BPDFamily.com

So, it's time for my 18 year marriage to come to an end. I suppose that if it has been up to me, this would have dragged out a number of months before I filed. Honestly, I thought she was going to wait out the summer and maybe even the fall to see if things improved.

But she didn't wait, she filed. So I am officially the Respondent, and here we are.

I met with my attorney for an hour today to go over some initial details, and it turns out my STBXw has hired a notoriously difficult attorney. It figures. She's been notoriously difficult herself for 18 years. Seems her attorney is a perfect fit.

I suppose I should back up a few days, and mention that I was informed by my wife that she was filing for divorce via a text message. I was on the west coast, and she was home on the east coast. She packed up for a week away, took our daughter and our dog, and went with her mother in law to a weekly rental somewhere in a nearby town. She isn't sharing exactly where she is, but I have a pretty good idea.

When I got the initial news, I contacted my attorney and asked what I could, or should, do, and her advice was to not jump up and down. Don't make things worse at this point, she said. She said, send your wife a BIFF e-mail that states you did not discuss and agree on a week-long vacation with our daughter alone. She said to state that you are requesting reciprocal time upon their return. I also set out a proposed schedule for the next month.

My STBX did not respond, and simply redirected my note to her attorney.

Fast forward to our meeting today, and according to her attorney, the complaint is still with the process server and they're attempting to redirect it to my attorney, so neither I nor my attorney have seen the complaint yet. We did confirm that one was on the way, though. We also came to the conclusion that direct communication with my wife will probably not be productive or even possible. So, she suggested, work on a parenting schedule, and we will submit that to her attorney with a restatement of the e-mail I sent. If they reject the proposed agreement, which we sort of assume they will, then we file for a hearing and set things up right the first time.

I've learned my lesson here and from every other friend who is an attorney (apparently I have quite a few?) that it's next to impossible to change the status quo once it's been established.

So, 2 full days after landing back at my empty home, I've been fully immersed in the Family Law, Custody, Co-parenting, and Divorce world. Can't say I'm GLAD to be here, but I'm glad everyone is here ;-)

Any advice or insight on the above? Overall I'm happy with the plan, but man, this is only day 2, and what a ride already!

~DB77

DaddyBear77:

Man... .so sorry you're here.

Real quick: after my uBPDxw emailed me her intention to file for divorce SIX days after walking out, I just handled all legal communication via my attorney. It's a more expensive route, yes, but one that I felt I needed to undertake for my own sanity. My uBPDxw walked out of a house (that I paid for in full in 2008 before we married), our kid is not biologically mine (I informally adopted her), and we have an identical income - so the court ruled that I didn't owe her a dime.

Regardless, I will be financially assisting our kid with college because I choose to. That starts this year.

While you and I both married pwBPD, I do think that our settlement situations are different enough that I wouldn't be any help to you in that regard, but I do think you're on the right track as far as hiring a female attorney and digging into the legal crap early.

With you ALL the way... .til it's done.


-Speck

Hey DB,

Alrighty then.  You've got this.  You are an organized thinker, in control of your emotions, have a strong bond with your daughter, are educated on the issues, have a good working relationship with your lawyer, and are well supported here and elsewhere.  And all of that was in place before the first "shot" was fired.  You are prepared for this.

This is a bit of a random thought, but I wanted to share it.  One thing that is typical in a custody evaluation is a session where the evaluator observes a parent and child for about an hour, as they play games, do a craft project together, etc.  In one recent session I'm aware of, the parent was able to bring the props (a game, a craft project).  I imagine you with your daughter in such a session, with both of you very open to each other, carrying on a running conversation, you drawing her out and her chit-chatting.  I'm thinking in such a scenario you would kick *ss.  Her love for you and your rapport with her would be obvious.

The choice of the evaluator can be important.  Do you know yet if the court just appoints one, or if both parties have to agree on the evaluator?  If the parties must agree, hopefully your lawyer knows some of the local evaluators.

How long ago did you read "Splitting?"  It's been a while for me, and yesterday I started re-reading it.  I'm glad I did.  It'd be a good pre-game warmup.  You may want to quickly read Eddy's other book, ":)on't Alienate the Kids."  I imagine you may be worried about your wife's behavior w.r.t. alienation.  I've just barely started the book, but it seems like it has a healthy, centering message.

Another thing with evaluations is that you may be offered a chance to submit materials to the evaluator.  This is a good opportunity.  You could submit documents describing your parenting activities, for example.  I bet if you sat down and just wrote off the top of your head, describing a typical day with your daughter, everything you've done for her in the last month, what your responsibilities are, etc. it would at the very least boost your confidence and may provide fodder for the evaluation later.  Particularly of note would be responsibilities typically done by the mom.  You should know all the names of her preschool teachers, any friends names, etc.

Likewise, you may want to write a brainstorm of the poor parenting behaviors of your wife.  What you eventually share with an evaluator, if anything, will go through a careful filtering process where both you and your lawyer would have to agree on including it.  You won't want to exaggerate or talk about things that are extremely subjective.  But if she has clear "out of bounds" behaviors, you want to at least talk to your lawyer about them.  Your strongest play will be positive things about you. 

Do you have any documentation of your wife's behavior?  Obviously, problematic parenting behaviors will be the most relevant, but dysregulated or threatening rants on e-mail or text could be helpful.  The primary argument is that you're a great parent and your daughter needs a lot of time with you, but think hard about what documentation you have on your wife, and don't hold anything back from sharing with your lawyer.

You and your lawyer will be preparing documentation to file in court and probably with an evaluator.  Make sure you read and approve anything that is submitted.  It all must speak with your voice and you may find an opportunity to correct inaccuracies, tone something down (or up) or add a supporting detail, etc.

What is your aim with regards to parenting time?  Are you aiming for 50%?  More?  Less?  If you neglected work responsibilities, what you think is likely, etc., and just looked at your parenting skills, your wife's parenting skills, and the needs of your daughter, what split of parenting time do you think would be best for your daughter?

WW

Have you made a request to communicate with your daughter, supervised would be good , don't allow undocumented instances to occur even to the extent of recording the time you spend with your daughter, beware.

needless to say dont tell her you are taping

DaddyBear,
  I read your other post about coming home to an empty house. I was so angry on your behalf. I don't really tend to believe in good people versus bad people, but in the case of BPD, I kind of do. Reading your story and others on these boards and knowing my own story, I keep getting hit in the face with the complete lack of empathy these people exhibit. It is, to me, trying to have a grown-up relationship with an infant. Infants are darling and captivating, but they can't gauge the impact they have on others. At all. Infants, by biological necessity, are about infants, not about their parents, but somewhere along the line infants grow into toddlers grow into preschoolers and so on, and along the way, they learn empathy. They learn their actions can hurt people. pwBPD don't seem to have ever learned that, and I am so sorry.
  I do not have custody issues with my divorce, only financial issues. Not half as worrisome.
  I am glad you have an attorney you can work with.
  I also agree with Wentworth, you are prepared for this. Organized thinking is incredibly helpful. Control of your emotions? Yes, but I'd still prepare for feeling like s**t and just letting yourself feel it then pick yourself up. (This comes from my own life experience, that if I don't feel the feeling, it will come back in some other form and it will be worse.)
  I'm rereading "Splitting" right now, and the book has even been more helpful than when I initially read it.
  I wish you weren't on the divorce boards. I know you'd wanted to delay all this for a while. My marriage was for ten years, and the relationship was for eleven. For me, all of this has been painful even though I'm glad my STBX is out of my life. My life is much less chaotic right now, and my thinking is much much clearer.
  I'll tell you what all my sisters told me when this chapter in my life started: You'll get through it.
TMD

What will you do immediately with your financial arrangements with your wife? Has she taken joint funds alreadu? Can you close joint accounts and get your own, protected funds set up quickly?

Start now to pull receipts that tell your financial story... .the trip to Japan, the new diamond engagement ring as recent as a few months ago. You will need to show how and why you accumulated the family debt.

What do you think she is expecting to walk away with?

Your plan sounds fine for where you are -- the first steps of this process.

My overall recommendation is that you need to be assertive and fair in your proposals, but not generous. Generosity will not be rewarded by either your ex or the court. Your wife and her attorney will advocate fiercely for what they want -- you need to be firm in asserting your rights and not give up financial or parenting equity in the interest of earning brownie points. It sounds like you are on the right track.

Hi DaddyBear77,

It sounds like you have your helmet on and seat belt fastened.

Even so, I'm sorry you have to go through this, and I'm glad you have friends here to turn to and walk with you down this path.

 


Difficult in what way?


Yes.

And it made me wonder if your ex's attorney advised her to leave while you were gone, and maybe even slow down the complaint so that you begin this experience a bit out of step in obstruction-extension-stonewall land.

The complaint, from what my L told me, is mainly an opportunity for hurting people to vent raw emotion. You might even want to spare yourself the teeth gnashing and have one of your L friends read it and tell you what in it is worth worrying about, if anything.

The judge in my county doesn't even read it.

My L advised that I ignore it, which was hard to do! She said to hang tight and let the process work so we could start to get a grip on my ex's plan, and what he might do or say that we needed to pay attention to, or better yet document.

Has your L had to litigate against your ex's L before?

livednlearned makes a very good point about the complaint potentially containing hurtful information.  Prepare to be very upset by some of the things you read.  Put the document away and don't even worry about it for a while.  Any rebuttal, if there needs to be one, likely will be smaller than you initially feel you'd like to reply with, and you'll be able to do it with less energy if you wait a bit and talk to your lawyer about it.  Her distortions becoming public may be very upsetting, but remember, you are better equipped to deal with lawyers, judges, and evaluators as a problem solver, and her distortions and other behaviors are potentially even more threatening to the outcome for her than they are to you, if you keep cool.

WW

Wow. Thanks everyone. Each time I post, I'm overwhelmed by the supportive helpful responses. I really appreciate that.

Speck, I hear you about the official communication through attorneys. Since it's being pushed on me anyway, I'll embrace it and try and be as BIFF as I possibly can. My attorney gave me a big compliment on my first letter which I tried sending directly to my STBXw, even though she didn't respond.

WW, let me try and take your questions one by one... .

I don't know this answer yet, but I DO know that my attorney has mentioned an extensive network of professionals. I'm hoping we can use hers.

Great suggestions. I have Kindle versions of Splitting and other books, and I was reading the section on BIFF for warmup. I think it would certainly help to re-read it. I may even get a physical copy so it's easier to take notes. I'll also check out the other book.

I have some evidence of dysregulated behavior, but nothing that would be a "smoking gun" I don't think. I have enough to paint an accurate picture of what the relationship was like, so that's my goal. This is something I haven't had need to speak with my attorney yet - under what circumstances would I need this? Is it more a defensive position? In my specific circumstances I'm not sure when I'd need it, but I have as much as I need I think.

Yes. 50/50. And I've completed a parenting schedule through the start of the new school year, which I think is going to be the basis of our first salvo to her attorney.

SlyQQ:
Yes, but there's been no response yet. I made the request directly to my wife who then redirected it to her attorney. The advice I'm getting is to let things lie for now. It's hard. Really hard. I can only imagine what its like right now for her, spending 10 days alone with someone who's decided to divorce me.

Gagrl
So, before the debt started to explode with the most severe of demands, my wife and I made an agreement (kind of like a post-nup) - I said I'd take on the debt that's in my name and she'd take on the debt in her name. At the time, I had a reasonable amount of debt and she had a small amount of student debt. Since that agreement was signed, our total debt has increased to between 5 and 7 times the amount it was 10 years ago. A massive increase. And most of it ended up in my name, because for the most part she didn't have a job, her credit was worse, and when she WAS working she made about half of what I made.

I'm sure she expects me to take on 95% to 100% of the debt. I expect to give her a rude awakening. My lawyer is reviewing the agreement now.

livedandlearned
My lawyer told me that he's notorious for churning files. So in a way, that says nothing about his skill level or effectiveness in anything other than causing financial pain. But what was also interesting to me was that my lawyer also knows the counselor that my wife is seeing, and volunteers for the same organization to which my wife's counselor is a part of. We believe there may be a connection here, where my wife has been immersed in a system that promotes a victim mentality, which is then going to be carried over to her legal team.

Yes, and that's the good news here. I am trusting my lawyers approach and judgement here, and I feel like whatever my wife's lawyer has to offer, my lawyer will have a well-informed response that will sit more favorably with any judge that might need to hear it.


And thanks TMD and flourdust for the helpful encouragement. You're right, TMD - I will get through it.

As for what I'm up to right now... .
My lawyer has told me not to worry and take things one step at a time, so that's what I've been doing. There are two things I need to get done this weekend. The first is to finish a proposed parenting schedule and plan. I found a great website to help with that and it's going well. The second is to finish the financial disclosure sheet. THAT part is a huge pain in the butt but I'm making progress on it.

Thanks again for everyone's help and suggestions - gonna rest up now and get back at it tomorrow.

DB,

Regarding documentation of your wife's bad behavior, you might not need it.  The healthiest and most efficient approach may be to just play the straight man, a dad asking for 50/50 time, and not have to say anything bad about your wife.  Less work for you, you don't have to risk looking like the bad guy, etc.  But it may become relevant to your case.  Just let your lawyer know what you have, and talk it out as things develop.

"Splitting" has a section on evaluators.  That's great to hear that your lawyer has an extensive network of professionals.  That's exactly how we got our evaluator, my lawyer suggested her to my wife's lawyer, and they went with it.  One approach is to suggest two or three evaluators from your lawyer's network to your wife's lawyer, and let them pick one.

WW

Your wife did work until a few years ago.  However, I'm sure she will ask for spousal support as well as child support.  Predictable.  First, be careful not to seem trying to avoid supporting your child.  Courts are jaded by dads who demand a lot of parenting time just to avoid paying CS.  Don't get caught in that trap.

However, you are entirely within your rights to ask that her support requests include an equivalent to her past income, that is, her imputed or potential income.  I recall when my ex was having CS calculated and she was not working they imputed her income at minimum wage.  She had worked until our son was born but she was making only a few dollars over the minimum wage.

Probably a good strategy is to ask the court that she find a job to support herself.  It may take a year or two but that is not an unreasonable request.  Court will like to see both parents moving on in their lives.

Good that you are asking for equal treatment, such as in a week for yourself and child after she had a week for herself and child.  Court often does not concern itself with make-up time or 'fairness'.  In my case, when we were between temp orders, my now-ex block all father-child contact for three months, including phone calls.  When the magistrate confirmed this from her he commented, "I'll fix that."  His fix was simply to restart a temp order with her again having temp custody and temp majority time.  She didn't get any lectures and I didn't get any make-up time.

You child is probably in kindergarten or first grade by now.  A few thoughts... .she will probably try to claim you're not an involved parent.  So be sure to know the names of the teachers, doctor, dentist, etc.  Go to any school sponsored events or parent-teacher appointments.  Your spouse cannot stop you from attending (unless the court order states so) but you may end up having separate appointment times.

My ex tried to file allegations to keep me away from my preschooler but fortunately the court never limited me to supervised visitation, not even temporarily while checking me out.

Be aware that some courts still default to setting mothers as Primary Parent.  That doesn't mean you have to accept it.  Seek as much parenting responsibility and time as possible.  Don't be timid.  If you believe you ought to be Primary Parent, state so from the outset.  Even if court ignores it at first, you will have declared your position and during the divorce process it will be resolved to some extent.

Beware of being fair.  For example you may think equal time is 'fair'.  But your spouse will likely want majority time.  What will court think when she asks for 90-99% when you ask for 50%?  Might the judge split the difference and assign you typical alternate weekends and an evening or overnight in between?  That works out to about 20% for you.

I had 22% for 2.5 years in temp orders.  Fortunately I had long 72 hour weekends from Friday pm to Monday pm.  She will try to limit you to short weekends.  Try to at least get them from end of school on Friday to start of school on Monday.  And if no Monday school, due to holidays usually being on Mondays, then to Monday pm.

My custody evaluator wanted us to have equal time but added that alternate weeks was too long for a young child to be away from the other parent.  He said for children under 10 years of age a 2-2-5-5 schedule was best.  So my ex got Mon-Tue overnights, I got Wed-Thu overnights and the three overnight weekends were alternated.

As I wrote above, it is okay to ask for what you think is right for your child, even if it is more than what you think you might walk out with.

Is that sitting ok with you?

A lesson I learned the hard way -- let your T help you with the psychological stuff (worry) and the L help you with the legal stuff (prep). If you are worrying, talk to your T.

If you are feeling a bit anxious about what your L is handling, get up in her business and ask :)

Remember that both of them work for you, especially your L.

There's no need to hope that you can use your L's network of professionals. You are the one paying her bills. Would you feel comfortable telling your L you want the names of three of the court's most respected evaluators, and that your wife's team can pick which one? Then ask when that particular request will go into action. It's perfectly reasonable for you to ask this, and to know within a ballpark when your L will be filing a motion for custody evaluation.

Taking things one step at a time is a good psychological mindset.

Being assertive and forward thinking is ok.

They are a bit different.

Another thing that stuck out a bit. Curious to hear your thoughts:

Shouldn't you be trying to call your daughter every night? Even if your wife doesn't answer, don't you want to be able to say, "I tried calling my D every day. For 10 days straight, I tried to call. I emailed. My wife did not respond, not once. I was redirected to ex's L, who never responded. I had no way to contact my daughter and for 10 whole days, the longest time I have ever gone without talking to my child, I had no contact with her."

What does your L say about the lack of contact and how it will get turned around?

On a separate (but related) note:

If your wife's L is known for file churn, what strategy does your L have to counter that?

It might be a good idea to make doubly sure that your L does not grant any extensions or change court dates without checking with you first. Lots of attorneys move court dates around and coordinate their schedules to be collegial. What is your L going to do when wife's L postpones and obstructs and stonewalls? You may want a strategy for that, something you agree to together -- maybe do it by email so you have something you can reference in writing.

Even regular lawyers do this, so now that you know wife's L is known for this, it's a sign this needs some extra focus.

For your L, it might be a pain in the butt. For you, it's expensive and could accelerate parental alienation and prevent you from seeing your daughter. I think that's a perfectly valid thing to worry about!

About your wife's behaviors. My guess is that there will be mediation of some kind? You likely won't get what is reasonable, so there should be a strategy for that, too. What's your bottom line on custody and debt? How will you structure your first offer? Meaning, you know she will be entitled and overreach. You want to do a bit of the same so that you have some room to move toward reasonable, giving the other side a sense of *winning* if there is such a thing in family law court.

--or--

If she isn't willing to budge on her requests, you suspend the mediation and prepare for court. If her symptoms are more or less under control (which seems more likely when there is a replacement in the picture... .) then she may listen to her L and settle out of court.

That's preferable.

However, what happens for many of us is that we get some kind of settlement that is more or less reasonable, and then end up going to court when the other part repeatedly violates the order.

With some careful planning and assertiveness on your part (and by extension your L) you can avoid some of the egregious financial drain and time wasting.

But remember that your L does not feel the emotional and psychological pain when things drag on like you do. To the contrary, she gets paid! You have to be the one asking pointed questions, overseeing the management of the strategy, making sure you understand why things are happening the way they are, and proposing solutions that might close loopholes and save some money.

Even good lawyers will do reasonable things that, when added up, can make things drag on in the long run, when they don't need to.

For example, I learned (because my ex was particularly litigious) that every motion had to propose a consequence for non-compliance. Otherwise, when my ex inevitably ignored the court order, and I went back to court, the judge would give ex a few more bites of the apple. So instead, I started to think ahead and get the consequences baked right into the motion. That way the judge could just look at the order and say, "Well it says here if n/BPDx didn't do x by day/date, then LnL would get to y and z. So that's what's going to happen. Including this part where n/BPDx is responsible for LnL's legal fees."

Have deadlines for everything and consequences for what happens if those deadlines are not met.

If I were in your shoes, I would want to know exactly what the L's plans were to reunite me with my child. Does it require an emergency (ex parte) order? What happens if you don't get served for another week, or 10 days? What is the strategy based on what you expect, knowing that the L is a churn factory, and that your wife will play victim, meanwhile obstructing and stonewalling and creating status quo?

It will get easier as you go -- you'll start to get a feel for how your L works and when to be assertive with her. These next few months will be a bit nuts, most likely. Do you have a T you're seeing?

LnL

I liked all of livednlearned's points, and will probably be re-reading this thread for myself at some point.  In particular:


I think it's good advice to make sure you know exactly what requests your lawyer will be making and on exactly what day.  I only have experience with one case -- mine.  My lawyer communicates very well, and I always know when and what she's sending to the judge or my wife's lawyer.  If it's a written document, I've read and approved it first.  Lately, I've spotted an issue on one of the forms submitted, and realize that the next time forms go in, I'm going to need to proof read them as well.

Regarding the three evaluators.  In my case, these were three evaluators that were not just on my lawyer's networking list, but who she'd worked with before and understood their styles, and thought would be good for my case.  She had her favorite, and suggested it to opposing counsel, and it was agreed on.  It definitely makes sense to ask your lawyer to explain how much she's worked with each evaluator, and why she likes them for your case.

I'm also concerned about the idea of your wife keeping your daughter after the "vacation" week.  The vacation week itself was already overstepping.  Absolutely it seems like an emergency hearing would be called for, as well as you clearly communicating to her in whatever way your lawyer thinks is appropriate that she does not have your permission to have your daughter away from you.

WW

DB77,

Damn, it's been 12 years since my legal donnybrook with my first ex, so bear with me if you've heard this stuff before.

1) You do have to play not so nice here now. I'm not saying to be a hump, but you now have to act in your own best interests and the best interests of your D.

2) Thus, think if there are any incident reports against your STBx, be they cops being called to the house, any brouhahas between her and former employers, financial hardships in her name, phone records of any extramarital shenanigans. You want to establish a history of malfeasance, if possible.

3) Jerk off lawyer or not, your STBx's case will be weakened by her inability to communicate the facts fully and truthfully to her L (plus her demeanor when she's deposed), so there's a good chance her L will be caught off guard early and often.

4) I would see if you can see you STBx's "vacation" as abandoning the house, abducting your D, and ransacking your bank account.

5) I know it's a bit daunting right now, but in the end everything will be OK. Prepare to hear the worst, most hurtful language in her complaint for D, and expect to win the D under grounds of your choosing.

6) I would do my best to never be in the house at the same time and she is, if that's practical.

7) Try and remember her weak spot, something she is trying to avoid facing, to gain leverage against her. As my lawyer said when I couldn't figure out what happened to cause my ex to up and leave, "More than 80% of relationships end due to infidelity." And wouldn't you know it, I began finding evidence of an extramarital affair once I started looking. However, it wasn't until my deposition when I relayed some unsavory things about her mother (who was bankrolling her in the divorce) that they wanted to settle asap... .and good thing too, because I had just about run out of money.

8) Find and save all birthday, holiday cards and emails from her and to her expressing positive feelings toward one another. They will prove valuable in invalidating her claims against you. When my L had presented more than 100 greeting cards of my ex saying nice things to me and how she was thankful she was to have me, both she and her L sh1t purple Twinkies.

J

I am re-reading "Splitting" now, and just came across a quote that's relevant to us.  Eddy says that after the target has demonstrated independence or has achieved some element of power over the pwBPD or pwNPD, that is a prime time for the pwB/NPD to push back, make accusations, try to take control, etc.  So if you have any kind of win on any points, feel good for a moment but watch your back and be prepared to document.

WW

Jeffree, you win the award for "The One Thing That Made Me Laugh The Hardest Today" - thank you!

And to your point, sitting next to me as we speak is a box full of said cards and letters, which I had no idea what to do with until I read this. So thank you for that, too.

It's been a hard day today emotionally, so yes, I've reconnected with my T and we're going to carve out some time to work through this. I like what you said, LnL - you got your T and you got your L and they're both part of the team with different skill sets. I'm paraphrasing. But I get it. Completely.

I'll stick to the legal stuff here... .

My L reached out to me late this morning (as promised) with a draft letter and she attached a draft parenting schedule I drew up over the weekend. My L even added a bit to the letter about my STBXw needing to facilitate facetime with my daughter until they were done with their hiatus. She sent it at noon, and no response. No facetime. I looked back at the draft, and while I caught one "soft pedal" I missed the fact that my L didn't give a deadline (we had previously discussed a deadline).

So, I had read part of LnL's response this morning before I got sucked into my day, and I saw the part about calling my STBXw and insisting on speaking. Now, on the one hand, that WAS my first reaction. And I totally get the idea about appearances and what it will look like with a judge. On the other hand, I'm VERY aware of the possibility that anything I can do will be fuel added to this "he's an abuser" victim mindset. So I've been really back and forth on whether I should push the issue directly with her.

In the end, I decided I'd push the issue through my L and her L, but do so more aggressively. So tonight, as I was sitting here REALLY missing my D4, I sent a note to my L saying "We had agreed to a deadline. There was no deadline. I haven't heard a single word about  my D4's whereabouts or even her wellbeing since Sunday April 8th at 8:30PM. This is unacceptable. We need to talk about an alternate strategy"

I heard you all - assertive is what needs to happen.

In regards to what to ask for custody wise, I DID push things in my favor - I asked for every weekend through Labor Day to be with me. Everyone, and I mean everyone, said back to me "She's going to balk at that" and to them I say, GREAT! Let her balk! Then she can explain where she's been every weekend from January through April and why suddenly she wants to spend those weekends with D4! Because I sure as he! would like to know where she's been until 3 in the morning on Fridays and Saturdays! Especially when the last train to our station arrives at 2am.

So, yeah, fire lit. Afterburners at the ready.

Financials are another story. I have a confession to make - there's a "mid marriage" agreement that I signed when we got back together in 2009. I believe I must have been temporarily insane, out of my mind, or just so intensely codependent that I didn't care, but I signed the most UNfavorable agreement ever. I won't go into details, but lets just say that if that mid-marriage agreement holds, she gets the equity in the house and substantial support from me. Will it be the absolute end of the world if I have to adhere to it? No, I guess not. Was I stupid and did I learn a very painful mistake? You bet. But, my point is, strategy number one is to try and limit or eliminate enforcement of that agreement in favor of something more appropriate to the laws of my state.

But, in the end, my most important goal is parenting, so that's what I'm focused on primarily for the next 24 hours or so.

Thanks for this thread - this is awesome and I will be back with more updates soon.

DB,

Good work!  I think if you were to send a text to your wife today saying that you'll call your daughter on Facetime at 7pm and ask her to please have her ready, then call on FaceTime at 7pm,  there is no way you'd be seen as abusive by any reasonable person.  Expect that your attempt to connect will fail, and you'll log it.  But give it a shot.  Keep the text short and positive, pretending there's nothing crazy going on and you're just on a business trip.  Maybe you'll get lucky and she'll text back something you can get a screenshot of next to your reasonable request.  Or even luckier and she'll do the right thing and you'll talk to your daughter!

On the mid-marriage agreement, any chance she was represented by a lawyer and you weren't?  She had been keeping you awake for several nights in a row?  She was threatening your baseball card collection with a propane torch?  Attacking that agreement is one area where your lawyer can really earn her money.  And it's an area where it might be worth asking her to call for backup and get a second or third opinion from a very well regarded expert.

WW

DB77,

This is a huge blow, and I'm sorry that things have unraveled to this point.   I have no experience in legal matters, divorce, or custody arrangements. You are getting 5 star advice from members here, and I just wanted to share my support and my thoughts on one point. 

For what it's worth: I don't think any judge will see your wanting to reach out to your daughter and acting upon that as abusive or harassing. You have every right to communicate with your daughter. You can make your attempts in a calm and reasonable way. Your daughter will eventually become aware of your attempts and it will make you feel better knowing that you tried your best to talk to her.

Hang in there. You can get through this.

heartandwhole

I sure as he! would like to know where she's been until 3 in the morning on Fridays and Saturdays!

Do you have the ability to either track her via her cell phone or to check her cell phone details? That should pretty much reveal everything. CC purchases?

Glad to have given you a moment of levity. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming of fighting your battle.

Hopefully you'll get a fair judge and that will set the tone the rest of the way.

BTW, do you think she will expect you to pay for her L, too?

J

Sorry, I had tried to edit my previous post with much more detail, but it must have timed out or something.

Regarding this mid-marriage contract, in order for her to get equity in the house, it would have to be sold. Can you delay that payment process by requesting to remain in the marital home until D is of legal age so as to keep a stable domicile for her? Your STBx left the house and abducted your D, I believe that should greatly strengthen your leverage here.

DO NOT EVER CONTACT YOUR WIFE DIRECTLY FROM HERE ON OUT... .unless directed by your L! If you think the mid-marriage agreement was misguided so will be any attempts on your part to contact your STBx.

J

I have some evidence of dysregulated behavior, but nothing that would be a "smoking gun" I don't think. I have enough to paint an accurate picture of what the relationship was like, so that's my goal. This is something I haven't had need to speak with my attorney yet - under what circumstances would I need this? Is it more a defensive position? In my specific circumstances I'm not sure when I'd need it, but I have as much as I need I think.

You need every shred of evidence you can find here as far back as you can find it in order to:

1) Let her L and her know you're playing hardball
2) To thwart any of her victimization bullcr@p
3) To establish a pattern of her dismal behavior toward you
4) To use it as a negotiating tactic

In this regard there is a HUGE difference between he said she said and legal documentation or proof of said malfeasance. She can try and defend her abduction of your D by accusing you of being abusive or creating an unsafe house, BUT if you have proof of HER doing something like this before, or cards and texts and emails where she says the opposite about you, then that makes her look like the criminal here.

As you know from the Splitting book, pwBPDs think they are above the law and that their "feelings" are the truth that will win out. However, in a court of law, proof is what reigns supreme. Document, document, document.

J

Just curious... .when you gave her a new diamond ring recently, was there a vow renewal involved?  I can't remember.

Hey everyone, real quick because I'm running pretty late to my next work meeting... .

My attorney just got the complaint and she forwarded it to me in an e-mail. She scheduled a phone consultation with me at 1pm. I figured I'd need to read the complaint ahead of time, although after reading your advice on here I was scared to do it. I did it anyway, and wow. Extreme cruelty. Real incidents, with dates, all twisted to fit her narrative of being the victim of an abusive relationship. The hardest parts were where she tried to paint me as dangerous to our daughter.

I feel sick to my stomach and barely able to put one foot in front of the other at this point, but I'll do it. I just thought I'd share that bit before I moved on to the rest of my day.

Thanks for the support - I really need it.

So typical... .yet still hurtful. I'm so sorry, DB77. 

"Real incidents with dates?" What does that mean? She has fabricated incidents and dates, or just changed the true instigator from herself to you for said incidents?

This is EXACTLY why you keep those positive cards, emails, and texts and also unearth as many of her questionable actions to counteract her scapegoating.

Son of a FN b1tch! I hate when horrible things happen to good people.

J

I don't think anyone would see it this way. Likely, there will be "no answer" but at least you logged that you made the attempt.

This is getting into "Child Psychological Abuse" territory, like Dr. Craig Childress says... .denying even verbal contact with your daughter.

Some quick notes from a guy not that far ahead of you in the process... .

1. Definitely reach out to contact your daughter. Make a FaceTime call. Email your wife and say EXACTLY WHEN you will be calling and that you expect to talk to D4 at that time. Do it every day. If she refuses or ignores you, still keep emailing and FaceTiming daily and keeping a record -- this becomes evidence of her denying you parental rights.

2. The complaint sounds par for the course. And, yes, it sucks to read such a twisted, self-serving, self-victimizing narrative. Let's step back and think of the audience -- the court. The judge doesn't know you or your wife and doesn't have a lot of time to invest in this case. The judge wants things to move along and come to a resolution, with as little drama as possible. If your wife and her L are acting out histrionically and obstructing progress, but you and your L are responding calmly and proposing solutions -- that will be noticed!

The judge is likely to want to kick the he-said/she-said aspects of your case over to a professional evaluator -- it's a good strategy for you and your L to propose a parenting evaluator (and to identify some candidates that your L thinks are professional and understand personality disorder cases). Let the evaluator tell the judge about your wife's problems -- that will be 1000% more persuasive than you making that case directly.

3. The contract you signed may be bad for you, but it may also present a silver lining in that, if enforced, it also caps what she DOESN'T get. One thing to bear in mind is that gifts exchanged within the marriage are marital property -- so all the expensive jewelry, etc., is 50% yours.

Even with my ex's documented abuse toward me and S9, I was told by my L to put S9 on the phone with his dad right away.

This is chess to lawyers.

So just to underscore this: Even with an abuser, kids are put in touch with the abusive parent.

Kids who have abusive parents still want a relationship with that parent.

That's what the research says, and that's what courts believe. Especially in the beginning of the case when everyone is pointing fingers.

When there is a he-said, she-said, the court shrugs at all the allegations and hearsay and waits to hear the evidence.

That's why custody evaluations and depositions and third-party professional testimony and our own documentation matter so much.

Your wife can say all she wants, but her story is not based in fact and she will struggle to keep it cohesive. My ex was a former trial attorney who told lies for a living and even he could not keep his story straight.

Ex would tell the court "LnL is a dangerous alcoholic megalomaniacal negligent parent with two heads and a forked tail" and then ask me 30 min later if I could take S9 next weekend so he could play bass in a band two towns away.

Listen to your L because that's legal advice and you're paying for it.

We are simply here to say how things worked for us, to give you some wind at your back, and hopefully help you avoid unnecessary pitfalls. Including lawyers that aren't as attuned to what's going on as you are. You can have a good L and make her excellent.

It takes a minute for the court to catch up with what's really going on, so keep taking deep breaths.

Use this time to get organized and centered.

And don't forget we have your back  :)

You will need to be able to tell your own story of the marriage.

Start by objectively listing events, with dates.  This will give you the narrative, and you can add/delete later.

Start with the beginning of the relationship, decision to marry, jobs taken, career moves, etc.

Include point at which you separated the first time, decision to reunite, financial agreement at that time.

Birth of daughter, beginning of refusal to allow you to take daughter to see other grandparents, holidays at which wife refused contact with your family.

Each demand for more money, reasons for money demands (when she first wanted another engagement ring, how many months she discussed it/demanded it, what she said to you regarding difficulty in affording jewelry, vacations, etc. as well as what you did in going into more debt to accommodate her demands).

When she began therapy, and with which organization.  When you began therapy.

When she quit working, when she went back to grad school, when you accompanied her on grad school in-residence trips.

When she began leaving your daughter with you in the evenings, time at which she began to stay out until early morning hours.


Be as specific with dates as possible.  Be specific, be objective.

I posted this a couple of tears ago in a post of Moselle's ( i didnt cave in today, you should perhaps look at the thread)

the scenario you are going through is all to familiar and predictable, suprising but not suprising at all, everyone who is knowingly in a BPD relationship should prepare themselves for exactly this scenario or worse,

here is the post. two years old.


Your partners goals will likely be to destroy you she will probably project that like her you will be easy to provoke an evoke a rash action for which she will be fully prepared to take advantage off

your goal is to love cherish and protect your kids ( not destroy your p ) if you can be seen as the victim here you will gain there sympathy tell them you are trying to work things out with there mum an make every efort to do so despite what is thrown at you ( remember your most important allies are your children if you deliberately hurt thier mum you will hurt them

p.s. i am guessing here but the thrust of what i am saying is clear i hope

DB,

I wrote the following thinking of the mid-marriage agreement, not having seen your latest post about the divorce complaint.  This is still relevant, so I'll leave it as it is:

I like where Gagrl is going with this.  Taking it a step further, I wonder if you start writing down the timeline leading up to when you signed the mid-marriage contract, including all abuse and manipulative behavior, if you will get and maybe be able to communicate a clearer picture of why you signed it.  Your lawyer may say, "I am so sorry she messed with your head, but you're a grownup, that's your signature, and you're stuck with it," OR maybe, just maybe, you'll find a thread to pull on.  If you were a woman and there were physical abuse some people might see a more obvious path to attack that document's validity, but regardless of gender, controlling behaviors and verbal/emotional abuse can be more powerful than physical abuse to induce someone to do something like sign a document.  If a lot of money is on the table, and it sounds like it is, you should consider getting evaluated by a domestic violence expert (typically a psychologist, LMFT, or LCSW who does court testimony).  I am not suggesting that you make something out of nothing or exaggerate things.  But, conditioned as you have been for many years to "saving" a lopsided relationship with at the least, emotionally abusive and manipulative behaviors, you almost certainly are minimizing the impact on you, accepting too much of the blame, and normalizing her actions (even though you think you already know they were out of bounds, over time, as you gain perspective, you may become even more confident and see them as farther out of bounds).

Here are my thoughts after catching up about the complaint news:

I second much of the great advice you've gotten here.  I'm just now re-reading the section in Splitting on evaluators.  You may have just read it as well.  I would place a high priority on getting the evaluator appointed ASAP, and getting your daughter in front of the evaluator ASAP, and you and your daughter in front of the evaluator in a play session ASAP, all before your wife has time to influence her.  I think you've got ":)on't Alienate the Kids."  Have you started it?  I've just read a few pages.  I'll race ya!

I want to emphasize what's been said above.  You are telling the truth, and your are organized.  Prepare well, and your true self will come across to folks like evaluators, and you'll be believed.  Just recently, I was sitting in front of a child custody evaluator, and my wife had thrown accusations of abuse at me (saying I abused my wife).  I think I managed to avoid saying BPD, but when she asked what I did during a conflict, I told how when we were first married, I'd argue back.  Then I learned not to.  Then I learned what JADE was, and how not to do it.  Then I learned the power of validation.  I told how my behavior when things got out of control was to exit.  I said that all of these tools helped, but in the last few years things escalated.  She would assault me as I tried to leave an argument, etc.  It was the story of a caring person learning and adapting and eventually becoming overrun by the behaviors.  Same as you.  I did not throw my wife under the bus, but was candid about her behaviors.  As I told this true story, I could see in the evaluators eyes that she believed me.  A therapist one time told me another thing I was doing that built credibility -- I was describing the things that I wished I'd done differently, and my part in things.  Be careful not to throw yourself under the bus out of misguided guilt, perhaps run your examples by your therapist and lawyer.  One example I had was how my wife kicked me out of the house one night 7 years ago, and as I walked to the driveway, she tried to pull the bag with my clothes in it away from me.  I pulled back, and we both fell into the bushes.  I described how scared I was that someone could get hurt, and from that point forward anytime she tried to steal any possessions besides my cell phone I would just let her have them and was willing to buy new things.  Abusive guys do not talk about the power of validation to defuse arguments, nor do they talk about their part in things.

One thing I'm very glad I did was to separate my detailed documentation of abuse against me from documentation of my wife's behaviors around parenting.  One fat document for each.  For me, it was the right move, since I had dozens of pages of incidents.  I wanted to make it easy for the evaluator to focus on parenting specific stuff, and not annoy her by making her work to hard to find what was most important to her.  But there, in a separate document, which I hoped she would read, was all the crazy stuff my wife did to me.  Obviously, an executive summary of 1-2 pages is a good idea.  Talk about your efforts to keep your family together, your highest priority being your daughter, etc.  Organize it all like a big report at work where you're not sure when the executive reading it will fall asleep; push overviews and main points to the front.

I had three hour long interviews with the evaluator.  The first two, she consumed all the time with questions, I really didn't have a chance to bring up issues, though she was very thorough.  I requested a third session to cover things that had been missed.  I think the fact that you have already proposed a detailed parenting plan is a great asset in your favor.  You are far ahead of me on this.


When you're in the right mood, a satisfying activity could be to write down the dates of the supposed "incidents" and the dates of the cards and see if any line up.  One might even put both into a spreadsheet   Your instinct will be to attack these allegations point by point.  Since this is a court filing, that may be the thing to do; talk to your lawyer.  You may want to write out a narrative of how each incident actually happened, with as much detail as you can possibly remember (you were facing north towards the kitchen when she threw her ring at you, for example).  You may not need all the work product you generate, but it will give you something to do with your energy and will build your confidence.  Some of it will undoubtedly be useful.  But don't do it at the expense of getting yourself emotionally spun up.  Find out the urgency of whatever analysis or background info she needs from you.  If you have the luxury of time, pace yourself.  I finally got smart and forced myself to only work on toxic documents before noon, or at the latest 2 or 3pm.  Not in the late afternoon, and *especially* not after the sun sets.

WW

So, tonight's winner is Wentworth, for literally using the exact same words as my L this afternoon while discussing our response!

My L gives me homework - it's great - it takes the guess work out of things  - anyway, my homework is to complete this narrative and also the financial disclosure documents so that we can be prepared. My L also said we're going to make counter claims, which she does as a matter of course in cases like this. This is my 3rd or 4th hour with the L and I feel like we're finally settling into a good rhythm. I'm learning not to go overboard with details right off the bat unless she asks, and she's slowing down a bit to ask questions and make sure I'm following along. I'm feeling good about my support from that perspective.

We also did exactly what LnL and others have suggested - I sent my STBX a text message and an e-mail stating that I would be calling to speak with my daughter at 7:15pm. Then at 7:15pm I called, and she did NOT answer. So I sent another text and e-mail stating that she did not answer and that I would be available until 8pm for her to return my call. She did not, and at 7:59pm she sent a note saying "As you have previously been informed, all contact must be through my lawyer."

SO - this validates what I had expected, it gives us more ammunition for alienation claims, and it sucked I didn't get to talk to my daughter.

But

Tomorrow is the day they are scheduled to come back home. If my STBX is paying attention, she'll notice that I'm not leaving the marital home until such time as a temporary parenting agreement is made. I have no idea how tomorrow will play out, but like I said, I'm working well with my L and I will call her as needed to navigate through this.

Oh, and back to the narrative, there's certianly a big task in store to put things together, and yes, WW, I have spreadsheets already  

Also, Gagrl, thank you so much - your outline was REALLY helpful and means a lot to me that you remember all the high level details - thank you!

DB,

Great work!  I'm very glad to hear that you feel like you're working well with your lawyer.  I have a similar situation, and it eases the stress greatly.  That feeling of working with a rational person who is skilled and on your side is empowering.

You may not have time for this, and it may not be something that you feel is necessary.  If you think there is a chance she might escalate to a dangerous level, or threaten to call the police to get you out of the home, one thing that you might consider doing is stopping by the police station in the morning and introducing yourself, and ask to talk to an officer, hopefully the sergeant on duty.  Tell them what your wife did (taking your daughter without permission and filing a complaint with accusations) and let them know you'll be sleeping in the basement and doing whatever you can to avoid conflict.  Let them know you may call them if things get out of hand, and if she calls them, it won't be because you're doing anything, and you'll be ready to greet them peacefully on their arrival.  It's probably a good idea to check with your lawyer before you do this.

What do you anticipate her worst case behavior being if the two of you are in the house together Wednesday night and she's upset?

WW

There is a chance she will arrive with police in tow and perhaps even a court order, i dont no how but,,,

So get a good response to this. "All contact must be through my L" needs to be countered with something. That way, your judge (if/when it comes to that) can see that mom seemed to be genuinely obstructing access, without any valid excuse.

Your wife can be excused for being naive about this. Keep making attempts to talk to your D, and see if your L has a good response or way to handle this.

You are creating a paper trail of exhibits that could potentially be used in court to counter her claims. You don't want that story to be, "He never called to talk to D4." And you don't want that story to be, "He was a bully, and told me he would see me in court with my head on a platter." Or, "He texted, emailed, phoned 248 times in an hour."

You want the story to be, Let's focus on what is best for D4. I want to be assured that she is ok, and to make sure she knows I'm here. She's 4, and this sudden absence is going to be confusing for her. I consulted with a child psychologist experienced with divorce transitions, and she recommended best steps so that D4 feels safe and loved by both parents throughout this."

Stuff like that.

Of course, check with your L. And check to see how the "talk to my lawyer" stall will be countered.

Your greatest hurdle may end up being this whole world of stonewalling -- it's passive aggression on a whole other level, especially when someone like your wife's lawyer gets involved. 

DB77,

Have you and your L discussed how to handle your STBx's and D's immanent arrival at the house?

I would almost bet STBx will arrive w/o D to really set off your alarms and goad you into some kind of dialogue/behavior that will cause a ruckus that will involve the police and get you tossed from the house and have something on file against you.

DO NOT TAKE THE BAIT!

If she does in fact show up without your D, perhaps others here can recommend what to do, but I would ask firmly where is D4 once and based on what STBx says gauge your response from there. Perhaps file a missing person's report if she does not confirm for you where D4 is and when you will be able to be in touch with her? Perhaps call the police to at least mediate the conversation from there?

W/O D at the house I would certainly not engage much with your STBx. She knows she needs leverage against you and will stop at nothing to create the opportunity to get it.

My thoughts and prayers are with you, sir.

J

This is a good point, livednlearned.  The stonewalling is an attempt to regain or maintain control.  The flip side is that it can make us feel powerless and out of control.  If we are wired to collaborate, the stonewalling is hard for us to wrap our brains around (it is for me, at least).  My wife recently lost a disagreement with me (where I played by the rules and followed the recommendations of a court appointed evaluator).  Immediately afterward, she began stonewalling on three time sensitive issues.  It was triggering for me.  I dealt with it by sending a timeline and .pdf's of three e-mail chains to my lawyer, each showing me being friendly and collaborative and her stonewalling.  The timeline and e-mail chains tell a pretty clear story.  My point is to be ready for the stonewalling to upset you, and channel that energy into honing your behavior to be polite and assertive, and documenting.  If you continue this, she will do all the hard work for you!

WW

Great point Jeffree - i didnt think about what to do if STBX didnt bring D4 home. I think the first thing I’d do is contact STBX’s mother. Thats pretty much the only other person that cares for D4 out of the house. If i confirmed that MIL did not have her, i would most certianly go the missing persons route after trying to contact my attorney for confirmation.

A bit of positive news first... .

My attorney is good friends with one of the attorneys at STBX’s firm. My attorney called and emailed her friend about the stonewalling last night. My attorney got a note back first thing this morning from STBX’s attorney saying simply “Contacting [my client] now about your e-mail below.  I will make sure she allows him to communicate with their daughter. “

So, we’ll see where that gets us.

As i wait to see how this unfolds, here are my thoughts assuming D4 shows up as expected.

When D4 gets here, she’ll know I’m here before they even open the door because my car is in the driveway. My daughter will knock on the basement door the minute she comes in the house. My wife will insist she uses the bathroom and washes her hands. Im trying to figure out at which point, if any, I should open the door and greet my daughter? Technically I did not propose parenting time for me today. But that being said, the last thing I want to do is ignore my daughter. One alternate option is that I could leave the house before they get here and come back late tonight when I know she’s in bed - calling at 7pm of course and FaceTiming. But then there’s the risk with me being gone for an extended period that my STBX could call a locksmith and change the locks. Which is what my attorney advised me to protect against.

I’m probably just going to stay, recorder running, and try and calmly get time with D4. I’ll walk away from any escalation. I’m still thinking things through. It’ll be a last minute call either way.

Good that you are proactive, WW!

I found that stonewalling was rarely if ever punished, even when called out.

It kinda falls into this mash-up of low-level undesirable but tolerated human behavior. Everyone is busy, everyone has scheduling conflicts, everyone overlooks emails, people get dates wrong.

So WW's advice to keep track is good. I used a Google calendar and entered things each day they happened. Then, when I was getting ready to pull it all together, I printed my calendar out in agenda view and it dumped things out chronologically. I could see the patterns much easier that way.

Another pro tip  :thought: is to create a pattern that can be documented. Try to shine light on the stonewalling.

And stay on top of your L -- she may have some legitimate reasons to allow slippage (it gives her more time to catch her breath, for one).

"My wife is stonewalling on this item. What is our plan to counter this or shine light on it?"

If you're trying to minimize how much communication by email you're doing with your L (ka-ching), then just document it and keep it organized. Three-ring binders and dividers became my new best friend  :)

Do you have the idea that other people (not your wife) are caring for your daughter?

And... confirm there is no agreement in place?

Here is the thing (please confirm with lawyer first)... .and then think through the wisdom of such actions... .

With no agreement in place... .a parent always wins.  

So... if aunt sally is given the child by the child's mother.  The mother leaves and goes who knows where.  The Dad shows up at Aunt Sally's and says he is taking child to do something.  The Dad has the legal right to do so... .

Hope that makes sense.

It's one thing for a parent to take a kid and spend  time with that kid (even it that results in another parent missing out) (both parties have equal legal rights).

It's another for a separate adult to "have custody" of the child, when one of the parents doesn't want the child gone and the other parent is not physically at the same location.

A couple years ago I was close to exercising this right a few times.  Eventually the issue I was upset about (who was caring for kids when) got solved... .I had all my papers together to prove who I was, letter from lawyer... .etc etc.

FF

She knows you really care about your daughter and as Jeffree warned is very likely to use that against you, to sabotage your parenting.  She will posture as a parent threatened and a victim and she has to protect 'her' child from a dangerous person.  Anything and everything you do, whether in person, in writing, by email or by text, you must always behave as though the judge and lawyers are watching over your shoulder.  You can't risk losing your cool, no matter how much she pushes your buttons.

My ex had blocked all, I mean ALL, my father-preschooler contact for over 3 months, she even ignored phone calls.  During this time he turned 4 years of age and I think she did allow a birthday call but that was it.  She claimed my daily phone calls and messages (calmly left for our son, not her) were harassment and stalking.  Court was outraged and gave her severe consequences, right?  NO!  All the magistrate did was comment, "I'll fix that."  Then he made another temp order similar to the prior one where I had alternate weekends.  No consequences for her and no make-up time for me.  Yes, that peeved me to no end but I had to accept it.

My point is... .while you are justifiably upset over her actions, be careful, the professionals are not emotionally involved and they may view this as just another day at work.  You having a fit and making a scene won't help.  You can ask for consequences, make-up time, whatever would avoid future incidents like this, etc but know when to pause and not go too far.

DB, why would you be behind a closed door in your house when your daughter arrives home after you haven't seen her for 10 days?  I would be scrubbing pots or otherwise cleaning the kitchen, folding laundry in the living room, or otherwise right in the center of the house.  It's your house, too.  That is not escalating.  Your wife may say it is, but that is ridiculous.  You would have to be ready for her response, and you'll want to look for opportunities to de-escalate and not provoke, so I'm not advising that you go overboard.  But for you to just "happen" to be cleaning the kitchen when they get home is not provocative.  Then your daughter hugs you and you follow her cues, with courtesy towards your wife.  You don't need permission from your wife to spend time with your daughter.  Reading or playing a game in a common space of the house might be good.  Your wife might be annoyed, but that seems like a better story to tell than taking her to a basement room if your wife is making allegations (at least in the first hours while you're assessing the situation). 

Now, don't you feel the need to cook a very complicated late afternoon meal, using lots of pots and pans?  Something with burned on cheese that could keep you in the kitchen for a long time?

WW

Good point, WW - i probably should have come up with a plan to be in the open areas for the reason being its my property too. But i just sent this note so i should probably stick with it:


The main reason i did this was to prevent what usually happens. If theres confusion or lack of communication between my wife and i regarding D4, my wife will always claim “ownership” of the time and escalate in fromt of D4. If i stand my ground, she’ll reach in and grab D4. If i try and hold D4’s hand or hug her because she’s clinging to me, my wife will grab for her.

Now more than ever i need to avoid that scene.

I faced increasing conflict in the final months together before separation and divorce.  I felt I needed to protect myself from allegations (which yes eventually were made) and document that I wasn't the one behaving badly.  By the time the divorce was over I had 3 digital recorders, just in case one or another was full or had dying batteries.  This was before I had a phone that could include recording apps.  In the early years no one wanted to listen to them but they were my 'insurance' just in case needed.  And having my proof I wasn't the aggressor or the one raging helped me sleep a bit better at night.

However, I didn't wave my recorder around in her face.  Usually it was in a pocket, unadvertised, so I wasn't tempting an incident by waving a red flag in front of a bull.  While recordings might have demonstrated how poorly she behaved, my stated purpose was to document about me, that I wasn't behaving poorly.

DB77,

Probably wise to keep it low key and set some boundaries in the house for a few days. 

If the temp is steady or decreases... .that's when I would have some more activity in the common area of the house.

Again... it's your house... .

but... good move being cautious at the start.

remember... .bait will be there... a lot of it.  Ignore it.

FF

DB, it's time for you to walk around with a really sensitive voice-activated recorder in your shirt pocket.

Courts have had a reputation for reluctance to listening to recordings.  But usually that is months after the incident.  Often the police are willing to listen to a recording before carting us off to jail, that could save you from being carted away (police usually separate the parents to defuse the immediate incident) or arrested (sorry, women are generally considered the victims).

I called police one time.  Two officers came.  Both spoke with her, one spoke wth me.  I was asked to hand our preschooler over to his mother and "step away".  He had been quietly sobbing in my arms until then.  When I tried to comply he started shrieking and clinging tighter to me.  The officer stared at me for a few moments then said "work it out" and they left.  Months later when I hired my divorce lawyer he mused that he had been a police officer years before and policy was to drive off with one of the disputing parties.  He was surprised I wasn't carted off.  Ever since I've considered that my preschooler 'saved' me that day.

Yes, my recorder had been running but its speaker didn't work and so sadly it was of no help then.  The recording that day was later used in court when she faced a Threat of DV charge.  However, judge applied case law which surprised the ADA, said the threats weren't 'imminent' and declared her Not Guilty.

A recording kept my bro in law from being arrested... .my SIL was very convincing to the police... .after smashing her arm in a car door several times.

A recording went in my favor a couple of times when "a matter of truth" came up in counseling situations.

Of course... .my paranoid wife accused me of "faking" the recording... .and the counselor then understood a bit better.

Recordings are great to have for YOUR sanity.  Using them for other purposes... .you need to think through long and hard.  Obviously let police listen... .anytime it could be an issue.

FF

DB, I understand the situations you describe entirely.  You are right to focus on what your daughter sees.

When prudence allows it, I would through actions not words try to walk back "residing" to just mean "sleeping."  There isn't a kitchen down in the basement is there?  Cook for your daughter we in the kitchen.  Cook for yourself whenever you are hungry.  Clean up after everyone and note it in your journal.

Give us an update on how this evening went!

WW

Things went amazingly well. The note i sent had the intended effect. Daughter walks in, uses the barhroom, knocks on door, and i am parenting the rest of the day. Lunch, dinner, bath, bed, all without a bit of confrontation or baiting.

This morning, D4 comes down at 6:30 or so, quite early for her on a non-school day. I make a bed for her, she sleeps a bit, plays a couple games, and then Mom took over at about 8:30.

This afternoon will be another test. I had proposed an interim plan, but she refused to accept it. So i sent her a note “Per my proposed agreement, i will be home at 1pm to begin my time with D4” She writes back “There is currently no agreement. However, if you would like to spend time with D4, I am ok with that and request that you tell me generally where you will be and what time you’ll be back”

All in all it’s good so far, but the issues in front of the court now are weighing heavily on my mind. These allegations of neglect and cruelty are so twisted yet I can see how someone might believe them if they were reading them the first time. I guess that’s what my attorney is for, to guide me through that?

I'm so happy for you that you got to spend some time with your daughter... .and I must say that it appears your stbx is being sort of reasonable... .for the moment.

FF

What defines a personality disorder?  Traits, which we all have, are distorted and unbalanced to such an extreme that it morphs the person's perceptions, thinking and behaviors.

So look at her refusal to accept your proposal.  In her mind it weakens her Authority and Control so of course it is rejected.  Would you feel inclined to accept a schedule that weakened your world?  For you, those are background inclinations.  For her, they're screaming at her to reject and overreact.  Though we can understand where she is at, her perceptions still are not healthy or positive.

However, despite her refusal to agree, ponder how she responds to your notification of "I will... ."  It doesn't trigger her overmuch.  She allows it in general so she is not totally oppositional and obstructive at this point.  That's good.  You set a boundary, namely, "this is what I will do as parent" and she doesn't challenge that boundary.  Try not to let her weaken that boundary.  Often new boundaries are opposed with extinction bursts of extreme demands to overwhelm your new boundaries.


A caution here.  Her request is understandable with the current level of discord in your lives.  You could even picture yourself requesting that.  It's okay not to leave her totally in the dark or inflame her with "I will do whatever, go wherever and whenever I want" retort.  But be careful she doesn't become your parental monitor.  Don't give her any support to claims that you need to be supervised.  Many of our disordered spouses claimed in court that we needed court ordered supervision, monitoring, reduced overnights or reduced time with our children.  Too often courts are willing to lean toward the concept of mothers controlling and hogging parenting, that is is socially okay to relegate fathers to alternate weekends and paying mother child support.  There is every reason for you to properly counter, or at least not acquiesce to, anything that would limit your reasonable parenting.

This is fascinating.

She is ok with you spending time with D4.

Yet you have six horns and breathe fire.

So what is it? Are you ok or not?

She doesn't seem to have this part of the story straight.

You'll likely see more of this. She'll make allegations, and then there will be strange gaps in the emotional integrity of what she says and does.

Keep communicating by email.

":)4 had a nice time this afternoon so I think we'll go back and do the same thing again tomorrow. She talked about making cookies with you last week -- that was a big hit. It's good she seems happy and for the most part, is doing ok while we adjust to new arrangements."

Stuff like that to show you can focus on D4 and even toss out a nice compliment despite the sturm und drang going on around you.

It speaks to your character and gives you an alternative narrative to what she is trying to say about you.

That's fantastic that you had such a good day!

Save her e-mail and any other e-mails talking about giving you unsupervised time with your daughter in a special folder where they'll be easy to find later.

Start a journal of your daily care of your daughter.  I love livednlearned's e-mail idea.  Not only could you e-mail her, but you could send a daily e-mail to one of your parents, a sibling, or a trusted friend who would be willing to testify for you in court.  This would be time-stamped contemporaneous evidence of your activities with your daughter.

WW

That must have been a shock to return home and see your family gone. I don't have legal advice- not having gone through divorce, but wanted to add that I have seen this inconsistency. As livednlearn said- you have six horns and yet, she leaves your child with you.

As to that marital agreement you signed possibly under duress. I have seen that pattern with my parents- BPD mother would want something from my father- something against his better judgment and yet, he would do it- either to keep the peace, or after being pressured/berated into it. Whatever it was she wanted- to her, it had some magical quality to it- it would be the "one thing" to save their marriage, make her happy, but it didn't work for the long run. The other side of this pattern has been that giving in reinforced these behaviors and so they persisted.

I am glad you are working with a lawyer and I encourage you to stand strong, not cruel, but strong and do not give in to emotions in the moment. I say this because of dealing with my BPD mother now as an adult. She isn't an evil person, but the nature of her mental illness is that, in victim mode, she is relentless and capable of emotional cruelty to a degree I can't even think of. This is where I see that I don't think like her-and we tend to think that the people we are close to are like-minded about how we relate to others. I can't even imagine saying or doing these things-  and the way I need to deal with her is to understand how she is thinking. If I don't - I feel blindsided or take the behaviors personally. She isn't criminal-she would not cause bodily harm- but when she feels like a victim, she can say anything to get her way and be manipulative and she has fabricated things about me to others.

I am glad you spent some time with your daughter. I agree with the advice to getting your legal rights to parenting solid legally. You may hopefully see more of her.  Solo parenting can be challenging and I don't think your STBXW has experienced what that is like. Even with a parenting agreement, you might find she wants you to keep your daughter on "her" time or she may also change her mind when it is "your" time.

Setting aside whether that "postnup" is legally valid (it would at least have needed to be notarized or perhaps even had legal representation) "signed under duress" is one approach.  Another approach would be that it no longer applies since you subsequently learned additional information that makes such paperwork outdated and unenforceable.

That concept is one I've mentioned before.  Some spouses or parents arrive here as new members stating they promised ____.  Well, yes they did but they didn't know the whole story.  They didn't realize the other's behaviors matched abnormal Personality Disorder traits.  We all have have personality traits, that's what makes us unique from assembly line robots.  However, when they're to an extreme, dysfunctional and unhealthy then that makes the prior promises in need of review and reconsideration.