BPDFamily.com

Most of my posts until now have been on the "Bettering" board, but it's time to start posting here as well.

My wife hasn't been diagnosed, but I'm certain that she's a high functioning BP. We've been married for 4 years, and have a 2 year old daughter. Long story short, I've been miserable for a long time, my wife has made zero effort to change, and won't even acknowledge that she needs to change.

In anticipation of me filing for divorce (I said I need to do that in a fight on Wednesday night), she took my daughter with her to her parents' early Thursday morning while I was asleep, emptied our joint bank account and still hasn't returned. I've been speaking with attorneys since Thursday, and was planning to file for divorce today, but the attorney I'm planning to use ended up not being available to meet even though she promised me she'd be available all day.

I'm supposed to meet with her tomorrow morning now, and have also scheduled a consultation with another attorney right before that. The attorney I'm planning to go with did take time for a phone conversation with me today, and she said something that was really hard to hear. She told me that the most likely temporary custody ruling would be that I get my daughter every other weekend, plus every Tuesday. She said we can try to get better than that, but that's standard, and that my wife gets the benefit here because my daughter is currently living with her.

How would it not be 50/50 while the case is ongoing? And why would my wife get rewarded for unilaterally taking our child away without my consent? This is so fundamentally unfair, as I'm the one getting punished for playing by the rules.

Any tips you guys can share?

I'll let others provide details about the 50-50 custody since I never had to deal with that but will provide the following advice: cover your ass.  Record and document.  If she is really BPD (or NPD), be ready for one hell of a smear campaign. There is no limit to what they can do.  Get ready for abuse claims, even sexual abuse ones.  You may get threats..  so make sure to record phone calls.  Don't let anything slip because of the guilt because you'll likely regret it later.
 

Thank you for the tips! I've documented a lot of the verbal and physical abuse in the past, and will work on a plan of attack in the event of a smear campaign. Great idea about the phone calls. 

One more: stay factual.  Focus on facts and evidence. Don't play her game even if it's tempting. It will pay off in the end, they usually self-destruct. 

Another great tip! I definitely think the facts are on my side here.

It's just devastating right now to not be able to see my daughter and have no idea when I'll get to next.

Tell your lawyer, in no uncertain terms, that you want nothing less than a 50-50 arrangement during temporary orders. Right for it. What might look like temporary orders could, with a high conflict divorce, last several years.

Be willing -- even suggest -- that both parents have a custody evaluation, to include a psychological evaluation.

Sadly, that is typical for most of the divorce cases addressed here.  You can't fix her, otherwise you would have been able to do so long before now.  Only she can fix herself, and that would require her to accept long term therapy where she diligently applied the counsel in her life, thinking, perceptions and actions.  For many of us, that never happened.  Accept that as a likely reality in your case too.


What went wrong?  TMI.  You gave her Too Much Information, you mentioned divorce and that triggered an immediate overreaction.  People with BPD (pwBPD) don't just react, they typically overreact.  From now on you'll need to be careful to only share what's necessary.  Other than the required marital information related to finances and such, just the parental info sharing.  Child exchange details, handling care information when the child is ill, etc.  More than that and you risk giving her information that she can use to sabotage you.

As the others mentioned, she will very likely try to paint you as Mr Evil Personified.  The person who once captivated your attention and was the center of your life will be transforming herself into someone else entirely, she will perceive you as The Enemy.  Be prepared for anything.  Odds are she will very soon try to paint you as either (1) a DV abuser, (2) a child abuser - substantive abuse, neglect or endangerment, or (3) both.

I've "been there, done that", so have many others here.  You're not alone.  You can get through this just as we did.  Of course, it will be a horrendous experience but don't give up.  Eventually you will get through the worst of it, just as a terrible storm at sea eventually fades into heavy seas.

My story...  I separated in late 2005, triggered by me calling the police.  I had been a lurker here, then a member in early 2006.  My son was still 3 years old.  Over 14 years later he's now an adult and has aged out of the court system.  I started out as alternate weekend dad, but each time back to court I got more and more authority and time.  I recently posted a look back and summary (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342983.0) of my experiences and gradual improvement of fatherhood status.  And some 16,000 posts too.

GaGrl has given good advice. You’ll most likely get the cookie cutter visitation up front. The family courts are very standardized right now. Don’t be discouraged. Don’t be rattled. It’s time to plan. If you want 50/50 as a father, it’ll take some time. Family court is very biased, and not equally. You’re in a marathon unless she screws up really bad. You’re the reasonable parent here. You’re not taking the child away and not disclosing where your child is. You’re not draining bank accounts, which is unfortunately legal. Open a new bank account under your name only. Document everything that your child’s mother is doing. Buy a highlighter and highlight the bad stuff. Have you talked to your lawyer about high conflict cases? Is she experienced in them? BPD, NPD and all of the alphabet soup won’t really do you any good to try to convince the courts. Psychiatric evaluations are a very good start. Good luck.

How do you think your wife will react to being in court?

My husband's uBPDex is terrified of court, terrified the judge will take her child away forever.  During their divorce she agreed to 50/50 custody.

Others instead go on full attack.

Yes, it's good to anticipate how your wife will respond to court. My husband's ex could be vicious -- until it reached the reality of court appearances, at which point she caved.

Courts generally don't care whether a parent is disordered or not.  If there's a diagnosis, great, but if not, it moves on to documented behaviors.  Even with a diagnosis the court would still have to ask the experts to report how much that might impact parenting.  We do well to follow that pattern, focus on documented behaviors.  Having details you can back up with a log or journal is very helpful.  (Vague claims such as "he always..." or "she always..." don't get much attention and are generally ignored as hearsay.)

Overview with psych eval versus in-depth custody eval...

Court may be quick to agree to psych evals for both parents.  My court ordered one, I promptly complied and as ordered my lawyer gave the report (anxiety) to stbEx's lawyer.  Then... crickets.  Fourteen years later and I still don't know whether she took her psych eval.  Court moved on and never forced her to comply.  What did I learn?  Never "gift away" information.  Rather, my lawyer should have said, "We have our report. We are ready to exchange his report for hers."

Frankly, a simple initial psych report is helpful for a heads-up but far too limited to address all custody and parenting concerns.  In most areas it is the custody eval that digs into the overall family dynamics and through interviews with both parents and the children reaches a summary report to present to the court.

In my court this was the process:  Separation, temporary protection orders, CPS report of "no concerns" about father, temporary custody & parenting order, filing for divorce, divorce temporary order hearing, mediation attempt ordered (and failed), court's social worker's parenting investigation, custody evaluation (by respected child psychologist), court review of custody recommendation with lawyers, settlement conference (another failure), trial, on trial day ex decided to settle, two months later the final decree.  That was across a two year period.  Most seem to be shorter, a few longer.

This is a partial excerpt from a longer post, please follow the link for additional comments there.


Right now the court doesn't know you from Adam or her from Eve, but it does know that standard procedures result in unwritten preference generally gifted to the Mother.  Can you raise enough doubts during that brief initial temp order hearing to ensure your spouse doesn't get the typical default preference?  Odds are that whatever temp order you get is what you'll be stuck with unmodified until you walk out with a final decree.  Well, unless something very extreme occurs.  That was my experience.  (Courts assume a temp order is only "temporary", however we have learned that our sort of divorce cases can take up to a year or two.)  That's why you do your best to get the "least bad" temp order.

You have some options.

One is to try and dial down the emotions if you think she may be at all willing to return home.

You can still get divorced at a later time but you wouldn't be on your heels ...

Another option is to talk to a lawyer to find out whether it's a good idea to do a well-child check.

Partly for documentation, if you are at all concerned about the well-being of your child. You can let an officer know that your wife has issues with emotions and you want to make sure someone is there to ensure the visit is civil. This is more of a tactical option because it's primarily to create a document trail. No one wants to have a cop sitting on the property while you visit with your child, but you wouldn't be the first or last parent to do this. It's a question for your lawyer.

Also, the lawyer may be correct that every other weekend + 1 night is standard, but there is research to suggest it's standard because lawyers keep perpetuating that bias. I read a few studies that implied it's true moms get more custody, but moms are also more likely to ask for more custody. In cases where dads asked for more, they were equally likely to get the same amount of visitation.

Your lawyer works for you. If you want 50/50, ask for it, and ask how your lawyer will help you reach that goal.

There is nothing to lose from asking for it.

That's exactly what I said. My lawyer spoke with my wife's lawyer yesterday, and proposed a 50-50 arrangement. My wife came back with a proposal where I see my daughter for 3 hours per day, 3 days per week. So 9 hours total per week. Unbelievable.

The issue is that in our jurisdiction, if only one parent is in "possession" of the child, they have all the leverage. By taking our daughter away without my knowledge, my wife really put me in a bad position. So legally, she has no obligation to even let me see my daughter until the judge issues the temporary custody order.

That may not even be ruled on for 2-3 more weeks, and the default decision in these situations is for the parent that's not in possession to only get every other weekend, and then 3 hours one day per week. I've never realized how fundamentally unfair our legal system is until now.

My lawyer mentioned that we may need to take a not-as-great deal right now just so I can see my daughter again, and then work at continually increasing it over time.

Yes, we'll be pushing for a custody evaluation and a psychological evaluation ASAP.

This might be a stupid question, but my concern with a psychological evaluation is that my wife will know what to say and do in order to remain undetected for having BPD. What do they do in these evaluations? And how would they be able to diagnose her as having BPD if she knows how to answer their questions?

Good point about how so many of these marriages end so sadly because the BP is unwilling to try to change. In "Stop Walking on Eggshells," I remember one of the anecdotes where a man's therapist said something like, "Who do you think you are - God?" There's only so much you can do to help.

You're right - I shouldn't have used such specific language that night and I probably did trigger her. Trust me, I regret it now. If she'd stayed here and I'd been able to file before she left, it'd be an automatic 50-50 temporary custody order right off the bat. I never dreamed that she'd do what she has done.

Her divorce complaint accused me of extreme cruelty to her and gross neglect of spousal duties. Fortunately, no abuse claims yet, but I'm trying to prepare for anything. Once she finds out everything I'm claiming about her, I could see it getting really nasty.

People like you inspire me to fight this as hard as possible. I can't describe how lonely, confused and hopeless I feel right now. But I'm sure you - and others - can relate to that feeling, and knowing that it improved for you definitely inspires me to keep moving forward.

Thank you for the encouragement. I think I'll be in a much better place once I start getting to see my daughter again. This is awful right now.

I hope you're right that this will pay off in the long run. I've done everything by the book, whereas she hasn't, so I'm hoping that ends up hurting her and helping me.

Yes, my attorney is very experienced at dealing with high conflict cases. He has already started thinking several steps ahead and anticipating all of the crazy moves my ex may pull. I've also been reading a ton, and just finished "Splitting" so I can be as informed as possible.

I honestly have no idea - could see it going either way. In making my case for full custody, we'll be describing in detail everything she's done. As it gets nastier and nastier, I could see some fabricated allegations being launched at me. In response to your question, my initial instinct is that she'll fight it as hard as possible. But if she gets to a point where there's a risk that she'll get less than 50-50 custody due to the info that we present, I could see her trying to settle with me for 50-50.

So much good info here - thank you!

Great advice about following the pattern of behaviors. I've been keeping an online journal for 2-3 years now, where most of her outbursts are described in detail. She's also admitted to many of them in couples counseling, and has admitted to them with me as well.

While the abuse was all directed at me, some of it occurred in front of our daughter. I didn't know this until recently, but that's actually considered to be child abuse. She'll likely fly off the handle when we submit that, but it's the truth, and I think that'll really help my case.

Why do you think your ex decided to settle? And did you consider rejecting that offer and going forward with the trial?

I'm hopeful/confident that in the long run, the worst-case scenario is that I'll have 50-50 custody. While I want - and feel like I have earned - much more than that, I could at least live with that. My biggest concern is that the temporary order may be awful for me, and I may have to operate under that for 2+ years.

Awesome info here - thank you!

From what I've gathered via my meetings with several attorneys, there's one magistrate in our jurisdiction that handles all temporary order hearings, and he always defaults to that aforementioned set up when one parent has possession of the child. We need to provide enough evidence right off the bat to buck that trend. That's why I'm paying this lawyer!

Here's a zinger I managed to improvise at the right time.

Often temp order hearings are quite brief, perhaps a half hour.  Make your time count.  Your lawyer is probably good and experienced.  My comment to add is that courts seem to separate the conflict between spouses as separate from parenting concerns.  Adult matters as separate from parenting matters.  So while you can mention her rants, rages and whatever directed at you, the court may be more alert and give more weight to any behaviors that impact the children.  That can include what the child sees and hears even if not directed at the child.  It may not be considered "actionable" but it can assist the court to weigh the factors overall.

Also, I was frustrated that no one, not the court nor even the lawyers, were interested in improving the temp order when we hit obstructions and delays.  It was like, "Why bother, it's only temporary?"  Four months in a temp order while separated and nearly two years in the divorce's temp order.  Sure didn't turn out to be temporary.  I often wished we had managed to get a clause inserted in the temp order that it could and should be modified as appropriate without waiting for the final decree.

Did the lawyer say what would count as evidence?

If you don't have it already, that would mean creating it. Maybe at the hearing for temp custody you go in assertively and insist that a custody evaluation is needed, including the MMPI-2 or the PPI (I think that's the one to detect personality disorders ...).

For many of us, temporary orders have a way of becoming permanent. If the magistrate you get defaults to EOW + 1 then I would use that first hearing to set the tone that you want as much light shining on this family as possible, and then lay out the plan you propose for doing that.

Example: You propose a CE (custody evaluation), have three that you approve, then have your ex select one by day/date. If she has not picked one by then, you will select the CE. To avoid stonewalling and obstructing (a common issue for many of us with disordered exes), have consequences for her non-compliance where possible. They can be as simple as the above example, where you choose the CE if she doesn't by the date proposed. Or, if either party does not participate in the CE in a timely way, then ________. Whatever your lawyer and you thinks is reasonable.

One form of leverage you have in these custody battles is that you can do reasonable things, propose reasonable solutions, follow reasonable directions, do things on time. She will struggle to do that, especially if she believes you seem to be gaining an advantage.

Shining lots and lots of light on our situations tends to help us even when things might not seem to be working in our favor in court.

The clock kind of starts for courts once you file for divorce. If the evidence is ambiguous and it's a he-said she-said type situation, judges tend to split things to status quo and then wait and see what happens. In low-conflict divorces, where there is still conflict, people tend to cool their jets and return to baseline after a shorter period of time than in our high-conflict divorces. Some judges tend to think if you keep showing up in their court room, you're part of the problem. So you have to be the party that consistently comes forward with a reasonable solution and impeccable behaviors. When you show up with proposed solutions, you signal to the judge that you're on their wavelength, trying your best to solve the problem so that you can avoid clogging up the court docket.

I have an acquaintance who is a magistrate and it's disheartening to hear how she describes people who end up in her court room. She sees them as people who can't solve their own problems, like little kids who need to run to an adult every time there's a beef.

Part of being in court for us is to make sure the judge knows we want to avoid court and here's how ______________.

Stay with it. I didn't have custody issues, but my divorce was crazy. My lawyer said I'd get a chapter in his book if he ever wrote one. He's retired now and is happily playing golf, talking with relatives on Zoom, and puttering around the house, no book planned. Good for him.

You may indeed lose this battle, but don't give up. I had meetings with my lawyer where I was crying, and he was pounding the table and swearing because he was so mad at what my ex and his lawyer were proposing. So it was quite a mess indeed. But we didn't give up and ultimately got multiple breaks that led to it getting settled out-of-court. That's actually unusual here. It took way too long and cost way too much. Close-out was rough too. You would think they could let it all go, but no.

What I ended up with was completely reasonable and slightly better than what most judges would award. The key was my lawyer. He was the managing partner of a firm focused on high conflict divorce, FWIW. Most in my area aren't divorce specialists, so I had to drive a bit to get that.

Awesome insight here, and that was a very clever line you came up with in that meeting with the opposing attorney. Great point about focusing on the most important arguments, especially anything relating to my child and/or what she has witnessed.

What you said about the unfavorable temp order being tough to escape is one of my biggest fears right now. Based on what I've gathered, I should ultimately get 50/50 shared visitation at the very least once everything is finalized. I'm pushing for more than that, and hope to get it. But between now and whenever everything is finalized, I'm extremely worried about getting stuck with an awful temp order.

What would count as evidence is proving that she's been physically violent with me in front of our child, and we have that evidence. But you make a great point about those evaluations as well - those are definitely under consideration.

Love the tip about seeking compliance and setting out the consequences for non-compliance. That's so helpful!

I think I'm off to a good start in terms of appearing like the more reasonable party, and am planning to continue doing so. I'm just hoping I get rewarded for it.

Thanks for the encouragement and for sharing your story.

Selecting the right lawyer is so important - glad to hear that you got the right one. I'm hoping I did as well, but you never know for sure this early in the process.

My experience was the same.  I fought for more during temporary stipulation (before moving out of the house) but at the end of the day got the standard. 

The good news is that your lawyer is giving you realistic advice.

Also in the stipulation up front we identified the need for a GAL evaluator by name. She agreed to that (for various reasons).  And I wanted and experienced one with Psychological experience .

The.n wait for a pretrial. 

It will likely all take weeks/months to ply out. My wife is delaying it as much as possible (which is a lot).

By far the better option is to get emotions calmed.  Then work for mediation (the same outcome as trial but much cheaper).  But you have to convince her of this.

Unfortunately most ‘good’ advice involves influencing your wife’s  thinking in some way. And you do not control her or her thinking.  So can become an exercise in frustration...  I consulted with an alienation coach which was helpful.

So much revolves around documentation. Communicate in writing.  Keep a journal of activities. 

It will take tremendous patience.

So think strategic.  Accept that it is a marathon and you are likely to lose a lot in the short term. ‘Put your own life vest on first’ by taking care of your own health

Great tips all around - thank you! It certainly is a marathon, and I feel like I've already lost a lot, almost on a daily basis. I just filed the answer, though, so I'm hoping that I'll start to get a little momentum now.

Really need to get a hearing for temporary custody ASAP. As hard as this is, it'd be easier to manage if I were getting to see my daughter half the time. I'm hoping it doesn't take too long due to the delays caused by COVID-19, but that's out of my control.

My understanding is that the GAL's recommendation is like gold where we live. So selecting the right GAL and making a great impression are extremely important.

Mediation sounds like a great approach in an ideal world, but my instinct is that my wife is too unstable to even consider that. I'll definitely propose it when the time is right though.

I don't know if this will help at all (I'm mostly posting because I want to follow your story), but my lawyer corrected me about saying "50/50." He said, "your kids aren't math, they're people. Refer to it as 'joint custody.'"

Of course that's not how I thought (and I know you don't think like that), but maybe in this process, you might encounter someone who thinks like my lawyer did and it might help you and your child, even if a little bit. 

That's a great tip - thank you.

Does joint custody automatically mean 50/50? My assumption was that joint custody just meant that it isn't 100% one way or the other, so that's why I've been saying 50/50 to be more specific. If my assumption is wrong, and it very well may be, then I'll make that change immediately.

Joint legal and physical custody means shared 50/50. If 50/50 works for you, stating so, then that's specific. I was just surprised what my lawyer said. We filed with the court but didn't go to court, so in our case it was minimally conflixtual.

Can you phrase it as you'd be the parent most able to handle being Primary Parent?  As my custody evaluator phrased it, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can."

Eventually, when Trial Day arrived I was greeted upon arrival at the court house that she was ready to settle.  The custody evaluator had already recommended trying Shared Parenting first.  My lawyer and I had prepared for trial so my response was, "I'm okay with Shared Parenting (equal parenting time) but I will be the Parent Responsible for School Purposes or else let's proceed with the trial."  My lawyer insisted it didn't mean anything but I didn't budge.

Son was in kindergarten and I shared that news with ex's school.  They agreed to let son remain another couple months to the end of the school year.  However, ex did one too many scenes at school and a month later they gave me one day to register him at my school district.  If she had remained the school parent they would have been stuck with her.  Now that she wasn't in charge of school anymore they could get rid of their problem.

Another idea is to give some focus to what joint custody means.  Usually that refers to the legal matters such as school, religion, medical, etc and less about day-to-day matters such as the parenting schedule.  Joint means the courts expect the parents to share those decisions.  Well, pwBPD have a really hard time sharing and we often end up right back in court for those disputes.  How to address that?  Some states allow the concept of Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.  DM can even be split between parents, of course you would have the more meaningful decisions.

You are correct.  Joint doesn't automatically mean 50/50.

Something my lawyer advised...  don’t prioritize a numerical split (like 50/50) above getting quality time

As things get contentious (like hey will), consider the cooperative dynamics and what can allow quality time with your children. 

Even if not as much as you would like ideally. 

Because a 50/50 time that is hostile and undermining is not as meaningful as a lower time that is supported by your ex

Of course there may be no time that is supported. In which case you just have to let the court determine it.