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I’ve spent four weeks away. I’ve been working on myself trying to become more independent and stronger. Today in therapy she told me she was done. And for the first time ever I actually believe her. I’m heartbroken. I want this to work so badly. I’ve fought for three years for this to work. How do I reverse this breakup? How to I get by in and commitment to get this relationship to a place where it’s healthy? Her therapist told her that going through a divorce would be less painful than the relationship we have. I want to call and text her but I feel desperate. Really unsure if this is a game but I feel like she’s really serious this time. How do I get things back?

No good advise.
Maybe do everything opposite what I did but somehow came through the fog.
Eat. Sleep. Be kind to yourself. 
Don’t chase. It will be what will be.
If bpd it’s beyond your control.
Realize it’s ok to blurt out negative statements to no one for a couple years.  I can say that in jest. It’s a war zone with no disrespect to actual war veterans.

What did you do?

I’m so caught off guard. She told me in therapy a week before how committed she was. How she wants to change out toxic communication. I was excited. Super excited at that point. We got in a minor argument yesterday. She hung up and blocked me as always. I didn’t chase. Then today in therapy she told me we were done. I’ve never heard her like this. I’m confused if this is manipulation or genuine being done. I’ve been in my home out of state for a few weeks to take space and keep safe. We haven’t spoken much. She legit said in therapy today that “she doesn’t even know me anymore”

 does taking space make things worse?

Does no contact make the heart grow fonder with a BPD or do the opposite?

I advise you to read “the book”. It was shockingly eerie when I finally had a copy mailed to me by a concerned sibling.
Phrases and actions I experienced are All in there.
“Stop walking on eggshells”. 
  Best advise I can give you.
I read it after it was “over” in my 20 plus year marriage.
But it made my me understand a lot.
And showed me the things I was doing to try to save us maybe made it worse.
Or maybe it just didn’t matter.
 I wish all involved the best. That’s I can do in my situation and it beats anger hands down.

the most important thing is not to over react...in a way that she sees.

as devastated as you are, cry, vent here, do whatever you need to do (seriously, lean as hard as you ever have on your support system). but you are wise not to chase, not to argue, not to cling.

take a deep breath, and fill us in a bit more.

what led up to you going away for four weeks? why did she hang up and block you? did she elaborate beyond "she doesnt even know you anymore"?

the more we have a clear sense of what she has said, the more we can help.

hang in there.

Thank you for the response. It means a tremendous amount.

I left for four weeks because she started to become violent again. She would scream and our building manager lives next door and sends her texts. She broke a door. I didn’t feel safe and I left. She will scream when she doesn’t want to hear me say anything. Quite manipulative.

I came back to LA to work as my business suffers every time I’m gone. I come home and she says she loves me. I’m assuming she doesn’t want a divorce now... We spent last night like nothing had happened. But I have a ton of trust issues now with her.

Is their a correlation between BPD and feeling loved with money? Or is this just another unique complex layer to my situation? Today  She was asking how much I give my ex wife per month. I said “Less than what I agreed to in court.” She demanded to see my accounts. I don’t trust her in any capacity with money. I said “absolutely not” this was all over the phone. I was upstairs in the bath. She hangs up, runs up stairs, kicks the door in. Completely ruins a custom $1k door. I don’t even say a word. I’m so numb to this behavior these days. I get dressed and spent all day at the beach just doing self care. Come home an hour ago. She is now giving me the silent treatment.

Why are they like this. Why can’t she say “I was really upset. I needed this. And I shouldn’t have gotten violent.” Just to hear one sentence of accountability would help me want to be with her.

For many reasons, it’s hard for a pwBPD to take responsibility for their behavior, and much easier to blame it on their partner.

One of the reasons is they have an unstable sense of self, as you’ve seen with the wanting the divorce/everything back to normal behavior.

Also there’s usually a tremendous amount of shame and self loathing that is easier to project outside of themselves than to come to acceptance.

Have you seen this short video? https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

I just watched that. Very informative. I came back home and have a very clear head and have been using I statements and being empathetic. Last night was extremely violent. I sleep on the couch upstairs because she will ambush me emotionally when I sleep. I was sleeping and our rooftop is accessed through the loft where my couch is. She was making a ton of noise. I asked her to please allow me to sleep. This set her off. She took my phone charger and I had just been woken up and needed to plug it in. I asked for it back and she said no. She brings it downstairs and plugs her phone in. I feel very violated and like my space isn’t respected. I come down ten minutes later and take my charger back. As I’m walking up the stairs she threw a glass at my head. It bounces off my head and hits the stairs and shatters. I am surprising calm. And state that behavior is completely bs and unacceptable. She starts walking towards me stating she is going to the rooftop. I state no and that I don’t feel safe and this is my safe spot and if she keeps advancing I’m going to defend myself. She grabs a knife and proceeds to swing it at me. I back off and just allow my boundaries to be crossed yet again while feeling insanely unsafe. I’ve always just left the house at the advice of my therapist.  She uses screaming and violence to get me to leave now as a manipulation tactic.anytime she doesn’t want to speak she screams at the top of her lungs. If I continue to try she gets violent. I’ve stopped pushing for talks.  I’ve been trying to stick my ground. She comes down and wakes me up once again being loud. I try to calmly state how I don’t feel safe and how it’s insanely inconsiderate. She screams bloody murder form the bottom of the stairs. Our building manager sends a text saying he’s had enough threatening eviction. I legitimately didn’t do a single thing this time.

This morning she texts me asking me to come down and be intimate. I text back saying after what happened I feel unsafe and I need some reassurance. She states “you’re
Safe”. I text back and say I don’t trust a two word response  and I need a deeper in person convo about how out of line last night was. She ignores me. I go downstairs 30 minutes later to leave. I again say “I need to have a deeper convo about saftey and what happened last night. She pushes me three times as I’m just standing there with a blank face showing no emotion and states “you’re in my space now. I don’t feel safe. See how do you like it”. She was stating I put my hands on her last night I didn’t even come close. I didn’t even yell. I was calm and skillful. At this point i think she’s a super sick girl and delusional. She then grabs a candle stick and try’s to hit me with it and I push her away from me. Quickly grab the keys and get out.

Later this morning I have her Instagram pass and noticed she logged into mine last night. So this morning I login to hers. I told myself I wouldn’t unless she crossed that line with me. Low and behold she had sent a text to her friend with a profile of a guy she went to highschool with. Then she states “I don’t know why I’m not sleeping with him Instead of my husband”. I feel like this is just the icing and every time over found anything like this there is always more. I call her out via phone and she gets immediately defensive and states how I do this and that. Which I haven’t. Recently she has become addicted to aderall and stopped taking her Derr’s soon/anxiety meds. She states constantly now how she’s blossoming into a woman and outgrowing us. And how amazing she is doing in school. In my opinion using school to ignore what’s happening.

My hands are tied. She seems to not care. I don’t want to continue to support this person financially. My boundaries are not respected. If I leave I’m accused of cheating. When I leave things tend to get more and more distant and makes things worse. If I attempt to reconcile  I’m unsafe. I’m so confused. No accountability. I’m always wrong. Feels like she just doesn’t care anymore but is sticking around for the financial support. 

You’re in a very dangerous position with her. Very often men are the ones who get blamed for violent behavior, even though they’re the victims, not the initiators.

The MOSAIC method is a risk assessment about domestic violence https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=304172  Please take it and report your score.

In the meantime, do you have any plan should she become violent with you again?

I’m going to move your thread to a different group, where there are more members who’ve dealt with these very difficult and complex issues.

About your wishes for the marriage to recover... It's not grounded in reality.  Wishes and promises are intangibles, disappearing whenever the rants and rages flare up.  Even if she did seek and persist with meaningful therapy, no one can promise the future.


Cat Familiar is so right, you are at extreme risk of experiencing the wrong end of a police visit or a clueless domestic court hearing.  I myself have "been there, done that" — fortunately for me when I called the police I was holding my quietly whimpering 3yo preschooler when the officer instructed me to hand him over to his mother and "step away".  My son shrieked and clung tighter to me.  He unknowingly saved me from getting carted away, as my lawyer later told me when describing what happens to men when police handle domestic disputes.

Where are you in my own time line of events of my crumbling marriage back then?  In my final months before the marriage literally imploded.  It might get better, briefly, only if you acquiesce and retreat back to prior appeasing patterns.  It's not a solution, it will get worse again, sooner than later.

Accept "what is", not what you wish.  I know, we all know, you just can't give up.  Sadly, family court won't give you credit for "trying hard".  You can't fix her.  Court won't even try to fix her.  Court deals with people as they are, something you'll have to do too.  Meanwhile, a truism here is... The person who is behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the person behaving well seldom gets credit.  Not fair but that's the reality, more or less.

By then I was recording because I was terrified she would claim (blame shifting) that I was the raging and aggressive person.  Some are fearful to record, worried about its legality.  Frankly, I don't recall any member here who got in trouble for recording during a domestic dispute.  Of course, don't egg on things by waving a recorder or phone in the person's face.  I did it quietly and on the down low.  My perspective is "I'm recording myself to document I'm not the one raging or aggressive.  If someone else is raging and gets recorded, oh well..."

Thank you all for the responses and concern. Things were violent again yesterday. I did absolutely nothing. And I got some clarity on what’s happening.

I had 150 aderall from a prescription I had a few years back in the house. 6 weeks ago I noticed she had moved the pill bottle into our medicine cabinet into a spot I had it sorta hidden. We both have never had any issues with drugs or alcohol addiction. Everything clicked this morning. When I saw her move them six weeks ago I moved them back to my spot and she called and asked why. About 3 weeks ago when i wasn’t home she called and said she was using them for school and asked if i could get more. I thought this was odd but didn’t think much of it. Then when I came home this last week I noticed she was staying up super late. Usually she wakes up early. She has been insanely violent as I’ve mentioned. I started sleeping at my office and this morning I snuck in the house and grabbed the bottle to dispose of them. There were only 13 left! That means she is taking 2-4 per day. These are 30mg! Holy cow! This all makes so much sense of why she has been so erratic and violent and staying up all night.

I spoke with my therapist and just consulted with a divorce attorney. I’m really really scared of making the move but I think for my physical and mental health safety I need to get out of this. Maybe we can date after. I just care for her so much. Part of my codependency is to take care of her which I’m trying to stop.

There you go. Sad to say, you need to look out for yourself from here on out. That is a hard transition.

I was still sometimes in denial at the beginning of the divorce process. My ex initiated it, but I was half-in-half out, depending on the day. So I asked my attorney if people ever stopped the process or remarried afterwards. He had kind smile, but told me that a few of his clients had, but in cases similar to mine, most found out what their spouse truly was made of all along.

That was so very right. By the end, we took a few short-term things that cost me but would have tied me to him. It just wanted out (no custody issues). I still got a good settlement long-term.

Wow.  Find a way to stay away from the crazy for a while, especially since the meds are about to run out.  Practice self care.  Eat healthy, exercise, get good sleep.  Please read Stop Waking on Eggshells.  It was an eye-opener for me and helps frame some of the behaviors you're seeing.  Lean on the good folks in here as many of them have walked a similar path and provide good advice.  Finally, be very careful with any and all interactions with your spouse.  Especially physical interaction.  Assume anything you say or do will be used against you.  Good luck.  Como

What about filling a divorce? My dream would be to build a healthy marriage and have a great life together. She shuts down and goes into survival mode if I have any issues with the marriage. That causes me to just hold a bunch in to keep the peace and I build resentment and get angry. I don’t blame her for acting out of survival because she doesn’t want to face her childhood trauma. However, I don’t see her having healthy relationships due to this. It sucks im always going to be the guy that “abused” her in her head and that’s the story the next guy is going to get when especially lately I’ve tried to be caring and gentle when she is behaving violently.

Have any of you actually filed and gone through with it. I’m curious how she is going to react? My intent is to actually leave and not use it as a control. But I’m super scared to leave this and I really don’t want to. Which makes me feel terrible inside because I’m allowing myself to be treated this way. Maybe a month or so from finalizing we can date. I don’t trust her and I have a lot on the line financially.

How long did it take you to feel good about the decision? We’re you happy to get away? I feel like it might feel freeing to not have to deal with the daily fighting and trauma. Codependency aside, I have such a deep love for her and I understand her really terrible childhood trauma is causing this. She’s a good person and has so much love to give when she feels secure and not in survival mode.

Hey Spam591, member stolencrumbs has gone through some similar situations. You can search for his posts when you search by member.

These comments reminded me of aspects of his story:





Members here have walked this path before and are at all stages on it. You're truly not alone, and I encourage you to read some folks' stories to get a sense for what has happened, may happen, often happens, etc.

Cheers;

kells76

Separation and divorce is a process.  The final decision doesn't have to be made immediately.  We all have that dream of building and maintaining a healthy and loving relationship.  Doing so with a BPD partner creates some significant, maybe even impossible, challenges to overcome.  Maybe you can be one of the fortunate ones where things work out.   

My suggestion is to find some space away from the crazy (and the FOG) to let your emotions settle out from the pressure cooker so you can honestly evaluate the situation you are in and at least develop a plan forward.  What concerns me the most is the physical violence.  That is not good.   There is more that one story in here of people who spent jail time for things they did not do.  It is impossible to relax and be yourself if you are always if fight or flight emotional condition.  Carve out some "me time" if you can manage it.  Eat well, exercise, get good sleep.  CoMo

About 3/4 of the way into the divorce process, it was going all kinds of crazy. And I was done. A month later, I told my attorney "threaten court," and we did. They signed. It was final almost a year ago.

Do I still miss him? Of course. It's been a slow heal because he treated closeout like he treated the divorce. He tried to bully and manipulate and implement his own version of the law. But now I expect that. Hopefully it will be finished one of these days. Closeout should have taken 4-6 weeks. LOL. Nope.

Do you see how active this Family Law board is?  While surely many members don't end up here, of those who do come here out of desperation or whatever, most do end up divorcing.  Just as people with BPD (pwBPD) have all-or-nothing perceptions, so are our choices... all-or-nothing typically means the relationship has to permanently end.  While you could soothe her that you might end up dating afterward, the reality is that you probably can't maintain a "sort of" dating relationship.

Maybe you don't understand our perspective now since you're in the thick of the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) but for we who divorce a BPD, it typically can take a year or two.  By the time it's finished you'll very likely have modified your outlook.

Fortunately, you don't share children and so that immense realm of custody and parenting conflict doesn't apply in your case.

How might she react?  Like you and me and a myriad others, she is a person, and will have her own variety of responses.  She might rage that you disposed of the last of your pills and demand you fix it for her.  Or she might sweet talk you trying to convince you to request more drugs and illegally gift them to her.  Here is an observation I've repeated to many in your situation...  If it has been threatened or even just contemplated, then it WILL happen, given enough time.  She has already thrown items at you, kicked in doors, caused damage... it will only get worse.  Beware of Gifting her more opportunity to harm you.


Your choice of a lawyer will be important.  Not just any lawyer will do.  You need more than a forms filer and a hand holder.  You need someone proactive and experienced.  Have you read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by William Eddy & Randi Kreger?

Umm hey guys! I am absolutely frightened!  Look at these texts she just sent me. We had sex the other day like I mentioned. I  asked her to delete and block a guy she was following that she said she wanted to have sex with. That’s when she got angry and threw a glass at me. And now she is saying I sexually assaulted her! Like what the!

Her texts just now:

If I'm being honest I feel like you sexually assaulted me yesterday
I told you not to f me yet because I didn't want to and had pain
And you f’d me anyway and it hurt really bad and then felt good physically
so I went along with it
But I said no
And you pushed me into the bed
And then afterword treated me like PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm)
I’m still processing that.
I’m scared of you

I didn’t do a single thing and I’m so freaked out rn. Like so freaked out. I have never even come close to anything like this. What do I do?

A few things...

Whatever else, don't apologize for what she claimed.  In other words, don't validate her claims.  Never ever.  Maybe she now knows you tossed your meds she's been taking and is striking out.  Who knows, perhaps you'll never be sure what triggered her?  However, we did warn you it would somehow get worse.

That doesn't mean you can't mollify her.  For example, you could address her texts with an approach like "I'm sorry you feel that way."  You can address her feelings while not actually validating her accusations.  As are most pwBPD, she is a feeling person.  It's just so hard for us reasonably normal people to effectively handle their (counter-intuitive for us) feelings.

Also, you could then ask, volunteer or offer to pause the relationship.  One thing I learned when I was divorcing was that my ex's lawyer tried to frame me as a nefarious controller.  He started by asking whether I was bigger than her.  Um, clearly I was, I was 10 inches taller than her too.  (Duh.  Typical lawyer tactic, imply size = abuse.  Did that mean our preschooler should have been afraid of his parents simply because they were larger than him?)  Anyway, he then asked, "Do you want her back?"  You and I and so many other "I'll never give up trying" spouses would want to say, Yes.  Fortunately I instead answered, "No, not the way she is."  Bam!  I crushed his attempt to paint her as a victim and me as a controller or controlling abuser.  Her lawyer moved on.

Let me be frank.  In your mind and heart you'll have to accept there will be No More Intimacy.  At least for the foreseeable future.  Her communication just nixed that.  Don't hint, suggest or try again.  The only alternative is for her to clearly withdraw her accusation.  PwBPD are predictably unpredictable, she might swing into an opposite mood.  However, a vague "I'm sorry" doesn't cut it.  She spelled out her claim.  She would have to unspell it out.  And not just in a text where your phone could break (or be broken/missing) or the text be deleted at some point in the future.

Others may see things differently or identify alternative ways to handle this.

I agree completely. It’s going to take a tremendous amount of unwinding for me to be able to trust her again after that accusation. I’m at a loss for words.

I just checked bumble and sure enough she is there. She’s also following a ton of new guys on Instagram. Sounds like she means it when she says she wants a divorce. I guess this might be an opportunity for me to escape this.

Her EX bf hit me up randomly last week and i decided to respond tonight because he said she sent him a text a few weeks back. We chatted for an hour. Eerily similar stories. Like actually pretty frightening and very sad. Sounds like if there is one little hint of me leaving it sends her into a tailspin. And then if I try to fix things she feels engulfed. Which leaves me with zero options. The only option I have is to accept this and just take it at face value and move along I guess.

It's just what a friend of mine calls "stinkin thinkin." Of course you have your own problems, but some people's problems are just so deep and far-reaching that you can't be around them.

When I hit my "it's over" point, I gave up on trying to make sense of it and just focused on getting the divorce done. At signing, my attorney said that it was "memorable and unprecedented" in his long career. When closeout went all kinds of crazy, my attorney and I just shook our heads and kept going. A specialist we hired in closeout said she had never encountered anything like it in over forty years in the field. His attorney was emailing mine that he felt so sorry for me and couldn't believe how expensive it had gotten.

What can I say. It had to be.

That's wild! I am slightly worried with the new allegation that this is going to be a difficult road ahead. I'm hoping since we have been married less than 3 years and since I have a prenup (although not a very good one) that this goes by extremely quickly.

I feel hurt that EVERY move I make is wrong when I deeply care for this person and have no ill intentions and my intention is to see her have a happy and stable life. She thinks I was violent this weekend and that my behavior was unacceptable. I have the entire three-to-four incidents on tape,  standing there not even saying much, just watching her have a complete meltdown breaking everything. I thought maybe she doesn't want to admit it was her because she is pissed at me. It's just so wild that even with solid video of her having a complete meltdown and breaking everything, coming at me with a knife, throwing glasses and her huge glass bong at me while I'm standing there calm that I was the aggressor.

Her best gay male friend and her mom agree with everything that she says and now they won't even be cordial with me. Her best friend male friend has directly told me in the past that my wife has cut him off for months at a time and is afraid of that happening again. I have extreme frustration towards him and have voiced that to him which now he is peeping in her ear how "bad" I am. Ive straight up said to him that if you are truly her best friend then why are you not calling it for what it is instead of agreeing with everything she says. And if she cuts you off for months at a time then is she really your friend...From what I have picked up on he is jealous of me and her.

Meeting with an attorney at 10AM today. Please wish me a future filled with stability, sanity and a quick divorce!

Yes, I do wish you well.

The uncertainty was really hard to face because my finances were a mess, and I was only working part-time when it started. My ex assured me that it would be quick-and-easy. Ah, nope. The desire to manipulate and control was just too great, and he drove both legal teams crazy. His attorney talked about quitting in every phone call in those last months. I can only imagine what my ex spent because he picked one of the most expensive ones around with a reputation for running up the bills. My bills were painful, but about average for this area. Mine had an associate do the documents and wrote off a lot. Of late, most of the work has been done by my attorney's paralegal, so I went from thousands a month at times down to a few hundred. As far as we know, my ex dropped his attorney sometime over the summer, so he's representing himself now. That has been interesting.

My meeting at 10 with my attorney went well. She said it should be really easy because of the prenup and the allegations are nothing to worry about.

I broke down and tried calling her about 6-8 times over the last four hours. She just ignored my calls. Why can’t we just talk for ten minutes. I need closure.

The urge to “clear the air” is a powerful one. And one that will get you no relief. Most likely no reply.
I stopped doing it by just imagining the satisfaction it probably gave.
  But it is powerful. Still is.
My “ex” actually emailed me an innocent comment about the tv show she was watching.
 I typed a couple responses and erased.
“For who? For what? I kept telling myself.
It’s hard for me to fight off depression. I loved my wife and was satisfied being married. It was my “purpose”. And it went to crap swiftly and violently. I don’t know what the future holds... do we really ever.

Ya I got word my “ex” was on a hook up site.
I just reminded myself what my therapist told me. Always assume everything is a lie.
I was of course accused of “cheating” and for added humiliation, of incest.
  But now I get innocuous comments about tv  shows!
Life never ceases to amaze.
 Good news is I met people on job sites everyday. And I guess as long as you don’t get to close they all seem very pleasant.
Guess the key is to use the one month per year trick I read here somewhere. I’ll be cured in about another year haha.

FWIW, you may never get closure, but you may get some clarity in the divorce process. I sure did.

Closure.  Something else I forgot to mention.  My typical observation is...


And beware of repeated calls.  What if she then claims you're harassing her?  In everyday usage harassment means you're bothering someone, in legal terminology with court looming harassment is huge.  You have to take a step back.  Gift yourself closure.  Let Go.  Move On.

Good call. I don’t call her like that much. Just today. And will heed to your advice.

I slept on the couch in the house last night. She asked me to...? (Over sleeping at my office). I was then woken up at 3:00am this morning by her wailing downstairs. It felt like she was emotionally ambushing me. I have some ptsd and massive anxiety from what happens next so I hurried and grabbed my bag and walked out the door. Before I left she said “you have treated me so badly this last year. We’re not married” I asked if I should just file papers and she wouldn’t give a clear answer.

Here I am stuck in this no-mans land. Where I am not treated in a fair way. She is not accountable or recognize she has literally put her hands on me very violently the last 4/5 days. No remorse. No consequences. And it’s my fault. So I’m stuck between there and a place where she won’t straight up tell me to file papers because I feel like that’s really not what she wants. I could be wrong.. It’s like she enjoys keeping me here to punish me. And for someone with an anxious attachment style who needs to feel secure it’s a dang death sentence. I am making some progress by imagining my six year old son (different mom) being me at six and telling him everything is okay over and over and over again.

I feel like if I file she will get really upset and that’s that. But if I stay here it’s just telling her it’s okay to treat me this way. Oh and she called me pathetic this morning. I feel very pathetic and desperate. I don’t feel like I should have to feel this way by trying to repair my marriage. I’m so hurt.

I'm active in the local recovery community and am working through a bit of codependency myself. There's a lot of debate about codependency and difficult relationships, but it's certainly a common dynamic. We talk a lot about situations where one partner is doing too much of the adjusting and trying to save things, and the other partner is destroying and tearing down with mental health and/or addiction issues. Sadly, that combination is doomed to fail. Unless both partners are working on positively rebuilding the relationship while addressing their own issues, it's not going to get better.

I know people who have rebuilt a marriage from very difficult problems, but both were pulling very hard and getting appropriate help. If she's not pulling her weight and is showing signs of giving up like looking for other companionship, you have to evaluate how much effort to put into something that she's steadily destroying. 

Closure.
Interesting concept and I am sure it happens without even knowing.
I guess the thing is the “need to fix” defect I have. So even now that it is 0% conflict and the same with contact... somehow deep down I spend a lot of time just waiting to “fix” something absurdly upside down and sideways.
I guess I have the curse from these relationships.
I miss the chaos. 

Document that.  A person who truly behaves as though abused won't seek close contact again.  A neutral professional could see how it is her feelings that are in a push-pull state.  Her request should reduce the credibility of what she claimed before.  (Unless she claims you're a controller and manipulated yourself back into her private life.  But let's not go down that Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole.)

Agreed. She thinks I am the most abusive person ever. I opened the door the other day and she shrieked and fell to the ground saying I opened the door on her on purpose. The sexual Assault allegation. Everything I do is wrong. Everything I do is abusive.

I just don’t understand how my life went to complete sh*# within a matter of like 10 days. Everything was normal (as normal as it has been) then I was quickly devalued and discarded. She did nothing wrong in her head. Just an unwillingness to work through things now. She hasn’t called me. Hasn’t reached out. I have a strong feeling she is with someone else.

I keep waiting to file because I want her to come back and be willing to work through stuff. Maybe I should just quickly pull the plug. But then she says stuff to me like stay at the house and not the office. And when I walked in the other day she said “you don’t pay attention to the dogs. Give her some attention so she stops barking” that was while I was on a business call as I walked in. And she was being controlling about it and like coming at me for it and that’s never been a problem. Then the waking me up early and wailing. It’s like she wants my attention. And then on bumble and then she hasn’t been on their since I saw her and called her out. I’m so confused on how to proceed.

get centered  :hug:

i know that thats easier said than done. i know the saying "easier said than done" feels horrifically cliche right now.

but its critical. because two things are happening:

1. your life is in a state of complete upheaval, which would rock anyones world
2. your wife is in an even more confused and chaotic state than you are. trying to discern what she really wants, or doesnt want, and hang your actions on that, is a fools errand.

having a lawyer is good. you will need one if you, or her, decide to proceed, and in general to know your options. build on this. see a therapist and or a doctor as soon as possible. i know how wild my emotions were during my breakup, i couldnt see the forest through the trees, and that had nothing on your circumstances. it would help to contact domestic violence resources for guidance as well.

getting centered is the best way to know how to proceed or not proceed. determining how you wish to proceed would really go a long way, but i can understand the conflicted feelings you have.

heres the thing. whether the relationship is ultimately salvageable or not, the circumstances really arent. if i were you, id get out of the house completely. stay with a friend, family, a hotel, wherever you can. your wife may not take kindly to that and she may react - please understand that doesnt make it the wrong decision. whether you want to get back together, divorce, or just get emotionally centered, you need to stop the bleeding to help clear your head, and some physical separation and mental space are critical in doing that.

try not to read too much, right now, into what shes saying and doing. it is likely a great deal more complex than her not really wanting to go through with it.

This! from once removed.  Find a way to get away from the crazy, from the pressure cooker and let your emotions settle out at least a little bit.  Self-care.  For me, running is my "go to" safe space.  On an easy path where I don't have to think, just run.  Eat well, and most important, sleep.   Study after study shows attempting to make critical decision when under stress leads to sub-optimal outcomes.  Find a way to get some peace for yourself if only for a few days or a week.  CoMo

Update:

She went to the east coast to visit her family for the holiday. I stayed in LA. I was going to fly home but I literally had no money. We have recently been working together budgeting and opened a joint account for the first time in years. My financial controller puts money in on the 1st and 15th. I had to close down and re-open all new accounts because she would online shop and use whatever account number she please. I have stated 10000 times to NEVER use my business accounts and she kept doing it.

She had spent all the money in the account. I put more in and told her its not for her and I need it to buy a ticket home for Christmas and to pay a car payment. She goes and buys a new Chanel bag. $2,000 on hair at a salon (Which I do not know how that is even possible. Only in Beverly Hills I guess), leaving me with $280. I have no other access to any money for a good reason. Im stuck in LA and cannot fly out to spend Christmas with my kids. Im livid. We had a plan. I call her up super calmly and try to express how I now do not have money and the plan wasn't followed. She screams that I am terrible at providing and don't ever do anything for her and hangs up. Blocks me. Refuses to answer. I stop trying to connect.

She calls me on Christmas and is absolutely freaking out screaming at me because my baby momma posted a story on her instagram of my kids in front of their tree and their is an ornament with a picture of a couple. My wife was saying it was me and my baby momma and she knew that we were back together. The picture was my baby momma's sister and newly engaged fiancé lol. I just hung up. Like this is so selfish. So So Selfish of her. I was alone yet again on Christmas partly because of her choices.

Later that night I text her that I was heavily exposed to COVID (Which is true)  and not to come home. She says okay. Im laying in Bed relaxing as its the first time in a while I've been able to feel safe and feel like I have a place to chill thats not my office and she comes home. Im absolutely raging pissed. She has no reason to be here. She does online school. Her dad has an enormous house and she could have stayed in one of the any bedrooms. She then gets upset with me and starts saying things like "You just wanna f other girls don't you".

Point being I am so emotionally done with this. She says she is but then she behaves the same way everyday. Crosses my boundaries. Wont work as a team or couple in any capacity. Doesn't ever think she did anything wrong. So I sleep at my office again last night. Im absolutely livid and I have so much resentment and hate towards her.

Have you consulted your attorney about getting a restraining order?

Hey Spam-

I’m hoping at some point you’ll begin to tell yourself the really hard truth about what’s happening here.  I understand it’s difficult when you believe you love a person.  But in all honesty, when you stated on 12/17 that you “didn’t understand how things went to complete sh*# in like 10 days..”. That was not really the truth.  At all.  Your birthday and the Vegas trip were pretty recent, correct?

You’d likely serve yourself well to read back over your history of posts here.  Painful, but eye opening.  No judgment, my friend.  These relationships are so so hard.  And each time things turn around after another horribly traumatic event, we convince ourselves, we SO BADLY want to believe, we’re really on track to our “happily ever after”...

It doesn’t happen unless and until our disordered partners acknowledge and accept their deep issues and accountability, and enter intensive therapy.

May I suggest that you also read what Once Removed wrote on 12/22.  He said some really important things to you.  Really well thought out things that could light the path for you.  If you wish.

As for your W crossing your boundaries, my friend... our disordered partners do this because we don’t enforce those boundaries.  That’s the price.

She should have NO ACCESS to your business accounts.  At all.  That’s your boundary.  Full stop.

Spam - our boundaries represent OUR VALUES.   It could help you to read up on boundaries again.  If you wish for this marriage to have any chance of working, this may be the only place to begin (aside from intensive therapy). 

She has engaged in ongoing financial abuse, infidelity, direct violence, withholding, verbal abuse.  There are no boundaries.  No space.

Please... please give yourself some space and time to gather your thoughts and strength.

Sadly, when a disordered partner is this sick, we are sometimes nothing more than “functional” to them.  A source of money and “things” for them.

I am so so sorry for what you are going through.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Why, why, why do you expect she will listen to your boundaries?  You keep getting sabotaged because you enable her to sabotage you.  You put $$$$ into a joint account because you want to be overly fair and foolishly expect compliance while also knowing her spending excesses.

News flash, it is past time to get personal accounts, both bank account and credit/debit cards, that you will never allow her to touch or snatch.

As Gemsforeyes wrote, she should never have access to your business accounts, the financial risk is too great.  Same for personal accounts.  Then if/when you put money into the joint account you will be less stressed when the funds predictably get drained.

If you have joint credit accounts, close them.  Why?  It's hard to close them with balances pending.  And if you suspend the account, since it is joint then they'll let your spouse un-suspend them.

I literally have no money to retain my attorney. I've been cut off financially and put on a strict budget. Mainly because of her and her crossing my boundaries and getting me into a semi bad situation over the years. And myself not holding firm on boundaries.

I am filling as soon as I come up with the funds.

Completely agree with this. I keep hoping she comes around but she won't.

She called me for the first time this morning and says "you cut me off financially. What is happening with us. Are we seeing other people because I don't have money and I need New Years plans". LIKE WHAT! How does someone have the audacity to call and passively threaten seeing other people for money. Then puts her having zero money on me when if she would have followed the financial plan we would have more than enough. I cannot even wrap my head around the way this woman thinks and justifies this stuff...

Hi Spam,
I haven't chimed in on your thread, but I've been following it. There are a lot of similarities to my story--abuse of all kinds, substance abuse, asking me to leave my house, making false allegations, taking money out of joint accounts. Yep to all of that. And I thought and felt a lot of the same things you are. It's a nightmare.

I'm chiming in here mainly to encourage you to think seriously about getting an order of protection. I finally did that a little over a month ago. It was, without a doubt, the single best thing I could've done for myself. Whatever you end up doing or decide you want to do, I think you will benefit from having space to work through things you need to work through, and a PO can help give you that. It's hard to make progress when you're in a constant crisis. I encourage you to do what you need to do to find some space.

In my state, and I assume this is true across the country given that my state is not particularly progressive, it is free to file for an order of protection. I have a lawyer, but I did not use my lawyer to get the order of protection. It is a pretty straightforward process, and you have evidence of abuse. I've also been to a local domestic violence center and they were very helpful about the process. At the very least, find the website of the court that handles POs where you are and download the form. It's a step. 

I was not good at maintaining boundaries, and my wife ran roughshod over them all the time. The PO is the only boundary my wife has managed to not run through (yet.) I worried about what she would do, and I worried about "punishing" her. But it's not about her. It is an order of protection. It's to protect me, and it is doing that. It is protecting me from the constant onslaught of abuse, and it is giving me space to breathe. I hope you can find that same space.

Even if you can't afford a lawyer now, you can afford a protection order.  Courts and staff can't give legal advice but can provide lists where you can get free or inexpensive advice and support.  Sometimes the clerk or others can remark to the wall, "there goes a good lawyer" or "don't you want to word it another way", etc.

Court in general is rather "less than helpful" because it is to be impartial, but the individuals can find a way to assist or direct you to where you can get the assistance.

I'll share a story where my court staff found a way to shape the outcome.  I had gotten through my two year divorce.  I was in court a few months later.  My ex raised a side issue and the magistrate didn't even give me an opportunity to explain what really happened.  The magistrate was rushed for time with her full schedule and clearly upset.  My ex was upset too and said she would appeal the matter.  My lawyer told me later what happened behind the scenes.  The magistrate knew that if my ex docketed her motion before the magistrate filed her decision, the case would stay with her.  So she asked the clerk not to timestamp anything Ex turned in until the magistrate got her decision written and stamped first.  There were other magistrates and she was hoping with a random assignment it would land on someone else's desk.  My point?  There can be motivation in court to get things done.  If you go in seeking help they may very well find a way to help you even if they can't directly guide you.

Include documentation with your petition for protection.  Whatever reports you have from police or other agencies will be powerful to support you.  Avoid generic or vague "he always..." or "she always..." claims that are easily dismissed as hearsay.  List specific incidents, preferably within the past 6 months.  Older incidents may be viewed as 'stale' or too old to be 'actionable'.  Her actions against you may be actionable but if she was focusing on your child then that would be even more actionable.  You're an adult, you're expected to know how to protect yourself, but a child is largely defenseless and doesn't know what to do.  Courts will rush to help a victim like a child but a bit less motivated for a grown adult.

Hi there Spam. I haven’t posted on this thread before. I’ve looked in on it from time to time. But like you and stolencrumbs, I’m going through a similar situation. I too love my wife and have been running on hope for years. Though there really hasn’t been any real sign of hope for a long time. The logical thinker in me couldn’t understand why I was still with her. My heart saw how hurt and damaged she is and couldn’t bear to add more to that. And another part of me, probably my ego, wanted to show her that all her claims that I was a worthless no good piece of :cursing: were so far from the truth.
I did a bad job of enforcing boundaries too. I should have done something the very first time she hit me. I didn’t. Or the second. Or the third. Or the fourth. Etc. I really should have done something when she drop kicked me in the stomach while I was on all fours fixing something. I didn’t. I almost did do something this summer when she picked up a racquetball sized rock and threw it at me, damaging my car window. Almost being the key word.
But she did finally cross a boundary that I absolutely could not let go without consequences. A little over a week ago she flipped out at our son over some missing remotes. When he and I found them in plain sight she picked them up and threw them at us. Then she came at me and struck  me in the head. Our son was terrified. He had heard plenty of yelling from her in the past, but it had almost always been targeted at me. This was the first time she ever crossed that line by assaulting him. Thank God he wasn’t hurt. To make sure she never got the chance again I immediately filled an order of protection (TPO) and requested custody.
Two days later I filed for divorce.
So far, I feel safer knowing that the TPO can protect me as long as she doesn’t want to jeopardize her chances of seeing our son. I’m by no means out of the woods yet, but I can’t remember the last time I went a week without being blamed for every single thing.
I could never understand why I couldn’t leave. I know exactly how tormenting that is. I posted on here over again about that. I even proudly declared it was over, but a couple of days later I was back in the house with her.
Even now that there’s no turning back, I find myself feeling heartbroken knowing the hell she’s likely living right now that she’s alone. But I remind myself that this is happening because of her actions. As much as I love her and wish she could love me, I know that I deserve better. I know that somewhere there’s someone that would accept my forgetfulness, my procrastination, and my passive personality. But I also know that I am just fine on my own.

As many have told you, start by being kind to yourself. I think that means making sure that your safety and security are rock solid. A TRO could be a great first step for you.
Heed the advice you receive here. There are so many good people here.

HI Spam591,

You sound like you're making progress, well done. One thing before I forget, where are the tapes of her assaults/rages? Make sure they are safe, preferably out of the home, maybe with your lawyer. If they're on the cloud, I'd think about downloading them. I'm a big advocate of documenting and as ForeverDad (I think) pointed out, this is as much for your own sanity as it is for your defence.

I believe there comes a critical point in these relationships where you give yourself permission to believe the seemingly impossible... the person we love/once loved lies... a lot... about inconsequential things.

Others have suggested and I would endorse, getting separated, and getting separated for a good period of time. I don't think this is the case with you and your wife (there seems like too much is going on), but there needs to be a set minimum say 3 months, and some of that needs to be with minimal contact. Living together albeit with you being in another room doesn't allow the fear you've mentioned to alleviate. It's clear that you can observe the emotions you're feeling but I suspect that as those feelings subside living apart you will gain even more perspective over the detrimental effects this relationship is having on you (Highs as well as lows). With your new baseline and ability to ringfence the things that are important to you, maybe with a RO, you'll be able to get yourself to a point where you can treat your wife fairly.

I would stop sharing/verbalising your feelings with your W. You tell your W that you are afraid of her and tell her she did bad things after she attacked you... her response was to accuse you of doing bad things and she was afraid... more afraid and more bad. She then attempts to hurt you financially, something you have verbalised is troubling you. She's hitting you where she thinks it'll hurt... because she feels like you've hurt her. I suspect this to continue as a theme even if it's to her detriment. I would definitely consider how you protect assets and consider how you place a block on credit being taken out under your name or with any joint assets as collateral. I would also stop sharing anything you find when snooping. Snooping isn't healthy, it's often illegal, it regularly harvests noise rather than data, it provokes emotions and you're trying to get away from that... but, if you do, keep that to yourself (and here)... regardless of what you find.

Your W is obviously combative, that's going to give you limited choices with regards to how any divorce is managed. I'm no expert but there seems little to work with with regards to her wanting to seem like someone she's not (a mask), maybe in the eyes of children (not relevant). Others may see different options and any legal counsel would be able to advise but I see 2 paths... she meets someone else and moves on, the divorce becomes her idea and you just let her go with minimal intervention (this could happen in the separation and she seems to be looking already)... or... you move swiftly, implement the post-nup quickly and ruthlessly and immediately look to place significant barriers around your world. IF she can't punish you due to the post-nup, my guess would be that she's likely to try other routes.

Take time, be considered and purposeful with your moves. Don't be afraid to set the agenda, and if you are afraid make it a priority to get into a safe physical and mental space so that you can set the agenda.

NL 

https://www.samuelthomasdavies.com/book-summaries/self-help/too-good-to-leave-too-bad-to-stay/

This book helped me to put things in perspective.  Being naturally indecisive and involved with a stbexBPDNPDw, with two small children, was a difficult determination to negotiate.

Thank you all for your replies. It means a tremendous amount to me.

Is a protective order a restraining order?

Here is what I want to do. I want to get a divorce to protect myself financially and feel safe. I want to get a separate apartment here in LA but be exclusively together. I feel like this mixed with both of us working on ourselves will give this a good chance. And if it doesn't improve then its not a big deal to go separate ways. I ran this by her this morning and she said things like "absolutely not" "Im not letting a man divorce me and then date him. Its against my woman hood" 'you need to respect my boundary. It will never happen". I feel like if she truly loved me and cared about my well being she would be okay with being together no matter what a piece of papers says. I this reaction causes me to feel financially used.

Yes, they are essentially the same thing. Different states do things slightly differently and use different terminology. In my state, an order of protection is specifically for domestic violence--i.e., you have to have a certain relationship with the person (spouse, romantic partner, etc.) in order to file it. A restraining order is for any other kind of relationship. But they essentially do the same thing.

I think your plan sounds reasonable, but yeah, you're not gonna get her agreement or permission on any of this. If you make moves to take more control over your life, my experience at least, is that you're going to get major push back. One thing I've really come to realize in the past month is how much of my attention was focused on my wife and how little I did without getting explicit or tacit consent from her to do anything. It is still very strange for me to think about what is best for me, and then to make a plan to just do that. That is not what I did for 17 years, and it feels strange and somehow wrong. It's not. I know that. But it still feels like it is. If you think what is best for you is to have that space, then I would encourage you to take those steps. Your wife may feel exactly how she's telling you she will. She might not. She might react horribly. She might not. You can't control that. But there is a whole lot of your plan that you can control. And you'll be taking steps that help you. And if she chooses to do the work and try to improve things, she can do that, and you'll be in a better place if she does. You'll also be in a better place if she doesn't. 

I had to come to terms with the fact that very little was going to change with my W. I hated the thought that BPD was going to be ever present. I was changing too much to try and either appease her, or avoid upsetting her. That was futile. I was losing sight of my values and teaching her in a Pavlovian way that she could get away with so much. The double standard was beyond frustrating. It just seemed so unfair that she could express anything she wanted, but I had to walk on eggshells.
I hope that you can see that in order to have the relationship you want, she is going to accept that she also needs to put in work. I tried over and over to think of something that will click and make sense in my W’s head. But there isn’t anything like that.
I realized that it had been so long that I had even seen a glimpse of the woman I fell in love with. I wanted her to find peace and overcome the trauma that she’s endured for 35 years. But I had to realize that only she has the power and ability to do that.

I wish you well Spam591

Spam,

I can empathise with your W's feelings here. What you're asking for is very cake and eat it. On the one hand you're asking to void the marriage which is a message that you no longer like/love/feel safe enough to be linked to her, but on the other hand you're asking for exclusivity and suggesting you can have a relationship. That would be confusing for most people let alone someone with all or nothing thinking.

You suggest that the reason to get divorced would be for financial protection. I don't know for sure but I'm pretty sure that there are no laws saying that a husband (or wife) cannot take reasonable steps within a marriage to protect individually earnt or community assets being squandered. IT IS NOT FINANCIAL ABUSE to provide or leave access to reasonable financial resources, but restrict access to others. What legitimate reason would your W need joint access to the business account in meeting her reasonable needs for starters? "The Marriage" doesn't prohibit you from having boundaries.

There appear to be countless reasonable grounds for you to think the relationship should end, yet you seem less keen on the relationship ending and more keen on the marriage to end.

Relationships are a transaction, your wealth was part of that transaction if it was there in beginning or even if it is present now. You're looking to change the terms of that transaction.

There are approaches that place appropriate boundaries to STOP abuse, and provide scope for individual work/change, then potentially togetherness again. This isn't that approach.

I think it is important to ascertain which path you want to be on such that you set out with a clear objective. Being unclear will result in a confusing message, more chaos and I would predict more anger. If you are unclear about your objectives... no more suggestions till you are. Maybe put your thoughts to the board BEFORE putting them to your W so people here can help you see how they could be perceived by your W. At the moment you are fuelling the fires of her rage and I would guess that's not in your best interests. 

Out of interest, what did you think your W's reaction would be to your suggestion?

NL

its not realistic, under the best of circumstances, to ask someone to get a divorce, but date.

if you are going to navigate this, it will help to commit to one or the other: try to improve your relationship, or try to end it. be all in, or all out. trying to accomplish both is precarious.

I concur.  You can leave open the possibility of a different relationship with her in the far future (years) once you are clearly out of the FOG and she makes clear, observable, sustained progress towards getting healthy. 

Until then, please consider your health and safety (financial safety included) for the immediate future until you are divorced.  Get away, get healthy, and let her manager her demons without you.  Good luck.  CoMo

I was able to sit down with her and have a convo for about ten minutes tonight. It started off well and as soon as it was my turn to talk she abruptly interrupted me and said “You are literally yelling, the neighbors can hear everything, you are being aggressive, you have spoken this entire time” Does anyone else’s significant other do this as a defense mechanism? So I let her speak more.

I cheated on her this summer although i considered is done. It got violent so I left and we didn’t speak for eight weeks. And I had sex with someone towards the end because I felt like it was done. So tonight she stated that things will never be the same. She will never be able to trust me. And she will never feel the same about me. I started to speak again and she used the same defense and went and locked herself in her bathroom.

Then at 2:00 she calls me and is rolling on E/Molly and tells me she loves me so much. I hung up. Sent her a text telling her it’s a slap in my face that we are in this position because of her mental health mostly and she abuses me, rejects me, abandons me, and then calls me when she’s on drugs. Like what the is going on with my life...

Well it’s officially over. She’s seeing someone. I’m really aching inside. Trying to keep busy. Trying to grow from this and look for the silver lining.

My heart breaks for her. She sled sabotages the very thing she wants and is afraid of. She wants to not be abandoned yet she sets me up to abandon her. She pushes me away when I make mistakes that wouldn’t be mistakes to other people.

I’ve abandoned myself the last three years in this marriage. Doing things I’m not okay with just to keep the peace. For example not hanging out with certain friends. I’m scared for her. I’m disappointed that she will always look at me like a guy that let her down. I’m really really depressed.

I'm sorry to hear that. I know how hard it is, but let go. Your time of influence and care has ended. It's heart-breaking, but necessary.

I’m sorry, Spam.

I’ve been following your threads since you first came here and the two of you seem to have been battling it out since the beginning.  Nothing changes until something changes.

Yes, it’s very very sad and depressing.  Yes, I’m sure you see that you’ve given up things, friends in your life to appease her.  But you’ve got to know that during times of separation, if you date and sleep with another woman, that likely WILL haunt your partner forever.  Whether or not she’s done the same to you.  All she sees is that you’ve done it TO HER.  That’s all she sees.  So your impulsive behaviors, your “self-soothing” methods deserve to be addressed.  You deserve your attention.  Does that sound reasonable?

In a way, I can almost understand the fact that you did that.  Wanting some calm... But there has been so much more destructive behavior in your relationship/ marriage from your W’s Disorder.  And it doesn’t seem any resolution of any type.  From either side.  The violence continued without responsibility or resolution.  Her illness is taking you down.  You need to stop this, for you.  I am so sorry.

Whether your marriage is officially over at this point... well, who knows?  She may come back when she needs something - a place to land, MONEY.  She seems to do that.  But it doesn’t last.

And unless that’s the role you want to play, it may be high time to move into serious therapy and learn WHY this has been good enough for you.  To erect some serious boundaries. 

Hoping she has NO ACCESS to your business funds.

It’s time to really take care of yourself.  And remember, just because she’s hurting you, does NOT mean you’ve got to hurt her MORE.  You don’t need to seek the comfort of a woman.  Not right now.  I don’t know you, but I’m pretty sure you’re not ready for that.

Please stay here Spam.  Even if she calls tonight full of “love” and words.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

We members here, collectively, have had countless new members arrive facing the dilemma you have been living.  Although people with BPD (pwBPD) experience huge abandonment issues, their behaviors generally force us into scenarios where we have no choice but to end the relationship, or 'abandon' them.  It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Years ago I read a paperback, "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!"  That anonymous author did stick with meaningful therapy and recovered.  But the title highlights the extremes of perception and behaviors that pwBPD have.

Personality disorders occur when a person has mental illness to a greater or lesser extent.  Typically it is not sufficient for a person to be committed, so society has to live with them, generally as they are.  So do we.  So do you.

To a large extent, the members responding here have had a consistent message... You cannot fix her.  She's an adult, you cannot live her life for her.  If she does not want you in her life, that is her decision, for better or for worse.  It is time to Accept this reality.

Review the concept of the 5 stages of grieving a loss: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.  There are many posts you can search here and articles on the internet.  Now is probably a good time to ponder Radical Acceptance (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910).  Are you ready for the next step? ... for Acceptance - the final stage of grieving (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=72841).

She has cheated on me probably a dozen times over the last three years. Each time I say I’m done and then I come back. So the one time I do it when I stopped speaking to her for almost a full two months and was sure I was going to walk away was so much more valid in her eyes. Such much more painful. And the countless times I’ve given grace to her mean nothing.

I have a really solid therapist. She’s been encouraging me to leave (without saying so) for a year now. Last week expressed how this is the best I’ve ever been doing. Although I feel like
It’s the worst. She and I made a dating plan and outlined everything I’m wanting/expect from a future partner and she’s encouraged me to go on 10 dates a month. No sleeping with them. And limit the frequency of seeing just one. Not sure how I feel about this. You’re right, I need to do some deep searching of why I abandoned myself.

I changed my bank accounts which caused a whole windfall of issues and I couldn’t pay all of our employees due to a hold on the account. This is just 1 of so many instances where she has created so much havoc. 

I really think she is done. Her Instagram is now full of stories of her with one guy. I’m positive she was triangulating this entire time and a big reason why she would never let me back in to work on things. I feel less panicked and do not feel the need to call when I see stuff like that which feels wonderful. I am in a way excited to find what I am wanting out of life and eventually finding a longterm marriage with someone who is neurotypical.

.

Thank you for this. You’re right. I’ve given her so many resources over the last few years. Last year I paid $90k in therapy for her. Dbt. Group. Individual. Psychiatrist appts every month. I gave her an endless supply of money to an extent. I gave her a stable home for the first time in her life. The only time I experienced her coping healthily was when she was on lamictal and in DBT. She looked me in the eyes and told me she felt the best she ever had and would never use cannabis again. I smiled so big inside. And the next three months we didn’t have a single fight. Not one. It was incredible. I haven’t seen that version of my wife for more than a half dozen evenings over the last year. I feel like a lot of grieving has already been done.

Thank you for the links. I’m going to start jumping into them further this week.

I fly back to LA this week. We still coexist in the same place. I’m really nervous this will impact me moving on and I really don’t have any other options due to money situation at the moment.

Spam, all of us found ourselves in a relationship that moved rapidly, and we didnt know what hit us. and then it ended as dramatically as it began.

theres a crossroads in front of you. i would suggest that you take the time to grieve this relationship, and learn the lessons that it can teach you. many of them will not be apparent for a long time. i still learn valuable lessons from my relationship and it ended ten years ago.

for a lot of us, myself included, that did not take the time to learn those lessons, patterns repeat.

Hey Spam-

Did I misinterpret something?  You’re in the midst of a very emotional exit, yet still cohabiting with a very Disordered W with violent behaviors... you’ve acknowledged there are issues you wish to address within YOURSELF... we ALL have them.  These relationships DEEPLY affect us...

Yet your therapist is encouraging you to go on 10 DATES a MONTH?  NOW?

Can someone please explain how this will help Spam heal and find his way back to HIMSELF?  What am I NOT getting?

I’m not trying to make a joke... is this a dating coach?  Does this T understand the first thing about the situation in which you’re living?  What you have truly been through? 

Your way “out” is NOT through the attention of another person.  That’s kind of “borderline” behavior.

Warmly,
Gems

Spam, you've just been reminded by a couple members, gems made that clear, that no one here has recommended you start dating at this time.  That's because we realize you need time to breathe and recover your life's balance.

A "rebound relationship" typically fails.  How do you know it's a rebound relationship?  One way is when you find the conversation drifting to all the woes of the just-ended relationship with your ex.  (Yes, that will happen to you.  Maybe that's one way to know you've left the past in the past, when you leave it behind and start living in today.)

Recovery is a process, not an event.

Gift yourself time to grieve the loss, the chaos and emotions.  How much time?  There's no set timetable.  Comment has been made here that it could be as much as half the length of your failed relationship.  Others have stated they met their better other half when they weren't even looking.  Still others said they reconnected with friends they'd known from years ago.  The point is...

Gift yourself the time to exit and recover.  The future is wide open before you.  Relax, learn, live, yet also pace yourself.  You won't regret it.

Edit:  I wonder if that therapist/coach is, in a left-handed sort of way, saying you need to distract yourself with other people and other activities, and why there was not to be couples intimacy.  What would we here in peer support have instead recommended?  Hmm... others will chime in with their thoughts but group gatherings would be good.  So would getting more exercise, hiking, going outside to relax and enjoy nature.  Please leave one-on-one activities for later when you're further along on your way to recovery from this emotion-laden train wreck.

I’m taking time to myself. I’ve been working through why I feel the need to date. What my intentions are behind it. I’ve been reflecting on why I allowed this in my life for so long and how to not allow it in my life ever again.

 I’ve been looking at her social media here and there. She seems unfazed. She sent me a text yesterday that I won’t respond to stating “either put money into the bank account or hurry up and file papers”. I know this is to just grab my attention and it’s clear she has been seeing other people for money. She reverts back to being a sugar baby whenever we break up. It’s funny she thinks she’s going to get this huge settlement or something from me. Really interesting how she thinks.

I’m feeling free. I feel like this huge weight has been removed from my shoulders. I feel like I can now work on the stuff inside myself that she was distracting me from.

In the past I have always used sugar dating sites and had unlimited income for a while. Lol. So my Therpist is trying to get me to see that Women like me for more than just money. Which is and has been a really hard concept for me to grasp. Especially in Los Angeles. We are also working on recognizing my intentions behind my actions. Am I interested in dating because I’m trying to escape? Am I interested in dating because I’m trying to feel better? Am I interested in dating because of sexual stuff? She’s trying to teach me to be self aware and grow with a subject she knows has my full attention. Lol.

My parents have been married for over forty years. It’s a really beautiful thing to have witnessed. That’s what I want for myself.

I do agree that I need to heal from the last three years. I can feel things inside of me becoming clearer and have been starting to work through this stuff.

dating again is a very personal and unique thing, as to when, and how.

i tend to take a while. it was a solid year after my breakup (relationship was a little under three years) before i entertained it. i cant say i made wise decisions in the directions i went, so timing alone is not necessarily the key factor. it probably would have benefited me to focus more on some of the things ForeverDad suggested.

for others, it can be part of the process of "getting back to normal", part of living the independent life.

and for some, thats not necessarily the wisest strategy!

regardless, getting really straight on why you are dating and what youre looking for, and how to navigate the dating world in 2021 is about 90% of it. if dating is what you are choosing to do, id encourage you to explore it more deeply on the Detaching/Learning board. get a sense for what you are after, specifically (some of which, admittedly, comes from the experience of dating). get a sense for what other people are after, and compare the two. get a sense for what to expect, whats realistic, unrealistic. get a sense for how to approach dating when you are grieving, whether you want to get serious, or keep things light. but do the post mortem of your relationship. learn the lessons. learn what went wrong, where, when, how, and what you want to do very differently.

So we have been separated for over four weeks now. I filed papers last week. I feel so incredibly happy and free to not have to be going through weekly trauma. She hasn't reached out in any manner and it looks like she already has some new financial support/boyfriend. I got my own place and am living on my own. Thank you all for your contained support over the last three years. I honestly don't know where I would be without this board and the members here. I am going through a bunch of trauma therapy now and am working through things. Def. a long road of recovery ahead but Im feeling stronger and back to myself most of the time now.

Hey Spam-

I’m so heartened to learn this!  I sincerely hope you stay with this difficult journey... for you, it matters.  You matter.  Please understand that.

And soon, I hope you’ll arrive at the day where it won’t matter to you what she’s doing at all.  That’s when you’ll know you’re beginning to detach.  Please work toward that.

I’m thinking  it feels good to feel like yourself.  What DOES that feel like to you?  Can you describe how that’s different from what you’ve felt the last three years?

Please stay with us.  And when you’re ready, please consider posting on the Detaching Board.

Warmly,
Gems

I have been away from her for almost 1.5yrs and I just wanted to thank everyone on this board for being there for me. I took a solid year to myself and grew so much over the last year. I came to realize my codependency was trying to help her when she didn’t need help and it was bringing me down in every aspect of life to the point where I was going to either die or go to jail. Life is to short to be dealing with individuals with this disorder that do not want to get help. I am now dating someone and it’s an incredibly healing experience. She listens and we never fight. We communicate through everything and I could never imagine either of us calling each other a name.

I’m so glad you’ve found an emotionally healthy partner.  :wee: