BPDFamily.com

So she's been ugly all day. Had a pain clinic appt, she was wrong about it, said it was tomorrow, I said my calendar says its today. Then comes back and guess what, WHO WAS RIGHT? As you might gather, I didn't hear those words.

So I was already told not to come over tonight. So I offered to since her appt was today. NOPE.

So all day the messages have been ugly. All day I have been nice and not taking the bait. So tonight I finally said, I am going to have to take a break for me. I really want to say something to you, and it won't be heard, so I will just have to talk to you in the morning.

She was fussing about having to go to my parents house for thanksgiving, so I said, I release you from that obligation.

So now I am cut off again. Blocked on messenger. Blocked on hangouts. Probably turned off at cell company for texts because I dare drop off the face of the earth and not talk to her, or rather not be abused by her.

And uninviting her was an FU move. I didn't uninvite, I just said, if black friday shopping is so important, then I release from having to go with me.

All day I have been nothing but nice. Not even a snarky comment. And this is what she doesn't get. No matter what I do, the result is the same. So, why put forth a whole bunch of effort, when I get the same crap?

That's an excellent question.  Why do you?  Is this the kind of relationship you want?  Trust me, the drama can go on for years like this. 

Hi ,

Sounds like very BPD behaviour   !

Is she diagnosed BPD ?

When they are in that mind-set ,you can be as nice as you like , they generally won't give an inch , you are being put firmly in your place.  Give it a few days , it will pass,  till the next time.

Happy Thanksgiving Lockjaw,

Holidays, birthdays, and get togethers ALWAYS trigger my wife into some type of meltdown.

We once had 20 different family members modify times, dates and travel plans to accommodate my uBPDw part time work schedule (that she sets). Not anymore. If she doesn't want to go see my family she doesn't have to. Of course that means she get excluded and proves herself correct, in that nobody likes her. Adult child... .and been this way for a very long time. It doesn't get better, only colder and more resentful for next go around. More ammo to unload for next year or next holiday. At least when they rage, you know whats on their mind, but getting cut off and silent, tends to worry me a bit more.

Such a true statement... .

No she is not diagnosed. She won't go see a counselor, because they, in her words are more F'd up than the people they counsel.

In discussing some of my issues with her with my therapist, she asked the question if she was BPD and asked me to look at it online. When I did, lights and bells went off.

I told her she was one night when she made me really mad. Which was a mistake. It's on my permanent record.

The way my therapist explains it, only family and their "Neo" are the target of the BPD behavior. Most others don't see it or get subjected to it. All they see is she is outspoken. She says she has lots of friends, but... .I don't see that. Women don't seem to like her, and most guys, well they just want to hit it, if you know what I mean.

She has a sweet side, but good lord she can be a royal B. And I should say this, I am not the kind of guy who says things like that. If I say someone is a royal B, you can believe they are. I just don't use language like that.

Messenger back on. Apology for being ugly. I said I am sorry I lost time with you. To which she says, she wouldn't have had time to spend with me anyway. Well I guess that makes it ok then.  :check:

I sent her an email this am. I listed out all the things I had done for her at her house that I could remember in the last year, it was rather long, and pointed out, how much did your ex do in his 10 years there? And that I hadn't said anything ugly or snarky.

So now she wants to argue about my "releasing her" from having to go with me to my family's house for thanksgiving. It was an uninvite. No, it was me saying, hey I heard you say black friday shopping is your hobby, and its important to you, much like opening day of deer season is to me. So go if you want. It was a gesture of me being nice. You may not like the terms I used, but it was very clear, and not ugly.

She just wants to nitpick and argue. I presume this is projecting since she was so ugly to me, and feels guilty?

No, she just doesn't want to be seen to be the guilty party and that anything she did was ultimately justified and understandable. ie she may be able to admit overreacting, but it still has to be seen to be a reaction to some mistake of yours. Not completely unprovoked.

So really its my fault, even though its really hers?

It will always be someone at fault... .just not her.

Well it just gets better and better. I am at work, so she is mad I couldn't keep messaging her. And of course that is an all or nothing kind of thing. As in, ok I won't bother you anymore.

She was also mad because I stopped messaging her last night after I clearly said I needed to take a break for me, and I would talk to her the next day. This is what she hates about messaging/texting.

So do they need you at their beckon call too? I mean literally? It seems like that is an issue too.

Exactly so.  It's kind of amazing how perfect they are!

Tell me about it. I got more of the same after work. Snarky messages, then she called. I said I don't know, 7 or 8 times I needed to eat and wanted to get off the phone, and she just kept right on.

Her whole thing is "I said I was sorry", but then she just continues to act like a B. I finally said, you know, you told me many times how your ex would get drunk and cuss you out and call you all sorts of ugly names, and it didn't mean anything to you because he would just do it again. That's what you do to me. You apologize but the crap keeps coming.

The more I sit and think about it, the more it just pisses me off. I am doing nothing wrong, minding my own business in my own little world thinking everything is just fine, and she blows it up.

I should be going out to hunt this am. I set my clock, but I don't feel like it. Supposed to go to see my parents and get my kids thanksgiving, with her, I don't want to go. I will just have to hear more of her mess in the car, and the bad thing is I will be trapped.

I finally got mad last night and just cut her off. Said I didn't want to talk, that I was going to bed. She blew up my phones. Sent texts, messenger called me, left to come over and then turned around. I ended up sleeping in my son's room so I could have peace, and turned on my nest camera in case she lost her marbles and kicked in the door.

I know this is wrong, but I wish I could make her FEEL what I feel when she does her thing. I wish she could experience it. I told her last night I wished she could just tell me that I would always be wrong. I think I could deal with it if she did that. I think that would tell me she gets she is the problem.

All she does now is say she has to accept her punishment. I wish she could see its not punishment, its self preservation. It's me keeping myself from going completely dark, off the deep end, from wanting to strangle her, figuratively speaking.

I am so thankful for this board. If nothing else, just to be able to speak freely and be among people who understand what its like to be me.

Lockjaw,

You have written a lot about what she does, but can you switch your focus from what she is doing and tell us what you think that she is feeling?

From the sounds of it, if you can learn to stop taking it all so personally, because it isn't personal... .it isn't actually about you... .and learn to Listen with Empathy (https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy) and Don't be Invalidating (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating) to her, some of this (if not most of it) might stop.

When you were trying to be supportive of her and "released her from her obligation" so that she could go shopping, you said that she switched it to "uninviting" her. This likely triggered her insecurities about not being good enough or unlovable.

When she kept you on the phone when you wanted to get off to eat, did you acknowledge that she was telling you that she was missing you, or did you just tell her that you didn't want to talk? Again, this could have been a trigger to her.

And, her feeling punished, did you validate what she was telling you, or were you invalidating by JADE (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0)'ing?

I know that it's hard and frustrating trying to learning new ways to communicate with a pwBPD, but to make the relationship work, that's what it's going to take. The non is also involved in the discussions. The non cannot control the pwBPD, so the only thing that the non can do is control his/her part in the conversation.

She is feeling a lot.

She has a completely dysfunctional way of communicating this using often unfeeling toxic wording which is projection of her inner emotions

As a result you hear her words rather than her feelings.

As a result of this mishearing you react in a way which indicates you did not hear her emotions.

This she interpretes as not caring and being self interested.

She ups the anti and attacks you in any way she can think of as punishment. "See how you like it" mindset.

Its classic miscommunication creating escalation.

The more frustrated and depressed you get the less likely you are to turn this around as your energies become sapped.

Creating space for yourself, not taking it personally (hard), not being distracted by the specifics of her choice of words or accusations. Asking questions rather trying to resolve. Do those things you like, even if you feel unmotivated to initiate them, as what you need is respite and a little refreshment in your life.

Spent too long in the pit and you forget what sunshine looks like and you loose the resolve to climb out. You become the entrenched victim and see persecution in everything, and everything seems pointless. Do not underestimate the risk of depression in nons dealing with a BPD relationship.

Just a posting tip, after every vent try to finish on a positive suggestion or humorous note. It works wonders, its like the "fluffy dog" story at the end of the daily news bulletin.

Or, she wants what she wants, is used to getting her way and isn't really able to handle a grown up relationship because her emotional needs are so great there is no room for anyone else's needs.
  I do understand and pity my ex... .I just don't want to live my life in a war zone not getting my needs met and feeling emotionally drained.  And that's ok.  I tried for 19 years, but it just got worse.  That wasn't a marriage and I didn't sign up to adopt him.

You know what? It frustrates me to no end that there is all this talk about how THEY feel? What about us?

How do I FEEL to have someone on my azz about everything that bothers them? How do I feel to have a number 1 criticizer, not a number 1 encourager? How do I feel that I can't even got more than about a week before another argument starts?

I am a nice man. I don't want to argue and fight about things. I don't want to be on someone's case about every little thing they do that bothers me. I let it go, life is to short. I mean if its going to piss me off a month from now, then I will bring it up, pretty much anything else, I let it go. What's the point? Especially with her.

I asked her for 2 things. To be my number 1 encourager, and to tone it down with the opinions. That's it.

With me, even if I am mad as a hornet, you can ask me if I am being rude, ugly, inconsiderate, a jack wagon, whatever, I will admit it. Her? NOPE! Forget it.

When she is wrong, which is often, and she finally manages an apology, what happens after? I still get to hear her justify, defend, and all the other mess she does over what she was wrong about and apologized for, for days after. But, if she apologizes and I say anything about what she did, OH NO, I APOLOGIZED, ITS OFF LIMITS!

If she doesn't like something I do, even if its something so stupid and dumb, 99.99 percent of the population would let it go, does she? NOPE! Oh no, she has to say.

I just came home in the middle of a date. Drove her back to her house, left my stuff in her car and came back to my house. She left and went to a movie or something alone.

I was inconsiderate about something I did, but she blew it out of proportion. I got the insults, the rude comments, and of course she won't let it go. So I just came home. I said we just got done with the whole thanksgiving thing, and you are on me about something again. Something that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

I have never tried so hard to make someone happy and failed so miserably in my life. I love her to death, but I hate her guts at the same time. I just want to feel good, I want someone to love me for me. Not watch for every little thing I do wrong so they can point it out.

If you don't want someone to leave you, you have this giant fear of abandonment, then why do you ride their case when you know its going to piss them off and make them leave?

I blew 50 bucks on dinner. I didn't go hunting this afternoon. I came back to go on a date with her. Because I have to ask her out still, even after a year and a half. She can't ask me, I have to ask her.

But to ask your question, for the most part, I don't justify what I do wrong. I do get angry because quite frankly I am sick of being run down for everything. I don't defend what I do, and I have quit explaining.

Here is what happened wednesday night. I told her I WANTED HER TO GO with me to see my family for thanksgiving, but, I didn't want to rehash our argument all the way over. From the minute I walked in her house, she was on me about everything. I just kept quiet. All the way over to the hotel, same. We went to eat, same. Come back to room, same. Finally I said, if you don't stop, I am going to go out and sit in my truck and sleep there. So she kept on. I was worn out. I had gone hunting that morning, gotten up at 330 AM. Its getting close to midnight, and she wanted to online shop at walmart for some TV's.

So she keeps on, so I got up out of bed, put on my shirt, shoes, and jacket and was heading out the door, when she stopped me. Hugs me, I just stand there. Don't say a word. Then she starts telling me she needs my help to order these tvs. I said, you have your phone and laptop, you order them. Oh no, we both had to. I said I am not ordering anything, I am not rewarding this behavior. So she didn't get to order her TV;s. That's on my permanent record, EVEN THOUGH, we stopped at a walmart on the way back and they had them in stock.

Even on the way over to my parents the next morning, she was still complaining. She said, I will just stay in motel. I said, then I will get the kids and we will all just go back.

My joy in life, my hobby is deer hunting. I can't go every weekend, I have custody of my kids. On my kid free weekends, I come back to go on date nights she blows up. I came back this morning, to take a nap, so I wouldn't be tired, so we could go eat where she wanted to go and watch a game on tv.

I don't even like to go hunt anymore. I just want to crawl into a hole and hide. I feel so worthless, and useless. I have lost nearly 20 more months of my life on a person who doesn't love me for who I am. She couldn't even admit tonight's issue wasn't a big thing. It was very minor. In fact, it wouldn't have even bothered me. I am not trying to dismiss it to make myself appear to be not at fault.

But it was just one thing after another. I am not a team player. I am a team of one. I am over reacting. Did I take my medicine today. I take 5 mg of lexapro for anxiety. I should take 10 to date her. If she doesn't like something, she is going to say something. She was just trying to have a conversation. This pisses her off.

I am sorry, I couldn't help it, when she said that, I was like, there's a shock.     I just couldn't help it.

I hate feeling like a total failure. I hate it. 

Oh and I was to quiet at my family's house. It was at my sisters house, her hubs is dying, he has stage 4 colon cancer. I haven't seen him since he was diagnosed a year ago. So I was watching him, and quite frankly, I didn't know what to expect, I had been bashed by her for 3 days, so... .I just kind of didn't say a whole lot, which isn't unusual when I am around them. I just kind of listen.

He's been good to me, and good to my kids. But I wasn't all on top of her in front of my family. So... .again, just one of the many things I do wrong.

I even heard about that yesterday again, after I explained to her, you know, that is my BIL, he is dying, my niece and nephew who I love to death and love my kids to death have to watch this. He feels like crap, and I had no idea what to expect when I walked in there. I said I made myself stay toned down. Not that its hard, I am introverted. I finally said, can you just let some of this go? Please?

Oh and we got this deal at dinner, buy a gift card and then we would get some promotional discounts to use. So I bought it, she hands it to me and tells me to use it to take some hoochie out. That is not my style. I don't do things like that.

But just one of those comments I get.

I hate my life. I really do.

Lockjaw

I feel for you... .really do.  Mine is fond of the blocking/cutting off silent treatment.  Gets mad about god knows what... .takes it out on me... .makes me out to be the bad guy... .then when I ask why... .tells me how awful I am and blocks me.  I am amused now when she tells me how childish I am.  Every flaw she claims I have are simply projections of her own short commings. 

Dear Lockjaw,
   They don't have it to give.  That is all.  It is frustrating because they seem to at first, but that goes away quickly... .a mirage.  These poor people don't have a solid core and are unlikely to develop one.  This started when they were very, very young.  They need a mommy very badly.  They spend most if their time frightened and lost and it comes out as evil hostility.  If you want a true marriage or partnership, you cannot get it with a person with BPD any more than you could get water from a dry well. 
  People who stay in relationships with BPD sufferers must be willing to accept this.  Like you would if she were your child.  It is what it is.  And it is incredibly sad for both people.

She knows she does it to me. She will buy me something to make up for it. But its just stuff. I want someone who gives me the emotional I want too.

This is my life. This is what I attract and what I am attracted to. I bust my butt to give, and give and give, and do the things they want and need to be happy, and slowly it goes away. I end up empty and unfulfilled. They always do things for me, it is how it should be, two people doing things for each other. Then it ends up just me.

I heard last week how I am slacking. How I am not getting stuff done at her house. She says she knows my potential, and she is going to push me.

I told her last night, I just want 2 weeks of not getting fussed at. Just two. She just doesn't understand why I can't "communicate" like an adult. Why do I "run". Maybe its because she is never wrong. Maybe its because no matter what I say, its wrong, its not good enough, and because I get to get my chops busted for days after. But she says that is what I do. No that is me not letting her spin everything into her being right and me being wrong.

There are so many things we are the same about, and yet it is really these two things that just drive me insane. I hate feeling like a failure, and that is how I feel. And I hate that every little thing I do ends up being an argument, because she HAS TO say something.

I am not perfect. I am flawed, just like her, and I hardly ever say anything to her. I try to keep the peace.

I need to just cut her loose. I really do. I am probably so messed up now, no woman will want me. First one that says something about me doing something they don't like I will probably go nuclear. They will probably look at me and go, DUDE WTH?

lockjaw

I feel for you.  I found myself in the same situation, I do and do.  And yes she has good days and tells me ho great I am... .but in the end its never enough.  there is always some criticism to follow... .the bar raised once again. I am simply being set up to fail over and over

This is the "Black Hole", principle you can put everything in until you have nothing left to give and it will make no net difference. They do not like being a black hole, but they are trapped in it, for a while they can role play the shining star as that is what they want to be, but they dont have the inner self and faculties to maintain that role, but they try hard and hence can even be over the top "too shiny', but ultimately implode back in to the black hole mode as teh effort becomes too much

They can't help being a black hole, but with awareness you can learn not to pour everything you have into it.

Always ask yourself the question "Why do some people always seem to try too hard?", because they want to desperately be something they aren't.

Throwing "baubles" at people in a disguised attempt to impress is a common BPD trait.

This should be required reading for all Non's. Precise explanation of BPD relationship expectations.

I told her yesterday evening I just wanted to arrange a time for us to each get our things and go our separate ways. She didn't understand why I was saying that. I asked her point blank, are you happy right now? I said because I am not. I haven't been for quite some time, and I have said it in not so many words. She had trouble answering, she ended up saying, that I made her happy most of the time.

I told her that is what is so frustrating to me. There are so many things good about us, but there are these two issues, and I hate them. I said, I hate fighting. I hate it. If it was over something worth it, then that is one thing, but its always about something dumb. And I said I feel like I am always wrong. If there are things I do every week you don't like, then how can you be happy with me? I said do I say you do something I don't like once a week? Maybe I live in a fantasy world, but that is not two people who work well together if one is always doing something the other doesn't like.

She said just because I say that doesn't mean I am criticizing you. I said what is it then? Does it help? Does it make us better as a couple, or does it cause a fight? I told her I wanted the love like in Corinthians in the bible. I said I want to give it, and I want to receive it. Nothing.

So then she tells me that I am throwing away a quality person. That I won't find someone who loves me more. I said, how can you say that when I do all this stuff you don't like? She said I have been slacking for a while. I asked her if she had? She said she had. I said, I have too. You know why? Because I never win. I fail. I said i have never tried so hard to make something work, and fail. I hate it. I obsess about it. I said I have tried everything I know to make these go away. She says everything but the one thing I told you to do. Well her one thing isn't practical. I can't be in front of you holding your hand and tell you lovingly you hurt my feelings every time we have a disagreement. I am a single dad, I have 2 kids. I can't pretend we are all good until we can see each other.

She says all I see is the bad. I said the bad hits me in the face. I told her the other night at the motel, when she got angry while I was laying down in the bed that I was on edge because I felt like she was going to smack me. (Carryover from my dad as a child). She said why didn't you tell me? I said, what would it have done. She said, I could have held you and told you it was ok. I said, you were angry with me. Over nothing. Why would I think me telling you that would make a difference?

I asked her, why can't you just say you see my point? I said why don't I get a heartfelt apology? It's just like you recite something, it doesn't come across as genuine.

She says I am a team of one. I said a team doesn't mean that you get to tell me what i need to do all the time. She said no one listens to her anyway. I said, you know why, right? People need to be receptive to receiving advice you want to give. If they aren't, they won't hear it. I asked her what did I do when she asked me what I felt like she needed to do different with her son? I said I gave you my opinion, you disagreed with some of it, what did I do? Did I get mad? Did I say you weren't a team player? Or did I say, ok, and leave it alone? Why is it so important that I accept your opinion and act on it? No good answer for that.

She wanted me to come to her house, and I said no, so she asked if she could come to mine. I said what for? To cuddle? I said, what is the point? She said had I known last night would be the last night I was going to be with you, I would have wanted to spend it with you. So I said ok, but, I don't want to argue, and I am not having sex, since you keep throwing that in my face.

I didn't sleep well. She stayed plastered next to me. She is hurting, and it hurts me. She is so beautiful in my eyes. When she is tender and sweet, I am in heaven. When she gets in one of her moods, I am in hell. She said something about me making up my mind and that I would go find someone else. I said, the sad thing is I haven't heard you say anything, like you wanted me, and you wanted us to work, and you would make some changes.

I love her with all of my heart, but I hate fighting over dumb stuff all the time more. I said I need to feel like I win. If we could get into a rhythm of not fighting all the time, I could handle it, but as it stands, I never get to really get over the latest one before another one happens.

And I said to her, the sadest part of all of this is I cringe everytime you say something, because I never know if its going to start something and I have stopped saying much, because of the same reason.

The hardest thing for me though is she is the first person I have ever dated that I like to touch me. I would always get tired of the person, no matter how much I liked or loved them, and want space. I hate being away from her, but I hate fighting even more. It is the only thing that keeps me away. I told her I will come back from hunting to be with you. I have never done that for anyone. It's my one and only hobby now.

She thinks that is insulting. I should want to come back to be with her, not doing her a favor. I said its not a favor, its me willingly doing it because I want to be with you. There is significance to it, but she doesn't see it. So I just said I am sorry, what I meant to say I wasn't able to convey properly.

I wish she would go see someone with me. But she won't. And I will probably be so screwed up from this that any new person will get hammered the first time they tell me they don't like something I do. YAY!

This is my life. This is where I always end. Always. It's disheartening.

Bobcat:  Thank you.

Dear Lockjaw,
   This is really tearing you up.  Don't pay a full emotional price for words from someone who is broken.  Easy to say, very very hard to do.
    My experience is this:  you can get past the damage, you can heal.  You just cannot do it sitting on a fence.  Your inner self needs a real decision desperately.  With her, or moving on?  Stay or go?  If you stay, don't beat yourself up about it.  That is your decision to make.  Just don't make it without your eyes fully open.  You will never again be her shining knight.  That was the start-up relationship.  I don't care if you wait 30 years, it doesn't come back.  Sometimes there will be a day or two, and you start to hope.  But when you look at it later, you see she was romancing on the fumes of some other love. (Like at her sister's wedding, or her cousin's new baby where everyone else is all happy and sweet, she picks it up and projects it.)
     If you go, you need No Contact.  It is like an addict coming off drugs, but on the other side is peace, and self-esteem.  You can heal if you give yourself time.  You will grieve and you will see where you have been and wonder what you could possibly have been thinking.  Don't beat youself up on this path, either.  You are in good company.  All of us entered a relationship and tried to do what people normally do with reasonable expectations and high vulnerability.  And we got confused and manipulated as they renegotiated every agreement and blamed all difficulties on us.
  You get to choose.  It is your life and your choice.  No one else, not even she, gets to dictate your choices or set all the terms of your relationship with her.
   

Do they ever get it? Like if she has traits of BPD? I want us to do some kind of class if I stay. Sometimes I think she sees. She told me this morning on the phone that she is beginning to understand why I just don't like all the conflict. I told her that what happened to me as a kid with my dad, I can't remember a lot of it. I know what he did, I know why I got in trouble, but so much of the whole thing is missing.

Just to refresh, my dad knocked the heck out of me when I was in 5th grade. He wanted me to help my sis do her homework, but I was doing mine, and kept telling him that. It wasn't good enough, so I got sent to my room. I feel certain I was roughed up on the way. I was in my room in bed, crying, and he came back down in a rage, and just layed me out. I know I screamed, but that is all I remember, until I got off the bus the next day to come home from school. I know at some point I looked in a mirror and I had a hand print on my face. My mom tried to get me to talk about it, and I wouldn't. I just cried. He never apologized.

So I wanted her to see that because so much if this is missing, I feel like there are things she says or does that my subconcious recognizes and it triggers these feelings. It is why I don't like to fight, or have someone talk to me very bluntly and directly. I just cringe. I have even had a boss talk to me directly and felt the fear of being struck.

She says she understands that now. Before she would just dismiss it, but I think she needed to see I was a child when this happened. I didn't have logic skills, or even reasoning skills at my age when it happened. She says I need to let it go. I said, I am not angry about it, my dad is forgiven, but I can't deal with what I can't recall. You know?

This is why I told her I just let stuff go. I will die on a hill over something big, but something small, something little, no. And I told her I need to feel heard. I need to know you heard what I said. Its respect. If I get that, then I am able to deal with things better.

I don't know what will happen. I just don't. She said yesterday she wanted me to do online dating for 2 months. I said why? She says so I will see what is out there, and realize she is better. She says quality women don't use dating sites. I know when I have been on them, you sure get a lot of people hitting you up that don't even read to see what you like. And of course, they are never what they say.

I am 6'3'' and weigh about 180. I call myself average. If you are 5'4'' and weigh 180, you aren't average. You know what I mean? Or you say non smoker only, and you get those who are "trying to quit".

So I said no, I don't want to do online dating. I don't want to waste money on that. She said, I will give you money for it. No thanks... .

I wonder if she got some therapy would it help her? If she would go.

My dear Lockjaw,
  What happened to you was horrible child abuse and there is absolutely no excuse for a grown man doing that to a kid.  I suspect it wasn't the only time.  My friend, please get counselling over this issue.  And perhaps your girlfriend will wait for a few months while you start working through this.  I can't imagine what that did to you.  He should have been someone you could count on to defend you, but you had to avoid him.   Yes, this sets us up for being linked to a person with BPD or other similar traits later.  I ask you to seek counselling only on this personal abuse issue for now... .it seems to be the root.  You may want to run from it, but have courage, it will be worth the pain because you will gain perspective. Please keep us posted.

I am seeing a counselor about it. I told him, and got really upset when I did. My GF knows about it too. She has softened up on it, she said for a long time I just need to get over it. Like I was still mad at my dad. I am not mad at him. I am past all that. He is forgiven too.

But what I am not past is the effects of it. I believe she finally saw that. I had awful issues growing up. I never got in trouble in school, except for grades. I was put in AP classes in High School, but no one told me. So in some of them I struggled, in others I did well. When I was about 16 I started drinking, and let me tell you, I took to that like a fish to water. By the time I was 21, I had 2 dui's, and was drinking over 12 beers a day, everyday. I was in pain, and this whole thing with my dad seemed to be the root.

I put myself in rehab, and walked out 28 days later realizing I had a problem. I hated AA, I never went to a single meeting once I got out. I did 2 years of aftercare at a local hospital, meeting 1 time a week. After that I quit. Funny thing though. I didn't stop with going to bars and stuff, so I was at a bar one night, with my best friend, and was just struggling. I looked at him and said, hey, either buy me a pitcher of beer so I can stay here, or take me home, because I can't stay here and not drink. He took me home.

That night I realized I was a beaten man. I prayed to God that night to take away my desire to drink, and did He. I could feel it leave my body. It was and is a miracle. That was over 28 years ago, and I still have no desire to drink. I never relapsed.

She knows about all of this.

For a long time, I was good. Then I was reading a book that made alot of this come back up. I have always struggled with my parents, I don't meet their expectations. They don't get me.

I did boyscouts as a younger kid. Got Eagle. I went camping every chance i got. It got me out of the house. When I was old enough to be gone from the house, I was.

I love my dad, but sometimes I wonder what I would be like if this hadn't happened to me. I don't know what happened to me later on after this. I know if he got really in my face and I had no where to go, I would bring it up and throw it in his face. I'd challenge him to do it again. That seemed to make him back off. But I had other instances where he was just a bully. That was his way.

I am such an introvert in person too. I can talk forever here, like this, in person I am quiet and reserved. If I get comfortable, then you will see my dry witty side.

One interesting thing I was discussing some of this with my sis, who was also a victim. She said one time I pulled a shotgun on my dad. I said, no, that isn't true. I just went and got it, because he was mad at me. I didn't even have ammo. I asked her why she thought I got it. She said she didn't know. I said it was because I didn't feel safe. I used to hide from him. I told her that is why I always have a gun on me now. I won't set foot in the woods without one. Usually always a pistol.

Funny how you remember some of this stuff when you talk about it. I just now realized that. Probably why I hide from her sometimes. I am getting worse I think sometimes. I have a wifi camera up in my house too. Mainly for when I am not there. But if she is mad at me and not there, at night, I will turn it on.

Isn't that sad?

Sometimes I feel like I am so damaged. When I was drinking, I just wanted to be good at something. You know? I was too. I could drink like a fish, and I was an awesome quarters player. Some thing to be good at.

GF may get me after all. Who knows? I don't.

Ah Lockjaw, a sad world this is!  That is what your GF understands, I think.
It sounds like a very dysfuncional growing up led to a very dysfunctional adulthood.  It happens all the time.  Possibly your dad has BPD as well?  It would certainly set you up to fall into a similar relationship as an adult. 
   You might try journaling everything you remember.  It can help you grab the memories and later see patterns.  You asked God to take that strong desire to drink away, and you testify that He did.  Obviously, you are of great value to Him.  You are not too broken, it is not too late. 

I remember things every once in a while. Usually I have to be talking about it, sometimes telling someone, like here does. This time made me remember I used to hide from him when he got angry.

I don't know what his deal is. He was a work a holic. He didn't drink much, my mom drinks every day. Not a lot, but, every day. We were raised catholic, so I have seen priests come to our house and get loud drinking wine, so... .you know they were buzzing at least. I doubt a police officer would have stopped a priest back then.

My dad pushed me to work. I had a paper route, that was his idea. I cut grass, his idea, and I babysat. When I turned 16 I had to get a job.

He blamed all my stuff on someone else too. My DUI's were my friends fault. He called one of the dads, or at least said he was. I loved cars. And guns. He took me hunting long enough to get into it, and then quit. As long as I could drive, he paid the membership. I quit going to the one club, and just hunted some private property with a friend instead.

The more I think about things, the more I think what he did is why I have always wanted guns, and always kept whatever I had loaded.

Things happen for a reason though. You said God must want me. He does. I can prove it. When I was getting close to bottom, my mom took me out to see some guy at the hospital who ran the program I went into. He had me take the MMPI, and talked to me. He could tell I had issues with my dad. He asked me if I would consider his program, and I said, no I wasn't there yet. He said ok, but I want you to promise me something. I said ok. He said, don't do anything else to get yourself in trouble. Can you do that? I said yes sir I will try.

So a few weeks later, I had had enough, and called my mom and said, I am ready. It took a few weeks to get me situated at work, and what not, and then off I went. I had a counselor there, I wish I could find him, who just had my number. I think the other guy who ran the program had gotten ahold of my dad, and asked why does your son have such a problem with you? They made my dad come down one day, and we went down into the basement of this hospital. All my people there sat in a circle around me, I was in the floor, and they made my dad confess. He couldn't look at me. He teared up, but admitted he had hit me to hard.

I don't remember anymore about it. That's all.

But the counselors knew. They knew why I was in pain, and why I drank. I wonder if they ever told him?

Then even more interesting. On my second DUI. My favorite thing to do back then was get some beer and drink and ride back roads. Just to explore and look around. I was kind of a night owl. So when the police tried to pull me over, I of course took off. And I was getting away. But I had this "feeling" this "compulsion" to pull over. As though a voice commanded me to pull over. Mind you, I was getting away, I knew where I was heading out of town, and I knew I would have that officer lost in no time, but I headed the command and pulled over. When I was being taken back to the police cruiser, I noticed I had somehow managed to knock my muffler loose, and it had worn a groove down to the steel belt in my back tire. So... .I would have most certainly had a flat and who knows what would have happened then.

I remember one of the officers names, but what is funny about it, is where I worked, I knew everyone, and everyone knew me. So I was working one day, and he comes in with his wife, except the him is not the face, its some other guy, right? Oh and when I went to court, my lawyer told the judge, who also knew me, that I was going to rehab, and he was quite pleased. He said he would not have given me any jail time if he didn't have to.

So anyway, for a couple years I see this officer and his wife come in the store, right? One night, I was working customer service and he walks up to me and goes " can I ask you a question"? I said yes sir. He says "were you that guy... .?" and I cut him off and said Yes sir I was. I said, I want you to know something. I haven't had a drink since rehab, and to be honest, I really don't remember what happened that night. He looked at me and said ( and this still brings tears to my eyes ) "That's good son, because we were all worried about you".

It was the warmest most genuine thing a man had said to me up until that point in my life. I thought all these police officers were just out to rain on my parade, and give me tickets. I never realized they actually cared about me.

I have just never thought of myself as valuable. Most of my employers don't see my value, it takes a special person. I am not big about boasting, I like to be quiet and do my thing. I seem to be drawn to and attract women who like me because I can do things. I am handy around the house, I can cook, clean, and do most anything home improvement wise, but I don't like electrical very much. It hurts when you get bit! HAHA... And I can be quiet and just listen alot of the time, which makes them think something is wrong. No, just quiet.

I have always hoped and wanted to find someone who cared about me, appreciated and valued me, and understood me. I want to get well, and be healed, but... .sometimes its hard, things creep in before you know it. And I am a single dad with custody of 2 boys, so my plate is full.

thanks for listening to me... .God does take care of people. I guess you just have to be receptive.

Dear Lockjaw,
  That is what we are here for, to keep each other alive and sane.  You are always welcome to talk.  I have told my problems often enough.  People DO care.  Isn't that beautiful?  And BTW I believe in angels.

Sounds like my life. I have only recently learnt about BPD and it was an eye opener. Ever since I got married to my BPD wife, my interactions with my parents and my real sisters went from bad to worse to the extent that the communication with them is mere namesake. Gone are those days of those hearty laughs with them. Reason, my wife believes each one of us are against her, dislike her and so on and so forth. It has been close to 3 years now that she has not spoken to my father and occasionally with my mother and sisters. My parents have hardly seen my kids in these many years. And guess what, to help her in this then there is my extended family who she confides into. They make her feel good but actually they are all having fun of the entire circumstance that I and my parents and sisters are going through.

My family likes my GF. I think it helps she is smart and beautiful, my ex wasn't as smart and let herself go.

And my sons' adore her, which is probably the major reason. My youngest son eats her up. He likes she is not fake and is direct. He can sniff out a poser in a heartbeat.

She sounds good, Lockjaw.   Caution, caution and slow we go, right?  You and your boys have been traumatized, so this new lovely lady is like salve to your wounds.
 How are her other relationships, especially those with her mother and siblings?  Does she have plenty of friends and interests?   I would encourage you to take your time.  After all, the courtship is the fun part.

She is an only child. She has been wounded by her dad. He was hands off, for his own reasons. He saw as a child a drunk father who would come home and try to get with his sisters. So... .he ends up with a beautiful daughter, and through his trauma as a child, has no relationship with her. I get it.

She says she is over it, but doesn't seem to see that she was still wounded. She has a special needs son, who her dad adores and dotes over. I know that has to hurt her, and yet at the same time, she feels blessed he can be that way for her son. He is her sons favorite person.

She says she has lots of friends, but I don't see it. I see guys who want to bang her. No real women friends. She is a major B$%@#. She says so. I was like, that something to put on your headstone. She responds by she doesn't want a funeral.

She cannot see herself objectively. Her mom calls her and does to her what she does to me. She HATES IT, yet never makes the connection. She tells her mom when her mom says you never come around anymore that the reason is because she causes drama. HELLO!    I told her you do the same thing to me. You hate it when she does it to you, but don't understand why I hate it when you do it to me.

I told her there is something she does that triggers a subconscious reaction in me. Something with how my dad was that I can't remember. When I shut down and don't want to talk anymore, she has triggered it. I think its because you can't convince her she is wrong when she is. There is no way to tell her hey, you are being a jack wagon and her take it well, or see it. Maybe later, in days she can, but in the moment, no.

If I am being a jerk and you ask me if I am being one, I will own it. Straight up say, yes, I am being a jerk. Her? Not an option. It is always ok for her to do the same things I get fussed at for doing. and she never gives a sincere humble christian apology.

It is always something like, sorry. She will whisper it. Its never I am sorry for saying or doing XYZ. I was rude, insensitive, controlling, whatever adjective you want. When I tell her I am sorry, I tell her what I am sorry for.

So I think the general perception of her is she lacks boundaries and is a royal B. Hence she has no one to do things with.

I am an introvert, so I don't like crowds or make friends well. But I am going to start working on it.

I also get blocked from everything for several days at a time. I have come to realize it is actually repreave for me. It's better than he horrible fighting. But soon when she's not so angry so will contact you and probably be sorry. The remorse my BPD ex felt hooked me back in every time.
It's a cycle. Stand your ground. If you need to apologize, do. Be patient, let her blow off some steam.  Trust me, it's better that way.

She is still mad.

This is all so funny if you think about it. So I sent my ex an email and said my son said you got married saturday. Hope it works out, congrats, blah blah right?

She sends me back a message and said she sent me an email about. Come to find out it was in my spam folder, I put in a new server last week and had issues with my email.

So I let GF know, hey she did send me an email, it ended up in my spam folder. She is angry because she (gf) wasn't heard. Of course, she left out the part about she didn't hear me, or care what I thought, she had to voice her opinion. She said she listens to me rant about my work, or her, but I didn't listen to her rant about her. And she wanted to rant about it while I had the kids and couldn't answer her, and of course when I said, I can't talk about this right now, did she hear that? Nope, she kept right on talking. Just like when we have an argument and I say, ok my food is ready, I need to eat. What does she do? Keeps right on talking.

I am like, what gives you the right to rant about my ex wife when she didn't do anything to you? My GF is like the gov't. She finds a problem, and then needs to be the fixer of said problem. I didn't say that to her, you know, because that would be gas on a fire.

So anyway, I reminded her of everyone else's reaction, my mom, dad, sis, mine, my best man friend, and my kids. Then her's. You might gather that everyone else was like, well OK then, lol, and her's was nuclear launch is immenent. She was mad for me and my sons. For what my ex did to us. Well if we aren't mad, why should she be?

So had I actually listened to my GF and jumped in my ex wife's case about getting married and not giving me any respect by telling me ahead of time, I would have looked like a tool. And destroyed alot of what I have worked for, which is getting her to communicate and work with me for the kids benefit.

Personally I think the GF is upset because I have made tons of progress with this, and she can't hold over my head she and her ex are able to work together for their sons' benefit.

And she didn't call me or see me on my birthday. Now imagine if I pulled that on hers? That would be on my permanent record. I would hear about that every year.

But like you said, the reprive is good sometimes.

Oh and she is also mad because I didn't invite her to my work Xmas party. You know, because I didn't get my ex to agree to take the kids a day early until monday, and she acted a fool monday night. So now I can't ask her because she will say its a pity ask, because she brought up.

#winning :)

Good thing she's your girlfriend and not your wife.  Are you sure you are ready to deal with a significant other who holds your personal emotional growth "over your head" rather than applaudes your efforts?  Just wondering.
 

No I was thinking about that on the way to work this am. I sent her a short message last night that I was sad I was sleeping alone again, and she came back with how it is all my choice. So I guess the decision for her to go thermonuclear over something that I actually thought was comical and ended up the ex wife did notify me, didn't matter.

I swear, her ability to dodge responsibility for the things she does is just mind blowing to me.

And I also realized that my ex, who never apologized either, did a better job of apologizing for leaving me and the boys the way she did than my GF does.

I guess if I mattered, she would have put me first and called me on my Bday. But its not a big deal, I am shy and don't like to have a big deal made about things like that. Thankfully my work wife is off in China, or she would have emailed out everyone at the office like she normally does. I was able to keep my Bday secret for a long time.

She has a sweet side, but good lord she can be a royal B. And I should say this, I am not the kind of guy who says things like that. If I say someone is a royal B, you can believe they are. I just don't use language like that.


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I'm not sure how to do this quote thing. I relate to this so much. I have been called names that aren't even in most peoples vocabulary. The rage is so hard to deal with. BPD people seem to feel justified in tearing people to shreds. My ex would conveniently forget what she said to me.  So she moves on fine and I'm left feeling like I was in a blender. And there was a wonderful side to her,  but it got to where my recovery times were longer than the next explosion would happen and I got to the point that I had to be done. The good wasn't worth the bad.

Oh its better. While I was seeing my counselor today, I got 14 messages, 2 voicemails, 3 emails, and several calls.

It was so bad I had to turn my phone off.  Then she wanted to carry on when I got back to work, so I had to turn phone off and put office phone on DND.

Then she said she was humiliated. Well DUH! How many times have I said, I am not hashing out an argument while I am working?

Oh I was just gonna surprise you... .

I mean dang. Blowing up someones phone because you need to be heard?

Oh and you should have seen her try to show me in my settlement agreement how my ex broke it by getting married. LOL!

I did get an apology, but now the next phase begins. This is where she will spin it to make it seem like I am a cruel heartless bastage because I dared to not listen to her, and I dared to have a boundary and enforce it, and she is a victim... .they are masters at it.

She is having a panic attack right now. Says I need to call her. I did and it goes to VM. I have panic attacks. Not her.

I feel like a lab rat sometimes.

Well I was dumb. But I felt good when I did it.

I dropped a truth bomb on her. She made the assertion that all her opinions come from good intentions.

So I said this:

Your mom calls you up and gives you her opinion on a lot of things. It royally pisses you. It pisses you off to the point you have told your mom it is the reason you don't call her as much or go see her as much as you used to. Your mom loves you and only has good intentions, right? Yet you do the same thing to me she does to you, but its ok for you to cut her off, it is not ok for me to cut you off. It's ok for you to be pissed off, its not ok for me to be.

I said, there it is, a truth bomb. Tell me I am wrong. Give me the spin, tell me how its different. Your mom loves you, you hate it. You love me, and I hate it. I feel the same as you about it. How many times have we been here? How many times have I asked you to tone it down? Why can't you just say, wow I really do that? I can see why you get so upset? Why can't I be validated?

She of course had no answer.

This was even more interesting. She asked me if I was being an A hole. I said, yes pretty much. Then I asked her, what are you being? She comes back with I feel ... .I stopped her and said, that is an emotion. I asked you what you are being, I am looking for an adjective. A hole is not a feeling. Of course she never answered that either. Another hallmark of a BP if you ask me.

I said you know the difference between me and you? If you ask me if I am doing something, I will straight up own it, you won't. When I apologize to you, I tell you what I did. You just say sorry. You never own your behavior. You never admit what you did.

And she never gets how this constant arguing is cummulative. She seems to think she starts argument, she says sorry, clean slate. Never happened, erased from the memory banks. But it's not. It's a constant beat down of oh here we go again. Sister girl is off the reservation.

So into the weekend I go. YAY!

Lockjaw- seems that you got your boundaries pushed. Constant messages on your phone- not being accountable for behaviors. Those are boundaries. Not acceptable to you.

I've been pushed to where I just let it out- truth bomb as you say. Doesn't often go very well but sometimes it just get to the point. I don't know if real learning in the long run comes out of that. In the short run, I think the reaction scares the other person - they may get angry, dysregulate, and /or come back apologetic with promises to do better. The "wipe the slate clean" pretend it didn't happen seems to be a common pattern. I think that is the kind of apology they can do. The one we seek- deep thought and owning the behavior seems to be hard to get, at least in my experience.

What does seem to get the message about boundaries is action over time. Stating - I will not receive phone calls at work or at the counselor- I will turn my phone off. Then- well she can test the boundary- call as many times as she wants to- but will get an automated answer. If you answer just once, after 14 times, the behavior is reinforced.

The other one- how she speaks to you- has to be done by you just walking away. Focus on talking about you, not her " I feel too frustrated to continue this conversation- I need to take a break" and just follow through.

The dramatic exchange between the two of you is a form of energy. It can actually feel stimulating mentally to have these emotional incidences. Some people can feel addicted to drama and anger- and tend to stir it up. Also, this is intense focus on her. So it may feel as if you are being baited into the arguments, but the pattern is due to both of you. If you can pay attention to how you are feeling- and if you feel agitated, then that is the time to step out of the discussion.

Mostly I have found that letting loose does feel good in the moment, but the result was that the other person went into victim mode at being "attacked" and didn't see their part in it. Consistent actions over time, not words, seemed to work better in the long run.

She does the victim thing well. That is something that drives me up a wall. She can be totally wrong, and yet she spins it to make herself a martyr.

I did ask her last night when she was complaining because I wasn't easing off if she liked it. She of course said she didn't. I said, this is how it feels to me when you start in. That makes me a bad person, because she says I am doing it intentionally. So I said, human beings have the ability to bite their tongue and temper what they say. You possess this ability, so by default, when you state an opinion about something you weren't asked for, you made a choice to state it, thus implying intent. Tell me I am wrong.

She couldn't. And I am sure it fell on deaf ears.

She said this am the reason she called me so much was she wanted to see me. I said, that doesn't excuse making 14 calls. You call once and leave a message. You sent all of this while I was in the counselors office. I had to turn my phone off. It didn't make me want to see you more. I asked her how would you feel if I blew you phone up while you were sitting in a doctors office, or your bosses office?

Her thing with work is I used to message her more. Well my boss changed, and quite frankly, I got on ADD meds, so I am way more focused, which I have told her.

She said this morning I wasn't saying much. I said I was listening to you. She said she is an only child, she can talk to herself. I said I can't talk and you talk at the same time. I said do you see what you are doing? If I talk to much, that is wrong, if I don't talk enough, that is wrong. What is right?

She wants us to come up with some rules. I said ok, I want this rule. If you don't like it when I do something to you, don't do it to me, and vice versa. That is the rule I want.

I want her to read the boundaries book, I asked her to, but she said no. She doesn't get that concept. It's like my kids. If there is a decision that needs to be made about them, me and their mom can't just decide, she has to be consulted too. If I don't consult her, then  I am not a team player. I said of course, I don't insist on that with your son. Why don't you call his dad up and tell him that your BF wants to be consulted on everything as it relates to his son and see what he says.

I learned a lot about being a step parent, and the pitfalls and traps in it. No one can come in and replace a childs same sex parent, and the child accept that, unless the child is very young. If you do that, they just resent you. Been there, done that. The second part is it pisses off their same sex parent. Been there, done that.

So I told her I know what my role is with your son. His dad is his dad, good or bad (he's good) and I honor him and respect him for that. I will never come between him and his son. She of course says, you can't. I said, whether I can or can't isn't part of the equation. He is his dad, I OWE HIM that respect. By same token, you owe it to my ex. You don't have to like her, be her friend, or think she will be a rock star mom (she won't) but you have to at least respect and honor her, for my kids sake.

The insane side of me really wishes there was an argument judge someplace. You go, sit down, state your case, and the person says who is smoking crack and who isn't. You know? Not that I want to be right, but there needs to be a resolution. If two people have different thoughts about it, it seems it would be better if someone just said, hey, you are a little off base.

She says I dont' ever see her good qualities. I said, if I didn't, I would have said bye Felicia a long time ago, and listed some for her.

I swear I think this is the only kind of woman I date. I realize I am not the smartest guy, and sometimes I need someone to get out their crayons and draw me a picture, but dang, none ever seem to get the concept of if you want me to treat you a certain way, extend that courtesy to me too... .I always start out nice. I let things go.

This is something she doesn't see either. If every week, a new argument starts, and she starts it, and I handle the first 20 nice, and then gradually get more and more frustrated, then being nice becomes way more difficult. So then she will say, well my punishment doesn't fit the crime. I said, what happens to a criminal with a long rap sheet? Do they get an easy sentence as their rap sheet gets longer for keeping on doing the same crime over and over? Or does their "punishment" get much greater?

That kind of logic falls on deaf ears. I was kinda proud of myself for coming up with it quickly, usually I am slow, like George on Seinfeld with the cut down comments.  lol lol lol lol lol

Lockjaw, have you accepted that you are dealing with mental illness?

Yes or else I am in the twilight zone or candid camera.

Sometimes I tell myself I can manage, and other times, I think its hopeless. And I do hold out hope that at some point a light will go off, but probably won't ever.

i ask because i see a lot of commonality in your previous post as to how i handled my relationship. trying to teach her by her own example, using her behavior against her.

you are setting yourself up for a lot of stress with this method. it feeds the dysfunctional cycle. it only builds your resentment toward her and her toward you.

dont get me wrong. you mean well, as i did. the unfairness, and inconsideration were flabbergasting to me as well, as was BPD at the time.

without radical acceptance that you see and experience things very differently, and changing your approach(es), its hard to make improvements that ease the stress for you.

how are your communication skills? have you learned and practiced the ones directly to the right ------>

I have looked at some of those. To be honest, when I click on them they go to messages, and then I have a hard time following sometimes. And then of course, alot of you here have terms or acronyms you use, and I have to go find out what they are before I can understand what the person is saying.

I am codependent. I have a hard time with conflict. So I am not a fan of saying something bothers me, unless its something major. I just let it go.

I try to stick to how I feel, and stay away from statements like "YOU DO".

I think the biggest thing I need to overcome if I want to stay with her is my initial reaction when she has one of her outbursts, or whatever you want to call it. I have to remember to get at her feeling, what is really the issue, not what she is fussing about.

She did say something more positive about seeing a counselor, so... .that may be in the works. I don't know if I think she is full blown BPD or if she just has traits.

And she does not like me stepping away from one of our disagreements. That triggers her abandonment. I told her the other day she was making some statement about I needed to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume her intentions are good as ir relates to her giving opinions, and I said to her, I will give you that as long as you give me that there are times I can't answer the phone, and that doesn't mean I am doing  it intentionally to hurt you.

I asked her to tell me if there was something I could do right now that would make her feel more secure, and she told me 4 things, which I put in my phone so I would remember them. Then she wanted to add a couple more and I said, let me work on these 4 for a bit.

She didn't ask me if she could do anything for me though... .but that is ok. I will just do what I can and see if it helps her react better.

she may not like it. that doesnt mean its not whats best for you. what kind of disagreements are we talking about? circular arguments? berating? worse?



this is unlikely given the impulsive nature of people with BPD, the need for immediate gratification, the response to being flooded with emotion at the time. leading by example is great. holding her accountable is important. trying to teach her "whats fair is fair" is likely to be banging your head against the wall.


i believe that reassurance is a loving action and it goes a very long way in these relationships, and its good that shes communicating her needs and wants. its important for you to remember that she is insecure by nature. its a part of her. its a balance - being an emotional caretaker while maintaining boundaries and realistic expectations. point being, be an emotionally supportive, attentive and loving partner, yes. listen, yes. expect those things to consistently make her feel more secure, or give more of yourself than you have to give, id discourage.

Arguments are usually about something very dumb and trivial. And it has a lot to do with what and how she says it. To me her tone is critical in nature. And she comes across as sounding all knowing. And she is usually never at fault or in the wrong. I think the more I hold out and try to be nice, the more she will do things to frustrate me so I get mad and fuss back. Then she says we are both wrong. I have said before, I would take that as me getting what I deserved, as in, I start a fight over something dumb, she tries to de-escalate it, and I keep on and one, and finally she has enough and drops the hammer. Both are at fault. I would say the instigator is and they ended up getting a dose of their own medicine. She of course doesn't like that concept at all.

Most of the time its hard to stay on the subject if she is wrong. As soon as the focus shifts to her, she is throwing everything at me. I told her she kitchen sinks me. She says I do that, if I give her examples of where she has done something similar in the past.

She is very instant gratification. The phone calls are an area where that is very obvious. And of course rather than understand I can't always answer the phone, she goes, we just won't talk on the phone when you are at work. I said, its ok if its not for long or its not an argument. I just don't want to hash out arguments at work over the phone. So there are times I feel like I am dealing with a child. But she will fuss if I treat her like a child.

Really tho, the thing that is most obvious is she doesn't work with logic well. So if she is off the reservation, such as she was when she called me and sent me all these messages the other day while I was in the counseling office, there is nothing I can say that she will see her behavior wasn't appropriate. And I hate to respond to it, because I feel like that is rewarding bad behavior.

Or she will say we aren't a team. I asked for some examples of how we could be more of a team, and that seems to baffle her. Like she was upset I made some changes to my visitation schedule with my ex for this week. I had a staff xmas party to go to after work, and couldn't go unless the boys were taken care of. She was unhappy I asked my ex to get the kids before telling her about the party. She says, so your ex knows about the party, but not me. I said, I wanted to be able to be sure she could take them before I said anything to you. Because if she couldn't then I wasn't going to go.

She felt we should have talked about it. I kind of think its dumb. And the thing that is really weird is she could be ok with this, but the way she says it,m you would not get that.

Here is an example of that. She says I an LJ, party of one. I don't really see that. But the way she says it, its derrogatory, and a problem. But then if I press, she says, its not a problem, you just need to decide. Then of course, I am sitting here thinking, well if its not a problem why are we talking about it?

So it seems like she needs to have more say in what goes on in and around my house, but we aren't engaged, we don't live together. It seems more to me like what she wants is for people further along. Does that make any sense?

She sounds dreadfully insecure and unsure of her status with you.  Looking for you to discuss mundane things with her may make her feel emotionally closer to you.  I know, sounds strange.
  Let's take the party situation.
You, very logically, thought something like, "I will go if I can get the boys taken care of.  Hmmmm, maybe I can switch times with their mom.   I'll just text (or call) and see if it can be done."  Now, to you, there is no point in letting your new girl know if it can't be done in the first place. 
  She, on the other hand, was probably thinking something like, "I am just a side issue in his life.  Everyone, even his ex who he doesn't like, knows his plans before I do!  How important am I to him?  Probably not very!  I am not a priority.  I'm more invested in this relationship than he is.  I care more.  I feel like crying."
  If you only knew how we women overcomplicate things in our heads!  But we don't do it on purpose.  Our thoughts are all connected together.  You can seperate and concentrate on one thing at a time.  Not us!  If you ask us where the meat came from, we are wondering if it is too tough, or if it tastes bad, or if you are thinking we spent too much. That is why you get an answer like, "I got,it at,the grocery store... .it was,on sale for $4.99 a pound.  That's 50% off!  I just got it yesterday."  And you're thinking, "Why did she add all of that info?  Where did she say she got it?  I think the game is coming on... .(checks phone) Yep."
   Have some pity on us poor girls.  Our brains go,like that 24/7 and no one made a point to teach us that men's brains don't.  Lol!

You are right about her and how she took it. She said my ex knew about the party before she did. Of course my ex knows about the party, its an annual event... .LOL! But I said to my GF, yes, but she didn't know I was going to take you... .

That didn't help me any.

What I can't fathom about her is when I met her, she seemed very sure of her self. Very confident. She is beautiful, and I tell her often she is hot, and sexy, and I love her body. I love to be seen with her. She asked me why, and I said, because you are hot, and guys are going, I wonder what that guy has going on to be with that hot woman. She thinks I am crazy and that I am hot. Which I don't. So I laughed and said we would be a mess if both of us thought of ourselves the way the other does.

I know her ex didn't want to do anything with her. Didn't really ever pursue her once she had her son. Didn't want to be seen with her, unless they went to eat and he could drink. So me pursuing her is a big deal. I have to ask her out on dates, even after a year and a half. And I try to. With me, time sneaks up on me, so I am always a step behind.

And I love she is very down to earth about a lot of things.

She is more type A than I am. I told her the other day that the way nature works, it tricks us. I found this article about it online. Our brains dope us up, and when that wears off, we end up where we are now, which is we are different. The beauty of it is nature does this on purpose, so we each challenge each other and make the other person grow.

For me, I could be more type A. I could be more driven. I could be more money conscious like she is. For her, she could be more laid back, not so blunt and direct, not so uptight about things.

I am actually qualified to be a CPA, I just have to take the exam, and pass, which is the hard part. It is what holds me back career wise, yet its hard to study when I have 2 boys in school and am the primary custodial parent. She said this AM she wished I would get it so she didn't have to work.

Maybe one of these days... .I want to get a study course and work on it.

She also gets upset when I tell her she is the only woman I give up hobbies for. I love to deer hunt, its deer season right now, and last year and this year, I routinely come back to do things with her. She says I am throwing that in her face. I said, maybe I didn't say it properly, but the gist of it is I enjoy being with you more than I enjoy spending the whole weekend in the woods hunting. The significance is you are the only person I can say that about. It means you are special... .

I have days I love her to death and think we will make it fine, and then I have days when she is one of her moods, and I go, WTH am I thinking.

She has a lot to deal with. Autistic son, asberger ex, in constant pain, and then she has me. ADD guy with two ADD boys. My youngest son loves her to death tho. He calls her "Queen of Beautifulness".

He loves to snuggle with her. I don't think his mom does much of that with him. And he is like her, he sees right through fake.

☺  Have you ever thought of asking her what she is most afraid of?  This is a special question to a woman, because we are all afraid of something, no matter how confident we are.  And that fear is what drives us.  Often for women, it is a deep fear of being left alone to deal with life (and usually with a child or children.)  It is that we are too much or too little to inspire love.  I suspect this question could open up her world a lot for you.  It sounds to me like you love and admire her!

I know what it is. It is a fear of disengaging. Ironic huh? She does the kinds of thing that makes a person disengage her.

The way she puts it though, you can't hold her accountable for her behavior. Say she goes off the reservation, and I try to calm and de-escalate the situation, right? That doesn't work, so I end up saying, hey, if you are going to be like this, then I am going home, hanging up, whatever.

I have just disengaged. So I have done to her what is her biggest fear, but I can't say, hey, you asked for it. You earned it. I have a right to be treated a certain way. There is no valid reason I can disengage. Not to her.

So I have asked, is it some kind of test. What do I have to prove?

I try to get her to see she should meet me someplace in the middle. Not very effectively.

My big thing is I hate to argue. Hence meeting in the middle.

She has a very well constructed wall of defenses. It is nearly impossible to address an issue with her.

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