BPDFamily.com

My exBPDgf discarded me 3 months ago after a 5 year live-in RS. Found out she monkey branched her replacement the last 2 months of our RS and is now with him. We've been in NC since she left except for a few emails/texts from her during the first 2 weeks about practical things to be arranged. After that nothing from her and neither did I initiate any contact. Although I think I handled things well during the discard and the aftermath, I'm still having a hard time and love and miss her immensely. I'm working really hard to pick up my life, hobbies, contacts and improving myself and also seeing a therapist.

NC has helped me to create time and distance to grieve, heal and get perspective on the RS, however as time goes by I find it increasingly hard not knowing when/if she'll ever reach out again. I know it's not wise to contact her, especially since I assume she's still with her replacement, and in my opinion the ball is in her court if/when she wants to contact me.

However, I keep thinking what if she does want to contact me, but is too afraid or ashamed to do so out of fear of rejection or thinking I'm mad at her or I don't want to talk to her. What if she's waiting for me to reach out to her. I know I'm most probably fooling myself, but I know she's very avoidant and also found it very difficult to reach out to people she hurt or broke with in the past. Also, when she discarded me she told me "I don't want to lose you" and gave the impression she wanted to stay 'friends', which I know doesn't mean much and can change with the flip of a dime and besides that, I don't want to just function as her 'supply'.

But is there any way I can show her the door is still open for contact, without coming across as needy, weak, desperate, chasing, pursuing and putting myself in a too vulnerable position to be used and hurt. I know I probably already know the answer and it's wishful thinking and I'm just fooling myself, but I keep thinking what if she's waiting for me to reach out first and thinks I don't care about her anymore or moved on if I don't. Or she might feel I abandoned her and in her mind it confirms I never cared about her and justifies her discarding me?

Hi and welcome Ichi

This is a bit of hard advice probably to hear but its what worked for me. I really had to detach from wondering what she thought about me. Period. It will drive insanity and i understand how it got to that stage.

With regard to keeping a door open. Its the saying, where there is a will there is a way. Shell find you and reach out. I went complete no contact and closed down comms. 3 weeks later she was standing outside the bank i went in.

The other side is you are well within your rights to reconcile and reach out to her. Its entirely a judgment call, id suggest give yourself a bit of time to do it with some weighing up to go with the emotional and still in love reasons.

It sounds like you are pressurised to make a decision. Id like to say that 3 months no contact is an amazing thing to achieve.

Can i ask, is this a difficult moment out of nowhere like a craving?

Also how have you been doing during the no contact generally?

Sometimes its a case of a difficult moment, ive had plenty during the first year nc, they could pass quite quickly as much as they appeared out of nowhere.

It's just that the longer we go NC the more it feels like she's drifting away from me, that she's forgetting about me and I'm losing her. I also keep wondering if she's hoping for me to chase her, wanting me to fight for her to 'prove' I really love her. I know she said about her previous ex that he didn't fight for her to get her back when she discarded him and to her that apparently meant he didn't love her enough. When she discarded me I made it very clear to her I still loved her and wanted to work on our RS, but I was not going to beg her for it. But she was very determined about ending it, so it seemed like nothing I would say or do could change her mind.

During the first month of NC I felt surprisingly strong, but maybe I was still in survival mode. I also felt pretty confident she would eventually reach out to me. Recently however, things are getting harder for me, I'm really missing her and losing hope she'll ever contact me again. Also I'm having heavy panic attacks, especially in the morning right after waking up. They usually decrease during the day and as long as I keep myself busy and find distraction I'm okay, but still panic can set in all of a sudden sometimes and then I have a really hard time thinking straight. I also find myself constantly ruminating about the situation and having difficulty not thinking about her at all.

Just stating from my experience.
  (Mind you my relationship was decades long).
 She jumped right into my life. Literally.
But there was the other guy she left. , the bad guy, the guy that did this or that.
   I still miss her. I hate my brain.
  But my brain will allow me the insight and calculation that I am now that “bad”guy. 
   And she never went backwards. She moves forward.
  I feel for ya.
 Powerful pull they have.
  The suffering gets less.
   

Thanks for the support Cromwell and Goosey. But I'm having a really bad day today and even wondering if posting on this forum isn't actually counterproductive in dealing with my feelings. It stirs op a lot of emotions...

Ichi.

It sure can stir up emotions.

It sounds good to take a break. I had a bit too much on my mind yesterday im taking a break too. Its great to have self awareness of when to call for a pause. Its a bit like lifting weights in the gym, the actual change and strength remodelling occurs during rest. I feel the same about therapy, a break is not just a good thing but a necessity.

Well, see you later. The supports always here just a few clicks away. Good for you.

Well, it's not that I WANT to take a break. I was just wondering about it this morning as I was in a REALLY bad state and thinking it might have something to do with posting on this forum and stirring up emotions. But I'm really thankful for the support on this forum and I know at this moment I actually REALLY need it. So please I'm open to any suggestions/opinions/help.

i was in a similar place to you when i arrived here. my ex had jumped into a new relationship very suddenly, and part of me wanted to detach, part of me wanted her back, and part of me just wanted to hear from her, and i wasnt sure what to do about any of it. after a few months, i felt like i was in an even worse place.


if you are looking to open the door with your ex, with those goals in mind, you may want to consider posting on the Bettering board, where you can work through the idea, and work through a plan, with help. Detaching is a board for shutting the door, and its a different type of support.

what i would tell you either way, is that when an ex jumps into a new relationship, there is really not a lot of space for processing the previous relationship, and thats generally by design. if you were to reach out, theres a high likelihood that even if she were receptive to it, her response would reflect that, and that would hurt. the new relationship is really something that has to play itself out. think about it...if you were in a new relationship, and your ex reached out, youd probably be apprehensive and unsure what to do with it. if your breakup has been relatively amicable, then you have probably made clear the door is open, but its hard to know what to say.


odds are youre experiencing depression. upwards of 80% of members are, when they arrive here. i was in a pretty bad way myself. a strong support system was really vital for me in feeling less alone. similarly, i was experiencing a lot of ruminating, crying jags, and daily anxiety attacks. seeing a doctor was one of the best decisions i made. all of these things at once can be a really heavy lift and make it even harder to cope or function.

Thanks a lot once removed. Is it possible to move this thread to the Bettering board?

When you say 'seeing a doctor' do you mean using medication? I have experienced depression in the past and tried antidepressants for a while, but they didn't help much. Only numbed ALL emotions and made me feel like a zombie, aside from the sexual dysfunction side effects. I tried a different AD only recently but experienced the same problems so quit after a while.

i had less luck with medication than i did with supplements. there were a handful of supplements that helped my body and mind adjust, made everything in my head seem smaller, and really got me through.

Do you mind telling what supplements you used?

not at all!

SAM-E was a big one, maybe the most effective. it really limited the ruminations. i recommend getting it at an herb store, it will be cheaper, and the grocery store stuff gave me an upset stomach at higher doses.
passion flower knocked out my anxiety attacks. i dont know how it would do with panic attacks, specifically.
ashwaghanda had a similar affect to SAM-E once SAM-E quit doing much for me

there are others worth looking into like indian holy basil, and 5htp.

so now that youre on the Bettering board, what do you think you want to do, if anything?

This x 100. They're moving forward, chewin' 'em up and spittin' 'em out.

Thanks a lot once removed, I'll check them out.

To be honest, I'm still not sure what to do. My mind says let her new relationship run its course and don't reach out, as is the common advice I hear on this forum. However, my gut says that the more time passes the more she'll forget about me, thinks I no longer care about her, maybe feels abandoned by me and the smaller the chance she'll reach out or the possibility of reconciliation. I keep going in circles in my head and just don't know what to do. What's the best way to maximize my chances for a possible reconciliation?

Also she was more of the quiet BPD waif type, never really displayed any angry or hostile behavior towards me. Not before, during or after the discard. However she seemed to be very determined to end it and nothing could change her mind. She acted pretty cold and without much emotion, but did say she didn't want to lose me.

Might add that I never knew about her BPD. She never told me she was and I'm still not sure if she's aware of it herself. In hindsight all red flags were there but I only realized it was BPD after the discard. I know she's had 10 years of therapy in the past for various problems, including emotional regulation therapy, so either she was aware but never told me or she was unaware because never properly diagnosed.

Looking back I see that she did show some awareness and tried her best to deal with her emotions, but me not knowing about her BPD made it hard sometimes to properly deal with it. Mind you, I tried my damn hardest, but looking back I should have handled things differently. If only I had known about her BPD it would have made things easier for her and me. Again, I tried my hardest to be there for her and giving her all my love, support and understanding but I also made mistakes that, with the knowledge I have now, made things more difficult, made her feel unheard and triggered her and her fear of abandonment. Me getting frustrated, irritated, defensive, angry with her sometimes really didn't help and I still feel a lot of guilt about that. I know I did the best I could with what I knew then and keep telling myself I'm only human and make mistakes, but the guilt keeps eating at me.

On the one hand I feel the need to tell her I didn't know about her BPD and regret how I've handled things, learned from it and would handle things different now. But on the other hand I doubt if that will accomplish anything and in the worst case, if she is actually unaware of her BPD, she might feel offended and make matters only worse.

And while I am writing all of this, part of me says who am I kidding, she's with her replacement right now and has probably totally forgotten about me...

in all likelihood, and as much as it may feel and seem that way, she has not totally forgotten about you. you were in a five year relationship together.

what is likely is that her energy is focused there, and she is short circuiting the grieving process when it comes to your five year relationship. it can be a hard thing to fathom (and experience), that, but its one way that some people cope.

that is partly why the relationship really needs to play out, and stand, and/or fall, on its own. lets say you were a major presence in her life, the relationship goes south, they break up, and she jumps back into a relationship with you. that would likely be a train wreck. on the other hand, if you reach out, whatever you say or do is unlikely to be something that shes prepared to emotionally deal with any time soon.

i suspect that one of three things would happen: youd get a very professional sounding pat on the head, you might get a hostile response, or, most likely, it would go unresponded to, and i have some idea of how that would feel. what is least likely is that she sees the error of her ways, ends the relationship, returns to you, and the two of you live happily ever after. the most youd probably achieve is giving her the impression that somewhere down the road, it will be safe to reach out to you.

the thing is, a person that leaves a relationship in that fashion tends to feel really bad about it, while also doing what they can to avoid feeling really bad about it.

a lot of post relationship contact (from us, from them, or from really any two people with similar circumstances) is about feeling better about how things ended...to say "im okay, youre okay". well meaning, but ultimately selfish. i would tend to suggest that that is not something you want to help her do, or soothe her feelings about. theyre her feelings to process, and besides, youll kick yourself harder than you are right now.

thats not to say we cant help you carve out whatever you might want to say or do in a way that will minimize putting your heart on the line, and give you the greatest likelihood of success, whatever success looks like to you. we can, and this board is a great place to get feedback for that. it is to say, whatever you do, you want to think it through.

my relationship ended very similarly. we were together for three years. someone was lined up for at least a month before we broke up (i wasnt even 100% certain we were broken up until she made her new relationship official). it caught me majorly off guard. for a time, i wasnt even certain it was real, i wondered if it was some sort of test. in a lot of ways, i got worse over those months. depression and anxiety and rumination were my existence. i had a lot of urges, i had a lot of fears, including many of the ones you have now, and fortunately, i had a lot of people around me to help and give feedback. today i have no regrets about how i handled it, and i can tell you, that will matter to you in the short term and the long term, no matter what happens.

one of the things that i kept returning to was that i had more power and control than i thought, or felt like i did. i reminded myself, and ill remind you, that not everything needs to be so "final". you can contact her any time you want. you can say whatever you want to say. you can do it now, you can do it a week from now, a month from now, a year from now. but now is probably not the best time to do it.


whatever you do, you dont want to act on anxiety. anxiety tends to make us feel like we have to act. some of these thoughts, fears, and ruminations, are likely a product of that. the fear of the unknown and the what ifs, and the tendency to wonder whats going on in her mind, may make you feel that not only do you need to act, but that youll deeply regret not doing so, miss your chance, make her forget you completely, etc. depression tends to make us focus on it, and worst case scenarios. its a vicious cycle. a lot of this is unrealistic. there simply isnt room or reason, for example, to fight for her or prove your love. one thing that helped me was to remind myself that i simply didnt know what she was thinking, whether it was good or bad.

whatever you do, or dont do, you want to do it in confidence and strength. and the thing is, when youre in that state, you tend to know what to do, or not to do, and you feel sure of it.

another part of it is that you are deep in grief. Bargaining is part of that process. Bargaining looks a lot like imagining scenarios and what ifs (even painful ones) that allow us to stave off the depression of grief, and yet, prolong the pain. one of the things that is often suggested on this board is to completely grieve the relationship as if it were dead, and consider any potential iteration of the relationship a very new relationship.

Detaching and trying to Reverse a Breakup actually dont look too dissimilar in your circumstances. first and foremost, you want to get your strength and balance back. youll feel stronger, and more certain about what you want to do, or not do. on top of that, if their relationship ended tomorrow, and she reached out, youd want to be in that strong, sure, confident place. otherwise youre likely to leave yourself very vulnerable.

another (and this is also easier to do when you have your strength back) is to examine what really went wrong in the relationship, how it transpired, how it broke down, and to determine whether it is salvageable, and what it would take to do so, if possible.

are the two of you connected on social media or anything?

Thank you so much once removed, you're words helped me more than my therapist did today.

What really went wrong in the relationship and how it broke down is difficult to put in a few words, but in MY opinion nothing that couldn't be salvaged or worked on. My part in what went wrong I think is mostly what I mentioned in my previous post. Except the last months of our relationship a few things happened that I think triggered her fear of abandonment, things I've said and done and me getting angry. I think that was the turning point, because she said that changed and broke something inside her and I disgusted her. That was also the exact time she sourced her replacement. Just before and during the discard she gave me a few other reasons why she wasn't happy and wanted to end it, but I'm not sure if she was honest, giving me textbook reasons, and some didn't really make much sense to me at all and were pretty confusing and contradictory. In the end to me it feels like it was a case of 'I abandon you before you abandon me'.

We are still connected on social media, but I don't watch hers and I have no clue whether she watches mine. No contact on social media whatsoever though, however a few of her family members occasionally still like my posts.

what happened? from your perspective, what led up to the point that you reacted that way?


this is a very common way to go about breaking up with someone...whether its vague answers, or the whole kitchen sink and everything you ever did wrong (or both). this is a comedy routine, from a source id take with a grain of salt, but theres some truth to it: https://www.facebook.com/justforlaughs/videos/829305134305936

there is rarely a straight forward, simple answer, or at least, the person doing the breaking up can rarely pinpoint it. so its not always easy to see where and how things broke down. it often takes a combination of looking at it from your own perspective, from her perspective (as closely as you can), and from an outsiders 10000 ft perspective.

in my case i know there were several things that broke trust (from her and from me), and in retrospect the writing on the wall was on my relationship for at least the last year. still, the end came as an enormous shock to me, and often does, to the person being broken up with. whereas the person doing the breaking up has typically, to some extent, grieved the relationship, and is in a very different place. securing a new relationship before the other is over is a fear move, yes, and short circuits a lot of that grieving process.

so there may well have been a breaking point, but at the same time, it probably wasnt one single incident, either. relationships break down in stages. and in the case of BPD, people with bpd traits are hypervigilant about our feelings, the waxing and waning of our affections, and will act accordingly.


strong move not watching her social media. its easy for the most innocuous thing to just make your head spin. dont make a game of it, or be too showy, but its an attractive thing to be living your best life, and psychologically probably more effective than anything else you could say or do at the moment. you might consider posting in that light.

Well, there were a couple of instances, especially towards the end of our relationship that I was so emotionally drained, frustrated, stressed out and desparate because of the cyclical arguments, blame shifting, guilt-tripping and little regard for my feelings, combined with external factors that stressed me out, that I acted out with anger. Kicked a chair, slammed a door, threw something, things like that. However one time, I honestly don't remember what the argument was about, I totally lost it and told her to "F*ck off, get her stuff or else I'll throw it out". That's the most angry I've ever been at her those 5 years and the worst thing I've ever said to her. I deeply regret saying that and I apologized profusely and told her I didn't mean it, but I'm sure and understandingly it triggered her fear of abandonment.

Another incident was when I was angry, more stressed out actually, and drove pretty erratically (for a very short distance) with her in my car. This had nothing to do with her doing anything wrong at that moment, but it was the result of built up stress for a period of time. Apparently this incident made a big impact on her and she was very hurt by it. I regret it very much, making her feel bad, thinking it was her fault. I could have handled the situation differently and of course I made my sincere apologies to her. After that incident she told me to get help for my 'anger issues', because she couldn't handle my anger. Now, I don't consider myself to have 'anger issues', I could definitely have handled things a lot differently and I seriously regret the things I did and said, but at that time my emotional bucket was severely overflowing combined with stress from external factors which unfortunately lead to me acting that way. I really don't consider myself an angry person, rather positive and optimistic by nature and I have never before experienced that level of anger, but I take full responsibility for my part and the things I need to work on so I agreed to get help and talked to a therapist.

But apparently the damage was done as she told me my angry behavior changed and broke something inside her and it disgusted her. During our entire relationship I noticed that she was always VERY sensitive to anger or anything that could be even slightly perceived as anger. Even the smallest of arguments or discussions felt like huge fights to her, while really we were just talking or disagreeing. The smallest change in tone of my voice was perceived by her as yelling or raising my voice to her, which baffled me a lot of times. So I imagine the couple of times I did get really angry had a huge impact on her.

Later on, when she mentioned being unhappy in our relationship, I also suggested couples counseling and subtly suggested maybe individual therapy for her might also be helpful, and she agreed with both. However, while I was in the process of trying to fix our relationship, working on my part of the problems, and arranging couples counseling, she was already busy sourcing a replacement and discarded me shortly after, without trying to work things out.

Also, the last year of our relationship there were other instances where her fear of abandonment was apparent when things weren't going smoothly between us. Like her saying "maybe you would be happier without me", and me reassuring her that I wouldn't be happier and wanted to work things out. Her telling me "if we'd ever break up I have no place to go", and me reassuring her she shouldn't be afraid we'd break up and IF that would ever happen we would always find a solution (TRIGGER). Her asking me "do you ever think of breaking up", and me (stupidly) saying that when things felt really bad between us it did of course sometimes cross my mind (TRIGGER), but nothing more than a thought and definitely not what I wanted. That I would never break up with her and always would keep on fighting for our relationship.

I am an honest and pretty 'matter of fact' guy and saw nothing wrong with what I said, however, now knowing about her BPD and with the knowledge I have now I would of course never have said these things and it probably triggered her fear of abandonment.

it sounds rough, and stressful. all of us know that its no picnic, loving someone with bpd. i said and did a lot of things i regret to this day as well. its worth keeping in mind, what a difficult relationship it was, can be, and would be, should you reconcile. this is a good start: https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

also, think hard about how much wanting her back, or wanting to speak, has to do with the fact that not only are you grieving a five year relationship, but a really brutal ending that would do a huge number on anyone, and their self esteem. i dont say that to discourage you or anything; its important to sort out, in terms of what action you take, if any.

as you do, consider what was broken (if anything) about the relationship, and what, if possible, it would take to lead it to steadier ground and a healthier trajectory, one that could work. she may always improve, but assume, for the sake of that exercise, that she doesnt.

It really was. Having a lot of anxiety this morning and driving myself crazy. Feeling a lot of guilt and regret and keep thinking whether it was actually all MY fault and I drove her away. In my head emphasizing all MY mistakes and shortcomings and emphasizing HER positive traits and the times she tried her best to handle things and her emotions. I know especially during the last year of our relationship I wasn't my best, was worn out, stressed, down, pessimistic, emotionally drained because of things between us and other factors like Covid and quitting smoking. I know I wasn't always the best and happiest to be around but I tried very very hard. I keep on blaming myself and feeling guilty that maybe I screwed up our relationship, made her unhappy, uncared for, maybe engulfed her and chased her away. Others keep telling me it wasn't my fault, that it would have happened eventually anyway but I just can't stop that feeling.

And it causes even more anxiety and the urge to 'make things right'. I also think what increases the anxiety is the constant feeling of rush and pushing myself to HAVE to feel better, I HAVE to be a better man, I HAVE to work on my part of the problems, no it needs to be fixed NOW. I don't WANT to feel like this, I WANT to be handle this situation, I WANT to be confident, strong and emotionally stable. For myself, the people around me and for her. I WANT to be in a position to be able to confidantly talk with her or maybe reconcile and show her I've changed, learned from my mistakes and working on things. It feels like I can't allow myself the time for this, rushing and pushing myself to speed up the process, for myself but also for her for the fear of her thinking nothing's changed and I'm still in a bad place. But I feel all of this only aggrevates my anxiety and it doesn't help me at all. I can't change the past and can only accept and work on my part of the problems, which I'm trying my hardest to do now... Sorry for rambling...

Your not rambling. Those feelings are very familiar to many of us. Today is another day. One foot in front of the other.
   

Thanks Goosey. Anyone else have experience/suggestions for dealing with the constant guilt and regret?

I have seen two different therapists the last months but I'm really disappointed and demoralized with the support and help they can provide. Really don't feel I'm being taken seriously. They almost literary tell me to just accept the situation, move on with my life and forget about it. Well if things were THAT simple there wouldn't be any need for therapists. They don't seem to understand the impact these relationships and discards have on a person and have no experience with BPD whatsoever. If I felt I could handle everything on my own I wouldn't have reached out for help. Problem is switching therapist is no option as there are huge waiting lists and it can take months and months. I really kinda feel 'abandoned' and like I should/have to deal with everything on my own.


That's what I was thinking/hoping too. I'm never showy, just sharing what I'm doing, trips, hobbies, my artwork, my photography. I'm definitely not posting with the purpose for her to see, but for myself and my friends/family. But on the one hand I'm thinking/hoping it might have the effect of her missing me and seeing I keep on living my life. On the other hand I wonder whether it might have the opposite effect, and her still being able to keep tabs on my life might make her NOT miss me, cause there's still a 'connection' and no mystery or wondering what I'm doing or who I'm doing it with. She might feel I'm still part of her life and doesn't really feel she's lost me. Any thoughts about this?

Just realized that her family stopped liking my social media posts since a few weeks. They kept liking my posts for about 2 months after the discard, what gave me at least a feeling of reassurance that she didn't talk badly about me and they still liked me. Thing is they stopped liking my posts right after the day of her birthday, and now I'm worried she saw them that day and badmouthed or smeared me which changed their feelings about me and stopped liking my posts. Of course I'm not sure about that, however it can't really be a coincidence they ALL stopped right after that day.

I didn't wish my ex a happy birthday and maybe she was angry or hurt about that, I don't know. I contemplated doing so, but we were in NC, she's is in a new relationship and also I wanted her to feel the consequences of her discarding me and loosing me and not expecting it to be like nothing's changed. Besides that, she didn't wish me a happy birthday either a couple of weeks before. Double standards I know, but maybe in her mind me not wishing her a happy birthday means I moved on, don't care about her anymore, abandoned her.

It all just feels like it can't be a coincidence and I'm afraid she started to talk bad about me and turning people against me. I know I can't be sure and I know I shouldn't care, but apparently I do and it hurts me thinking about it.

you werent in the wrong not to wish her a happy birthday. when breakups happen, so does that.

its hard, impossible, to say whether she had a reaction to that, whether that reaction was to push her family to stop interacting with you on social media, etc.

but unfortunately, when breakups happen, mutual friends and family are often casualties. sides have to be chosen. if she forced their hand, or not, thats natural.


there are good and bad therapists. there are therapists that are good therapists, but bad fits.

its important, really important, to know what you are looking for in a therapist, and to select them based on that.

its hard to say whether these are "bad" therapists, or bad fits. a "good" therapist will tend to let you vent, and to be, for a while, although they will try to direct it in constructive ways. but generally speaking, a therapist is there to focus on you.

i completely understand the situation when it comes to the difficulty of switching therapists. have you tried sharing your feelings about how therapy is going with the one youre seeing? tell them these things. its an important part of the therapeutic relationship to provide feedback about the help/support youre seeking.


there will be a time when this is a constructive exercise; when it will be invaluable to learn the lessons you want to take away, and into the next relationship.

when youre depressed or in a fragile or raw state, it tends to look more like what youre talking about: just incessant self blame, low self esteem, and painful thoughts. depression will have what is called a "garbage truck" effect. it will literally dig up painful thoughts to ruminate and haunt yourself with. its important to recognize this, in a mindful way, and not follow it too far down the rabbit hole.


give yourself permission to grieve. everything got easier for me when i stopped judging what i was going through, and gave myself permission to grieve, and to feel whatever i was feeling. try this...just learning to observe my thoughts and feelings in a detached way, throughout the process, helped in a way that is hard to describe: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind


posting or not posting is not going to make or break your goals. if you would like, though, do some of both. post about living your best life, and also go dark.

if theres one thing i want to get across, its that what you are going through is natural; i recognize a great deal of it. it may not feel like it, it may feel like you are getting worse, but the fact is, through all of it, you are healing (some of the hardest times for me, in retrospect, were when i was healing the most). it may not seem like it, but it will get better, and it does get better.

have you tried any of those supplements? grab some SAM-E. after 2-3 days of it, you will feel significantly better, and all of this will feel more manageable.

Thanks so much one removed, I really value your opinion and it helps me a lot!

I notice the past few days I seem a bit more able to get out of my head and look at things more objectively. It still takes a lot of effort and I still have some bad moments of anxiety and ruminating, especially in the morning. But little by little I'm more able to 'observe' my thoughts and feelings without drowning in them.

At the moment, my biggest difficulty is the urge to 'act', to let her know I realize at least my part of what went wrong and that I'm working on it. It's like "How else would she know I'm aware of it, that I'm working on things and I've changed". If I can't tell her or show her, how would she be able to change her opinion about me or reconsider her decision.


Haven't tried the SAM-E yet, still looking into it. I'm always very hesitant taking any medication or supplements, but I'm really leaning towards giving it a try.

there is no real room to do this while shes in a relationship. there is no real way to do this via social media post.

but, psychologically speaking, when a person breaks up with someone, and then observes them, there is a tendency to notice changes, even to read a lot into them.

theres an episode of roseanne that makes for a great example. jackie and fred divorce because they were very different people, into different things. after the divorce, fred tries a lot of new things, a number of them things jackie tried to get him to do. she notices. she wonders out loud about it. she interrogates him about why he didnt do them before and why hes doing them now. she accuses him of doing these things to get her back. he just looks at her funny.

its an exaggerated, comical version of the basic psychology behind it. you stay on her radar, you pique her curiosity, you look like the confident, upbeat guy she fell for in the first place. thats what youre going for.

Speaking of shows.
   My ex badgered our daughter to go her location to take care of “her “ dog. My daughter was stressed. I told her just suggest the dog can come here. That’s how it played out. I didn’t see the “ex”.
No contact
   So I’m “Walter “ in the “Big Lebowski”. Watching my crazy ex’s dog haha.
    Honestly I’m glad to be in this frame of mind finally. It’s no big deal. I know better then to be around during transfers  and have no desire (deep down )to see her anymore. It’s not worth the regression to my karma.
  The wheels do keep turning. Their wheels just spin faster.
   Nothing wrong with just talking to clouds and dogs.
You’ll get there. 

F*** it dude, let's go bowling.

Just found out the hard way. Don't worry, I didn't watch her social media and definitely not going to. However, I was wondering if she still had her job and realized I still had access to her work schedule. So I looked and saw that she had taken a long weekend off from work. And apparently that was enough to get me into a fit of anxiety.

My imagination is totally running wild right now, I'm thinking she's probably going on a trip with her replacement, or she's taking a few days off to move into his place. All kinds of worst case scenarios are running through my mind and I'm driving myself crazy, thinking everything is still going well with her replacement after 3 months and they're getting closer and closer and I'm losing her more and more.

It's just that my gut feeling is telling me that I'm fooling myself to even have the slightest bit of hope of ever hearing from her again, let alone a possible reconciliation. It feels like I've lost her forever, and all because of the fact she's taking a few days off from work. I know it doesn't make much sense, I don't know the reason of her days off and nothing's really changed, but I'm really driving myself crazy right now. I was finally feeling a bit better the last few days but this really didn't help. Sorry for rambling but can someone please talk some common sense into me?

it will happen. i have some idea of how it goes. at the time, just seeing a new, even innocuous, profile picture would send me into an anxiety attack for up to 8 hours. i would ruminate about similar things, and i would ask for the same kind of reassurances.

and it can be a vicious cycle. the anxiety can fuel more thoughts that drive you to look again.

i know youre hesitant. after months of it, when these things would happen to me, passion flower would stop them cold. its not something you have to just live with.

for what its worth, and if it helps, id say its pretty likely that you will hear from her again. i dont say that for any particular reason other than you had a very long relationship and i suspect shes not happy about the way that it ended. it may not be on the timeline you would want it to happen. it may not be in the form you want it to happen. but the odds are pretty high, and her taking off from work wont have any bearing on that either way. remember, labor day is coming up.

Thanks again once removed.


Very recognizable. It happened to me a few weeks ago. Accidently saw her new profile picture in my friends list and had the same reaction. She had colored her hair and was smiling in the picture, but it was a really forced, fake smile. And her eyes were dead, not happy but very sad.


I hope you're right, but to be honest I highly doubt it. Her relationship with her previous ex before me lasted 9 years and she never contacted him again. She discarded him a few weeks before their wedding to be with me. And how strange it may sound, it wasn't even a 'bad' breakup, he took it with grace and even shook my hand when I met him while moving her stuff. But even then, no contact from him or her whatsoever.

Although her relationship with me as far as I know was far more intense than theirs, in both the positive and negative way. According to her they had no common interests, we had many, they never went on trips or had fun, we did all the time, they never really talked, we did a lot, they were living more like brother and sister. However, according to her we had more arguments and disagreements than she had with her ex, or as she kept saying "I'm not used to arguing, because me and my ex never talked". So I don't know whether the fact our bond was much closer and our relationship more intense makes the chance of her reaching out to me any more probable, or maybe just the opposite.

You say "and i suspect shes not happy about the way that it ended", what exactly do you mean by that?

Oh, and I'm not from the US so no Labor Day for us unfortunately...  :)

i suspect that at the very least, shes a bit self conscious about lining up another relationship.

people, especially after a lengthy relationship, like to feel good about how it ended. people with bpd traits are no exception, and in fact, theres often a selfish component of wanting to know that youre okay with them, that you dont hate them.

all of that is easy to ignore right now. it doesnt mean it isnt there on some level.

Thanks once removed. I know maybe I keep rehashing myself sometimes, but I really appreciate all the support I get and I'm working really hard to deal with things and the advice I get. It's just that I don't have much of a support system and at the moment this forum helps me to get through.

I think what also makes it more difficult for me to accept and judge the situation and if or how I should or should not act, is a couple of things:

1) Her level of awareness. I mean if she was full-blown BPD and I was certain I was hardcore split and devaluated it probably would make it 'easier' to 'accept' there was nothing I could do. However, while she checked all of the BPD boxes, on the BPD scale her behavior was pretty mild compared to a lot of stories I read on this forum. She was a quiet waif type and never showed anger or was really mean or vindictive. She showed it in more subtle, manipulative ways though, which doesn't mean it made it easier to deal with it.

Like I said before, in hindsight I see she also showed some awareness. While I'm still not sure she was aware of her BPD, I know there were times she tried to regulate her emotions and she even told me she was doing it. Probably learned during the 10 years of therapy she had in the past. Also during and after the discard, she wasn't mean or hateful to me at all. I mean she hurt me obviously, and also said some things that were hurtful to hear, but I don't think she said it with the purpose to hurt me. She also told me she was sorry, that she didn't want to hurt me, was worried about me, and texted me she hoped I was doing well. Of course I don't know to what level she actually meant it or whether it was to clear her conscience.

2) Also, I'm really wondering how much she's actually 'into' her replacement. When I asked her during the discard if there was someone else, she literally said "No, there's no... Well, there's someone I like... Well, really like... I think I'm in love actually... He LOVES me" All in a split second, like she tried to convince herself. And to me it sounded like "I think I'm in love because he loves me". Made no sense to me.

3) Then there's the fact that she's extremely avoidant and non-confrontational. Even if she would have regrets or doubts and would like contact or to reconcile, I don't think she's the person to take the first step, due to fear, guilt and shame. She cut off contact with her parents once and it took me almost a year to convince her to contact them.

So what I'm actually trying to say is, her level of awareness and her being on the 'mild' side of the BPD spectrum, her avoidant personality, and the fact I'm not too sure she's really into her replacement make me wonder if it's really the best 'strategy' to not contact her, leave her be and let her new relationship play itself out.

Let's say she does have regrets, wants contact or to reconcile, but is just too afraid or ashamed to reach out, or maybe thinks I'm angry or don't want to talk to her or moved on. And I won't reach out either, because of the reasons and advice you and others gave me and are very valid too, then nothing will ever happen or change.

I don't want to give the impression I'm trying to fool myself or making excuses to contact her. I'm just trying to assess the situation as realistically and honestly as possible all factors considered. So I can feel sure and confident about my decision what to do or not to do, because apparently I'm not totally convinced yet.

what would you do or say?

what outcome would you hope for?

I don't know once removed, maybe I AM grasping at straws. I guess I just don't want to regret any action or inaction and still not sure what's the right 'strategy' in her case. And that insecurity makes me feel powerless. I guess if I can convince myself of the right action, whether it's contacting or not contacting it gives me some 'peace' and confidence I'm doing the right thing.

Don't know exactly what I would do or say, several things crossed my mind, maybe writing her a letter, just asking how she is doing and where I am at now, some soul searching I did and things I'm improving with myself. As casual as possible and not too heavy, without any pressure or expectations.

Or maybe just a simple text asking how she's doing, just to open the door so she knows I'm not angry and I'm willing to talk to her if she feels like it. Just to plant a seed to make her think of me.

The outcome I hope for, that's a good question. I guess, like I said to open the door, make her think of me again and in a different way, that I'm improving things, let her know I'm still there and haven't abandoned her. Hopefully get some kind of contact going, without pressure or expectations, and see where it goes from there. I know a reconciliation is not realistic anytime soon as we both have things to work on, and that's beside the question whether she's willing to work on herself anyway.

I guess my BEST case scenario would be:
We're both willing to reconcile, keep living apart for the time being, take things very slowly, we both seriously work on ourselves with therapy, we work on our communication together and to properly handle her BPD issues, and see where it goes from there and whether we're able to rebuild trust and a 'stable' basis for a relationship.

thats understandable. play everything out. it can help.


of all the options you present, this is probably the safest. youre on reasonable terms, and its harmless.


realistic expectations are important here.

at the end of the day, she is in a three month relationship. that would be preoccupying a great deal of anyones time and energy. it doesnt leave room for an ex, or, really, much of anyone. even in the event that it did, that wouldnt necessarily portend well for you.

opening a door would be one thing. i wouldnt expect anything more to come of it, and i would go into such a thing emotionally prepared for her not to respond to it.

Feeling so awfully bad and desperate right now. Don't know what to do anymore, can't even think straight. I'm working so hard to deal with this situation, keeping myself busy and focusing on other things, yet she and this whole situation keeps occupying my mind 24/7, even in my dreams. I'm so exhausted of thinking and feeling. And I'm feeling so damn powerless. I know I can't change her or the breakup, but I'm not able to accept it, still hoping someday we will be together again. I miss her terribly and the good times we had, I feel guilty about things I said or did wrong. I'm fighting it, but it doesn't work. I'm lonely and don't really have much of a support system. The world and everything goes on around me and it feels like I'm standing still. I feel like a loser, I feel like nothing can help me, I'm crying, I'm desperate. I feel worthless, used and dumped like trash and forgotten. I don't deserve this, I did EVERYTHING for her and gave MY ALL to her and the relationship. She moved on like I never even existed, like our 5 year relationship meant NOTHING. I'm trying SO hard, but I know that whatever I do, no matter how hard I try, whatever anyone says or does, no matter how much I hope or wish or work on myself, it doesn't change the fact that I lost her and it won't bring her back...

Yes I understand. Yes the way you are feeling is understandable. Yes is absolutely excruciating. And yes it’s your brain at work going through the stages of grief. And yes you will come out the other side. A bit dinged, a bit different, you will come out the other side. One day you will wake up singing a ditty not even knowing why. I only say this all because I feel ya, the pain is real 
  Just know it’s natural. We have all felt it. Just breathe. Reach out to a therapist or a hot line or clergy, a neighbor, a friend.
  You have suffered a great loss. You are grieving.  We hear you and understand. One day at a time.

The stages of grief.
They are so hard.
They don’t behave, they switch places, they come back, hey I did that one what the H—l!
 It is the hardest thing I ever dealt with. Your in the clutches of it. I assure you it gets easier. No easy answers at this juncture. Just be assured time does heal.  I know that sound trite.
  Hang in there.

Thanks so much Goosey...

id say is its as important to try to discover certain foods, medications and drugs that can aggravate mood and/or anxiety levels. No point in taking a potent herbal tea to guide to sleep if at the same time drinking energy juice throughout the day. Again this is another example of benefits to be gained by focusing on oneselfs needs rather than the others unreasonable demands and behaviours.

Thanks Cromwell

On the concept of using social media to get her thinking about you, stay on her radar and pique her interest I was thinking the following. As I understand a pwBPD is mainly attracted to you for meeting their own needs and not because of you as a person. Why would it have any effect, psychologically speaking, if my ex would see on my social media I'm doing well, living my best life and picked up my hobbies/interest again. I mean, it never was about ME in the first place, it was all about THEM and THEIR needs.

With a healthy person I would understand that it's an attractive thing, but she was never really interested in MY life or interests, so why would she be now. I assume the reason why pwDBP discard someone is because they're not 'useful' anymore and because their needs aren't met anymore. So how would showing her I'm living my best life make her think differently her about me and think I will be able to meet her needs.

Another thing, during our relationship a lot of times my ex gave me the feeling that she thought she wasn't good enough for me, couldn't make me happy, didn't deserve me and even wondered if I would be more happy on my own. I'm pretty sure she convinced herself of this and also thought that I would rather be on my own, which I always assured her wasn't the case.

But let's say she has convinced herself she didn't make me happy and I would rather be on my own and because of that did the right thing in ending the relationship. Wouldn't that in her mind give her a a justified reason not to reach out, because it's better this way? Wouldn't the fact I haven't contacted her in 3 months confirm in her mind that it's because I AM happier without her and fine with the breakup? Wouldn't me posting on social media I'm living my best life and doing things and picking up interests/hobbies I neglected the past years actually confirm for her I'm doing better and being happier without her. And could this actually have the opposite effect I'm hoping for and rather prevent her from reaching out, because in her mind it confirms she did the right by ending it because she thinks I'm doing better without her?

What if she's too afraid to reach out?

Emotional intimacy requires an act of courage on both sides, it cannot work otherwise,you are just hanging around with a person.

Afraid to reach out has a consequence for me, its called, 'too bad" you failed to be intimate i will find someone who will.

Where else does it lead, afraid to be open and honest? "sorry i lied but I was afraid of you finding the truth'

"sorry you only knew a fake persona and even into marriage and kids, i was afraid if i was genuine id be rejected so put on an act.

Thanks Cromwell. Anyone have an opinion/advice on my last two posts on social media usage and 'thinks she doesn't make me happy'? I'm really curious for options.

be careful about what you read. when it comes to personality disorders on the internet, misinformation, urban legends, and myths, abound.

separating from your hurt and anger for a moment, does any of that sound like the person you were with for five years? if so, do you want someone back who is only attracted to you for how you can meet her needs?

there are general truths about BPD; they are highly sensitive people. they are needy people. they over emote, etc.

apart from that, they are just like you and me, just more extreme. the problems in your relationship, and the circumstances you face now are best understood in the unique context of your relationship. bpd is just one facet of that.


i want to reiterate that posting on social media is almost certainly not a way to get her back, or to achieve anything particularly substantial.

when you are trying to reverse a breakup, you can only play the cards you have, and you want to play your best ones. putting yourself out in your most attractive light is your best card, but so long as shes in a relationship, what that looks like is somewhat limited.


this is very common to "bpd thinking". people with bpd traits inherently have low self esteem and feel unworthy.


if shes done, shes done, and throwing a hail mary after three months wont change that. again, its about playing the best cards you have, with a limited deck.

but its important to remember, its very unlikely that shes operating in this headspace, or giving these sorts of things that much thought. thats not to say she doesnt notice, or that she doesnt think of you. its to say its very easy, when youre in it, to put too much stock in this or that, because youre hypervigilant, because youre dealing with it day to day, and because theres a tendency to evaluate each move or interaction. its what is called ruminating. learn to recognize it. combat it mindfulness and reality testing. its just the minds way of dealing with anxiety, and it tends to have little to no bearing on the reality of the circumstances.

Thanks, I realize some things I wrote were oversimplified and without nuance and that's not fair. I know it's not that simple, guess I just wanted my point to be too clear and couldn't find the right way to express it.

Also, it's not that I'm ruminating about this actually. Of course I was wondering about this, but they were meant more as hypothetical questions and was curious about opinions on such situations as an opportunity to learn about BPD behavior and maybe also could relate it to my situation. Again, since English is not my native language I can't always find the right way or words to make myself clear.

I see where you're coming from and I really appreciate your help, however I can't shake the feeling that it's kinda downplaying the role of her BPD in our relationship and the breakup. I mean I think we all agree it's a serious mental illness and not a case of just being oversensitive, needy, over emotional. All the info, tools and stories on this forum illustrate this and prove this fact. I totally agree that not every problem in the relationship can be solely blamed on her BPD, I'm fully aware of that. But reading your words I have to admit that it made me feel even more guilty and regretful, though I know it wasn't your intention.

It made me again doubt whether the role of her BPD maybe wasn't such a large factor in the breakup and it was actually me that played a large part in it. I know I talked about that before and I know that anxiety, depression and ruminating can aggrevate these feelings, but there's a good reason I keep bringing it up. Like I said before, I had my own issues, especially during the last year of our relationship. I wasn't happy, stressed out, frustrated, emotionally worn out, easily irritated, had some fits of anger and also said some things I'm sure triggered her fear of abandonment, engulfment and made her feel like she couldn't make me happy, felt unheard, not understood, unwanted.

Some of this was caused by issues between her and me and her behaviour, but I realize some of it was also caused by my unhappiness about where I was standing in my own life and where it was heading combined with external factors, and that didn't really have anything to do with her personally or our relationship. Again, the reason why I keep bringing it up is because I feel there's a valid reason I partly contributed to the end of our relationship. Not the sole reason of course, but surely valid.

And that's why I can't really let go of the feelings of guilt and regret. I know I can't change the past, I know I wasn't aware of her BPD at the time and I know I did my utmost best dealing with her issues and my own issues. I also realize that she made her decision to end it and that I can't really change that, but it really hurts that her decision was probably partly based on me expressing my feelings and unhappiness that not always had to do with her or our relationship but my own issues. But I'm sure they were misunderstood by her and made her feel unhappy and unwanted and that I wasn't happy with her or our relationship.

Believe me, I know that I can't do much about that now and I really don't want to keep rehashing the same things, but I just deeply regret the things I said and did that I'm sure were misinterpreted by her like I wasn't happy with her and our relationship and therefore contributed to the breakup. And I just feel really helpless and powerless that I have no way of letting her know that wasn't the case, and that I'm terribly sorry I made her feel that way. And now it's too late as telling her now is not a smart move since she is in a new relationship. I just don't know how to deal with these feelings of guilt and regret and it's really eating at me...

Been there. 
   On of the things I finally realized is that I don’t know how she feels, what she thinks.  Its part of the process.

The few times I tried to convey how I felt to her I got totally a different response then what I hoped for. It’s self flagellation. I learned it’s better to just suffer through it while occasionally sharing with close friends and or family. No easy answer I can give you.      Don’t worry about rehashing here. I’ve done it for years.

this board explores how to reverse a breakup and how to improve your relationship should you reconcile.

part of that - a significant part of it - involves a deep dive into the role we played in the relationships demise, and how we are going to drive the change going forward, if possible. that is where the tools come in.

its not an emotionally easy exercise by any means. it took me years after the fact to get to that point.

if you dont want to do that, or if you arent ready to do that, and would prefer to move to another board for now, we can do that. just let me know.

I'm wondering what makes you think I don't want to do that? The fact that I'm talking about my part in the relationship's demise means I'm doing just that, deep diving and being honest with myself. So I can learn ways to change things. Also I've been studying the tools on this website.

The deep diving does however evoke feelings of guilt and regret, which is only logical I think. However, I know I have to try not to drown in those feelings and try to approach it in a more constructive way. I guess I just shouldn't post during moments I feel too much panic and anxiety...

Sorry once removed, I now see what you mean. What I wrote about the downplaying was mostly based on misinterpretation and the anxious mood I was in when I wrote it...

i understand that. it did for me as well.

in my case, i had emotionally neglected and abandoned my relationship. when it ended, people close to me gently, very gently, suggested to me that in light of that it really wasnt that big a surprise that my ex lined up and jumped into another relationship. at the time, hearing that would send me into a tailspin for hours on end, where id then beg others around me for reassurance that there was nothing i could have done.

im not directly comparing or suggesting thats what happened to you, by the way. im saying that i understand the pain is kind of like third degree burns. it can be difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between "room for improvement" and "its all my fault". thats especially true when it comes to depression.


you can, and ought to. but every board is going to give you a different kind of support; it really depends on what kind of support youre looking for right now, and that can/may change.

Well, what I desperately have been trying to prevent the last 3 months has unfortunately just happened. I saw a photo of my ex with her replacement looking totally happy and in love. I haven't looked on her social media once since the discard 3 months ago to prevent this from happening. However, since I still have her on Whatsapp I saw in my friends list she had changed her profile picture (small} and there were 2 people on it. So I clicked on it and there they were, looking all happy and in love, and it immediately threw me into a huge panic attack.

Damn, just when I was feeling a bit better the last few days. NEVER in the 5 years we were together has she ever put a photo of us two together as her profile picture on any social media or WhatsApp, ALWAYS a photo of only herself, while we had MANY 'in love' photos of us together. This is SO not her and out of character for her. And I'm really wondering whether she did this to hurt me or get a reaction out of me. She probably assumes I'm not watching her social media and knows using WhatsApp is the only way to show me this photo.

I know I shouldn't read into things too much but I really think she's annoyed I have been in NC since the discard 3 months ago and expected me to chase her and contact her. Also I've been posting on social media about living my life and being happy (not showy) so I wonder whether she did this as a way to get a reaction out of me cause she knows I will see the photo.

I SO wish I hadn't seen this photo, it really hurts me and I feel like I went back a few squares in my progress. I feel hurt, sad, angry and even repulsed seeing them together, seemingly still happy and in love after 3 months. While I've been reading and posting on this forum still having hope for a possible reconciliation in the future. I now feel like ALL hope for a reconciliation is lost and they will live happily ever after and even wonder if it WAS actually all my fault.

i dont know what to say apart from that i have some idea of what seeing that kind of thing is like. it sucks. it hurts. im sorry you had to see it.

you will feel better soon. the initial pang of the blow will fade over the next few days.

the honest truth is that there is no competing with the new relationship. reconciliation, any time soon, and based on their relationship crashing and burning, is probably not realistic. in that regard it is best to let go of hope; it will torture you.

youre playing a much longer game here, if thats what you want to do, with no guarantees.

Ya that’s a gut punch.
  Catch your wind.
Think long and hard before any moves.
Be rational.
Be honest of the situation.
Grieve. (Some more).
Sun will come up in the East.
  Other fish in the sea.  Reminds me I gotta start a hobby!

Thanks once removed and Goosey. Well, one thing is certain, no matter how long they will last, months or years, eventually it WILL crash and burn. And deep down I'm sure she knows. She's not healed all of a sudden now she's in a new relationship.

During the discard she once got upset and said "Why can't I just be normal?" so she is aware something's wrong with her. But when I told her the problems she was facing during our relationship will just keep on continuing in her new relationship she just casually said "Yeah, I know". Like she just doesn't care, keeps fooling herself and probably will keep on making the same mistakes. Sad really...

Im going through a very very similar situation. Discarded from a years long relationship and a month later, she’s in love with some idiot all over Instagram. It’s impossibly hard, but hopefully every day will get easier.

Yes, it's awfully hard and I feel for you aero0421. I'm sure if will get easier eventually, but it feels like two steps forward one step back all the time. It's so incredibly frustrating and exhausting, mentally and physically...

In other threads about similar situations I read that putting up the photo with her and the replacement could be a way of trying to make me jealous. To get a reaction out of me, to test whether I still care and there's still an attachment in place.

What I'm curious to know about is, if that's the case, what are they actually trying to accomplish with that? I mean, trying to make someone jealous in this way is not a particularly attractive thing to do and actually quite a turnoff.

Or do they hope you'll start chasing or begging them? I understand any reaction whatsoever, positive or negative, will give them validation and assurance there's still an attachment. But when it only helps to hurt and anger me and push me away they risk loosing the attachment and any possible future contact. It's kind of counterproductive isn't it?

if she were trying to make you jealous with the profile picture, what would it mean to you/for you?

would it feel better if she was, than if she wasnt?

It would be a very childish and hurtful action to me and a turnoff actually. And confusing too, cause if she actually moved on and is in love why would she feel the need to do that, that would mean she has still not totally let go and is playing games.

And it doesn't necessarily feel better if she was, than if she wasn't. Cause if it means she's still 'thinking' of me, it's most probably because of selfish reasons and need for validation. It doesn't accomplish anything positive or constructive.

I seriously was just curious and trying to learn what's going on in the mind of pwBPD when they do these things to make you jealous.

Hi mate,

Sorry to read this. My ex did the same last week. In 1 year relationship with me, she never shown to anyone she was on a relationship. I've been NC for 2 months now.
1 month ago, she met a guy (Heavy cocaine consumer), not good looking at all. I saw them together 3 weeks ago. The day after, she unblocked me on imessage but I didn't send anything. Last Friday, she posted a picture of their hands on instagram saying "happiness is true when shared".
What an asshole. I was pissed off, sure, but I bet she wants me to react. I didn't and I will never reachout.
It's cheap and childish. I will never contact her again. I did love her, it hurts but doing this disgusted me.
Good luck.

Yeah it's hard and hurtful Anonym2806. I feel for you, but I think not reacting is indeed the only way to go. Take care.

Once removed, I'm looking into SAM-E and passion flower, do you have any advice/experience on what dose is best for both and maybe other things I should pay attention to?

i tended to take high doses of both.

1600 milligrams of SAM-E is the max dose that is used in clinical settings to treat depression. that much is probably not needed, though i took that much at various times. i noticed max benefits around 800. it can take a week or so to kick in, its always taken me no more than 2 days. just make sure, that like i said, you get it from an herb store rather than a grocery store. grocery stores tend to contain an ingredient that badly upset my stomach.

passion flower comes in capsule and droplet form. i liked both, and mixed them. droplets are gonna be absorbed better, and more quickly, though. i dont remember dosages, but it should say on the bottle.

neither will be a cure, but after a couple of days of SAM-E youll wake up on the right side of the bed like youve never felt before, and it will make everything smaller and more manageable. passion flower will nip the anxiety attacks in the bud when they happen, and that will help your body start to adjust to the stress.

Sorry for the late reply once removed, but I haven't feeling well past days. Feels like I went a few steps back in my progress. Had a HUGE panic attack a few days ago, even felt dissociated for a while. It really scared me, luckily I was not alone.

It's so exhausting and frustrating, trying so hard to get my strength and balance back, but feeling like I'm not making any real progress. I so desperately want to feel strong and confident, to finally get my life back on track. And I know it sounds strange, but I also feel sort of pressured to speed up the progress cause I keep telling myself the only way I can handle any contact with her or a possible reconciliation is from a strong, confident and balanced state of mind. And I know that happening any time soon if ever is unrealistic, but I kind of pressure and expect from myself to be already in that strong and balanced place, to be ready for it.

I've been taking passion flower since yesterday and it seems to help a bit with the panic attacks. Today I've started taking 400mg SAM-e for the first time and also took passion flower, but I notice I'm having a LOT of anxiety and panic today. Did you notice any increase in anxiety when starting to take SAM-e? Could it be a possible side effect?

yes, it could be.

sam-e acts as a natural antidepressant/mood stabilizer. natural as it may be, that can cause increased anxiety.

i would be pretty surprised if it was having any effect, good or bad, at this point, but it could.


you can do things to accomplish this, although results wont happen over night.

having said that, give yourself permission to grieve. if she had died, you wouldnt be pummeling yourself for how you feel. its strong and confident to grieve - to not be okay.

would you say you were operating on a lot of adrenaline during the relationship?

Yes, definitely. I felt stressed and on edge a lot of the time, and like I could never fully relax.

i did as well. when my relationship ended, id have a daily anxiety attack around 30 minutes after i woke up and last for hours.

i suspect a lot of what youre experiencing has to do with that. its going to take some adjusting. the passion flower should help big time, and i would think the sam-e should as well, but the advice given to me at the time was to do some things that would remind my body of normal cues to be shocked by. things as simple as blasting your face with cold water. working out can help even you out as well.

there are also breathing relaxation techniques which can have dramatic results, though they can be pretty difficult to engage in when youre in the midst of that kind of panic or anxiety.

I'm really fighting the urge to contact her the past few days, I think it worsened since I saw her profile picture with her replacement a week ago. I talked to my brother who still has her on Facebook and he told me that before my ex posted the profile picture with her replacement a week ago, she had only posted photos of herself, without the replacement, the past 3 months.

Now I'm wondering if maybe she was still in doubt about her replacement or hoping or waiting for me to contact her, to change her mind and maybe give me another chance. And since I didn't contact her and didn't wish her a happy birthday, she decided I wasn't interested anymore and she has moved on. The profile picture change across all social media platforms really seemed like a statement, and very atypical to do for her. Whether it is to make me jealous or as a way to say "You've had your chance and blew it, I didn't hear from you and now I've moved on".

I'm really wondering if maybe I DID still have a chance and I might have waited too long and missed my chance, and that she now has decided to move on. Maybe I SHOULD have contacted her, now I really regret not doing so. The urge to contact her is still very much there, however now she's made her relationship 'official' with her profile photo it makes it even more difficult for me, as they 'seem' happy and in love and maybe it's just too late and I blew my chance.

Trust me, I'm really trying to be realistic and not just being hopeful, and maybe I'm wrong, but it's a really strong intuitive feeling I'm having. And though I understand and agree in most cases no contact is the best, I'm really worried and wondering if that was actually the best 'strategy' in my specific situation, whether I maybe 'misread' the situation and should have contacted her and checked up on her. Maybe I blew it, waited too long and let them grow closer and closer until she decided to move on.

What are your thoughts on this, do you still think no contact is the best, considering what I said? To just let her new relationship run its course, with the risk of them growing even more close? And do you think her posting the profile picture with her replacement has diminished my chances for a reconciliation?

I know I may sound like I'm rambling, ruminating and trying to fool myself, but it's really a serious question. I just wanted to be really clear about my thoughts. I guess it's easy to say "if she's done, she's done", but every situation is different and every person is different. And I just don't want to regret anything and missing my chance. When she broke up with me she said "I don't want to lose you", but I REALLY don't think my ex is the kind of person to ever reach out herself.

i think for these things to be the case, you would have to assume that shes been in a relationship for this amount of time, all while hoping you would reach out so the two of you could get back together; that she didnt simply reach out to you, but instead used a profile picture to get your attention and motivate you to reconcile the relationship.

ichi, this is a relationship that she ended, and you said she was starting the next one for two months before the breakup.

i dont say these things to hurt your feelings. i say them because i know them very well.

this is the Bargaining phase of the stages of grief. in order to break through the pain that is paralyzing you, you sometimes have to confront some of the things that hurt the most. it will break your heart to do so, and then it will start to get better.


my suggestion is not about "no contact" - a tool to use when actively trying to detach, as opposed to when you want to reconcile.

my suggestion is more about "contact to what end"? what would you want to say? what would you hope to accomplish?

Yup.
  The grieve phases absolutely positively suck.
  How you doing otherwise?
   I know that sounds callous but are you going about the act we have to do to keep afloat? If the answer is ya, your doing miserable but ok. 
  That’s why we are here.
  I reached out a few times… afterwards I was like”why the F did I just do that?” 
   Ya it’s a quick adrenaline spurt of nonsense. 
  Your doing good.
  There is no cure for the stages of grieve except time… and naps haha. Obviously I’m older because I covet naps.
It does get better.
Doing nothing is not doing nothing.
It’s doing something…. For you,  be for you.
     
 
 
   
   

Yes, she said she started to like him 2 months before the breakup. He is a colleague of hers, but from a different appartement, so there couldn't have been much time or room for contact. She told me they had only been texting for 3 weeks and it was still 'very fresh'. That's why I said I regret not putting in more effort to change her mind right after the breakup, that maybe there was still some doubt on her part and room to convince her when she wasn't too deep in the new relationship yet.


I know I keep coming back to it, but I keep struggling with the fact that I would like her to know I did a lot of soul searching and am now aware of my shortcomings and my part in what went wrong in the relationship and what to work on. I'm not saying it will necessarily change her mind right away, but maybe plant a seed so she at least will think things might be different if we would reconcile. I'm pretty sure her mindset now is "He's not aware of what he did wrong and if he is, he's not taking responsibility for it, not taking it seriously or not willing to work on it. Nothing will change if we would try again".

And what I would like and hope is to change that mindset and let her know that I am aware, I am taking it seriously and working on it. So maybe on the long run it will help change her mind and reconsider her decision and convince her to give it another try. I mean, without ANY contact whatsoever, any way to show or tell her, how would she EVER know I've changed and things could be different if we would try again.

I'm trying very hard to get my life back on track, but I'm really struggling with it. Especially with the anxiety and panic attacks that really exhaust me and drain all my energy and motivation. I try to keep myself busy but the fact that I don't have much of a support system or friends, makes it really difficult and lonely most of the time.

I try to put myself in as many social situations as possible, however due to my anxiety and panic attacks it doesn't really work or help that well. Went to a birthday gathering yesterday, but I got really overstimulated and anxious and almost every topic of conversation was a huge trigger for me. So I had to leave early as I got really anxious and depressed. It really sucks that the things that should help me to give me some distraction and make me feel better are in fact only making me more anxious and depressed.

what are you working on? how would you get it across to her?

There are several things I'm working on:

- Better communication skills: Listen better, don't interrupt, validate, don't defend, don't argue, not escalating

- BPD tools and skills: SET, JADE, etc

- Being more patient and understanding

- Not so easily being irritated and frustrated by things or getting angry

- Not trying to 'fix', rescue and 'parent' her

- Being less of a 'control freak' and not trying to manage everything on my own

- Paying more attention to my own life, hobbies, interests and friends/family, job which I kind of ignored during our relationship. Focusing too much on her and our relationship I think in the end engulfed and suffocated her.

- Being more positive and optimistic then I was, especially during the last year of our relationship when I was pretty down and depressed.


These are all things I think in a way attributed to the her ending the relationship. Not to say it was all my fault, obviously she had a lot of issues too. But these are things I'm working on to improve, for myself and a possible future relationship, either with her or someone else.

How I would get this across to her is exactly the problem. If there is no contact whatsoever, there is no way for her to see any change or realize a possible future relationship could be different, and she would think I'm still the same.

IF I should decide to write her a letter/email mentioning these things (minus the BPD) I guess it would be something like this (example I found online, but in the same vein):


“Hey Ex,

I hope you are well. I just wanted to let you  know that I have taken some time to think  about things, to learn more about myself and figure out where it went wrong.

I realized I made a few mistakes in the  relationship and I have learned from them.  [Then go into a little detail about what I have learned]. I don’t want to repeat those same mistakes in the future and affect any of my future relationships.

That being said, how have you been? I would  love to catchup with you someday and honestly,  I miss speaking with you and  sharing things with you. If you are not  comfortable with that, I completely  understand.”


However, when would be the best time to do it. At the moment it SEEMS like she's still in the honeymoon phase of her new relationship and sending it now could maybe have the opposite effect. But if I wait to long there is the risk of them growing even more close and her forgetting about me.

I just don't know and I'm still not sure if it's the right thing to do. And I'm not saying it will change her mind, but it just feels like I will regret not doing so and having tried everything in my power to reverse the breakup. I'm really trying to be realistic and if the best 'strategy' for a possible future reconciliation is not contacting her and let the new relationship play itself out I guess I have to accept that. However I'm not really convinced yet it's the best strategy in my situation and it would hurt even more if she, somewhere in the future, would tell me "If you had tried harder back then, things could have been different".

And like I said before, I REALLY don't think she would ever reach out to me by herself. And knowing her, she's the type that's pretty fixated on settling down and getting married. So to be honest, I don't really see their relationship crashing anytime soon and she'll probably drag it out for years even is she's not happy.

Do you still think not contacting her/sending the letter and let her new relationship run its course is the best 'strategy' in my situation? Is writing this letter after more than 3 months too late anyway? Do you think in my situation any chance of reconciliation increases or diminishes with time?

Good letter.
Write more to yourself.
Send NONE.
Again. And again. And and again.
Grieving sucks.
   And again. It does get better.
You can do this. I swear over time it does easier. Over time all those rosy remembrances will become realistic memory.
   Hey! This stuff is hard! 
   But again. It does get easier. One day you’ll just wake up in a adherent good mood. Hell you’ll spend a whole day not even thinking about it.
   I promise it does happen. Hang in there.
   
 

And why do you recommend not sending a letter? I just like to consider all options and what would be the most helpful and effective for a possible future reconciliation.

first and foremost, anything you may send, you have to think about from her perspective, and how shes going to take it.

shes going to think "what is this about, and why now?". she may be apprehensive.

certainly, your best bet is something light and upbeat. playing catchup is safe, and it telegraphs your intentions. i would probably not mix that in with reflections about your relationship of any kind.

more than likely, thats not a road she wants to go down, and if she does, thats not necessarily a good thing. all that telling her about your mistakes does, at this point, is justify her decision to break up.

you also have to consider that she may be in a place where she considers it best to move on, or she would consider interacting with you to be inappropriate.

so while "hey, how ya doin" is your best bet, you have to be emotionally prepared that she either may not respond, or may not be open to that conversation. it is also very likely that even if shes very open to catching up with you, it will be a one off conversation. its not likely to be anything that you can build on. additionally, if she is open, there's a decent likelihood that shes going to talk about her relationship.

are you prepared for all of that?

Strangers with memories.
Comes a time.
 

I'm not sure to be honest. So you think it's basically a lost cause, a hopeless situation? There's nothing I could really say or do to make her reconsider her decision? I just have to hope and 'wait' she'll change her mind on her own or her relationship crashes and she might reconsider me, all of which are probably unrealistic?

There's no way whatsoever to fight for her or prove my love? I know she's the type of person that wants others to do so, due to her insecurities and fear of abandonment. To prove her that she's worth it, that their love is true and she won't be abandoned. And me fighting for her and proving my sincere love was how we got together in the first place.

I now deeply regret not fighting for her more and proving my love for her when she broke up. I accepted it way too easily, without really discussing it or trying to change her mind. In hindsight I think there was still a chance and I should have tried harder and could have changed her mind back then. And maybe she was hurt and disappointed I accepted it so easily and didn't try to talk about it or to change her mind. I guess in her mind that convinced her that I didn't love her enough, didn't think she was worth it and I was okay with the breakup. But I was numb, confused, hurt and worn out.

Now I so wish I had handled it differently at that moment and sat down with her and had an honest and open conversation with her about her feelings. But I know that's too late now and the regret really hurts me and makes me want to salvage the situation and say all the things I should have said to her back then.

no, not exactly.

i just think, if you are going to have hope, you should invest your hope in things you have control over.

while no two situations are ever exactly alike, and no two people ever feel exactly the same, ive been where you are, and i get what youre going through. it was arguably the toughest thing i ever went through. i had good counsel, for which im still grateful.

if youre going to do anything, you want it to make sense. you want it to have the maximum potential. and you dont want to put your heart on the line. youd be doing exactly that, and it would amplify your pain.

it may sound trite right now. it may not sound like a magic bullet that will alleviate the pain you want to go away. your strongest card is to, not necessarily let go of your hope, but set it aside. to grieve the relationship, and slowly, but surely, emerge from that grief. and then, as youre able, to direct your energy back to what you have control over. building up your life, becoming that best version of yourself. i cant promise you, Ichi, that that will get her back. there are no guarantees. i can promise you that youll be in a stronger, more attractive place if she does. i can promise you, most of all, that you will begin to emerge from the pain youre in.

Thanks once removed. Have been feeling really terrible lately, despite the SAM-e and passion flower. Having huge panic attacks and anxiety every day and trouble sleeping every night, and it only seems to get worse, even after 4 months. I'm mentally and physically totally exhausted and still keep thinking about her 24/7. I feel totally lost, desperate, confused and incredibly lonely no matter where I am or who I'm with.

I'm trying so hard to get back up on my feet and start rebuilding my life, but I feel totally stuck in every aspect of my life. It will take at least 3 months before I can enter any serious kind of therapy, not the 'low key' therapy I'm getting now which doesn't help me at all. In fact my current therapist ended our sessions today because he said he can't do anything for me anymore. Also, he thinks I don't need therapy and he doesn't believe coming out of a BPD relationship can traumatize you. Really? He thinks it's just like any other breakup and says I just have to get over it.

Besides that I'm still without work and have been for the past 6 years. I lost a well paid job 6 years ago due to a burn out/depression. While I was recovering from that I met my ex and we've been together for 5 years. During that time I more or less functioned as her caregiver and actually put my own life on hold for her, which also meant not really being able to put any time and energy re-integrating and finding a new job.

Now she's left I'm all alone again and kind of stuck in what feels like a hopeless situation. Financially I'm much worse off now because we lived together and her income is gone now. To be able to find a job, which might also need a new education, is only possible when I'm feeling better, it's just not possible at all now. And before I'm back on my feet again will most probably be a long process. So it really feels like it will take years to finally have rebuilt my life again. And to make matters worse there's also a high probability that I will lose my house if I'm not able to find a well paid job within a few years.

And then there's also still the desperate hope of a reconciliation with my ex, how unrealistic it might be. And to even have a chance of that working I first have to be in a better, stronger, and more stable place. But since that will probably take a very long time, maybe years, it really feels hopeless right now. By the time I finally have myself and my life back on track my ex will most probably have totally forgotten about me and moved on for a long time. I feel her slipping away further and further every day and there's nothing I can do to change that in the meantime.

All these things together are causing me huge amounts of stress, panic and anxiety. I feel like I NEED to feel better, I NEED to find a job, and I NEED to get her back. And NONE of it is realistic anytime soon, and EACH of these stands in the way of the other. I know I have to focus on myself right now, but I also know it will be a very long and uncertain road. It really feels like my entire life is a mess right now, a hopeless vicious circle and I have no clue where to start or how to get out of it.

Well, after 5 months of no contact and contemplating whether I should or shouldn't contact my ex, yesterday I was kind of 'forced' to contact her. Apparently she ordered something from a webshop and had it delivered to my address, which is very strange since she moved out to a new place 5 months ago and we've been no contact ever since. So either she accidentally gave the wrong address with her order, which I think is highly unlikely, or she did it deliberately to have an excuse to contact me or 'force' me to contact her. I actually think it's a deliberate action to force contact or have an excuse to drop by to pick up the parcel and see me.

I became anxious because although I've been hoping for months for contact and maybe to reconcile with her I felt very 'cornered' and I'm not sure I'm ready to see her just yet.

So I decided to forward the package to her new address and decided to send her a message to notify her. I purposely didn't wait for her to contact me first because since she's also received a notification that the parcel was delivered to my address I was afraid she'd suggest to drop by to pick it up or even worse decide to drop by unannounced. And besides that I thought it would be kind of awkward her knowing I received the parcel and me not notifying her. So I decided to send her the following message:

Hey ****, I received a parcel for you today from ****. Guess something went wrong ;-)

I forwarded it to your address, the track and trace code is: ****

I hope you're doing well :-)

I tried to keep the message neutral and to the point, but friendly enough to show the door is still open and I'm not mad at her.

However I'm still not sure if I made the right decision to forward the parcel instead of meeting her. Since I was still hoping for a reconciliation down the line this might have been a good opportunity to see her and talk to her and in a way it feels like I blew my chance. But on the other hand I feel like I'm not ready just yet to meet her and if she wants to meet me I want her to just be honest about it and not 'force' me.

Anyway, she didn't respond yesterday, but this morning she sent the following reply:

Thanks Ichi, yes apparently something went wrong :-/

I'm doing well, hope you're doing well too! :-)

So a pretty neutral reply, still can't figure out if it was an accident or a deliberate action, and if she was hoping for contact or not. Any opinions on this? Also I'm not sure if I should respond to her text and tell her I'm doing well too or leave it at this, keeping in mind I'm still hoping to keep the door open for a possible reconciliation in the future.

i dont think you blew anything.

this was a short, professional/business like exchange. it didnt leave a lot of room for further interaction.

it would be chasing to then try to make more of it, after the fact.

if you want to talk to her, why not just do it, directly?

Do you think I should have handled it differently, less professional and more upbeat and spontaneous?


I haven't responded yet, still considering it. I was thinking just replying "Good to hear, I'm doing well too". Or do you think that's too much, too eager and I should not reply at all? I'm afraid if I don't reply she takes it as a rejection or like I don't care to answer her? I don't want to give her the feeling I 'closed the door in her face' when contact is finally established and it maybe took her some courage to reply to me. If the parcel delivery was a deliberate action to try to meet me maybe she was irritated or disappointed her plan failed?


What do you mean by that?

that depends on what you want to achieve. one could try, but i dont think that returning her mail is much of a way in. id have handled it exactly the same way.


ichi, i just dont think shes giving it the same level of thought. you returned her package to her. you both said "hope youre doing well".

if it were her plan to have something deliberately delivered to you, the wrong person, in hopes that you would reach out to her, its a very convoluted and confusing plan, and it might cause her to rethink her planning.


i mean if you want to talk to her, then talk to her. send her a text and ask how shes doing. i would wait a few days, and not use the package as the way in; "good to hear, im doing well too" is not a way in, it doesnt give her anything to respond to.

Doesn't that kind of go against your earlier advice to not 'intrude' in her new relationship? And I'm still not sure if she's open to any real conversation and in what mindset she's in. I mean at least she responded to my message, but it was pretty neutral and not really something I could gauge her feelings with. I don't want to give her the impression I'm chasing her. Also, I think it would be weird to ask her how she's doing since I already did and she already responded to that.

I know it makes no sense but I keep overanalyzing her short reply and everytime I read something different in it because it's so neutral. She says she's doing well but one moment I'm convinced she's just saying so and she's not really happy at all and 10 seconds later I'm convinced she's perfectly happy and everything's going great for her. It just doesn't give me anything to work with or how she's really feeling.

And to be honest, although I would really like to talk to her, maybe I'm afraid of the outcome of the conversation. I'm not sure if I could handle her talking about her new relationship, how happy she is and that she maybe totally moved on and fully closed the chapter of us.

Before the parcel issue I had kind of hoped that our first conversation after no contact would have at least given me some more clarity, but I'm not any wiser now.

im not telling you to send her a message. im telling you that if youre going to send her a message, be straight up.


it was a warm reply, directly proportionate with what you sent her. "im doing well, how are you?". "im doing well, hope you are too". it was exactly what was called for.


Ichi, i want to get across that i was a hardcore ruminator. every direct interaction, every indirect interaction.

this was an exchange that would only tell you the most obvious things about the exchange. i got your package, here you are, hope youre doing well. thank you, i am, hope you are too. theres really no more to read into it, or less to read into it. very professional, very business like. at most, you can read into it that she has positive feelings toward you and sees you as a nice guy. thats not a bad thing, and its something you can work with. but you have to put that into the context of the fact that shes been with this guy for 5ish months. its not a question of intruding. you cant compete with a new relationship in its honeymoon period, no one can, it is what it is and its something that has to play out.

its not an exchange i would try to build on, whether i was you, or her. it was a positive exchange. you have that going for you, and that has value.

Thanks once removed, your post helped me to put things into perspective somewhat. I decided not to respond to her reply as, like you said, it wouldn't give her much to reply to anyway and it isn't something to really build on.

Haven't heard from her after that. However, 2 days after the parcel issue my niece, who is a really close friend of mine and also got along well with my ex, told me that my ex's father had sent her a friend request on Facebook. Which is really strange since they hardly know each other, only seen each other once years ago, and I can't come up with a reason why he would want to contact her. She didn't accept the request, however I'm wondering about all of this. First the parcel thing, then the friend request. It could all just be a coincidence, but I really doubt it to be honest.

My brother came up with the following possible scenarios, which I think are kinda interesting:

1) He thinks either my ex actually isn't really doing that well, hence the possible deliberate parcel delivery as an excuse to meet me and talk to me in person, which failed. Then she started to have doubts whether I was avoiding her or willing to see her at all. She talked about this with her father and since she was afraid to ask me about this directly or check with someone close to me herself, for the fear of being rejected, she asked her father to contact a close friend of mine about her wellbeing and to check about my current mindset towards my ex.

2) Or, he thought, maybe my ex planned the possible deliberate parcel delivery as an excuse to meet me and talk to me in person in the hope to just catch up as 'friends', since she mentioned at the breakup that she didn't want to lose me. This plan failed. Then she started to have doubts whether I was avoiding her or willing to see her at all or maybe even started worrying about my wellbeing since I didn't reply to her about how I was doing. She talked about this with her father and since she was afraid to ask me about this directly or check with someone close to me herself, she asked her father to contact a close friend of mine to check about my current mindset towards my ex or about my wellbeing and how I'm doing.

Don't worry though, It's not that I'm driving myself crazy about this, just thought they were interesting scenarios. It still could be all a coincidence, but strange it is...