BPDFamily.com

Hello,

I am normally active in the failed/detachment boards, but because of the topic title I thought this was the best place to post.

My story in short: strong friendship with a girl for about 2,5 years. Sudden change in her behaviour as she started painting me black. The devaluation phase was horrible and I never saw it coming At times she seemed to split white again... .but eventually I couldn't deal with the Silent Treatment anymore and asked her if she truly wanted to cut off all contact. She confirmed she did in a weird and concise message.

2 months later I wished her a Merry Christmas and she wished me the same as well. I was happy and hoped to be able to achieve a situation of Low Contact. So I have sent her 2 or 3 very concise and lighthearted messages since Christmas. She did not reply.

I would really like to achieve a situation in which low contact is possible. To be able to get to hear how she is doing. I would really like to get your help with this.

Questions like:
-) how long should I wait?
-) should all messages be lighthearted or trivial even? Or should I try and directly ask her for the possibility of LC?

Some complicating factors:

-) a lot of people believe her behaviour was triggered by getting feelings for me. I doubted that for a very long time, but I later learned there might be quite some truth in this...
-) I just assumed for a long time that the problem was ME. That she might have gotten the impression that I was suddenly interested in being more than friends. I know for a fact that two of her friends were always talking about us in such a way... .trying to influence her.
-) I DID learn these past months that I DO have feelings for her. So maybe she noticed that even a lot earlier than I did myself?
-) I am extremely afraid of her painting me black. And of her splitting in general. So I am walking on eggshells.

Hi EdR,

Welcome to the bettering board. In the past, how often did you guys talk? Was there a point where too much communication seemed to overwhelm her? Has she initiated conversation first?

If you think that starting to dialogue with her would be a possibility, you might check out our workshop on Validation and SET. This could be a way to start moving beyond niceties to a full on conversation, especially by just asking her questions when she shares something with you, even small somethings.

Hi EdR

There are a lot of similarities in your story and mine.
Close female friend, seemingly split black multiple times, silent treatments multiple times, blocked on social media multiple times, there's even been times where I wondered if she wants something more due to things she's said. I could write an essay but I fear I'd be hijacking your thread 
We too are currently not talking. I sent her a Christmas card with an Amazon voucher in it; I've seen a post of hers on social media that showed the card displayed on her shelf, and had an email from Amazon advising the voucher had been redeemed... .no thank you or any response though. Saw her exiting a shop opposite work a week or so ago, sent her an IM (we work in the same building) saying hi, that she looked well and I hoped that's the case... .no response. That's all I've tried since October.
Bloody frustrating isn't it?

I can't offer anything regarding LC as I have no experience of that myself, just wanted to show some support as people dealing with BPD friends are in the minority. You're not alone  :)

Thank you CMJ! I really appreciate your input! There was this member who had a similar situation as well on the failed/detachment boards, but unfortunately he left after the creation of his thread.
So I am 'glad' to have another member in a similar position. Thanks!

Hi Tattered Heart! Yeah, I posted my original story months ago, but I'll try to answer your questions in a concise way:

-) there was digital and real life (=face to face, 'irl' from now on) contact. One could say she almost always initiated the irl contact. I most of the times initiated digital contact. There was no real difference between them; she was just as open irl as digitally. She WAS a very different person around her two best female friends though.
-) I noticed a change in her irl contact after more than 2 years. She became more... .well... .shy... .evasive. I asked her about it, but she said nothing was the matter.
-) my feelings were right though as at some point things started to go haywire. There was no irl communication possible anymore and limited digital communication. I asked her several times to talk about the situation in person, but she suddenly only wanted to talk about it digitally.
-) the digital communication just seemed to not work at all. I was painted black and thus she split black.

Hi there!

A long term BPD friend (think 20+ years) is what brought me here.

In the past my friend has always returned. The best advice I can give you is to just be polite and open. My friend has utilized ST for numerous reasons in the past, with various desired effects. Sometimes she does it to "punish" me, sometimes she does it in hopes that I will grovel and "fight for"'our friendship, other times she cannot emotionally handle seeing someone else be happy or have the things she would like in life.

There are times we've had NC and she always reappears, even if out last connection was years prior and ended on a negative note.

That being said, you cannot "make" someone speak to you, even if it's only occasionally to check on their well being. You say she isn't responding to your messages, have you considered sending a message that says "I care about your well being. I'm open to communicating if you ever feel comfortable re establishing communication." And then just maybe letting it be? That's a way to let her know directly how you feel. Don't include "this is the last time I'll ask" or anything of thy nature in which she might feel pressured or frustrated to respond.

This gives her the power she's looking for and also defuses the situation a bit, she's isnt having to guess what your angle is in sending her a silly message or talking about the weather.

Just a thought.

Taking this on the back of a compliment that she will endear... .

I think the options really depend on what you have said already. What did you say and how long ago... .

Hi RDMaggie!

Thank you for your reply. I have said something like you proposed in my (not so) final communication when she confirmed to want to cut off all contact. Very open, very gentle etc... My next communication was more than 2 months after that by sending a concise "Merry Christmas" text, to which she did reply.

I do care a lot about her, but I am very hesitant to use the word 'caring' right now in my texts. It seems to be a possible emotional trigger... .And I am quite afraid of the possible consequences of triggering her.

I know I can not MAKE her reply. And that's not my intention. I just wish to learn what my best chances are at re-establishing some form of low contact.

Then I would not say it again.

You exchanged two words at Christmas. She responded. If you have some safe news, share that. See if she responds.

Thanks Skip! What would you personally consider to be 'safe'? (Any member may chime in   )
Can it be a question? Or just an update how I am doing?

I would think of:
-) something not TOO big
-) something not too SMALL or trivial (otherwise she may feel engulfed)
-) something absolutely non-emotional (or am I wrong here?... .  Emotional communication was very much present during the idealisation phase)

"Hey, how's it going?"

"Thinking of you. What have you been up to?"

Casual. Limited. No pressure. Simple.

These might possibly come off as rekindling efforts as said above. 

I think, "hey, I finally climbed My Everest".  Not person. Not reconnecting. Easy to respond to.

Booking my trip as we speak :-p

I understand that your intentions are noble, however from a female perspective if I had been clear that I wanted NC from an individual, especially a male who I may or may not have had deeper feelings for at one point, I would be very offput by that person not respecting my boundaries. It's not BPD exclusive, people are allowed to end contact with an individual.

I have been in similar situations, where contact was ended by myself and my desire was clearly stated. When that individual continued contacting me, even about "safe" topics and I never once responded, it made me uncomfortable. It's hard to say what her rationale is behind the NC and it could very well be distorted thoughts, as is common with BPD.

I would suggest sending a final message something to the effect that I mentioned, and leaving out the caring part if you believe that will be a trigger.

If she had ignored two communications, I would say it is done until she contacts you. RDMaggie is right, no means no, and it certainly means no if communications are ignored.

Given that she responded to your last communication, you are probably alright to go one more, but if that is not answered, that should be the end of it.

Hi RDMaggie,

I know... .that's what makes me a little uncomfortable too. But it is just really hard. I do not understand and I feel like ending all contact without the possibility of a final ending conversation or other form of closure is cruel as well. We are not talking about some random guy or girl I met at a party or something. It feels more like my sister is asking me to go NC without any explanation. I would not want to cross her boundaries, but I would certainly still love her. So I couldn't do it in the long run.

I thought about this before I started this thread. The only other option I see is this:
Honestly explain her that I still would appreciate to hear from her from time to time and ask her whether or not that would be possible.

For me that would probably be the most noble and honest thing to do. However as is also clear from the replies in this thread, it probably is not the best approach... .

Please help me guys if I am wrong. I just think this is hard... .

Then it is already too late. I managed to remain NC for those 2 months until my Christmas message. But I asked her how she was doing weeks later. She did not reply.

Then she knows your thoughts.

... .and her actions say, don't contact me.

Times change, things change, feelings change and one day she may take you up on your offer, but the ball is in her court now.

That's not very settling, I know. It's a very difficult thing to work through. Silence is hard.

Its the right thing to do.

So I shouldn't do the "honestly explain her that I still would appreciate to hear from her from time to time and ask her whether or not that would be possible" thing either? Not even in a few months?

That's gonna be hard... .I just wish she could do LC... .That would be so much easier for me... .and my guess is... for her as well.

She is an adult and she could have responded to the notes you send and she didn't. Even if it is better for her, that's not your call.

It's really hard.

I had two women in my life that had this approach to past relationships - the doors were closed forever.

One of them was a very mature, intelligent women and this was her idea of healthy. I know when I dated her, I never questioned if she had men in her orbit. I liked that. I appreciated this when O dated her... .it was a little hard after we broke up because even 5 years after the fact, we had an opportunity to chat and she didn't want to.

The other one was an adult child of an alcoholic and she had attachment  issues. She had zero contact with past relationships, had no gifts, no mementos, nothing - when we split, she didn't want any contact with me. When she got married and dumped all her friends and had her husband dump his. Most think this is a bit odd. I see her a few times a year, I know better than to even make eye contact. It is what it is.

Life goes on.

Thanks Skip. I appreciate your honesty. I will do my very best to respect the NC and stop worrying about her.

It is a long and difficult process, but like you said: it is what it is.

I should try and wear my mental armour when I see her again. Last time she greeted me  just after ignoring my 'how are you doing' text. That's confusing, but something I should work on I guess... .

Why not just go with the flow... .if she reaches out publicly be gracious.

She may not want to talk to you for fear she will send mixed signals.

My vote is a strong no. She's made it clear in both her words and her behavior she isn't intetested in contact. She knows she can contact you if she wants. It's hard but just stay strong.

So I had a night's sleep... .at least I slept, but it feels like I am back at square one.

Now I am back trying to rationally explain her behaviour. Is she afraid of sending out mixed signals? Does she hate me? Why? Is she afraid to catch more feelings? Is she afraid of me wanting more? But then... .why the extreme behaviour? Why the sudden change from seeing me as 'the best [insert any compliment here]' or 'the only normal [insert something else here]' to... .well... .complete devaluation and now discard?

All kinds of similar questions haunt me.

I know exactly what you mean, I get thoughts like that too.
Why don't I deserve a proper goodbye/closure? How can she treat me this way after all the support and encouragement I've shown her over the years? What did she mean when she did X? Why can't she help me understand her position so I can do the right thing? Surely displaying the card I sent shows it meant something to her, but if so why not say thanks? etc etc They do begin to fade with time and as you learn more.

Can I just ask, is this the first time she's behaved this way towards you?
I ask as my friend has reinforced with me that she never intends for it to be permanent. If I give her enough time and then reach out in a friendly way she's always come back. She's even thanked me for not giving up on her before.

For example; the first time she cut me off she threatened to report me if I kept contacting her. This was before I knew about BPD, before I learned to take a look at my own behaviour, and I was suffering from depression at the time too. One week I'd contact her angry, the next pleading, the next JADEing because I just couldn't understand how she could just cut me off mid conversation. It really hurt to have someone I thought I had a close connection with to suddenly seem to see me as worthless. When she said she'd report me, I responded with something along the lines of "Ok, if you're going to resort to threats I'll not speak to you anymore". She then got all defensive and tried explaining that she wasn't threatening. Surely if you wanted someone gone you'd be glad they finally got the message and be unconcerned about their opinion of you?

The fact she wished you a merry Christmas too strikes me as similar. I'm sure that if you or I were in her position and got a merry Christmas text from someone we didn't wish to hear from, we'd have ignored it instead of responding so as not to encourage further communication attempts.

Thank you CMJ. I would like to stress that I really, really appreciate your help. I am really happy to have found some people who are in a similar situation.

To answer your question: the answer depends on the perspective. For me the 2,5 year hallmark was when the devaluation started. Before that I would have never thought about BPD. Well... .I actually did in a way... I thought 'wow... I am so happy this is different than my previous equally close friendship with a woman (a BPD experience) . So it is possible for a person to remain "normal" and  "sane". Before the devaluation I just saw the "idealisation phase" as her true normal behaviour.

But if one would look closely into this devaluation phase, there were times when she tried to re-establish contact or seemed to have split white again. But all of those were eventually swiftly followed by another round of devaluation.
So was it one big devaluation phase or several smaller ones?  

The strongest and most lasting return to form was before the summer holidays. I congratulated her and all of a sudden I was her "favourite [... .]" again and she seemed just as spontaneous as before.
One exception: she did NOT want to talk about what happened before. I feel that simple fact eventually built up to a new or continued devaluation phase after more than 2 months.
She than more or less showed erratic behaviour (loudly greeting me on the street, knocking on the bus window etc., but at the same time ignoring my communication). That's when I told her how confusing this all is and whether or not this meant she wanted to cut off all contact?
That was October 2017.

We women, we're conditioned from a very young age to be nice, be polite, and be very careful not to hurt men's feelings--and for good reason. Rejecting a man can be a delicate situation, we never know how he'll react. Men have been known to stalk, to get angry or violent, and even kill women who reject them. Sometimes, a woman might tell a man she's not interested in having contact--and she means it, but then, she might feel bad that he's trying to be nice, and we don't want to appear to be a total b***h. Maybe she was feeling good and calm for a minute, and she replied to a text, briefly and politely, hoping to diffuse your bad feelings and keep the peace. I can totally see myself doing this/have done this trying to keep a man from hating me. It is NOT meant as invitation to more contact.

Of course, I don't know for sure that's what's going on here, could be something totally different, it's all pure speculation what's going on in another person's head. But, like I said, I can totally see myself returning a merry xmas text from someone I don't actually want contact from just to keep the peace and so I come off as a kind, reasonable human, you know? Or, she's messing with your head. Either way, it's best to back off.

I get that... .but I am not that kind of guy. And she could and should know. The worst thing I did was to say I didn't understand the idiocy of her behaviour. She went even more haywire after that.

That was after she did something... .well... .not so nice... And before I accepted that she was indeed showing BPD traits.

She basically did some horrible stuff, but I never lost my temper or did anything to hurt her. That is truly the only case in which I was 'less nice'. But even then I did NOT attack her personally. I never called her an idiot or something.

But tbh in her devaluation phase it didn't and doesn't even matter what I do or don't do. It all will be used against me... . 

Lady Itone

I'd not considered it that way. I agree not crowding her is the best way forward.


Hard to tell. Feelings = facts, and the feelings can change at the drop of a hat.
The lack of consistancy can be incredibly frustrating as you don't know how to proceed. Does she really want you gone? Is she wanting you to prove you care? Is she projecting on to you? Does she have a new "favourite" but is keeping you on hold as backup? It puts you in limbo as you don't know whether to prepare for life without them or not. You feel sort of stuck.

Hard as it is, leave her be for now and do your own thing. Spend time with other friends and family, do what makes you happy, and try not to wait for her. If she's made attempts to reconnect in the past chances are she will again.

Take solace in the fact that you're not doomed to repeat this loop, as the "healthier" adult you're able to cultivate long lasting and meaningful friendships. If your friend is anything like mine, she'll burn through friends like there's no tomorrow, and be left with just acquaintances that don't really know her or care all that much. You should hear what some of her "friends" say about her behind her back. Sad thing is she once said to me that she knows she'll end up alone if she carries on acting this way, and yet... .

Tbh It's not like I have this can of friends ready to be opened. I recently told people in another thread that that's basically something which developed slowly but surely. I never needed a lot of friends, just a few good ones.
However, for the past few years I noticed that we were slowly growing apart. Moving across the country, leaving the country and in most cases family life came around the corner.
It's not like they are not there anymore. But it is different.

Regarding her: she is like a chameleon. She told me about her old friends and I would think her true self (if there is any true core personality left) is very much like them. Shy, not very social, but very kind.
They weren't popular though and she left them for two popular 'mean girl' types. She has been with them for years and they started to say it is weird she was spending so much time with me (and I blame them more than I blame her). She is a totally different person around them. Her old personality still shines through when she is not with them though.

But it is like a strange r/s. She 'needs' them to live the popular life. Go with parties to them etc. etc.
They 'need' her because she attracts a lot of guys because of her looks. And she is someone who they can play 'Queen Bee' over. She is the 'follower' in her friend group. They don't even treat her well... .

If you guys allow me, I will perhaps update this topic from time to time for therapeutic effect 

I managed to get some sleep again, which is great. I still feel have all these questions in my head, but it seems to be manageable today. Still feels s***ty though...

So I caved... .

I sent her a short message asking if she perhaps would like to send the occasional update again. I said that I was sorry to perhaps go against her wish for NC and that I thought the complete silence was hard, but I said I would respect it if she wouldn't want to.

She probably will not even read or receive the message. I feel conflicted... .on the one hand I feel terrible for maybe not doing the right thing. On the other hand I am like: dude... .you did nothing wrong.

I am ill right now... .so that clearly weakened my resolve to respect her boundary... .

Hi EdR.

I hope you don't mind if I join the conversation late.

I'm sorry you are feeling ill.    Yes that will lower your will power.   and effect your judgement.    I hope you are taking care of yourself?    Drinking lots of fluids?    Eating something reasonably healthy? 

 
I want to pick up on this for a minute.    Feelings=facts and they change rapidly.     what I learned was that my Ex experienced harmfully intense emotions that could and did swing a huge range within minutes.    The feeling of the moment was the one that mattered.     and she was convinced it was totally true,  there was nothing she could do about it,  and it would last forever.

I mention this because if you get a response,   it will be in reaction to whatever she feels at the moment.    If she is feeling good,  happy,  you will get a good and happy response.   If she is upset and struggling it's more likely you will get a more negative response.     Either way it's not planned, and there is no long term goal.

if you get a response are you prepared for that?   regardless if it's a positive or negative response?   can you see that it's much more about how she copes/deals with her emotions than it is about you and the relationship?

and if you don't get a response what will that mean for you?

thanks for hosting a good thread
'ducks

Hi babyducks!


Thanks for your post. I have been coughing and sneezing for a couple of days now, but today is my weakest day so far. Doing the standard flu stuff... .hope it gets better soon.

I don't expect a reply from her. I do HOPE to get one, but my guess is she will not reply or she won't even read it. It's easy to ignore texts on Messenger by using some kind of option and that way she would not be tempted to react.
Perhaps I should have mailed instead of using the Messenger service... .idk

Too late now though... .

I know her emotions have always played a significant role: most of the times she replied within 15 minutes. But I guess using an 'ignore' option would take away those 'heat of the moment' feelings. Whether they would have been positive or negative.

Still feeling ill guys... .and feeling not so great mentally because of this as well.

I know this sounds stupid, but I could use some support. :-(

Hi EdR,

I am sorry to hear you aren't feeling better.   This has been a bad year for the flu... .and it's nothing to mess around with.    give yourself an easy day physically... .and mentally too.    

One suggestion for when you are feeling better.    Over on the right hand side of the scroll bar  |--->  there is a link that pops up that says "what does it take to make it"   and the first line in the link says this:


What do you think it means?   Strength, patience and knowledge?    How do you see strength, patience and knowledge fitting into your situation?    How much strength, patience and knowledge do you think are needed?  

I read once here that to be in a relationship (any kind of close personal relationship) with a pwBPD or the traits of the disorder you needed to be very strong within yourself... .our self image, our ability to withstand stress, our ability to accept things we can not change.    

take a moment and dig into that.


I know you really hoped to get a response.    I am wondering why.    Not a rhetorical question.   You read a lot of good thoughts upstream.    about not over pursuing.   about respecting her need for space.   about understanding her need for space may be temporary or it may not... . 

what I noticed is you really worked at figuring out how to get a message through to her,   which service is easier to set to ignore... .   and the word that came to mind is compelled.   Compulsion.   Working on our relationship skills,  working on our understanding of relationship is a positive regardless of what happens with our pwBPD.    What do you think drove you to contact her?    What emotion?   and what relationship skill was in play here?    

I know these are tough questions.    I know the answers won't spring readily to mind.     I really believe the answers are part of the 'strength, patience and knowledge'   that the link was talking about.

'ducks

Hi babyducks!

Thank you. Yes, it is some kind of urge. Where does it come from? What causes it?
I have thought about that before... .I thought about my past and present. I don't think there is this great thing in my past which have caused this.

Some things I CAN say however are:
-) could just about anybody trigger this behaviour in me? The answer is a clear NO. I don't like it when people would ignore me and I might ask them about it. But that's about it really. It ends then and there. However it is the closeness of the friendship with her which causes this inside of me. I don't understand it emotionally. How could I feel this emotional connection, but could it be severed so easily and suddenly?
-) what are my true feelings towards her? I have spend days thinking about this. Do I love her? Is that the cause of all of this?
My answer is not a 'yes', but at the same time not a clear 'no' either.
I know I care a lot about her and I do think she is very pretty. But are my feelings really that different from those for my sister? I don't think so.
Could they have become romantic? Well... .I guess so. But are they know?
-) I AM and WAS quite emotionally invested in this r/s / friendship. She shared stuff she didn't share with anyone else. And it's like she denies she ever confided in me that much.
-) I do wonder more and more about her true feelings. With so many people and experts claiming she was catching feelings for me and some of the signals I always tried to rationally deny... .it is like... .is this all because you more than just liked me?

Perhaps I do not have the patience... .But that is probably due to fear of losing contact with her forever.
Like I said before: she is pretty and has these outgoing, extravert, but superficial 2 friends. She will have her share of attention and supply of superficial friends through them for the coming years. She won't need me anymore I guess.

It is REALLY weird, but truth be told: I feel like I am the one abandoning her if I would give up completely. Which should be the other way around, but that is how it feels.
Perhaps this somewhat ties in with this: In the back of my mind I fear that some day she will not be able to cope with the superficial nature of her life and commit suicide.
She clearly fits the archetype of the girl I knew (no r/s, no friendship) almost 10 years ago.
Although that may sound like the most probable cause for my behaviour, it really is something in the back of my mind.

Last but not least I would like to say something about me sending her texts.
I DO feel like I am not doing the right thing and I feel terrible about that.
But I also feel like: what are we really talking about? It is not like I am sending multiple messages a day. Not even multiple messages a week. I have managed to go through more than 2 months without any sign of life from my side. I am NOT pouring my heart out or something like that. I am not crying, yelling or doing any of those things.
I know where she works, I know where she hangs out, I know where she lives, which sportclub she goes to etc. etc... She made sure to tell me all that without me even asking. Still I never used that knowledge to meet her and talk this through.

And yet... .I feel like her silence is almost making me feel like a stalker...

Nice post EdR -   |iiii

there is a lot in there to work with... .what I was thinking as I read what you wrote is how do we create intimacy?    how does one become emotionally invested?    and what does that mean.

I've been told by people who experienced it that people who share an intense emotional experience create a different type of bond.   For example:  total strangers who survive a disaster together become bonded at a deeper and different level.     the sudden intimacy of being together in a building that is on fire... .  crosses over the ordinary and expected boundaries of intimacy.   

I think some of that is in play for me.    I had conversations with my Ex that were totally unique.    and we spoke at a very different level.    right up until we couldn't.    there weren't a lot of boundaries between us and that was both a good and a bad thing.    I miss those conversations.   I know that it's not in my best interests, either emotionally or psychologically to put any more energy into those conversations.   doesn't mean I don't miss them.

'ducks

That's the same for me. The fact that she showed a different side of her around me,  that she put off her mask. That she told me so much about herself, her life and her emotions and feelings.
In some areas she needed a lot of help and I was able to give her that help.

That was both a blessing and a curse in hindsight. That created this strong emotional connection within me and I am sure it was the same for her.

But she just couldn't cope with such a strong emotional connection and I think that was something she did NOT know/expected beforehand. Just before the devaluation she told me the most emotional stuff.

That's when it became a curse. For me, but probably somewhere deep down for her as well.

I will echo Lady Itone's response:

Women are conditioned to be polite.

If it helps, think of it like this:

For one reason or another you end contact with a girl. You explicitly tell her you want no contact, she continues messaging you anyway. You work in the same area and you happen to bump into one another, she says hi. You say hi but keep going. At Christmas you get a barrage of "Merry Christmas" messages, some from numbers you don't even know, and so you return the greeting without paying attention to who sent it (let's say you deleted her as a contact and she's no longer saved in your phone.)

What would you think if this girl interpreted you acknowledging her "hi" and returning her "merry Christmas" as a dismissal of your clearly expressed desire to have no contact?

Hi RDMaggie,

I appreciate your effort, but tbh it feels like I have typed my previous posts for no reason at all then.

We have already established this 'right thing to do' and I also said multiple times that I feel terrible about it.

I think this thread was moving in a different direction. At least I hoped so. More in depth, more able to help me further.

But this sets me back really.

And for the record: I wouldn't put 'banging on the bus window to get my attention' on the same level as 'saying hi'.

Her feelings changed and probably still change. That's for sure. But I was having difficulty accepting this. Just like almost everyone else on these boards.
And if you have any kind of emotional connection, that's tough. It's not like: "oh... my daughter confirmed that she wanted NC. So let's leave her be for the rest of our lives"
That's not natural either...

Hi EDR,

I have gone back and reread the five pages of your post, but I can't find anything about banging on a bus window. I missed something I guess.

I can certainly empathize with you being given the ST/having someone go Nc. I have been in a similar position with another friend. I know how hard it can be when someone you've been incredibly close with suddenly cuts contact. I had a friend of the opposite sex that I was very close with from childhood until age 20. He supported me through the death of my father and I supported him through the sudden loss of his brother. Then one day, poof. NC. I never got closure or any real answer and I was gutted.

I want you to feel supported. I also want to help give you some insight as to how your behavior might be perceived. I don't doubt that you care for your friend and want nothing but the best for her, what your action/behavior says is "I don't respect your boundaries." --- As difficult as it is to accept, she doesn't owe you a reason or closure.

I'm not trying to suggest you shouldn't care or be hurt by her actions.

Best wishes

Thank you RDMaggie!

Yeah... .I have posted quite a lot about this situation here, but probably less in this thread then.
When she began her devaluation phase there were a lot of mixed signals. That's been no different for more than a year now. I already said to her at the very start of that phase that it would probably be for the best if I would not contact her for a while. But back then both she AND her parents said explicitly that was not what she wanted.
I did NOT understand. There seemed and seems to be this big discrepancy. I asked her to talk about it, but we never had that talk. She pretended nothing was the matter and nothing ever happened. But in the mean time I was painted black.
There were several small moments of her reaching out or at least giving mixed signals after that.

There was this sudden return to form just before the summer holidays. More than half a year after the start of the devaluation.
But eventually she went haywire again. I asked her to talk about it and she only agreed to text about it at a specific time.
She did not follow through though... .

I was completely devastated and fed up with the situation. That was September. I sent her this nice final mail for closure, just focusing on me and the positive aspects. That would have been the very end.
She suddenly replied though. She greeted me extremely loudly on the street.
In the same week she greeted me from the bus stop.
AND she was banging on the bus window to get my attention.

It seemed like she DID want the contact. But I suggested it just to be minimized to birthdays, special events and congratulations for the time being.

In October she won a medal at a specific event. So I concisely congratulated her. She did NOT reply however. I felt gutted. AGAIN. I did not lose my temper and asked her nicely about his a while later.
NO reply.
That's when I texted her I did not understand and found this very confusing. I ended my text by asking her: does this mean you want to cut off all contact?

And that's when she almost copied my final sentence a few days later in a very weird mail.


Yeah... .I feel gutted as well.

Hi EdR,


a couple of thoughts about this... .

my experience was that people with BPD don't have masks... .not in that they are covering 'a true self'... .they often change their persons, opinions or beliefs depending on who they are with.   because they have an unstable sense of self... .or an incomplete one they mirror back the people they are around.   

so yes she probably mirrors back her two friends.     and yes she mirrored back you in your relationship with her.    it took me a long time to catch on to the fact that my Ex mirrored me back... .and the person I grew to care for so deeply was... .well... .Me.    or a reflection of me.   No wonder I wanted so badly to help and support.

so let me ask?    are you convinced that there is nothing down this road for you?   that attempting to communicate is not productive?

'ducks

I would like to answer with a big 'YES', but I would be lying.

I am aware of the concept of mirroring and I believe that has taken place. But like I said before on these boards, I don't believe in the 'I was in love with myself' (or friends with in this case). That's just too convenient.

Mirroring is not BPD exclusive. And tbh the people who are considered to be the most social are often the ones who use this technique the most.

You are right. This is human nature and a necessary component of socializing. pwBPD can do it to an extreme. Where it breaks down is when someone mirrors to the point that they are self sacrificing and become resentful about it later. This is also common in people with BPD traits.

I feel she wasn't self-sacrificing in her mirroring behaviour towards ME. I don't think the mirroring of me was extreme. The person she seemed to be around me, seemed to be way closer to the girl she was in primary school according to friends and family.
I DO feel her mirroring of her 2 friends is extreme.
Music taste, clothing, makeup, choice in friends, parties etc. etc...

I would say THAT mirroring almost forced her to change her attitude towards me. Don't know if I explained it well enough though... .

How're things going EdR?

Hi CMJ! Thanks for checking in on me; I really appreciate that  |iiii

I didn't contact her anymore and I haven't seen her these last few weeks, what helps... .at least to some extent. From time to time I still feel like I am in a bad place; I still just don't get it and it makes me feel sad to be honest.

But I try to move forward. I'm just not really sure how. I don't want to jump in and try to start making new -best?- friends... .I feel like they would be able to sense that I am a little shaken and confused socially. But doing nothing is not a great option either... .
For now, I am just focussing on work and everyday chores ;-)