Boys night out instead of work

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Boy... .I usually have something to say. At the moment I'm struggling for good advice.

You know, when I'm not sure what to do, it's usually time to get professional advice.  I generally get a couple of opinions.

I would certainly want others to "validate" this as good idea before you try it.

I think you need to go to S11s doctors, therapists and caregivers and lay all of this out for them.  Ask them if S11 should be involved in this.

I'd go with whatever they say.

Thoughts?

FF

I made a call to my son’s psychologist who is swamped. If you remember from last year, when my unBPDh is dysregated he takes up on an addiction. Last year it was gaming. Until after one of his drug induced binges I didn’t make him delete it. You’ll ask me where is it leading? Well, it’s against his psychologist’s and sr therapists advices for our son to play any video games, first he is stinking, second he doesn’t understand the difference between the reality and the game, which makes him dysregulate and introduces violent tendiencies. Guess what uBPDh did on Saturday when he “wanted to spend time with his son”? He took him to game store and purchased video games. He then enlisted our son to play with him. @Ff, legally I can’t do anything, he is their father and if he chooses not to listen to the advices of s11 medical team, he can’t be forced. I asked him nicely to shut it off and not involve s11 into this, to which I was told to F off. The team can’t do anything, it’s their recommendation, not the order. For uBPDh there isn’t any authority that he would listen to. It’s a toddler, with a very high iq, if he can get away with it, he will pull on every lever to produce desired effect. Sadly, this is why I choose to come with him on business trips. For if I don’t, he makes kids life a chaotic roller coaster.

[snowglobe]

Boy... .I usually have something to say. At the moment I'm struggling for good advice.

You know, when I'm not sure what to do, it's usually time to get professional advice.  I generally get a couple of opinions.

I would certainly want others to "validate" this as good idea before you try it.

I think you need to go to S11s doctors, therapists and caregivers and lay all of this out for them.  Ask them if S11 should be involved in this.

I'd go with whatever they say.

Thoughts?

FF

I made a call to my son’s psychologist who is swamped. If you remember from last year, when my unBPDh is dysregated he takes up on an addiction. Last year it was gaming. Until after one of his drug induced binges I didn’t make him delete it. You’ll ask me where is it leading? Well, it’s against his psychologist’s and sr therapists advices for our son to play any video games, first he is stinking, second he doesn’t understand the difference between the reality and the game, which makes him dysregulate and introduces violent tendiencies. Guess what uBPDh did on Saturday when he “wanted to spend time with his son”? He took him to game store and purchased video games. He then enlisted our son to play with him. @Ff, legally I can’t do anything, he is their father and if he chooses not to listen to the advices of s11 medical team, he can’t be forced. I asked him nicely to shut it off and not involve s11 into this, to which I was told to F off. The team can’t do anything, it’s their recommendation, not the order. For uBPDh there isn’t any authority that he would listen to. It’s a toddler, with a very high iq, if he can get away with it, he will pull on every lever to produce desired effect. Sadly, this is why I choose to come with him on business trips. For if I don’t, he makes kids life a chaotic roller coaster.

[snowglobe]

He is recruiting children to help and regulate him, and if they refuse, he calls them “useless”, and goes onto a rant of “why do I need you?”.


I am not a professional but having experienced being "used" to sooth a parent, I will call this by it's name: emotional incest. It's a form of abuse, one that I was subjected to. Abuse isn't just battering. My parents did not abuse me physically or through sexual touching, but this isn't what emotional incest is. I was also verbally abused and when your H says this to them- this is verbal abuse: 'he calls them “useless”, and goes onto a rant of “why do I need you?”.

https://psychcentral.com/blog/emotional-incest-when-is-close-too-close/

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/emotional-covert-incest-when-parents-make-their-kids-partners-0914165

Honestly, I felt my stomach turn when I read that your H was asking your kids to sleep with him to soothe him. Not because I thought he'd intentionally molest them but because he was using them for his own needs. This is the opposite of what parenting is- the parent meets the child's needs. I know this may sound harsh but from those of us who experienced this- this is what it is.

Emotional incest is not sexual, and it also isn't being done with intent to harm the child. It isn't wrong to snuggle with a child ( appropriately). An emotionally healthy parent would snuggle with a child if the child were sick or having a bad dream- to help calm the child. It isn't emotionally healthy to ask the child to snuggle with the parent to meet the parent's need.

@NotWendy,
I KNOW! I know because I lived through it!
My unpd father would call my mother “disgusting whore”, and promise to “ruin her”, the only time he would stop is if she “killed herself”, and then 5 min later make me give him a hug, or worse sleep with him in the same bed, when I was staying over night on the weekend. They had a split custody arrangement, I was staying with him Friday through Sunday. I know what my uBPDh is Doug and I’m powerless to stop it. That is why I come with him, so my children can have a normal childhood, at least for some time. When I stay away and don’t soothe him, he takes it out on them. He is throwing money at them, games, restaurants for s11 and beauty appointments and expensive clothing for d15, and then asks them to sit with him, love him, sleep with him, tell him how much they love him and how amazing he is. I shared it with s11 psychologist, he told me that there is very little that can be done now, or even should I decide to leave. Any lawyer can spit a story of a dotting dad who loves his children and wants to spend every minute with them, including co sleeping. As long as he isn’t physically/sexually abusing them, I can’t involve the authorities.
Is there anything I can do to stop it?
I already went through the intake with local dbt clinic, on Wednesday I will have a pre interview. They are full, but assured me for a spot come October. They will hopefully have a better advice on what to do.

[Notwendy]

You are correct that emotional incest is hard to prove. I am glad you reported it to someone.

I thought your dad left the family completely and left your mother to fend for herself. Did he also have a custody arrangement?

It isn't unusual that we choose a romantic partner where we recreate some childhood issues or trauma.


How do the kids feel about their father? Maybe ambivalent, but at your D's age - I hated my mother. My mother explained it as teen age daughter-mother issues. No, I hated her. I understand the situation better now and don't hate her but I didn't understand it as a teen.

[Cat Familiar]

So you’re just going to go on business trips with him and offer yourself up as the sacrificial lamb so that he doesn’t abuse the children?

[snowglobe]

You are correct that emotional incest is hard to prove. I am glad you reported it to someone.

I thought your dad left the family completely and left your mother to fend for herself. Did he also have a custody arrangement?

It isn't unusual that we choose a romantic partner where we recreate some childhood issues or trauma.


How do the kids feel about their father? Maybe ambivalent, but at your D's age - I hated my mother. My mother explained it as teen age daughter-mother issues. No, I hated her. I understand the situation better now and don't hate her but I didn't understand it as a teen.

I have made those reports numerous times to all mental health professionals involved on our team. I’ve confessed all but physical abuse directed at me. With little go on all the can do is advise me to keep monitoring.
Initially my bio father cut us off after discovering my mother’s infidelity. After about a year of “sanctions”, he agreed to minimal child support with mendstory visits overnight. When I was about 14-15 he moved to another city for work. My normal life started then.
Kids love him and suffer when they see him detached, trying to hurt me with silent treatments and put downs

[snowglobe]

So you’re just going to go on business trips with him and offer yourself up as the sacrificial lamb so that he doesn’t abuse the children?

For now, yes.
Believe me you, if I believed that there is another way, or had other tools, I would choose another option. Hence getting help from dbt clinic starting October

[Cat Familiar]

So you’ve contacted mental health professionals on behalf of your children but you’ve omitted that your husband has physically assaulted you. Why are you protecting him?

[Notwendy]

I know you are in the balance between allowing your H to abuse you ( and the kids) so he can support the family, and the possibility that he may act out on his threats to leave you all without a source of support. Each of these choices comes with difficult circumstances.

It's a gamble, and I understand you are not at the place where you are ready to risk your H's support, but you and the kids pay a price for that support.

This abuse will not stop until you stop it. Your H has no incentive to stop it. He feels no pain from it- because abusing you is an outlet for his pain so he doesn't feel it. Painful feelings are a part of the human condition, but people like your H deal with them through abuse of others, abuse of drugs or sex to numb himself out. You, and the children, are the ones who feel the pain. There are no consequences to your H for abusing you- so why should he stop it?

[snowglobe]

So you’ve contacted mental health professionals on behalf of your children but you’ve omitted that your husband has physically assaulted you. Why are you protecting him?

We’ve been involved with child psychologist and therapists who regularly come to our home to treat s11 for Autism and help us on consultation basis when it comes to d15, as well as coping with raising atypical child. They have observed many things, as well as I consulted with them.
I’m protecting him, because I know that once I go that route there is no coming back from it. I will single handenly distroy and hope for it to get better. In our culture this is unforgivable transgression, he will lawyer up and weather the storm. Unfortunately, I’ve seen it more then once in our community; women reported, men lawyer up, it initially gets hot, and then men persevere due to unlimited material means, kids And ex wives are left with nothing. Allegations of abuse go unproved, or worse, women are blackmailed not to testify, otherwise abusive husbands refuse division of property and assets, and go after custody to drive the point home. I’m not self destructive to the point of starting something I’m not strong to see through... .
here, in North America, or pretty much anywhere, money talks. If you have no problem cashing our 250k for lawyers fees, comparing to state provided legal aid, the chances of “law prevailing” are next to nothing.
So, the answer is, because I’m afraid of what he will do after initial slap on the wrist

[Notwendy]

I have actually seen cases of that, where (there is also female on male abuse but most of the time, the men have greater income in a traditional family) the man is wealthy enough to hire a vicious lawyer. The wife has to be willing to be left penny less to endure the divorce. I've also seen it where the man is "taken to the cleaners" in a divorce. It seems to always be difficult, it is not always a fair system and I have seen it be unfair to both men and women.

What if, instead of reporting him, you were to just let him face the consequences of his other behavior? His business, his drug abuse- why protect him from his own vices? I know you care for his safety but it is exhausting to monitor him constantly.

[snowglobe]

I have actually seen cases of that, where (there is also female on male abuse but most of the time, the men have greater income in a traditional family) the man is wealthy enough to hire a vicious lawyer. The wife has to be willing to be left penny less to endure the divorce. I've also seen it where the man is "taken to the cleaners" in a divorce. It seems to always be difficult, it is not always a fair system and I have seen it be unfair to both men and women.

What if, instead of reporting him, you were to just let him face the consequences of his other behavior? His business, his drug abuse- why protect him from his own vices? I know you care for his safety but it is exhausting to monitor him constantly.

What I’m seeking here is a gradual change- we half way better in terms of verbal abuse. Simple phrase: we don’t speak to each other like that, or we don’t speak in a raised voices, or “green, mint, flying kite” when he starts speaking nonsense, had improved my life drastically. How do I gradually show him the consequences?

[Notwendy]

He has a drug party in your house- call the police, let him get busted.

He beats you- go to the hospital and document it .

He goes on a drug binge- don't take care of the after affects- let him feel the hangover.

[AskingWhy]

He has a drug party in your house- call the police, let him get busted.

He beats you- go to the hospital and document it .

He goes on a drug binge- don't take care of the after affects- let him feel the hangover.

I agree that these are great consequences due to not respecting boundaries.  BPDs have problems with this.

[Harri]

This thread has been locked as it reached the post limit.  Part 2 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329331.0;all