Week One - Preparing for the worst

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So, it's time for my 18 year marriage to come to an end. I suppose that if it has been up to me, this would have dragged out a number of months before I filed. Honestly, I thought she was going to wait out the summer and maybe even the fall to see if things improved.

But she didn't wait, she filed. So I am officially the Respondent, and here we are.

I met with my attorney for an hour today to go over some initial details, and it turns out my STBXw has hired a notoriously difficult attorney. It figures. She's been notoriously difficult herself for 18 years. Seems her attorney is a perfect fit.

I suppose I should back up a few days, and mention that I was informed by my wife that she was filing for divorce via a text message. I was on the west coast, and she was home on the east coast. She packed up for a week away, took our daughter and our dog, and went with her mother in law to a weekly rental somewhere in a nearby town. She isn't sharing exactly where she is, but I have a pretty good idea.

When I got the initial news, I contacted my attorney and asked what I could, or should, do, and her advice was to not jump up and down. Don't make things worse at this point, she said. She said, send your wife a BIFF e-mail that states you did not discuss and agree on a week-long vacation with our daughter alone. She said to state that you are requesting reciprocal time upon their return. I also set out a proposed schedule for the next month.

My STBX did not respond, and simply redirected my note to her attorney.

Fast forward to our meeting today, and according to her attorney, the complaint is still with the process server and they're attempting to redirect it to my attorney, so neither I nor my attorney have seen the complaint yet. We did confirm that one was on the way, though. We also came to the conclusion that direct communication with my wife will probably not be productive or even possible. So, she suggested, work on a parenting schedule, and we will submit that to her attorney with a restatement of the e-mail I sent. If they reject the proposed agreement, which we sort of assume they will, then we file for a hearing and set things up right the first time.

I've learned my lesson here and from every other friend who is an attorney (apparently I have quite a few?) that it's next to impossible to change the status quo once it's been established.

So, 2 full days after landing back at my empty home, I've been fully immersed in the Family Law, Custody, Co-parenting, and Divorce world. Can't say I'm GLAD to be here, but I'm glad everyone is here ;-)

Any advice or insight on the above? Overall I'm happy with the plan, but man, this is only day 2, and what a ride already!

~DB77

[DaddyBear77]

So, it's time for my 18 year marriage to come to an end. I suppose that if it has been up to me, this would have dragged out a number of months before I filed. Honestly, I thought she was going to wait out the summer and maybe even the fall to see if things improved.

But she didn't wait, she filed. So I am officially the Respondent, and here we are.

I met with my attorney for an hour today to go over some initial details, and it turns out my STBXw has hired a notoriously difficult attorney. It figures. She's been notoriously difficult herself for 18 years. Seems her attorney is a perfect fit.

I suppose I should back up a few days, and mention that I was informed by my wife that she was filing for divorce via a text message. I was on the west coast, and she was home on the east coast. She packed up for a week away, took our daughter and our dog, and went with her mother in law to a weekly rental somewhere in a nearby town. She isn't sharing exactly where she is, but I have a pretty good idea.

When I got the initial news, I contacted my attorney and asked what I could, or should, do, and her advice was to not jump up and down. Don't make things worse at this point, she said. She said, send your wife a BIFF e-mail that states you did not discuss and agree on a week-long vacation with our daughter alone. She said to state that you are requesting reciprocal time upon their return. I also set out a proposed schedule for the next month.

My STBX did not respond, and simply redirected my note to her attorney.

Fast forward to our meeting today, and according to her attorney, the complaint is still with the process server and they're attempting to redirect it to my attorney, so neither I nor my attorney have seen the complaint yet. We did confirm that one was on the way, though. We also came to the conclusion that direct communication with my wife will probably not be productive or even possible. So, she suggested, work on a parenting schedule, and we will submit that to her attorney with a restatement of the e-mail I sent. If they reject the proposed agreement, which we sort of assume they will, then we file for a hearing and set things up right the first time.

I've learned my lesson here and from every other friend who is an attorney (apparently I have quite a few?) that it's next to impossible to change the status quo once it's been established.

So, 2 full days after landing back at my empty home, I've been fully immersed in the Family Law, Custody, Co-parenting, and Divorce world. Can't say I'm GLAD to be here, but I'm glad everyone is here ;-)

Any advice or insight on the above? Overall I'm happy with the plan, but man, this is only day 2, and what a ride already!

~DB77

[Speck]

DaddyBear77:

Man... .so sorry you're here.

Real quick: after my uBPDxw emailed me her intention to file for divorce SIX days after walking out, I just handled all legal communication via my attorney. It's a more expensive route, yes, but one that I felt I needed to undertake for my own sanity. My uBPDxw walked out of a house (that I paid for in full in 2008 before we married), our kid is not biologically mine (I informally adopted her), and we have an identical income - so the court ruled that I didn't owe her a dime.

Regardless, I will be financially assisting our kid with college because I choose to. That starts this year.

While you and I both married pwBPD, I do think that our settlement situations are different enough that I wouldn't be any help to you in that regard, but I do think you're on the right track as far as hiring a female attorney and digging into the legal crap early.

With you ALL the way... .til it's done.


-Speck

[Radcliff]

Hey DB,

Alrighty then.  You've got this.  You are an organized thinker, in control of your emotions, have a strong bond with your daughter, are educated on the issues, have a good working relationship with your lawyer, and are well supported here and elsewhere.  And all of that was in place before the first "shot" was fired.  You are prepared for this.

This is a bit of a random thought, but I wanted to share it.  One thing that is typical in a custody evaluation is a session where the evaluator observes a parent and child for about an hour, as they play games, do a craft project together, etc.  In one recent session I'm aware of, the parent was able to bring the props (a game, a craft project).  I imagine you with your daughter in such a session, with both of you very open to each other, carrying on a running conversation, you drawing her out and her chit-chatting.  I'm thinking in such a scenario you would kick *ss.  Her love for you and your rapport with her would be obvious.

The choice of the evaluator can be important.  Do you know yet if the court just appoints one, or if both parties have to agree on the evaluator?  If the parties must agree, hopefully your lawyer knows some of the local evaluators.

How long ago did you read "Splitting?"  It's been a while for me, and yesterday I started re-reading it.  I'm glad I did.  It'd be a good pre-game warmup.  You may want to quickly read Eddy's other book, ":)on't Alienate the Kids."  I imagine you may be worried about your wife's behavior w.r.t. alienation.  I've just barely started the book, but it seems like it has a healthy, centering message.

Another thing with evaluations is that you may be offered a chance to submit materials to the evaluator.  This is a good opportunity.  You could submit documents describing your parenting activities, for example.  I bet if you sat down and just wrote off the top of your head, describing a typical day with your daughter, everything you've done for her in the last month, what your responsibilities are, etc. it would at the very least boost your confidence and may provide fodder for the evaluation later.  Particularly of note would be responsibilities typically done by the mom.  You should know all the names of her preschool teachers, any friends names, etc.

Likewise, you may want to write a brainstorm of the poor parenting behaviors of your wife.  What you eventually share with an evaluator, if anything, will go through a careful filtering process where both you and your lawyer would have to agree on including it.  You won't want to exaggerate or talk about things that are extremely subjective.  But if she has clear "out of bounds" behaviors, you want to at least talk to your lawyer about them.  Your strongest play will be positive things about you. 

Do you have any documentation of your wife's behavior?  Obviously, problematic parenting behaviors will be the most relevant, but dysregulated or threatening rants on e-mail or text could be helpful.  The primary argument is that you're a great parent and your daughter needs a lot of time with you, but think hard about what documentation you have on your wife, and don't hold anything back from sharing with your lawyer.

You and your lawyer will be preparing documentation to file in court and probably with an evaluator.  Make sure you read and approve anything that is submitted.  It all must speak with your voice and you may find an opportunity to correct inaccuracies, tone something down (or up) or add a supporting detail, etc.

What is your aim with regards to parenting time?  Are you aiming for 50%?  More?  Less?  If you neglected work responsibilities, what you think is likely, etc., and just looked at your parenting skills, your wife's parenting skills, and the needs of your daughter, what split of parenting time do you think would be best for your daughter?

WW

[SlyQQ]

Have you made a request to communicate with your daughter, supervised would be good , don't allow undocumented instances to occur even to the extent of recording the time you spend with your daughter, beware.

needless to say dont tell her you are taping

[toomanydogs]

DaddyBear,
  I read your other post about coming home to an empty house. I was so angry on your behalf. I don't really tend to believe in good people versus bad people, but in the case of BPD, I kind of do. Reading your story and others on these boards and knowing my own story, I keep getting hit in the face with the complete lack of empathy these people exhibit. It is, to me, trying to have a grown-up relationship with an infant. Infants are darling and captivating, but they can't gauge the impact they have on others. At all. Infants, by biological necessity, are about infants, not about their parents, but somewhere along the line infants grow into toddlers grow into preschoolers and so on, and along the way, they learn empathy. They learn their actions can hurt people. pwBPD don't seem to have ever learned that, and I am so sorry.
  I do not have custody issues with my divorce, only financial issues. Not half as worrisome.
  I am glad you have an attorney you can work with.
  I also agree with Wentworth, you are prepared for this. Organized thinking is incredibly helpful. Control of your emotions? Yes, but I'd still prepare for feeling like s**t and just letting yourself feel it then pick yourself up. (This comes from my own life experience, that if I don't feel the feeling, it will come back in some other form and it will be worse.)
  I'm rereading "Splitting" right now, and the book has even been more helpful than when I initially read it.
  I wish you weren't on the divorce boards. I know you'd wanted to delay all this for a while. My marriage was for ten years, and the relationship was for eleven. For me, all of this has been painful even though I'm glad my STBX is out of my life. My life is much less chaotic right now, and my thinking is much much clearer.
  I'll tell you what all my sisters told me when this chapter in my life started: You'll get through it.
TMD

[GaGrl]

What will you do immediately with your financial arrangements with your wife? Has she taken joint funds alreadu? Can you close joint accounts and get your own, protected funds set up quickly?

Start now to pull receipts that tell your financial story... .the trip to Japan, the new diamond engagement ring as recent as a few months ago. You will need to show how and why you accumulated the family debt.

What do you think she is expecting to walk away with?

[flourdust]

Your plan sounds fine for where you are -- the first steps of this process.

My overall recommendation is that you need to be assertive and fair in your proposals, but not generous. Generosity will not be rewarded by either your ex or the court. Your wife and her attorney will advocate fiercely for what they want -- you need to be firm in asserting your rights and not give up financial or parenting equity in the interest of earning brownie points. It sounds like you are on the right track.

[livednlearned]

Hi DaddyBear77,

It sounds like you have your helmet on and seat belt fastened.

Even so, I'm sorry you have to go through this, and I'm glad you have friends here to turn to and walk with you down this path.

 

it turns out my STBXw has hired a notoriously difficult attorney.

Difficult in what way?

I've learned my lesson here and from every other friend who is an attorney (apparently I have quite a few?) that it's next to impossible to change the status quo once it's been established.

Yes.

And it made me wonder if your ex's attorney advised her to leave while you were gone, and maybe even slow down the complaint so that you begin this experience a bit out of step in obstruction-extension-stonewall land.

The complaint, from what my L told me, is mainly an opportunity for hurting people to vent raw emotion. You might even want to spare yourself the teeth gnashing and have one of your L friends read it and tell you what in it is worth worrying about, if anything.

The judge in my county doesn't even read it.

My L advised that I ignore it, which was hard to do! She said to hang tight and let the process work so we could start to get a grip on my ex's plan, and what he might do or say that we needed to pay attention to, or better yet document.

Has your L had to litigate against your ex's L before?

[Radcliff]

livednlearned makes a very good point about the complaint potentially containing hurtful information.  Prepare to be very upset by some of the things you read.  Put the document away and don't even worry about it for a while.  Any rebuttal, if there needs to be one, likely will be smaller than you initially feel you'd like to reply with, and you'll be able to do it with less energy if you wait a bit and talk to your lawyer about it.  Her distortions becoming public may be very upsetting, but remember, you are better equipped to deal with lawyers, judges, and evaluators as a problem solver, and her distortions and other behaviors are potentially even more threatening to the outcome for her than they are to you, if you keep cool.

WW

[DaddyBear77]

Wow. Thanks everyone. Each time I post, I'm overwhelmed by the supportive helpful responses. I really appreciate that.

Speck, I hear you about the official communication through attorneys. Since it's being pushed on me anyway, I'll embrace it and try and be as BIFF as I possibly can. My attorney gave me a big compliment on my first letter which I tried sending directly to my STBXw, even though she didn't respond.

WW, let me try and take your questions one by one... .

Do you know yet if the court just appoints one, or if both parties have to agree on the evaluator?

I don't know this answer yet, but I DO know that my attorney has mentioned an extensive network of professionals. I'm hoping we can use hers.

How long ago did you read "Splitting?"... .It'd be a good pre-game warmup.  
You may want to quickly read Eddy's other book, ":)on't Alienate the Kids."  I imagine you may be worried about your wife's behavior w.r.t. alienation.

Great suggestions. I have Kindle versions of Splitting and other books, and I was reading the section on BIFF for warmup. I think it would certainly help to re-read it. I may even get a physical copy so it's easier to take notes. I'll also check out the other book.

Do you have any documentation of your wife's behavior?  Obviously, problematic parenting behaviors will be the most relevant, but dysregulated or threatening rants on e-mail or text could be helpful.

I have some evidence of dysregulated behavior, but nothing that would be a "smoking gun" I don't think. I have enough to paint an accurate picture of what the relationship was like, so that's my goal. This is something I haven't had need to speak with my attorney yet - under what circumstances would I need this? Is it more a defensive position? In my specific circumstances I'm not sure when I'd need it, but I have as much as I need I think.

What is your aim with regards to parenting time?  Are you aiming for 50%?

Yes. 50/50. And I've completed a parenting schedule through the start of the new school year, which I think is going to be the basis of our first salvo to her attorney.

SlyQQ:

Have you made a request to communicate with your daughter

Yes, but there's been no response yet. I made the request directly to my wife who then redirected it to her attorney. The advice I'm getting is to let things lie for now. It's hard. Really hard. I can only imagine what its like right now for her, spending 10 days alone with someone who's decided to divorce me.

Gagrl

What do you think she is expecting to walk away with?

So, before the debt started to explode with the most severe of demands, my wife and I made an agreement (kind of like a post-nup) - I said I'd take on the debt that's in my name and she'd take on the debt in her name. At the time, I had a reasonable amount of debt and she had a small amount of student debt. Since that agreement was signed, our total debt has increased to between 5 and 7 times the amount it was 10 years ago. A massive increase. And most of it ended up in my name, because for the most part she didn't have a job, her credit was worse, and when she WAS working she made about half of what I made.

I'm sure she expects me to take on 95% to 100% of the debt. I expect to give her a rude awakening. My lawyer is reviewing the agreement now.

livedandlearned

Difficult in what way?

My lawyer told me that he's notorious for churning files. So in a way, that says nothing about his skill level or effectiveness in anything other than causing financial pain. But what was also interesting to me was that my lawyer also knows the counselor that my wife is seeing, and volunteers for the same organization to which my wife's counselor is a part of. We believe there may be a connection here, where my wife has been immersed in a system that promotes a victim mentality, which is then going to be carried over to her legal team.

Has your L had to litigate against your ex's L before?

Yes, and that's the good news here. I am trusting my lawyers approach and judgement here, and I feel like whatever my wife's lawyer has to offer, my lawyer will have a well-informed response that will sit more favorably with any judge that might need to hear it.


And thanks TMD and flourdust for the helpful encouragement. You're right, TMD - I will get through it.

As for what I'm up to right now... .
My lawyer has told me not to worry and take things one step at a time, so that's what I've been doing. There are two things I need to get done this weekend. The first is to finish a proposed parenting schedule and plan. I found a great website to help with that and it's going well. The second is to finish the financial disclosure sheet. THAT part is a huge pain in the butt but I'm making progress on it.

Thanks again for everyone's help and suggestions - gonna rest up now and get back at it tomorrow.

[Radcliff]

DB,

Regarding documentation of your wife's bad behavior, you might not need it.  The healthiest and most efficient approach may be to just play the straight man, a dad asking for 50/50 time, and not have to say anything bad about your wife.  Less work for you, you don't have to risk looking like the bad guy, etc.  But it may become relevant to your case.  Just let your lawyer know what you have, and talk it out as things develop.

"Splitting" has a section on evaluators.  That's great to hear that your lawyer has an extensive network of professionals.  That's exactly how we got our evaluator, my lawyer suggested her to my wife's lawyer, and they went with it.  One approach is to suggest two or three evaluators from your lawyer's network to your wife's lawyer, and let them pick one.

WW

[ForeverDad]

Your wife did work until a few years ago.  However, I'm sure she will ask for spousal support as well as child support.  Predictable.  First, be careful not to seem trying to avoid supporting your child.  Courts are jaded by dads who demand a lot of parenting time just to avoid paying CS.  Don't get caught in that trap.

However, you are entirely within your rights to ask that her support requests include an equivalent to her past income, that is, her imputed or potential income.  I recall when my ex was having CS calculated and she was not working they imputed her income at minimum wage.  She had worked until our son was born but she was making only a few dollars over the minimum wage.

Probably a good strategy is to ask the court that she find a job to support herself.  It may take a year or two but that is not an unreasonable request.  Court will like to see both parents moving on in their lives.

Good that you are asking for equal treatment, such as in a week for yourself and child after she had a week for herself and child.  Court often does not concern itself with make-up time or 'fairness'.  In my case, when we were between temp orders, my now-ex block all father-child contact for three months, including phone calls.  When the magistrate confirmed this from her he commented, "I'll fix that."  His fix was simply to restart a temp order with her again having temp custody and temp majority time.  She didn't get any lectures and I didn't get any make-up time.

You child is probably in kindergarten or first grade by now.  A few thoughts... .she will probably try to claim you're not an involved parent.  So be sure to know the names of the teachers, doctor, dentist, etc.  Go to any school sponsored events or parent-teacher appointments.  Your spouse cannot stop you from attending (unless the court order states so) but you may end up having separate appointment times.

My ex tried to file allegations to keep me away from my preschooler but fortunately the court never limited me to supervised visitation, not even temporarily while checking me out.

Be aware that some courts still default to setting mothers as Primary Parent.  That doesn't mean you have to accept it.  Seek as much parenting responsibility and time as possible.  Don't be timid.  If you believe you ought to be Primary Parent, state so from the outset.  Even if court ignores it at first, you will have declared your position and during the divorce process it will be resolved to some extent.

Beware of being fair.  For example you may think equal time is 'fair'.  But your spouse will likely want majority time.  What will court think when she asks for 90-99% when you ask for 50%?  Might the judge split the difference and assign you typical alternate weekends and an evening or overnight in between?  That works out to about 20% for you.

I had 22% for 2.5 years in temp orders.  Fortunately I had long 72 hour weekends from Friday pm to Monday pm.  She will try to limit you to short weekends.  Try to at least get them from end of school on Friday to start of school on Monday.  And if no Monday school, due to holidays usually being on Mondays, then to Monday pm.

My custody evaluator wanted us to have equal time but added that alternate weeks was too long for a young child to be away from the other parent.  He said for children under 10 years of age a 2-2-5-5 schedule was best.  So my ex got Mon-Tue overnights, I got Wed-Thu overnights and the three overnight weekends were alternated.

As I wrote above, it is okay to ask for what you think is right for your child, even if it is more than what you think you might walk out with.

What I'm thinking is that Father would do well to also ask for what he feels would really and truly fix the issues long term... .  "Your Honor, I believe that our family circumstances require me to become the custodial parent, Residential Parent for school Purposes and Primary Parent with majority parenting schedule.  Failing having custody, I believe that having Decision Making or Tie Breaker status with equal time would at least improve the current state of parenting and our children's welfare.  Mother has demonstrated that she is unwilling to cooperate and share, something I can do as a reasonable involved parent.  I am concerned that half-measures will be insufficient and the time spent on minor changes will continue enabling the other parent to further sabotage the relationship of the children with their Father... ."  Of course, long term solutions aren't handled in an ex parte filing but there shouldn't be any harm including it, though of course we're not lawyers here.

What that does is let the judge know father is not one willing to be a token father, he is stepping forward.  Also, it presents to court that if the court's usual minimal changes don't work, then father will again return to court to state what would work and again ask for real solutions, not small patches on an order that's not working.

My lawyer once explained to me one reason why courts are reluctant to make big changes to an order, "Courts don't want to upset the children."  My response was, "What if NOT making big changes will upset the children?"

[livednlearned]

My lawyer has told me not to worry and take things one step at a time, so that's what I've been doing.

Is that sitting ok with you?

A lesson I learned the hard way -- let your T help you with the psychological stuff (worry) and the L help you with the legal stuff (prep). If you are worrying, talk to your T.

If you are feeling a bit anxious about what your L is handling, get up in her business and ask

Remember that both of them work for you, especially your L.

There's no need to hope that you can use your L's network of professionals. You are the one paying her bills. Would you feel comfortable telling your L you want the names of three of the court's most respected evaluators, and that your wife's team can pick which one? Then ask when that particular request will go into action. It's perfectly reasonable for you to ask this, and to know within a ballpark when your L will be filing a motion for custody evaluation.

Taking things one step at a time is a good psychological mindset.

Being assertive and forward thinking is ok.

They are a bit different.

Another thing that stuck out a bit. Curious to hear your thoughts:

Shouldn't you be trying to call your daughter every night? Even if your wife doesn't answer, don't you want to be able to say, "I tried calling my D every day. For 10 days straight, I tried to call. I emailed. My wife did not respond, not once. I was redirected to ex's L, who never responded. I had no way to contact my daughter and for 10 whole days, the longest time I have ever gone without talking to my child, I had no contact with her."

What does your L say about the lack of contact and how it will get turned around?

On a separate (but related) note:

If your wife's L is known for file churn, what strategy does your L have to counter that?

It might be a good idea to make doubly sure that your L does not grant any extensions or change court dates without checking with you first. Lots of attorneys move court dates around and coordinate their schedules to be collegial. What is your L going to do when wife's L postpones and obstructs and stonewalls? You may want a strategy for that, something you agree to together -- maybe do it by email so you have something you can reference in writing.

Even regular lawyers do this, so now that you know wife's L is known for this, it's a sign this needs some extra focus.

For your L, it might be a pain in the butt. For you, it's expensive and could accelerate parental alienation and prevent you from seeing your daughter. I think that's a perfectly valid thing to worry about!

About your wife's behaviors. My guess is that there will be mediation of some kind? You likely won't get what is reasonable, so there should be a strategy for that, too. What's your bottom line on custody and debt? How will you structure your first offer? Meaning, you know she will be entitled and overreach. You want to do a bit of the same so that you have some room to move toward reasonable, giving the other side a sense of *winning* if there is such a thing in family law court.

--or--

If she isn't willing to budge on her requests, you suspend the mediation and prepare for court. If her symptoms are more or less under control (which seems more likely when there is a replacement in the picture... .) then she may listen to her L and settle out of court.

That's preferable.

However, what happens for many of us is that we get some kind of settlement that is more or less reasonable, and then end up going to court when the other part repeatedly violates the order.

With some careful planning and assertiveness on your part (and by extension your L) you can avoid some of the egregious financial drain and time wasting.

But remember that your L does not feel the emotional and psychological pain when things drag on like you do. To the contrary, she gets paid! You have to be the one asking pointed questions, overseeing the management of the strategy, making sure you understand why things are happening the way they are, and proposing solutions that might close loopholes and save some money.

Even good lawyers will do reasonable things that, when added up, can make things drag on in the long run, when they don't need to.

For example, I learned (because my ex was particularly litigious) that every motion had to propose a consequence for non-compliance. Otherwise, when my ex inevitably ignored the court order, and I went back to court, the judge would give ex a few more bites of the apple. So instead, I started to think ahead and get the consequences baked right into the motion. That way the judge could just look at the order and say, "Well it says here if n/BPDx didn't do x by day/date, then LnL would get to y and z. So that's what's going to happen. Including this part where n/BPDx is responsible for LnL's legal fees."

Have deadlines for everything and consequences for what happens if those deadlines are not met.

If I were in your shoes, I would want to know exactly what the L's plans were to reunite me with my child. Does it require an emergency (ex parte) order? What happens if you don't get served for another week, or 10 days? What is the strategy based on what you expect, knowing that the L is a churn factory, and that your wife will play victim, meanwhile obstructing and stonewalling and creating status quo?

It will get easier as you go -- you'll start to get a feel for how your L works and when to be assertive with her. These next few months will be a bit nuts, most likely. Do you have a T you're seeing?

LnL

[Radcliff]

I liked all of livednlearned's points, and will probably be re-reading this thread for myself at some point.  In particular:

There's no need to hope that you can use your L's network of professionals. You are the one paying her bills. Would you feel comfortable telling your L you want the names of three of the court's most respected evaluators, and that your wife's team can pick which one? Then ask when that particular request will go into action. It's perfectly reasonable for you to ask this, and to know within a ballpark when your L will be filing a motion for custody evaluation.

I think it's good advice to make sure you know exactly what requests your lawyer will be making and on exactly what day.  I only have experience with one case -- mine.  My lawyer communicates very well, and I always know when and what she's sending to the judge or my wife's lawyer.  If it's a written document, I've read and approved it first.  Lately, I've spotted an issue on one of the forms submitted, and realize that the next time forms go in, I'm going to need to proof read them as well.

Regarding the three evaluators.  In my case, these were three evaluators that were not just on my lawyer's networking list, but who she'd worked with before and understood their styles, and thought would be good for my case.  She had her favorite, and suggested it to opposing counsel, and it was agreed on.  It definitely makes sense to ask your lawyer to explain how much she's worked with each evaluator, and why she likes them for your case.

I'm also concerned about the idea of your wife keeping your daughter after the "vacation" week.  The vacation week itself was already overstepping.  Absolutely it seems like an emergency hearing would be called for, as well as you clearly communicating to her in whatever way your lawyer thinks is appropriate that she does not have your permission to have your daughter away from you.

WW

[Jeffree]

DB77,

Damn, it's been 12 years since my legal donnybrook with my first ex, so bear with me if you've heard this stuff before.

1) You do have to play not so nice here now. I'm not saying to be a hump, but you now have to act in your own best interests and the best interests of your D.

2) Thus, think if there are any incident reports against your STBx, be they cops being called to the house, any brouhahas between her and former employers, financial hardships in her name, phone records of any extramarital shenanigans. You want to establish a history of malfeasance, if possible.

3) Jerk off lawyer or not, your STBx's case will be weakened by her inability to communicate the facts fully and truthfully to her L (plus her demeanor when she's deposed), so there's a good chance her L will be caught off guard early and often.

4) I would see if you can see you STBx's "vacation" as abandoning the house, abducting your D, and ransacking your bank account.

5) I know it's a bit daunting right now, but in the end everything will be OK. Prepare to hear the worst, most hurtful language in her complaint for D, and expect to win the D under grounds of your choosing.

6) I would do my best to never be in the house at the same time and she is, if that's practical.

7) Try and remember her weak spot, something she is trying to avoid facing, to gain leverage against her. As my lawyer said when I couldn't figure out what happened to cause my ex to up and leave, "More than 80% of relationships end due to infidelity." And wouldn't you know it, I began finding evidence of an extramarital affair once I started looking. However, it wasn't until my deposition when I relayed some unsavory things about her mother (who was bankrolling her in the divorce) that they wanted to settle asap... .and good thing too, because I had just about run out of money.

8) Find and save all birthday, holiday cards and emails from her and to her expressing positive feelings toward one another. They will prove valuable in invalidating her claims against you. When my L had presented more than 100 greeting cards of my ex saying nice things to me and how she was thankful she was to have me, both she and her L sh1t purple Twinkies.

J

[Radcliff]

I am re-reading "Splitting" now, and just came across a quote that's relevant to us.  Eddy says that after the target has demonstrated independence or has achieved some element of power over the pwBPD or pwNPD, that is a prime time for the pwB/NPD to push back, make accusations, try to take control, etc.  So if you have any kind of win on any points, feel good for a moment but watch your back and be prepared to document.

WW

[DaddyBear77]

both she and her L sh1t purple Twinkies.

Jeffree, you win the award for "The One Thing That Made Me Laugh The Hardest Today" - thank you!

And to your point, sitting next to me as we speak is a box full of said cards and letters, which I had no idea what to do with until I read this. So thank you for that, too.

It's been a hard day today emotionally, so yes, I've reconnected with my T and we're going to carve out some time to work through this. I like what you said, LnL - you got your T and you got your L and they're both part of the team with different skill sets. I'm paraphrasing. But I get it. Completely.

I'll stick to the legal stuff here... .

My L reached out to me late this morning (as promised) with a draft letter and she attached a draft parenting schedule I drew up over the weekend. My L even added a bit to the letter about my STBXw needing to facilitate facetime with my daughter until they were done with their hiatus. She sent it at noon, and no response. No facetime. I looked back at the draft, and while I caught one "soft pedal" I missed the fact that my L didn't give a deadline (we had previously discussed a deadline).

So, I had read part of LnL's response this morning before I got sucked into my day, and I saw the part about calling my STBXw and insisting on speaking. Now, on the one hand, that WAS my first reaction. And I totally get the idea about appearances and what it will look like with a judge. On the other hand, I'm VERY aware of the possibility that anything I can do will be fuel added to this "he's an abuser" victim mindset. So I've been really back and forth on whether I should push the issue directly with her.

In the end, I decided I'd push the issue through my L and her L, but do so more aggressively. So tonight, as I was sitting here REALLY missing my D4, I sent a note to my L saying "We had agreed to a deadline. There was no deadline. I haven't heard a single word about  my D4's whereabouts or even her wellbeing since Sunday April 8th at 8:30PM. This is unacceptable. We need to talk about an alternate strategy"

I heard you all - assertive is what needs to happen.

In regards to what to ask for custody wise, I DID push things in my favor - I asked for every weekend through Labor Day to be with me. Everyone, and I mean everyone, said back to me "She's going to balk at that" and to them I say, GREAT! Let her balk! Then she can explain where she's been every weekend from January through April and why suddenly she wants to spend those weekends with D4! Because I sure as he! would like to know where she's been until 3 in the morning on Fridays and Saturdays! Especially when the last train to our station arrives at 2am.

So, yeah, fire lit. Afterburners at the ready.

Financials are another story. I have a confession to make - there's a "mid marriage" agreement that I signed when we got back together in 2009. I believe I must have been temporarily insane, out of my mind, or just so intensely codependent that I didn't care, but I signed the most UNfavorable agreement ever. I won't go into details, but lets just say that if that mid-marriage agreement holds, she gets the equity in the house and substantial support from me. Will it be the absolute end of the world if I have to adhere to it? No, I guess not. Was I stupid and did I learn a very painful mistake? You bet. But, my point is, strategy number one is to try and limit or eliminate enforcement of that agreement in favor of something more appropriate to the laws of my state.

But, in the end, my most important goal is parenting, so that's what I'm focused on primarily for the next 24 hours or so.

Thanks for this thread - this is awesome and I will be back with more updates soon.

[Radcliff]

DB,

Good work!  I think if you were to send a text to your wife today saying that you'll call your daughter on Facetime at 7pm and ask her to please have her ready, then call on FaceTime at 7pm,  there is no way you'd be seen as abusive by any reasonable person.  Expect that your attempt to connect will fail, and you'll log it.  But give it a shot.  Keep the text short and positive, pretending there's nothing crazy going on and you're just on a business trip.  Maybe you'll get lucky and she'll text back something you can get a screenshot of next to your reasonable request.  Or even luckier and she'll do the right thing and you'll talk to your daughter!

On the mid-marriage agreement, any chance she was represented by a lawyer and you weren't?  She had been keeping you awake for several nights in a row?  She was threatening your baseball card collection with a propane torch?  Attacking that agreement is one area where your lawyer can really earn her money.  And it's an area where it might be worth asking her to call for backup and get a second or third opinion from a very well regarded expert.

WW

[heartandwhole]

DB77,

This is a huge blow, and I'm sorry that things have unraveled to this point.   I have no experience in legal matters, divorce, or custody arrangements. You are getting 5 star advice from members here, and I just wanted to share my support and my thoughts on one point. 

For what it's worth: I don't think any judge will see your wanting to reach out to your daughter and acting upon that as abusive or harassing. You have every right to communicate with your daughter. You can make your attempts in a calm and reasonable way. Your daughter will eventually become aware of your attempts and it will make you feel better knowing that you tried your best to talk to her.

Hang in there. You can get through this.

heartandwhole

[Jeffree]

I sure as he! would like to know where she's been until 3 in the morning on Fridays and Saturdays!

Do you have the ability to either track her via her cell phone or to check her cell phone details? That should pretty much reveal everything. CC purchases?

Glad to have given you a moment of levity. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming of fighting your battle.

Hopefully you'll get a fair judge and that will set the tone the rest of the way.

BTW, do you think she will expect you to pay for her L, too?

J

[Jeffree]

Sorry, I had tried to edit my previous post with much more detail, but it must have timed out or something.

Regarding this mid-marriage contract, in order for her to get equity in the house, it would have to be sold. Can you delay that payment process by requesting to remain in the marital home until D is of legal age so as to keep a stable domicile for her? Your STBx left the house and abducted your D, I believe that should greatly strengthen your leverage here.

DO NOT EVER CONTACT YOUR WIFE DIRECTLY FROM HERE ON OUT... .unless directed by your L! If you think the mid-marriage agreement was misguided so will be any attempts on your part to contact your STBx.

J

[Jeffree]

I have some evidence of dysregulated behavior, but nothing that would be a "smoking gun" I don't think. I have enough to paint an accurate picture of what the relationship was like, so that's my goal. This is something I haven't had need to speak with my attorney yet - under what circumstances would I need this? Is it more a defensive position? In my specific circumstances I'm not sure when I'd need it, but I have as much as I need I think.

You need every shred of evidence you can find here as far back as you can find it in order to:

1) Let her L and her know you're playing hardball
2) To thwart any of her victimization bullcr@p
3) To establish a pattern of her dismal behavior toward you
4) To use it as a negotiating tactic

In this regard there is a HUGE difference between he said she said and legal documentation or proof of said malfeasance. She can try and defend her abduction of your D by accusing you of being abusive or creating an unsafe house, BUT if you have proof of HER doing something like this before, or cards and texts and emails where she says the opposite about you, then that makes her look like the criminal here.

As you know from the Splitting book, pwBPDs think they are above the law and that their "feelings" are the truth that will win out. However, in a court of law, proof is what reigns supreme. Document, document, document.

J

[GaGrl]

Just curious... .when you gave her a new diamond ring recently, was there a vow renewal involved?  I can't remember.

[DaddyBear77]

Hey everyone, real quick because I'm running pretty late to my next work meeting... .

My attorney just got the complaint and she forwarded it to me in an e-mail. She scheduled a phone consultation with me at 1pm. I figured I'd need to read the complaint ahead of time, although after reading your advice on here I was scared to do it. I did it anyway, and wow. Extreme cruelty. Real incidents, with dates, all twisted to fit her narrative of being the victim of an abusive relationship. The hardest parts were where she tried to paint me as dangerous to our daughter.

I feel sick to my stomach and barely able to put one foot in front of the other at this point, but I'll do it. I just thought I'd share that bit before I moved on to the rest of my day.

Thanks for the support - I really need it.

[Jeffree]

So typical... .yet still hurtful. I'm so sorry, DB77. 

"Real incidents with dates?" What does that mean? She has fabricated incidents and dates, or just changed the true instigator from herself to you for said incidents?

This is EXACTLY why you keep those positive cards, emails, and texts and also unearth as many of her questionable actions to counteract her scapegoating.

Son of a FN b1tch! I hate when horrible things happen to good people.

J

[Turkish]

For what it's worth: I don't think any judge will see your wanting to reach out to your daughter and acting upon that as abusive or harassing. You have every right to communicate with your daughter.

I don't think anyone would see it this way. Likely, there will be "no answer" but at least you logged that you made the attempt.

This is getting into "Child Psychological Abuse" territory, like Dr. Craig Childress says... .denying even verbal contact with your daughter.

[flourdust]

Some quick notes from a guy not that far ahead of you in the process... .

1. Definitely reach out to contact your daughter. Make a FaceTime call. Email your wife and say EXACTLY WHEN you will be calling and that you expect to talk to D4 at that time. Do it every day. If she refuses or ignores you, still keep emailing and FaceTiming daily and keeping a record -- this becomes evidence of her denying you parental rights.

2. The complaint sounds par for the course. And, yes, it sucks to read such a twisted, self-serving, self-victimizing narrative. Let's step back and think of the audience -- the court. The judge doesn't know you or your wife and doesn't have a lot of time to invest in this case. The judge wants things to move along and come to a resolution, with as little drama as possible. If your wife and her L are acting out histrionically and obstructing progress, but you and your L are responding calmly and proposing solutions -- that will be noticed!

The judge is likely to want to kick the he-said/she-said aspects of your case over to a professional evaluator -- it's a good strategy for you and your L to propose a parenting evaluator (and to identify some candidates that your L thinks are professional and understand personality disorder cases). Let the evaluator tell the judge about your wife's problems -- that will be 1000% more persuasive than you making that case directly.

3. The contract you signed may be bad for you, but it may also present a silver lining in that, if enforced, it also caps what she DOESN'T get. One thing to bear in mind is that gifts exchanged within the marriage are marital property -- so all the expensive jewelry, etc., is 50% yours.

[livednlearned]

I'm VERY aware of the possibility that anything I can do will be fuel added to this "he's an abuser" victim mindset. So I've been really back and forth on whether I should push the issue directly with her.

Even with my ex's documented abuse toward me and S9, I was told by my L to put S9 on the phone with his dad right away.

This is chess to lawyers.

So just to underscore this: Even with an abuser, kids are put in touch with the abusive parent.

Kids who have abusive parents still want a relationship with that parent.

That's what the research says, and that's what courts believe. Especially in the beginning of the case when everyone is pointing fingers.

When there is a he-said, she-said, the court shrugs at all the allegations and hearsay and waits to hear the evidence.

That's why custody evaluations and depositions and third-party professional testimony and our own documentation matter so much.

Your wife can say all she wants, but her story is not based in fact and she will struggle to keep it cohesive. My ex was a former trial attorney who told lies for a living and even he could not keep his story straight.

Ex would tell the court "LnL is a dangerous alcoholic megalomaniacal negligent parent with two heads and a forked tail" and then ask me 30 min later if I could take S9 next weekend so he could play bass in a band two towns away.

Listen to your L because that's legal advice and you're paying for it.

We are simply here to say how things worked for us, to give you some wind at your back, and hopefully help you avoid unnecessary pitfalls. Including lawyers that aren't as attuned to what's going on as you are. You can have a good L and make her excellent.

It takes a minute for the court to catch up with what's really going on, so keep taking deep breaths.

Use this time to get organized and centered.

And don't forget we have your back 

[GaGrl]

You will need to be able to tell your own story of the marriage.

Start by objectively listing events, with dates.  This will give you the narrative, and you can add/delete later.

Start with the beginning of the relationship, decision to marry, jobs taken, career moves, etc.

Include point at which you separated the first time, decision to reunite, financial agreement at that time.

Birth of daughter, beginning of refusal to allow you to take daughter to see other grandparents, holidays at which wife refused contact with your family.

Each demand for more money, reasons for money demands (when she first wanted another engagement ring, how many months she discussed it/demanded it, what she said to you regarding difficulty in affording jewelry, vacations, etc. as well as what you did in going into more debt to accommodate her demands).

When she began therapy, and with which organization.  When you began therapy.

When she quit working, when she went back to grad school, when you accompanied her on grad school in-residence trips.

When she began leaving your daughter with you in the evenings, time at which she began to stay out until early morning hours.


Be as specific with dates as possible.  Be specific, be objective.

[SlyQQ]

I posted this a couple of tears ago in a post of Moselle's ( i didnt cave in today, you should perhaps look at the thread)

the scenario you are going through is all to familiar and predictable, suprising but not suprising at all, everyone who is knowingly in a BPD relationship should prepare themselves for exactly this scenario or worse,

here is the post. two years old.


Your partners goals will likely be to destroy you she will probably project that like her you will be easy to provoke an evoke a rash action for which she will be fully prepared to take advantage off

your goal is to love cherish and protect your kids ( not destroy your p ) if you can be seen as the victim here you will gain there sympathy tell them you are trying to work things out with there mum an make every efort to do so despite what is thrown at you ( remember your most important allies are your children if you deliberately hurt thier mum you will hurt them

p.s. i am guessing here but the thrust of what i am saying is clear i hope