BPDFamily.com

As I mentioned on my last thread, I have recently started talking to my ex who I work with again and we had been very flirty with each other. We started talking in March and she split with her boyfriend not long after we started talking to each other. Nothing physical had happened, although it nearly did when we went out over a week ago.

Over the weekend we had been texting and she had suggested us meeting up on Sunday. I had thought this was a bad idea but after she suggested it more than once I decided "why not?" We met up and went for a bit of a walk and long story short she ended up back at mine.

I had set out for nothing physical to happen between us because I do feel as though she is capable of causing me a lot of trouble. Right now I feel OK about everything but she is already showing signs of going back to how she was when we were together. She's already started calling and texting non stop and she already made a comment, kind of as a joke but not really appropriate considering the situation, about how she loves me.

The other weird thing she said is "don't tell anyone at work about this." Which I was never going to do anyway - and never did first time around... .although she had already told her friend from work that she was at mine (and said she tells her "everything" so would probably tell her about it). AND everyone already thinks something is going on anyway, especially after the way we were on a night out last week.

I'm trying to keep a bit of distance between us because I don't want to get too involved with her again... .although I think I've already probably taken things too far! I just hope I can get out without her deciding she wants to ruin my life!

Hi Veryconfused,
 
Were you thinking that you could be friends or date casually, or something like that?

Do you think she wants to get closer? If so, how are you going to handle it?

heartandwhole

I was thinking we could be friends and, although there was flirting, I didn't think we'd end up taking it to a physical level again. She told me she really cares about me but she hasn't indicated that she wants anything more than sex and a friendship.

Only issue I have is that this is all she said she wanted last time as well... .and we ended up having a 6 month relationship which ended badly.

Unfortunately I don't really know what I want... .because if I did this would be so much easier!

As a very general statement... .unless one or both of you make changes in the way you "do" your relationship, it is very likely that your r/s will end up the way it did last time (broadly speaking).

So... .is it ok for that previous relationship pattern to play out again?

FF

I am staying a bit more detached this time because I don't think I want to move back into a full-on relationship as I think the age difference is too much of an issue (I'm 33, she's 20) and I really can't handle her drama. Neither of us have said we want anything more than something casual but I am sure it will go back that way.

One thing that has annoyed me a little is that she told me not to tell anyone at work what happened. Which was the right thing as far as I was concerned - I don't want to tell anyone what happened as that's between me and her. But she has already told the 3 people that she sits next to at work which is going against what we said. I wouldn't be so bothered about her saying anything if she hadn't already made it clear she didn't want anyone to know.

Hello Veryconfuseduk32 , nice to meet you here.

I think you're walking on very thin ice... .

This could be very dangerous for you, but if you want that to happen be aware of the  consequences.
From my experience, it's not possible to be in a 'close' friendship with a BPD woman (or man).

Good luck, hope you won't have the big drama with her.

So... how far do you want to go with this relationship?


How will this relationship improve your life? 

Could the time you have/will spend on this relationship be "spent" in other ways?

Would those "other ways" improve or degrade your quality of life.

FF

Interesting the title you chose for your thread.

Having had two BPD spouses, I'll pitch in my two cents. Yes, there's something really compelling about BPD individuals. They can seem so incredibly vulnerable and sexy and relationships with them can feel so overwhelming and exciting... .at the beginning. Then all hell breaks loose and soon we're dealing with unpredictable anger and weird behavior.

So often we think we can have the "nice" version of them and with love and tolerance, we can coax the "bad" version back into its cave.

Ain't gonna happen. It's a package deal. You've got to live with both sides. It's true if they're not too extreme, you can "manage" the "bad" side and make lemonade out of lemons. But it takes a lot of work on oneself. We have to learn new strategies for dealing with them because the toolkit we know that works with emotionally healthy people just won't work with someone with BPD.

The big question to ask yourself is knowing what you know, why would you voluntarily choose this again?

Nice to meet you as well! That is where I worry about it. I hope that it is possible to have a close friendship with her, but it's already gone further than I wanted it to. And I feel as though she is trying to start a bit of drama by telling people what happened after telling me she didn't want anyone to know. I know she's still causing a lot of drama with her ex-boyfriend who she got together with after me and I certainly don't want to get caught up on that.


There's the problem, I don't know!

Personally, I like the flirting and joking about at work. That's the main thing I enjoy about our friendship and I would prefer it to stay there. Although I do enjoy seeing her outside of work and what happened yesterday was fun. I just don't know whether how fun that was is worth the trouble she could cause.

I suppose what I want is too selfish from my side, but I played along with what she wanted last time and did end up very hurt. As what happened yesterday happened without any expectation of anything more happening between us I'm treating the situation as that we are still just friends. I just don't want to end up hurt and I don't want to be the focus of her next big drama.

Thank you for your reply!

I think the reason for the title is because this is exactly the way our first relationship started. We flirted and chatted a lot at work, met up, had sex and then we spent almost every day together until we split up. I really don't want to be dragged back into that situation again and I'm concerned that escalating the relationship to a physical level is a big mistake as it may push her to think that we're going back to that again. Hopefully I'm wrong!

I think your analysis about what is attractive about it is absolutely right and I think that's what's drawing me in again. I really do like spending time with her when I'm at work and when it's just fun and light. But then I think about all of the times she told me she was going to kill herself because of what I did, started arguments for no reason and then tried to convince me I was going crazy when she cheated on me.

I know that she is both of those people, not just one of them and that I need to accept that. And I can't accept that person being a serious romantic partner, but I can accept her being a friend as long as I can keep her at a distance. Whether that is possible, I really don't know.

Why not ask her to go grab a cup of coffee with you after work. 

Ask her directly what she wants.

Have a talk to define the limits of the relationship... .or at least understand them better.

Being proactive about these things is normally good.

And... .if she tells you one thing and does another (as it appears she has done several times already), doesn't that influence you one way or another about the future of the relationship?

In other words... .she says she wants to be friends... .and a couple days later pressures you for sex and emotional attachment... .then acts like it never happens... .then says don't tell anyone... then she tells anyone... .then you mention it to one person... .she finds out and "paints you black" because you can't be trusted... .(should I go on?)

If you don't know what you want... perhaps you can figure out what you don't want.  Go from there.  Many times that is more important than what you do want.

FF

I'm not sure I want that conversation though. I'm happy with how things are right now and if that is how it is going to stay - that's fine. My only concern is it not staying this way.

I think you're right on the way she's acting but I don't think it's all one sided and, to be fair, I don't know what I want so I know I have probably blown hot and cold towards her as well. I have no interest in telling anyone what happened between us (apart from on here or to very close friends she doesn't know) I am only annoyed that she has told people because she made it very clear she wanted to keep it between us. And she has never acted like what happened yesterday never happened. But I know I can't trust her with anything and I have known for a long time that is the case.

What I don't want is to have another serious relationship with her. Even without the BPD traits (and she has been diagnosed with a personality disorder, although I don't know for certain which it is - and she has refused to ever undergo treatment) I think the age difference and history between us would make it impossible for that to work. And that really is all that I know!

Being "f*ck buddies" even with an emotionally healthy partner always seems to come with strings, no matter how "casual" the agreement is.

With a BPD partner, the strings come with steroids.

Be careful.  red-flag  

 red-flag  

Why not?

Help me understand why you would NOT want to have a conversation with a person about your relationship,  especially because there have been hurt feelings before, there has been sex before, there almost was sex again... (I could go on)

Or... .perhaps you break everything off until you know what you want?... .or are ready for a conversation about the r/s.

I'm curious about your reluctance... .

Standing by.

FF

That is true. I don't think there's any way that could work without causing me a lot of trouble! The trouble is that our friendship has always been based around us being attracted to each other and there has always been a lot of flirting. I'm not sure we could ever remain friends for that long without something more happening.

Because I don't think her reaction would be a very positive one to it and I don't think it would do either of us any good. She would likely see it as me pressuring her into making a decision on what "we" are. And, from my perspective, I don't think there is anything positive to gain from us having that conversation when keeping things light and fun as they are at the moment is fine. The "problem" hasn't happened yet - and may not happen - so while that's the case, I don't think a conversation is required.

And, on a more negative point, I don't believe that I would trust anything she says!

So... .the purpose of having a relationship with a person where the above applies... .is?

How is this going to improve your life?

FF

I do like her as a person - she is fun to be around, she is nice to talk to and I enjoy spending time with her at work. I do enjoy talking to her outside of work sometimes although I wouldn't want to get too close to her again as I don't want to end up in the position we were previously.

When I say I wouldn't trust anything she says, I don't mean that in a nasty way but she could mean she just wants to be friends one minute and the next want to jump into bed with me. She could say she wants to be in a relationship one minute and the next want to run off with someone else. I don't think a conversation with someone where that applies to is really going to help. I think it is best to keep things light at the present moment as how it is now is fine - if it ends up being a problem for me or for her then we can talk about it.

In terms of how it will improve my life - I enjoy us spending time together at work. I like that and I don't want that to change. It is us spending time together outside of work where I have a problem.

Good... .so... .go have "fun" with her.  As long as it's "fun"... .you are good... right?

If there is a worry about time outside of work... .why not just skip it?

FF

It's hard to do that. For example, she rang me 6 times last night after we finished work and is likely to do the same tonight. It's very difficult to keep her at the distance I want. It seems to be either we see each other/talk all the time or we don't see each other/talk at all!

I think I'm playing with fire here and I'm sure I'm about to get burned soon enough.

So... .why play with fire anymore?

I mean... .you know what happens... right?

Listen... .I think you should read this article.  Then reflect some on how this article can simplify the calling issue.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Please share your impressions on the article.

FF

I find that an interesting article and that does make sense. I will try to implement boundaries with the phone calls - I think she enjoys trying to drag out the phone calls as much as possible and when we were together me ending the calls made up a lot of the arguments we had.

I am certainly not going to allow her to kick off and start arguments over the phone calls again - and at the moment she is on her best behaviour and doesn't want to start arguments over this, although I know that will change if we get any closer. And I am certainly not going to get caught up in her threatening suicide or anything like that over things like this again. I suppose now is the best time to put down boundaries like this if I am going to keep this friendship going.

I suppose I don't really want to fully back away from her but I do want to make sure I stay as detached from anything more than a friendship as possible whilst being respectful of her feelings and her as a person. I don't want to hurt her but I know that a serious relationship of any kind is impossible with her because I cannot put myself in the position of having to deal with her issues. I know I can't fix them and I know I can't allow my life to be taken over dealing with them - so I'd like to keep things as close to how they are now for as long as possible. I do like her as she is at the moment... .but I'm not willing to put myself through dealing with the other side of her again.

Morning Veryconfuseduk32,

"She is twenty... .I'm (you) are thirty-three"... .

My two (2) cents here,

She is not even old enough to buy a rum and coke, at least here in the "colonies" ... .so that said, and considering her age, what you see is what you're gonna get, she is not of a mature age yet imho,

You on the other hand, being thirty-three; are practically "over the hill"... .ha ha ha;... .just kidding!

She is a "pretty young thing", she has a couple of gondola's of "wild oats" still yet to sow, EVEN if you were married (), I'd be afraid of her letting ole' Jody boy in through the back door when you went off to work.

Look at the history, .I'd stay to play only, and I'd keep my little plastic heart under lock and key !

How does the saying go, "swim at you're own risk"... ."don't feed the alligators"... ."NOT responsible for broken hearts"... ."No life guard on duty"... .

Your cleared hot to "test drive"... .but remember, she did not keep up the payments last time you co-signed & went for a drive with her ?

... .have fun, live life, .but read the insert !

Best Regards, Red5

Some boys (10) played with fire in reality when I was 10 as well. There was an explosion and a big fire - I got burned third degree in my face - they didn't.

What I want to say, I got scars, inside and visible outside.
A BPD woman will also leave scars, they won't really disappear as long as you live, they only get better and less painful by time.

Think about the fire again, getting burned is fast, healing takes a lifetime.

Regarding "playing with fire," I would wager that there are a number of men here on this site who thought they could "get away with it."

Then, in a weak moment, something happened. Maybe unprotected sex, maybe "pinholes" in the condom, and oops, boom=relationship, marriage, family.

It's a question of choosing short term satisfactions or having long term goals.

My questions to anyone who wants to "play with fire" are: 1. Do you deserve better?  2. What is so compelling about this person that would drive you to possibly violate your own standards?  3. What in your family of origin might predispose you to choosing a partner who you think is inappropriate for you?

Thanks for your responses guys.

In terms of her age, I know, and that is why I don't want to move into anything serious. I made that mistake last time and I wouldn't want to do that again. While she appears as though she really wants a serious relationship (she has been living with the boyfriend after me since September/October time) I don't think it is even close to what she really wants. I think she really wants deep down to be single and have fun - at least judging by her actions anyway!

I agree that I don't want to get hurt again and probably shouldn't put myself in that position. I'm trying to keep myself detatched as much as I can do from an emotional standpoint. I don't feel too hurt from the previous relationship - I felt as though I healed from that fairly quickly once I understood how she had acted during our relationship. I go into it this time knowing how she does act in relationships and will not risk getting hurt by her again.

And you're probably right Cat - and I do not want to risk ending up in that position. She always tells me she doesn't like using condoms and I was stupid enough to agree to that last time (so lucky to get out without an STD or a pregnancy!) but I wouldn't again this time. I'm keeping condoms on me in case it does happen again - and if she doesn't want me to use them, we don't have sex (as difficult as that may be)!

In terms of the questions - 1) for a relationship, yes. I want to be with someone who is emotionally stable and someone who will be faithful. I don't think she is/can be either. So I don't want anything serious with her.

2) Honestly, her looks, her personality when she is in a good state and the sex. I think that's probably the same for anyone who has been involved with someone with BPD.

3) I think, honestly, it wasn't anything to do with my family of origin - I think in some ways it was to do with a lot of quite extreme bullying at school which led to me in relationships - both platonic and romantic - until I was 17/18. My first long term serious relationship was with a woman who displayed a lot of BPD traits and ended up pregnant when we had been together 3/4 months. I think I put up from that from the kind of adoration in the idealisation phase that I think I needed after a long time of being put down at school. While that bullying has left few scars on my day-to-day life, I think it has left me open to looking for someone to validate me in a romantic sense which leaves me susceptible to that kind of love bombing. That was a very, very turbulent relationship with huge highs and even worse lows which are still about today in dealing with her with my child and - I suppose - in some ways, the kind of drama I find in relationships with someone with BPD is a bit of a distraction from what I put up with, with her. She has never been diagnosed with anything other than depression but she displays a lot of the same kind of traits to the point where one of my friends have compared my friend to a younger version of my childs mum. I suppose, also, due to the bullying at school I do find it hard to allow myself to be vulnerable to someone and, with someone with BPD, the feeling of being "the strong one" in the relationship means that I don't have to allow myself to feel vulnerable... until, I suppose, it comes to an end.

So... .this is me "reflecting back" what I have heard... .read... .and want to make sure I have the story correct.

You were involved with a "BPDish" girl for your first big relationship.  She ended up pregnant and now you share a child together. 

Did birth control fail or did she talk you into unprotected sex?


Few more things below... let's stick with the "playing with fire" analogy.


So... you probably shouldn't play with fire again... .but... .?   red-flag

It appears you know the answer... yet... ?



If you understand that you want to be "detached"... .especially from an emotional standpoint... .then why have a relationship at all?  Isn't not having a relationship "really detached"?

So... .what is the "point" of having a relationship, without emotions involved?




Oh... I played with fire and got burned... .but it wasn't too bad and my wounds healed... .especially once I understand how matches work. 

So... .since i didn't get burned to bad before... .I will ?

I'll stop for now and make sure I'm not misunderstanding part of this.  Once we clarify my understanding... .I'll likely have a few more thoughts.


FF

She was on the contraceptive pill and it didn't work.


Well there's going to always be some emotions involved but I want to keep it as casual as possible. I do enjoy spending time with her when she is in a good mood, I just want to keep detached enough to not have to endure the bad side of her.


I see the point you are making and the reason I am conflicted is that I know it could be a lot worse this time. It's not easy to just walk away from the situation when I do want to spend time with her. Especially at the minute when I'm only getting the good side of her.

I don't want to belabor an old relationship too much... .but... .do you believe her?  Is it possible that she faithfully took the pills and they failed... .yes... that is possible.

Taking you at your word that she is/was "BPDish" and that for many BPDish people feelings create facts and manytimes "ends justify the means" (or it appears that way... .)

It is "more than possible" that there was an oops.  Perhaps it wasn't intentional, like she "plotted" to get you two pregnant, perhaps she did... perhaps she was careless and forgot to inform you of the risk. 

Anyway... .given this experience , I would like to understand your choice to have apparently unprotected sex with another BPDish gal.  What are your thoughts on that?


 
Perhaps it's an unintentional way that you write or communicate. 

But if someone wants to be "as detached as possible"... .then... .ending the relationship is "as detached as possible".  As casual as possible would indicate to me that you are polite when you see her... .but otherwise ignore her.

I don't think that's actually what you mean... .and it's obvious that is not what you want.


And... your analysis is accurate... .yet you still seem ready for another "recycle" (the terminology we use for what you appear to be doing).

Listen... .nobody on bpdfamily is going to tell you to get back with her... or tell you to "run".  Our terms of service preclude that.

If you want to give it another shot... .go for it. 

If you don't... .don't... .it's up to you to sort out your feelings of obligation  to be nice to her... .and get over that.

What it appears to me you want... .is the fun side... without the dark side.  It doesn't work that way... at least I'm not aware of any cases where it does.

"Radical acceptance" is a concept many of us wrestle with.  Basically... .really understand this is who she is... the way she is.

FF

What she said is she threw up and the pill doesn't work when you throw up. Which I was unaware of but she was fully aware of... .so, yes, kind of what you said.


I didn't know what BPD even was until after the second relationship ended. Without going into detail, I was doing as much as possible to ensure that there was no pregnancy... .but, yes, I think it's not the best decision I could have ever made.


What I mean, is to keep the friendship and to perhaps have a sexual relationship but nothing serious and without any expectations that it could ever go anywhere.


I accept who she is and I know that is not going to change. That is why I am leaning towards the decision of enjoying what we have while it is fun but being prepared to walk away to an extent if the dark side comes out. I don't want to spend my life with someone like that but I do value the friendship we have.

How is parenting going with your first "BPDish" ex?

Am I correct in assuming that it is going well... .something you are looking to replicate with another person... .or are at least open to the possibility of doing it again?

FF

It's not the best situation and I'm not looking to replicate it. Which is why I am going to be as careful as possible to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Details are ok... this is an anonymous board.  

Since you were "doing as much as possible" to make sure there was no pregnancy... .am I correct in assuming you were wearing a condom... perhaps using a spermicide as well?  Perhaps I misread some of your earlier posts

FF

As much as possible without using protection as she told me she "didn't like it". Now, there's no chance whatsoever I will be having sex with her without a condom. A pregnancy is something I don't want to happen with anyone at this point in my life, regardless of whether they're emotionally stable or not.

Well, you may be able to have sex with her and "keep it casual", but from a woman's perspective, I think it's unlikely that she won't start becoming "bonded" to you if this becomes an habitual pattern. And people with BPD can express their "bonds" quite differently than healthy normal people: e.g. suicide threats, which you've already experienced.

I would suggest you learn about oxytocin, a hormone that is released during orgasm, and even during hugging. It causes "attachment" and is particularly present in the first six months of romantic relationships, i.e. "the honeymoon phase."  https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/275795.php

It is also present during childbirth and breastfeeding and it facilitates a bond between mother and newborn baby and can create social bonds in groups.

Now you may think you can get away with what author Erica Jong entitled "the zipless f*ck" but the reality is that having sex releases this hormone and establishes a bond between people. Perhaps it can be an ephemeral bond for you, but perhaps it wouldn't be for her. Michael Douglas's character in Fatal Attraction believed he could have consequence-free sex with Glen Close's character, having no idea that she would turn into a psycho bunny boiler.

I'm certainly not saying that she might do anything that extreme, but you've already experienced her suicide ideations. Please think very clearly about what you are entering into. For you to contemplate returning to any sort of relationship with her after what you've already experienced indicates to me that the sex must have been really memorable.   *)

So... no pregnancy is important to you, especially since you have been there before.

Why not skip the sex?  Or the part of sexual activity that can lead to pregnancy?  


Hey... listen.  This is an anonymous board, we are here to help you "choose a path" and to sort out conflicted feelings that you have... .feelings you have for very obvious reasons.

Many times people with very obvious reasons to have conflicted feelings also have "reasons" (for being conflicted and confused) that are not so obvious to them.   Many times we can help people "see" that and they are able to reflect on why they "do that" and many times they will elect to change that behavior... and vastly improve their life.

Behavior change in our-self is usually most successful because you don't have to convince anyone else, once you "see" it and you "want" to change... the only person you have to contend with is you.

So... .here is what I see... .and I'm hoping you can reflect on this and fill in some blanks.

I suspect the way you talk to (I know... .you are really writing) us is much the same way you talk to yourself.  It's likely much the same way you "convince" yourself that (fill in the blank) is ok.

So... .grab something cool to drink, take some time to read this entire post a few times... .and watch for your "communication style" of saying you are doing "everything possible" to avoid (something disastrous)... .then there is the implicit thought that since I'm doing everything possible to avoid disaster... I'm ok to proceed.

Yet... .the least amount of probing reveals "everything possible" means everything except (this) and (that) and a bunch of other things commonly accepted to prevent (whatever the disastrous thing is).

You've been burned by this BPDish thing a few times in your life and what concerns me is I see very little apparent change in your life and your way of "dealing with" BPDish people that is "commonly accepted" to be effective in "dealing with" BPDish people.  

I get it... .this is fresh for you... and obviously confusing.

Can you spend some time reading this thread a few times... with an eye towards what I have described here... and then share your thoughts?

FF

That's certainly my concern, I do like her and wouldn't want to hurt her by leading her to think it would be something more. She did hurt me in a big way last time, especially as she was sleeping with other people... .although I suppose from her perspective she felt as though she loved/was in love with all of the people she was sleeping with. It wasn't ever just sex.

I know I can't do it without having some feelings for her. I just know there's a limit as to how far I can allow those feelings to go. I can't get caught up as I did before.


I have been, which is why I'm struggling so much with what I should do. I don't want to cut off contact with her and I don't want to rule anything out - other than a full-blown serious relationship. But I know that the steps our relationship took before mirrored both of the other relationships I've seen her in since so I know it will go that way if I get too close.


Haha... .yes, exactly. It would have been better if I'd gone back and it was nowhere near as good as I remembered. Unfortunately it was even better... .which makes it impossible not to want to go back again!

This is really my point... .it's obvious to me that you are not thinking clearly, or if you are... .you are not communicating that clearly.

BPDish relationships lend themselves to us "nons" not thinking clearly.  

(prude alert... move along if you are prudish)  Guys that have gotten laid really hard or really "good"... .also tend to have a hard time thinking clearly.  You know the joke amongst guys... ."dude... .which "brain" are you thinking with... ?"  (we've all been there).

So... .let's get to it.  Is she your "top" sexual partner?  Most enjoyable?  Is that what you want to get back to?

FF

She's amazing in bed and we're very compatible in that way. There was another girl I have been dating recently and the spark wasn't there in the way it is with my BPDex. I know there are a lot of reasons why that may be the case - especially with the history between us.


I do want to continue that but I know that the more often that happens the closer we will get and the bigger the risk that it blows up in a very dramatic fashion.

So... .here is a big picture question.

Why not spend your time and energy finding a relationship where "she is great in bed" AND... ."there is now downside."

Nothing wrong with wanting a relationship with "spark" (physically and emotionally).  I think you were right to move on from relationships were that was missing (assuming you gave it time to develop or not)

What I simply don't understand... .is a decision to spend time and effort on a relationship that "burned you".  Especially... .especially... .when you have been burned before in previous relationships with similar dynamics.

Have you had a relationship where there was spark... .AND... there was healthy emotional regulation, respect, consistent kindness and all that?

FF

I'm not sure there's ever such a thing as "no downside" even with emotionally healthy people. But I see your point. I don't particularly have the time to spend too much time looking for/investing in any relationship at present (I have a full time job, a child, some hobbies I focus a lot of time on and uni work) in many ways I think that's why a sexual relationship with this person which is fairly casual is attractive to me.


I agree, although I see her every day at work and that is where I generally spend time and talk to her. It's impossible to completely ignore her and I do enjoy the time we spend together.


Yes, I was with someone between 2010-2015 which was like this but I think I was too hurt from my previous relationship that I probably wasn't ready for it (trust issues, etc that came from my previous relationship). We are still friends and we have spoke about getting back together in the past but I don't know if it could really work considering the way things went when we were together. It didn't end on terrible terms, but I wasn't the person I wanted to be in that relationship and I don't think she was either.

This is HUGE!

Who do you want to be?  That is a very important... perhaps THE most important question of all.  Combine that with a reflective... .realistic... .look at who you are now... .and you will find a lot to work with

I am a big believer that relationships are part of the way we mature.  I'm 48 years old, yet I still strive to add/improve "relationship skills" and other skills.  Certainly I like who I am, yet I also want to be better... .and have a "list" of things I want to work improve.

I'm interested in hearing about who you are and who you want to be... .   |iiii

FF

OK, you've got a lot on your plate. You're busy. You don't have time to get fully invested in a sexual/emotional relationship with a healthy woman. Got it.

So, instead, you're going to boink this crazy woman (crazy by definition because she's already threatened suicide) and get your physical needs met without having to have an emotional relationship. Got it.

Can you be assured that you won't be dealing with suicide threats in the future? Do you know that she won't get emotionally attached to you and demand more? What would you say if one of your friends were telling you this?

My thought is why don't you just enjoy casual flirting with this woman and find an attractive and skillful prostitute? In the end, I think the cost would be less.

I'm not sure I've done enough reflection to be close to knowing exactly. I really do need to take some time to do that.


That doesn't make me sound great! But yeah, that is about right.


No, and that does scare me.


No, and I suppose I can't be sure that I won't get emotionally attached as well.


Probably to run a mile... .but I suppose we all feel different when we're in this kind of situation.


Haha... .that's an interesting suggestion haha. If there was a such thing as prostitutes who did all of the flirting, playing hard to get and all of that build up then I'd be interested! I think - as great as the sex with her is - that the whole build up and anticipation and then it happening is what made it so amazing.

Afternoon "V",

(Caveat) This is meant to be funny !

I have read many times, in regards to BPD behaviors in women... .that during the ideation phase, the "love bombing"... .that what is really occurring, is really a grand and complicated operation to "hook" you, the "non", it has been said (written) that the pw/BPD is indeed "mirroring YOU" during said "ideation phase"!

Like some kind of "Stepford Wives Tale"... .with a small portion of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" ,

... .ie, the pw/BPD is giving you exactly what you want, as in you're chasing and falling for yourself (?) !... .not really what they; the pw/BPD feel or want, but what you require to be able to identify with her as a somewhat "healthy?" dating realtionship, .or said a better way, and extremely desirable (sex pot) relationship.

You are her "supply", .maybe think black widow  !

And then... .once she's hooked you real good, hook set, and got you outa your nice warm water world of hooker night sexual fantasies ... .landed you, and you are now flopping round in her shrimp boat, she is really going to have her way with you, mask comes off, other shoe drops, and then you the hapless happy freshly de-boned "non" are now going to get the "real" treatment... .and I ain't talking about hotty totty sex, and happy happy boom boom forevermore... .no, I'm talking about head games, and not the head you're thinking with , .no, the other one !

... .something to think about... .is it all "fake" (?), is she really putting out what you think you are getting... .or it is all a parlor trick... .

Crazy stuff!

Be careful "V" !

And remember, "read the insert"... .

Red5

There is such a service. The price will be commensurate with the status, elegance, and education you specify and the title of the service provider would be "escort" rather than "prostitute". Make sure you keep that bit in mind.