BPDFamily.com

Hi all,

Recently I posted a thread about my partner being in a prolonged state of dysregulation/dissociation:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=324989.0

At last pass, I was giving him space because he was (again) threatening to "kick me out" and blaming me for all manner of things that were not related to reality based events. I was trying to stay out of the house more, and work longer hours or hang out with colleagues after work to avoid going home. About a week or two ago I went numb and just stopped responding to his bizarre behavior because I'm utterly shell shocked by it all, and have almost become catatonic, as many of his behaviors have been hinging on what appears to be schizoid/paranoid/psychotic. He has been alternating between shunning me, taunting me, insulting me, accusing me of really strange things, and being relatively pleasant, and almost normal.  He will cycle though these phases multiple times in a day.

Yesterday, after a full day of silent treatment, he sent an email to all of my email addresses, personal, professional, and my actual work email. It said only my name with a question mark. I felt a sharp stab of fear and ignored it and deleted it on every account. Because I feared a barrage of insults, as that is his MO a lot of the time. To email me long hate filled letters.

I finally wrote him a very unemotional and brief letter (not via email - I printed it to take home to him) stating that if he really wishes to separate, then we need to have brief cooling off period (thankfully he travels to the corporate office to work next week, so I'll have some time to myself) then discuss the contingency plan calmly and move forward with it. I also reminded him that since this was his wish, he should do the legwork.

Initially he refused to read or touch the letter. Then threatened to rip it up and throw it in the trash without reading it. Eventually he asked me to read it to him. He again balked at the idea of having to actually participate in my relocation, or any kind of cooling off period. It was almost as if he realized this could be done civilly, but would not consent to that. Still he insisted I should "just leave". That's not even logistically possible. Obviously, this takes time and effort - to relocate.

He then began to talk. And talk. And talk. And talk.

Man, did I use the tools. I sat quietly. I nodded. I asked a few clarification questions, "You feel as if I don't love and respect you?"

He went on for a full 90 minutes barely taking a breath. I said about five validating words. I couldn't get anything else in. His monologue was all over the map. Anything from insults and accusations, to blaming me for everything that has ever gone wrong in his life, to reminiscing about how wonderful our relationship was, to saying that our relationship was hell on earth, to talking candidly about how he has never had such amazing intimate relations with a woman and he had eyes only for me, and couldn't even think about wanting to be with anyone else (oddly, that really does seem to be true) to saying that he knows I will have him thrown in jail, to telling me that he firmly believes that I am a CIA agent here to conduct psychological experiments on him, and soon I will reveal that I have a different name and different identity, and I never loved him, and this is all an assignment by the US government. He said he's expecting any moment for me to show my CIA badge, kiss him on the cheek, and tell him goodbye, and that all of this was never real. (Then give him a small sum of money for his suffering, of course.) 

I felt like somebody had poured a pitcher of ice water down my spine, it was... .chilling. He rounded out by lamenting about how his whole family and his best friend hate him because of me. (They don't.) Eventually when he saw I wasn't having the emotional response he was expecting, he called me a remorseless psychopath.

Having had enough, I told him that I was sorry he felt this way, and I understood how upsetting it all must be. I did a little SET and the "T" part was that the quality of his interpersonal relationships with friends and family are between him and them, and I will absolutely not take responsibility for this accusation. He said "I think that's enough for tonight!"

So I said, "Ok, goodnight" and walked away and went into another room to read.

He came in the room twice and once tried to act normal making small talk about random things. I politely nodded. He came in a second time to give me a long, impassioned speech about how he knows that when I leave I will not be his friend anymore, but he wants me to be, and why was I still friends with all my exes but would not be his friend, and how unfair that was. I looked him square in the eye, and listened, but said nothing. Absolutely nothing. I had no idea what TO say! He went full circle with the whole scenario in his own head. He came up with the accusation, argument, and conclusion all on his own. After that, he finally left it alone for the night.

This morning I awoke to find that he had set up the coffee maker for me, and put my favorite coffee cup out on the counter. This is the first act of generosity or human kindness I have seen from him in a while. He had moved the coffee maker to the edge of the counter for me because that's what I usually do. All I had to do was hit the button on the machine.

I had my morning coffee and did the same for him, and left for work before he got up.

I left the coffee maker in the back against the wall, and left the filter compartment open though, making him have to do an extra step. Otherwise same set-up. "When they pull, pull back, but a little less."  *)

Normally I consider myself pretty astute and able to "figure things out" but this is really beyond the realm of anything I have ever seen. I'm realizing that while he often says he's "dumb" compared to me, and my intelligence intimidates him... .I don't believe that at all. He isn't even a native English speaker, but he can articulate the most amazing flights of mental fancy in such brilliant English that the clarity with which he articulates his madness scares me. And I don't scare easily.

Still, I am holding onto a thread of hope that he will return to sanity. I know that recent painful therapy sessions and some other family related events have triggered him as well as our relationship. I am finding that not responding is kind of helping, but I'm at a loss as to what to do next. The behavior is so inconsistent, I don't even know what I'm responding to anymore. Another poster said earlier "Sometimes they go so far down the rabbit hole, they don't know how to come back out." I think that may be the case here.

Hi BD,

Wow. That was a pretty stunning read. I don't know what to make of the really wild accusations either. I heard some recently and I just thought, "Huh? Where are you getting this?" He thought I must be feeding information about him to someone else to get him fired from his new job. But once he's calm again he's happy as a clam in my case. I am glad in a way, I don't experience some of the daily barrage many do, I can't believe I am glad for any of this, but I get the extremes. It is either all good or all bad.

I applaud for letting him speak for so long and using the tools. It sounds he had a real backlog he needed to get out. My SO actually lets me go on at times and listens. I just wish he could learn not to interrupt me at other times, would make life so much easier if he didn't attack and could patiently wait. Well, a gal can dream!  

So anyway, is he taking any kind of medication? Do you think he needs any?

with compassion, pearl.

Hi pearl!

Yeah, it was surreal, but not the first time he's shown signs of paranoia. I'm sorry you have also had to suffer through similar. Has your husband been paranoid, and thinking really bizarre things like that? I'd almost be inclined to think my BF is joking... .but no. 

Sometimes he is ok with letting me prattle on a bit, too, but he normally also interrupts and argues, and so it ends up causing more problems. I've learned that "TMI" doesn't go over too well. ;-)

He's not taking any medications, and I'm not really sure what he might need. I also suspect he wouldn't consent to it. A T tried to put him on anti-depressants many years ago, but he stopped taking them because he couldn't make it through that initial "fog" phase. 

He started CBT on Monday - no word of how it went. I came home to find him in fetal position on the sofa looking really miserable. Once he saw I was home he went into the basement without a word. I am reluctant to ask right now, since he's so dysregulated at this time.

The 90 minute rant and my total silence was a huge feat for me. I think I'm just too burnt out and exhausted to even protest anymore. Which might be a good thing. 

Hi BasementDweller,

First I hope you are giving yourself a lot of credit for sitting through that and handling it well.  Really well.

My Ex experienced two psychotic breaks during our relationship that I am absolutely sure of.   One that I am kinda of the fence about.    It might have been psychosis, might not have been.

Either way watching some one I knew and cared about become a different person was wicked scary.   I was actually a little more fortunate than most because my Ex knew she could become psychotic and a rudimentary emergency plan in place.

Does your partner have a diagnosis?    and do you have a emergency plan?   rudimentary or not?

'ducks

Hi, babyducks!

He does have a BPD diagnosis. Nothing else really, that I'm aware of, though I suspect there could be bipolar elements in there, because he can get rather manic/hyper/overproductive, and also get really low for extended periods.

I'm struggling with the psychotic/paranoid behavior because I don't know if anyone else has ever seen him go that off the rails. A lot of people see him as a bit "off" - but I'm not sure of this level of paranoia has presented itself to others. I wonder if I trigger it, and that makes me feel really bad. Yesterday when I let him rant and said very little, he came around to something a little more normal. Not really "good" but not as paranoid as that.

Not sure what I'll walk into today. Sometimes him being alone with his thoughts is disastrous. Other times... .not so much. It's really unpredictable.

What did you do when your partner acted psychotic? How long did it take her to return to some kind of baseline?

Hi BD,

my partner was diagnosed Bipolar 1 comorbid with BPD.    She was aware that mania was a problem, complete with delusions and hallucinations.     Since she had a diagnosis and a medical support team we had a rough understanding that in the event of uncontrolled mania I would take steps to hospitalize her.

I can't really say it worked so well in practice.     the last episode she had was during the winter, a horrid blizzard was raging and she went outside to drive the car away in a short sleeve shirt.   there was like 20 inches of snow down and temperatures below zero.   I didn't make the call.    I probably should have.   I think I'll second guess that for a long time.  everyone ended up safe but it was dicey for a while.


does he have a health care proxy who can make medical decisions for him?   have you every thought through making an emergency call for a psychiatriac event?    do you have permission to contact his therapy providers?


The last two times I did very little.   I had become normalized to the events.   and like you I was pretty freaking numb and burnt out.   unfortunately she never did return to baseline with me.  it's one of the reasons our relationship ended.


do you have some one in the mental health field you can brain storm this with?   a therapist?   I am concerned about you trying to go this alone.   some times it's helpful to identify decision making paths if there is a danger of injury to your partner or some one else.

'ducks

That sounds terrifying with her driving off in the snow like that. My partner has done similar as well.

I really do need/want to see a counselor as well, but my job is so demanding and time consuming, it’s really hard to find the opportunity. I’ll have to see what I can sort out. I feel like I’m well past insane now myself.

Hi BD,
I'm sorry for all you're going through. You seem to have incredible character and strength. I know it is tiring but good job on not making things worse and getting through that 90 mins.
My husband has had a few of these episodes and I am sometimes unsure if during his "normal" he hides his delusions. He sometimes puts on a good front and is so intelligent, he can have me spinning.

My heart goes out to you .

I am going to nudge you in this direction.    nudge.   nudge.   you are dealing with an awful lot of stress.    you need an advocate.   some one educated who can support you.   someone whose entire job it is to look out for you and help you make decisions.

Nudge accepted. :-) Thank you for the kindness. I will absolutely look into this. I know I need to. It's just so hard when my job is my means of survival and demands so much time and energy.

But yeah. I know I have a self-care deficit right now.

Oof. I feel for you, I've been through several psychotic episodes with my gfBPD who is bipolar. The police picked her up walking down the street naked once (I was out of town at the time.) Another time, I had to call the ambulance to come get her. It's exhausting and terrifying.

Her psychotic episodes usually result in hospitalization, voluntary or forced, she doesn't tend to get better on her own. But then, that would require getting the right sleep and eating properly and taking her antipsychotics and avoiding drugs and alcohol. During manic/psychotic episodes, she wants to stay up not eat and pop Adderall.

Perhaps he needs an antipsychotic. Do you feel like your husband is a danger to himself or others? Is his therapist aware of this behavior? Is there anybody else in your support system who can spend some time with your husband, just kind of a reality check? I like to check in with her support system--her bother and mom, housemates, etc., when I think she's going off the rails, so I'm not lone judge, jury and executioner.

Keep us posted please.     

What a day? I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I wish now that I had taken the time to let her rant and vent without reacting. I guess we can only do what we know to do until we know better. You knew better and kept your wits about you and it may have paid off. I will pray for you both and I hope you get to have some peace for a few days/weeks so you can practice self-care. I'm seeing, through you and others, the patience and love required to keep a relationship with a BPD partner. My wife doesn't even want me around but if she changes her mind... .I will have to set major boundaries and she will need to seek therapy.

Good luck to you. You have a huge heart.

Thank you ladyItone and mylovewBPD. I'm sorry to hear about what you both have been going through as well.

I am not sure if he needs an anti-psychotic. It's quite possible, but I definitely do not think he would consent to taking any meds. As far as a support system, that's doesn't really exist in the country and culture I am currently living in. Even the health care system and the legal system really have no proactive approach to... .anything. They avoid having to "do anything" like the plague.

His family hides their head in the sand. People don't talk to each other here. Any sort of uncomfortable topics are taboo. People just "disappear" if they are approached even civilly and with diplomacy about anything they don't want to acknowledge. I learned very quickly that reaching out to anyone at all, even asking politely for help is seen as an act of obtrusive aggression, and gets you marginalized, fast. There's a sickness of the soul in this society, some sort of horrendous "avoidance disease" and I can't really wrap my head around it. A complete avoidance of the truth.  He and I have no mutual friends in common as I have become pretty isolated in this relationship, and being in a foreign country. Unfortunately, I am completely alone in this. I have a friend or two that I can talk to when I need support in general (other expats, of course) but nobody that REALLY knows what goes on in our house or is in any position to do much.

That's why this board is such a godsend.

Hey BD,

Thanks for your nice reply and for asking! :)

It's been odd. He's twice accused me of trying to poison him, and once accused me of trying to share information about him with his new job to get him fired. None of these things is even remotely true. When I brought up what he said about trying to poison him in front of another person, a doctor, he said he didn't mean it. Which isn't exactly a nice alternative to paranoia if you get my drift.  I preferred to think it was paranoia... .It was definitely odd and hurtful.

I think he just likes to throw a lot of garbage at the wall and see what sticks. He can get a really scary look on his face ("crazed", i am not physically afraid of him) and he will say anything he can possibly cobble together to hurt me when he is being extreme. On the other hand he also extremely LOVES me which I don't feel so great about either. He will also often say "he is crazy" or "crazy at times" and he "does not understand" himself. I wish we could get a clear diagnosis, but I doubt that will happen. They just gave him two anti-depressants and we've had to go from there. Healthcare is expensive here so getting all the needed help is out of reach.

I'm in a similar expat situation! "No one really knows what goes on or is in any position to do much". Sigh.

wishing you peace! pearl. :)

Oh, pearl. :-(

I'm getting a bit teary reading what you wrote because I can totally empathize with that. I have also been accused of trying to poison him. He used to love my cooking, brag about it to everyone, but now he will not accept it, because he thinks I am "up to something". He has expressed that he fears I will poison his food, or stab him in his sleep. All I can do is keep my distance. It's so sad. The irony is I am the one person left standing that still looks out for his well being. Everyone else is kind of over it. Though my support is in a very subtle and non-engaged way now. No rescuing. I haven't had the accusations of sabotaging his job, yet... .but he has accused me of filing false police reports behind his back, or hiring lawyers to "destroy him". I barely have time to wash my hair or eat these days, much less start an in depth, behind the scenes, espionage campaign to destroy someone with lawyers and cops, and the CIA. (See above.)

I know the scary/crazy look. I don't know what your husband looks like in that mode, but mine is sort of manic and wide-eyed with a weird half smile, and a look of something like triumph in his eyes. Almost like the "Ah-HA!" moment. Where the lightbulb comes on.  :thought: Because he thinks he has finally cracked the code, and figured out my sinister motive. To destroy him. With cops and lawyers and poison and knives and the CIA. The more I think about it, the more disturbing it gets. I'd have to be a pretty sh!tty assassin to have all those resources at my disposal and have him still be around to rage at me every day.

The expat thing is rough. You don't get the same level of support and understanding as you would in your own country. No matter how "tolerant" a society is - foreigners are always given a little less trust. We truly are on our own. Even the women's shelters stick their head in the sand. Unless you're a native and your partner is a foreigner. The other way around... .nope.

Throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. Yes, I think that's what is happening here. I'm praying it's a massive extinction burst/panic response that will lead to a period of re-regulation when nothing actually sticks. He has to burn out eventually and just want to give it a rest. I hope.

Peace back at ya! How are things today?

Dear BD

I'm so sorry that things are still going so badly. I have to applaud your handling of it though - you're doing an awesome job!

I mentioned in your previous thread that this sounds like psychosis. PwBPD do experience dissociation and psychotic breaks but the psychosis and paranoia you're describing make me think you're dealing with something more; possibly BPD comorbid with bipolar. In which case, antipsychotics would be appropriate.

My first thought reading your description of the 90 minute rant was that you need to get him help. That someone (professional) needs to know about this and that is too big to handle on your own.

But then I thought: what would I do? I live on a small island in SE Asia with virtually no mental health facilities. I've seen the one mental hospital here, with its beds with leather straps and filthy dormitories, and there's no way I would ever let anyone I love be in that situation! So I empathise with you having few options.

I wish you had videoed that rant. Is it possible to make an appointment with his therapist and describe what is happening? I know because of patient confidentiality his therapist can't discuss him with you, but he/she needs to know the severity of his condition (if only to avoid any more trauma in their sessions at the moment).

I can hear how much you love him and how hard you are working to return things to baseline - hoping that he does stabilise soon x

Your p appears slightly manic a very dangerous time.
Rapid back and forthing can explode, batten down hatches for possible bad breakup, good luck.

SlyQQ, thank you for that warning. I could handle a break-up - but this... .I don't even know what the heck I am dealing with.   I'm indeed in brace position.

SunandMoon - thank you for that. I did once contact his T (I think he has only met her once so far, if he even went that day) I gave her some background on what has been going on. She confirmed that she received the mail and thanked me but of course said she can't discuss his treatment. I fully understand that.

I am just now beginning to get that he may have BPD/Bipolar combined. He does have manic episodes, they aren't the kind that we often picture with reckless sex sprees, wild spending, compulsive gambling or outlandish public behavior. Maybe it's a hypomanic episode because he tends to just get extremely productive or does extremely ambitious projects, quite spontaneously. An example is when he abruptly started ripping up the wood flooring in the middle of breakfast and totally re-floored the whole house (beautifully, I might add) in three days - with zero assistance. I was impressed but shocked. He never mentioned wanting to change the flooring.

He's an extremely talented handcrafter/woodworker, and during this current extended episode, he made six extremely complex and absolutely stunning hand-made wood chopping boards. Using a variety of wood species, and sanded and oiled to perfection. They are truly impressive. He did this in just a couple of days, and declared he would sell them. (They totally would sell too.) He piled them up in a stack on the living room floor and there they have sat for weeks.

I think perhaps an anti-psychotic or mood stabilizing drug would help... .but I can't see him consenting to that. I hope his therapist suggests it. If I suggested it, he'd probably feel shamed or angry and see it as a personal attack. He used to listen respectfully when our old T would talk to him about his unhealthy behaviors. With me he responds with anger or hurt. So it's more likely to work if she talks to him.

It's hard to say if he does continue to see her, if she will truly see his range of symptoms. Our old T saw it because I was present and my presence triggers him. If I'm not there, he may be able to contain a lot of it. Maybe. I would consider writing her again, but I fear crossing the line where she thinks I am trying to micromanage him, steer his treatment, or worse - that I'm lying, or I'm the bad guy and he's a victim of his "crazy" partner who keeps badgering the therapist.

We have decent enough hospitals here in this country but the system sucks, they are strapped and short staffed, and the mentality of this culture is one of major avoidance and inaction.

A couple of years ago, a friend's girlfriend tried to commit suicide by taking a massive amount of pills and washing it down with a bottle of vodka. She took very strong tranquilizers, totally enough to fall into a deep sleep and respiratory arrest.  He found her unconscious in the bed with a respiratory rate of 5. He called an ambulance, and they took over an hour to arrive. He had to give her mouth to mouth and keep trying to shake her awake. He wasn't able to rouse her. They took her to a lock-down psych ward at the city's largest hospital and left her on a stretcher in a hallway with no IV, NO OXYGEN, and no assessment by any kind of doctor or nurse. (That anyone is aware of.) She didn't even have a pulse oximeter on her that would alarm if she stopped breathing, or her oxygen levels dropped. She actually woke up on her own about 5 hours later, dressed herself, and stumbled out of there and down four flights of stairs via the emergency fire exit, and hailed a cab and went home. Nobody even noticed, and she surprised her boyfriend by pounding on the door to be let in.

About 6 hours later, the cops showed up at their house to take her back to the psych ward. She got there, talked to a doctor and a nurse and explained that she didn't need to be there, and that it was all a mistake, that her boyfriend had exaggerated the situation. Yet she HAD arrived via ambulance the evening before, not really making any respiratory effort, and completely unarousable. They let her go home. Before leaving she asked them if anyone had examined her or treated her "alleged overdose" the night before, or if she had received any kind of medical care at all, besides being left in a hallway on a stretcher for hours on end. They said, "I don't think so. It was a busy night." She ended up totally mentally recovering, is fine to this day, and talks about the incident with embarrassment - and says that it's too much of a hassle to be sick in this country because help doesn't exist.

This is a wealthy first-world country... .but the mentality here is severely unhealthy. I really do want him to be able to get some help... .but it's extremely difficult here, because of the avoidance that is so deeply embedded in the local culture.

My last hope is that he exhausts himself. Maybe my calm refusal to get sucked in this time will have some effect.

Today he peeked in the bedroom to see if I was there before he left for work. Usually I leave before him, but today I slept in a bit. At the end of each month I typically transfer my half of the mortgage, household costs, etc to his bank account, as we split everything 50/50. Oddly, he only kept 40% of it, and transferred the rest back to me with a message saying "X amount is enough for this month."  (?) Fearing a manipulation he could use against me later, like saying I wasn't covering my share of expenses, was trying to take his money etc., I sent the amount back. He sent it back again with a note "Please stop, X amount is enough."

I sent it back again, saying "I pay my share of expenses each month."

He sent it back again. "Please stop!"

I sent it back one more time, with the message "We can do this all day. If you transfer it back again, I will withdraw the cash and leave it in the basement for you."

He accepted the payment. I am aware that maybe I should have just let it go, but I will not NOT pay my share of the bills only to be told later on that I was irresponsible, or not upholding my end of expenses. And What the heck was with the 40%? At any rate, he could have sent the money back one last time, and let me withdraw the cash and just left it alone and not spent it. I don't think it was about that. It was a weird test of some kind. Ah well. Not much I can do except stand my ground and hope he burns out.

Hi BasementDweller,

a couple of random thoughts.    manic episodes or hypomania can exist in many different forms.  my ex didn't wildly spend or gamble or have reckless sex.   she did once cry for almost 30 straight hours.   she also had rapid fire bullet like speech, as if she couldn't get the words out fast enough.   She was on medication and compliant with it.    She found she liked it.  the medication I mean.  However she still struggled with hypomania brought on by sleep disruptions, mostly.

I would suggest you google "bipolar kindling", not to be scary but so you can be educated.

and now back to you getting some addition support in your circumstances.    *still nudging*

it sounds like maybe you work for a major corporation?   Often they have Employee Assistance Departments or family life support departments buried in the recesses of Human Resources.   anything like that where you work?  worth a call?


and I will also toss out... .there are online support therapy websites.   Yeah you have to pay for them but I haven't found them to be very expensive.    I use one.   and have had very good results with it.    I will say it took me two therapists to find a good fit but that happens in real life.    I commuincate to my therapist daily through a chat room or skype and we've made great progress.    maybe worth a look?

while he is in this difficult phase, how about continuing to boost yourself up?  you are going to need the extra resources.

'ducks

Hi, babyducks!

I have never even heard of bipolar kindling, but there seems to be something to that theory! I can at least envision that he probably is getting himself worked into a frenzy that he can't come out of - perhaps exacerbating his own stress somehow, or re-igniting it when he's starting to calm down.

I'm sorry that your ex went through all that and you had to experience it - It's really scary when they come unglued like this. :-(

Can you please send me a link to the online counseling services? This would likely work better for me, because of my work schedule. I would rather not go through the EAP here, because I really don't want anyone associated with my job to know about this. There is also a health service here where you can do online counseling. It costs about 25 dollars per session, so that's not too bad. I'm not sure how good they are, or if the language nuances will make it difficult. If you can recommend a site that you like that has English speaking counselors, I would look into that.

Thank you! 

My partner has gone off to run an errand to the hardware store, and I decided to go have a look in the basement room where he has been sleeping - for weeks now. I just had a bad feeling. Or, well, several. Keeping in mind this is a man with meticulous hygiene and "house pride". We have always kept up a neat and tidy household with a well stocked fridge, clean sheets on the beds, clean floors, etc,. When we work well together, we're a great team. His BPD mom is, as he says, "a cleaning nazi" and he picked up a lot of that. He changes the bed sheets weekly like clockwork.

Last week he came to remind me to change the bed sheets on what has always been our shared bed. I did.

Today, I went into his "lair" and it was filthy. The bed sheet has not been changed in nearly a month and is visibly soiled. The bed is an unmade mess. The air smells dank in there and the floor is filthy. The shades are drawn, the room is dark and his dirty clothes are thrown all over the place. There are empty beer bottles that he is attempting to hide in a backpack. (?) He has gone and bought socks and underwear that are still in the shopping bag and he's just taking them out of there, and I guess wearing them and maybe putting them in the dirty laundry. I don't know. There's also other random things in the bag like some printer paper and a drill bit, but still unopened.

Since he has been dysregulating, I haven't had much of an appetite, but the few meals I have had, I have away from home - just to be somewhere else. We used to cook really wonderful meals together. It was our ritual, especially on the weekends. But this whole situation has made me less interested in the culinary arts which have always been a great passion of mine. He has not bought groceries for himself for about two to three weeks. What he has eaten has been a take-out pizza or two, or boiled pasta, or cold stuff out of cans. This guy, like me, is an excellent cook and really savors good ingredients. I don't recognize this sad shell of a man who is living in squalor in a basement, completely neglecting himself.

There has to be something else happening here besides BPD. This seems like bi-polar depression... .or something. I don't know. I have never seen him like this for this long. I cried a little when I saw that mess downstairs. I can't rescue though. That won't help at all. It breaks my heart.

Has anyone else's partner gone into a prolonged depression like this?

Hi Basement Dweller,

well now I see where your screen name comes from.

my experience was that once this level of poor reality testing was reached, the flash over into serious problems was so quick, so unpredictable that it happened in minutes.

reality testing is the internal function that basically tells a person what's real and what's not.  my EX has poor reality testing skills.    she couldn't fact check her thoughts.   

from what you are describing,  I think you are right.   this is something other than BPD.   it's probably something that a professional would need to figure out.

No you can't rescue.    You can take steps to put yourself in the best possible position for a reasonable outcome.    do you have important papers, spare keys, extra money stored away from the house?   do you have a place where you can retreat too for a couple of days if you need a break?   my Ex and I kept a house in the country and I kept a condo in the city that was just mine.   I don't mind telling you that condo in the city probably saved my sanity.



Good self care BD.    work at eating, sleeping and taking small relaxing breaks each and every day.     work at it like it was your job.     put yourself first.   

'ducks

Hi, babyducks!

Actually, the screen name, while more appropriate for him these days actually came from the fact that I used to go down there to read or get on the computer when he was raging at me. But now he has taken over the space. 

I'm trying to work on the self-care. I signed up for online counseling with a LMHC who specializes in BPD, PTSD, anxiety, etc... .I haven't had a session with her, but I've done the pre-treatment questionnaire.

I worked in my garden a bit today and bought some flowers to put in pots in the yard, and also cleaned up the back porch and patio furniture and made it look really nice out there. I took a long walk (it's 25 C/77 F here today - and has been for quite a number of days) and picked up a beautiful piece of fresh salmon at the market and made a marinade for it, as well as preparing some bacon wrapped asparagus and broccolini spears with a lemon garlic sauce. I'm going to charcoal grill it in the backyard a little later. One of my favorite things besides gardening is cooking - and MAN I love outdoor grilling. Typically, he and I used to do this stuff together, but he hasn't been engaging in anything lately, and I was so depressed, I couldn't muster up the desire either. But I started today to do the things I like again, with or without him. I miss his company at the grill and hanging out together in the yard during the weekend. However, if he's not in a good headspace, I have to just try to have fun anyway. He's home, but staying in the backyard or in his workshop. He's been sullen but mostly reasonable enough today, not saying much and still very dysregulated but not being horrible. When he saw I had cleaned up the house and yard, he picked up his basement room a bit, and changed the linens, finally. When he saw I had shopped, he went shopping too. Canned soup and milk - not his usual sophisticated fare, but that's ok. It's something.

I don't really have anywhere I can go except maybe stay with a friend for a night or two, but that's a hassle since I live in a suburb 30 minutes outside of a major city and I have to take a bus to town then ride the subway around. I'm geographically a little isolated. However, he's not harassing me at this point, and the two story house (plus his workshop) gives us a little space. He also has to go to his job's corporate office next week for the regular yearly training retreat, so he will be gone Mon-Fri at a workshop in the very northern part of the country. We'll have a break soon! :-)

His reality testing skills are also poor, I imagine. Certainly when he is very stressed.

OOooh can I come for lunch?   :)

what a great job on the self care.   give yourself another pat on the back.

it does sound like his reality testing isn't the best.   would you mind if I ask, how do you think that might impact you?    can you stay distant from his disordered thinking?

'ducks

Hi, Ducks!

It was dinnertime here, and the grilling went well. I would have loved to have had some good company. He actually showed up, helped a little, nibbled a little, and also aggressively tried to re-engage to the point where it was overwhelming and a bit much. After a month in the basement, he was frightening in the attempts to initiate conversation - but it was both severely self deprecating and accusatory, mostly centered around how he thinks I see him as stupid and worthless. I did the validation, SET, no JADE, but he wanted to fight. He told me I was talking like a politician, and he wanted me to rail on him and tell him what a stupid piece of sh!t he was.

I told him I wasn't interested in saying any such thing, and I would like to have some space, as this was making me feel threatened.

He went to the basement again, and has been screaming at me from down there for an hour. I now have headphones on and am blasting death metal in my ears in the locked upstairs office.

I suppose I could be doing more to support. But I don't know what. I'm in over my head here. I can deal with a mood swing, but this is just... .I don't know.

It seems the mania has kicked in now. I was bracing for this. *batten down the hatches*.

Ah, yes, you asked about staying distant. I’m trying my best, but I don’t know if I am using the best methods.

Hi BD

Oooh, your barbecue sounds delicious. No wonder he wanted to be a part of it!

There you go: he's down the rabbit hole and doesn't know how to get back out. He's wanting you to yell at him and fight, so at least he gets to blame you too!

Good work on staying centred. I wonder what would have happened if, in response, you led with some gentle questions.

"... .he wanted me to rail on him and tell him what a stupid piece of sh!t he was."

"Why do you think you're a stupid piece of sh!t?"

Without sarcasm or anything, just open and curious questioning... .

I am so sorry you're going through this and, again, I'm in awe at how well you're handling it all - even down to planting flowers and having a bbq! Wonder Woman! No doubt it's taking is toll but you have a very healthy attitude and sense of humour (bring on the death metal!  :) )

Joking aside, I think Baby Ducks suggestion is worth taking seriously. Have you got a 'go bag - important papers, cash, keys, a few clothes - ready, just in case? Hopefully it never comes to that but it's a good feeling, knowing you're prepared.
 

Hi, sunandmoon!

Yes, the BBQ was great, and I have some leftovers for today.  :)

I'll put together a go bag - just in case. Not sure where I'll "go" but I could stay at a hotel if it ever got really crazy.

Yesterday, I did manage to maintain a sense of humor about the whole thing which really rattled him. I did try validating and asking gently why he thought that I thought he was a stupid piece of sh!t. But he kept hammering away. He became so belligerent that it was comedic... .in a way. He was drunk, of course. Guzzling beer all day, and I think he had some harder liquor in his "man cave" because he was acting way beyond "beer drunk". He sometimes drinks rum and gets out of control.

Our dynamic really shifted yesterday. REALLY. I saw it happen before my eyes.

There have been some things that have been relatively constant in the heat of our disputes, in the past.

1.) He accuses me of being an alcoholic, though he drinks way more than I do and acts out because of it.

2.) He says mean things or ignores me, and if I try to engage, he shuns me.

3.) He pretends not to be jealous and as if he doesn't care if I leave him.

4.) He baits me with insults and if I act hurt of defensive, he ups the game.

Yesterday he was very drunk and kept annoying me because I was not engaging with him in any way, and have not for about two weeks. He kept trying to lure me outside to have a beer with him, chiding me that I'm an alcoholic, and I must need one. He also told me that when I'm sober he can't really annoy me, so he wanted me to start drinking. . I replied that I was going to hold off on the beer because I was doing some work online and I'd talk to him later. He kept escalating in his demands for attention which were getting increasingly more bizarre. He also kept telling me it's too quiet around here and he missed me yelling at him. (I rarely do that, unless he pushes me over the edge. But I don't let him any more.)

He started accusing me and my new therapist (who is also American, and we do online sessions) as plotting against him. Then he said that all Americans are out to destroy the world, and so he made up a song about greedy Americans trying to sue and destroy him and started singing it at top volume for over 30 minutes in the backyard. I think he was trying to lure me outside. I'm sure the neighbors were impressed.

I was actually laughing, because it was so bizarre and nowadays - his antics don't really get under my skin anymore. He was getting desperate and really loud and annoying.  Finally, I had no real excuse to NOT sit outside and have a beer, so I did eventually join him, and he began a barrage of rapid fire, strange questions, including "If you are so smart, why haven't you invented an engine that runs on water?"

I said, "You mean a steam engine? I might be a little late on that one."

Then he went on to start grilling me about my ex husband and accuse me of secretly meeting up with him and having an affair. He lives in the US, we live in Europe. Not really the easiest to arrange sneaky meetings. Overt jealousy isn't his norm, so this was new. It's usually latent and he tries to hide it.

His son has had a small painting hanging in his room for the last two years that my ex painted. It never bothered my partner before. Last night, he took it down and removed it from the room, claiming he had never been told my ex painted it. He absolutely knows this.

Eventually he got too drunk and became really unbearable. Hence me locking him out of the office and drowning him out with death metal. He was singing his "Horrible Americans" song at top volume from the basement. For at least an hour. When I finally took the headphones off, he had exhausted himself and fallen asleep. His voice seems quite hoarse today. 

It's morning here now. He's sober, and being sullen and avoidant again. Sitting on the couch playing his video game in the ubiquitous underwear. I wonder how much of last night he remembers?

He leaves tomorrow for the company retreat. Returns at the end of the week. I pray that being around his boss and work colleagues 24/7 will snap him back to baseline, since he CANNOT act that way at work. Maybe he'll return to that place in his head where he remembers that I'm the woman who loves him and not a spy, or an assassin, or any of the other things he has blurted out lately.

A gal can dream! (Fingers crossed!)

Hi Basement Dweller,

Death Metal is a thing?    Well I will be danged.   Uncle Google tells me it's a form of heavy metal.  Huh.   who knew.   I need to get out more.


BD,  do you know where the name borderline comes from?   they picked it because the illness was on the border of neurosis and psychosis.  Delusions can be part of that.   So can hallucinations.   I would feel that I was being remiss if I didnt' advocate for you to be proactive in protecting yourself.    It's important to have a safety plan even if you never use it.    Just like it's important to have an exit plan in case of a fire, you want to think through these things when nothing is going on.    What happens if.    Where are my spare keys.   How do I commuincate with trusted friends and supporters.   Do I have a separate bank account?

My Ex never snapped back from manic phases,   she usually slowly slipped back,  kind of the opposite of kindling.    and because my presence reminded (and shamed) her of things that had happened, me being around was often not helpful to her.   that was my experience,  yours might be different.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

'ducks

Hello, 'ducks!

Yes, we have totally separate bank accounts, at different banks. He has never tried to be financially abusive, or try to take money from me, so that's good.

I will devise a safety plan.

Yes, I do think that there is some sort of psychotic delusion going on right now. I'm not sure what all has happened to make him go this far down the rabbit hole for this long. I do suspect that something else is going on, perhaps a falling out with his sons. They may have called him out on certain behaviors lately, and perhaps established some distance from him. I don't know the details, but they haven't been home in weeks. I have never had a cross word with them, and they are always welcome here, but he's not seeing much of them outside the home, either. Maybe two visits in weeks. Something weird is happening that I can't see. I have no idea what.

Today, I asked him to help me get the weed trimmer and lawn mower out, and see if they need gas or upkeep before use. I told him I'd take care of the lawn, but just needed help with the machines. He was annoyed but cooperative at first. He tried to re-thread the "weed - whacker" but it's old and rusted up a bit. It wasn't really working so well, so he stood up and hurled it across the yard and smashed it to the ground. Really enraged. I have never seen him throw or smash anything. I think all my years of working in high stress occupations equipped me for this. I just stood calmly, and said "Ok, yeah. Maybe no weed trimming today. Perhaps it's time to get a new machine soon. Do you know any good brands?" (He's all about the power tools.) He just said. "Eh. Don't worry about the machine. I don't usually throw things. I'll put it in the truck to take to the dump."

Then he was really helpful with the lawn mower. After that he was cooperative about household stuff. Later, he went to his sister's house because his nephew is turning 18 today. They are having a birthday party. Normally, I'd be involved. I have organized a lot of parties for him and his family members, always welcoming them and preparing food and hospitality. He went without mentioning it to me. (I saw the birthday card he took with him, and know his nephew's birthday.) He deliberately excluded me, and at first, after he drove off, it hurt like hell. I cried a bit. But I'm not going to mention it. Or let him see that it hurt my feelings. It's not worth another argument. He needs his space, and TBH, so do I for a bit. And I don't now if I could see his whole family and pretend everything is fine, anyway. I don't even know what kind of crazy sh!t he's been telling them.

':)ucks, I think you're right. My presence triggers shame and regret about things. Why and how it got to this, I don't know. Its really sad. I really want this to work and for him to feel safe, but even my best use of the tools seems to be ineffective. Maybe some time apart will help.

Hi Basement Dweller

How are you today?    How are you feeling?

I read a book a couple of years ago and it said something so well,   it seemed so very true for me that I remember the line almost word for word.

"The borderline personality is programmed to sabotage relationships, to drive partners away, and to paradoxically be most at home when suffering from yet another perceived abandonment - even when the borderline partner worked hard (often unconsciously) to arrange this."


I didn't use to be able to tell apart the bipolar stuff and the BPD stuff in my ex.   eventually I could see the bipolar triggers.   they were mostly physical.   Sleep.  Food.   and Alcohol.   caffeine.   the BPD triggers were more emotional... .life stress.  hurt feelings.   feelings of being ignored.    the bipolar mania took a long time to resolve and for her thinking to become more rational again.    after the going-out-for-a-ride-in-a-blizzard because storms have messages, it took her about 6 weeks to settle into more organized thinking.


My Ex used to self harm in non standard ways.    Never cut or burnt herself.   She tripped and fell or slipped on the ice a couple of times a year.   Almost like clock work.    And she used me to harm herself.    that was very hard to deal with.   I found that she would stir things up in the relationship... .way beyond picking a fight …. just creating chaos to make the outside match her inside.    she would push and push on me until I snapped at her or yelled and then she felt better.   making me the agent of her punishment in a way.   

are you getting out and being around people who are not dsyregulated at all?  spending any time with friends?    going to a park?  museum?   library?

'ducks

Hi! How are you doing?   

I am not doing so hot. Everything you said makes sense, and I am currently experiencing everything you said in those quotes. To the letter. I refrained from logging on again to rant, until some time had passed since my last post... .but things got horribly ugly yesterday evening - the last night before he left for his trip this morning.

First, I was contacted by my ex-husband (whom I split with many years ago - he lives in the states) who told me that my partner had begun following him on Instagram. He didn't really notice because he doesn't know who he is, and it's more of a business page, so it has thousands of followers. However, he emailed my ex and told him all sorts of horrible things about me, that he was desperate for help, because I was trying to destroy him and he was becoming weaker and weaker everyday, because I was systematically trying to ruin his life. He implored my ex-husband to "help him" because he was afraid for his life, and he feared for my safety, his, and that of his kids. It was... .shocking.  My ex forwarded me the mail. Heartbreaking, ranting, delusional, and really hurtful. I couldn't let this pass. I told him that I was aware of what he had done and that it was inappropriate to contact my ex that way.

He tried to defend his actions, then later came running up the stairs, verbally bashing me while I was at the kitchen sink washing pans. He started shouting accusations and profanities at me, then claimed he had called the police and asked their permission to "do this" and he turned his phone on to record and stuck it in my face, and waited for me to respond in some way that might make me look unstable. (Not his first attempt to do this.) He had me sort of cornered at the sink, and I calmly tried to use the back of my had to push his arm and the phone away from my face. He became more aggressive, and fearing I'd touch or grab his phone, he tried to adjust his grip on it and dropped it into the sink with the hot soapy dishwater. It died.

And now it's my fault I "destroyed his phone."

I didn't sleep a wink last night. I'm useless at work today. He didn't either. He left for a long road trip to the corporate office exhausted and completely disheveled.

With a heavy heart, I am starting to think that he isn't coming out of the rabbit hole, and maybe this isn't sustainable. His children haven't been home in almost a month and he blames me for this. I believe he has started the smear campaign of me to the whole family who once loved me. I fear he's just going to descend further. I don't want it to be like this at all. I want peace and harmony and tranquility - a loving relationship. He's doing everything in his power to push for the exact opposite. I feel so heartbroken.

Right now, I don't have much time to do anything but work, and brave the long congested commute. Not really soothing. I'll do a little yard work this evening if I can muster the strength, and enjoy the peace and quiet.

Hi Basement Dweller.

I am so sorry.   You are a good person and you do not deserve this.   Nothing you have done or said warrants this type of behavior.    You made no mistakes.    Mental illness.   Serious, severe mental illness does this.


I am going to encourage you to muster strength like it's your full time job right now.    do everthing you can think of to grow your reserves, care for yourself, line up allies and advocates, call in all the favors you are owned, let people take care of you, eat well, get out into the fresh air and sunlight.


use his road trip as a rebuilding period for yourself.    you've been through a lot.


'ducks

Thank you, 'ducks. It's all just so sad - feels like a nightmare I can't wake up from. If this cannot be repaired, I am going to miss those two kids that I embraced as my own family. The house and yard I did so much work on. The man I loved despite his difficulties and imperfections. If he would be willing to rip all of that out from underneath me after all the kindness, generosity and open-heartedness I have showed his entire family - and him... .I really don't know if I can ever believe in anything anymore.

Dear BD

I am so sorry. This is really out of control and must be unbearable for you.

That he contacted your ex husband and made such crazy allegations is almost unbelievable. I would be furious! You've kept it together really well but he's really pushing the limits on what anyone can put up with.

I have to wonder what else he's been telling people. You said you usually get on well with his ex-wife... .do you feel comfortable meeting up with her and asking what's going on? It might help you to understand what is happening with his sons, as well as give you an opportunity to correct any other wild accusations he's been making. She was married to him once; she's probably experienced similar behaviour. What do you think?

Please use this week of respite to take very good care of yourself. You deserve some extra kindness and special treats, even if they come from yourself.

Hi, sunandmoon! (I almost said, "Hi S&M! But then thought better of it.)  :)

Unfortunately reaching his ex-wife will not be possible in the thick of it. She and I have always got along well, but she is notorious for being high strung and over-reactive herself when stressed. And she's very typical of the culture here - very avoidant, and very uncomfortable with discussing anything that might not be totally pleasant. She and I talked ONCE briefly about this, and she alluded to the fact that I wasn't the crazy one, and she understood. That was all I got, and that was a year ago.

A lot has happened since then, and I am sure he has been stirring the pot for a while now. Also, as my once very logical ex told me when I lamented as to why she was hammering on me when she KNOWS I have always been nice to her and the whole family, yet giving him a pass (or so it seems) when she knows he's unstable, "Because the truth is uncomfortable for her. It's easier to scapegoat you, a relative newcomer to the mix, than the father of her children whom she has to live with for the rest of her life. It's easier to believe that you're the problem than it is to have to accept just how unhinged her kids' biological father really is."

 :thought:

So yeah, I think I'll just lay low for a while She's in full blown control freak mode, and I want no part of it.

This morning I told my partner to send me a text when he got where he was going safely. He muttered something about being a good driver and why do I care.

The hour came and went when he long ago should have arrived. I messaged "Are you there safely? Hope so."

Left it there.

He let me stew until nearly three hours longer than the trip should have taken, and eventually wrote: "You destroyed my phone! I can't believe you did that!"

Me: "Yay! Glad you're safe." (He has a work phone as well. His personal phone has not risen from its watery grave.)

It's nice and quiet around here. Watering the lawn and enjoying a glass of red wine - without him here to call me an alco. Glorious.  *)

Basement Dweller, It's really sounding as if things are not safe there. This doesn't sound to me like a man on a tantrum-induced smear campaign, he sounds truly delusional and as if he believes these things he's saying.

Babyducks's ex saw messages in storms. Mine sees people in the clouds who tell her to do things. There's no doubt in my mind that the "ghosts" she sees are real to her. What really spooks me in when she sees people I recognize, or someone I thought I dreamed... .

Anyway, I think romantic relationships ARE triggers to many traumatized people. It's sad as heck. And I definitely recognize the phenomena Babyducks describes:

   

It's not the nons fault, but its sucks for us nonetheless.

Another word of warning BD, a smear campaign can be very nasty, targeting your , parents, workmates, and children, needless to say the police, violence orders death threats, framing you etc etc any secrets or weaknesses your partner holds can and will be used against you, until you have been through it you will not believe it , be careful!

LadyItone and slyQQ - hello, again and thank you! 

You both make good points. I feel unsafe right now, and yes, there is some odd sort of delusions happening, as well as a possible smear campaign going on. I can't help but think about my role in all of this.

I've done the Meyers Briggs type test a number of times, both in my youth, and recently as part of an employment assessment. I've done the short version (80 questions, I think?) and the long (over 200 questions - a number of times.) My result never varies.

Introvert (100%) Intuitive (75%) Thinking (100%) Judging (81%)

Strong to distinctive preferences in all categories. Apparently, quite judgemental, and totally inside myself, with zero feelings. I must be fun at parties. :-(

I'm not sure that's all there is to me, but the test results aren't so off the mark, and maybe we are on to something. Maybe I am not so cut out for being a good partner to anyone - or at least anyone who feels... .anything. I have started to delve into this with my new T, and she gets it. It can be really hard for very different personalities to mesh - even if there is love there.

I agree, feeling/being safe is important, and if I have the choice, I'd very much like to have that!

Loud, raised voices and verbal (or, of course, physical abuse) are not ok. It's fine if someone gets upset and vents a little, or "snaps" as they say, and after a bit of a tantrum, can come down to earth again. I'm pretty resilient, but when it is a prolonged event, or there's cruelty or personal attacks involved, then yes, it gets very uncomfortable.

So my boundaries in any relationship, I think, would be:
1.) I prefer honest open dialog, and reasonable acceptance /discussion of differing opinions, without personal attacks.
2.) Venting anger is ok, but a barrage of shouting insults, I am not comfortable with.
3.) I also want to be heard, and not have my asking to have my needs acknowledged occasionally be seen as a personal affront. (I suppose this is more of a desire than a boundary.)
4.) Live in the here and now, and look toward the future with a positive and proactive view of what is needed to best assure success in the relationship. I do not want to continue to re-hash old disputes that have long since passed by.
5.) My list of what I cannot tolerate is really short: Threats, ultimatums, personal attacks.

(Note, our relationship has never been threatened by infidelity, financial irresponsibility, an absence of passion/attraction etc. None of the "big killers." Most of our battles have literally been triggered by a minor disagreement that escalated to a volcanic eruption.) Examples: Opinions about food preparation/dinner plans, preferred dog breeds, movie choices, best countries to visit while on holiday. It's always about things that most would consider a differing viewpoint on very trivial things. Most couples, or people in general, would say, "Oh, ok, I have a different opinion"... .and that would be ok. And deep down, I know it's not about the food, or the dog breeds, or movies... .it's about a failure to connect and be collaborative when there's any kind of dilemma. We both have very different coping styles. He's emotional, I'm logical, and "wise mind" hasn't made it to the party yet. ;-)

With my partner, differences of opinion between us are deeply troubling for him, and he reacts in a very volatile way to these things. I suppose in the past I have failed to respond in kind. Because, as I know now, I was applying my logic to his emotions, which is a recipe for failure.

It's like trying to cut a stick of frozen butter with a water balloon.

I know I invalidated him by saying "What? It's no big deal! This is not a relevant threat in the grand scheme of life!" At the time, that was the only response I knew. I know my inability to be emotionally astute is half of the problem - though it's not easy to admit.

To him, these things were relevant threats. At least his feelings about them were. I still struggle with this. HOW to best respond without being invalidating, meanwhile not allowing myself to be bowled over by an emotional tsunami of blame and rage... .over the best way to boil an egg. There has to be a middle ground of sorts, but I haven't truly found it yet.

This is likely why I suck at everything - especially well rounded people who can actually feel stuff: https://www.16personalities.com/intj-strengths-and-weaknesses

Hi Basement Dweller,

I hope you had a well deserved peaceful nights rest. 

I am wondering if you have identified your personal line in the sand.    The line at which point things change into a not sustainable relationship.    for me I could feel things building and building in my relationship.    I made a couple of efforts to hold the relationship together.   they were kind of feeble half hearted attempts.    and then my ex let rip with a major push.   and I let myself be pushed.    she did the "I've had enough, I am not doing this anymore.  I am trying as hard as I can and you ~say~ you are trying as hard as you can.   I am not doing this anymore."    and I said "okay".   she said 'what?'   and I said 'okay'.

there was probably two weeks where I could have gone all in to save things.    and during that two weeks I went back and forth in my head about which way to go.   being all engineer like I drew graphs.    literally.    try to save things or let it go graphs.    for two weeks I was all over those graphs.    but I was tired.   just soul weary.    and I could see the advantages to me, if she was pushing that was the ~better~ time for me to exit.   less fraught.   so she pushed and I let her.    which wasn't too hard.   and when she pulled I didn't let her.   that was harder.   and being disordered she pushed the relationship right into the gutter.   I didn't have to do much.  for me that was the right decision.  going with her natural reactions kept things calmer for me.   not easy.   and I struggled.     took me a little over a year before I could sit in my reclining chair and not be afraid the door was going to burst open with some one screaming at me.

don't know if that helps or not.    hope so.   

'ducks

oops sorry cross posted.



people with BPD do not have a well defined sense of self.   they don't have the innate ability to stand on their own.  they struggle to identify likes and dislikes probably because they never successfully developed a separate identity as a child.   the only solution to this is to merge into an amoeba like oneness with who ever they are partnered with.    if they can't merge into an amoeba like oneness it feels like a threat to their very existence.     

you are doing good work.   hang in there!

It helps and it makes sense. I just have to be there and be ready. I'm not yet 100% sure that I want to leave this person I love. At least not entirely.

I wish we could start over, knowing what we know now. I seriously want to agree to ending this relationship here and now, and starting today as day one. Like we just met. A new beginning.

I wish it were possible to enter into a new relationship, with a “hindsight manual” of what can go wrong, what not to do, and how not to do it. I wish there was a way to know, right out of the starting gate, what your new partner’s needs are, and exactly how to meet them without messing it all up. It would make everything so much easier. But it’s never really “easy” is it? Because we’re all only human, and even with the best of intentions - we can, and often do get it wrong - at least the first time.

I wish there was a way to have a roadmap of all your new partner’s complexities, and detailed instructions on how to navigate them. So you don’t make mistakes. So you don’t fail. So you don’t waste time before you figure out “how to get it right.”

But sadly, nobody gets that... .

... .or do they?

Hindsight manual

you can't win in a romantic relationship with a BPD.

its short,

Hey, SlyQQ -

I don’t care about winning. Just surviving the day to day stuff. Succeeding, perhaps. Winning, no. I don’t see it as a contest.

Fair enough , your partner does though.

hope you survive, seriously.

Many succeed and fail in " normal" relationships.
Having a BPD in your life certainly makes it hard. But many relationships have succeeded with a BPD partner.  I haven't given up hope yet. Though many days I question why.

I totally get the push ducks. I think if my husband said go this ti me... I'd walk away for the least amount of pain. But so many times he has and I stay.

Hi basement dweller,

I like your list of 5 items.   I have a pretty good idea about how long it took to write.   I can tell you put some time and thought into your list.

I'm wondering if there is a way to transfer that list into action that will help now during this rough patch.

SlyQQ, I realize you are likely right about that. But what on earth is he winning? That's what I don't understand. This unrest can't feel good. As for me surviving... .I really don't know. I'm starting to doubt that. I think the stress of it all alone could be my undoing.

Cat lady, I would love to have it work if he ever returns to something sort of like a baseline. I fear I'm permanently painted black now, and the worst thing is - I don't even know that the trigger REALLY was this time. Maybe he just couldn't handle having to be accountable for his half of the commitment and the responsibilities that go with it.

':)ucks, I will try to put those things into motion to the best of my ability. I don't know if it will do much good in the end, or if he will ever really return to some degree of sanity. I have to just try to do the best I can and see what happens. It's so damn exhausting and has gone on for way too long now.

Sorry BD I wanted to give you a heads up, this is the bettering board so i try to reserve my comments,

having said that this smells like very bad trouble, and you need to protect yourself, there is a time to let go of false hopes and promises and it is likely you are close to that.

It is highly unlikely,( though not impossible) at this stage even if he re-regulates and comes back to earth it will not happen again, and soon, and worse.

You ask what success is in a close BPD relationship, honestly i don't believe it is possible in any meaningful way,
avoiding catastrophic failure is in the vast majority of cases a best case scenario.

From where you are presently that is a very distant possibility, you have to find all your emotional armour,
please, If you want to even continue this relationship in the moderate term , might well put you in real phyisical and emotional danger, hanging in there and trying to ride it out will only make it worse, your partner will sense the danger of being abandoned and that will trigger all his fears,

please take care and be prepred, there are saftey packs ( advice packages )here skip might be able to help good luck

Hi, Sly -

What a sad dilemma. When my only options are to hang in there, and trigger his abandonment fears more, or actually abandon him, thus fulfilling the prophecy. As you said, it's a little bit hard to just "give up" as we have built a lot in our 2.5 years together, and to abruptly just let it all shatter... .when I don't even know if that's what he really wants, or this is just some panic/fear/shame based meltdown. The unpredictability of it is maddening. When you are dealing with a disordered person, you don't have any way of gauging what they are actually trying to tell you, or where they are in their head.

I partially agree with what Sly has said about being prepared and thinking about your safety, BD. You're in new and strange territory, he is exhibiting what seems to be psychotic as well as paranoid behaviour, so you should prepare for the worst case scenario - just in case.

However, with all due respect to Sly, I don't agree with sweeping generalisations about all BPD relationships. So much depends on the people involved - both partners.

In the first year of being with my husband - almost 13 years ago now - he exhibited 8 out of the 9 DSM criteria for diagnosing BPD. The only one he didn't fit was suicide, although I suspect the reckless driving was sometimes an attempt at suicide by motorbike accident.

Dysregulating, raging and silent treatment were weekly events. Dissociation and craziness, depression, mood swings, Jekyll and Hyde personality changes - you name it, I've seen it.   
It's been a wild ride and a lot of work but every year has gotten better.

Last month, we celebrated 7 straight months of NO dysregulation or raging. As close to marital bliss as I think is possible.

He broke our run with a mild wobbly early in April and a brief silent treatment of 3 days (as opposed to 3 week ST's being normal in the early years), returned quickly to baseline and we've had another month of peaceful closeness. I expect that to mostly continue... .

I'm not saying that's how this will be for you BD, or for many people struggling with these relationships, but I don't believe "... .avoiding catastrophic failure is in the vast majority of cases a best case scenario." Not at all.

How are you going BD? Any communication since he's been away?

Hey, SunandMoon!

It sounds like you have had a rather challenging go of it for a while. Kudos to you for weathering the storm. I know all relationships (BPD or not) can be challenging and not all BPD's act exactly the same. It's an unpredictable road.

I'm surviving - thank you for asking! :-) I went out after work today with a good friend and had a couple of beers and dinner outdoors at a really nice place by the water, as we are having absolutely heavenly weather here around these parts. Not a ton of communication from dBPDbf, except for the "you destroyed my phone" exchange I described earlier.

However -

During dinner, my phone blew up. (It's almost as if he sensed I was having fun!)  :)

He had forgotten some important codes for his work phone (some pin code/puk code thing he needs for the sim card) and some other passwords for his CRM reports. (Stuff he should have taken with him.)

He was frantically calling and texting from a colleague's phone. Wanting my help.

I texted back that I was out and would be home in about an hour.

"PLEASE CALL ME ASAP WHEN YOU GET HOME."

I finished dinner (not in a hurry), got home, got comfortable, then called. Previously, I would have been in a panic, rushing home to rescue. This time... .not so much. I did help, but I did not rush. At all.

He was polite on the phone, but not exactly loving, haha. I found it ironic that he could be so nasty to me for days on end, then frantically demand my help later on. Most partners, in this situation, nons maybe, would say "Hey... .I know I have been an a$$hole lately. I'm sorry. I have to eat crow and ask for help here. Can you please call me? I forgot my pin codes."

None of that. Just frantic Wow ARE YOU HOME WHERE ARE YOU I NEED YOUR HELP PLEASE CALL ASAP Wow HELP MEEEEE. Like we're all good, and I just can't wait to jump up and rescue.

Ah well.

I agree that Sly has a point in saying that I should prepare for dangerous territory. I know that. I am actually making an exit plan, and meeting with legal counsel Friday morning - just in case I need a hasty exit and a legal advocate in the event that it gets ugly. Not my choice. Not what I would have wanted. Ever. But I probably do need to start looking out for myself in case he starts some scorched earth tactics.

Two questions - you said that the first few years were really hard and there was frequent dysregulation and silent treatment from your partner. Did he ever dysregulate for a month, or a month and a half, move into another room, tell you he wanted to break up, etc. - but yet really do nothing to take action on it? What did you do during the worst of times, when you just could not connect, and how did he come around?

I don't really know what the trigger was this time, or why he keeps spiraling downward with no new events even happening. It's like there's a tornado of chaos in his head, and he's just caught up in the whirling spiral, being thrown about with no real way to land safely. Meanwhile, I'm here on the other side of the field, watching the Category 5, and thinking "I need to get out of the way of this, but I can't stop looking... .what the heck is going on over there?"

Wow, I would kill for 7 months of peace. Hell, 7 days would be an oasis.  :)

PS, my partner is a solid 8 out of 9, no suicide that I know of, but also very reckless driving. We match there.

Hi BD

I love the way you make sure you still go out, take time to enjoy the beautiful weather, stop and smell the roses! I'm sure this has been an upsetting and stressful time for you, but you're doing everything right!

I'm very glad you're exploring an exit plan. Even if you never have to use it (and I hope you don't) it's empowering.

It's not surprising to me that your partner expects to be able to call on you for help, especially for something work-related... .mine would do the same. Sometimes he would use something like that as a way to start talking again, in a totally neutral way - like nothing had happened. Good on you for not rushing to rescue!


Yes, frequently in the first few years and occasionally up until early last year. A month would be pretty standard, holed up in our guest room, which has its own entrance and bathroom. Some days, I'd only see him sneak in after dark... .with his bag of fast food and his stranger's face.

Break ups, yelling "it's over!", wanting a divorce - even over what I would consider minor disagreements. It was all hot air - a lot of loud tantrums and high drama, followed by silent treatment and sulking.

During the worst times, it's hard to keep going. Of course I'd get angry as well, or just fed up with the cycles, but I learnt to eventually distance myself from it and just stay true to myself.

I've learnt so much about BPD over the years. Knowledge really is power, so I've read a lot of books: "Stop Walking... ." (average), "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me", "Loving Someone with BPD" and many more, as well as psychology texts, blogs by people with BPD, forums for pwBPD, and, of course, this wonderful forum for many years.

Understanding the disorder has helped me cope through the worst times, as well as truly radically accept our situation. It helps me to feel compassion, to distance myself from the drama, and to know what tools to use, and when to time 'talks' and enforce boundaries.

It's taken years - I wish there was some quick fix! - and will always require work, but then, all long term relationships do, even for nons.

Hello, sunandmoon!

Wow - are you sure we don't have the same partner?  :)

Because your guy sounds an awful lot like mine! Right down to the crappy take-out food. I think the only thing I can do is hold my ground, refuse to be bullied out, continue to be neutral or positive, and not engage in the drama. And yes, more fun in the sun for as many days as the weather forecast allows.  *)

The exit plan is being explored only as an emergency measure. But I do agree with him being so unpredictable, I need to be realistic.

I haven't read any of those books, but I think I can order them through Amazon. Might be a good idea to add them to my "summer reading list"! :-)

I'm glad to hear that you and your partner found a way to make it at least manageable most of the time now. He and I are only two years in, and two years as live-in partners. I think the the responsibility of having to be accountable for his side of the commitment, and be mature and share a house and expenses has finally sunk in. The gravity of it, and that he can't really just "hide out" when he can't cut the mustard emotionally like he did with his previous partners who did not live with him and he kept at arms length. He could just "not see them" when he felt bad. He can't really hide from the woman he lives with - so now I think he's panicking and trying to. I guess giving him as much space as possible is all I can do.

That's just one part of it all. The weirdly psychotic behaviors as of late I think are coming from other places too... .issues with other family members, and of course his own internal feelings of shame, and lord knows what else that might be running around in his head. I just get to be the lucky recipient. ;-) The fact that he hasn't been bombarding me with hate mail the entire duration of his trip is somewhat of a good sign, I guess. Tomorrow we'll see how it goes... .

*mod*

This thread has now been locked due to reaching it's size limit.  The discussion continues in this thread (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325684.msg12971491#msg12971491).  Thanks for everyone's participation.