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I think high-functioning BPDs who discarded their partners won't try contacting their exes out of shame, especially if they think their exes now suspect they have BPD.

Strange the way my relationship developed. Almost from the beginning, my ex began detailing her unconventional thinking: the way simple things caused her paranoia; the way she kept mentioning the word autonomy, although she never really connoted what that word meant for her; the way she told me how she used to dump her boyfriends if they started liking her because if they did, then there was obviously something wrong with them; or she told me how she picked boyfriends who were unavailable; she detailed her past impulsive behavior with addiction; how her parents neglected her; she told me how difficult it was to accept criticism and asked me to state my criticisms in a certain way; her lack of self-esteem, and confidence, and persistent sense of shame; and other traits and behaviors common with BPDs. Looking back, she was literally providing me with a bulleted list of symptoms that read like a diagnosis out of a Psychology Today article.

I don't know if she was purposely doing this.

Was she assessing to see if I knew anything about BPD? I did not. Once she determined this, did she then move forward with the relationship, understanding how she would now be able to manipulate me because I was so in love with her? Did she know what she was getting me into? I always had this strong intuition that she was only with me in the moment because I was good for her. I do believe she loved me, but maybe only as much as her love was a portion of her life-long ploy to avoid abandonment and pain. When after a week of strange hyper-vigilance and questioning she abruptly dumped me and blocked me because I started criticizing her because I felt used, lied to, and unsupported. I wrote her an email telling her that she was not well. That her past was still triggering her. She responded that this was not true. "I kept you current," is what she told me when I said it was obvious that I had somehow triggered past trauma. She's a therapist and she definitely manipulated me in certain ways throughout our year-long relationship, I now know.

When she broke up with me over the phone, it was the first time we split up. It's been more than two months of no contact, and I don't think she'll ever contact me again. Severed. The intuition I have about that, is as strong as the intuition I had about her ability to be cold and callous, which came all too true when she discarded me.

I always chose to believe that her love for me was real, but it's possible that I was the right person for her at the right time, and that I brought her some spiritual, intellectual, and intimate nourishment in a way that she hadn't had in a long time. She was hungry for it, and I provided the perfect feast.

I don't think she'll ever contact me again because she knows how fully I understand her mental condition, which also had definite signs of Paranoid Personality Disorder - very concrete signs. Show won't contact me out of shame since she is high-functioning.

Hey Rob66,

Is that a common pattern among people with high functioning BPD? To not reach out or recycle due to shame of what they did? My ex also hasn’t reached out at all in any form and it’s been 2 months and a week since we broke up.

Deep Blue

I'm not really sure. I'm learning as I go along. I'm sure some high-functioning BPDs break no contact and some don't. It's a little challenging to accept that after such an amazing and  life-changing year a person would not contact their ex; but then again, her personality challenges don't necessarily lend themselves to a traditional pattern of thinking or behavior. 

Again, I am 99% sure she will not. Only because certainty is rarely so certain. lol

I experienced a lot of this too Rob66.  I'm moved away from using the term "high-functioning" after a post that Poppy2 made and pointed out they are actually "low-functioning children" or something to that affect.  The truth is somewhere in between.  Very good at maintaining a front in the right conditions, is what I'd say.

My BPDex said she was "awkward", early on, which was to say the least.  She didn't give me tips on handling criticism but instead would say things like "If you dish it out, you have to be able to take it".  I'd point out situations where she dished it out, and she couldn't take it and she'd frown and grow silent.  I think the worst thing for someone with BPD is to have a partner with a good memory (enter me).  She hated me for that.

I think she knew more about herself and her condition then she let on.  She would tell me to just let her alone, when she would start to cry and become emotionally upset.  As if she was saying, "It's just Mr. Hyde coming out, he'll go away, this isn't major event".  Problem is, she was nearly constantly in this state at least when I was around.

There were clues in her past relationships as she let it all out on a phone call one day.  She said she broke up with one guy because he wanted her to come to Thanksgiving dinner with his family.  She didn't want to, used work as an excuse. Relationship=ended.  She made up excuses repeatedly for not meeting my family and even friends.  That's a thing, it seems.  I'm sure it was an ultimatum and you can read up on the condition to learn they don't handle those well (about as good as criticism of any sort).

She broke up with one guy because he'd get drunk at Sports Bars watching the Detroit Lions lose. She could be the [less crazy] caretaker in that situation and smooth it over with the wait staff.  Breaking up with him made sense to me, I mean a Detroit Lions fan, C'mon...only thing worse would be a Jets fan?  lol

There was a guy who had a BMW motorcycle, she just said "that was fun".  He had a shiny object and looked pretty in leather I'm guessing.

There was a musician, guitar player, she was really into in college.  That maybe lasted several years.  Sounds like he was the emotionally unavailable type and broke her heart (or whatever passed for that at the time).

One funny thing is that at least three of her longer term boyfriends (including me) were Packer fans.  She hated the Packers, her team is Purple.  Her last r/s which allegedly lasted 10 years, the guy was from Green Bay and had family there.  Just so you know, there currently isn't a procedure to remove the "Packer Fan" from you if you grow up in Green Bay.  You bleed green and gold.

It seemed to me she was attracted to certain type, and I must've fit the bill in certain ways.  The cycle for her continued to play out in the same disappointing and dysfunctional way as it always had.  One night, early on, post coitus she started crying.  I asked, "What's wrong?" She said through the tears, "It just doesn't matter, it just won't work out, 1 year or 10 years, it won't work!"

I didn't know what she was talking about, she did.

Maybe, but I wouldn't assume that. Our mutual therapist who diagnosed him told me to expect him to periodically reappear because he was in so much denial that he'd keep thinking he could somehow fix things.

It was a marriage of several decades that ended. He was the one who took off far away when we separated, and then kept popping up, claiming he was "all better." His family claimed that too. I bought that somewhat but finally took reconciliation off the table because I wasn't seeing it at all. What he said would be a "quick and easy" divorce became a long, expensive matter that made no sense. He just could not let go, and then did the same thing in closeout. It was years versus months.

Then he recently contacted me again, nearly a year since the last time. It involved our adult children that he hasn't talked to in over four years, and yes, more denial. He thinks he can fix things with them by flipping a switch and pretending nothing happened. Thankfully I have a good relationship with them, but his issues with them are none of my business. I'm not a go-between at all.

Sure, I believe that there is a lot of shame buried deep which is part of denial, but I fully expect to keep hearing from him periodically.

She made up excuses repeatedly for not meeting my family and even friends.  That's a thing, it seems.  I'm sure it was an ultimatum and you can read up on the condition to learn they don't handle those well (about as good as criticism of any sort).

Still screwing up the highlighting feature. lol

Hi rob66

what stands out for me in your question about manipulation is her occupation - she is a therapist.

it stands to reason she could be better than average at emotional and psychological manipulation - if - she chose to.

There is something not yet talked about in this and it struck me since the topic title itself.

do you want to hear from her? do you miss her?

its okay if you do.

I miss her completely. Do I want to hear from her? Of course I do. But I'm ok with that not happening.

She always described her ex-husband as a master manipulator who got off on pitting people against themselves; on manipulating others around him. (He died of a heroine overdose three years ago, but they were already divorced) I sensed that, at times I was being manipulated, sometimes surreptitiously, sometimes egregiously. In retrospect, I know I was manipulated by my ex.

Once, when she was describing her husband's manipulative tendencies to me, I remember looking at her and thinking, "That's kind of what you do."

I glanced over so many red flags, and my own intuition during this relationship. So the question arose, why? Working on my therapist with that.

Give this man a BINGO!  You may choose your prize...only 300 more and you get the giant Panda Bear!

I know what you are talking about even without all the words filled out.  My ex was  masterful at it.  It may be part of their Projection schema.  She knew to say that I was engaging (or others) in a behavior before it was even clear that behavior was evident.  So skillful was she that I would wonder, 'am I manipulating her by asking her to go to lunch at noon?'   'I haven't seen her in 10 days, is having lunch too controlling (for a girl like her)?'

Good thing you didn't say what you were thinking, you likely would've faced immediate punishment and retribution.

AdMeliora:

Lol - Ok, describe to me exactly why I scored BINGO? Is that because I knew I was being manipulated, or because I realized that the emotional abuse she experienced during her 20-something year marriage is what she was now directing at me?

BINGO!, bingo!  A Bingo²?   Mostly the first, but yes on the second.

shame only works if it is actually taken on board and experienced.

you give too much credit to the similarity of yourself and the (now out of proximity) "opponnent"

This a really interesting discussion.  The things Rob tells are simular to what happened in my relation and why I have so many questions and stick in a "i did it wrong, why did I not see that" state of mind for months now.

In retrospective My BPD ex gave my signs telling she there somewhere there was a problem.
In our first phase our talks always were about her ex, his manipulation, keeping her short, no direct financial access, control and lack of interest and attention. I felt so sorry for her, I did not see that she had a part to in his behaviour. Because of all the PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm) she was in and her constant diversion to the behaviour of her ex, we never talked about us and our relation. I gave her what she was missing, but later on she accused me of being even more bad than her ex. From the beginning there were red flags and I ignored them all. I analyzed them, my guts told me to do something with the feeling, but when I was with her,  I melted completely and forgot all of them.

One moment I told her I loved her, and she was so sweet. She petrified and told me: "no erfanovich, I am not sweet".
Maybe this was the biggest red flag I ever got from her.
As Rob666 tells, I see a lot of shame in her behaviour. As our relation slowly fell apart I worked harder to let it work. In a lot of occasions when I met her she blushed. I always asked her her why she blushed, she told me I made her shy. Why? Because I was so beautifull she said. My guts told me she was ashamed for things she did in secret. She knew I was always there for her, and and the end we talked a lot about why it did not work and I told her I wanted her, wanted to be with her. She always told me she wanted that too.

In reality she was seeing someone else for months, so I now see where her blushing was coming from. I really think she was ashamed seeing me, and seeing someone else.

Also she never met my friends, parents and others in my surrounding. I think she couldn't because she knew our relation was not going to last from the beginning, altough I want to believe she really loved me. But is love of a BPD the same love you are feeling? I think not. If a BPD really act love like she  expects from the partner she has to admit she never will be hounest, because it's not the same love, and never will be.

I told her to NC and be happy with him, I was replaced in silence. I am sure she never will contact me because of shame, and because she now has a new relation from day 1 I told her to stop being there for her. Replaced.

NC for 5 months now.  It's ok, but hard to handle. Great days, but also days I blame myself really hard. She's gone but yeah, I really would like to hear from her desperately... its not going to happen and thats the best solution.

Also with a therapist to learn and work on ignoring the red flags en my behaviour, feelings to get better and move on. Its hard, because she always will have a prominent place in my heart.

 

Erfanovich, you did nothing wrong. Even in the best of conditions, relationships have challenges. But if two people are truly in love, then they can be worked out. Had I known what BPD or PPD are, I most likely would have given much effort to try and work on things - such is love. But it's not really about us. It's about the person with a disorder. They need to commit to continue working things out through some kind of therapy. My ex was no longer in therapy, hadn't been for years, and when I asked if we could do therapy together, she became a little angry for even making the suggestion. That showed me her dedication to our relationship. Even though she clued me in on a lot of behaviors, I'm not sure that she fully accepted her condition. A friend told me after my ex an I broke up, that therapy is like a work out for the muscle - you need to continue using therapy to keep the benefits.

In the end, all I have is conjecture about much of the details, but certainty about her condition.

Actually, it is also about us, as well. But both parties, regardless of mental condition, must commit to working things out, and to do it together. One thing my ex emphasized when we were together, was that she really wanted a partner. I guess there was a limit, or conditions, to what she would do as a partner. Her idea of having a partner hit a wall when she realized that she would have to do certain things that a "partner" asked of her. That's a true partnership. 

Bingo³!

They want a partnership.  They have no idea what that entails, more specifically they are not interested in doing that work, or in the case of my ex really any work to make that happen.  Essentially saying, "I'm a child, care for me".  You're 49, you should be fine (with adulthood by now).

The 5 month mark was hard for me too Erfanovich.  At least you found this website, it should help you heal faster.  I was very much tortured at that point. I did not know about BPD.  I looked it up, by chance, it made me feel a little better to know what the condition was and helped me make sense of what happened, a little bit.

I like that and its exactly right - they wear a mask and maintain a good outward image unless you are unlucky enough to get closer. Sadly, at that point, many of us are already hooked. Sigh.

I'm sorry, being from Purple country myself I don't think I'm allowed to interact with a (whispers) packers fan (kidding, I actually couldn't care less about football, not that I can say that out loud around here :) )

You know, this is one of the things I go back to repeatedly - my ex, way at the beginning, told me "it will end badly" and I frickin' ignored it. Lesson learned: LISTEN to someone when they literally speak their red flags.

Purple plays at 3pm, ILM.  Better not spend too much time on the forum... :)

Yes, you and I were both told it wouldn't work out.  I think I've seen that show up with others as well.  It's a very important point to learn.  That should cause a person pause.  If they don't have a good answer why they said that, that's all the answer you need!

Maybe both Mr. and Ms. BPD have the same local "flavor" of the condition.  You know the "Corn-Fed, White-Bread" variety?  lol

We all ignored red flags - every single one of us. Repeatedly.
I once called my ex sweet too, he made some comment about how that was the side of him he wanted me to see. Looking back I realize what he meant but at the time I didn't think of it as a bad thing. I really don't know why, it looks like such an obvious red flag now.

This is good - IMO, we all need to work on ourselves and figure out why we put up with it in the first place, why we were so willing to overlook the red flags.


I thought this too- that he was special, that we had a bond, that he would always have a place in my heart. I'm not so sure now. I think eventually, with time, and with our own work on ourselves, we will come to see that it was a toxic relationship that doesn't deserve that place in our heart and that we need to fully let go to allow another, more deserving person to occupy that space.

Good to know - I will go grocery shopping then, less people in the store!   lol

Yep, I am learning not to ignore the red flags, as minor as they seem at the time,  and that is a very important thing!

Wouldn't doubt it. There is that whole "nice" label around here (that is really just passive aggressiveness IMO) and I suspect that it absolutely makes the BPD show up a little differently. Maybe we should introduce them, it might be fascinating to watch (if 2 BPDs get together, will they implode?)

BINGO!  I feel like I've been handing them out like candy this week, but people (like you) have been right on the money.  It took me 15 months to come to this conclusion.  See, you're ahead of schedule! A.  

That's so funny, I was just going to go to the grocery store now! I have a few items to pick up before the real game at 3:25pm ha ha.

Yes, implosion would be the natural outcome.  I feel we would likely have to cage them somehow to get them together.  BPD's feed on nons, not each other... :)

That’s a great post, is it really shame that keeps people with bpd away? Wouldn’t that suggest there was a sense of self accountability? I just think of my bpd ex and I guarantee there is no shame from her end and instead an abundance of ego, ignorance, and denial.

It is the avoidance of shame that keeps them away. Shame for the average person will give an opportunity to reform or still continue regardless, the point is it was momentarily experienced and felt and reflected on.

With my ex is like being a kungfu expert who will deflect or dodge a strike with incredible Forward attention skill that its on its way inbound.

Just like the ego, when the troubling thoughts enter the house it runs up the stairs to the next level. So it is with shame and with bpd however fast you are they will out run it. The end result is a shameless partner and explains why so many get surprised by the coldness of the discard, if anyones going to carry the blame from shame its always going to be you. Irrational doesn't matter or illogic, We are able as humans to transcend logic and apply irrational belief systems in their place.

Its the price to pay for daydreaming they will see the light. Only a skilled therapist can begin to work on this and you can maybe imagine the difficulty of that task. My opinion is they are paid to pussyfoot through a mental landmine scape, i did the same but unpaid with false hope that my ex would turn things around, face shame and so on. Very misguided and assumption driven. When i figured out it is an initial shock but eventually it helped to realise i didn't want her back after recognising how very different she is from what id believed she was. This is the key out. Disenchantment and disillusionment.

Thx for your answer.

The most intriguing thing about everything is why she did not tell me she had a problem. I asked her, she confirmed she had a problem, but that confession came when we broke up and she had replaced me for someone with a lot of more material belongings, higher social standard. Later on, I heard she was probably diagnosed with borderline, allthough I recognize more NPD traits. If she told me, I could make a choise, stick with her and make the best of it. But now I am broken and confused, harming myself I did wrong and didn't listen, didn't see her way of behaving or ignored her cries for help.  Untill this day I am devastated she knew our relation was ending somewhere and recognize a total lack of interest to put real and sincere energy in it. In our talks she even admitted the new guy was probably also "not the one". As a human being it is hard to understand such a way of life, but I can't understand her feelings, the inside of her mind and her fears. I cant't save her, although I would have tried if she was clear about her problems from the past. I try to see the relation was toxic and I was part of it. But the part of me was sincere, unconditional love but somewhere down the road I lost my awareness of my own boundaries, my awareness what a relationship should be. I have to admit, she was sneaky and a lot of things do no comply to reality.

With help of friends, some of them know her and told me earlier she was not right, she was sneaky and always searching for more, better and attention, and my therapist I discovered some patterns in my personality. I am confinced my ex found these weaknesses and used these weak spots in advantage of her own needs ( NPD?). The sneaky way of behaving, gaslighting and so so many (little) lies made me lose sight of reality. Her slyly way of communicating and occasional compliments towards me created a fog so you couldn't see what was going on and gave me the conviction that I was the best and sweetest for her. I still am convinced it was true love and somewhere I screwed up. I try to realize I did not but I can't convince myself. I'm trying to see that this belief I screwed up is the same as ignoring red flags during the relation.

I am too stubborn, too hard on myself and most of all want to believe that I was the best because it gives me the best feeling. In reality, that may not be the case at all... The thought she has a place in my heart forever is a hope I have a place in her heart forever... And that is not the case at all. That hurts...

BPD and NPD often go together. My ex was absolutely BPD but shows some NPD symptoms as well. Its not uncommon.

Honestly, if she had told you, the outcome wouldn't have been any different. The mark of BPD is unstable personal relationships and when she was done with you, no amount of your love or compassion or understanding would have changed that for her. They live in their own minds and base their relationships on fleeting feelings.

The only thing you can really do is come to terms with the fact that they do not think like normal people and that us nons will never understand their thought process. It was hard for me to come to terms with that, I wanted to know "why" for so long. You are right though, you can't save her. And, again, no amount of your love, understanding or compassion would save her. This is about her, not you.

Oh wow do I feel this - I could feel myself getting lost in him, I had no boundaries, all I wanted was to be there for him. This is not a healthy relationship at all. You (and I) deserve so much better than someone who would play with our emotions and head like that.

Please don't blame yourself. For her it was never true love - she had a phase of idealizing you and putting you on a pedestal. It made you feel amazing to have her love bombing you, you fell in love (or maybe it was just the oxytocin making you feel good). Then one day something happened - an innocent comment, a look, maybe you were 5 minutes late to pick her up, maybe you wore brown shoes with black slacks - and suddenly, in her eyes, you weren't perfect anymore. Something broke the spell for her - something you had zero control over. There is no point in discussing it or working on it because, for them, its already over, just that fast. Now you aren't her white knight who can save her (because you wore brown shoes). She starts looking for the next white knight, all the while stringing you along because she needs to know you are still on her string, that you will still validate her existence, before *she* makes the decision to cut you off.
It takes time. But the further you are away from it, the clearer you will see the full picture and the less painful it will start to be. I highly recommend finding a therapist who knows about personality disorders, someone who can help you work through your own emotions surrounding this and why you ended up in a relationship like this in the first place (for me, I'm finding out I have a lot of childhood neglect at the hands of a narcissistic, codependent mother and that has pretty much caused me to get into some pretty messed up relationships, the BPD one just being the most recent)

Yeah I get this, I felt the same - that I alone could love him the way he needed, that I could help him, that we could heal together. I am certain every single woman he's been with feels that way at first. I'm nothing special - and that is painful to admit.

I think its human nature to think that we will always have a place in their heart, even just a tiny one. With BPD though it really is "out of sight, out of mind". They won't forget you per se (its not like they have Alzheimer's) but, like a toddler (which most of them are emotionally equivalent to), once you are out of their realm, and there is a new shiny object to play with, then you are no longer important in any way since they have a "better" toy. It hurts, it hurts a LOT. Its confusing and we can't wrap our heads around it.

We have all been where you are. Its confusing, painful, feels like the end of the world. We are here for you

Hello ILM,

Thx for your kind words, understanding and clear view of things. It helpes me understand and get things in perspective. It hurts to see that you have been where I am. I hope things are going well.

In addition to my post: I have a therapist for a few weeks and things are going better. I do have  codependent behaviour, based on my past, esspecially containing emotions  ( and ignore them) and please others and think for them.

I read your answers ( dont know how to excerpt them). The stringing part is very clear and I recognize this. Still hurts me when I think of this, thinking to be special but I wasn't anymore for over a year. She did give me the special feeling  to the end and even when I broke up she told me I was special, and she would never get over it when she saw me with another woman, because she lost me forever. I know it is just all BS or a sort of stringing, but sometimes I'm not sure.

Things you say are bingo. My head tells me the same, my heart tells me otherwise. Just have to hang in there to wear it out.

I just have a question: my friends tell me she will come back. I am so afraid of this to happen ( she did this before and all the things they warned me for happened). She lives 2 blocks away and haven't seen her for 5 months. I discovered she is asking around a bit in my surrounding. I am so afraid to melt again when I see her ( which is going to happen sometime!). How do you cope with that?

Again, thanks for your understanding and time to react... :love-it:

So much good stuff in this thread. 1.5 years out, still ruminating, still very, very confused, still wondering if she will contact me. I've excerpted some of the things you all have written in here, just to say 'exactly, me too' with some brief thoughts. I'm grateful for the community, there are so many heart-centered people here, willing to share and discuss things.

The original subject was will shame keep them away. I've thought that very thing. She ditched me over the holidays, ghosted me and left town, mocked me and snapped at me in front of her family the week before, humiliating me. The last we spoke I said, gently, "honey, my experience was ...(the above)". She exploded, called me all sorts of names, then told me she needed someone who would show up for her (I always did, even at last second requests) and someone who didn't melt under pressure (she told me I melted into the floor when she snapped at me at a show with her family- I did not, I gave her a quizzical look...that's it).

One night, early on, post coitus she started crying.  I asked, "What's wrong?" She said through the tears, "It just doesn't matter, it just won't work out, 1 year or 10 years, it won't work!"
    She cried once...after coitus, and asked me if I would take care of her. I said of course I will. Later I was accused of not being able to take care of her because she didn't think my books were arranged on a shelf well.

 She made up excuses repeatedly for not meeting my family and even friends.  That's a thing, it seems.

She refused to come to my functions at my business, mocked my friends when I suggested I have a party for her to meet them and vice versa ("why would I want to be around these people?"), refused to come with me to my hometown ("no, why would I want to go there. you haven't made it seem very nice") when I went on long tours of her hometown with her.

Once, when she was describing her husband's manipulative tendencies to me, I remember looking at her and thinking, "That's kind of what you do."

She complained about her ex-husband constantly, called him a liar and manipulative and an abuser. I often thought, wait...this is how you are acting.

She knew to say that I was engaging (or others) in a behavior before it was even clear that behavior was evident.  So skillful was she that I would wonder, 'am I manipulating her by asking her to go to lunch at noon?'   'I haven't seen her in 10 days, is having lunch too controlling (for a girl like her)?'

I found myself asking the exact same question. Is she going to think I'm being controlling by asking her to lunch? Also, many times would go days without seeing her, days without her responding to a text or call. Or just plain ignoring lunch invitation (by text, then phone thinking she didn't get the text...didn't answer the phone, never responded at all).

In our first phase our talks always were about her ex, his manipulation, keeping her short, no direct financial access, control and lack of interest and attention. I felt so sorry for her, I did not see that she had a part to in his behaviour. Because of all the PLEASE READ she was in and her constant diversion to the behaviour of her ex, we never talked about us and our relation.

So much. CONSTANT talking about her ex. She would even send me his emails and texts, then call to discuss them. She had me go on his Facebook page to see if there was a companion with him on a trip he took. 75% of our conversations were about him, what a jerk he was, how he was an NPD abuser. I bring up something in my life, immediate cutoff, or "I thought I told you...", "I don't have time for your emotions".

My ex was no longer in therapy, hadn't been for years, and when I asked if we could do therapy together, she became a little angry for even making the suggestion. That showed me her dedication to our relationship.

She told me she had CPTSD from her abusive marriage, but took care of it with EMDR years ago. Always told me I needed therapy though, exploded at me once when I asked her why she wasn't communicating over several days, telling me I need help. Embarrassingly, I did an attachment style inventory after that to see what was wrong with me (she was ghosting me on purpose- admitted it later when I told her that ignoring calls and texts for days at a time is confusing and hurtful and dehumanizing-that's why she exploded when I asked why she wasn't communicating), and when I told her I'd share the results with her she didn't want to see it. I asked her what her style was, she condescendingly told me 'secure', of course. By the way, CPTSD apparently looks a lot like BPD.

I guess there was a limit, or conditions, to what she would do as a partner. Her idea of having a partner hit a wall when she realized that she would have to do certain things that a "partner" asked of her. That's a true partnership

I did anything and everything for her, was happy to. Wanted to. In our two year relationship, I can't think of a single thing she helped me out with. Never even offered. Shamed me for "not taking care of her when she was sick". I tried, tried. Called her and texted her and kept asking how she was feeling and what I could do for her, she kept saying she didn't need anything. Then, confused and sensing I was doing something wrong, tried suggesting some things I could do, she rejected them and said she didn't need anything. Then, she stopped responding to me, later told me she turned off her phone, for 3 days, angry at me that "I didn't take care of her...my friends know what to do without asking". When I was under the weather...nothing.

Essentially saying, "I'm a child, care for me".  You're 49, you should be fine


Crying "will you take care of me". Then, later, yelling "you can't take care of me." My books are not arranged the way she thinks they should be "you can't take care of me, look at your bookshelves". Actual quote.

The sneaky way of behaving, gaslighting and so so many (little) lies made me lose sight of reality. Her slyly way of communicating and occasional compliments towards me created a fog so you couldn't see what was going on and gave me the conviction that I was the best and sweetest for her. I still am convinced it was true love and somewhere I screwed up.

I am, in the last 1.5 years, slowly recognizing all the sly evasive answers to questions that were completely naive and not intended as 'gotchas' at all, since I didn't think she would want or need to hide anything from me, the lies, gaslighting she constantly engaged in with me. They are so clear now.

And yet, yet. I think somehow I screwed up, I feel deep remorse and that I threw away a deep and powerful love.

Jaded and Erfan.  I'll include the link to how to quote, there are some screen shots that help.  For some reason the FAQ section is now archived, maybe the moderators can help with that.  Here's the basics if you don't want to follow the link:

-- Just use quotation marks, "You guys are doing a good job." --Ad Meliora
-- Cut & Paste text from a post, use the button in the format tools that looks like a quote box and that will highlight your text in a quote box, add a name if you like.
--Click the "Excerpt" button in the post that you want to reply to.  The post shows up in your reply box with a header and a footer.  Delete the text you do not want, but keep the headers!  Then it will show their name on it.  Write your comments below the last header which will look something like "[ quote ]"

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56733.0

Of course shame and guilt figure in.  This is an underlying driver of all their behaviors and shouldn't be confused with them not accepting responsibility for their actions.  They will never tell you about their feelings of shame, but their actions point to it though.  Heck, my BPDex never talked about her feelings at all! When I wanted to talk about mine she ran into the bedroom and played candy crush on her phone! :)

The most intriguing thing about everything is why she did not tell me she had a problem.

Bingo⁴

Ok, still not getting the quote thing correct. It's laughable. I really am much more capable than this makes it seem. lol

I experienced the same. Crying after good en tender coitus she cried. I asked her why? She told me never felt so loved before...

Maybe a personal quenstion, but my ex told me all bad things about her e as I told you in water post,  also he was so teriible in bed. So even in love making my attention and concentration was all on her and satisfactioning for me, although I learned a lot and it was never a dull moment between the sheets, never had so much s*x and she always started.

Was the attention en pleasing the same for you all? And was the ex of the BPD also terrible in bed?

Terrible post.

Water = earlier post
It was never satisfactory for me

 *)

No.  Reverse in almost all ways for me.  Inexperienced, though, and wanting to stick to basics.  Rarely did she initiate, being shy.  Always good, almost.  Yes to the crying, Jaded was quoting me as well.  We all had that experience.

So your ex wanted to have sex all the time, but the sex was terrible?  I think that deserves a  lol, wow.  That's a new one. :)

Erfan, no worries.  You can "Modify" your post within the first 30 minutes to fix spelling errors.  Look in the corner by the "Excerpt" button.  That way you don't have to make a new post.  It is primary for spelling/grammar changes and not to substantially change content as the moderators have described in the posting guidelines.

:) You are just putting your quote closing tag in the wrong spot. Or you are missing the close tag. tech nerd here, sorry if that makes no sense...basically for every (quote) tag you have to have a closing (/quote) tag - the text between those is what is quoted (and this forum uses square brackets not the curved ones I used as an example, so keep that in mind)

We never discussed sex with his exes so I don't know what his opinion was of them.
My opinion of him though was it was...basic. He always just wanted missionary and really didn't seem to know or care how it was for me. The first few times, the emotions were crazy, I felt amazingly connected and his lack of finesse or skill didn't matter...by the last couple times, I felt like didn't really matter to him in the least that he was with me, I could have been anyone.  No connection at all. And that led to me telling him I felt used which led to him discarding me.

I keep hearing how mind blowing the sex is with a female BPD - maybe that is the difference, because I sure didn't get that with a male BPD.

I am getting better every day. You will too.

I am glad to hear it - and not at all surprised to hear that you have codependent tendencies - its pretty common for BPDs to find the codependent people,  we might be the only ones to actually put up with them lol

Yes, they have an innate need to feel validated and knowing that you are not over her validates her.

Yes. It takes time. Sometimes a long time. I am the same way - 95% of me is rational and knows it wasn't real for him but 5% things "but only if..."  Bah.  (Actually its more like 99%/1% for me now. I've made a lot of progress on letting go recently.)

Its very common for them to come back - either to try and get back together or to just try and make sure they still have you on their string in case they  ever need you. Not always, but it is common.
When my ex started poking around again, I started over thinking it and getting worried and wondering about his motivation.  It was awful - like living through the discard again and he hadn't even said anything.  That's my own issue and I don't recommend it :). 
Really, all you can do is work on yourself, learn to love yourself, learn that you are a whole person without her and that her treatment of you was wrong...and learn to believe that.  Once you have that in your head- and actually believe it - your whole outlook will change. You will change from wanting her to being angry with how she treated you. You absolutely do not deserve how she acted. You deserve a healthy relationship. She is not it.

It's tough, but make a plan and rehearse it in your mind. Some people even go to the place where they might run across their ex and practice what they will do. Do that over and over until it is in the fabric of your thinking.

After I refused reconcilation, the life coach I was seeing had me do that. What if he called? What if he texted? What if he showed up at my place? What if he showed up at places where he knew I'd be? I actually wrote it out and practiced it until the anxiety faded. He never did show up in that period, but then I was freaking out every time my divorce attorney mentioned going to trial. I just could not imagine meeting in a courtroom. My attorney's answer was much the same. He said he had a professional that would coach me step-by-step how to handle different scenarios so I could practice them. We could do a mock trial with one of the other lawyers in the office cross-examining. We would ride together in his car and enter the courthouse together. I could have anyone else I wanted with me, and he would have instructions for them.

Thankfully my ex lives far away and indeed never showed up even though he threatened that several years ago. The divorce settled without going to trial. So my concerns were a short-term issue, but I still know what I would do. 

My ex was very open to come back. I wonder if her approach was natural or manipulative, she'd play the helpless without me and 'me and you against the cruel world' card. In those moments I was and felt the centre of the universe. What's not to like its akin to bring godlike worshipped. Until it wears off.

As it always does. Or worse, the checkout operator at Costco who gave a friendly smile becomes the next to idolise, stalk, obsess over.

Anything external other than a dive into introspection and self analysis.

Cats are the borderlines of the animal world. If my ex goes out and gets no success at fed elsewhere of course its only natural she will pace back to my house and start nuzzling to be served again.

All that changed in these 3 years is within myself, not her, that i will not be a slave to anyone and I won't WAIT for anyone including my ex to. Somehow change that as a. Material fact.

These words-something happened- really speak to me today. I remember a few months in the explosions started, just sudden anger and shaming words. The first was when I went to clear the dishes after dinner she made, trying to be respectful and courteous. I got to the sink with them and she suddenly starts freaking out "what are you doing, don't stack them like that! Stop!" when I was getting ready to rinse them for dishwasher. She then snapped "just put them back on the table!" I was dumfounded and confused. I placed them back on the table like she said, and a few minutes later suggested we go sit in the living room, which caused a second angry explosion and she jumped up to angrily start rinsing the dishes. Confused, I said 'Are you upset?". She said "You think I like waking up to dirty dishes in the morning?". I said no, I don't think that. Then, "and who puts dirty dishes back on the table?" I said, "you told me too". She ignored that. I offered to help, she angrily said no.

I was always being caught off guard by these kinds of reactions to things. I once called to say I'd go shopping for our camping trip food, and asked her for the list of items I knew she always kept. She got very angry, exploded and told me "You don't want to go shopping! You're just trying to cover your ass!" I said but I do want to go shopping to save you money and time? She then told me "You're worthless in a grocery store and I'd just have to fix it anyway, it'd take me more time.". Then she admitted she'd already gone shopping 3 days before.

Many, many more incidents just like this. And yet, I loved her. I miss her, 1.5 years later.  God, when I read this I'm horrified.

Sex became a very strange thing with us. When we were first speaking I told her that I had been sexually abused as a child, and sex is really vulnerable, sacred thing for me. I once told her after sex that I was scared that she'd leave me because she didn't like sex with me, and that would be really hurtful to me. Her response "I told my friend that it's the best sex I've had in 15 years". Which, wasn't really to the point.

Very soon in the relationship sex got strange. One night she came over to have a glass of wine on the deck, late, very unusual. Said she wanted to just destress from having her ex-husband in town (she said it scared her). I said of course, even though I need to get up at 5:20am. Around 10:30 she asked to go to bed for sex, and I very, very gently said "I'm sorry, I need to get to bed and I'm tired." She got VERY angry, 1 hour 'fight' followed.

Then she would sometimes point at me after saying "let's go to bed" and say "Are you going to get those off or what? (referring to my clothes).

She often would just get into bed, then turn away from me and wait for me to come to bed and start 'doing' things. I started to feel like an object, she started to snap and chastise me during sex, which made me very uncomfortable- remember, she said earlier the sex was the best in 15 years. I was doing nothing differently, same me...I was confused. It all felt very mechanical and I felt like a sex toy.

Then she withheld sex for months, ignored my requests to come over, when she did come over turned me down 4 times in 2 days. Later when I asked about what was going on, saying I'm confused and hurt that she's ignoring my texts to come over, she told me "it's your sexual abuse" that was causing me to feel bad.

Later, when I asked again what was going on, in GREAT anger, she admitted she'd been ignoring my requests for sex/connection because "I was reevaluating the relationship since I wasn't sure I wanted to be with someone who was so excited about a business partnership with that loser" (a person who is world famous, a household name in my industry, creator of an entire workout format that you would know, who loved my business and personally invited me to his home in CA to premiere a new piece of equipment with 20 other people from around the world). So she knew what she was doing the first time I asked, and decided to blame my sexual abuse for my hurt feelings.

Sex with her became a scary thing for me. I just wanted connection and closeness, all I cared about was her feeling good. I didn't even care about me...it was all about the connection for me.

I ment to say my ex BPD wanted sex all the time, a lot, at the most different places and sometimes promiscuous and extreme but it was  for her own satisfaction most of the times and not giving a lot of attention to me. She always stated her ex-husband was terrible and never enjoyed love making so I also tried to compensate that. I don't complain because I had my share and fun, but after a while I realized how she is and the ex-husband stories weren't true and part of playing the victim to get attention or to cover up her hypersexual behaviour. In fact her amazing body and 'easy willing' are the only strong points to get attention from men (in combinatie of playing victim and bad exes)

Hi Jared!
I can relate on that. I too wanted connection and sometimes just lay to each other, spooning. It really never happend and always ended up in action. I sometimes realized that "no sex" is a rejection in their mind or a first sign of leaving? Of course not all BPD are the same but in my case she always made the move or just went on top... again, i did not complain and my friends told me I relived my puberty lol but that was the only thing my friends were jalous of...

Exactly. I just wanted connection, closeness. Once I asked her to go to bed with me (she usually visited during the day) and she said she couldn't have sex because of that time of the month, and I said we can do other things or just be close, she emphatically shot that down. I would have enjoyed just holding each other, fully clothed.

Once when I reached to her as she came to bed (again turned away from me) and I put my arm around and began nuzzling up to her, I could tell she was just cold and distant. I asked her if she just wanted to go to sleep (very kindly, gently) and she exploded at me "________(my name), if you want sex touch me in a sexy way!" Said the woman who would point at me and tell me to get my clothes off. Said the woman who would just back into me in the morning, never even turning her head to me or saying a word.

One time, after many months not having sex (earlier in the relationship it was 2 times a week at least), after I had asked her the first time what was going on by ignoring my texts and calls to come over, now 2 months later we are spending the night together and she comes to bed so I reach out my arm to take her in, she physically knocks it away. Stunned, once she is in bed I again reach out to put my arm around her and she knocks it away again. I then ask, for the second time in 4 months, if there is something going on with our physical relationship and she EXPLODES. "You want to fight? Alright, let's fight! I'm fully awake now, let's go at it! Come on, let's fight!" I didn't want to fight. She then proceeds to yell at me, in bed, as I try to defend myself for over an hour. That's when she got so mad that she then admitted that she'd been withholding sex for months because of the business thing I wrote about above.

Geez. This is painful to write out.

Mornings were a complete different creature than the passion of the night prior. There is some science that alludez to an explanation, depression experienced up on awakening.

The more I studied the past the more aware of biochemical imbalances that play a role.there's not alot in terms of psychoanalysis that can alter a mind they is chemically imbalanced requiring medication intervention.

Wow.  We had the same experience there, basically.  It makes sense that during sex, a state of heightened emotions, that the executive functioning goes to zero and it turns into a mini-meltdown.  The bookshelf stuff, that's bizarre, and a  red-flag.

You know Jaded, it's funny about the dishes as I had something go wrong there and I know others did too.  I was helping clean up her kitchen and putting dishes in the dishwasher.  She was in the other room on her phone.  I asked if the dishes already in the dishwasher were dirty or clean.  She started getting really mad and said "just look". I told her I couldn't tell.  She got up in a huff and said what "high maintenance" I was all the time and an idiot could figure it out.  She yanked open the dishwasher and looked...she looked some more...she looked yet some more and said, "Just put the dirty dishes in there and run it!"  I was just trying to be helpful, like you.


Good.  That's the point, and they will.  "A-ha" moments come from sharing, and reading other people's experiences.

It's funny hearing you guys complain about your partner wanting sex, but I get it.  It was the way you were treated.  They way we all were treated, before, during after.  She would question me during coitus: "Do you want me?" Umm, yeah..., now who is being Captain Obvious?  lol

However it works out as a behavior, the common thread is that it is another manipulation tool. Good, bad, or otherwise.

On the week she cheated on me, she came home and got all upset over the dishes being in the sink. Went off.

Not washing dishes vs. letting someone else inside you. Seems about equal. I deserved it.

Are you going for a second "Post of the Year" nomination?  lol

This feeling is the litmus test. It's a sign to me you lack the full undersdanding, you've not fully brought on board the pain and suffering and rejected it as part of the deal. Id you truly had, you'd sprint at the sight of this freak of nature as fast as if it were a rapist in an alley.

Your anxiety and hesitation is part of remaining in trance, in spellbound. In short l, reality is avoided Because reality sucked. Start reflecting start suffering and see how short term pain leads to long term strengthening

You won't be anxious afterwards you'll be new and changed.

Don't you want that? Don't you want to be less. Tepid

It's all about accepting that everything she did was my fault. I am the problem. Trying to love her unconditionally was disgusting behaviour that needed punishment. I am thankful.