has to change this.  He went off about not eating again and I didn't say a word.  He ranted for a few minutes more about it being over and hung up on me.   I shouldn't have answered the call.  I know better. 

I am mad now - I am mad at him and I am mad at myself.  It is hard to let it go all the time - it gets hard to wait for it to pass all the time.  I don't know if I am being unreasonable in my expectations.  I don't know anymore.

I'd suggest start with easier choices instead of harder ones.

You're taking a new approach to his dysfunctional cycle of being sick / not eating / making himself sick.

Give it a few more weeks. He will realize that this crap doesn't work to manipulate you, and you will start to believe in your heart that it really isn't going to harm you, and you don't need to be afraid of it. (More like "Here we go again... ." the way you would be about hitting the same traffic jam on the way to work that you hit 3~5 days a week.)

The other thing you can do is stop taking care of his home and his other needs. You are getting burnt out by doing too much; That will lighten your load a little too.

... .

If you and he find a new equilibrium like that after a month or two [several weekly cycles], it would be a better time to re-evaluate the shared business.

Or if you spend a few months working on it and fail to make progress, again, it will be a good time to re-evaluate too.

Cross-posted with this... .


Please, be gentle with yourself. It is a hard lesson for you to learn. You are getting better, and will continue to get better. A couple weeks ago, you wouldn't have held out for 10 calls.

You can do better next week.

It is OK that you aren't perfect yet. 

Be kind to youself - every new skill takes time to master!

Be careful about this. You are telling him how to behave. A better approach is to tell him how YOU will behave, based on his actions.

• "Every week when you go to bed you are pushing me away. *I* feel like we are not a team, and are not connected. So from now one, whenever you do that *I* will not be answering your calls or texts".
• "Every week when you go to bed you are pushing me away. It makes me feel like we are not connected. So from now one, I choose to only engage with you when you are feeling healthy".

These statements do not ask/tell him to do anything. They simply tell him how YOU will behave. These are YOUR boundaries. Perhaps he will change his behaviour, perhaps he won't. It doesn't matter. If you tell him how to behave, you are giving him the power. By telling him how YOU will behave - YOU hold the power.

 |iiii  Yes.

And showing him that you will behave that way consistently is more important than telling him. Generally, the more times it comes up, the less you need to say about it or will want to speak about it.

Thank you so much for the suggestions and for being here for me.  During times like this, I feel so alone.  This forum is a lifeline for me.

Today went downhill very fast.  He called this am - I answered - he asked me a question which I answered and he hung up on me.  He came in at 2pm.  He went on to tell me how "sick" he is and how much he hates his life.  He doesn't want to be with me anymore - I make him miserable but he is trapped by our business and our personal relationship. He was furious that I didn't check on him Wednesday night or Thursday night.  He said he can't live like this anymore.   I did not say much at all.  I tried to validate but he was too far gone.  He started to go off on how he thinks I am a bad parent - how I spoil my kids and how he can't do anything about it.  I bit my tongue - asked if there was anything else he wanted to talk about - he said no and I went into my office.  I started to work and he came in a couple of times to tell me how he has made himself sick by not eating.  I mentioned that there is food at his house - he could eat whatever he wants. Of course, that set him off.  He said I have made his life completely miserable - he fakes any time that he ever seems happy - that he doesn't want to be in a relationship at all with me.  I got up and went to the bathroom.   I stated in there for about 10-15 minutes - I did not want to talk to him...   He started to get more and more agitated - he was looking for things to fight with me about.  He kept working himself up - coming into my office to go off and I kept walking away.  After a while, he went to the kitchen and saw the lunch I ordered - he said that of course I am taking care of myself by getting food that I don't care about anyone but myself.  He called me a F****** B**** and left.  When he is in a good place, he tells me that he puts me into these no win situations - he tells me there is nothing I can do.  Even though I know all this, it still hurt today. 

Today, it feels like I made things a thousand times worse - and his words stung.  He pushed all my buttons.  I know how this works.  I have been through days like today more times than I can remember.  I am hurt and tired.  I feel like I somehow reward this behavior and have done that for years.  I  I know I need to focus on me.  I feel so deeply stuck right now. 

That's a difficult (as in likely to fail!) and advanced time to validate... .when he's already spooled up most of the way into a dysregulation. I'm not sure I'd even bother with that.

Validation works best if you just keep your mind open looking for opportunities, especially when he's NOT upset... .or perhaps when he's mildly upset/hurt/distressed/frustrated by something that is completely unrelated to you. (and is NOT trying to blame you for it    )

It isn't so much that it calms him down immediately... .it just generally lowers the temperature/pressure.

... .when he is upset now, and especially when he's trying to blame you / attack you / etc., I think the best tool is boundary enforcement, not validation. Remove yourself from the conversation. Say goodbye and hangup. Leave his office. Ask him to leave your office. Whatever fits the situation. And do it sooner, not later. I think you know this... .keep working on it; you can get better and more consistent about it.

---

You might want to try a new boundary to enforce. Here's what I'm thinking.

Most of these arguments and abuse starts around him not eating, or yelling at you for not providing food / not caring that he's sick because he won't eat.

Doesn't seem worth it.

Stop eating with him, and stop discussing what he is or isn't eating. And tell him that you are DONE. That you won't eat with him, and you won't talk with him about what he is or isn't eating.

I doubt this will help you if you try to do it just on "bad days" and relax it on "good days". I'd plan on trying it for a month or more. What do you think?

But ... .My sense is that eating is just a randomly selected venue/topic for this behavior, and if CWF eliminates eating as the forum through which he seeks control, there will be another.

You are his whipping post, reliably there when he needs something to whip.  This will only change when you decide to not be his whipping post anymore.

I agree with GK, validation won't work here and if anything it will fuel the fire IMO.  Boundaries is what you need as GK pointed out.  The first boundary I would put in place is respect.  He either treats you with respect or you cannot interact with him, at all.  This doesn't mean just sitting there letting him unload on you either because IMO that is enabling him.  It means literally removing yourself (the whipping post) physically so he doesn't have anything to whip.   :)

This is trigger, it is both a direct criticism and controlling demand. He doesn't have to change anything, only thing you can change is your interaction with it.

As far as the cyclical behavior goes, best to acknowledge your hear him, as opposed to ignore him. Then do nothing about it. It keeps you emotions out of it and reduces your stress. Ignoring people is also a stresser too as it takes willpower and energy

Going to bed as an avoidance coping tool is something my wife does almost daily, the "sickie" is just a way of attaching a physical excuse to an emotional reaction. Do not engage in the physical excuses as they are just red herrings, and potential channels for projection if you connect.

Thank you all for responding and providing me with some much needed insight.  I know my own emotional needs lead me to dealing with these episodes in a way that makes things worse.  The insights and support provided have really got me thinking about my role in this cycle.

I am going to try and acknowledge that I hear him but do nothing.  That tends to be a problem area for me due to feeling like I need to "fix" a situation that is not fixable.  It makes sense that going to bed allows him to avoid feeling what he is feeling.  I know that P&C is correct in thinking that once we move past the refusing to eat, he will find other ways to try and control the situation. 

On Saturday, the episode had passed.  He called me a number of times but I didn't have my phone with me and I didn't get the calls until later that day.  I called him back - he apologized and asked me to come over and talk.  He apologized for lashing out at me - for the horrible things he said.  I always accept his apology in hopes that we can move forward. 

This makes you human  :)

I know that my BPD loved one has taught me to be very dedicated in my self-care, not only because it is the loving thing to do for myself, but because it also means I can bring my A game when dealing with my loved ones.

Well, he wants to be soothed like an infant by his mother.  I do not mean this as a snarky comment, I mean it in a literal sense; as to what his expectations are.  He may not have verbalized his needs to you (and himself) nor his expectations from you in such a clear manner.  His pain emanates from a central core place that is so primeval and fundamentally embedded in the core of his psyche that you can do anything and everything for him and this core wound would still not heal.  Only he has the power to do so with not just an acknowledgment and apology that he behaved badly but also with the logical next step... .as to rigorously pursuing DBT therapy. 

Sadly, if you research and offer him solutions, it would be controlling and then your role in his mind would change from an imperfect nurturer to a persecutor.

We are all here to assist you in this journey.  This is a process--it is not as though there is a magical bullet.  Your intuition will direct you as to what we say is pertinent, relevant to your situation and helpful and what is not... .do follow that little voice inside you.  It will guide you in the right direction.

In all this swirling chaos... .self care and care of your children is a must.  That is something you cannot afford to lose sight of.  A child like adult needs to take a second seat to a child... .and a care giver must replenish her/his own self or else the well will run dry.  This is not selfishness, self centeredness, heartlessness, lack of empathy ... .it is simply an acknowledgment of human limitations. 

This may be true, but the longer he is allowed to fixate on an issue the more he consolidates his view that it is a valid issue, and ultimately the harder it is not to take it on board. The more the issues shift the easier it is to accept that it is behavior based rather than issue based.

If you chip away at a wall with an ice pick on the same spot continuously eventually it will break through, a personal boundary is the same.

I really appreciate the insight everyone has provided me.  This is a journey - it has been a long journey since I discovered bpdfamily in September 2012. 

Pallavirajsinghani - thank you for your comments  - it makes perfect sense to me and that is actually how it feels sometimes.  His pain comes from such a deep place inside him.  He has been going to therapy for years and continues to go every other week.  I do not know if he is working on DBT - I don't ask any questions about therapy at all.  He does talk about it from time to time but only in a passing reference to something.   He has mentioned a number of times that his therapist wants him to talk more about his past which does cause him great pain when he does.  I think that his therapist may have been pushing him the last few months.  I really don't know. 

I have a hard time trusting myself when it comes to dealing with his bad episodes.  I have been thinking quite a bit about that.  Today is Wednesday  and Wednesday afternoons have been the start to the cycle for the past month or so.  I have decided that if he goes off this week, I am going to acknowledge him and then just go about my business.  I am going to do my best to not get caught up in the drama. 

Well, we had 7 "good" days - normal days - seemingly happy days.  We worked - spent time together - socialized with friends Saturday night.  We enjoyed our days. 

Yesterday, we were having coffee - talking about our plans for yard work for the day.  He was telling me how happy I make him - how much he likes being with me - doing things with me.  His ex wife called.  He went upstairs and was on the phone with her for an hour.  When he came back down, he apologized for being on the phone so long.  I asked if everything is ok with her - he said same old thing - she is fine.  I started to make breakfast - and within 15 minutes, I was taking too long - he couldn't eat and went to bed. 

I went upstairs - I said I was sorry he isn't feeling well and I left.  I spent the day at my house -doing yard work, cleaning and errands.  At 9:30, he called - which is always the times he calls if I don't show up earlier.  I was asleep and didn't see the call this am. 

I called him this morning to say I was sorry I missed his call.  He said he is sick and tired of his life.  That I had promised to make changes to help him and that I am a liar and I never do anything I say.  It was really hard for me not to take the bait - I wanted to defend myself.  He said that he can't believe i did it again - I let him stay in bed all day.  I said to him that I am sorry he isn't feeling well and let me know if there is anything i could do.  He went off that I have done enough damage to his life - that I am full of empty promises and he is unhappy.  He said he spent the night thinking about suicide since he is so miserable and nothing ever gets better.  I listened - feeling sick to my stomach about the whole thing and he hung up.

He came into the office about an hour ago - apparently to fight with me.  He came into my office - repeated all the things he said this am.  I literally did not say one word.  I got up after 5 minutes and I went to the bathroom.  When I got back to my desk, he walked in and said he is done for the day and will not be in the rest of the week and left.

Honestly, I am doing my best to let the words go.  To not take personally all the awful things he says.  I am doing my best to not make the situation worse - to stay away from him so he doesn't dump on me.  Part of me wonders if I reward his bad behavior, when the episode passes, I accept his apology and try to put it behind me.  It never leaves my mind.  It happens too often to ever leave my mind. 

Last week, he said I am good for him since I don't take his sh**.  I was surprised to hear that because I feel like all I ever do is take it.  Part of me does still try to make sense of the nonsense.  I know that is not helping me at all.  I feel unsettled and that he is wearing me down.  I feel like I just don't know what to do anymore.  Is there something I should be doing?  Is this just my life and I need to accept it? 

Stay strong! Living with a BPD is difficult, but as you learn things get easier... .

It's good that you "don't take the bait" and that you respond with empathy. That will help. But the third crucial part of SET is the T part - Truth. So responding with empathy ("Sorry you aren't feeling well" and Support ("let me know if there is anything I can do" is great - where is the truth? For this particular incident, I would add something like "It's not my job to wake you up. You are a capable person - I know you can set yourself an alarm." (Take the opportunity to make it positive if you can - remind him he is capable).

It is great that you can take care of yourself - walking away without biting back takes a lot of strength. However, walking away without any words can also be invalidating and trigger his abandonment feelings. It would be better if you could say something supportive (to make him feel heard), then explain why you are leaving ("I need to clear my head - I'll be back in a few minutes". I think that will help soothe him again.

But really - you are progressing well and I don't want to discredit you - what I am suggesting is the "next step".

I think they will continue to "dump on you" until they feel heard. It's strange - it's like they have this big rock of emotional burden they carry around with them. They cannot put it down (they cannot process it). So they seek to pass it on to someone else. They  talk to you to try to pass it on, but it will only pass if they FEEL heard. And once you are carrying their rock you need to choose whether to keep carrying the rock yourself, or to drop it.

I wonder if validating questions (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.msg12586025#msg12586025) might work better when he tries to saddle you with work that only he can truly do, like getting out of bed 

There is a double bind dynamic with a lot of BPD sufferers, where there is a crushing sense of inadequacy and a desperate need to feel adequate. Validating questions can be a way to straddle that double bind. They help acknowledge that sense of inadequacy while expressing faith in their ability to take necessary steps. And relieve you of the burden to solve things for them.

This is actually the hardest part, in my experience. I have to fight the urge to just fix it or solve it, and center myself. Let the feelings of wanting to control the outcome go and give my BPD loved one the space to experience adequacy.

I found I have to ramp up boundaries with repetitive behaviors. Otherwise behaving badly, followed by a short period of disengagement, then swept under the carpet, simply absolves and refreshes them, it doesn't break the cycle.

I think having a relationship with someone you also work with ultimately is disempowering you. Not turning up for work is a payback control tactic, and not only simply about his inability to face the day.

Thank you for the responses - it helps to have insight - I am too deep in the situation. 

I am going to work on adding T - truth to the SET that i have been doing.  I didn't realize that I was I was doing when I was responding to him. 

How do I ramp up my boundaries?   I know that what I am doing know is continuing the cycle and it is really bringing me down.   I do feel like his refusal to work - refusal to eat is his attempt at control.  I am struggling with what my boundaries are in regards to work.  I know I have boundaries with being raged at.  I am feeling very lost lately.  I daily fight the urge to fix problems.  I am trying to stay strong but I am feeling down. 

You can't make him eat.

You don't have to watch him refuse.
You don't have to accept the blame for him not eating.
You can refuse to participate in any circular arguments about not eating.

If you are feeling compassionate, you can validate how unpleasant his experience (not eating) is... .and not bother telling him that he is making the choice to be miserable--you've already said it a thousand times, the thousand-and-first time won't have magic results.

And if you are feeling exhausted, frustrated, and lost, chances are you won't be able to validate sincerely, so just take space away from him.

Substitute "sleep" and "work" for "eat" and read it again.

In your shoes, I would expand your boundaries. Continue removing yourself from his rages. Also remove yourself from this crap where he tries to project guilt onto you for his choice not to take care of himself.

It is clearly tearing you apart.  Protect yourself from it.

You are right, GK - it is tearing me apart. 

He called this am.  I put a wineglass in the wrong spot in the cupboard.  It fell and shattered.  He went off in a rage like I haven't heard in a while.  The call only lasted a few minutes but I feel like I was kicked in the gut.   I made a mistake - I put the glass in the wrong spot.  I offered to come over and wash the floor - help him clean up but that only agitated him more.  He was horrible.

I feel like I can't think clearly about our life together.  I am having such a hard time staying strong - letting things go.  I feel like I completely lost my focus and myself lately.  It is like we clear one hurdle - I get a break and another comes up in its place.  He is idealizing his life with his ex wife - he tells me he is thinking about reconnecting with her.  He knows how to hurt me and he doesn't hesitate to do that.

I need to define my boundaries - I need to expand them.  I am having a hard time protecting myself.

It wasn't about the wine glass, that is just a vehicle to express his emotions. You offering to "fix" the described problem is taking away his voice rather than soothing the emotion.

Failure to express emotions in a healthy way makes it hard to soothe them, that is not your obligation. If you can't do it then staying out of it is the best option.

Recognizing these side issues and not even engaging in the first place is a good start, as you have found it only makes it worse and gives times for your own emotions to take on damage.

"I dont want to speak to someone who is using that tone of voice" and hanging up, is ramping up the boundaries. If the "S & E" is not being received then dont use it, and you will not even have a chance of "T" being heard. It simply becomes a waste of energy

The aim here is not soothing him, it is soothing you.

thank you for posting this - i think you are doing an amazing job of dealing with it. my BPD partner does this too - it is an incredible relief to see you putting it in words, as i find the behaviour so overwhelming, it's hard to describe it accurately. when i see my partner in that kind of inner pain, my immediate "natural" response is to try and soothe him. seeing someone you love in that much pain just hurts, right? it makes immediate empathy kick in and it sure does make you want to take action to "fix" the situation asap. i had been finding the unfixability of the massive pain so painful (before i knew it was BPD). now i know i have to train myself to deal with it. the dynamic barely makes sense to me. if someone is in massive pain and they "reach out" asking you to help soothe them - that makes sense to me. but the "you're doing everything wrong, you're terrible at soothing pain, you're the worst partner ever" thing - i just don't "get" that dynamic. why - if you are in pain - would you want to add more pain to it? is it about wanting to stay in the victim role? is my partner saying to me "owww, look, i'm a victim, see how hurt i am". and me trying to help him/ soothe him means i'm kinda trying to "take away" his victim role? am i trying to "make it better" too soon? does he need to wallow in the victim role and truly feel it? is he re-living situations from his childhood? does he secretly need the validation that he truly was a victim in his childhood and that it was so bad, that these feelings are still coming up many decades later? this stuff started in our relationship six months ago. at first, i thought i was going nuts. then i thought he was nuts. . i think you are doing an amazing job of dealing with this. i am in awe of how calm you manage to stay. i hope you find some self-soothing things to help you.

Black and white nature means someone always has to be responsible. A pwBPD struggles to take responsibility for things that are bad in their life. There is too much it overloads. As a result they project the blame onto someone else. As you are the one most likely to catch it they repeatedly pass it to you.

Yes it is effectively biting the hand that feeds them, but their lack of "connectivity", means they dont accept that consequence, and if there is one,then thats not their fault either.

. huh.  . thank you for trying to explain it to me : ). it still doesn't quite make sense to me. even the traumatised rescue/ stray dogs i work with know that sometimes stuff just happens without anyone doing anything (eg it rains) or that sometimes stuff happens inadvertently/ you didn't mean it (accidentally stepping on their paw but immediately making a big "awwww sorry!" fuss and theatrically checking their paw is okay and making a game out of the feeling of relief that no-one tried to hurt them on purpose). i guess most of the time, my partner knows that too. i guess he only gets into that weird intense-inner-pain-and-i-don't-wanna-be-soothed pattern occasionally? i have spoken to him about these episodes a few days later, once he's calmed down. i've told him that what he says and how he behaves during those episodes makes me feel like he HATES me. he's looked at me with an expression of genuine shock and puzzlement asking why on earth i would think that? and said that during those episodes, the only thing he hates is himself. i believe him, but it's hard to remember that while he behaves in a way that seems incredibly convincingly "hateful" during those episodes. sigh. just as C&F has been saying, it's like a spiral of pain... not only is the BPD person in the intense intial pain of what's hurting them. but every attempt to soothe them, which fails, adds another level of pain (and there can be 10 or 20 of these layers added). plus, if the non-BPD partner looses their patience and yells or says unhelpful stuff, there's the added pain of that stuff happening too. i wonder what makes them "snap out of it" eventually? eventually they do become functional again and can even apologise for having behaved poorly, so there is some self-awareness about this particular pattern. i guess the word "overload" is key here. this is a pattern they themselves can no longer control. they are in overload and their emotion is going to spiral to its extreme, before it can dissipate. (is this what an extinction burst is? is there a link in the resource section to explain extinction bursts and how to deal with them? thanks!).

Figuring out what you are responsible for will give you a lot more peace. Start with the assumption that his words about this are completely wrong, and not even worth listening to for that reason.

You did make a mistake, putting a wine glass in the wrong place. That is a small lapse in judgement, or perhaps even ignorance, if you didn't remember where it was supposed to go.

"It fell and shattered." I'm assuming you mean that he bumped it or knocked it off, and then it fell. If it had happened immediately when you put it away, he wouldn't have had to call you to tell you. So he did something clumsy, even if it wasn't where he expected to find the glass.

He probably gets just as much blame as you do... .but it still isn't a big thing. In a healthy household, a wineglass breaking is time to sweep it up, and avoid walking barefoot in the kitchen for a couple days, perhaps swearing for a minute while cleaning it, and then the problem is done and mostly forgotten.

What happened next? He raged at you. In other words, verbal abuse. That's not ok to do to anybody, even you! This is totally inappropriate, and totally out of line. And a 10X bigger problem than a broken wineglass.

Besides... .like waverider said, it never was about the wineglass anyways. He would have found a different reason excuse to lash out at you if that hadn't happened.

And your offer to go clean up was taking responsibility that wasn't yours, and didn't help anything.

Looking back at this, I'm sure you wish you hadn't put the wineglass in the wrong place. I hope you see how that ultimately didn't really matter. And ultimately, you cannot prevent these things--because he will manufacture them if he needs them.

Try to let him have these feelings--even if they are being furious at you for no good reason. Please remove yourself from them, so you don't experience the raging abuse, or even the more calmly spoken emotional abuse.

And please remember that they are his feelings, and you have no power to make them either show up or go away. When you think you are responsible for them is when you get yanked deeper into all kinds of crazy-making messes with him!

Yesterday, I was proactive in attempting to remove myself from being around him during his dysregulation.   My whereabouts are very predictable - he knows where to find me.  His behavior is also predictable.  With that, I decided to leave the office at 5:30 - my usual time isn't before 7:30.  As I was pulling out of the parking lot, I thought I saw his car pulling in.  For a minute, I thought about turning around but I decided to just head home as I had planned.  He started to call me around 7:30 - I didn't answer the call.  Around 8, he showed up at my house.  He was very upset that I went home without checking on him.  I said that he made it clear he did not want to see me and I wanted to give him some time to himself. He said it is obvious that I don't care about him and he has to find someone who will.  I said I do care but I do not want to fight with him.  He said he is done fighting - this relationship is making him miserable and he needs to make some changes.  He left pretty abruptly after that.  He called an hour later - said he is sick and miserable and he is going to talk to his therapist about getting checked into a facility to help him.  I said I am very sorry that he is feeling so bad - I want him to get the help he needs.  The conversation was pretty much a repeat of all others - he called me an enabler - said that i am bad for him - he is deeply unhappy and he can't live like this anymore.  He is alone in this world and he needs to move on in his life.  Honestly, the rest of the conversation was the same.  I did try to validate.  I listened to him.  He said he is not coming to work for the rest of the week.  I just said do what you need to do.  I was tired and I wanted the conversation to end.

The wineglass was just a means for him to lash out.  I know that.  I am trying very hard to not fall into my bad habit of trying to fix it - sooth things for him.  He is right.  I am an enabler. 

Hmmm - I have had the exact same conversation countless times - after he calms down, we talk about what happened and he has little to no recollection of how he lashed out.  My pwBPD makes me feel like he hates me - that I am the source of all his pain and unhappiness.  He has acknowledged he is the problem.  That I am simply collateral damage when he is dysregulated.  We go through periods of relative calm - I have known about BPD for 4 years - we have been together 7 almost 8 years.  He will "snap out" of it just as quickly as he snaps and is dysregulated.  He apologizes every single time.  He said he appreciates my support and acceptance of him more than I will ever know.  With that being said, it does take a toll on me.  Over the years, I have learned more about myself - I work hard at keeping myself together.  Our lives are very intertwined, we own a business together and we are personally involved.  When I learned about BPD, I made a commitment  to stay with him.  To learn as much as I could, to stop making things worse, to work on becoming a stronger person.  My strength is tested often and these past few months have worn me out. 

Thank you waverider and GK, your insight is invaluable.  I do see how ultimately, yesterday had nothing to do with a broken glass.  It is just a symptom of a bigger problem.  That problem is his.   I have to step back and recognize that I can not let myself continually get sucked into the crazy-making messes. 

This kind of thing happens a lot--he accuses you of hating him, not caring for him, etc. Sometimes when you enforce a boundary. Other times when he's just upset. I think it is one of the core things you aren't dealing with in a healthy way.


He is full of self-hatred, and thinks he's unlovable. (He may not admit it, but I'm sure it is true). He can't accept that you have feelings different than he does. So you must feel the same way about him that he does.

Therefore, if you tell him you do care about him, you are invalidating his feelings.

And you know how well THAT works. He just gets more riled up when he's invalidated, and lashes out harder.

So what options do you have other than arguing with him about what you really feel?

The really hard one is to validate his own feelings. It is pretty horrible to think that somebody close to him doesn't care about him. Both hard for you to say sincerely, and hard for him to hear and believe. Might be possible validate that he is angry or upset.

The not quite so hard one is to exit the conversation immediately, instead of taking the bait. (i.e. get better with boundaries)

And why does he bait you? Well, admitting that he hates himself is really hard to do. It is far easier for him to project that self-hatred onto you. ("You obviously don't care about me" and then since it is outside himself, attack you because you are the 'problem'. Now he doesn't have to deal with his own feelings anymore. IT WORKED! Yes, you just had a toxic fight with him, but the goal of avoiding his own feelings was successful.

It is a really sucky coping mechanism, but it is the best one he's got. And if you let yourself be part of it, it hurts both you and him. Stop playing this toxic game with him. He won't stop as long as you let it "work" for him.

so what does BPD self-hatred feel like and where does it come from? i understand having a crap day and feeling useless and having low-self esteem and feeling kinda despondent or depressed and having a sulk... but how does self-hatred work? (my theory on BPD is that as babies/ toddlers, people with BPD were not able to form that first deep bond to a carer (possibly because their carer had a personality disorder themselves and refused to bond with the infant) hence leading to an un-bonded child, who develops into a pwBPD). does this kind of thing lead to self-hate in the pwBPD ? i guess if a carer is refusing to bond with an infant, it's signalling to the infant that the carer a) thinks the infant doesn't exist/ isn't a human being worthy of contact/ bonding  or b) dislikes the infant and chooses to not bond due to the dislike. either is fundamentally threatening to the infant's existance, because in an evolutionary sense only infants with caring carers will survive. not being bonded is literally life-threatening and hence will cause massive, deep stress with life-long scars. is this kind of stuff what is meant by self-hatred? that the pwBPD will carry this unresolved pattern around with them later? that they will continue to reinforce the narrative that they are fundamentally unloveable (by anyone)? i guess in a young child that would cause a) distress/ deep pain but also b) (supressed) rage at the uncaring carer. so it would make sense to flip-flop back and forth between distress/ pain and rage later in life, when these traumatic experiences are re-triggered. would soothing touch be an option at this point? i know that when pain is deep, often words cannot reach the pain anymore. gently being held, or just a gentle back-rub, or squeezing the persons hand can work like magic, where words fail or increase the frustration. (of course, some people do NOT want to be touched when they are in emotional distress - so this would only work if it's someone who responds positively to touch). just as these deep non-bonding wounds were inflicted on infants in the pre-verbal phase, maybe by opting for soothing touch, that's getting closer to the pre-verbal depth of those painful feelings.

This sounds a lot like my GF. She is not capable of seeing her fault in anything in the moment. And she is the master at spinning any situation and making it someone else's fault.

I feel for you, I really do. It's so hard sometimes.

Extinction Burst: when Nons start changing our behaviours, by enforcing a new boundary, or not rewarding an old habit, the BPD will react. The action they have done for years that got a response every time no longer works - so they will ramp up that action and do it harder and more emotionally, getting stronger each time to TRY to make it work again. After trying for a while and seeing it doesn't work they will give it one last MASSIVE effort - pulling out all the tears, all the emotion, all the blame - until they realise it doesn't work. Then they will stop doing it.  That last effort is their Extinction Burst.

You deal with it like any other - stand your boundary, be strong, be consistent, and wait.

Here's the link to reinforce what AB posted: BPD BEHAVIORS: Extinction Bursts (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.msg847610#msg847610)

Another bad day even though  he did show up for work.  He asked me to review the status of a client - we did and he seemed motivated.  I left his office and got to work on other projects.   He asked me a few questions here and there - no big deal.  We had a normal seeming lunch - maybe a bit quieter than normal but he was making an effort to discuss daily work events. 

He came into my office a few minutes ago and started on having no one to help him with his project - I said I thought he had it under control and he flipped out.  He said that this project has been tormenting him for months and he can't believe I am making him do it.  I said nothing - walked back to my office and he stormed out.  He yelled as he was leaving - don't bother to come home for dinner - that he doesn't care what I do. 

So here I am - again, trying to let the day go.  Trying to stop focusing on what he has said to me this week.   

GK - you are completely correct.  This is one of the core issues that deal with.  I know that I have not been consistent in handling it - I get emotional - there are times I am tired and I just take the bait.  I will not answer 10 calls and then I break and pick up on the 11th. 

During his periods of self-awareness, he readily admits to hating himself.  He feels like he failed at everything he has done in his life and is quick to recognize that I have helped him more than anyone ever has.  He tells me that during his bad times, he hates himself - he never hates me - again, I am nothing more than collateral damage. 

When he is dysregulated - there is no way I can touch him at all - not a simple hand on his back - and he visibly flinches if he thinks I am going to touch him in any way.  In the past, I have tried to rub his back or hug him and he accuses me of patronizing him - that I don't care, I am just trying to pacify him. 

I have to stop participating in this with him.  I feel like it has gotten completely out of control.  He can't seem to reign himself in. He keeps pushing and pushing.  This started in early September and we have been dealing with it weekly.  He tells me he needs time to adjust  his thinking and I really am not sure what that means.  He keeps telling me that he needs stability and my life is too chaotic. The only thing that has changed is my daughter went to college which really has no impact on him at all. 

I have to stay strong and not participate at all - I have to keep my boundary strong that I will not accept his verbal abuse. 

I am going away this weekend - generally, when I go out of town, he does get incredibly stressed prior to my leaving.  I go out of town once every few months.  This time, I did invite him to come.  I knew there was no way he would go - but I did want him to know he was welcome.  I am so looking forward to a few days of distraction and time to myself.   I am hoping to take some time to try to sort myself out.   I know I spend way too much time focusing on his needs.  Blah - I am just sad and tired right now. 

I get why you just walk away, because you want to avoid the arguement, avoid the drama, but walking away would FEEL invalidating to him. He has told you he feels yuck, and he is emotionally immature and can't handle that feeling. He is lashing out because he feels all that yucky feeling. You walking away doesn't allow him to feel heard, and doesn't help him to deal with it.

Are you able to discuss his feelings? "I didn't realise you were struggling and feeling trapped with this project. That must feel horrible. I'm so sorry.". He'll vent some more. Be empathetic again, then ask "What can I do to help you?". This is SET (Sympathy, Empathy, Truth). If he is quite stuck, you need SE SE SET. Would you be able to talk more like this? To empathise with his feelings? When I started it felt like I was letting him "wallow" in his sadness - but suprisingly once they feel heard, the BPD is then often quite willing and able to move forwrards.

It's great you can identify this. Have you done anything to "prepare him" for it? Even a simple thing like giving him a small (personal) gift saying "I know you don't like when I go out of town. I don't like it either - I miss you! I want to give you this so that when you look at it you remember me."

You get torn down, and you lose your resolve. Try to do things that make it easier on yourself. For example after he's called 2-3 times, turn your phone off for the night, or at least "mute" him so you won't be tempted each time it rings after that.




I wouldn't call what happens to you to be collateral damage--he *IS* trying to hurt you, attack you, guilt you. He probably doesn't understand exactly why he is hurting you... .but he still is aiming for you, and ultimately knows it. [No point arguing it with him]

But other than that... .yes, he is pretty self-aware (when he's regulated).

One last thought for you... .please take good care of yourself, and please be mindful of your mental state. Not just for you, but for him too.

When you are getting frazzled, triggered, or exhausted, you aren't at your best. You are more likely to forget the tools or use them in a clumsy way. You lose compassion. Pay attention to your own moods.

Validation when you are in a bad state is pretty much a lost cause. Even if you manage to somehow say the right thing, your tone of voice won't be right. These are times when biting your tongue and NOT blurting out that snippy invalidating comment is a real victory on your part. At this time, the best thing you can do for either him or yourself is be ready to enforce a boundary and remove yourself.

I'm remembering times I tried not to run out the door and tried not to slam it and tried to say calmly (instead of shouting) "If I stay any longer, I will do or say something I'll regret later." I was always proud of myself for leaving that way. More so if I did it without a shout or a slam, but at least I was out before I did any more of the circular argument or whatever.

Have a good trip away from him. Be strong about phone calls.