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Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Conflicted About Continuing, Divorcing/Custody, Co-parenting => Topic started by: snowglobe on September 17, 2018, 09:43:59 PM



Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 17, 2018, 09:43:59 PM
Moderation Note:  this thread was split from https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329162.0;all

Crisis mode:
Things are out of control. I came with him to “ work place”, to take the crazy out of the house and spare the kids. We drove in silence as he was spinning out of control. Saying “you are married to the house”, go and f it.
When we arrived to work place he slept on the couch, although there is a spare bedroom here. I slept in “our bed”, in the morning he was rude and abrupt. Came from work early, and stayed to himself. I found cocaine in his backpack while putting it away, so he has come “prepared”. He isn’t doing it, as he “snaps out of BPD psychosis” immediately after the ingestion. I’m one hundred percent certain that he is still fighting/working himself up to doing it. He was watching the news and discovered that today Israeli forced took down one of his country of origin’s plane, taking many lives. He went on the rant “kill the Jews, I would give up my life to eliminate all Jews from the face of the earth, how could I have married one?”. I put in the earplugs and went to study. Every time he would emerge from bedroom I would say something nice/friendly and short, to keep the window open for him to self correct. In return I heard:” I hate the sound of your voice, I don’t want to hear it for the rest of my life. Go file a divorce, go find a boyfriend, you are diluginal and have been living in alternative reality for two weeks”. Go away, go home, I can’t stand you. I hate you, I wish I never had to see you. You are married to the house.
We are in full blown up psychosis mode, with wide unseeing eyes and dilated pupils.
I’m secretly wishing for him to do the cocaine so he can get it over with. I also let my friend know, and asked her to check in with me in the morning. He is in another room, on the couch getting ready to sleep


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: AskingWhy on September 18, 2018, 12:20:30 AM
Crisis mode:
Things are out of control. I came with him to “ work place”, to take the crazy out of the house and spare the kids. We drove in silence as he was spinning out of control. Saying “you are married to the house”, go and f it.
When we arrived to work place he slept on the couch, although there is a spare bedroom here. I slept in “our bed”, in the morning he was rude and abrupt. Came from work early, and stayed to himself. I found cocaine in his backpack while putting it away, so he has come “prepared”. He isn’t doing it, as he “snaps out of BPD psychosis” immediately after the ingestion. I’m one hundred percent certain that he is still fighting/working himself up to doing it. He was watching the news and discovered that today Israeli forced took down one of his country of origin’s plane, taking many lives. He went on the rant “kill the Jews, I would give up my life to eliminate all Jews from the face of the earth, how could I have married one?”. I put in the earplugs and went to study. Every time he would emerge from bedroom I would say something nice/friendly and short, to keep the window open for him to self correct. In return I heard:” I hate the sound of your voice, I don’t want to hear it for the rest of my life. Go file a divorce, go find a boyfriend, you are diluginal and have been living in alternative reality for two weeks”. Go away, go home, I can’t stand you. I hate you, I wish I never had to see you. You are married to the house.
We are in full blown up psychosis mode, with wide unseeing eyes and dilated pupils.
I’m secretly wishing for him to do the cocaine so he can get it over with. I also let my friend know, and asked her to check in with me in the morning. He is in another room, on the couch getting ready to sleep

Snowglobe, first of all hugs for your going through all of this.  

Being devalued as you are is painful beyond anything.  The comment about Jews is also a projection.  

The cocaine appears to be an escape (most BPDs hate themselves) or self-medicating.  

I understand the depth of sadness and uncertainty you are feeling now.  My uBPD/uNPD H dysregulated last night on the eve of an important business trip.  He upended furniture and slammed doors, hollered at me, scared the pets and then went to sleep on the couch, his time-honored way of letting me know he hates me by withholding affection and the silent treatment.

The uncertainty of waiting is horrific.  One of the things I am learning is not to take H's behaviour personally.  This is the hardest thing I have had to do with my H.

Please let us know the outcome.

   


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Notwendy on September 18, 2018, 05:01:36 AM
Do you fear for your own safety when he says things like he'd give his life to eliminate all the Jews?  That includes you and your children.

What would happen if- when he says "leave, go home, I hate you" if you did as he says? This is a natural consequence. If someone tells me to go away, they hate me, I would probably leave them alone.

I know you fear for his safety when he is like this and feel he is talking out of his mind, but a natural consequence of a threat is to stay away from it.  

I don't mean to raise ideas that you don't want to do- I know you don't want him to hurt himself and you are clear about not intervening with his lifestyle and choices due to a possible revenge action on your family's support, but I don't see him having any incentive to change when he gets to do and say whatever he wants without any consequences to that. These are just examples of some consequences.


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 18, 2018, 08:26:35 AM
@Askingwhy,
I am too sorry you are being denied the love and affection I’m sure you deserve. With my unpdh it gets really ugly, he breaks the relationships up and is too sick to mend them back together. I’ve been his emotional caregiver since I was 17 years old and I’m facing the dead end.


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 18, 2018, 08:35:25 AM
Do you fear for your own safety when he says things like he'd give his life to eliminate all the Jews?  That includes you and your children.

What would happen if- when he says "leave, go home, I hate you" if you did as he says? This is a natural consequence. If someone tells me to go away, they hate me, I would probably leave them alone.

I know you fear for his safety when he is like this and feel he is talking out of his mind, but a natural consequence of a threat is to stay away from it.  

I don't mean to raise ideas that you don't want to do- I know you don't want him to hurt himself and you are clear about not intervening with his lifestyle and choices due to a possible revenge action on your family's support, but I don't see him having any incentive to change when he gets to do and say whatever he wants without any consequences to that. These are just examples of some consequences.
I was fearing for my safety last night and he was bewildered and trembling with hate and rage. Every time I adress him it’s “get the f out, f you, F off, I don’t speak Jewish?. I can’t stand you, you stopped existing for me”. This episode, by far is the scariest and longest I’ve witnessed. He is on a full elimination mode, as anything that has to do with me is a plague and needs to be cleansed out.
I though of leaving, but what if it becomes a pattern? He disregulates, runs me out, I leave, he comes down?. This rollercoaster is taking the toll on me. I can’t study, my memory is impacted, I can’t think straight. Not Wendy, I never saw so much hate coming from a person in my direction. It’s very frightening.
When he was leaving for work, I quirked: “have a good day, let me know when you will be driving back, I will throw things on the bbq.”
To which he replied:” f you, stop thinking about me, I will never call you, keep up with this nice s$&t, I wAbt to see how long you will last”.
Do you all think I should leave?


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Cat Familiar on September 18, 2018, 10:29:12 AM
Snowglobe,
His behavior toward you is toxic. I understand that you're very accustomed to him behaving like this since you've been his emotional support since you were 17. You have a trauma bond with him.

But now he's turning up the volume. He's already physically assaulted you, nearly damaging your eyesight irreparably. Thankfully you recovered with time, but it seems that your wellbeing is in peril.

He's telling you that he doesn't want you there. That seems like a very clear message.

Please take care of yourself. You need to be a mother to your children.

 
Cat


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 18, 2018, 10:58:03 AM
Snowglobe,
His behavior toward you is toxic. I understand that you're very accustomed to him behaving like this since you've been his emotional support since you were 17. You have a trauma bond with him.

But now he's turning up the volume. He's already physically assaulted you, nearly damaging your eyesight irreparably. Thankfully you recovered with time, but it seems that your wellbeing is in peril.

He's telling you that he doesn't want you there. That seems like a very clear message.

Please take care of yourself. You need to be a mother to your children.

 
Cat
Cat,
I called my parents, since they have been first hand witness to the entire duration of these relationships. My dad asked me to stay as long as I can, he reminded me of an identical crisis last year, and then spontaneous recovery out of a blue. He told me that he is afraid that he will not come back if I leave back home. Then my mom called back and reminded me of very similar incidents that happen about 2s a year. They are lost for words as to what to say. I, myself feel lost, unsure what the right next step is... .
if I leave he is very highly likely will be ingesting cocaine, what if he dies? He isn’t a young man... .
he got me into catatonic state myself, I feel burned out and can’t complete a simple task. He is toxic


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Cat Familiar on September 18, 2018, 11:03:22 AM
Snowglobe,
You're in a very tough place. You fear that if you leave, he might OD on cocaine. He's being extremely verbally abusive to you; it's gotten you to a point where you're nearly incapacitated. Your parents remind you that this is a pattern he's repeated before and then he suddenly returned to normal.

If you had more financial security for yourself and your children, would you still want to endure being with him when he's in this condition?

Cat


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: sweetheart on September 18, 2018, 11:15:15 AM
Hi dk,

I want to echo Cats advice to focus on you and your children.
The things you have outlined happening in your home with your husband place you in a very precarious situation as a parent.

I am unclear how old your children are, or whether they are in the house, but you run the risk of having your ability to take care of their emotional well-being called into question should anybody question your h's current behaviour.

I understand how hard it can be to prioritise ourselves and our emotional well-being when we have been enmeshed in a relationship like yours for so long. Everything in the relationship becomes blurry and messy and chaotic and we are constantly reacting and hypervigilant. The ability to be objective and proactive is lost.

What sort of plans do you have in place, or could you quickly put in place to safeguard you and your children so that exposure to the type of dysregulated behaviour you describe can be minimised?

What does your day look like, how are your family schedules organised?
 Bring your focus back to you and away from your husband.
 Focus on the practicalities of your day; school runs, meals, shopping, housework. Take the emotion out of your immediate vicinity so that you can regroup and catch your breath.

Do you have a Safety Plan in place?




Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 18, 2018, 11:58:37 AM
Snowglobe,
You're in a very tough place. You fear that if you leave, he might OD on cocaine. He's being extremely verbally abusive to you; it's gotten you to a point where you're nearly incapacitated. Your parents remind you that this is a pattern he's repeated before and then he suddenly returned to normal.

If you had more financial security for yourself and your children, would you still want to endure being with him when he's in this condition?

Cat
Absolutely not, Cat!
I would let be chips fall where they may and make a decision with my own best interest at heart.
Right now I’m doing the impossible- managing a very mentally ill person with no right medication, tools or support. I NEED HELP MYSELF to just get through the day in this suffocating environment. I called center for mental health and addiction and left a message to a support worker. I hope to hear from them soon. Facing the facts, it’s my own addiction to drama, caretaking and dreadful fear of letting my kids down that is holding me in this deadly lock. He isn’t getting better and I’m not being effective. There are many people, including my children and my parents that are circulating on this orbit. My mom called me and cried begging me not to share anything with them. Her blood pressure went up and she is distressed. Telling me that she isn’t able to care for my children in this state. And also an ultimatum- should I leave him, I’m on my own. Her and my step dad will check out. The reason she says that is - she is getting a salary from my uBPDh in a substantial amount for caring for the children. What’s more- my father is employed with my brother in law (uBPDh’s brother). They both know, that should I leave, their comfortable life style will be over. They don’t want to go out into the “real world” working hard and fending for themselves. Sure it’s easier to for them to pretend nothing is happening when most of his BPD behaviours are out of their sight.
Cat, I need help, and I don’t know which way to turn. In a perfect world uBPDh would have to live with the consequences of his actions. In a real world, any decision that I will make will impact many lives. I’m crushing under fear, obligation and guilt


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 18, 2018, 12:02:50 PM
Hi dk,

I want to echo Cats advice to focus on you and your children.
The things you have outlined happening in your home with your husband place you in a very precarious situation as a parent.

I am unclear how old your children are, or whether they are in the house, but you run the risk of having your ability to take care of their emotional well-being called into question should anybody question your h's current behaviour.

I understand how hard it can be to prioritise ourselves and our emotional well-being when we have been enmeshed in a relationship like yours for so long. Everything in the relationship becomes blurry and messy and chaotic and we are constantly reacting and hypervigilant. The ability to be objective and proactive is lost.

What sort of plans do you have in place, or could you quickly put in place to safeguard you and your children so that exposure to the type of dysregulated behaviour you describe can be minimised?

What does your day look like, how are your family schedules organised?
 Bring your focus back to you and away from your husband.
 Focus on the practicalities of your day; school runs, meals, shopping, housework. Take the emotion out of your immediate vicinity so that you can regroup and catch your breath.

Do you have a Safety Plan in place?



Dear Seetheart,
My children are 5 hrs away, at home with my parents. I’m in another city, where my uBPDh works. I’ve been accompanying him to “work” for over a year now.
I don’t have any safeguarding in place... .
I will put on small tasks and try to stick to them, anxious for the evening... .


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: formflier on September 18, 2018, 01:55:38 PM
. @Ff, legally I can’t do anything, he is their father and if he chooses not to listen to the advices of s11 medical team, he can’t be forced.  

This may or may not be true.

This needs to all be laid out... .without holding anything back... .anything... .to your sons care team.  Then, let them explain if this rises to the level of something that "can be forced".

Just like you (at this point) can't "force" your hubby to comply... he can't "force" you to ignore your sons medical team or not speak to them.

It may be that there is something here that can be legally "forced"

It may be that this doesn't rise to the level where it can be "forced".

There is ONLY one way to find out.  I think you need to do this... .find out

Now... the video game thing may be something your sons team thinks is "not best" but they wouldn't pitch a fit over, OR... .it could be really really bad.  Anything further I would say is complete speculation... .

Let the experts give you their full and unbiased judgment.  In order to do that, they need to have all the information that YOU have.

FF



Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Notwendy on September 18, 2018, 02:41:19 PM
I'm disheartened to learn that your parents know you are in an abusive situation and yet, want you to stay for their own benefit. Your mother's statement that if you leave you are on your own is looking out for herself, not for you.

It seems that as long as you need to spend time away from your children managing your dysfunctional H, they have a job and a roof over their heads- so they benefit from this situation.

I am so sorry to see you in this predicament.


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Notwendy on September 18, 2018, 03:07:25 PM
I am glad this is a safe place for you to talk about your situation. Please keep in mind that while posters may make suggestions or present the situation in different ways, no matter what you do, it is good that you can post here- whether or not you do any of the suggestions.

What I don't want to see is you to isolate yourself. Posting here, connecting with people is a good thing. I don't know what you will choose to do, but please continue to post.
 

I truly feel for you in this dilemma. I hope and pray that you find a solution to the situation that you can make peace with.


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 18, 2018, 04:15:24 PM
@ff,
Thank you for coming back and posting here. I missed your guidance.
Once I’m back home I will have a team meeting with them to come clean, although they have seen many things, including his ignited tantrum, as you pointed out, it’s not a full picture. Meanwhile, all I can really hope for, is that he will relapse soon. At least it will be over. He has the stash waiting for him. He is just looking for something to tip him over. On the plus side, at least I know my children are far removed from this. He doesn’t call, or interact with them in any way when he is away. So it’s not their reality.


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 18, 2018, 04:22:02 PM
I'm disheartened to learn that your parents know you are in an abusive situation and yet, want you to stay for their own benefit. Your mother's statement that if you leave you are on your own is looking out for herself, not for you.

It seems that as long as you need to spend time away from your children managing your dysfunctional H, they have a job and a roof over their heads- so they benefit from this situation.

I am so sorry to see you in this predicament.
There are many parts to this moving vehicle- they have a condo that still has an outstanding mortgage on. As long as they live with me, their condo is rented out and they are making the payments towards the mortgage. If they were to move out, they wouldn’t be able to have such comfortable lifestyle or keep the condo. Perhaps downsizing?
My mom hated “hard labour”, she would whine every day and be miserable. Being an immigrant, she never fully assimilated. The only job opportunities or options are manual labour. Which she considered “below her”. I can’t really claim I’m being exploited. The arrangement comes from mutual benefit. She gets to stay home and keep her dignity, although she is pretty young, in her mid 50s. My kids will be older soon, what will she do then? With not many skills or experience and still a long life ahead of her.
Her mantra to me is:” you have chosen him, now deal with the consequences”. What’s painful for me, is that I’m supposed to pretend as if nothing is going on, for the sake of her keeping her equilibrium.


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 18, 2018, 04:24:51 PM
I am glad this is a safe place for you to talk about your situation. Please keep in mind that while posters may make suggestions or present the situation in different ways, no matter what you do, it is good that you can post here- whether or not you do any of the suggestions.

What I don't want to see is you to isolate yourself. Posting here, connecting with people is a good thing. I don't know what you will choose to do, but please continue to post.
 

I truly feel for you in this dilemma. I hope and pray that you find a solution to the situation that you can make peace with.
I hang on to each and every one of you for my dear life. It’s my lifeline and a source of validation. I know I’m not crazy. I spent going on 5 years in university in psychology department to know that I have dependency issues and traumas, and my uBPDh has BPD and npd. To each and one of you, THANK you! I have given me strength to believe that I can last another day.


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: formflier on September 18, 2018, 05:23:54 PM

Her mantra to me is:” you have chosen him, now deal with the consequences”. What’s painful for me, is that I’m supposed to pretend as if nothing is going on, for the sake of her keeping her equilibrium.

That advice cuts both ways. 

He chose you... .and can deal with those consequences.

There is a big picture thing here of who reacts to who.

Pause... think about that for a while.

He does stuff... .you scurry around and clean up... he does more stuff... .you scurry around and... (you get the picture).

What if... .you did stuff... .he flips out... .you continue on your path... .he flips out more (and then when he realizes you are choosing a "healthy" route... .things will get interesting.

While we can't predict the future, my understanding of history is that when you call his bluff... he folds.

FF


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 18, 2018, 05:44:40 PM
That advice cuts both ways. 

He chose you... .and can deal with those consequences.

There is a big picture thing here of who reacts to who.

Pause... think about that for a while.

He does stuff... .you scurry around and clean up... he does more stuff... .you scurry around and... (you get the picture).

What if... .you did stuff... .he flips out... .you continue on your path... .he flips out more (and then when he realizes you are choosing a "healthy" route... .things will get interesting.

While we can't predict the future, my understanding of history is that when you call his bluff... he folds.

FF
I had a traumatic experience earlier today. It has put things into perspective. I’m coming home to attend my classes and stay at home on Friday. I started a separate thread for my experience. Nothing puts things into perspective as when you loose something important. I had my wake up experience today. Thank G-d it weren’t my parents or my children. Lesson learnt, I’m great full there was a happy ending. In most cases in life we aren’t given this luxury


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Notwendy on September 19, 2018, 08:02:42 AM
Your mother's perspective sounds a bit like "Fiddler on the Roof" where in that culture, marriage was seen as both economic survival and a growing love that would develop. Yet in that culture, people were also expected to follow a standard of how to behave towards each other, and abuse is not condoned. Sadly, abuse can occur in all cultures. I doubt your mother or you expected this to happen in your marriage. I think her response is consistent with the reality that in her culture there were few options to deal with it and economic survival was a consideration.

The financial situation is that your parents are also dependent on your H. If you were to be at home all the time, he'd have no reason to pay them for child care. The reason he does is so that you can be with him at work being useful to him. Your parents are better off in this situation, and also your children are too- as he isn't around them as much and they are not exposed to his behavior.

With your H in control of your parents, I wonder if he doesn't also use this as power, and threaten to "fire" them. In this case, their situation isn't always stable. I think they are planning for their stability by paying off their mortgage while they stay with you. This is tangible property- if they own it ,they can live there or sell it. If your step father is also working, they may have some savings.

Your kids are getting older, but it will be some time before your son is off to college and if he still needs assistance due to his autism, ( he may live at home while attending college) your parents would be needed for some time still.

What makes this whole situation fearful for you is that the family- patents, kids, you- are financially dependent on an emotionally unstable person. No wonder you are fearful of his drug abuse and erratic behavior and making every effort to keep him working and stable. This is a real fear, but it is driving some behaviors on your part that may be perpetuating the dysfunction between you and your H.

Perhaps one way to look at this is not about trying to control your H's behavior but taking steps to address the fear- the survival fear- by turning some attention to your own studies, training and career. This may be a slow process as your H is basically paying your parents so you can be focused on him. Is it possible to take this in steps- maybe devote some time to taking a class, less time babysitting him. I'm thinking small steps as any step will likely rock the boat, so maybe rock in small waves- if you can.

Putting his back pack away? He's too old for that. School age kids are able to put their own backpacks away and why are you looking in it anyway? (I think I know the answer to that- fear there are drugs in there). Leave the backpack alone. He's been doing cocaine/drugs for years- that doesn't stop immediately. Policing his drug use puts you in a drama triangle with him and drives your fears. All you can do it control your part of this.

Your kids are getting older and one day they will be on their own. Your son may be fine on his own but there are also group homes for individuals with autism where people live together as adult room mates with some assistance. Your parents also are investing in their condo. There is a future ahead for you- and I hope you can start to take steps- even baby steps- towards carving out some financial independence for you- whether you stay married or not- so you can ease your survival fears.



Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 19, 2018, 08:45:15 AM
Your mother's perspective sounds a bit like "Fiddler on the Roof" where in that culture, marriage was seen as both economic survival and a growing love that would develop. Yet in that culture, people were also expected to follow a standard of how to behave towards each other, and abuse is not condoned. Sadly, abuse can occur in all cultures. I doubt your mother or you expected this to happen in your marriage. I think her response is consistent with the reality that in her culture there were few options to deal with it and economic survival was a consideration.

The financial situation is that your parents are also dependent on your H. If you were to be at home all the time, he'd have no reason to pay them for child care. The reason he does is so that you can be with him at work being useful to him. Your parents are better off in this situation, and also your children are too- as he isn't around them as much and they are not exposed to his behavior.

With your H in control of your parents, I wonder if he doesn't also use this as power, and threaten to "fire" them. In this case, their situation isn't always stable. I think they are planning for their stability by paying off their mortgage while they stay with you. This is tangible property- if they own it ,they can live there or sell it. If your step father is also working, they may have some savings.

Your kids are getting older, but it will be some time before your son is off to college and if he still needs assistance due to his autism, ( he may live at home while attending college) your parents would be needed for some time still.

What makes this whole situation fearful for you is that the family- patents, kids, you- are financially dependent on an emotionally unstable person. No wonder you are fearful of his drug abuse and erratic behavior and making every effort to keep him working and stable. This is a real fear, but it is driving some behaviors on your part that may be perpetuating the dysfunction between you and your H.

Perhaps one way to look at this is not about trying to control your H's behavior but taking steps to address the fear- the survival fear- by turning some attention to your own studies, training and career. This may be a slow process as your H is basically paying your parents so you can be focused on him. Is it possible to take this in steps- maybe devote some time to taking a class, less time babysitting him. I'm thinking small steps as any step will likely rock the boat, so maybe rock in small waves- if you can.

Putting his back pack away? He's too old for that. School age kids are able to put their own backpacks away and why are you looking in it anyway? (I think I know the answer to that- fear there are drugs in there). Leave the backpack alone. He's been doing cocaine/drugs for years- that doesn't stop immediately. Policing his drug use puts you in a drama triangle with him and drives your fears. All you can do it control your part of this.

Your kids are getting older and one day they will be on their own. Your son may be fine on his own but there are also group homes for individuals with autism where people live together as adult room mates with some assistance. Your parents also are investing in their condo. There is a future ahead for you- and I hope you can start to take steps- even baby steps- towards carving out some financial independence for you- whether you stay married or not- so you can ease your survival fears.


@notwendy,
You are one hundred percent correct,
His dysregulation just got to the next level. Because this time I wasn’t rolling at his feet, begging for mercy and telling him that I will do whatever he says (regarding the sale of the house. I said it’s fine if you want to sell, let’s discuss this first and decide together what the next step will be, he wants to keep me in limbo), and I wasn’t massaging his feet, while he kicks my hands.
Last night, as I was rocked by the incident that our dog was missing, I was staying quiet, reflecting. As I sat on the couch, after he was done eating, he came to the couch “go the f away, you ducking Jew, you are only good for one thing- to serve, to clean and cook, if you don’t like something, you know your way”. I got up and left, as to not escalate things further.
This morning, as I asked him a question regarding the payment for our s11 therapy, he snarled, “I’m not giving you any more of the money, get rid of the cars, or go work 24/7, better yet, I want you to prostitute yourself, understand me? Not a penny will you see from me”.
I went:” but what about the therapy for our son?”
Him:” I’m not negotiating, I’m stating”
I’m shaken in fear, I have very little savings to go, I need to find a job ASAP. He has monthly Chequers coming in, which are very small. It will only cover the cost of the living, no food, no therapy, no method of commute.
He threatened me in the past with the same things, he actually withheld the money, until I made a doormat out of myself, endured weeks long abuse, held on to his clothes begging for mercy. He reluctantly gave in. I just can’t do this anymore... .


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: formflier on September 19, 2018, 09:08:10 AM

Help me understand why you are still there with a person that says such horrible things... .

A dog goes missing and you... .

Your husband wants to prostitute you and you... .

Can you find alone time to sit and think today... .and feel... . 

FF


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 19, 2018, 10:56:08 AM
Help me understand why you are still there with a person that says such horrible things... .

A dog goes missing and you... .

Your husband wants to prostitute you and you... .

Can you find alone time to sit and think today... .and feel... . 

FF
@Ff, I am alone, all day, until he comes home.
I’m so busy trying to come up with a plan on how to survive, how to keep things consistent for s11, how to stay afloat, I am numb. I know I’m supposed to feel, something, but I don’t, nothing but the fear for 4 people in my lifeboat. My kids and my parents. I spoke to the partner, and asked how much I can rely on monthly, without asking my uBPDh, he gave me an amount that will be enough to provide necessities. That is until uBPDh will come in and stop those payments, which he easily can. He is a bully, he admitted and stated that to me, in school he was getting into trouble with people because of that. I’m the kid who wants to play nice, and has been giving the same bully the lunch, and some more. I don’t know how to stand up for myself.
I tell myself, these are just words, I don’t live in a third world country anymore, where there are no laws to abide by. I can find other means supporting the children, I won’t have to prostitute myself to keep them afloat. Those are just words... .but why do I have this mental image stuck in my head, of being so desperate to help our son, that I would do whatever it takes to continue with the therapy?


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Notwendy on September 19, 2018, 12:05:29 PM
I can find other means supporting the children, I won’t have to prostitute myself to keep them afloat. Those are just words... .but why do I have this mental image stuck in my head, of being so desperate to help our son, that I would do whatever it takes to continue with the therapy?

My situation is different as I thankfully am not dealing with drug abuse and someone who makes sweeping racist statements, or someone who would let us starve, but my H and I have had different ideas about what our kids "need".

I can't say I know how it feels to fear for our own basic needs, but the dynamics seem similar in that, I would ask him for money for something I thought the kids needed and he would then get hostile and angry with me. In the end, he would ( thankfully) go along with the need, sometimes even more generously than I would, but it had to be from him directly to them, not with me intervening.

BPD affects the most intimate relationships more, and from my observations, depending on how affected someone is, it begins with the romantic partner, then immediate household members ( children, and others living in the house) and those in the least intimate positions are often spared, and may even be treated better than immediate family members. This is not something personal but a part of the condition/dynamics.

While I didn't fear for our basic needs, the kids were getting older. They would have expenses- college, summer activities, braces- these are not survival needs but important things I wanted them to have and that we could afford - but my H is main wage earner ,and so that would be paid for by him.

I was so afraid of the kids facing the same hostility I did when I brought up these things that to protect them, I took the brunt of it. He would gladly pay their tuition, but if I asked for it, I'd get the grumbling. By this time, they knew he could afford these things. I decided to get out of the way. I don't earn enough for college, but he does and if he chooses not to help them, then it won't be the end of the world. I mostly put myself through college and they could too. If they chose to think he is a jerk, I then they will. I decided to not be the go between and what happened when I was not-  he was more generous with them than he would have been with me if I had been the go between.  Fortunately, the issues we have were only with his most intimate relationship and that is me. It doesn't happen with the children. It could with your H since he is already demonstrating hostility to them.

What would happen if you got out of the decision about what your kids need your H to pay for? I know what you fear would happen, but your H has probably not been faced with the reality of that decision without you in the middle. Maybe your H is not invested in the marriage at all. Maybe he's not invested in his kids at all. Maybe he is antisemitic. If so, then he is what he is, and your kids have him for a father and you know what, it is hurtful to them but it is the reality they are dealing with. I am not trying to sound cruel- I have  BPD mother who is too mentally ill to care about me. There is no way to sugar coat this for me.  However, maybe your H is invested in his family but since you ( romantic partner) bear the brunt of his projected emotions, when you intervene he is triggered by that, and doesn't have the chance to even decide if he is invested or not.

I spent so much time being the go between between my H and my kids. I thought I was protecting them from his temper ( that he showed to me) and I was afraid of that. Some of my fears were not as much reality based but from my own background. I didn't want them to experience what I did as a kid from BPD mother ( I wasn't aware of the example my co-dependent father had also set.) Because of my fears they had a doormat as a mother. That's not a good role model for them either.

I got to a point where I could not be co-dependent anymore. I know thankfully I did not fear for basic needs or physical abuse, but I did fear my H's anger. Things did get more rocky before they got better. I had support from a counselor and 12 step sponsor. I left it up to my H to decide if he was invested in the marriage or not. If he was not - I figured it would not be a happy outcome for either of us if he stayed.

Their father is who he is and that is very sad for your kids, but it is also their reality. My hope is that you all prevail through this with resiliency.


Title: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Cat Familiar on September 19, 2018, 09:13:48 PM
Snowglobe, you’re dealing with unbearable abuse. I’m glad that you’re thinking through things carefully, but what you really need to do is to consult an attorney to be aware of your rights. No one should have to live with this extreme abuse.


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Notwendy on September 22, 2018, 06:00:13 AM
How are you doing? Please post to let us know how you are.


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 22, 2018, 07:36:58 AM
I’ve come come yesterday to attend the lectures as I have an exam next week. UBPDh came back as well, he was actually the one who drove me back.
Prior, I have probably degraded myself to the lowest point: my son needs the treatment that his sanity depends on. I’m sure it sounds shocking, but when I put his mental well being on the scale with anything, including my pride, dignity and even my own well being, seeing him out of autism wins over. I tried to validate the loss of mahout part of my uBPDh’s savings in market crush (his shares in public company went down 4 times over) and his other assets as well. I validated him till I was blue in the face, he then replied that I have not met what he needed from me, thus, no extra money will be transferred... .
I asked what it was that he needed, he replied:
“Sell the house”
Me:” I’m open to selling it, can you let me know what you want to do later?”
Him:” I told you, in a few weeks without the money, I will see what kind of tune you will be singing, you will be begging me on your knees to sell the house”
Me: “I’m not attached to the walls, it’s the security for my children. What will you do with money?”
Him; “I want nothing in this f-big country, rent”
Me; “and the money”?
Him: “ you will beg me for the money”
At that point, after weeks long abuse, I got on my knees and begged him to sell, but keep paying for s11’s treatment.
His behaviour changes in the most intimidating way, he jumped out of the couch, started running around and laughing while waving the hands. Telling me tht “this isn’t enough and doesn’t work for him, because I’m not genuine. That he will show me the security for the children?. That I’m repulsive and that he has no feelings for me, that he basically doesn’t find me attractive and isn’t interested in my physically, or emotionally. That we are temporary room mates, that he doesn’t love d15, because she is useless, and I should be happy he comes home at all, not for me or d15, but for s11... .
He went to sleep in the same bed with me after, yelling “no touching, move away so I don’t see or feel you”
He woke up early the next day, went to work and drive me back to home town.
I need a peace of mind to prepare for a very important test towards my degree next Friday. I can’t have him turn up the heat, I’m already on a mental verge as it is. Once I write it, next step are the head shots and resume preparation. I am going to the agency many of my friends have used. I need someone to hold my hand, as I’m re-entering the work force. I also want to change my schedule to the one that genuinely suits my body- going to bed early and waking up early. Before my kids wake up, I want to hit the gym to feel anything, hopefully this will help with Dopamine to keep on going.
He blurred out “his plan”, while we were driving in the car. One- to take out money from our mortgage and buy more stock shares of the public company he is in. It fell 3 times over since he was able to liquidate his shares, I’ve spoken to his partner, who is refusing to invest another penny in it. I already saw this gambling addiction, he can’t loose. When he looses, he invests more. In 2018 we lost ALL of our life savings on the margins. That time I let him fail, clearly he is an addict and a gambler who hasn’t learnt his lesson. This time, I’m not taking anything from our mutual account. He also told me, that the money he is holding in “crypto currency” are his money, I wouldn’t be asking for the amount, as I have nothing to do with that they are his, and his alone.
Second option is to sell the property, get rid of companies and assets and move to his country. So he can live happily ever after. His Eastern European country is the biggest bully in the world. No laws, no societal norms, I will not “slit my own throat” in a figure of speech.
Seems that he is gearing up for a fight with the only person he can fight- me. He was taciturn and pleasant with my parents. I bring out the worse in him, we are like two addicts, feeding off of each other’s disfunction.
It won’t be good for either of us, or the family. It’s David and Galya situation.
All I know, I’ve used every tool in my box except one. I have never left. I this point I’m so deeply hurt by “Jews, him suggesting i prostitute myself, him denying our s11 vital treatment, him saying I’m nothing” I want to let it burn.


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Notwendy on September 22, 2018, 07:44:46 AM
If he moves back to his country- will you and the kids stay where you are, or go with him?  I actually think this is a long shot or threat, but maybe it is what he wants to do.

Are your parents aware of his statements about Jews? Isn't your mother Jewish too? What do your children identify with- do they consider themselves to be Jewish or were they raised in another religion?

What is the therapy your son is doing? In the US, the schools have to provide services for people with autism. Does he receive services in school as well?

Are your parents aware that he wants to sell the house? They live there too- so what would they do?


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 22, 2018, 08:32:31 AM
If he moves back to his country- will you and the kids stay where you are, or go with him?  I actually think this is a long shot or threat, but maybe it is what he wants to do.

Are your parents aware of his statements about Jews? Isn't your mother Jewish too? What do your children identify with- do they consider themselves to be Jewish or were they raised in another religion?

What is the therapy your son is doing? In the US, the schools have to provide services for people with autism. Does he receive services in school as well?

Are your parents aware that he wants to sell the house? They live there too- so what would they do?
@Wendy,
It’s been 30 years since he was brought to North America by his foo who were fleeing from the post SUSSR regime. Under no circumstances will I ever move there. I will stay where I am, with my children. We have laws here, he won’t be able to take all the money, only half. If he does somehow manage to take it out of the country under the radar, he won’t be able to come back without facing the consequences. So the answer is- no, I’m not going to his “country”, with a mentally ill and dilution all person, he doesn’t watch the news or fight for interests of our country, the one we live it. He only sides and cares about the country of his origin. I don’t believe he will be leaving, too many moving parts, plus, he already threatened to leave a few times before.

He has been waving the flag of his origin, thus successfully brainwashing the children. D15 identifies herself with him, thus his heritage. Ironic. My mother also married outside of the culture (my step dad isn’t Jewish), we keep our family dynamics “multicultural”. S11 is still very young to choose, we aren’t actively practicing any faith.

S11 is recieving private therapy, we are on a wait list to be funded for it, it’s another year at least. In school he received support with academics.

Parents are aware of his intentions, everyone is asking for me not to react out of anger and let the emotions fizzle. Then take an action, or rather in this case counteraction.


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Notwendy on September 22, 2018, 08:49:45 AM
Parents are aware of his intentions, everyone is asking for me not to react out of anger and let the emotions fizzle. Then take an action, or rather in this case counteraction.


Although I think your parents are also looking out for their own best interests, I am glad they are aware that their living and financial situation is apparently unstable in addition to yours. I think their advice to not be emotionally reactive, and rather start to make plans for your own stability is a wise one- fueling the drama with anger is likely to escalate his moods.

I also respect that a main short term priority is your exam next week and so rocking the boat now could be counter productive to this goal.

I think that after the exam would be a good idea to consult a lawyer. This is not the same as telling you to leave. The two of you share some assets and he is making threats about them. One of them is the house- he seems intent on selling it. I think it would help you to know what your rights are- can he actually displace you and leave the family without a place to live, how can you protect your assets and keep him from taking them. I agree there isn't time to do it before your exam but I would not wait too long afterwards to take steps to protect yourself from his decisions when it comes to your own welfare. I understand that the dynamics between the two of you are addictive, but I do hope you can start to take a step to protect yourself from his threats. I also think it is best not to discuss a lawyer visit with him- this will agitate you.

If you do not have the funds for a lawyer, perhaps your parents will help you out with this- as it is their welfare on the line as well. I know your mother has said you chose him, but I don't think you chose all this. There may have been red flags in the beginning, but escalating abuse- and the issues with how he treats your children, wasn't likely something you would have chosen had you known about it. I hope she can understand this isn't good for you.


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Cat Familiar on September 22, 2018, 11:03:57 AM
Snowglobe, I'm assuming it was recently that the value of the company shares dropped precipitously, is that correct?

For that reason, he wants you to sell the house and other assets and use that money so he can return to his home country and live comfortably. Then he also suggests re-mortgaging the house and investing it in stock in this potentially failing company, even though his partner is dubious about investing more into it. This sounds to you like more behavior related to his gambling addiction, which caused you to lose all your savings in the past.

You begged and pleaded with him to continue funding treatment for your son and he refused, saying that he wouldn't even be giving you money to live on, unless you sell the house and then be in the position of having to rent.

He says awful things about you, threatens to cut you off with no money, says your daughter is "useless" and that you're only a "temporary roommate."

Meanwhile you're preparing for a big test for your degree and taking steps to re-enter the job market. 

How are you dealing emotionally with all these threats that he's been making?      It must be exhausting to be around him.

Cat


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 22, 2018, 05:24:36 PM
Snowglobe, I'm assuming it was recently that the value of the company shares dropped precipitously, is that correct?

For that reason, he wants you to sell the house and other assets and use that money so he can return to his home country and live comfortably. Then he also suggests re-mortgaging the house and investing it in stock in this potentially failing company, even though his partner is dubious about investing more into it. This sounds to you like more behavior related to his gambling addiction, which caused you to lose all your savings in the past.

You begged and pleaded with him to continue funding treatment for your son and he refused, saying that he wouldn't even be giving you money to live on, unless you sell the house and then be in the position of having to rent.

He says awful things about you, threatens to cut you off with no money, says your daughter is "useless" and that you're only a "temporary roommate."

Meanwhile you're preparing for a big test for your degree and taking steps to re-enter the job market. 

How are you dealing emotionally with all these threats that he's been making?      It must be exhausting to be around him.

Cat
You are correct regarding the sudden fall of the shares and his desire to “live like a king” regardless.
Exhausting, doesn’t begin to describe it. I’m exhausted of myself, let alone him. It’s true what the tools describe from the conflict unravel. We come from two different philosophies of life, I come from a family oriented side, the one that revolves around family values, commitment and traditions that helped my people to survive. He comes from an Easter European mentality, that just because he has a penis, he is somehow a step above me, and I’m not an equal in these relationships. I think, that once the novelty of having sex with almost a teenager wore off (I was 17 and he was 27 when we met), so did my value in his eyes. Now, I’m just an annoying liability that he can’t shake off without having legal and financial consequences.
Having said that, just as I know the sun will rise tomorrow, so will I continue fighting for a chance to live with dignity and try and provide. Comfortable life for myself and my kids.


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Cat Familiar on September 22, 2018, 05:44:16 PM
From what you've said, it sounds like he'd like an opportunity to escape family life and go back to the country where he was born. However, if he was a child when he left, he might not have a correct impression of exactly what he'd be returning to.

You've got your big test coming up, but afterwards, I hope you do seek legal counsel and begin to get some auditing on the money he has stashed away in bitcoin. Between the gambling addiction and his dismissive attitude and lack of loyalty to you and the children, it would be prudent to keep a good track of his money trail. He could very well leave you and the kids high and dry and flee the country.

As far as selling the house, why make that easy for him. Do you have any faith that he'd do the right thing concerning you and the kids?


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Notwendy on September 22, 2018, 06:35:54 PM
Although your mother says you chose this man, at 17, I don’t think you had any idea about the dynamics you migh experience and the issues you would face with your H. You were still impressionable and likely to believe what he said about you. I hope you do well on your exam- and also in time appreciate that you have self worth no matter what he says.


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: snowglobe on September 22, 2018, 11:08:46 PM
@Cat,
I have a vague idea of how much money he had set aside, but without him giving me An access, which as you can imagine he has no incentive of sharing, it’s just an anonymous wallet, which can’t be proven in the court of law. I have seen it, I know it exists, I know the value of it fluctuates depending on the rate. I just can’t prove it, as he hides it from me.
He left a pimply teenager, the major reason for the family move, other then political and economical issues in the country that was going through mahout transformations, was the fact that as a 17 yo boy he started dealing weapons on the black market. No one spilled the beans, as the pack mentality is very strong in his culture, but from many small one liners over the course of our lives I gathered that he was involved in a gang. It was his parent’s way of saving him. And then I took over the saving, pun intended.
No, I don’t think he will do right by me, as the only fair division of property in his culture is for the woman to join the monastery and becoming a nun. Perhaps then she can be spared financial ruins and given a chance of raising her children. Back, where he came from, it’s still very much “slavery” mentality. As I explained previously, it’s geo political, socio economical and demographical issue. A male population was almost wiped out over the course of several World Wars, alcoholism is very prevalent in the country, the ratio men to women is 5:9, this making it not only male oriental society, but a jungle where women are competing for male attention. When I came to North America, it was a shock factor for me, I have never seen women being equal to men before.


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Notwendy on September 23, 2018, 07:26:49 AM
Both of you are from Eastern European cultures? I think this may be driving some of your fears. In the US, the way your husband is treating you is considered abusive and unacceptable. I think a discussion with a lawyer would help you understand your options, here in this country, not Russia. Yes, it does happen where a divorce is not equal financially between the spouses, but ( I am not a lawyer) I do not believe one spouse can leave the other destitute and homeless. A lawyer would be able to give you all the facts about the laws in your area. Without this information, you may be making decisions based on fears, and facts may help clarify things for you.

People make choices at 17 that they probably would not make at 30. I would guess that at 27, your H was making decisions like an impulsive 17 year old would - and emotionally the two of you may have matched better when you were 17 as well. In a way though as he was older, the things he said to you may have also shaped your self image and your image of the world- you were so young then. Not all men treat their wives like you describe. I hope that you will consult a lawyer about your rights and options. It could be financially difficult, but perhaps not as dire as you fear. The only way to know is to consult a lawyer who is familiar with laws and resources in your area and also social services in you area.


Title: Re: PART 2: Boys night out instead of work
Post by: Cat Familiar on September 23, 2018, 10:37:54 AM
I second everything Notwendy has said.

Regardless of what your husband believes, you are protected by the laws of your adopted country. And engaging the services of an attorney can be done without his knowledge. You need to know what your rights are.

Your husband has a history of breaking the law and this is unlikely to change, no matter how much you try and monitor him. Your focus is on protecting yourself and your children and consulting with an attorney is a necessary step in understanding what your rights are.