BPDFamily.com

Hi, I’m back after 2 Months or so away. Guess where I was? Yes, back with her.

My story is on a few posts earlier; I can cut it and paste it later today if need be.

Any way, the crisis is back. I caught her in a total, bold face, complete red handed lie on Sunday. She was lying to me, via text, in real time. So while we had made ELABORATE and More detailed plans than ever to be fully together at last (moving in together), she completely broke my trust on Sunday and I feel completely deflated. Of course she attempted to deny the lie on Sunday night, but I just ended it with you are not telling the truth and you are a liar. She hasn’t responded. There really is nothing for her to say; she was caught.

SO it’s no contact again (reminder: we work together). She won’t admit, and she ain’t apologizing. The same cycle, per usual.

MarkDavid, I am so sorry you are going through this.

You understand the push/pull dynamics and you are seeing this in your partner.  

You know the facts, but are you prepared to deal with the reality?  Please understand the actions of your partner are not about you, but her.  

Being betrayed is one of the worst feelings in a relationships.  Frequent infidelity can be seen as a form of abuse.  :)o not excuse this behavior.

You said your GF is BPD.  Is this a clinical diagnosis or something you suspect?

Blended families and social settings are the ideal settings for drama, especially when PDs are at work.  You can see the dysfunction across the generations.  

There is not  crystal ball as to why your GF was with her X but it may be to validate her desirability and need for male attention.

pwBPD and other PDs have two different sets of rules that suit their own needs.  

Again, this is not about you.

Thank you for your kind words.

Am I prepared to deal with the reality?  Probably not!  Then again, I think I need to know the truth!  It is a little difficult to stomach when she has been upping the ante POSITIVELY recently about our future together:  Thanksgiving menu planned and partial purchases made so far, talk about moving in with me though that is not a deal breaker, booking a Florida trip together for one of my kids and one of her kids to go on (as I type this, I hear her down the hallway, laughing with a work colleague, which just drives me insane (which she knows)).

It is not a clinical diagnosis.  However, there have been things that have happened with her and the quirky things she does and her track record and everything and over time and googling and internet searching and going through her behaviors, I just have very little doubt this is the case - that she is BPD.  Her behaviors just fit every category.  Heck we are both 49 years old; I don't think she is just playing around with me to play me like we are 22 year olds working the singles scene; there are kids involved and we both have talked at length about the importance of not exposing them to a bad situation.  Well I am available to her, honest, no lingering ex, no nothing that is any obstacle for us to finally be completely together, and that includes our workplace.  So we are supposedly closer than ever, yet she sneaks and does this in complete violation of what we very clearly agreed to.  And doesn't seem too damn bothered by it.  It makes me sick.  I am most times THE greatest thing since sliced bread, she would do nothing to ever hurt me (said again this past Saturday night after a nice long date together); and then the very next day she betrays me; she lies, denies, won't admit, won't apologize.

OK... .big picture stuff here.   :)o you understand that "forgiveness" and "reconciliation" are different things?

With that in mind... .I'm going to say absolutely you should forgive her.

Why?  She is being who she is.  Please believe her when she does these things... please believe she is "showing you" her "true self".

Furthermore... please believe that she has shown you who she is and what she will do when "caught" in the future.

In a similar fashion that you shouldn't hold anger and resentment if one of your friends could no longer walk to see you (because they are in a wheelchair... .yet had promised to walk with you somewhere)... .please don't hold anger and resentment against your pwBPD because she had promised the alone birthday thing.

She doesn't keep promises.

Reconciliation is another matter.  Should you desire a partner that doesn't keep promises, then consider reconciling.

Should you desire a partner that keeps promises AND that when "forced" not to (sometime life does throw screwballs) demonstrates sorrow and contrition.    I'm afraid this person doesn't fit that bill.

Sometimes facing the facts in front of you sucks.  I'm sorry you have this set of facts to look at.

 

FF

Thank you for your response.

It gives me a lot to think about.

That said, I do have questions:

1. You believe I should forgive someone who neither admits to or expresses sorrow?

2. It’s acceptable to be in a relationship with someone who repeatedly does not keep promises?

I’m sorry but some of these concepts are foreign to me.

Thank you for your response.

It gives me a lot to think about.

That said, I do have questions:

1. You believe I should forgive someone who neither admits to or expresses sorrow?

2. It’s acceptable to be in a relationship with someone who repeatedly does not keep promises?

I’m sorry but some of these concepts are foreign to me.

1. You believe I should forgive someone who neither admits to or expresses sorrow?

2. It’s acceptable to be in a relationship with someone who repeatedly does not keep promises?

I’m sorry but some of these concepts are foreign to me.

  I just don’t understand why she wanted me around in the first place if I supposedly just don’t measure up enough for her to give me true love in return.

Because at the moment she "wanted" that... .it was likely a "true" and "valid" reflection of her feelings.  The "battleground" for pwBPD is their feelings... .NOT the rules or their compliance with "rules".

That's a very "non" way of looking at things.

Trust me... .pwBPD don't consider the rules first.  Especially when emotions are hijacked.

Think of it as you just realized you are in a relationship with someone that you "believed" spoke your same language and had same cultural norms and values.  Turns out they don't.

So... YOU need to learn the "rules" in her world.  Then decide if that is something you "want".

Or... it is an acceptable decision to decide that you don't want anything to do with that... and move along.

I think the worse decision of all is to keep trying to "have" a relationship based on "your" rules and "your" culture.  Lots of frustration, disappointment and heartache down that path.  I promise you...

FF

I would encourage you to not spend time and energy wondering "does she really have BPD".  I used to do that a lot too.

It's a spectrum disorder.  What you "know" is that she displays "BPDish traits", because you can observe those.  Our "recommendations" on BPD family are to "deal with" the traits... .(what you actually see).  Let the diagnosing and labels be left to the professionals.


   

Please be kind to yourself... .if that is your normal habit... .be specifically "extra kind" for the next few days.  You are worth it!



FF

Thank you for that advice, too.  Yes indeed I am not a professional. I feel like I should be after what I have gone through. I definitely got more than I ever imagined when I became involved with this woman.

So many of her “quirky “ things she did and said are running through my mind; things that make a lot of people think she is just being her unique quirky self; the reality is that a lot of those quirks are very real.

  I have to believe that some woman out there can be on the same page as me

A very wise belief... .   |iiii

FF

It's a tough situation; though self-created on my part, having ever getting involved with her in the first place.  

I'm going to push back. 

Be kind to yourself.  You didn't know what you didn't know.  Now you do.

Remember my comments about her providing you information about her character?  Did you know that before hand?

OK... .so... .when people show you who they are... please believe them.

And... .most importantly don't insist that you should have been wiser.  You weren't then... .cut yourself some slack.  Now you are wiser... .reflect... .think... .make judgments for your life.  Keep your newfound wisdom close at hand.  You had to pay a lot to "earn" that wisdom.  Don't waste it.

FF

Please feel free to push back; I'm not sure if I need a crack across the head, a pitcher of water thrown in my face, or a hug.  But I will take them all.

All I know is that I have had other relationships in my life and I have NEVER had someone come on to me as hard as she did. I mean, this was not a short-term thing; for a long, long, long, time she acted as if she adored me; I definitely soaked in the adoration, and my ego was stroked, 24/7 for YEARS (other than the "bad times"; it was ALWAYS extremes; either incredibly good, or horribly bad like it is now).  I feel that she suckered me and I'm just a fool for falling for this; though nobody really knows just how hard she came at me and gave herself to me.  Heck, this past Saturday night, after I merely asked a question about her ex, she turned on the tears of sadness on my couch saying she felt SAD that I even ASKED something about him after all this time, as she thought we were FINALLY past all of those concerns, and she felt SO bad for me that I was still having those feelings of concern (rightfully so, obviously, as it turns out) ; so I backed off and said it is fine I accept your answer and explanation over THAT situation; my point is complete adoration and as I said above - I was the most handsome, smartest, sweetest, loving, EVERYTHING etc... .EVER for an extended period of time:  SUPPOSEDLY.  All too good to be true, and that's why I am upset at myself, among other things.

Classic emotional abuse tactics/examples

If you've never looked them up... .you are experiencing it.

FF

I have been out of the office today at a conference, but after not reaching out to her this morning via text she forwarded to me 24 loving texts I sent her that she saved, saying how she wanted me to read them before she deleted them and moved on with her life. I simply responded that she should go whine and complain to her lingering ex husband, not me. She responded how she doesn’t whine and complain; she conveniently omitted any reference to her ex husband in her reply. I have not responded.

All I know is that I have had other relationships in my life and I have NEVER had someone come on to me as hard as she did. I mean, this was not a short-term thing; for a long, long, long, time she acted as if she adored me; I definitely soaked in the adoration, and my ego was stroked, 24/7 for YEARS (other than the "bad times"; it was ALWAYS extremes; either incredibly good, or horribly bad like it is now).  I feel that she suckered me and I'm just a fool for falling for this; though nobody really knows just how hard she came at me and gave herself to me.  

Yes, I know the feeling. I thought I had, at last, found my soulmate. Because I had made a bad mistake in marrying my first husband (also BPD), I waited for a couple of years after he proposed before I agreed to marry him. During that time, he was the perfect fiance, but in retrospect, I see hints of BPD behaviors even then.

We got married and did a huge addition onto my little house, so I chalked up all sorts of "off" behaviors to stress: he divorced a few years before, he moved to a new area to be with me, he got a new job that paid considerably less than he was used to, and we were in the midst of this giant building project which had all sorts of complications.

It wasn't until years later that the full-blown BPD behavior showed itself, and that was during a time of relative calm. We'd finished the house project, were married and living together, he had inherited a vast sum of money after his nasty narcissistic father died. All should have been good, but then it all started to come apart at the seams.

Formflier had a similar experience with his wife. Her personality disorder didn't bloom until many years (and children) later, when a natural disaster struck their area.

Like others have said, consider yourself lucky to have foreknowledge before you've signed any official documents linking your lives together.

I, too, felt duped. But now I understand more about BPD, I believe my husband was mirroring me in the beginning and trying his best to only show his "good side"--but that's something we all do in the beginning of relationships--try to bring our best. After a while we're ok showing our partners some of the other, less desirable parts of our selves, as we lounge around the house in sweatpants, our hair uncombed.

With nons, the discrepancy between the initial "presenting persona" and the more "relaxed persona" isn't quite so great as it is with pwBPD, who desperately want to hide the shame and self-loathing they feel.

I think you may have been in this place before, and then, after some silence she comes back. Then, all is well for a while ( deciding that the incident with the ex husband and the lie never happened ) and then some other issue comes up and another blow up.

Every couple has disagreements, people make mistakes. A difference is that some couples are able to discuss and resolve them and some are not.

What just happened is how she does this, and the two of you end up with angry words and silence.

If she comes back after a cooling off period- you have two choices- this is what it is- this is your relationship- the good parts and this part. Or you decide you don't want a recycle.

You may not know what you want to do now, but IMHO, this is a pattern that seems to repeat itself in these relationships. You may be painted black now, but might also be painted white again.

@MarkDavid, I came across this on the net about (Jan) a year ago, go to the link, and scroll down and then start reading the posts by a commenter called “Uptown”; this one of the best “dissertations”; explanations I have come across yet, v/rRed5     

... .here is the link -> www.talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell-2.html#post473522

Great link and read. It actually freaks me out how much of that applies to me.  I’m not feeling too great now about her choice originally to “love” me, nor about my short term future.

Why does she say things that you know better not to say?

Because they hurt. When we think of people who are abusive, we think they are mean people who deliberately set out to hurt someone else because they get something out of it. Then we are confused when someone who seems to love us also does/says hurtful things. Then, after a period of cool off, the person seems genuinely remorseful and things are good for a while.

This is the abuse cycle- and it is what is confusing and also keeps the connections between two people- because in the moment, the person is doing/saying hurtful things and then seems genuinely loving later.

There is a statement "hurting people hurt others". Your SO has bad feelings about being caught in a lie and it projecting them on to you. You are hurting as well from being lied to and this leads to the two of you saying things to each other you might not ordinarily say. Perhaps there are degrees of judgment and dysregulation that are different between you. Everyone is a bit dysregulated when angry or hurt, but someone very dysregulated can say all kinds of things. If really dysregulated, they may not even remember them.

And there is also a manipulation aspect to this.

We don't have to excuse this behavior or tolerate it. However, this is how differences and frustrations tend to express themselves in a dysfunctional relationship. These dysregulations let off the steam. After that the bad feelings are gone and there could be a good period.

The choice is on you. Serious physical abuse is life threatening and a serious situation. Verbal abuse can be too, but in degrees. BPD is a spectrum disorder.

Being on an "off " point in your relationship gives you some space to think about this and make a choice. Yet, you know from the past that there could also be a chance to start this up again. You also can't avoid this person entirely since you see her at work. Your side of this is to let go of the drama. ( which may or may not include the relationship- that is your choice too). Yet, if you work with her, it could benefit you to not be emotionally reactive to what she says to you. If you feel she is untrustworthy and don't want a romantic relationship with her, this time "out" gives you the space to choose this too.

She texts me this morning “I am sorry but would it be possible to get my frying pan and glass Tupperware dish back before Thanksgiving? Thank you.”

So our routine is that I then take them to the office and put them in her office area. Which I will do (rather than throw them in the garbage which I actually would like to do). We have been through this little ritual 100 times.

@MarkDavid, yeah... .good advice, “dump the drama”, a used frying pan, and an eight pound hunk of glass, ... ., ... .hit the jettison button, enjoy your Sunday, YOUR day off, make today all about you, turn off the phone, and go and do something YOU want to do, & safe travels ! v/r Red5

  I have not responded.

Honestly... it would have been better to not respond to any of it.

FF

I understand that; that said, I don’t want to be accused of stealing her things.

Please remember the dynamic of the situation: we will be in the same office tomorrow so the drama could kick in at any given moment. 17 person office.

The usual dynamic is (1) she outwardly acts as happy as a person could possibly be and (2) she analyzes and assesses my mood from afar: am I sad, angry, withdrawn, happy - and then she takes action according to that. I say nothing to her during this time. It’s the twisted little game that is absolutely draining.

 I don’t want to be accused of stealing her things.

Quick “war story” …. and just for fun, ... .the "two box break up".

After I divorced my first wife of 21 years (eleven years ago & age 40), …. & despite my better judgment, I started dating again, after being “out of the game” since I was eighteen.

My first and only GF post-divorce, and prior to meeting my current exquisitely complex; and absolutely beautiful wife, … I met this red headed real estate agent, she drove a Volvo, and wore “driving gloves” … and wore an aggressive pair of sun glasses, yeah, …. She was a real cutie (hottie) !

She said “hi there” … and off to the races we went.

We dated for about ten-eleven months, won’t go into all of that here; but she was a “pistol”, and a lot of fun, and train (two trainloads!) loads of drama! … another appropriate word may be “train wreck”.

She was also a recent “divorcee”, albeit not as recent as I was …. she called me her “rebound relationship”, and she called me “baby-cakes” … and she “love bombed me to smithereens” …. I did not stand a chance; my position was completely over run !… it was like I had been released from the Siberian gulag, and she was my very first contact in the “free world”.

We had some pretty explosive fights, … oh’ yes we did, …as I do believe she liked (loved the drama she created) to fight, I believe now that she exhibited several of the “pd'ed behaviors traits” (you think!) …. But at the time, (knowledge of pd’s), … I was a green thumb, inexperienced, tender foot, boot, baby duck …. ie’ clueless, …. yes sir, she was something else, she “gobbled me right up”!, …. she used to tell me her ex-husband was a “narcissist”, and at the time, I did not even know what that meant ().

For dates, she would drag me off to Al-Anon meetings, and also to her weekly “T” appointments … yeah, she was a “soup sandwich” as we referred to in the USMC, … & I was still on active duty at that time, … did I mention, she was also a former Marine as well ().

NOTAMS !



Marine Corps r/s survival rule #? …... never, … I say again NEVER (ever) marry another Marine ()… not even a “former Marine”, nope, don’t do it!

Yeah, she was playing me big time, and I had no clue, but it was fun to feel alive again after just having been released from the gulag you see …. She was “all over the map”, … and all over me, ie’ adoration phase, …. Then one day out of the clear blue  ... .she told me that she thought I was getting “bored” with her (projection ), …. So she started telling me she wanted to get married, and quickly (false flag operation) … I was like no way sweetie, I just got off the boat myself, and I am not nowhere ready for that “trip” again … so then she initiated operation “devalue” … you see, she was the one who was bored, she was a hot rod, & raring to go, and I was having a hard time keeping up … but it was fun trying ….

Anyways, I will get to the point of my silly little story here, as I am now sure that she was multiple star cluster pd’ed … we “broke up” a lot, …during the curse of our r/s ( I love you , I hate you), she would “give” me things, and also leave things over at “my place”, …. and so when (each time) I would get dumped, she would then immediately demand all her gear back, … pronto, ASLAP !

"Push / Pull" ... .Chop Chop, Hubba Hubba !

Marines follow orders, so I would dutifully and carefully pack up all her “gear” into a box, and then take it across town to “her place” … and leave it on her doorstep, as instructed … then a short time later (hoo-ver) we would “make up” again … and then she would again start to collect “stuff” (stage/forward operating base) over at my place, then the inevitable (recycle) dump-ex would ensue … but this time, it would take (took) two boxes to transfer all her gear back across town to her place … this is the point of this story, as we approached the sundown and end of our r/s, …. ie’ the discard, …. she would “dress me down” in regards to the “one box break up” … and the “two box break up” …. LoL !

So @MarkDavid, your “frying pan” break up reminded me of the ole’ “one-two box break up “ daze ….

I have said it here before, if you can’t find a small glimmer of humor here, make a little fun sometimes, you are dead !

“two box break up” …...

Safe travels friend !

v/r Red5

This is a hard question, but do you think you over reacted?

She lied. Clearly. She has a double standard and didn't want to let you know. Both of these things suck. At the same time, exs coparent birthdays all the time.

Was there a better way to handle this? Should you have confronted her in a constructive way to understand what this was all about. Would a solution have been for both or you to co-parent birthdays with your ex going forward. Or something else.

As you say, you have recycled 1,000 times. This is how you two fight.

I'd really encourage you to spend time on Improving if you do reconnect.

So, what do you think this was all about?

So she could double talk away around it not being a "party" per se last week Sunday, but so what.  He was around.  My kids didn't get the benefit of that; hers shouldn't either.  Her kids are no more special than my kids; my kids shouldn't have to get the short end of the stick, while her kids get the preferred experiences.

And I will find happiness with someone who loves me every day.  Not just sporadically.  Every day.  I have the chance to find that now. . . .  I will find someone that wants an equal relationship with me.  Someone who stays.  Someone who doesn't abandon me."

What are you most mad about... .can you rate these (1-10)

That she was deceitful and hiding something from you?
That her kids get better co-parenting than your kids?
That she didn't feel guilty and apologize,try to make it right?
That you think she is trying to reconnect with her ex?

After you realized what happened, what was the best outcome you could have hoped for? Her to admit and apologize? The relationship to end and you find someone else? Other?

Just trying to help you sort this... .

What are you most mad about... .can you rate these (1-10)

That she was deceitful and hiding something from you?
That her kids get better co-parenting than your kids?
That she didn't feel guilty and apologize,try to make it right?
That you think she is trying to reconnect with her ex?

After you realized what happened, what was the best outcome you could have hoped for? Her to admit and apologize? The relationship to end and you find someone else? Other?

Just trying to help you sort this... .

she don’t want me no more she said last week, so I have to take her at her word

Haven't you been down this road before and reconnected?

It seems like you want to solve this, but at the same time, you have ver strong emotions at play which are more about breaking the relationship down.

I'm not trying to talk into going back (or leaving)... .I am saying that you seem at cross purposes with yourself... .you want "A" and you are forcing "B" to happen.

Do you have any factual reason to think that she is reconnecting with the ex?