BPDFamily.com

I am new to this, and I have to talk to someone. My fiancé has BPD, and our relationship is out of control. We've been together for a year and a half. Our relationship started out PERFECT. We fell hard for each other early on. Now, we are engaged, living together and have an 8 week old baby. She started out being very jealous, with everyone. Guys, Girls, Best friends, Family Members, even her family. She would get mad at me and not talk to me for days and tell me to leave her alone, but when I did, she would get more mad, hurt herself, and blame me because I "didn't care" about her feelings. She constantly degrades me, puts me down, tries to control me and tries to control our babies life too. After he slowly taking all of my friends from me, she slowly started taking away family members, and is now trying to make me choose between her and my mom. She wont let my mom babysit, and she gets angry when I text her or talk to her on the phone. She threatens me and tells me she'll "kill me" if I take let her watch the baby behind her back. We have never gotten physical, but last week she hit me for the first time. She threatens to leave me and take our baby, tells me i'll never see them again... .all because I keep talking to MY MOM. She took all of my friends from me, but I refuse to let her take my family away. I love her so much, but I cant fight and argue anymore. I have to figure out what to do, I cant take anymore. Its only getting worse.

Hi raiano18,

Sounds difficult. We have many members who have been down this path. There are things you can do to slowly turn this in a better direction.

Jumping the the physical incident, can you tell us what happened. We it a fight? How did she react? How did you react?

 
     Welcome to bpdfamily

We were arguing, because she said she was taking our baby and going back to her grandmas, which in the past I would've begged for her to stay, but this time I was like "ok... ." and that pissed her off even more. So she got in my face, said "___ you" and she hit me. I was in total shock, but in return I said "___ you too" and then she got up (didn't leave) but kept arguing.

From her perspective, why did she threaten to leave?

From your perspective, what was this all about?

From her: I choose my mother over her, her feelings and everything. I also choose my mothers side (which is not true)

From me: It was all over the fact that she verbally attacked my mother and expected me to be ok with it. All I said was "Im not getting in the middle of it, again"

I take it this has been going on a while. If so, it will take some time and tenacity to reverse this cycle of conflict. It's not unusual for a pwBPD to be threatened by family and friends and its not unusual to sever relationships to resolve the threat.

In the long run, that doesn't work for them and it doesn't work for you, either (obviously). You want to find am answer were she is not living in anxiety and fear and you don't have to go into witness protection to hide from your beloved mother.

The transaction patterns (how you communicate) in your relationship are ingrained on both sides, and it will take a little work to find and ingrain a healthier pattern.

Make sense? It's not an answer, but it is a characterization of what lies ahead to resolve this. It's not a overnight fix. This is a series of discussion with members.

A good immediate take home would be how to avoid what happened when you got hit. You were both reliving a fight you have had many times and fueling each other to escalate. She has a lot of emotion and all this escalation actually makes her feel a little better. You are a emotional punching bag and she is acting like anyone who goes to the gym and hits a bag to relieve frustration. You freaking out makes her feel better.

You want to find a better way to sooth her than to be a punching bag. The best way is to get her to self-sooth, but that is something you workup to from where you are.

Is this making sense?

Obviously, it would be good to get an agreement from both you to not escalate, but if she has BPD, you would do better to model a "not escalating" style and she will slowly pick it up. 

Hi raiano18,

Skip is helping you a lot here, just wanted to share an example of avoiding escalation.

My SO said some pretty insulting things to me tonight. I could have dished it right back at him, JADED as we say, or upped it even, but instead I said one thing and left it at that.  I didn't keep fueling the fire. He made his point, he is "not happy with me". Got it. Okay. Point taken. I didn't try to argue to convince him I am right and he is wrong, or try change his mind. He said his piece. I said okay. With nothing to go on, his anger did not escalate and he walked away. Unfortunately, nothing is resolved, but at least I don't have more ugliness to deal with today.

Am I upset? Yes. Could I have done better at this conversation? Yes. But now I have some quiet time to think it over and see what to do next. I bought time.

It is such a fine line between letting someone use us a verbal or physical punching bag and just choosing not to make things worse.

wishing you peace, pearl.

I have noticed the more reaction I give the more I fuel the fire. Which isn't what I want to do, but I get so angry sometimes. Especially when she tells me she "hates me" after I do EVERYTHING in the world for her. Also, it enrages me when she threatens me with our baby. It is also my baby. I have a say. No one has custody, but she makes it like I'm privileged that she lets me have my daughter. I'm the father. I have just as many rights as she does. It has gotten much much worse since the baby was born, and I'm terrified it'll only get worse. Honestly, if I knew I could have full custody of her, I would leave. Im at my breaking point! It hurts to feel that way, but I don't know how much more I can handle. I started counseling, and now she's mad about that. She questions me about my counselor (jealousy). Everything I do is "against her" in her eyes. Me going to get coffee before work, so I must be "cheating on her". I can't live a normal social life anymore, and its breaking me down. 

This stuff sucks.

It really helps to express our frustration, so that is good. Get it all written down and out there for you and us to see. You really can't start to make progress until you have taken inventory and realize fully, that this is an unhealthy place right now.

When you are ready, you can work on tools to calm down the tensions... .when you are ready.  :)

How do you suggest I go about this. Should I tell her how I feel? Should I leave her? Should I talk to her about BPD? Should I keep living with this constant anxiety? I'm lost. That's why IM SO THANKFUL I found this website!

small, incremental changes can be a safe way to go about it... .

drastic change can be scary. it can feel like distance.

trying to solve everything in one day, so to speak, isnt possible.

but it will take a lot to get the relationship on a healthy trajectory. take it step by step.

have you spoken since the hitting incident? if youve had a big blow out before, who usually reaches out first.

 

Hello raiano18,


How do you suggest I go about this.

once removed said it pretty well - it's all baby steps. 

You pick like one thing from the lessons and tools you think you can try.  Get to where it feels natural to do instead of what your old feelings told you to do.  You slowly establish a new "normal" as you work on you.  Working on her is for her to do.  You work on you.  As you change, slowly, she will be forced to adapt to the new "normal".  If you stop reacting the same old way to her outbursts, she has to try new things to get her emotions out. 

One thing to try to do especially in cases where it's gotten physical, or even just really heated, is to remove yourself from being yelled at/hit.  This is far easier said than done, and not always possible.  But, you can't change her mind.  And you don't benefit from being a verbal or literal punching bag.  And it really does not resolve her feelings that well, or in a healthy way to allow it.  Since she is emotionally disabled and dysregulated, you are the one who has to take action to change things.  Find a way or a few methods ahead of time to get out.  Keep keys and phone where you can get them in a moment's notice.  Try not to get boxed in (my house is small, I get boxed in and can't leave easily).  And then, just go.  I tend to "remember" an errand, or need to go outside to do yard work, if I need to get out of the house.  Sometimes, I can just slip away and find a core that keeps me out of the room with H.  All in all, you set a boundary around yourself to protect you from abusive language and actions.  And to enforce that boundary, since you can't control her, you remove yourself.

Should I tell her how I feel?

I am finding that a LOT of BPD actions are about feeling their emotions are being disregarded, they are being told they are wrong in some way (often ways we can't even fathom - not laughing enough at a joke can be seen as invalidating), and they can't process blame, shame, or embarrassment.

You can tell her.  But she is likely not in a place to be able to listen the way you'd like.  she will likely hear little more than blame at this time.  You can set some boundaries, like "I will not accept being yelled at.  I will go for a walk and come back after you've had time to cool down."  I think for now you want to tone down the drama.  This is hard, as she isn't the one who realizes a change is needed, and you will be fighting to swim upstream for a bit.  The kind of heart to heart the movies show us don't really work especially not with BPD. 

I'd write my feelings on here.  It's a safer place, we will listen and you can get support and not a fight.

Should I leave her?

Only you can decide this.  This particular board is for improving, but everyone understands you're the one there, day by day.  If you feel it's too bad, and you fear for the child, then you can't hurt to make some "break in case of fire" plans.  Like, make some plans now, or at a calm period.  Just like you'd do if you lived in a hurricane zone (I do, so we have batteries, water and MREs on standby, even if it's a calm year).  Then if you need the plan, great, you can use it in a  period of stress.  And if you never need it, nothing lost except a little time and/or brain power.

Should I talk to her about BPD?

I ersonally say no.  I am finding that a LOT of BPD actions are about feeling their emotions are being disregarded, they are being told they are wrong in some way (often ways we can't even fathom - not laughing enough at a joke can be seen as invalidating), and they can't process blame, shame, or embarrassment. Telling a pwBPD that you think they HAVE BPD is like saying (in their mind) you are a messed up weirdo with a disease and everything is your fault and you suck and you need to be committed and I hate you.  Or some variation of that.  Telling them about it usually does NOT result in them seeking help.  It often puts them at odds with EVER getting help, especially when a relationship is in a volatile phase.  Back to baby steps.  Down the road, after you've found what tools work for you when talking about tough topics, like money or such, you can see how receptive she is to listening.  Carefully.   

Should I keep living with this constant anxiety?

No.  But I suspect a lot of this anxiety comes from the feeling YOU should be able to control HER emotions.  You can't.  You are allowed to let go of that feeling of responsibility.  I hate going home when I feel H is in a bad mood.  Hell, that was me yesterday.  But, I was able to post on here a few times, and it helped me.  And I got through it, to a somewhat better place today.

He and I were in a really bad patch 10 years out, then I found this site, and it's walked me through stopping making things worse, most of the time.  even as rough as he's been lately, it's not like he sued to be, shouting fights almost daily, totally irrational most of the time, a terrible period.  Things CAN improve, but it has to start with you being able to change you and then she kinda gets dragged along your path of improvement like she's tied on a bungee and as you climb, she gets pulled up. 


I just want you to know there is hope.  And we have felt similar things to you, and won't dismiss you. 

Are there any tools you think that can work for you?  Have you been able to go over much as far as lessons? 

Also, forgot to add, sorry - try NOT to focus on what she claims is the issue.  Sure, it might have upset her, but often there is a deeper core to the anger, rage, fears.  It's not your mom exactly.  Its the fear of another person who has emotional sway over you possibly talking you into abandoning her.  It's a kid of jealousy, but even if your mom was not a target, any other close friend or relative might be.  Or you work.  Whatever.  The rage needs a focus and a lens.  You are the lens, your mom the target, at times. 

JADEing seems to result when we try to explain away the cause of anger, but since it's really not the cause of the anger deep deep down , instead it could be a reminder of an embarrassment from 20 years ago by a TV commercial.

It sounds silly, but if you have cats, you may have seen this.  Anger/aggression transference I think it's called.  So, I have 3 cats.  They get along great.  One night, a strange cat was outside and freaked one of MY indoor cats out.  Who could not handle her anger/fear about the cat outside, and then transferred that anger and fear to the cat sitting right next to her, and attacked her for no reason I could see.  We expect humans to act more rationally than cats, but well, BPD can make that a problem. 

So, don't get too bogged down in the accusations.  Her truth is her feelings, and her feelings change day by day, hour by hour.  Something that made her mad last week may not matter at all this week.  Or vice versa.  It'd be like fighting quicksand. 

Before you can make anything better... .you have to stop making it worse.

Watch this 2.5 minute video. It works. It's the first baby step.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

Hi raiano18,

I am not so good with anger. I like to be in control and not go off on someone. I am certainly capable of it, but who wants to live like that, ya know? So on my drive to work today I let those thoughts just rip in my head. I said all kinds of rotten things I would never want to say and after that I felt much better. I knew I would not say those things, at least not in that form, but usually I don't even let myself think such thoughts, but not today. I was once macho little toughie in my head!

When I was younger I had a boyfriend who was great in some ways and pretty difficult in others. I was a little bit macho and would stand up to him (all 6'4' 220 lb's of him to my 5'5', let's not think about my weight... .ahahahaha. it's perfect. i never eat too many cookies! ) until I realized it was damaging my health, so I turned course and started a pretty serious meditation practice for quite a long time. I want to control my anger, not be controlled by it. I don't do it now, I should, but it honestly is still paying dividends until this day. It is a big deal to learn how to slow down your reaction times and be more at peace.

There is a lot you can do for yourself, no matter what your partner does or doesn't do, to make things a bit better.

with compassion, pearl.

raiano18, you doing ok?

You two must be pretty tired with an 8 going on 9-week old baby.

That certainly can't help make this easier for either of you.

Is there any time in the relationship when things kind of cool down for you two?

Or is it pretty much walking a tightrope the whole time.

How you respond to her may depend on how well rested you guys are right now, and whether there are tender cycles.

Hope you're hanging in there.

How's your baby doing? Congratulations are in order there  :)

livednlearned makes a good point.  When we had our first baby, she slept pretty well for the first month, but 8 weeks was the absolute worst.  We were absolutely strung out and exhausted.

Your pain at having access to your baby used as a control tool really hit home for me.  I have felt that pain, and wouldn't wish it on anyone.  I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.  You're getting some fantastic advice here.  Stick with us and we can help build your strength and coping tools.

How have you been the last couple of days?

WW

THANK YOU EVERYONE! Thank you so much to everyone who took time out to help me and talk to me. It really does help to be able to talk about things. Sadly, she checks my phone quite frequently because I’m “sneaky” so I only get on here when I’m at work. Monday-Friday. She is working today so I had some alone time to get on and read my replies. The baby is doing great! Thank you for asking. She’s 9 weeks (as of yesterday) the past couple of days have been like  roller coaster.half the day she’s in good spirits and the rest she’s manic and I tend to lose hope of everything. Yesterday, she begged me to buy her a $400 Kate Spade purse, and like the great fiancé I am, I did. I also got her a wallet, bracelet, and necklace. No thank you no nothing. And then she treated me like I was a walking mat. And made me regret everything nice I did. It’s  so bad.

That had to have been hard to do those things for her and not be acknowledged!

When you have a minute, take a look at that video Skip linked above, and also take a look at this link on how to not “justify, argue, defend, or explain” (JADE) (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0).  Let us know if those two resources give you some ideas for how to keep things a bit calmer.  The help here is free, and many of us have been in your shoes, so we're here for you.  We are committed to helping you get to a better place.

WW

I watched the SET video and I read about JADE. Sympathy, empathy & truth. I feel like it makes 100% sense to me, but I feel like it wouldn’t with her. If I said “I’m sorry” she’d say “you always say that but your actions prove differently” if I empathize and say “I know how that would make you feel” she’d say “then why do you continue to do it, you never put yourself in my shoes” and if I say “next time we should... .” she’d say “there shouldn’t be a next time”. She makes me out to be like a horrible person. I’ve “cheated, lied, and broke my promises” to her. It just feels like no matter how much good/right I do, I get kicked in the ass for it. I bendover backwards for her and she says what a horrible person I am. She is this way because “of the way i treat her”. I don’t consider her feelings, I cheat on her, I stick up for others. It’s  all wrong. If she only knew the arguments I’ve been in with people over her, and if I tell her that “I’m lying”. We’ve been working on our relationship, but all of a sudden within the past 24 hours it’s like she’s  different person. She doesn’t want to kiss me, hug me or say “I love you”. Everything changes in a blink of an eye. She’s Been giving me the silent treatment and when I speak to her, she’s answers with such a harsh tone that I don’t even want to speak to her, and that’s hurts me.

One of the most terrifically difficult things about being in a relationship with someone who has very pronounced BPD behaviors is trying to maintain your bearings.  It seems like down is up and up is down sometimes.  In a healthy relationship, we can rely on the other person as a reality check.  Each person in the couple helps to negotiate a common sense of reality.  This does not work in a BPD relationship.  Her reality will be persistently different from yours.  You're going to need help maintaining your own sense of reality.  Part of this will be your inner values and strength.  But you'll need external references.  We can help with that.  It will also be good if you can develop a couple of in-person sources of support who can keep you grounded in reality (though you'll have to pick carefully as some folks will have overly simplistic advice or advice that doesn't ring true with how you want to handle the situation).

OK, so this is going to be a bumpy ride.  She's not going to all of a sudden agree with you or thank you for fixing everything.  You'll know your efforts are being successful if you start to see some reduction in the drama level.  If you realize points in time where you would have made things worse, but with new skills have been able to avoid digging the hole deeper.

Let me say again, I totally understand living with someone who has an answer for everything that makes it appear as if it is all your fault.  It can be crazy making.

One of the tricks is to look past the "nasty package" that her feedback comes in and look for the grain of truth -- what is her primary emotion?  The problem is not the problem.  It's not what she's talking about, she likely is often upset by things she can't articulate.  Does that make sense?

WW

Last week, I got yelled at for asking him what he wants to eat for dinner.  He decided to go off, and waste energy on a 15-minute tirade about how it' a waste of time since he's not cooking, I should just pick and stop bother him etc.

Was he REALLY upset about being asked a polite question "What would you like?"

I don't think so.  Knowing him as well as I do, he was really upset over:

-Gaining weight from comfort eating
-This drove up his A1C a bit
-Depression
-Missing work due to physical ailments and yes depression
-The fact I had to hire a guy to mo for us - emphasizes that he does no year work and I was too ill to do it.  Embarrassed him, made him feel emasculated. 
-The fact I had friends offering to drive me to my MRI - emphasizes that he does not drive (he can) or know his way around, and chooses not to learn his way around.  Made him feel like I see him as unreliable.  (Well, if I cant rely on him to get me to a doctor in the event I cant/should not drive and cannot navigate for him, he's not.)
-The fact he knows and cannot hide that I do all housework, all cooking, all errands plus work the same 40 hours he does

Instead of seeing he can actually DO something about several, if not all, of the items above, he simmers, keeps it in, and then when the teapot is full lashes out.

You see, I kinda think inside, they feel pretty horrible.  Just think how it must feel to see everything int he world as negative, and the person closest to you as out to hurt you.  (You KNOW how this feels - she is trying to force her feelings onto you and blame you for them).

To process how bad they feel, I really think a pwBPD likes to make YOU feel as bad as they do.  I think for them, there is no greater validation for bad feelings than forcing you to feel bad, too, even if it means irrational revisionist history, mental gymnastics, etc.

You need to find ways to remain grounded, to not let her feeling-based version of reality warp or become yours.  That's one good thing about posting in here, - it is a "safe" journal of sorts as well as a community for support.

I also usually only come here at work - it's the safest for me.

Raiano18, welcome. Obviously, I’m sure you wish you didn’t have to be here. But, you are. I have been on the BPD awareness train for about a year now. I always knew something wasn’t right (horribly wrong), but it all came to a head last summer. That is when the violence really escalated from my wife. It is also when I heard the BPD acronym for the first time. So, I am right there with you and wish you much peace.

Whether you love her or not, you have recognized that you cannot go on like this any longer. You also have this lovely child you must care for and protect. Also, do not discount your relationship with your family. You need it and there is nothing to be ashamed of to keep that relationship intact.

Purely speaking from my experience, once this violence rears its ugly head, it only escalates from there. Here is what I did after talking with a therapist and others on this site:

-   Get some sort of recording device ready. You need to be able to collect evidence if / when she flies off the handle (which you probably recognize will happen). For me, it was downloading one of those recording apps to my phone and having the button available on the start-up screen.
-   Also, start journaling all the bizarre and violent behavior. This will be good on numerous grounds for you. You might need it for your safety and protection. At the same time, it is helpful to look back on what has occurred even if you are able to reconcile. Even if you are the only one viewing it, it helps to get this out and documented.
-   Have your mother or other family members witnessed bizarre / irrational behavior? If so, discretely ask them if they wouldn’t mind keeping a log as well. This isn’t even something you have to ever see or actively discuss.
-   If you have not already done so, speak with an attorney. Understand what might have to occur should you need to quickly extricate yourself from the situation. If you do have to quickly leave, do you intend to take your child with you? That is also something you need to work out.
-   You might even consider calling some of the domestic violence hotlines.
-   Have a plan ready if you ever have to quickly leave.

While I do not know your wife, there are many, many men here who have seen the rage and violence you may be experiencing. When my wife was in her worst fits of rage, I could see it in her eyes. It was like nothing I have ever seen before. Her eyes went dark. Thankfully, the fits of rage seem to have subsided – at least for now. But, as a word of warning, I am always concerned and frightened that the rage and violence could easily return. I point out the “man experiencing violence” issue because there was one marriage counselor (mistake) we went to early on that seemed to discount my story. It’s okay to be a man and also know that violence is wrong. You should not have to “take it”. I will unabashedly say that there is NEVER an excuse for perpetrating violence in the home.

No one here is going to be able to answer “should I leave her/him”. That’s entirely your choice and decision. Only you can make that final call. I would also be cautious of anyone who can quickly answer that question; especially given the rather limited amount of information we have.

Does this explain why you feel this way?


This is the terminal stage in a relationship... .it takes a real effort to break through this... .but to survive you must.

One thing about SET and validation -- you have to feel empathy for it to work.

People are very good at detecting intention. People with BPD are exceptional at it. I notice my BPD loved is very astute and often inaccurate about emotions I'm having.

If you are low on empathy for your wife (which wouldn't be surprising), then validation and SET can come across as flat. She's listening to emotions. The words are just containers for emotion.

Plus, it takes some vulnerability to have empathy and that's risky -- you were just attacked.

Try to instead have empathy for yourself right now. You need to come first.

She's giving you the silent treatment right now, and that's excruciating after you did a whole bunch of things to make her happy. For no reason, she isn't saying a word. No kiss, no hug, nothing.

See if you can find compassion for what you're going through. Just you, never mind about what she's doing. The silent treatment can be a terrible place to be when you need something from her, so use it instead to be an opportunity to give something to yourself.

You have to remember what it feels like to feel good and then start doing the stuff that feels that way. You don't need to announce it to her, or ask her permission. Just start finding your way back to yourself. It can be as subtle as a thought.

You deserve to feel respected and loved and treated well. What is something you can do for yourself that makes you feel worthy?

For me, it was stuff like choosing to hang out with a bunch of puppies, to remind myself what it felt like being happy.  :)

You probably have some things like that, and it might take some effort to remember, or create new ones.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I wish I had more time to spend on here, so I could reply to each and everyone of you. Sadly, it's getting worse. Yesterday she went manic, called me every name in the book, told me I made her want to kill herself, told me she hopes I rot in hell. Why? I have no clue. Nothing happened. She just went off. She also said she was going to stay with her grandma. So, instead of putting up a fight, after I was broken down... .once again... .I said "ok" and she left. Well, less than 3 hours later, she came back. Now today, we discussed going to counseling, and all of her stuff she took yesterday is back in its original spot. Im losing my mind here.

raiano18, have you thought about just simply going to counseling yourself? You might find that far more beneficial than any type of couples counseling today. From what you say, your SO is disregulating (sp?) horribly. Couples counseling is largely for two people who are on a similar (or, remotely similar) emotional footing. Your SO doesn't sound like she is there.

As many on this site will tell you, couples counseling can be a complete waste of time for those in with a BPD SO. Also, certainly don't go into couples counseling thinking that your SO will somehow see the light. It's extremely unlikely that the counseling will go that way. Right now, you need to focus on yourself and your responses.

Also, the "i'm leaving" over and over is a favorite tactic of the pwBPD. You really have to learn to become desensitized to it. My wife used to always proclaim "I'm leaving" or "I'm getting a divorce, I mean it." Before learning more about BPD, I used to beg her to change her mind. But, I really flipped it on its head with the help of a trained therapist (for me, not couples). I began to just dispassionately say "I'm sorry to hear that.". Once, she made a big deal about "where are my suitcases? I'm packing to leave you right now." Of course, she knew darn well where the suitcases were. So, I simply responded "have you tried the upstairs closet. I think they are in there." At the end of the day, the pwBPD has to learn to be responsible for their own actions.

Support is really helpful, raiano18. many people came here exactly as you and are in a better place now.

I'm all for marriage counseling. It's important to know, however, that more than 50% of it fails. Members here can coach you on how to avoid the mistakes the crash it.

We're here when you want the help.  :)

Threats of suicide to gain an upper hand in a relationship are very much an abusive tactic. So is the silent treatment. Also, you have been physically hit.

Excellent article from the National Domestic Violence Hotline: www.thehotline.org/2014/08/01/why-we-dont-recommend-couples-counseling-for-abusive-relationships/

Why We Don’t Recommend Couples Counseling for Abusive Relationships

"In order for couples counseling to be successful, both partners must be willing to take responsibility for their actions and make adjustments to their behavior. Abusive people want all of the power and control in the relationship and will focus on maintaining that imbalance, even if it means continuing unhealthy and hurtful behavior patterns. Many callers to the Hotline have related stories of trying and “failing” at couples counseling because of an abusive partner’s focus on manipulating the sessions to place blame, minimize the abuse, and attempt to win over the therapist to their side. If the therapist tries to hold the abusive partner accountable for these tactics, they will often refuse to attend further sessions and may even forbid their partner to see the “biased” therapist again. The abusive partner may even choose to escalate the abuse because they feel their power and control was threatened."

From that Hotline article I just posted: "Additionally, a therapist may not be aware that abuse is present and inadvertently encourage the abuse to continue or escalate."

This was exactly my experience. This is why personal counseling is such a good idea for you right now.

I am going to counseling alone as well. Last week was my first session, and I go again today. She was jealous of my counselor (that is 20 years older than me, married with a family) and today she tried to get me to cancel my appointment and reschedule on a day she could go. After everything that happened yesterday (much much more than I put into words), I went to the bank and took out most of our money, because im scared she'll spend it all, or take it out and keep if I leave her. So, she flipped out on me and told how how rude and arrogant I have been towards her and how I've been on a power trip lately. I simply replied with "Im sorry" and she never replied. I feel like im drowning.

That is typically what one does right before filing for divorce. 

What? Take the money out of the bank? I told her I did it because I have to pay $170 today and the rest for our rent. Now shes irate and I wish I would've just never done it. Even though I feel like it was the best choice.

I'm sorry, I though you took the family savings... .I misread that.

Its ok! No problem. I took out $300 total. $110 for a bill and $60 for something else, and the rest for rent. She flipped out though saying I didn't allow her to have MY money, and I've changed so much. Im doing it to protect myself, because yesterday she was leaving me. The bank account is in her name. If she wanted to she could take all of the money and keep it for herself.

She is just an open sore and looking for any excuse to lash out. 

I'm sorry if I missed it, but was there an initial trigger t this string of days?  Was the onset of the rages and insults sudden, or did it creep up on you till you are in fight or flight most of the time? 

Last week went better than usual, but it crept up on me, very slowly. This past weekend she was miserable and because I didn’t care (which I did) she lashed out at me. If I ask what’s wrong it starts a fight, if I ignore it it starts a fight. It’s a never ending battle

Switching gears a little bit, how do the two of you balance child care responsibilities?  :)o you both work?  

You said she is possessive of the baby.  Are you able to participate with baby care tasks, like feeding, changing diapers, putting to sleep, etc.?

WW

We both work. We both feed, change, bathe and dress the baby. Last night she was being posessive, she took the baby shopping all day while I was at work and wouldn’t let me hold her when she got home. But she tells me I’m on a power trip.

That's fantastic that you're able to be that involved in child care.  Do everything you can, but as you know, don't get in a struggle with her, or she'll get more protective.  Some members have even more interference with their parenting, so the fact that you're able to be involved is a great thing for your baby and you.  Also, the fact that you're stepping up and contributing to the care of a small baby is excellent  |iiii

Did you have a chance to read the link that Skip provided above on the fourth stage of relationship breakdown?  When someone is coming at you with accusations and insults, it is super easy to find yourself stonewalling.  It's a form of self protection that comes naturally.  It helped me to understand that the hurtful speech was a product of the illness -- that made it feel less personal.

Have you set a wedding date yet, or is the engagement open-ended?

WW

I have not had a chance, hopefully sometime today i'll have time. Like I said before, I only can be on here at work or at home when she is working. We don't have a date officially set, sometime next summer. My family is (sadly) hoping I don't stay with her. Which I understand, and they support me with whatever decision I make.

Families can be like that - they want to help, and see the ending of the relationship as the easiest solution and best outcome as it will remove her from your life... .BUT, you have a child together, and so no, even if you two split, she will always be a part of your life as long as you have contact with your child.  People like neat, tidy solutions that aren't messy, and don't involve recurrent drama.  So, the advice and hope that you will leave her is just going to be there. 

So - there's that. 

Also, families and friends can't really fathom how we can stay - they don't see the GOOD days, the times we connect, the parts that make leaving hard.  Dr. Banner is in there, somewhere, even when the Hulk has come out to smash.  And if you love one, the other is part of the package.  The goal is to make the Hulk come out less and less, and stay out for shorter times. 

Is the fact there is no date set any sort of trigger?  Like she's more afraid you will abandon her? 

My family just wants me to be happy. When I explain to them how there ARE good times, they still don't encourage me to stay, but I also remind them that they HAVE NO CLUE what im going through. My parents have been together since 2 years before I was born. They never had another partner before that either. They don't have the best marriage, but they both work, have 3 kids together, and make life happy and good for each other. They know what im going through (not my emotions) but they have no idea how I feel. No one does (in my opinion) unless they're or have been in a BPD relationship, or some other type of psychologically/physically abusive relationship. My aunt was in a very similar situation with a man for 10 years, had 2 kids together, he took her family, friends, and everything from her, even moved her to another stae. After 10 years, she took the kids, divorced him and went back home. She knows how I feel, she understand why I don't just leave, especially being a parent. I don't think not having a specific date is a trigger for her. She has never mentioned anything about it, but no matter how much she "hates me" or "is leaving me" she ALWAYS tells people "next summer". DOES SHE FEEL REGRET? That's one thing that boggles my mind. The other day she hated me, she was leaving me, she hoped I burned in hell, but then yesterday was upset because I didn't think she was coming to my family picnic for the 4th of July. WHY WOULD I WANT HER TO?

When you opened this thread a week or so ago, it felt like things were only getting worse.  Does it still feel that way?  What's weighing most heavily on you now?

WW

Since Wednesday things have improved. She hasn’t lashed out, we’ve been getting along like we used to, having fun and laughing, but I know this is too good to be true. Seems like every weekend something happens. Right now I’m mostly bothered by the things she said to me last Monday/Tuesday. Really hurt me and the feeling won’t ever go away, but then she flips it and says it’s my fault.

Yes, the good times you are having now are real.  Enjoy them.  And yes, there will be another down cycle.  Your goal is not to save tranquility at all costs, just to do 100% of your 50% (plus extra out of goodwill, but you can't own total responsibility).

There's a huge temptation to just enjoy the calm times and forget about all the bad stuff, but remember, the calm times are the time to make progress.  That's when you study the tools, that's when you invest in goodwill between you, that's when you may occasionally have opportunities with her to discuss improving the relationship.

So, get ready for the next relationship challenge, and try to pick up a tool or two.  Are there certain topics or situations that most often send you two into a down cycle?  Or a recent incident that started a down cycle that you'd like to know how to handle better?

WW

The main issue going on right now is that she HATES my mother. My mom hasn't done anything, but she is totally 100% against her and wants me to choose between the two of them, and I refuse to. It makes her angry that I don't choose her, but I have no reason to! So, that sets her off easily. I try to not speak about my mother around her, and only see her when my fiancé is busy or not home. She also wont let my mother watch our 2 month old baby (for unknown reasons) and that makes me mad and hurts my mom.

What does she say is the reason she is upset with your mom?

Just going to toss out my hypothesis and ask if you can be mindful of seeing if it's close.

She was freaking out on you in this recent escalation because she anticipated spending the 4th with your family, and with a person, she sees (IMO) as competition and as someone she has painted black - you mom.  Since she lacks the emotional skills to communicate that your mom makes her feel like less (not your mom's fault - it just seems pretty common for BPD women to especially feel insecure about their mothers in law), she acted out instead, causing a lot of drama and upset to make you feel as distraught as she feels when she thinks of your mom, and to try to force you do disown your mom for her own comfort.  I think at least one other fairly current poster has made similar comments about "pick your mother or me" sentiments.  Your mom is the most important woman next to her.  BPD makes her fear you will abandon her.  She will target your mom as the cause of any ideas or reasons to abandon her because she can't take responsibility for her own actions being a cause. 

Anyway - from now on, try to look for things that trigger her, like any upcoming birthdays or other events where your mom may join you, or she may feel on display for your family (read that as "judged".  Again, this is not saying anything about your family themselves, but your SO's perception OF your family. 

Reality - she treats you like a pwBPD treats people.  So you family says it may be good to leave her

Her reality - your family hates her and just tells you to leave her because they are mean and don't like her for no reason at all, and therefore she has to act out on you to make you change and drop them in favor of her. 

I find that knowing that H WILL get close to dysregulation before events, before family birthdays and holidays or any other gatherings, be it a high school reunion, even though it's his OWN family (mine is out of the picture), helps me try to be on my toes and not on eggshells - I don't think that statement is totally impossible. 

Thank you for that! You clarified everything I was thinking. We are going to couples counseling today... .im a little nervous. I don't plan on bringing up BPD, but Im so scared shes going to flip everything and make ME look like thr problem of our entire relationship. Things that she has said that stuck in my head are "You made me feel like trash for the past 2 months" "You made me want to wreck my car yesterday" "I hope you burn in hell" "I hate you" "You're the reason im depressed". So many outrageous statements that boggled my mind. I have done everything to make her happy, especially during her pregnancy, but somehow I made her feel "like trash".

this may well happen. anticipate it. when a couple enters counseling, it is often with the motivation to vent, to get the counselor to see their side (if not join it), and to fix the other person. a good counselor expects and anticipates this as well.

if it happens, try to listen rather than react, JADE, defend yourself, because those will escalate the conflict. sometimes we all have to vent a bit before we are ready to problem solve or to look inward at what we are responsible for. play the long game. agreeing to get counseling is a positive step/development.

try to let the counselor mediate this if it happens. if the counselor asks for your perspective, thats your turn. be honest. but try to avoid defending yourself too much, or getting the counselor to see that it is she with the problem... .otherwise youre likely to both emerge deeply frustrated.

Im mainly scared shes going to convince the counselor that im the problem, and then it turn into a blow up. I plan to be honest. Its not even about my mom anymore (even though that is her biggest problem). My issue is the fact that I cant do anything right. I try my hardest to make her happy, but then im the reason for her depression. I know this is not actually true, because if it was, she would've left by now. Honestly, if it wasn't for me, she would have probably destroyed someone elses life and been left alone. I stuck by her through SO MUCH. The name calling, the accusations, the anxiety, the depression, the lies, and so much more. I made us work on it, but I've had enough. I know I've had enough when I look at her and feel nothing. I have no more fight left in me. Sadly, if she wants to leave... .im not stopping her. She left for 3 hours at the most, and after I didn't beg for her to come back, she was hurt that I didn't, and came back anyways. Im not the problem. I kind of wish I was the problem so I could FIX THIS.

Oh, and last night after 2 weeks I was hoping to have sex, and she wouldn't, so I was a little upset (obviously) and she said "you cant get mad at anyone but yourself when you don't like a situation youre in if youre the one who walked yourself into it. If you cause your own problems, you face the consequences, you don't just don't continue to get what you want" So, now she wont have sex with me because I am the bad guy. Makes me laugh a little. It should be the other way around, but I am a guy  :)

You don't make her feel like trash.  SHE makes herself feel like trash and needs to blame you for it.

I'd not mention BPD, not in front of her at least.  Some therapists can be a lot of help but aren't experts in it.  Is there any chance you might be able to swing both of you having a few moments to talk in private, at the beginning or end?   I think this might be more beneficial to you at least, to give you a free space (like here) to talk things out. 

And yes, listen.  Try to avoid JADEing or invalidating. 

The place we are going is the same place I've been going to for therapy alone. It is a different therapist though. My therapist told me she could talk to the couples counselor about some of my issues, but I don't know if she has yet. She will just turn me into the bad guy, as always. I cant already foresee tonight as being a bad night, unless we don't get into too much today.

How did things go last night?

We went to counseling and didn't talk too much about our problems. More about our relationship, from the beginning. He asked what caused us to go and her reply was "his mom" and I said "theres a lot more to it... ". We had a great day yesterday, and the last night she all of a sudden stopped talking to me, wouldn't tell me what was wrong, or what I did, but went completely silent. Still have no idea what happened.

How did you respond when she went silent?

I tried talking to her and asked what was wrong, multiple times. She now just text me and said I followed some girl on twitter (who is my cousin) and wants to know why I followed her... .

Can you see it for what it is? It's about her feelings. She feels insecure, and is able to find facts (not facts) to back up those feelings.

Often, the feelings were there first. The "action" or whatever you did presented an opportunity to land the feelings somewhere "out there." She has a hard time recognizing that the feelings are coming from her.

Did you text back a response?

She looks for anything to justify me being (unfaithful). This isn't the first time, or even the 10th time! I text back and said it was my cousin and I have no reason to want or need anyone else. Now she's ok... .for now... .

I am looking to fix the issues with her and my mom. Any ideas/suggestions?

In laws are really hard for BPD sufferers, it seems.

Want to fire up a new thread about that specifically? It will likely draw responses from people who are familiar with that exact dynamic.

This is really a great point.

Instead of looking inwards for why she feels insecure, she looks outwards to find a reason.  Instead of owning that she has poor self-esteem and needs validation supplied from others, she looks for excuses for being upset, feeling like you're going to leave her, and then goes off on those things as if they are facts.

Sadly, to "fix" things with your mom you may need to give your om a crash course in BPD validation.  Your mom would need to work on being an ally to your GF, not an enemy, without triangulating against you. 

Jealousy - very common.  They FEEL you plan to leave them.  So obviously you must be cheating for them to feel this way.  Even if you work to be 100% open, that fear is in there.  H is the one who was likely to cheat, but he always accuses me of it when he hits certain moods.  I find the best I can do in these cases is show, not tell, that I care and am not a cheat.  hard to explain, not easy to do, but it's all I can really suggest.