BPDFamily.com

so I split up with my gf and she moved about 5 hour drive away from me.

we text everyday and she says she loves me often and wants to work towards coming back to me but does not want to commit to a timeframe. when I mention meeting up or discussing when she wants to come back, she says I'm pressuring her and withdraws from the conversation. however if I say il give her space and not talk for a while she gets upset and says she wants the contact.

She has made it clear we are still boyfriend and girlfriend but we are on a break from living together.

she no longer calls me cute pet names. she makes me wait a long time for text replies (they were instant during the relationship) she just seems more robotic. she no longer asks how I am doing or what I have been up to but just talks about herself.

she has have a surgery coming up next week which she is nervous about so maybe she is preoccupied with thoughts of that. she also seems to have become a workaholic.

my question is. do you think she no longer likes me and is just leading me on, or do you think she sees me a different way temporally and is just trying to like me again, if so how can I get her to lower her guard and help her to along the path to getting back together. any advice would be helpful the whole situation is agonising for me.

Hello Steve,

I read your recent posts and I think I get the gist of the situation.

I'd encourage you to take a step back and try to look at the situation as objectively as possible.  Re-read your post here...  She's moved away.  She's not as responsive as she's been in the past.  Responses are not personal, interested in you - you said robotic.  She keeps the focus on herself.  Is that a fair summary of the situation?

You're clearly not comfortable with this - which is understandable. And you want to do something about it - that's why you're asking for advice here.

I'll offer this:  The situation you describe fits the description of "breadcrumbing" and can occur with "monkey branching" - breadcrumbing is when one partner wants to keep the other as an available option, so they leave a trail of indications that there's still intent or at least interest... monkey branching is where one partner is reaching for a new relationship, but doesn't fully let go of the current relationship (or "branch") until the new one is firmly in grasp...   

We often hear about these patterns when BPD and/or NPD are in the mix.

I understand you want her back.  And given that pwB/NPD often cycle in and out of relationships, it's possible you'll get your shot... 

You said you split with her.  Why was that?  And at some point you changed your mind and now you want her back.  Why is that?

You said you split with her, then she moved away, now she says that you're still bf-gf.  If you split with her and she moved away, how is it possible you're still bf-gf?  Please fill us in. 

To answer your question about "lowering her guard" and getting back together...  if this was a "normal" / healthy relationship, I would be supportive during the surgery and recovery and I would not push to affirm relationship status or put any focus on myself during this time. Instead, I'd watch carefully how she responds to support, freely given - with nothing expected in return.

If practical for you, and helpful to her, you might even ask if there's anything you can do - anything you can bring - and listen carefully to the response. Does she express appreciation, or is the immediate response more like avoidance?  That should tell you a lot.

Listen to your gut as you go through this over the next week or two.

Good luck.

Thankyou so much for your response

yes your summery is accurate, I would say her texts have become a little warmer over the last few days.

I understand about the monkey branching and bread crumbing, that is a possibility. If I ever found out for sure she had been with other guys I would no longer want her back as that would be a hard boundary for me.

We text back and forth about 6-10 times per day but when we were in a long distance relationship in the beginning it was about 50 -100 per day.  I must say however she works now and didn't at the beginning but still it doesn't seem right. she shuts down if I talk about the relationship. setting a date to see each other and there is nothing flirtatious at all (extreme opposite of the beginning).

She started a business in which I funded but it failed. it was a clothing business and I found out she was selling used underwear and pictures to make it look like the business was doing well. she was very ashamed of the business not working so I think she did this to make it look like it was working. she pre emtively split with me. we got back together for 2 weeks but I was a bit traumatised as I thought the pics I found were for another guy and not the sale of the underwear and I was a little paranoid which let to the next split.

last weekend I went to visit her, we had a night out and a day out, which was nice but I said I was sad in the house we lived in together and was considering moving, I said I was selling it as she wasn't my girlfriend anymore, she said no we are still together just taking a break from living together. I want to work towards me coming back.she started crying and wanted to go home as she said she feels embarrassed and on the way to the taxi she said "im sorry I just go through these cycles".

I saw her the next day, when I dropped her off at home, I said goodbye to her and the dog and I said to the dog, I hope I see you again, she said 'of course you will" then I went for just a hug and she went for a kiss, then we hugged and she held me very tightly and said she will miss me. you can understand why I am getting such mixed signals.

I have helped her in a few ways and she did show appreciation.

im just struggling a lot and im unsure where I stand but I don't dare ask her as she shuts down

I think EyesUp is dead-on accurate; she loves you, yet she's also keeping you are arm's length as she pursues other opportunities.  Maybe that doesn't mean another relationship, but it's highly unfair to you regardless and it doesn't allow you to heal.

The part about selling panties with photos included makes me extremely worried and I'm not sure I buy that story.  Maybe it's true, maybe not.  More likely, it's complicated and there's a hint of truth in there built around a larger deception.

When I split with my BPD ex, she said so many things that I wanted to understand.  But over time I've come to realize that she was disordered and saying what she felt in that moment only.  Often that didn't reflect her true feelings since her emotions were changing by the minute. 

It's like buying an ice cream cone with Rocky Road thinking that you love the chocolate, hate the marshmallow, and are really torn if you like the nuts or not.  It's really complicated to a BPD as they try to work through all their emotions and keep looping around in circles (which she told you she's doing).

I wish you luck, regardless what you decide to do.  And I hope you'll take this time apart to focus more on your own needs, your own mental health.  You've been through a lot and need some time to heal, to find the real you once again.  So be a little selfish with your free time, get back out there and pursue some of your favorite hobbies with friends or whatever you enjoy doing.  That's the type of stuff that allows you to heal.

For communication, you have no choice but to go at her pace.  Don't push too hard since you already know that she'll flee.  But at the same time, it's okay to share your feelings for her and validate what she's going through.  This is a process similar to a marathon...don't try to turn it into a sprint or you'll burn out.  That's why the focus must be on yourself during this time.

Thanks for the response pook

maybe it is part of a larger deception, she did offer to prove it by showing me the transactions.

she has a surgery next week that she is really worried about, she has body dysmorphia and wants to get her breasts re shaped. im wondering if after that is done she might go back to normal once the stress of that is over. or on the other hand she is monkey branching and wants to do that first for the new guy. I guess one way or another I will soon find out.

my plan is to ask her to go on a vacation with me or come and visit me for a week once she is healed and see what she says. she has already indicated she would like that but it could easily be a lie. if she does great I will take it from there. if not I think its time to walk away. as much as I love her I can tolerate lies, deception and possible cheating in my life.

my mental health is shot to smithereens right now, im struggling with everyday life and as much as it will worsen the pain, walking away may be hard but the best option in the long run. im just so scared as I hate being alone and any future relationship will feel hollow after this.

Hi, reading the replies from pook and EyesUP, I wanted to add one or two more things:


Even i had doubts when i read this in your previous replies, but didn't say anything. I remember, long back, some 15yrs ago, we were just out of high school. I caught him smoking weed (probably his 1st time). You won't believe the kind of stories he made around it to prove me wrong and he was very convincing too. Drugs were a total no-no for me, totally against what i can accept. Later on, I still found that he really did it. I am not saying this is true for you too, but just be careful.

Secondly,


I have seen you mention this, about she being hypersexual before, but not anymore. In some cases, for BPD, this change is seen, maybe a part of their lack of self identity. Jerold J Kreisman had mentioned this in his book if i can remember, mostly about sexual identity. My husband was "not-so-sexual" in the beginning (he was bf back then) then all of a sudden hypersexual, which made me very very confused as to why this sudden change, then again now he is totally 'non-sexual', which is so bothering.


 I cant really agree with this more. This is very very important. I regret not doing this which is why,  over time, i have become so very depressed. I am trying my best now, its really difficult though.

thank you for everything guys. im so depressed I think it might be best to put and end to this toxic relationship and deal with the pain of losing her. I know deep down even if I get her back this kind of thing will repeat.

Do you guys think that if I just sent a text saying

 "I can't do this anymore and I want to walk away now. take care"

she would respond by coming back strong or do you think it would push her away forever?

I don't know if ive done the right thing or not but I can't take the pain any more, I just sent her this -


I understand you are going through a lot and I want to be there for you. And I will be. I want to better understand what you are going through so I can help, I love you more than anything. Ive noticed that or conversations no longer have any depth, no romance, no real connection. You tell me you love me and want to work towards being together but I get the feeling you don’t mean this. Every time I mention anything about seeing each other or anything about the direction of our relationship, you close down and get distant. You never call me nice names like you used to. I don’t feel valued. I know I’m am a rare person and I have a lot to give, I don’t deserve to feel that way. If you can find it in yourself to help me understand what you are thinking to help me see your perspective that would help. I will listen without criticism or judgement. Or if we could set some kind of timeline or roadmap to getting where we need to be that would be helpful for me. I think my needs are not being considered in our relationship and I need to seriously think about the effect it is having on me. I don’t blame you for any of this, you can’t help the way you feel xx

Hii.. i think it's a bold step, must have been hard for you but i think you've taken a very positive stand here. You have used 'I' statements, which is the correct way.. sometimes it's best to be direct in what you feel and express it..

regarding your previous msg regarding breaking up, i would not take any hurried decision. I understand from your posts that you are emotionally down at this point, which is natural I guess given your situation. I would wait till her post op recovery. If she avoids being upfront even after that then i would think of coming to a firm decision. In between, try this kind of msgs(like the one you sent) time to time to keep her reminded (so that she sticks to her words) . Also, in the meantime, i would work a lot on my mental health if i were you, that's what I too did back when i was going thru my situation in 2015. Because, i figured that in a positive scenario, if he decided to resume the relationship too, i needed to be very firm and assertive otherwise I won't be able to place or stick to any boundaries. In my case, i couldn't get any proper therapist here in my country(but the SSRIs helped a great deal) but since you said you have found a good one, work with him to improve your mental health and work on figuring out boundaries. Hang in there!

thanks lost hope. I am sooooo scared now, I'm worried incase she sees it as abandonment and tells me it's over. I'm worried incase I made a mistake now and that I won't get the chance to wait until after the surgery.

I hope you are doing ok yourself

You didn't make any mistake by expressing your needs and feelings. What she would do is not in ur hand but atleast you are trying your best. I hope everything will be alright. Update us if you can. All the best :)

she sent a long message back explaining how she feels, I won't publish the whole thing.

key takeaways

- I still love you but I feel my mental health is in decline

- im trying not to think of anything and just throw myself into work

- I want to be with you but I equally feel the desire to be alone, I can't explain it its a confusing mindset for me to be in

- I still want to visit after my surgery and go on holiday and work towards being together

- I feel I can't be like I was before, I just don't know where that is gone and I don't understand why

- you are a special person and you do deserve to feel valued and im so sad I can't do that right now, im sorry I don't know what to do

also

- I feel bad to make you feel this way but somehow I just don't have it im me to be who I was before, I so confused as to why

This seems like a very well put msg. My guy never said anything like this back then. So I feel your girl might really be struggling with her mental health. Maybe she isn't really "breadcrumbing" or "monkey branching", like my guy did back then. Maybe she really need some time alone to figure out what's going on regarding her mental health. BDW, you said your therapist suggested that she might have BPD, did you also feel some of the traits matching? which are the most prominent ones? Also, have you tried asking her what she plans to do regarding her mental health, since she doesn't want therapy?

She shows every one of the 9 traits in some way. the fear of abandonment and the dissociation ones are most prominent.

would you be ok if I send you the whole message privately. I don't want to publish it publicly out of respect to her

Okay sure, you can if you wish to..

thank you, I have done so, im still conflicted on staying when she has openly said she can't value me

I'd give her some time regarding this. She said she cant value you right now, that maybe because  she is dealing with a lot and is not being able to be as loving and caring in her communications as before. That may not imply that this is permanent. Also, when a BPD is living apart, they tend to detach. This is possibility their way of dealing with the abandonment fears. They are again back to "normal" when they move in. I would see how she behaves when she has again moved back in and whether or not you are able to bond. Only after this, would I take some major decision regarding the fate of the relationship.

thank you for the advice, however there is no plan for her to move in permanently at the moment just to visit for 1 week and then take a 1 week vacation

@OP,

I agree that putting it on the line was a bold move.

Stepping back, you mentioned that she's having some type of breast augmentation. I hesitate to speculate, but it's easy to understand that there are many reasons to do this - some are reconstructive, others are purely cosmetic. I can't but wonder what her motivation is (no need to respond / go into detail here) because if her mental health isn't great and the procedure is cosmetic... well, you probably see where I'm going with this...  Will she be new and improved after the procedure, and will that give her whatever it is that she feels that she's missing?

Forgive me if this is way off base.

In any case, you put your feelings and wants and needs on the line - and it appears that she provided a relatively open and sincere response. A bit more open-ended than you probably wanted, so things remain a bit up in the air, on her terms, on her undefined schedule - although the procedure is a fairly clear milestone / check point.

How are you feeling about all this?

she suffers with body dysmorphia and does not like the shape and wants the to be different but not larger.

yes I feel I took a gamble.

how do I feel. I love her tremendously and I do want to wait but I find it hard to be openly told she can not value me and for me to to still hang on. however im hoping once the surgery is over she will be less stress and more time together can only give me more introspective on how she is going to be. im feeling mixed emotions of, shame for hanging in on my own self respect, fear that she will never be able to see me the way she did again and relief that she has finally been able to open up to me. also confusion about the whole situation

I am, slightly nervous that she is keeping me hanging on until after the surgery then with her new found confidence she will start to want to meet other guys. she is insanely beautiful now anyway so in all fairness she could have done that anyway but it is a concern. but she does say otherwise so I have no doubt but to give the benefit of the doubt

or if there has been someone else in the picture for a while and she is getting the surgery for, since she announced she wanted the surgery about 4 month before the split he did seem a little more distant than usual but that could have just been because od the way she was feeling about herself, I always made sure to tell her she looked perfect the way she was.

I was a little suspicious that she could have been talking to someone as she started spending a lot of time in the bath and staying up late sometime after I went to bed. I maybe should have mentioned this a long time ago on here.

however we have been FaceTime almost every night so im sure by now she would have went out with this guys. plus she lived in my home for 2 weeks after we split, if there was someone else he would have just came and got her. I would if I was talking to a girl and she was in an uncomfortable situation, I would have just put her up in a hotel or something

My uBPDxw is objectively attractive. She also had dysmorphia-like behaviors. e.g., she hated her teeth, wouldn't smile in pictures, and didn't like being in pictures in general - you'd never notice anything amiss about her teeth unless you're an orthodontist within inches of her face... I could go on...

If you had asked me how I would respond to infidelity, I would have said that it's a game-ender, but when actually presented with the reality of it, I was not prepared and I did a lot of things to try to "save the relationship" and win her back, etc.

When she finally admitted she was having an affair, some of things she said included:
- I didn't know anyone else wanted to PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm) me
- he said a lot of things you never did
- the attention was addictive

I didn't like hearing any of this, or how it came out - but it had the ring of sincerity. I had to accept that she needed a sort of validation that I did not or possibly could not provide. The fact that I accepted her and appreciated her as she was didn't seem to register for her.

In hindsight, it didn't really matter how I felt about her or how I expressed it - what really mattered for her was about how she felt. And the fact is, she often didn't feel good, and my attention, affection, etc., didn't change that.

Like any other relationship, healthy or not, sometimes things don't really click. I was shocked that my unconditional love and commitment didn't seem to register. Big eye opener.

No one can tell you what to do or what's right for you. But if your gf truly has most of the BPD attributes, you should take her at her word when she expresses that she's struggling with her sense of self image / self worth / mental health - which truly is separate and independent from how she feels about you. i.e., she's beautiful to you, but she feels she needs cosmetic surgery...   there's probably nothing you can do to change this. And you're wise to anticipate that she may perceive new attention after the procedure, which she will likely find validating, exciting.

It's hard to be in this position. I wish I could offer more than that.

Have you read about attachment styles?  Possibly worth a look...

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279028.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279028.0)

I haven't been faced with infidelity so I can't say with absolute certainty but I do believe that would be an ender for me.

it is a concern about the validation after the surgery but only a small one. she seems to prefer validation from women, she quickly shuts down men approaching, for example she has a large following on TikTok and its 99% women on there, its a fashion page, she blocks guys. so of course it could be a problem but im feeling that its not my biggest concern. my biggest concern is that she said she want to be with me but equally wants to be alone and doesn't understand her mindset on this, she is confused. also that she can't be the way she was before, she can't understand why but she doesn't know where that person has gone

thanks for the info, I know a lot about attachment styles

she has now left me on seen after good texting for a few days, any advice, should I message again or leave her be?, she said goodnight and I said goodnight back and next day nothing, it was her turn to text

Steve,

Forgive me if this seems too direct or critical, but - Do you have a solid agreement about taking turns?

Either way, my suggestion is:  Don't text.

Step back. Leave it up to her to show you who she is and how she feels. When she does, listen carefully.

No more long messages - especially when she is about to have a procedure. If you want to offer good wishes, fine. Be sincere yet also concise. Make it about her, not about you.

Let the ball drop on her side of the court, and be prepared to wait for a response. She's already told you directly that she's no longer in the old mode of rapid texting anymore.

The fact is, no one here truly knows you - or her - the best we can do is offer general advice - and that advice likely boils down to:  You need to respect what she has shared... If she said that she's not in rapid text mode, don't be surprised that she's not in rapid text mode.

For reference, I also have a gf. Not BPD. I give zero attention to who texted last. We're both busy people. If something is urgent or requires follow up, I communicate accordingly. There is zero score keeping. It's really great to be in a non-BPD relationship...   (don't get me started about my uBPDxw, however...)

As a side note, consider turning off the "read" notification. Very few people use this feature, in my experience. It seems like it's causing you more stress than comfort.  $0.02.

You want something to change - so make the change in yourself. That's all any of us can do.

Hang in there.

thank you for the response

we dont have an official rule about it, jut with it being long distance now this is the first time she has done this.

im at my wits end to be honest, I can't handle the devaluation. im just really struggling to let her go, this is my first bpd breakup and its stripping me of all of my self worth.

what happened to that girl I knew only 4 months ago?

I have two BPDs in my direct family- an ex wife and a daughter.  Both of them were unhappy with their bodies and we know with BPD, self image is a challenge.

My BPD daughter was a skinny teen with big boobs, very sexy.  But after an incident with a boyfriend, she decided that she would rather date girls.  Then, she decided that she was supposed to be born a man, and wanted to transition.  Through many conversations though, she would share that if she was a man then no other man could take advantage of her and she could fight back.  Her story breaks my heart because mental illness really took its toll.  So far, no transitioning...she does at least want a boob reduction though (which we're not against; she never wore bras and it's a clear problem now).

In my kid's mind, a transition would "fix her" and make her feel normal.  But the mental health will remain regardless and it's going to be present in any body type.  That's the lie they deal with; that a cosmetic surgery will make everything feel better.  And it never does long-term.

I want to thank everyone that has helped me on this board. I really saw her true colours today and I just want to let you all know......its over

what happened?

after her giving me messages for the last month or so and making make around 3-6 hours for a reply the whole time, she needed money and was rapid texting and I felt used, and I indirectly called it out about her being available when she needed money. she needed cab money from the airport to her home after her surgery, the conversation went like this -

her-  We're just on our way there, we're in the car xx
me - ok let me know when you get safe back to your nanny's, shall we have a catchup FaceTime tonight? Xx
her - Yeah that sounds good, I should be home by around 6:30- 7 all going well xx
her - Would you mind helping me out with an uber? All I have is left over is in cash but the taxis are way more expensive xx
me - Yeah I'm willing to help you out. Would you be wining to help me by setting some dates for your visit and our vacation tonight? I'm got a busy schedule over the next month and need to plan xx
her - Yeah that sounds good, they're gonna take a couple months to settle in so we're looking at august/ September xx
me -  So I'm not gonna see you for 3-4 months? Xx
her - I meant for the holiday xx
me -: Oh ok, was gonna say I can't wait that long like

[09/05/2025, 11:29:12] me: Oh ok, was gonna say I can't wait that long like

[09/05/2025, 11:29:12] me: Oh ok, was gonna say I can't wait that long like

me: Oh ok, was gonna say I can't wait that long like

why can I only post one line

me: Oh ok, was gonna say I can't wait that long like

basically I said I love how we are connecting and talking a lot, she then said I was manipulating her and playing mind games, etc, saying nasty things even though I sent the money, I told her " I sent the money, I have never felt so pushed away, take care" that was me done at that point, then I got a load of abuse and told we shouldn't talk anymore, I didn't reply and won't

smd, i can hear your frustration. its an unwinnable situation.


thats probably for the best right now. some space and cooling off is always best when emotions are high.

ive caught up with the thread, and i gather theyve been high for some time.

clearly, she is in a mental health crisis. shes emotionally checked out of the relationship due to that. it hasnt been easy for you. youve let her know that. fair.

at some point, though, this became a power struggle, and the two of you are going back and forth, pushing each others buttons, at your wits ends.

neither of you can hear each other through your own pain - and the pain is just piling up on top of itself.

when that happens, somethings gotta give. what that something is, in this case, isnt clear, and ultimately up to you. but the situation, as is, is unsustainable, and is just resulting in more frustration, more hurt, with no sign of resolution.

try to set your frustration and anger aside for just a moment. deep down, what do you really want to see happen here? are you done - is the relationship done? is it too far gone, but too difficult to walk away from? or do you still want to make this work?

I love her, I really do, she has given me the bet 5 years of my life. but I am becoming at peace with the fact what I fell in love with didn't exist and the chance of a real lasting relationship long term is slim. I dont think she will ever get in touch with me to be honest, I don't trust her either.

also she is incredibly beautiful, she really is a head turner, no man could resist her, she is 15/10 hot. she can get any guy she wants so I dont think she will ever contact me again. she has no need for me anymore.

im feeling a lot of relief to not be sitting by the phone waiting for the breadcrumb. half of me want her back but the other half just wants peace.

I really dont know, my mind is a total mess

thats okay.

its a messy situation. lets try to unmess it a little at a time.


why not?

since I caught her lying about selling the underwear online I have been paranoid about so many other things. but im confused as to whether its paranoia or my gut feel. im starting to think she wants to enter the adult industry and that's why she wants the breast surgery. also she works as admin for a company that manages only fans accounts and was getting very close to the owner of the company, I think she is being groomed as she gets showered with praise and has been give lots of promotions very quickly. I also have a gut feel my replacement is in the picture before she left

I once read:  For almost every every insanely attractive person, there's at least one ex that doesn't want to deal with their sh*t anymore...

Be that ex.

It will take time, but you can get there. A key part of the journey is listening to your gut, and your recent posts indicate that you're opening up to yourself more than when you first posted. 

Listen to that inner voice that's focused on you rather than your ex.

Rumination can be tough for any of us, but the good news is that there's a recipe to get through it:

- see a therapist
- go to the gym / be active
- eat right (not too much/too little, focus on nutrition)
- (re)connect with friends and family

What are your plans for the weekend?  Do something for yourself...

thanks eyesup

yes I am doing everything on the recipe list.

ive been spiralling mentally today, it feels like an addiction. ive got my kids this weekend so its hard as one has autism so I am battling through the best I can. im feeling very depressed.

this was our last contact conversation even thuogh I sent her the money she needed

me: I’ve sent it. I’ve never felt so pushed away. Take care
her: Are you surprised you get push back when all I asked for was a favour and I’m being met with mind games from you?
her: Like what do you actually expect?
her: How do you think I feel my own “boyfriend” is pussyfooting around simply helping me out when I ask?
her: After this I don’t think we should talk anymore, I’m literally on my last straw with it all. I’ll send it back when I can go to the bank. Like you tell me you want to work on things and reassure me about stuff but god forbid I ask for a favour when you specifically said I could and I get this in return, just completely unnecessary. You’ve upset me for the last time

disgusting I know but I still feel compelled to get her back, ive been thinking of sending this -

Hi, I hope you are feeling ok and settled. I think yesterday was a big misunderstanding and I apologise for any error on my part. I’m not suggesting we talk regularly again, would you be open to opening up dialogue again in one month’s time once we have had time to process and both be in a better state mentally? I would hate for this to be our new permanent reality, I love you more than anything


I feel weak, I dont know why im compelled to do this

i think it would be a good idea, for right now, to hold off on any action.

your nervous system is running the show here. youre over-correcting in both directions.

lets get centered before we make any moves. let her calm down, let you calm down, and then lets get in touch with values-based actions to proceed with.

what do you think?

thank you onceremoved,

that was a very calming and de escalating post, I needed to hear that, would you suggest I wait a week and see how my feelings are then?

do you think from her message she means it that she doest want to talk again? I didn't really do anything wrong, I just highlighted she is more responsive when she needed a favour, I can see why she got mad I exposed bad behaviour

im glad it helped. calm, centered, values based action is the goal. lets keep at it.


i would suggest getting regulated (centered) before doing anything. whether thats a week or a day, or a month.


smd, i suspect that her own perspective would sharply differ from this. i think thats the heart of the issue here.

communication has broken down. trust is shattered. youre both at your wits end. in a time like that, everything that either of you say will generally only make things worse, because neither of you are hearing, or able to hear the other, through your own hurt and anger.

youre understandably anxious about whether or not she will talk to you again, because you love her, and even though this feels impossible, you just want things to be okay. youre not done; youre hurt, and youre primed for combat. it is hard to think straight in that environment; ive been there.

but you dont want to over-correct right now either. if you send an apologetic message (that youre not sure at the moment you mean), not only will it not be heard (its a 180), but in her own anger, she will probably tell you to stuff it. the best move you can make in a time like this is not to self destruct, or to fuel the fire.

lets work through the big picture issues, the distrust, and see if we can untangle that. it will help give you a better sense of how to navigate this.

thank you so much for your support, I really am struggling mentally. I dont know what I would do without you guys, im so alone and in pain, thank you so so much

if youd like, lets talk about this, and the ongoing conflict. while getting centered is the immediate goal, theres a lot to think about, and think through.



this part - the selling used underwear isnt clear to me. can you clarify that first? whats the context here?

the thing that started this whole problem was I saw raunchy pictures and videos on her iPad. they were like the kind of things she used to send me in the early days, I thought she was sending them to another guy. when I confronted her about it she said she was selling used underwear on a website and they were advertising media to sell them and she was talking directly to the guys that were buying them. but looking back I dont know if I believe what she was saying, maybe that was a cover story and she was sending to other guys. she started opening a lot of time in the bath so I thought it was then she was talking to him. one time she was in the bath and I could see she was online on WhatsApp. each time a approached the bathroom door it went offline. as if she was going off the app as I approached. however she always left the door unlocked so that makes me think she wasn't. however one time I opened the door and she seemed to have quickly switch to tik Tok so I wasn't sure. I didn't confront her about it as things were already tense as I was paranoid about everything after finding the pictures

there are three things that stand out to me here.

1. her looks are a point of both security, and insecurity for you.

on one hand, its nice to have a hottie for a girlfriend. it feels good to have that attention on you. on the other hand, you want to protect it. you feel threatened by the stuff youve seen, and youre scanning for signs of either commitment, or straying.

2. thats all really part of a bigger problem: youre in a long distance, and somewhat ambiguous relationship. that can be destabilizing, and create insecurity, and inconsistency. worse, it sounds like there has been lots of making up and breaking up.

so naturally your mind wanders, gets "paranoid". wants signs of consistency and security.

3. the two of you do not agree on the pacing of this relationship, or what you want the relationship to be.

you see signs of wavering commitment from her. fewer pet names. shes busy with her business, youre unsure about who shes associating with.

so, again, youre pushing for security. you want her to take steps to secure the relationship. you dont want the uncertainty.

in doing that, she feels pressured - it pushes her away. you take steps to back off (probably to a greater degree than shes asking for). she doesnt like that either.

its like a great big game of tug of war.

what do you think? does that sound like an accurate/fair description of the conflict here?

yes that seems accurate, to me, with a few things to mention

her looks were never a insecurity before, throughout our relationship I was always secure, she made me feel that way, when that shifted it was because I found out about a lie. and then even more so when I started learning about bpd and the possible promiscuous nature.

yes the long distance is now a huge problem for my security level

yes I do feel she is pulling away and im trying to achieve more certainty, that is my hang up as I have anxiety about uncertainty in anything I care about.

yes you are correct, anytime a mention not keeping in contact she has said not lets keep in contact, until this last time she has said she wants no contact, that is what has scared me, this feels different, maybe I pushed her away for good.

but I also worry that in keeping minimal contact with me without any affection, she is keeping me around as a backup option, maybe I am being paranoid but its how it feels to me

Hey Stevemcduck,

Was just reading your last few posts and something reminding me of something that happened to me with my ex the last time we broke up back in 2021.

She asked me for a favor, to take an amount of money from our joint account for a night out. I replied saying yes of course and in the same message poured my feelings out and asked to talk.

She then responded by saying that I was bombarding her and by doing that almost proved to her that I wasn't ready to talk about anything.

It's really hard for me at the moment to stay centered as once removed suggests but I think they're bang on the money.

It's really important to remain strong, look after ourselves and push on with our lives as best we can whilst contacting them only if necessary and not to pour feelings out etc

I really feel for you as I'm going through something similar.

We're in this together man. Here if you need to vent.

id agree with all of that, too.

there are some real things to think about here. the anxiety, nervousness, insecurity, whatever one wants to call it, is valid in a non-secure situation.

long distance relationships can be problematic in that they contribute to both parties growing apart, even when they dont want to. because they have different routines, different lifestyles, different social circles. its really hard to remain connected even when both people share the goal, and are deliberate and intentional about it.

so there may be some of that. it would explain why some of these things, her business dealings, the people shes surrounded by, would contribute to your feelings - it might feel foreign, or threatening.

at the same time, yes, some of your actions, while well intentioned, have been like gasoline on a fire. so have hers.

what is true about bpd is that they generally dont deal with anxiety or neediness very well. why? because they are pathologically needy people. one pathologically needy person in a relationship just doesnt leave much room in a relationship for two people.

and setting bpd aside, shes clearly going through some stuff. shes got the surgery. her business. pushing for security or reassurance in that sort of situation can feel like obligation, or pressure. i dont need to tell you that; shes said as much.

so at a certain point, if you (or the relationship in general) is a source of pressure, a person in her position might feel the need to cut off that source of pressure. men, often times, in our anxiety, can push women away. ive done it at a serial level  *)

i dont know if shes pushed away for good. she may be, not unlike you, a little all over the place right now, and shes just disconnecting from the stress. not responding, for now, gives her the opportunity to get back to baseline.

but the fact remains that a lot of damage has been done over time. it will take a lot to undo that - not just one message or even one conversation - and thats if the option is available.

which brings you to a crossroads. a decision point. one that we cant decide for you, but we can help.

you know her best. you know the relationship best. how damaged is it? can you foresee a situation in which you trust her? in which she trusts you?

do you trust (not necessarily as of today, but in general) that the relationship is a priority to her, or that youve drifted apart? is this a big rocky part in the road, with light at the end of the tunnel, or has the situation remained as it has because youve both avoided walking away from a dead relationship?

is this thing saveable? are you prepared to drill down and do what it will take to save it, if it is? or are you spent?

i dont know the answers to those questions. they are rhetorical. you dont have to know the answers either, at least not right this moment. theyre the focal point, though. the big picture part of all of this that you need to grapple with and reconcile.

it could be that youve both made mistakes, and have regrets, but that theres no going back. it could be that this was the ultimate stress test, and that with support, you could come back even stronger. but there are real hurdles here that dont necessarily have a quick fix, like the long distance.


reality test this. does she need a backup option? if the relationship has a large amount of ongoing conflict in it, what incentive does she have to deal with that, just for the sake of keeping it as a backup option?

Thanks redbeard, feel free to dm me and we can have a man to man about our issues.

And thank you Once removed. you are really helping me to stabilise and look at this situation objectively and with clarity. I appreciate you beyond measure.

Im unsure of the level of damage, everything that happed prior to her saying to stop talking seemed to have been accepted as we were looking to re connect, so the main thing is this situation that I called her out when asking for money, that is now the major sticking block, I think its possible to move past but this is the first time she has severed contact, there has been times in the past we argued and I suggested to not talk anymore and she always said she wanted to keep trying but this time she didn't, thats a first for us.

I think it is possible for us to trust each other again

I dont think our relationship was dead and we were scared to walk away.  and I think the relationship was a priority to her in a way but not to the same level as me. I have maybe been too pushy, but I struggle to put myself in her head, my idea of a relationship is to work on struggles together not run away. I see now I should have given more space and been cooler about everything but in my desperation, confusion and fear I was needing reassurance from her, which she did give but in a manner that I was unsure I believed, as she was acting very different that she ever did in the relationship so I felt like she wasn't being genuine, I didn't realise to the extent of her mental health issues until much later.

I can't speak for her, but from my point of view It is saveable, I am prepared to do what needs to be done. I need guidance. I would appreciate your help greatly, you seem very grounded and I need that right now.

The long distance is temporary, she had said she wanted to move back in with me at some point before she said not to talk to her.

I see what you mean about the backup option, something does feel off to me though, maybe she just didn't want to be nasty to me so kept me hanging, but maybe she did want to get back with me and ive messed it up.

based on what I have said here, what would you advise I do going forward?

thanks again, I can't thank you enough

try putting yourself in her head. what do you think about what she said about the money issue here:

I think she just expected me to give her the £100 without question and immediately, there was no prior conversation about this.

she got angry as when were discussing it there were lot of rapid texts about it and I said this

me- I’m just trying to help you, I’ll bank transfer it if you would rather take the risk. By the way I like when we text and you are responsive like this, can we do more of that going forward? Xx
her: I’m usually working so I can’t guarantee that, I feel like there’s an underlying tone here
her: Don’t worry about it I’ll just figure something out myself x
me: I understand you feel there is an underlying tone but I’m just expressing I like when we talk like this, I’m sad you have stopped with the kisses on the messages and taken it this way I’m literally on my bank now to help you xx

her: Because I asked you for a simple favour as my boyfriend and I’m being met with unnecessary hurdles and sly disguised comments, I’ve been more responsive with you for days now when I’ve been awake, I know the way you weed around things, if it’s that much of a bother to you don’t worry about it

I think she said I was playing mind games but that was projection, it is her that plays mind games

if you reject what she says out of hand, and counter it with an accusation (its not me, its you, i am rubber, you are glue), how can you put yourself in her head? how can conflict be resolved?

set aside whether or not you agree with what she said. agreement doesnt matter, in this context.

what do you think she was she communicating to you about how she felt?

I think in her head she thought that I should have given in to what she wanted without question, and I should not have tried to get anything in return, she thought I was attacking her for saying I liked the communication and I was being sarcastic.

also maybe she realised that what I was saying was correct but did not want to have that outlined to her and she felt bad and responded with anger

I was in a way as I felt used and I was sad she couldn't talk to me like that normally only when she wanted something, so I said what I said, I wish I hadn't know but in that moment I felt like an atm machine

okay. good effort.


you felt used when she asked for money. that makes sense. youre wanting commitment, reassurance, consistency.


do you think she might have felt that the money came with strings attached?

yes absolutely

she thought I would just give it to her, which I would have, I just highlighted I liked that kind of responsive texting and asked for more going forward

context is everything.

shes just out of surgery. needs money for a cab.

i dont think most people particularly like asking for money. it can trigger shame or embarrassment.

so she asked for it, but what she got probably sounded to her like:

"sure, ill give it to you. but i want you to do something for me. more pet names, more responsiveness; reassure me, and also, give me some dates for your visit."

can you see how that might feel to someone in her position? the concern wasnt about how her surgery went. it wasnt about supporting her; thats what she was asking you for.

in your hurt, and need, in that moment, you looked past her, looked past what she was communicating, and asked her for, essentially, more reassurance.

whether you intended it or not, the message she received was: i need support right now, and i cant ask my boyfriend for it, without strings attached. i dont feel supported, i feel obligated.

im sure your perspective would differ from hers. you have your reasons. from your end, you were just trying to state more of what youd like going forward. if anything, you probably felt like this was positive reinforcement, "hey, i like this, more of this please".

but when two people (both of you) are locked in conflict, competing over your needs, speaking out of hurt and anger, and generally not hearing each other...any of that nuance is likely to get lost. all either of you hear is "i need you to do more".

fair? whether you agree with her perspective or not (you have your own reasons for your own motivations), can you put yourself in her shoes, and understand why she might have felt that way?

Thank you for outlining it like that, I can completely take on board what you are saying and I understand, where do you think I should go from here?

think values-based action.

what do your values tell you to do?

if it were me, and i agreed with my own assessment?

id apologize, sincerely, for what i felt guilty of, and id do it with no expectation to how she'll react. however, id be mindful about it, and id apologize carefully. let me explain.

apology:

id tell her, in simple terms: "hey. i really lost my cool there. you were looking to me for support, and in the moment, i was thinking more about myself. im really sorry. i hope youre recovering okay from surgery, id like to hear more about how youre doing when youre ready."

mind you, im using the kind of language that i would use. put it in the language that the two of you use, that she will recognize as coming from you, in a way that is sincere. you can practice here before you send it; its a delicate apology that can easily be thrown off with the wrong word or two.

what it does:

it says "i get it.". it takes ownership of your behavior. it says, loud and clear "im putting the gloves down. no more fighting.", in a way that she can feel it and trust it. it will catch her off guard.

what it doesnt do: it doesnt perpetuate the fight. it doesnt JADE. it doesnt point fingers at her behavior.

but it also, importantly, goes out of its way not to look needy. it doesnt ask where you stand. it doesnt ask for reassurance. it doesnt even assume she will answer. because if you do those things, theres a good chance it will look wishy-washy, and she will shut it down. it doesnt stick your neck on the line, it just says "i regret my behavior". its an apology, an olive branch, and its warm. no more, no less.

you should know, going into it, that you may not immediately get the response youre hoping for. she may not answer. or she may let you have it, and blow off some more steam.

if she does, and youre able to stand there, absorb it, keep your cool, it will be powerful. it will also, likely, be very difficult to do. the temptation may be to argue, or to try to save things. dont. resist the urge. just listen. if you do that, she will soften her stance. itll show her the cool, calm, confident, upbeat guy that she fell for in the first place, or an even more mature version of him.

you dont want to actually say this, but its "youre so cute when youre angry" energy. it doesnt take things personally, or get bent out of shape. thats the message behind it.

but you should be prepared, because i know it takes a lot of guts to apologize in a time like this, and if she comes out swinging (she may not; hopefully she doesnt), it will hurt, and you may feel tempted, in your hurt, to let her have it back. its just something that happens sometimes, when two people have been fighting increasingly hard for a long time. one may not be ready to make up before they blow off some more steam. if it happens, take it in stride, and thats all it will have to be.

thanks so much for that advice, would you do it now or wait for more time to pass?

I would say it like this

hi. I wasn't at my best in our last conversation. you were looking to me for support, and in the moment, i was thinking to push for my own needs. im sorry. i hope you are feeling ok after your operation, id like to hear more about how you are recovering  when you are ready

it was 2 days ago we had that last conversation

that sounds great to me. if its how you feel, if it reflects your values, and youre prepared for whatever happens, id send it as soon as youre ready.

hold back the instinct to react to whatever happens. bring it here, and we can help.

il send it tomorrow sometime as its late, I won't respond to anything until I consult here

im not sure how to explain it but im feeling a weird kind of fear to send this message

okay.

what sort of fear? whats it telling you?

I think maybe that I won't get a reply and I will feel bad, I face the fear and sent the message, I will report what our if anything happens, thanks for your help so far

understandable. and real. lets talk it through.

if you put yourself in her shoes for a moment, you can see why that might happen, initially, but doesnt have to be the end of the world.

if youre pissed off at someone, you might still be pissed off after they apologize. you might want to express your anger by letting them wait. or you might not want to talk to them at all. or you might recognize that youre pissed off, and know that its better to wait until youve calmed down, to reply.

any of those things could happen. it doesnt mean the reply wont come.

or, worse. she could still be angry, and tell you to  :cursing: off. that doesnt have to be the end of the world, either. weve probably all received an apology, still been pissed, and told them where to shove their apology.

if she does that, and you take it in stride, see it for what it is, and dont lash out back, she will be surprised. she will say "wait a minute, this is real. something new has come over him.". she will soften. anybody would.

so, in terms of your fear, you can be prepared for either of those things, and know what to do. be patient. be cool. dont over-react. the apology was a great first move, but it doesnt necessarily, immediately, resolve everything.

yes you are right, there is no risk of me over reacting to whatever comes, I am able to remain composed, il keep you posted

thanks again

my message sent at least, so I know im not blocked, which I was half expecting

hi I have got a response

"you can't say this to me after asked your sister to remove me from your family chat, leave me alone"

I was at a family bbq and said it looks like we split up for good and my sister said shall I remove her from the family chat, I said yes. in all fairness it wasn't a nasty move at all just I thought it would be appropriate seem as what was happening between up, the group has my sister and parents in it.

any advice would be appreciated

she actually said "please leave me alone"

it wasnt a nasty move, but it was a reactive move. and it sent a message.

and it clearly stung.

this is one of the possible outcomes we talked about. shes still pissed, so she sees your apology, and it feels, to her, hollow.

see it for what it is. understand it. its just a wounded person talking out of hurt.

youve done very well by not reacting to it. because now, you can catch her off guard.

whats the first thing that comes to mind that you want to respond with? doesnt matter if its good or bad, we're just practicing here, but whats the first thing youd be inclined to respond with?

my first response in mind is -

I thought you had broken up with my the time you said you didn't want to talk anymore so I thought it would be appropriate to remove you from that group. if that is not the case I am confused. I dont even know if we are still together now or not. I think it's clear you don't want me. if you dont want me to connect you again I guess I must accept that. you were truly loved and accepted for who you are. im so sorry you have to go through the struggles you do and I wanted to be there for you. if your state of mind ever allows you to see that all I have ever wanted was for us to enjoy our lived together and be happy, my line will always be open to you. if not and you truly do want me to walk away, I guess this is goodbye, I wish you the very best. im going to miss you

okay.

your first instinct is to react. to defend yourself. to JADE.

which is understandable. its been a highly stressful situation. you fear her slipping away.

the problem is that in this case, it works against you. sending that message would invalidate the apology you made. it would send the message that you thought what you did was right. it would push her away.

what if you first regulated yourself, and then responded in a new, values based way? something like (not necessarily these exact words):

"youre right. i lost my cool. i made sense of it at the time, but i can see that it was hurtful. i can understand if you dont want to talk to me right now, or need space. i wont interfere with that. if, or when, you decide you want to talk, ill be here".

this doesnt get into who was right or wrong. it simply owns your own behavior, the part you regret. it also doesnt overreact, or take her "leave me alone" as "goodbye forever". it says "i get why youre mad, and i can take it, and i can give you space".

it doesnt respond to her defensiveness with more defensiveness. it says "i come in peace, ive put down the weapons, and im safe to come to, when youre ready."

you are both used to this - you are both used to not being heard, and not hearing each other, and reacting, and speaking in hurt, and thats been the cycle - the one you want to break. shes doing that right now. if she doesnt get argumentativeness, or justification from you, like shes expecting? shes gonna be shocked. shes gonna be impressed. its gonna look confident, mature, and centered. she wont know what the hell to do with it.

You are a master with words, thank you, again, I will send my version of that exact message and report back

well its been 2 days now, she opened and read the message last night but no reply. I know its early but would your advice be to just move on now and forget and if a reply comes great or would you consider waiting a set amount of time and trying again?

hi SMD -- adding in a thought to the great discussion already happening.


It's interesting to me that the first message you sent got an angry response fairly quickly. Something probably feels different to her here, like once removed hypothesized.

Not sure if you've seen the discussion in this thread (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=3060191.0) -- this is something I learned from a class on BPD I took last year:


To us, two days may feel like an eternity. We might be able to re-regulate in a few hours.

I'm wondering if she's regulating back to a baseline, and it's just taking longer than "expected."

That would bring the question back to:

how can you manage how you're feeling -- how can you exit the "all or nothing" thinking pattern of "it's been two days, I should probably just never speak to her again" and find a more centered place here.

Extreme thinking: it's been two days, it's over, she's gone forever, I should just move on now and forget her

Balanced thinking: it's been two days, she may be re-regulating -- I'm not in her head so I can't know for sure, how can I take care of my own anxieties so I'm at my best for decision making, whatever my decision might be

...

any thoughts about finding some balance?

Thankyou Kelis

Yes I have been keeping up with the discussion you mentioned.

I am trying so hard to manage my own thinking but I am struggling a lot. I feel fear, grief and anxiety all of the time.

One thing I find strange is that I have read that some characterises of BPD are, fear of abandonment, feelings of emptiness, difficulty with emotional regulating and reckless behaviours. why is it now that I am experiencing all of these symptoms?

I am so thankful this board exists it has been so helpful and the advice and support I have received has been very welcome.

I think why I am obsessed with all or nothing feeling is that the uncertainty is killing me. I struggle not knowing what is going to happen and that causes anxiety. plus I feel fear of losing what I love most and I am sad that nome of it makes logical sense. I am getting better but the whole situation and knocked me for 6

Hey Steve.  Break-ups are hard on everyone and it's quite normal to feel these things- they're an appropriate response to what you're going through right now.  You're struggling and that's okay, we all struggle at times.



I know this feeling all too well but there is a fix- cut out the uncertainty.  Focus on what you can control today and work on letting go of the rest.

For example, you can't "fix the relationship" today, even though you wish that you could.  You're hoping for a positive response, and all of us are hoping for that too, but that's also outside your control for the time being.

So what can you control today?

For this question, we want to stop thinking about the relationship because it's not something you have active control over.  Sure, you could write another note or show up with a grand gesture, but from experience we know that's likely to push her even further away.  As Kells said, she needs some time and space to process this in a healthy way for her.

So where does that leave you?  What can you actually control?

The answer is you...you're in control of yourself.  Your daily habits, your support network, the foods you eat, the places you go...all of that is within your control today.

We look at mental illness as if it's a yes/no equation- either we're crazy or we're not.  But that's not helpful and it's not true.  There's so much grey area involved and all of us struggle with mental health at times.  And it's okay if we're not okay.  What actually matters is what we do about it in those situations.

Can you see where I'm going with this?

If your focus is on "saving the relationship", then everything is outside your control for now.  But if your focus is on "doing what's best for me today", then you're in complete control of the outcome.  You can choose to get out of the house, talk with friends, hit the gym or a local park for some exercise, spend some time on one of your favorite hobbies, cook a great meal, etc. 

You have complete control over all of that, and making healthy choices for your mental health is going to have a huge impact physically and emotionally as well.

That's why you have to put you first and focus on what you can actually control.

I'm preaching to the choir here because I did exactly the same thing when my ex and I had tension.  It took me months before I began to focus on what was within my control instead of what I wanted.  But once I had that mindset shift, things became a lot easier mentally...and it also helped my relationship.

Just something to keep in mind.

as anxious as you may feel right now, you also sound a great deal more centered.


all of these, or any one of them alone, are hard.

yet youre able to articulate your feelings. youre able to sit with them without acting/or reacting. you have the presence of mind to be able to say "this is hard, and i need help with it".

all of that is emotional regulation in practice.

and what youre practicing right now, gives you real, lasting power, over when/if it happens in the future.


these are things that everyone experiences sometimes, to lesser or greater degrees, especially in times of stress, uncertainty, heartache. people with bpd, or other personality disorders, or impulse disorders, just experience them more often, and to greater extremes. have you experienced them before?

Thanks guys

Yes I guess through my life I have experienced these emotions but never like this. I have been through quite a few breakups but this one has hit the hardest without doubt.

I am trying my best to focus on what I can control. and am aware I can't control the relationship.

I guess one of my issues in that I'm aware that I struggle to just let things be. I always need to know in myself what my plan is. I think when I asked the question, "should I just try to move on now or would you recommend giving a certain about of time and then try reaching out again?" was so that im my mind I could have clarity, for example if the recommendation is to move on and if I get a relay, great. or maybe try in a month. that would help me get an idea in my head of what im going to do and would help with anxiety as I would then know what I was going to do. im just struggling with that choice in my own mind right now.

does that make sense?

the idea right now is to achieve two things:

1. by not reacting, or following up, you send a very strong signal of calm and cool that looks attractive.

you want to hear from her, understandably, but shes also likely surprised she hasnt heard from you. and not in a way where she thinks youre supposed to contact her, because you put the ball squarely in her court. if shes expecting you to plea for her, or for you to lash out at her, and neither of those things happen, it looks like real change.

2. letting her get back to baseline.

for her to calm down, and not be in reactive mode herself.

it is not "bad" that she hasnt reached out yet. it means shes using the time to get back to baseline, rather than lash out at you, and rather than tell you "its over".


so for now, i would continue to do nothing.

why? because its highly likely she will reach out when shes ready. youre not just going to never hear from her again. theres too much unfinished business.

sure, if a week or more goes by, it might be a good idea at that point to reach out again, depending on how you go about it. you dont just want to let things sit forever.

but right now, as hard as it is to sit with the uncertainty, youre approaching this right, and doing the right thing.

thank you.

well I'm day 3 now so I will give it another week and then if I hear anything or not I will be back for some advice.

thank you so much guys

quick update, ive been blocked on instagram. my friend told me she put up a story saying

life update, ive had my tits done and moved to London, a lot has changed, what should I do next?

We don't know where you're at- but I'm guessing not close to London?

Continue focusing on yourself and making each day matter.  You can't control what she does and moving away doesn't mean there won't be opportunity in the future.  It's just not an open door today.

id start by asking friends not to relay any more updates.

thats what i would do, because hearing about her and what shes up to would just drive me nuts. your call, of course.

there isnt anything in particular to be done about her update. its just an update.

you are, however, coming up on a week since you last messaged her. i wouldnt do anything just yet, but its probably time to think about what youd want to say in a follow up. something short and sweet. got anything in mind?

regarding the move to london: is that closer to you? further from you?

yes I am in the north of England,

Well it has been 1 week with no response from my last message. this is the onliest we have not had contact since the first day we met. my instinctual thoughts of what do do next is to wait one more week the send this text.

hi, I hope you are recovering well from your surgery. its taken me a lot longer than you to come to this conclusion but maybe you are right and we should not be together. it is probably the best thing for both of us and I realise that now. its time for me to move on. its a shame something I thought was so great ended in such a tragic way. id hate for us to end things with animosity so I thought id reach out. I understand you are struggling mentally at the moment and something is your mind is forcing you to see me in a negative light. hopefully one day when you are in a better place you can look back and see all I ever wanted was for us to be happy. if you ever need a friend or someone to talk to my line will always be open to you. I hope you you go forward and have everything you ever dreamed of, I wish you nothing but there best.

then I was going to send some pics of the happy times

thank you for all of these great moments, they are memories for me to cherish, I want to look back at our time together and remember the good times and not the times at the end. thank you for everything, il miss you, but I want you to go and be who you want to be and enjoy your life to the fullest. be kind to yourself, and take care

sorry for all the typos

question: is this what you want? to walk away, to end the relationship? or would you be sending this as a bid to get her back?

In a bid to get her back, it’s worrying me that. Have made it so easy for her to leave me dangling, and I need some dignity to restore attraction

Plus the relationship. Believe has officially ended so I don’t have a lot to lose

Just marked the parts which immediately jump out of the message at me. Remember that BPD's aren't good at reverse logic, where they can see you mean the opposite of what you might say; they see things totally in black or white.. and there's a lot of black in that message. Just my thoughts, maybe others also think the same.

Plus including photos might also appear as 'final closure' to her, even though we know you're sending them with good intentions to stir her happy memories.

thanks under the bridge

im unsure about what path to take here as my last approach of leaving the door open seems to have toady failed. im not sure of how to best put strength across and get a response from her.

breakup threats arent dignified; theyre desperation moves, and theyre destructive.

theyre self-destructive, in that its like shooting yourself in the foot (you dont want to break up, so why tell her you do?), and theyre destructive to the relationship, in that they damage safety and trust, the things you want to restore.


try not to see this as a competition, or a power play. viewing each other as adversaries is a large part of what has contributed to the damage that led things here.

her not answering you says two things:

1. she was really hurt by removing her from the family chat, and the message she received when she asked for support
2. shes saying your apology for it was "too little, too late".

if there is any jockeying behind that, its to get the point across that shes serious. that she "means it this time". we hope that she changes her mind about that, but its real.

what your message(s) to her attempted to do was short term triage - to stop the bleeding. to put the weapons down. but that doesnt undo, cant undo in a couple of messages, the long term damage that has been done.

thats important to understand; this isnt about magic words to manipulate someone. its to begin to understand your own reactive/destructive tendencies, and shift gears. that isnt a guarantee to reconcile a damaged relationship. it is a path to reclaiming your dignity.


dignity isnt something you can get from her. it isnt something that she took. dignity comes from within.

dignity comes from the quiet confidence of living your life in a way that is true to your values. it comes from the ability to be vulnerable, but not desperate. it comes from the ability to self-regulate. simply, its being true to yourself, regardless of how someone else might perceive you.

youve been able to do that in your work here. youve been open, honest, and earnest. your dignity isnt gone; your ego is wounded that she didnt answer, and you fear that shes walking away. understandably so.

dont let your fears dictate your actions; let your values do that. thats how you keep your dignity. thats your moral compass that helps you navigate situations like these.

i understand your new, proposed message was a first instinct, a first draft. its still important to learn from.

1. it is more of the same message: "if i dont get my way, ill do something like threaten a break up to ensure that i do"
2. it looks wishy washy. it doesnt sound like someone who is serious about repairing the damage or reconciling the relationship. it doesnt sound like someone who just said they thought through their actions, are sorry for them, and want to reconcile the relationship. it sounds like "oh well, guess this is over then".
3. its transparent. i dont know her, so i cant say for sure that she will see the breakup threat as an attempt to scare her back into the relationship, but she will feel the desperation behind it. it will feel manipulative to her. it will send her a message, loud and clear, that breaking up is the best thing.
4. in your last note you told her you understood your actions were hurtful, and apologized for them. you were trying to tell her "i get it - i messed up". this new message says "im not sure what you think i did, its your own mind forcing you to see me in a negative light". that might provoke a response: a furious one.
5. "and by the way, here are some pictures to show you what youre missing out on, youd better do something quick"

does that make sense?

it isnt clear or honest communication. it isnt living according to your values. it isnt coming from a place of strength inside of you.


i want to reiterate: there arent magic words. this isnt about finding a magic phrase that will trick her. it isnt about doing whatever will work to get a response - that does not get strength across.

try this:

try setting aside your pain for a moment. try setting aside the fear of losing her. try setting aside the reactive efforts. channel that inner strength.

what if you knew that the relationship was over for good? what would you really want to say to her? what is the message that you really want to convey? it doesnt have to be "right" or "the best", or "work". just shoot for honesty.

Thanks once again for helping me to keep grounded, I am finding it difficult to come up with and idea that doesn’t show my pain, but I want to demonstrate strength, I feel I am being punished for loving her, I kinda thought the other day to send this

Hi , I know you have said not to contact but I can’t turn off my feelings easially. I just want to let you know I’m still here for you, I know you are battling mentally right now, I’d like to learn more and offer assistance and understanding to see if I can help in even a small way, even after all that has happened you are still the most important thing to me, I love you unconditionally, I want to be there, to hold your hand, but you have to let me in

One thing we need to bear in mind here is that it is not a breakup threat, in her mind we are broken up, she has her social media set to single

I think if I was going to set aside the pain and fear I would say something like this.

this isn't the way I would have preferred things to go between us, I did genuinely hope we could work things out. your silence has made it clear to me that there does not seem to be a way forward for us. I need to respect that and focus on moving on now. I would like to say however, I wish you all the best in life and you find everything you ever wanted, you are an incredible human being and it was a pleasure to have known you, all of by best life memories were with you. you were truly loved to the core, adored and cherished. I will never ever forget the great times we had. It would be sad if we went forward with eternal silence after all we have been though and shared together. I don't want to harbour resentment and I would like to make it clear that if you ever need a friend, my line will always be open

i think both of those are much closer to what you want to say  |iiii


okay. then we need to take it seriously, but also not take it at face value, at least if we're hoping she changes her mind.




these are two somewhat different approaches.

1. the first one says "i still care whats going on with you and want to help".
2. the second one says "okay. i get that you dont want to talk to me. ill respect that going forward, but i hope that, and im here if, you change your mind."

neither one of these approaches sacrifices your dignity.

the first one is probably not something you want to sign up for, though. you probably would not be in a good position to be an unbiased friend to her, you want her back, and you have your own resentments. it wouldnt be very kind of her to put you in that position, either.

the second one is just cleaned up a bit (i would still fine tune it a little bit for clarity and natural transitions). setting her status to single, not responding to you - it is possible she may still be acting out of hurt, and drama. you dont want to ignore it completely (act as if youre still together), but you dont want to take it seriously in the sense that you say "okay, fine then", or start saying your goodbyes (that is probably premature at this point). also, in times like these, some of the niceties could piss her off, eg "oh, im an incredible person? then how come you didnt treat me like it!". you want to communicate "im not moved by the drama. im not desperate, either. im saddened that you dont want to talk to me, but strong enough to get the message and heed it, and theres an emotionally safe path back to me if you decide you want to take it."

I see what you are saying. however I think I need to think of a way to ask to open up communication again.

if I send option 2, it is basically exactly the same as the last message I sent, and she chose to ignore me so I don't see how this would make any difference or add any more context to the situation.

do you know what I mean?

also just for context, I noticed she returned the money for the taxi back to my account a few days ago, the one that started all of this problem, thanking her for that could be a possible way to strike up communication

also just to for context to her personality, the incites have got me the best results in the past. they best responses have alway been from long emails, however that may not be appropriate right now

I thought the same thing- it's too dark and too negative.  Plus, I don't think it's genuine to Steve's actual feelings.

Put yourself in her shoes for a moment.  More than anything, BPDs fear rejection and abandonment.  So breaking up was her worst fears come to life.

You're still reaching out, and she's already done the scariest thing possible- walking away.  Going back to that relationship is now the scariest possible thing in her life, because she has all that pain and regret built up.

Please understand this in the frame of mental health though- none of this is your fault.  She was hurt by poor communication stemming from mental illness.

If you send a message, "It's probably for the better, I wish you luck...." then that will only confirm every fear she's ever had. 

If you say, "I want you back and I care about you so much..." it's going to make her question whether or not your efforts are genuine, and it will likely push her away.  Again, we're talking about a primal, deep-seeded fear of being abandoned here. 

It's like you standing up to the boogeyman as a little kid when you heard a noise in the closet or under your bed.  Even though we know now there was no monster lurking, the fear is real and intense.  That's what she feels right now.

If you're going to reach out again, the message has to matter.  I hope that helps.

you did that, though. sure, you can ask again, and you can make clear that its what you want to see happen. but you have to be prepared that it may not be the outcome.


sure. it is basically the same message you sent, and its in the same spirit, intentionally. and mind you, it wasnt intended to be a final draft, just the essence of your original; it needs tweaking. the reason for essentially doing the same thing again is because for you, in this relationship, its a very different approach. the first version may not have "worked" in the sense that she didnt respond, but ill bet dollars to donuts that it caught her off guard. using the same tone (if not the same words) tells her "wait a minute, that last message wasnt a fluke. what got into him?". it also says, for the respect of her, and for the sake of your own dignity, you wont force her to talk to you.

the problem is, if someone doesnt want to talk to you, you dont have a lot of cards you can play besides "im here when and if you change your mind".

you can keep sending messages (unless or until youre blocked). you can beg or plead (not dignified). you could even say something that will set her off, purely to provoke a response. i wouldnt recommend it.

you can consider throwing a hail mary. go all out, with a big, romantic gesture. this can work, but it has a low success rate, probably 15%. plus, i imagine it wont feel very good if she doesnt respond. we can try to work out what it might look like, if you want. no harm exploring it.

pook, once removed. thank you once again for you insights. ok let me have a try at a message, and I will see what your opinions are once you have a change to digest


I received the £100 and want to thank you for that. I would like to take this opportunity to ask how you are doing with your recovery, ask how (dogs name) is doing and maybe ask if there is a chance we could consider talking again?. this isn't the way I would have preferred things to go between us, it would be sad if we went forward with eternal silence after all we have been through. your silence is something I need to respect if that is what you want.I will never ever forget the great times we had. I would like to make it clear that my line will always be open, I love you

its not a bad note. the wording, as is, is confusing, and makes for two different messages.

message one:


this is a simple tack, and a good one. it thanks her, which is just polite, and professional. it cracks the door open and shows interest, gives her the opportunity to respond, and it doesnt stick your neck on the chopping block. its natural, and it makes sense. it also looks like a guy who is above the drama, above the "we arent talking to each other" stuff.

1. you dont need to announce that youd like to take the opportunity to ask; just take the opportunity to ask.
2. youre not maybe asking if theres a chance to consider talking again - youre either asking, or you arent.
3. asking about her recovery and her dog are implicitly asking her to talk again. asking those things, then asking if you can talk again is a little redundant.

so the message is good, but some of the language around it is redundant, soft, and muddles the message. "I received the £100 and want to thank you for that. How are you doing with your recovery? How is (dog's name)?" is the more straight forward and confident version of the message youre trying to send. you could add a simple closing line, something casual but touching, that says you were thinking about her, but it isnt necessary, and if not done right, could step on the rest of the message. a cute memory of the dog, or something like that, could work.

message two:


theres nothing wrong with these words alone. tacking them as they are, to the above message, answers your own question. rather than "can we talk", it would say "can we talk? i guess not." it gets ahead of itself.

as for choosing between the two, the first one is likely far closer to what youre trying to do: open those lines of communication in a cool, calm, confident, upbeat way. its drama free, its warm, it risks nothing, and she risks looking like a jerk if she ignores it.

yes what you say makes total sense, just keep it cool and casual.

thank you so much. its been 9 days since contact now. im wondering to leave it until maybe the 14 day mark, what would be your recommendation?

@Steve,

I've been following along as you've received good advice from others.

In all the back and forth, it's not clear if you're prepared to respect and accept her choice. It seems like you want to try to change her mind, or simply want further interaction - in any form it might take.

I'll simply say:
Closure is something you can give yourself.
Dignity is something you must give yourself.

If she has BPD, and up/down, right/wrong, etc., is difficult to untangle, the only thing any of us can do is to look inward. i.e., shift the focus away from her and toward yourself.

Does that make sense?

If you send the note and she doesn't respond, what's next?
If you send the note and she offers some version of what you've already heard, what's next?
If you send the note and she opens up a bit, answers the questions, but offers no path forward, what's next?
If you send the note and she offers some indication that she'd like to talk, what's next?

My point is: You have the power to anticipate what's next because you know her - and you know yourself - better than anyone else.

In regard to your last question - waiting for 14 days - it's an arbitrary number. Would it be possible to make a deal with yourself to simply wait indefinitely - until she makes the next move? She might reach out for money, or emotional support, or maybe something else. What then?

Hang in there.

what would be the reason behind waiting?

Hi Eyes up

I see where you are coming from. the are so many what if no matter what the situation is. I just think that all we went through and all of what we had its almost impossible to leave things as they are now. I think if I don't get any response, at some point I'm going to have to send a goodbye message, if nothing but for me own sanity and then move on. I find it so surreal to leave something that was so precious for both of us with just a few bad texts. maybe it is my hangup but it just doesn't sit right with me. I am suffering a great deal with all of this. I had never fell so hard for anyone before, and from what I believed neither did she, I'm struggling with the reality that maybe she didn't or did she. so may opposing thoughts and questions in my mind. if I had one wish right now it would be to understand the whole truth, so I could have an opportunity to process what happened but the way it has been left just makes no sense to me at all. im really broken, im struggling with day to day life, my sleep patterns are all over the place, as is my eating and im almost useless running my business. im trying to find strength, and im disappointed in myself at how weak I am being. I have always been a confident, upbeat, charismatic and successful person. now I have no idea who I am anymore. I feel like im waking around like a zombie or a ghost. all I want to do is sleep so I don't have to feel this pain. I also worry for her. I understand she is in a bad place mentally and I want to be there her. but I also need to be there for myself. it's such a wide range of emotions that I struggle with constantly. I am in therapy, I am socialising with friends and family. I meditate, workout and do yoga. im doing all of the typical healthy thing you should do in this situation but nothing seems to dull the pain.

to give her a little more time to see if she reaches out to me

Also more time to allow her to get back to baseline

smart. makes sense.

she may be mad, or she may have hurt feelings, or both, but deep down, she probably doesnt want things to end on that last note, either.

so, sure, if you wait, you are likely to ultimately hear from her.

the only problem is, timing is a factor in this particular case. the longer, in her mind, the two of you are broken up, the more "real" it becomes, and the more going back might seem like lifting a boulder up a mountain. in situations like these, sometimes more time passed is better (or neutral), sometimes you dont want to wait too long.

the thing about your note is that its organic: you got the £100, it makes sense to thank her, and it makes sense to politely follow up, about her, about the dog, about whatever.

it wont necessarily hurt things to wait, if your senses are telling you to do so. it just may make less sense to send your note if you wait too long.

yes I hear what you are saying, maybe go with a happy medium, I was going to wait until Tuesday buy maybe Sunday would be best, thats also her day off work so she will have time to consider if she will respond

sure, if the timing feels right to you, it makes sense to give things until the weekend.

yeah I will sleep on it and see how I feel.

im starting to think some different thoughts now. im having difficulty coming to terms that she could ghost and discard me like this. I am the one person who cares for her the most in the whole world, not even her family really bother with her. it is such self sabotaging behaviour. also I just thought that since she initially moved out she hasn't asked how my kids were once. she was stepmom to them for 3 years and they loved her

its good to think these things through. "bpd relationships" are not, generally, "fair and equal" in a traditional sense - they are special needs relationships. if a person is choosing to stay, or to try to reconcile, they should do so with eyes wide open, and realistic expectations of what the ideal version of their relationship can be.

the way shes handling and going about this is immature, and hurtful, no doubt. she isnt thinking things through.

in your hurt, dont lose sight of the big picture, and how the two of you got to where you are now: 1000 cuts. lots of damage over time, and a breakdown of trust. when that happens, both parties tend to move away from relationship repair and connection, and increasingly either toward self preservation, and/or trying to wrest control/power of the direction the relationship is going.

in that scenario, there arent winners and losers, good guys or bad guys; just two people trying to cope with a hard situation, and hurting each other in the process. it takes a lot of work, when its possible, to steer the relationship in a healthier direction, in a way that works for both people, and the relationship as a whole.


so, do think it through. do give voice to the part of you that isnt happy with the way things have gone, are going. determine, with support, and as close to objectivity as you can get, what part of that is you, what part of that is her, what part can realistically change, and how much - whether its enough. all the skills, tools, and love, in the world, cant make two people right for each other, if, at the end of the day, they arent the right fit for each other. in your hurt, dont try to get her back at any cost - because as EyesUp said, this ultimately, if the relationship is salvageable, will take a lot of work.

whatever you decide to do, or however things go, keep your eyes on the big picture: being able to look back, five years from now, and say that youre proud of how you handled it.

yes there is a lot to consider for sure, I decided to send the message just now. fingers crossed.

again thanks for all the help guys. il let you know if I get any response

hi guys, I sent the message, I went out on a limb and added some of my own message also[


Hey,  just noticed you made a bank transfer, thank you. I really hope you are doing ok. Are you healing ok? How’s (dog)? X

then I sent

When I got the text from you saying we would not talk anymore, I felt very hurt, my mind took it for a breakup. i thought i wouldn't bother you with the group msgs.. i now feel that i might have misunderstood, i am sorry, i didn't mean to hurt you. i would like to apologise for that x

nothing yet guys, not even the blue ticks. keeping my fingers crossed

if I don't hear anything in 3 days im going to go for a big email. one last Hail Mary, and if that doesn't work I'm going to put all of this behind me and move on with my life, this is what I have come up with, any advice would be appreciated

I hope you are ok. I have some things I would like to get off my chest before I say goodbye. I hope you can spare some time to read what I have to say.
This whole situation has obviously been very difficult for both of us. I have had a lot of time to reflect and try to make sense of everything in my own mind. I can’t say I have this right for sure but what I have been thinking is that from such a short space of time going from being in love to not even talking doesn’t sit right with me. First, I want to say. I miss you, I miss us, I miss dog , you guys are my family. I miss the small things, like when would scratch each other’s back and laugh when it feels so good or saying silly things like “at least the radiators work”. I have tried so hard to be a good man for you, I have made some big mistakes, however. Mistakes that I didn’t fully grasp at the time but looking back I missed some major things. I think you have been battling with your mental health for a long time, well before we broke up and I think a lot of it is my fault. I know you have issues with abandonment, and I was far too preoccupied with my own issues to give you the reassurance that you needed. I’m sorry for that, so sorry, I would do anything to turn back time and handle things differently, I was talking about my own issues to you far too much and I think that it all became very overwhelming for you to have to take on board my problems as well as battling with you own internal stress. I also think that when you were in this difficult mental state the kids were difficult for you to be around as you were already very stressed, and they understandably added to that. Plus, we both had a lot of work stress and you with your surgery must have added a huge weight on your shoulders, I can imagine everything got a lot and I didn’t know how to help.
I think that 2 weeks that we got back together I didn’t handle things very well either, I will admit I was paranoid, and I have my own abandonment issues, and I was worried in case I lost you, and unfortunately, I did. I have been working hard in therapy to address these issues, so I no longer have such an intense problem there. At the time I tried to bring us closer and spend more time together, but I feel I suffocated you, I thought it would help to be closer, but I was wrong, you needed space I just couldn’t see that at the time. This is something else I’m sorry I did. Also, I was concerned that your job was taking over your life and that it was more important to you than I was. Again, I have worked on this, I was in a very strange state myself at that time, I apologise.
When you moved to London, I noticed a huge shift in how you would communicate with me, both the frequency and the tone. Please try to understand why I was concerned about this. Now that I have had the chance to fully reflect, I can understand that you were struggling mentally and maybe did not have the capacity to fully engage in thoughts about me or our relationship, I can fully understand and take that on board now. I’m sorry, I was pushing too hard for my own needs, it was selfish of me, and I apologise, I see where I went wrong now.

If there is any way we can resolve these issues and find our way back to each other in some way I would like to try. You are the most precious thing to me in the entire world, you are my world, I don’t think there is another human being on this planet loves and cares for you as much as I do. I want you in my life. I care for you so much I would die for you, I mean that. I love you more than I love myself. I want to make sure you don’t have to go through any of this ever again. I know now that a lot of the time you feel misunderstood, that I don’t understand you, but I want to change that, I think I’m getting there now but I have a lot to learn still. When you would say things like, “do you hate me?” “I am a burden?” I now realise sometimes you really felt those things., I can assure you that I have never felt like you were a burden, and I have certainly never felt hatred for you. But now I know more reassurance is needed. I know you have been through a lot in your life, and it hurts me to think of all the daily pain you must go through, I would do anything to be able to take that away, and that because of those traumas sometimes you think differently to me, I want to learn to understand, to “get you” so that I can better take care of you and give the emotional support you need from me. I want to show you that I am willing to do this consistently for the rest of my life. Il never hate you, il never abandon you and I will always be there for you. You are not alone.
I have no hard feelings, anger or resentment for anything that has happened so for, I know you are in a lot of pain, and it breaks my heart you that you must go through that.
All the issues we have are solvable, if you are willing, we could start taking again at a pace that works for you and I won’t try to rush things, of course I would make suggestions, I will back off if the pace isn’t right for you. You mentioned when I came to visit you, and I was taking you to the taxi that you go through cycles. In the future, if we get to a point that it happened again, we could communicate how best to handle it, let’s say we were living together and you needed a few weeks, I could move to my mans or you could go visit family or something like that. I think with communication and understanding we could navigate these things. If you were feeling overwhelmed and I had the kids, I could stay at my mams with them so you wouldn’t have that stress. There are many things we could work out so that you would be comfortable. You are loved, wanted and needed. I will always be here and always be someone you can trust. I would love to us to make mental and physical health a top priority for us as well a peace going forward into our future.
Having said all of this I could be completely wrong, maybe you just don’t love me anymore, maybe you were bored with me, maybe you want something or someone else. I can’t be so sure. If it is any of these reasons, please will you be honest with me, even if it hurts me, I’d rather know what I did wrong to learn from it, so I don’t make the same mistakes in the future.
I know you could get any guy, a better-looking guy, a richer guy, a more fun guy. However, I think it would be a miracle if you could get someone that cares for you like I do, someone that would be willing to write an email like this, I hope you can see the value in that.
I know you told me not to message you, I can’t help but think there is a part of you that still wants me to fight for you, to show I care and reassure you. I made you a promise to never abandon you unless you specifically told me to. And I’m not the kind of man to give up on the people he loves. And I love you more than life itself.
Have a think about what I have said, if there’s anything you need that I have missed please let me know so I can incorporate that into this also. If there is any chance, we can find common ground let me know. This is not what I want but if you want me to walk away for good, please pop me a message saying “walk away” so I know to never contact you again and I can move forward with my life, if that is your decision I will respect it. If I don’t ever talk to you again just know, you were deeply loved to your core, I will treasure our time together, you are an amazing person, be kind to yourself and I wish you the very best for the future.

i think it was a good idea to write the message, and hold onto it. keep working at it, refining it.

i dont think it would be a good idea to send it, or anything further, right now.

you wrote one note. you gave it time. you followed up. thats a reasonable minimum. not too much, not too little, appropriate in context, earnest, and dignified. you can feel good about the effort, and the things you said. doing more becomes risky, after that.

you may:

1. denigrate your dignity

2. if she isnt ready or willing to talk, she will be even less willing to respond to an escalation/hail mary; it will feel like pressure, and push her away

3. feel even worse when/if she doesnt respond to the effort you put into it

4. the note itself is, essentially, pouring your heart out; its emotional processing of what youre going through, and it seeks acknowledgment of it. its highly therapeutic to write it. but someone in her position, actually receiving it, is very unlikely to take it in the way that you would hope.

you have, for right now, played your last best card, and doing more, at this point, is likely to work against your goals. that doesnt mean you have to completely give up, if you dont want to.

you can keep refining the hail mary idea. consider other approaches than a letter (got any in mind? tough with long distance.). maybe in a month, or two, or three, if you still want to send it, it might be worth a shot, and lower risk than it is right now.

it is far from a foregone conclusion that you have heard from her for the last time. at the same time, after two efforts, and roughly a couple of weeks, it does suggest shes either committed to a breakup, or committed to "sending a message", or both. we dont know. she may write you back tomorrow, and she may not. one thing i know is that no one likes to end on a note like that. not when theyve had time to get away, cool down, and the ice has had a chance to thaw. that could take longer, and it also could never come; i wouldnt suggest you put your life on hold in waiting for it. but think about it: no one likes to be the person that says "screw your apology", you just look and feel like the bad guy. youve got a history; a complex one, and also one with a lot of pain in it. if someone has shut down communication, the pain tends to be foremost in their mind. there comes, for most people, a point where that shifts, although even that is not a guarantee that someone will reach out. you know her best. what do you honestly think? 

you can, of course, send the hail mary as is, at any time. i believe you would regret it.

and you can, if you decide to, put it behind you. i know how hard that would be, but we'll be here to support you if you decide to.

at the end of the day, as urgent as things feel, you have time, and you have options. keep thinking on it.

Yes I take on board and understand what you are saying. let me tell you what is going on in my head right now.

Im starting to think that if I am not going to get a response anyway what hard can a risk do at this point. also my dignity isn't going to matter too much, she is far away and we have no mutual connections so if this is it I simply won't hear from or see her ever again. so no problem with embarrassment from friends etc.

I understand what you are saying about pushing her away further and wait a little longer. what I worry about with waiting is that she will detach more and move on to someone else, at that point its pretty much over.

im not to worried about feeling worse now. a part of me want to move on from this if it isn't going to work, at least if I send that message a can move forward knowing in my heart I tried everything I possibly could have. I dont want to completely give up without telling her what I really feel. my most honest feelings and let her do what she will with that.

the only other approach a can think to show I care is to send a get well card with a little care package of her favourite things, I know her address.

What do I honestly think?, I'm unsure, I think if she wanted to move on she would at least have the decency to just explain that to me, she has always been a good communicator and its only recently that changed. so maybe she is sending a message, I think she doesn't know what she wants. this last 2 weeks is the only time she has totally cut off communication, she said we should talk and to leave her alone but she hasn't clearly said he wants to move on, it seems clear what she has said but I know her mind, it isn't crystal clear. there is a part of me that thinks she wants me to fight but there is a part of me that thinks should would send a nice message ending it with grace, and compassion. she has never been the cold before.

I am coming to the conclusion that I may need to put this behind me, but again, I would like to have said everything I could have to try, that way going forward I can look back and think "at least I did my very best" if I sent the Hail Mary and it was totally ignored I would feel that is very cruel  to ignore such a heartfelt message and it would help me to move on thinking that she could be so cruel.

all fair points. all things id be concerned about if i were in your shoes. let me speak to a few of them.


if that is going to happen, its going to happen. timing likely wont be a major factor in the outcome.

if shes done, shes done. we are hoping that she isnt.

also worth noting: if there is going to be a point that you hear from her, youre in a stronger position if she initiates it.


sure, i can appreciate that. you dont want to let your piece go unsaid.

if thats the case, then here is what to consider:

do you care more about it "working" (having the ideal outcome), or getting it off your chest? if its the latter, then youre right, there isnt much harm to be done, doesnt much matter what you say as long as you feel good about it. timing wont matter either.

if you care more about it evoking a response from her, then know that whatever you do will have a low success rate (not guaranteed to fail, just statistically less likely; thats what a hail mary is), and that you want to craft the best possible version with the greatest likelihood of achieving the outcome youre hoping for. theres a lot in the current version of the letter that will work against that likelihood.


this might be the better idea. its different. its actions, rather than words.

This would be a better idea than sending the very long message you posted. The length of the message alone might have caused her to feel overwhelmed due to her BDP short span of attention. You basically just want her to know that you're still thinking about her and still there for her, so something short and to the point would hopefully be more effective at this point to keep you in her mind.

I too went the 'long letter' route  during out first break up - if I recall correctly it was 7 pages! Handwritten too, which took me ages as I constantly changed the content. I'm not saying it didn't have some value but I think the more frequent, shorter messages I sent earlier hit the spot far better and simpler.

One thing I did decide on though, was that after I'd send this 'ultimate epic' letter, I would tell myself I'd done everything humanly possible to keep the relationship going and call it a day. End of. Let her contact me if she wishes, but I now have to draw a line under it and get on with my life. Ironically enough, she started coming back into the pub where we used to hang out and we got back together, so maybe my silence was far more effective than my messages, who knows?

If you do ever send that long message then, for your sanity, make it the last. There's really no such thing as the 'perfect' message and you'll just re-write it over and over again  - as I did - in the hope that this version will sink in..and if it doesn't then the next one you write might.

At some point you must put the ball totally and finally in her court and if it doesn't come back then that's the end of the game.. and it does become a game if we let it.

Best wishes.

@ under the bridge: yes exactly i too feel the same,regarding this being the last, and was discussing this with steve the other day.. best effect is the silence after these msgs/letters, let her come on her own now if she has to.. thanks for sharing..

thank you for the advice, I still have not had a response. she usually is moved by larger gestures so I think im going to send the big mail. then move on, not expecting her to respond. however if she does one day she will at least have heard what I want to say. I have rewritten it. im thinking something like this

I know you asked for space, and I’ll fully respect that after this. I just need to say a few things from my heart, with no pressure, no expectations, and no hidden motives, just honesty and love.

Since we stopped speaking, I’ve spent a lot of time reflecting, on everything. Us, what went wrong, what I didn’t see clearly at the time. The one thing I keep coming back to, no matter how much I try to rationalise or push it away, is you. I miss you. I miss us. I miss the way we’d laugh at the most ridiculous things, the quiet comfort of your presence, and the way even the little moments, like back scratches or saying “at least the radiators work” meant everything.

You and Dog were my family. I’ve felt that absence more than I ever expected.

I've been thinking about how fast things changed, how we went from loving each other deeply to barely speaking. And honestly, it doesn't sit right with me. It feels like we lost each other in a storm we didn't fully understand at the time. I can’t know for certain what was going through your mind, but I’ve done a lot of reflecting on mine. And I’ve come to see clearly the ways I failed you.

I was caught up in my own stress and emotional needs. I talked too much about my own struggles and didn’t give you the space or reassurance you needed. I think you were battling with your mental health long before the relationship ended, and I didn’t show up in the way you needed me to. I didn’t always recognise how overwhelmed you were, by work, the surgery, the kids being annoying, your own thoughts, and instead of being your safe place, I added to the pressure.

I’ve also come to see how my own fears, especially around abandonment, played out in ways that made things harder for you. When we got back together, I was trying so hard to hold onto us, but I did it the wrong way. I became clingy, paranoid, and I suffocated you with closeness when what you actually needed was space. I see that now. I’ve been working on that in therapy, on my patterns, my fears, and how to support someone I love without losing myself or overwhelming them.

I now understand that when your messages changed, when your tone shifted after moving to London, it wasn’t necessarily about me. Maybe you were exhausted, overwhelmed, emotionally stretched thin, and I pushed at a time when you needed patience. I’m sorry I couldn’t see that then. I pushed for clarity, affection, answers, when what you needed might have been calm, quiet, and understanding. That was my mistake, and I own it fully.

Most of all, I want you to know this, you are not to blame for what happened. I hold no anger or judgment toward you, just love, regret, and a deeper understanding of how things spiraled. You did what you had to do to cope with the weight you were carrying. I see that now. You will never be blamed by me for what you felt or how you acted. I know now that some of the things you said during our relationship, like “do you hate me?” or “am I a burden?” weren’t just passing comments. They were real feelings. And I didn’t hear them the way I should have.

I want to learn how to be better. Not just for me, but for you, if there’s still a space for me in your life. I believe that what went wrong between us isn’t beyond repair. I believe that with communication, patience, and emotional awareness, we could build something far stronger than what we had before.

If cycles of emotional overwhelm ever happen again, we could plan for them. Whether it’s taking space temporarily, me staying at my mam’s keeping more distance with the kids, or you visiting family, we could figure out what works. I want to support you in the way you need, not the way I assumed you did before. And I would love for us to put peace, mental health, and emotional safety at the very core of any future we build.

I’m not expecting anything from you. And I’m not asking for instant resolution or romance. If you feel there’s any part of you still holding onto us—even a small, quiet part, I’d love the chance to rebuild slowly, with care and intention. I promise not to rush you, to overwhelm you, or to pull at you. I’ll follow your pace. And if you ever feel unsure again, I’ll be the one reminding you that you are loved, understood, and never a burden.

If, in your heart, you truly know this chapter is over, I’ll respect that fully. If that’s how you feel, you can send me a simple message that says “walk away,” and I will. I’ll carry no resentment, just gratitude for the love we shared, and a deep hope that you find peace and joy in the life ahead of you.

But if you’re not sure… if you wonder whether we could get it right this time… if there’s any part of you that wants to talk, even just a little, I’m here. Patiently, without pressure.

You are loved. Deeply. You always have been.

wow.

thats coming from a place of not just how you honestly feel, but it is deeply grounded. it is both vulnerable and strong. certainly dignified. to be completely candid with you, i cant even recognize it from the guy that was wrestling with all of this before - and to do it at the hardest time? thats fortitude my friend, and it will serve you well into the future, even if things do not go the way we are all hoping.

and, i can tell that you really want to send it. obviously no one can guarantee that there will be a response. it is far more likely to be heard, though, than the first draft. its as good as a hail mary gets, and i mean that; next level stuff. i want to congratulate you on getting to that place.


if youre content with that, do what your heart is telling you, when youre ready to do it. we'll be here to support you in whatever happens.

thankyou, I had a major breakdown on my friend last night while we were having some drinks. I still feel totally broken and confused but I have listened to what you have said and today ive been trying to write it properly. I dont think I can have that much composed fortunate on the fly but I have tried hard to get it right today. I am very scared to not be able to have her back, I feel lonely, despair and I feel like Im living in a prison in my own mind and I need to have one last attempt and try and move on. im a so scared to move on and I fear the future. im scared I won't feel love like this ever again

I sent the email, fingers crossed. I can explain how much appreciate the support ive had on this board

(fingers crossed)


its okay to feel broken and confused  :hug:. this is the hardest part.

there arent words that will take away the pain youre feeling, and going to feel (assuming things dont work out). i wish that there were. i really, really wish that there were.

what i can tell you is that youre doing it with all of the strength and grace that any human being could reasonably muster, under the pressure. and that that tells me, no matter what happens, and i hope you know, deep down, you will survive, and already are.

none of that precludes the sort of suffering that life can throw at us. but it prepares us for the very best of what it has to offer.

thats what got me through it, at least. and i can tell you that if things dont work out, that it really does get better - it gets so much better.

this helped me, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI6uyh_mYW4

thank you for that, Eminem is one of my fave artists, he has definitely been in a relationship with a cluster before, listen to these songs, they remind me of my relationship a lot

tragic endings
black magic
good guy
farewell

That was a great email; full of love, positivity and hope, no blaming her for anything and accepting that you're not perfect either. I don't think you can ever write better than that.

Now you need to give her time to read and absorb.. and hopefully re-read many times. Don't contact her again in a few days, give her all the time she needs; your silence can be equally as effective as your words.

In the meantime, try and have some 'you' time - see your friends, go out for a drink, whatever you do to relax. I know it's hard but try to get a bit of 'normality', to get yourself recharged mentally and physically and be at your best for whatever happens.

Incidentally, my ex showed the 7-page epic I sent to her friend and her friend said 'Wow! I wish a guy would write to me like that!' :)

Keep the faith, we're all rooting for you.

thanks under the bridge

I dont think she will ever respond. and im not going to contact again. I feel so empty now, it really does break my heart that everything we shared, the amazing years we had ended up in an eternal silence, it feels inhumane. I really can't wrap my head around it. I feel demoralised, used and humiliated. I gave her a LOT, both financially and emotionally. I suppose time will heal but I have never ever felt this low. I have no interest in anything and I can't stop thinking about her

*mod*

This thread has reached its post limit and has been locked.

The discussion has continued here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=3060265.0