BPDFamily.com

Saw a new psychologist yesterday. At the end of the session, he told me that he thinks it's a good idea that I'm making plans to leave because there's a good chance that I'd end up dead or framed and in jail.

Has a therapist ever shared an analysis like this with you?

No but my friends have!

Hi aiming4kindness,

Like Michel - I was also told  by some of my friends that they were worried the BPD was one day going to stab me.  One of my friends also told me independent of the above friend that my BPD was like a witch that had cast a spell over me trying to destroy me.

Now I don't know about elsewhere but in the UK it is pretty rare for male friends to criticise the female partner of another male to their face. It really is not a done thing.  The fact that so many of my close friends did this bears testimony to how bad their concern was and how they were able to see her for what she really was.

I have also had warnings like you from  a therapist regarding where the relationship would have eventually ended up.   

The therapist told me 1) I would end up dead - which would have been through one of her rages and her hurting me or me killing myself due to the abuse.  In hindsight this was accurate because back in August I was actively planning ways of escaping - specifically just disappearing to another country and telling no one  or taking my own life.   

I am a calm and peaceful person however there were times when she would just push and push with the verbal abuse and I could feel something inside of me rising up and saying "just please make her stop and shut her up".  I never physically acted on this but after another 5 years of abuse etc who knows ?

2) The therapist also told me that if this continues you will end up facing criminal proceedings.  I work myself in criminal justice and so my BPD always had leverage as she knew how much trouble she could get me into.  As the relationship deteriorated this is a button she started to press.

- She smashed  my bathroom up once in a rage  and called the police on herself.  I then received a call from an officer within my property asking if I wanted to press charges on her = deliberate way to cause me anxiety.

- She threatend that she was going to make false rape allegations against me so that I would be arrested.  An hour earlier she had begged me for sex as a way to help our relationship.  In hindsight I now see that she wanted sex so that she would have forensic samples for any rape allegation.

- She physically assaulted me in public on multiple occasions and I could do nothing because I didnt want to escalate situations/report anything due to not wanting my employer involved.

i would listen to the therapist Aiming4Kindess as it is sometimes very hard (at least it was for me) to see things clearly when you are in the middle of the storm.

 Yes.  This is a very accurate assessment.

After one rage episode I actually hid the kitchen knives on fear she might kill me someday.  I have a samurai sword that's an antique which belonged to my grandmother... .that's still hidden and my ex hasn't been in my life for two years.

In attempts to get closure for my ex's sudden withdrawal I was threatened with a RO. So all this youbare stating is a possibility and a fair assessment.

Aiming4kindness,

Are you feeling unsafe around your partner these days?  Did your psychologist expand on why he thinks that?

heartandwhole

Hello Aiming4kindness,

I, like so many here, was physically abused during the r/s. Two times, the second time FAR worse than the first (after which she apologized coldly without empathy with "Ok I know it's wrong to hit someone". One month after the second assault she told me she'd contemplated arson following the abuse! Yes. I'd have been burnt to death in my own flat. Good God. That's actually pure threat.

This was before my therapist and I got to to discussing these things. Has your partner shown signs of a more violent physical side earlier on? My ex was very strong physically, this I noticed nearly from the start, and she ALWAYS underestimated or wasn't aware of her own strength. Any warning signs with your partner?

You know your situation best, but from my own experience I know that things can get out of hand very quickly. And as you know these kinds of r/ss at least have huge negative impact on your self esteem, which could lead to drastic unwanted decisions etc.

heartandwhole asks a relevant question here!

Take care.

My mother sure did. She told me "that woman is very sick, you placed yourself in grave danger! you could have wound up dead. Don't be naive. You just never know what she could be capable of!"
She told me that God was on my side and had protected me :)

Mine said my life was at risk because there was sufficient evidence. My BPDex often hit me, once hard enough to shatter my eye socket, and also create a hemorrhage in my nasal passages. Had to be hospitalized. Ex did not indicate many limits when he raged and he continued to get physical even after this  facial injury required a complex reconstructive surgery. If he got really mad he would sometimes intentionally slap the location of this surgery. It happened only weeks after my procedure.

Also he once brandished a knife, holding it in my direction after I pointed out he was cooking with very  expired ingredients half an hour into preparing it. He didn't check the date. He raged when I suggest we give up and go to bed (it was 3am but he had to have his mac and cheese. Yep. Threatened with a knife over spoiled mac n cheese.

Therapist also said there was a realistic chance my ex would commit suicide because he was reckless and lacked limits when he started cutting. He would sometimes stab himself, I once feared he was going to hit an artery he was so careless.

My therapist won't treat BPDs and has no love for these people.

My family and friends told me to leave her alone after I described her behavior. After all of these years they were right all of that time. I remember her flying off of the handle and throwing things. She even punched a hole in a door. She never tried to get physical with me but I do think she was capable of it. Then it would have been me going to jail.

My fiancee' did, too!  Put her first through the glass of the front door and then claimed that she was just trying to close it.

I haven't felt safe around her for some time.  The therapist made the comments after I described a number of my partner's recent moments with him.

The lawyer I'm likely hiring told me that if I want to give myself any chance of primary custody, I need to try to hang in the relationship for another 1.5 - 2 months in order to build up sufficient evidence that I can be the primary caretaker.  Doing so by changing my work schedule to be home more often during the day, trying to get out in public more with my daughter so that others can see me parent, and documenting my partner's moments with extreme detail.

I would put your phones voice recorder on and let things play out as they often do. Yes, it's not admissible if they don't give permission in some courts (ask your lawyer). The idea is that it will come in handy if you intend to document the incidents in writing.

I found that on reflection, the rages were so jam packed with absurd moments it was almost impossible to remember all the chaos, lines crossed, etc.

Also I believe it's a very normal defense mechanism for the human mind to, in the face of trauma, detach, withdraw or repress after the fact many of the gory details of these moments. I have a firm PTSD diagnosis after what I dealt with. Trauma is a much more subtle beast than we think. Most people have this army vet, narrow view of it that really misses the boat.

My therapist is pretty certain it was the continual, repeating episodes of rage or dissociation/silent treatment  (silence is a form of verbal abuse, known as withholding) that put me in a constant state of vigilance (walking on egg shells, waiting for the other shoe to drop) that my mind was likely detaching and then repressing so many details. It's very valid and true. No person, no matter how much they think they can step back or intellectualize these moments is safe from the long term, mentally corrosive trauma they institute. I am a highly functioning corporate type. Ivy Leaguer. Always thought I could think my way around things. There's a reason therapy is a profession. Im also a very strong man who could have thrown my ex across the room if I returned volley of his physical abuse. I was rightly  incapable of this because normal people can't hit who they love. But look at what I put up with! nobody is immune to the pervasive nature of chronic mental/verbal/physical abuse.

I am only coming to terms with this after a year of slow separation including moving a state away and a final break up in the last two months. And it's so hard to recall specifics of the almost daily grind that our fights contained.  I think my brain is simply protecting itself.

But yea. I would really suggest a recording of some sort so that when you put pen to paper, you can compose a sincere and accurate play by play. I don't think I could have done it when I was in the FOG of this relationship, and many of us including me, on these boards, would struggle to provide effective narratives of the abuse or our accurate role as victim in these scenarios. I am just recently understanding this. Inside of the relationship, I still carried blame and responsibility for my abuse all throughout the final moments.

Great point 'CBM' regarding the voice recordings especially if you feel at risk OP.

I started to do this as soon as I started to get wind that she was about to flip on me.

I found audio has helped in two ways  -

1) On one occasion I got over an hour of recording (covertly) when she was threatening to go to the police to make the false accusation of rape. 
If she had gone through with the allegation that recording would have very likely kept me out of prison as the night before she had begged me to have sex with her and so there was forensic evidence of intercourse.

2) She developed a habit of punching herself in the face (close fisted) and full force to her own face.  Whilst trying to intervene to prevent her injuring herself I would also press record on my phone and make sure thay it would pick me up saying very clearly - please dont punch yourself - im here to help you - you will injure yourself.

It took time to be able to respond in that way when the punching occured as the first time it happened I was just in pure shock and actually started crying when trying to hold her arms.

Once you are rid of the BPD - the auido is also a great reminder of what you went through.  For me whenever I have started to feel nostalgia all I have to do is play a few of the audio recordings and it reminds me very clearly of how lucky I am to be away from her and how truly evil she was at times.

That is really tough, Aiming. Has your partner been physically aggressive toward you? Do you feel comfortable talking about the details?

Yup. Told me i was risking my life. He would rage for hours then deny remembering it or minimize it completely. Punched himself, walls, tables, threw things, slated doors hard enough to break them and tried to drive me into oncoming traffic intentionally by turning left across  lanes of ongoing busy cars. I could go on but why bother. I truly by the end know he was capable of it. Still breaks my heart. Still miss him every day... .not the violent crazy side but the other part. Unfortunately we have to accept the good with the bad and although I radically accept who he is (most days) I refuse to be a part of that.   

Heed the advice. You may think it extream now. But BPD,s  can be very dangerous.

Hindsight is 20-20 and if you want to leave, make a plan but I wish I could redo some of my actions as well as those of my BPD though I understand that I can't control her. Going NC which was what I wanted and everyone around me urged cost me my job, financial stability and new relationship due to stress about job. If you can leave peacefully and make some sort of arrangement that you BOTH can live with for the time being, I urge that because listening to others (therapists, lawyers, etc.) significantly cost me. I knew her best and just wish it didn't get so hostile. It did because in her opinion, NC and my moving on my with my life signaled abandonment and she felt the need to "get even" with me so I urge you to be careful as you plan and if possible, exit safely and peacefully.

Oh yes, counselor, friends, family, coworkers... .all were afraid of my safety. I 
cbm149 .  your story has alot of similarities to mine,
For the longest time kind of scoffed at the idea of physically hurting me,  I have been with this person for 36 years, Once and only once in a rage did she grab me by the neck and left scratches.  I think it scared the daylights out of her... .OR... .I held my cool and did not retaliate.  Then I was in the passenger seat, she was driving and raging.  Feared for my life esp when later she said to me... .no had no recorder... .she had wondered if it would be possible to run into an overpass on the passenger side and just injure me and not her.

I listened to everybody after that... .

MyuBPDw came at me twice. Grabbed me by the shoulders and forced me backwards. I put my hands behind my back and head down. She screamed in my face. I told her repeatedly to back off. She didn't. I hate to wait until the tirade was over and exited the room. To this day she either denies that she did this or says it wasn't a "big deal".

Recently I found out from one of her family members that she physically abused her first boyfriend. I know she hit and knocked out her ex husband on one occasion. She told me he called her a "cow" and he was drunk.

I consider myself lucky at this point. And now she has moved out.

Hi heartandwhole, she punched me in my chest once.  Last week, in the middle of one of her moments, I was wiping down the kitchen counter to get the space ready for our eight-month-old baby's bath, and she came by and slammed a towel on my forearm. 

Since our baby was born, she has joked about stabbing our dog and me, and then joked about slitting my throat with a razor (that one was a lot of fun).

Aiming4Kindness,

This is very concerning.  Can you call local DV resources in your area to get an idea about making a safety plan,  and options? Given an 8 month old baby, this is hard,  but there is help,  even as a father. Resources are better for males these days,  unlike the past.

My therapist once told me that something my pwBPD told me was the difference between a threat and a  plan. The therapist was insistent I start a police file, contact a DV counsellor and make a safety plan. I did and looking back I am glad I did.

  red-flag  

This is the difference between a threat and a plan. Please report it to both your therapist, MD, local domestic violence organization and police. Start a record.  Even if nothing happens leave a paper trail.  Its always better to be safe than sorry. Please this is a serious situation and I am concerned for your and your child. Don't underestimate the ability of a broken brain to act irrationally.

I'll never forget the 2nd time I had my uBPDexgf arrested; I'll spare you the gory details but she could've easily killed someone that night. Anyway, as the police were taking her to jail one of the officers said to me, "You need to get rid of her, now. Get her out of your house. I promise you this isn't going to end well. You're going to wind up dead or in jail."

Three years later and I finally walked away from the entire nightmare (10 years together). I've spent the last 17+ months figuring out what I'd been thru at the disordered hands of my ex.

It's devastating but there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it's not an oncoming train. It's your soul, shining, again.

Thank you.  What does ":)V" stand for?

DV=Domestic Violence

Thank you... .I hadn't thought of that.  Honestly, it's just in the past few weeks that I've woken up and realized that I need to take action.

When I shared the razor and stabbing threats with the couples counselor we've been seeing (not the therapist mentioned at the top of this post), he simply told me that Jessica was joking and that I shouldn't take the threats seriously.

After doing a ton of reading on BPD recently, I sent an e-mail to the couples counselor ahead of our most-recently-scheduled appointment, asking him to share with me the specific training, reading, and workshops he's done/attended on BPD.  He didn't respond.  When we showed up in his office last week, he told us that he can't work with us any longer because, "[My name], I unable to influence you any longer."  

I'm taking that as a win.  I've let this guy convince me that this relationship is safe and that it's the best I'll ever find.  No way.

Regarding DV and police reports, can anybody share what those agencies do when reports come in?  What are the likely impacts on our daughter?  Thank you.

Making a police report (or calling), while necessary in some cases, is an escalation that can't be taken back.

An anonymous call to a local hotline, however, is a good first step. They deal with this, and can help you assess the situation, come up with a safety plan, and guide you to local resources.

Safety First (https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety_first.pdf)

What they do depends on where you are. Call and ask for advice and then go from there. Where I live I can start a police file and report mu concerns without them contacting him. It just puts us on their radar in case I ever call 911 they are aware and take me seriously.  It also creates a paper trail for court. I can also call a domestic violence shelter and get advice.  Moist areas have a free hot line that dispenses advice. I would also get a proper therapist familiar with BPD or NPD and DV. You need to start a paper trail outside the house of what is happening so it isn't turned around on you. Please be careful and take these kinds of threats seriously.

Hi Aiming,

I agree with  C<||| Turkish. Check out the Safety Plan. It's much better to know what you will do ahead of time in urgent situations, than to try to make decisions in the heat of high emotions, or worse. You'll feel better knowing that you have support and resources lined up, just in case. Hopefully you will never need to use it.

I also recommend reading this thread about DV:

TOOLS: Domestic Violence Against Men (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=87480.0)

You are not alone in this.  

heartandwhole

Thanks so much, everybody.  I think I'm definitely going to ask the police about starting a file that will not lead them to contact her at this point.

FWIW, here's the full story re the razor threat.  My fiancee' hates that I have a number of female friends.  A few months ago, one of those friends texted me to check in and see how I'm doing.  My fiancee saw the text.  At the time, I was shaving.  I asked my fiancee if she could shave the back of my neck.  She told me, "Why doin't you call [the friend who had just texted me] and have her do it."  I told her no.  She then said, "Sure, come here and I'll slit your throat."

Going to check out the safety plan now... .

She filed protection order against me and my 75 years old Mon. Protection order  was denied by female judge. A friend of mine was arrested to the breaking PO. He never did at all.

Yes my therapist said a similar thing. To make a choice to stay and risk getting hurt, or go. It sounds so simple now that I am looking back, yes i did leave, but at that time that option just wasn't obvious to me.

Thanks for sharing this.  So few words carry so much support.  :-)   

I'm finding my way out right now.  I'm feeling so much compassion for her, but I'm finally feeling a good amount of compassion for myself as well.  It's such a gift.

Thanks in advance for continuing to read and reply here.

I recently retained a lawyer to help me navigate my way out of my relationship with my uBPD fiancee.  The lawyer hired an expert witness who specializes in BPD.  I shared the "you're going to end up dead or framed and in jail" thoughts with the expert witness, and she agreed.  That was yesterday afternoon.

Last night, while giving our 9 month old a bath, my fiancee' and I began to get into an argument.  (We made an agreement before our child was born that I would work full time to support our family and she would care for our kiddo.  She has started to book work meetings for herself during my work hours with the expectation that I would come home and watch our daughter.  I told her that it's great that she wants to work, but we need to hire a nanny ASAP as I can't just come home whenever she books a meeting during my working hours and wants me to watch our baby.  She believed that I was being selfish since she's made so many career sacrifices to care for our child.)  Anyway, I told her that I didn't want to argue in front of our baby.  She told me that arguing in front of our child doesn't affect her.

This same argument tends to happen 2-3 times a week.  I get upset about her yelling in front of our kiddo and eventually go to another room in the house, hide in a locked bathroom until she calms down, go for a walk, etc.  As I was washing our baby, I couldn't really leave.  I got so upset that I took a few steps towards her, and told her softly but firmly, "Shut the f*** up.  Shut the f*** up."  She looked at me, picked our child up from the bathtub, and told me that I was "abusing" her.  This marked the second time in three weeks that she accused me of abusing her.  (The first is when I lost all tact and told her that an e-mail she sent me that was full of allegations about how I'm a horrible partner/never there for her was "full of s***" and lies.)

With all of the concerns my therapist and now legal team have expressed about me being framed for abuse, I grabbed my phone, turned on the video camera, put it on her, and said, "This video confirms that you're claiming that I abused you for telling you to shut the f*** up when you would not stop an argument in front of our daughter."  She immediately walked out of the kitchen (where I was giving the bath) and said she was leaving with our daughter.  She didn't leave... .She went and put our kiddo to bed.

I'm feeling completely insane.  It's like I'm messed up in the head from all of the drama from my fiancee, and now I have new fears of abuse allegations from my obviously good-intentioned mental health/legal team.

I suppose I just need to breathe, but if you think I'm going off the rails here, please let me know.

PS: FWIW, the moment described above happened at a time when, earlier in the day, I told her that I had phone meetings at work from 9:30 to 1:30 and would be unavailable during that time.  She texted me around 10:30 and said she needs a loan from me to take a class and that she needs to register right away.  I told her that I needed to hold off on discussing until 1:30.  She then sent a flurry of texts about how I'm never there for her.  I told her that I'd push back my 11:30 meeting by 5 minutes to talk briefly, which led to more texts from her about how I never make time for her when it's important.  I had a feeling that she was going to come to my office, so I left the office and went to the Starbucks down the street.  About 30 minutes later, she sends a text saying, "We're at your office for lunch, but the door is locked.  I'm worried."  SHE KNEW I WAS IN MEETINGS UNTIL 1:30!  I told her I was at Starbucks (big mistake... .I need to learn to ignore/lie better?), and asked her to not come as I was in a conference call.  Of course, she shows up and tells me that she needs to talk immediately because our baby needs to get home to take a nap.

Thanks for reading... .  Felt so good to get this out!

Hi Aiming,

I'm glad you have retained a lawyer (although I'm not happy for the reason). I recommend getting as much info. as you can from him/her regarding potential abuse accusations. Sadly, it sometimes happens when emotions escalate. I really hope it won't happen in your case.

Practicing good communication (https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict) skills can help the situation, especially if your wife is feeling stressed by what she may feel is an impending abandonment.

Have you seen this thread?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=140947.0;all

It will give you some insight in to what others here have experienced. Again, it's not a given. When emotions are high, though, it can be really hard to remember to stay centered.

One step at a time. We're here for you.

heartandwhole

Hi,
I've been a lurker on these forums for a while.

I felt compelled to sign up and respond to your post. Suffice to say - Alarm bells are deafening.

You are not going off the rails. You are experiencing temporary insanity. That is what happens to people in BPD relationships.
Not so long ago - I was at exactly the point you are at now psychologically. I believed I was a complete mess.
Truth is, you will recover - but only once you cut contact. That's probably the hardest thing to accept.
Unfortunately, doing the right thing often means doing the hardest thing.

In response to your original question, Yes, a counsellor I was seeing - his final words to me were -
"You need to get away from this woman. I'm warning you, I have seen it before - if she cannot have you, she is going to destroy you"

Ultimately, I did not feel he was helping me in the way I needed - too many platitudes and not enough specifics, so I chose a different counsellor to help me with the recovery process [who is outstanding], but I cannot deny the original counsellor was accurate in his assessment.

By the end of the relationship

- Fake pregnancy claims and threatened suicide in a very convincing manner
- Went to police, accused me of domestic violence (police did little to help me)
- Following day, asked me on FB to take her back 7 times, to which I said No, No, No, No, No, No, No, - to which she replied 'well, it's in my interest to continue pressing charges then, isn't it?' (my previous ex of 9 years and my ex before that of 3 years both wanted to provide character witness on my behalf - the relationship with my xBPDgf lasted 126 days!)
- 2 months after the relationship had ended and 1 month of NC, she was passenger in a car driven at me, at high speed - in a shopping car park (reported to the police, police did little to help me)
- 4 months after the relationship ended and 3 months of NC, she had been stalking me, had painted my replacement black (who she had overlapped with me and contracted an infection), 'accidentally' bumped into me & was now attempting to get me back.
[I didn't even bother to report the stalking to the police - face it, if you're Male, you're not going to be taken seriously ex-ante and possibly even ex-post]
- Just last week she was attempting to smear me on Facebook/Instagram

So yes, I could have ended up in jail, or dead. I was very lucky.

I have a private picture album on Facebook, shared with only very specific friends, which contains screenshots of some of the abuse and threats and so on. This is primarily in case anything does happen me in the future - I can't rule that out.

Now while I would say that my ex seems to have been an outlier with regard to the attempted hit'n'run - She had strong narcissistic and antisocial traits -  but the other stuff is almost part of the BPD template.

There were no children involved, but I would almost certainly expect child sexual abuse allegations to be coming your way.
You need to prepare immediately.
.
.
.


So here is the ugly truth... .unless my ex had accused me of Domestic Violence, there is a high probability I would have stayed in the relationship. The FOG was intense. After that point - it was choose between my family or her, and I chose my family.
In fact, despite everything - I took her back twice, briefly, in secret after the domestic violence allegation, as I bought into her lies and her sob stories about having nowhere to live and staying in a hostel. She was the best manipulator I ever encountered in my life. It was incredible. She built up incredible feelings of toxic guilt and shame in me.
Her family have essentially disowned her, or she them, and her sister didn't seem in the least bit surprised by the suicide threats - she was just like - 'yea, cut contact'.


Even still, after the false allegations, I didn't want to abandon her and tried to remain friends for 1 month, asked her to try DBT. Deep down, I hoped somehow it could return to the sheer bliss of the first 2 months.
It was the exact same pattern every time - 1 day of lucidity espousing love and forgiveness, followed by a day of being blindsided by inexplicable accusations, shaming & a level of nastiness I had never even conceived possible from an enemy, not to mind someone who claims to love you!

All my life - I've been a very sensible/boring and responsible person.
If a friend told me my story as their own, and asked for my advice - I would think they have lost to mind to stay in such a situation... .but to take them back twice! Temporary Insanity!
(In fact, my best friend described it as 'psychological warfare'

But... .honestly - BPD relationships are like Vietnam - unless one has experienced it for themselves, one simply cannot relate or understand. Extricating yourself is the thing you most urgently need to do, while simultaneously feeling like the most repulsive thing you could do.
It was the most traumatic experience of my entire life. To be idolised, then devalued. To think you've met 'the one', then a few months later she's 'the one trying to run you over'. The triangulation, gaslighting, cheating, manipulation, splitting, projection, passive-aggression and explosive rages.

I've only recently gotten to the point of forgiveness.
I have 'de-normalised' all of that which I had 'normalised'. I look back at my temporary insanity (at one stage, she asked me to apologise to the cat for scaring him) and even still, while I accept it, I find it difficult to process that, that is part of my life and my story. It feels surreal.

Right now - you are in the cauldron. It's horrible, because if you thought it was bad until now, it's only going to get a lot worse before it gets better I suspect.

I hope you are able to take the advice to prepare yourself for all possibilities, and get the hell out as fast as possible. Recognise the manipulation for what it is. If they didn't treat you right during the relationship, they are not going to suddenly change their ways. They can't.

I couldn't take the advice. But I felt obliged to warn you, because you're entering into the most psychologically devastating part of the BPD relationship template.

I really hope you will be as lucky as I was.

Thanks so much, heartandwhole.

I really appreciated the communication skills reminder and used it this evening to prevent another storm.  Also appreciate the link to the board on abuse allegations.

Thanks tons.

infjEpic, it sounds like you've been through so much pain, learning, and growth.  Thanks so much for sharing your experiences and wisdom with me -- and for shifting from "lurker" to participant!