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Hello everyone! As someone who just got out of a relationship with a girl suffering with potential untreated bpd. I just want to share my experience with everyone and see what they think. To start, I’m a 30 year old man who met this 23 year old girl at my job and she immediately took a strong liking to me. She was very open about her life and told me things she probably shouldn’t have told someone she barely knew.

After long, she kinda pushed her way into making me drive her home after work every day. I found out during this time that she had a fiancé that she was in the process of officially leaving because their relationship was “toxic/abusive”. She would constantly tell me I’m perfect in her eyes and pretended to be interested in things I was interested in (found this out later). Things progressed, I really thought this girl was pretty amazing. We got along well and she was very affectionate and personable. I eventually asked her to be my girlfriend and she was overjoyed and accepted eagerly. Honestly, things were great and relatively normal aside from her testing me. She would tell me things like “I met someone new, I hope you don’t mind because I didn’t think we were exclusive” Or things about her how she might get back with her ex fiancé to try and she how I’d react. Annoying and a bit childish, but I put up with it. The obvious lies were a bit stranger though. I won’t go into detail but they were more than likely fake stories. No idea to this day why she decided to say some of those things. More testing possibly.?

That strangeness aside, things progressed really nicely. Me and her got along extremely well and could talk about anything with each other. We went on dates, hung out with her friends, and basically had a good time together. One of these times we were hanging out watching tv she told me she loved me. It was around the two month mark I believe.. Fast, I know, but it seemed so right at the time. I was overjoyed thinking I might have finally found true love, as I felt the same. She clearly had issues, she explained she had lots of baggage and warned me that some people thought she was crazy. It was said in a kinda joking way, so I just took it as a joke and brushed off her warnings. I thought to myself, this girl seems relatively normal to me, why would anyone say she’s crazy? (The testing and fake stories didn’t register in my mind for some reason during this time, love blind maybe)

Some time passed with little incident until things started changing for the worst. I started realizing something else seemed kinda off with her. She would get offended very easily, and threatened to ditch me once over something someone said about me trying to get with alot of the young girls at work. I calmed her down and explained that it was false. I still don’t know if she made that story up as another test.. She also got mad at me a couple of times and threatened to kick me out of her house on more then one occasion. Still despite this worrying behavior from her, I pushed on. Mainly because I was already in love with her, despite her increasingly bizarre behavior she was showing. Then came the suicide threats. She would  send me text messages saying how she was going to commit suicide because she always felt empty and depressed and she wasn’t getting any better. She stated she’ll always be with me in spirit. She got the cops called on her at work by her ex for sending him the same suicidal text messages to him a couple of days after she sent hers to me. These got her fired. I was terrified, I thought back on the times she said she was crazy..

After all that happened it seemed her depression and symptoms got worse.. She had a terrible spending problem and would online shop her money away. The money she didn’t spend on shopping was spent on weed and vapes. During this spiral she broke things off with me stating “her mental health was declining and she needed time to get healthy”. The weird part was that me and her still hung out and acted like a couple after that. We would cuddle, kiss, have sex, and tell each other we loved each other. Literally nothing changed except the title. All those red flags and for some reason I stuck by her side thinking she was just going through a stressful time in her life. I had no plans on leaving her. (Clearly LOVE BLIND)

About another month of this and things began to really take a sharp nose dive in our relationship. It all started when I forgot about a date that we had planned to make ginger bread houses together. I had a long day at work and had some personal things going on that day so I completely forgot. When I get home I decide to send her a text saying “I miss you”. Boy did she flip out on me. You would think she just caught me cheating on her with how she acted. Her whole demeanor & attitude towards me completely changed. I didn’t think this was a huge deal, little did I know it was just the beginning of the end. She said I played with and disregarded her feelings, and this missed date wasn’t the only thing I did to wrong her. The sad part is, this was the only thing, I literally have no idea what else I did wrong to cause this behavior shift. Things didn’t improve, I began to feel a coldness from her that was a far far cry from the person she showed herself to be during the start.

From that day onwards it’s been a gradual decline in our relationship. I increasingly was downgraded more and more each encounter it seemed. From her super man to just some guy she thought was psychically attractive, a disappointment,  just like every other guy she said. She told me “I thought you were different, but I was wrong again”. I didn’t understand what the hell was going on and couldn’t get a straight answer out of her. The text messages started getting colder and less romantic. Before she would use lots of emojis and hearts, now just plain, sometimes one word messages. The harder I would try the more she would push me away. There was glimpses of what we use to have, but very few and far in between. Before I knew it I was being openly “friend zoned”. She would constantly tell me I screwed everything up when we were together so she can’t be blamed. Her anger would turn to absolute rage at me for things that shouldn’t have warranted a response like the one she gave. I was a pos, bastard, gave off douche bag vibes, immature, etc when she got upset. Im not entirely sure why I took this verbal abuse like I did. In hindsight i shouldn’t have, but I was confused wanting that sweet and caring girl back again. Unfortunately, she never came back…

From then on everything between us got worse and worse until she finally decided we can’t be friends anymore because I’m too clingy/annoying. Me and her still text occasionally but it’s nothing serious like it use to be. In fact, I’m pretty sure she’s in the process of getting back with her “abusive” ex fiancé. Go figure. Honestly, this whole situation has left me utterly drained and depressed. This women went from “I love you so much, you’re perfect in my eyes“ to “I cant stand you, we’ll never work out, so stop trying a**hole” in 4 or 5 months. When I would try and bring it up on why exactly she broke it off to get some clarity, she would just curse me out and give me the same old answer. I’ve never been more dumbfounded. I went from soulmate to someone she could barely tolerate to talk to for…..nothing serious essentially..

Does this sound like borderline personality to you guys? It certainly does to me as I read up on it a bit. I know from her stories she told me that she was neglected by her mother and sexual abused when she was very young. Any insight would be very appreciated y’all. This whole thing has really taken a huge toll on me. Thanks.

Hi and welcome to the forums.  Many of us can relate to your experience, but I'd caution labeling it BPD and I definitely would not mention it to her since it would make matters much worse (for you and her).  In general though, she does check several boxes- fear of abandonment, suicidal ideation, low self esteem, the push/pull relationship dynamic, etc.

One other thought and you may not like this.  Are you sure the ex fiancé is abusive, or is she just saying that to get sympathy from you?  I wouldn't count that as a definite unless you've seen actual proof.  Once someone is "painted black", a pwBPD will say all sorts of nasty things about them to justify their warped viewpoints.  Many of us here have experienced that firsthand after 5, 10, 20+ year marriages...the things we get accused of is mind-boggling.

If this is BPD, it's very possible you were the rebound person and she does go back to the fiancé.  Probably not what you want to hear, but I think it's important for you to fully grasp the situation.  This does not sound like the start of a healthy relationship, even though it may have felt wonderful at times.  Please proceed with caution, my friend.

Welcome, @Gutt3rSnipe!

sorry you went through this... but yeah, I'd agree this sounds like a fairly clear case of BPD.  Like almost a textbook case, hitting all the criteria.

Be glad you found this out relatively early compared to some of us here.  And be very glad you didn't marry her, and be super extra glad you never had children with her.  In fact, pat yourself on the back.

I also agree with Pook's comment below, and will add...


... pwBPD are NOTORIOUSLY unreliable witnesses.  

Consider anything they tell you, especially about former lovers/spouses/partners to be untrue, unless you have objective evidence corroborating it.  

Also: nothing is ever their fault.

sometimes they rebound back and forth, but depending on how it ended, they may also just move on to new people, knowing that they wore out their welcome, and the Ex- was not willing to tolerate the "BPD experience" as I'd call it, anymore.  so they have to move on to someone new, who becomes their "rescuer"

Thanks so much for the welcome and the replies! I have the utmost sympathy for you guys who’ve gone through this for long periods with your partners. A couple months of this and I’m spent emotionally.

Also, I forgot to mention on how she absolutely hated her appearance mosty.. For example, when we would FaceTime she would only show her forehead or the wall. When I would ask her why she’d always say something bad about her appearance. Another strange thing is how she would seemingly change her personality sometimes. Sometimes she would act “ghetto” (don’t know how else to describe it lol) around me or her friend. and other times sweet, and drop the accent altogether.I was perplexed by both these behaviors until I learned about BPD.

As to the fiancé question and the supposed abuse. The only proof I have is a hurt hand/wrist she braced up after a psychical altercation they had. It did look bruised but who knows if she was lying about how it happened or not. He did seem controlling and aggressive in his text and calls when me and her were together. He eventually found out about me and her after she broke it off with him a couple months after. He threatened to fight me and had his sister (he’s not on Facebook) Facebook call me multiple times to try and find me/her. Other than that I have no real way of knowing if he’s abusive or violent to her other than what she’s told me.

I have come to the unfortunate realization that I probably was  just a side guy for her. I have no idea why she went to the lengths she did  to make me fall for her if that’s all I was gonna be though. She still claims she did love me until I messed it up. I’m not an expert on love by any means but I’m pretty sure that was the idealized version of me she “loved”. Once she realized I was indeed a human being with flaws and weaknesses she stopped.

 

So sorry brother, we've all been there and it's gut-wrenching.  Whether you're the rebound or the new squeeze (LoL, couldn't think of a better term), it hurts us all just the same.

I did want to answer one question though- why she did what she did.  Her feelings for you were genuine the whole time- the love, the hate, the feelings of rejection.  Folks with BPD run 100% on feelings and they never shut off.  Combine that with a warped self image and an intense fear of abandonment, and you're starting to get a glimpse of why these relationships seem to fall apart out of nowhere.  For her, it was very, very real and way more intense that you ever realized.

Hi Gutt3rSnipe, I want to join with the others in welcoming you to the group  :hi:

You've certainly been through the wringer, with the fast-paced relationship, the other guy/fiance, the emotional intensity, and the rage.

Am I reading you correctly that you're very done with the relationship, and what you're looking for right now is a place to process, share, and learn, without going back?

If so, what I'll probably do for you is transfer this thread over to our "Detaching and Learning..." (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=11.0) board -- you'll get more targeted feedback and discussion there for your particular situation.

Also, if you haven't had a chance to check out our Lessons (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0) section there yet, give it a look -- a lot of the lessons, especially the one on BPD behaviors (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331266#msg1331266), sound right up your alley.

Again, glad you found us;

kells76

Welcome to the BPD 'family'.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet and are trying to process the 'why's.  Consider yourself lucky, I am still in a 22 year prison of FOG - fear, obligation, and guilt.

I would like to add you may want to read section 1 of Randi Kreger's book "Stop Walking on Eggshells" 3rd edition as it has an assessment section on if she was a borderline, or even possibly NPD as they present in similar ways.

Thanks for the welcoming! It feels good to know there’s others out there who understand the pain that this disorder can bring on those not even personally suffering from it.

Apart of me wishes she gets the help she needs to become healthy and we end up together some day. The other part of me, The realist, knows she’ll more likely go back and stay with her ex fiancé and boyfriend of 5 years. I mean If a persons main fear is abandonment it makes sense you’d stay with the safer bet that has already stuck it out with you for that long.

I have a question. Do pwBPD usually come back to a person they previously were involved with or do they search for new? I’m sure it’s case by case and depends on the person but I’m jw about your guy’s experiences in regards to that.

This is the most accurate statement I have ever read about dealing with a person with BPD. My stbx H uBPD was always the victim, and his version of reality was never accurate, nor true! I even witnessed his distortions first hand. Everything in his life was a lie, and he was living in the reality he created. Scary.

I think you were really onto something here regarding the idealized version of you and then the devaluation phase. I also think that you should read the eggshell book. When I read it, it gave so much more clarity to what I went through. my stbx H always made everything in the relationship my fault, and that I had messed it up. I didn’t mess it up nor did you! Sadly we were both in relationships with partners who are likely mentally ill.

I’d suggest to read more here on the boards and in the book. It will help explain so much of what you are already catching onto.

Nothing wrong with that. You still care about her.

As for BPD, 30 and 23 doesn't seem to me to be that much of a gap. I got together with my ex when I was just 37 and she was just 26 though we had known each other a few months. Don't discount emotional Immaturity. Yet what all you describe sounds BPD-ish.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder


There's no script, but be prepared. I was 41, my ex 31, and her beau 21 whom she left me for. At the time, our kids were 1 and just turned 4. Two of my friends told me she'd eventually want to come back. I thought they were nuts. My ex told me many of the things your gf did.  She married the guy and it later imploded. 4 years later she asked to come back, separated but still legally married.

These types of situations are inflection points where we need to look inward and value ourselves and what we want and need rather than being wrapped up in caretaking others at the expense of ourselves.

I said no.

Look up the narcissistic love bombing cycle. This is also applicable to the borderline.

Love bombing ==> devalue ==> discard ==> rinse and repeat

The rinse and repeat holds true unless they find somebody else.

So you are that somebody else with her ex fiance of 5 years.  So, if the ex is available when she does the rinse and repeat with him, you will be discarded.  If the ex is NOT available, then you may become the attention of the 'rinse and repeat', or she can find some new 'toy' to play with.  That is the nature of the 2nd symptom of borderlines - unstable relationships.

Not worth it, IMHO.

[

I really do still care for her deeply. Honestly, I wish I didn’t care for her like I do because I now know the horror stories people with this disorder put people involved with them through. On a positive note, she’s apparently getting mental help soon so she needs to stick with it once she starts.

Thanks for sharing your story with me though man. You’re definitely strong for having endured all that with your ex wife.Good on you for saying no too!

 I am preparing myself for the day she try’s to reignite the relationship. I just don’t think I can deal with this rollercoaster again . If she does ever come back I just hope she’s in therapy. Like you said, we have to know our value and I value myself way too much to put my mind through the wringer again.

So what big brother Turk has said is the route I would go as in what do you really want? What do you feel you deserve? Instead of playing doormat and being a caretaker choose what you want to do in life because you want to do it! Also, realize you cannot save other people, only yourself, and other people's feelings and emotions are not your responsibility but their own as your feelings and emotions are your own responsibility.

Instead of wondering whether or not she will come back, etc focus on being indifferent about it...meaning you are not swayed one way or the other. This will lead you into what I try to help many discover...outcome independence.

Essentially what you will gather is that the ideal you want to aspire for is for relationships to become based on WANT and not NEED.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

When I first learned about BPD, I struggled with this concept, and also with the saying "feelings are facts."

There was so much outright dishonesty from BPDxw, that I couldn't square that with the idea that she truly believed the things she was claiming or the feelings that were driving her.  If she was honest about her feelings, didn't I then have a duty to try to accommodate them?

But the thing is, her feelings were irrational, and also shifted far more rapidly than a healthy adult.  And she would badly misjudge how I was feeling, or my motivations, making any attempt at accommodating her an exercise in futility.

I recall one time, on an otherwise happy occasion taking our child to visit her first school, when I checked my phone (it was a work day, and so I was getting work emails).  She flew into a rage, demanding to know who was "texting me," see my phone, and just kinda ranted at me, almost incoherently, as she followed me out the door and then slammed it in my face.

I guess she really did suddenly believe I was having an affair (?) and that was "proof," but it doesn't justify her behavior or excuse it.  

From what I’m gathering learning more and more about the disorder is that delusional thinking is a characteristic of those suffering. That could be the reason why your ex acted the way she did? I’ve heard people that have bdp tend to overuse the part of the brain that controls feelings/emotions and under use the part that controls logical thinking. That explains the behavior.

You are kinda on the right track. BPD sufferers unfortunately are not normal and how their brains are wired are literally atypical. Now before any blanket assumptions are made not all BPD sufferers are the same. There may be similarities but they are still individual people with different genetic makeups and dispositions which would explain various different variables. That isn't to say their S :cursing: behaviors are to be excused or accepted though. No, it is just a reminder that you cannot have the same expectations as you would with someone who is neurotypical.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

There are bits and pieces of information about BPD that seem consistent.  There's a genetic component, and also BPD-ers sometimes or maybe often experienced childhood trauma: abuse, abandonment or both.

To the extent their disordered behavior is not 100% genetic, I'd imagine growing up in a world where abuse and abandonment are present would condition a young, impressionable mind to live in a world where that's all they expect.  And they learn to do what they have to do to survive: manipulate everyone around them. 

In such cases, they never have the opportunity to mature emotionally, and learn the sort of patience, compassion and most importantly, TRUST, necessary to have healthy adult relationships.

And that seems consistent to me with what I saw and learned about BPDxw, her past, and how she reacted and behaved. 

All this also underscores how difficult it is to "treat" or recover from BPD: imagine how much therapy and help is necessary to overcome years of experienced trauma?  Especially since those years are often during childhood when the mind is most impressionable. 

That sort of therapy would be expensive, and from what I've seen, no "hour of talking to a bored psychologist for a $30 copay" is going to be anywhere near enough to even make a "dent" in the disorder.  And will probably be even worse... I know BPDxw would use her T sessions solely to validate her disordered claims and thoughts.  and if the T focused on her behavior, she'd just stop going.  Before she met me, she'd tell me her therapy sessions were about how her parents screwed her up and let her down.  After she met me, it was all about how I caused her grief by "not supporting her enough" or "betraying her trust."

And I imagine she's only doing that now with her new guy, except for the random times she sends me a bunch of angry texts about something (which I ignore).

My daughter has largely recovered from BPD.  She has a dual diagnosis with bipolar so it's hard to say which is which, but she used to hate her mom and I with a passion- her sessions were used to bash me and validate her feelings.  Yet many years later, we are close friends and share everything with each other.  I'm not her favorite person, but I'm probably in the top-3.  Her life isn't perfect and she still has some very rough days, but the overall improvements are mind blowing.

The thing is, my kid spent years and years saying it was someone else's fault...never herself.  But that changed maybe a year ago or a little more, she started putting in the work on herself and trying to move past all the trauma and anger.  Within 6 months she was a different person entirely- she's the kid I always wanted.

I shared that for everyone to make one critical point- therapy is useless if the person attending doesn't want to change.  But once they're ready, big changes can occur fairly quick.  My BPD wife is still in denial and there's nothing anyone can do.  She'll suffer until she realizes that she self-destructs on everything around her.

yikes.

that's good to hear about your daughter's progress.  When was she diagnosed?  is that around when you saw her symptoms start?

Sounds like with a BPD mom it was probably genetic?

From what I’ve read about the disorder it seems there is a genetic component, but the disorder stems from early childhood trauma.

For my kid, I knew when she was very young- maybe 7 or 8 years old.  A few of the little girls at her birthday party got into an argument (like little kids do), and I made them all apologize and make up.  They did, but my kid refused because she didn't know how- she was furious and couldn't let it go.  We ended up sending her to her room at her own birthday party, and told her she couldn't come out until she apologized.  It never happened.

She was unofficially diagnosed around 16...can't be official until 18 because it stays for life.  But from 15-20, she was on an incredibly destructive path and raged against any sort of authority.  Countless in-house stays, trips to the ER, running away from home, weak suicide attempts, etc.  And every step of the way, they told us the same thing- she's just manipulating everyone around her with no interest in getting better. 

I'm not sure if this is easier or harder for me going thru this with two people I love.  On one hand, I can ask my daughter how she feels about something and get invaluable insight into my wife.  My kid still can't forgive once she's painted someone black...she just doesn't know how.  They did this, this, and that and I hope they die.  I'm working on her with that still, but it's a very slow process since she has to get there on her own.  But she's done CBT (helped a little), some DBT (helped a lot), plus she's seeing a counselor regularly.

With my wife, I don't see any path to reconcile right now.  But there is a path there in time if I choose to wait it out.  I'm just not sure if I want that or not...waiting for someone to realize they need help is incredible hard.

*Update*

I’m thinking she’s back with her ex fiancé again. He apparently made her show him her phone because he was angry she didn’t tell him that his cousin was trying to have sex with her.(probable lie) She called me and told me the whole situation. The next day she sends me a text and calls me too saying she has to block my number temporarily until his suspicions die down because he’s searching her phone constantly. She seemed sincere but who knows really.
  

 I know I should just cut ties with this girl and go NC. I’m finding it incredibly difficult to do so, after all, I did fall (unfortunately) for this girl..

All this being said, like one of the other posters already stated above, I have the nagging suspicion I’m on the back burner for her when her and her ex fiancé start inevitably fighting again.. Aka The other guy she can “recycle” if she wants.
 

I previous said...


Dude,  I predicted this days ago.  Borderlines & Narcissists are so predictable in their cycles. 

Your logical mind tells you to go NC.  Your emotional mind wants you to stay; therefore, you find it very difficult due to the 'trauma bond' induced by this relationship and the emotional push-pull dynamic to leave - look up 'stockholm syndrome' if you want to know the technical reasons why are feeling this way.

It is very intoxicating when they split you 'white'; however, it is hell when they split you 'black'.  You are in a toxic relationship, please use your 'wise mind' to discern what is right for you.

With regards to your observation of being on the backburner, you are likely correct.  Borderlines have a fear of abandonment, so you are her 'supply' to prevent abandonment.  So, if she and her fiance split again, then you be 2nd fiddle, to fill the gap until she can once again reconnect with her fiance.

It is your life, you deserve better than 2nd fiddle for what is left over.  Only you can take care of you, so do take care of yourself.

Practice self-care, and take care.

Yeah you did predict it man. I actually kinda knew deep down even back when we were still together she still had feelings for him in some way. She would talk about him all the time and always compare things she didn’t like that I would say to stuff she said he would say. Granted, all the things she would say about him were negative. Still, I knew you don’t just talk about your ex as much as she did if you’re over him like she said she was. In hindsight it was foolish of me to continue the relationship. When I called her out on talking about him too much she apologized profusely and told me “it’s difficult when you spend 5 years with someone it’s hard to not to bring them up”. Bs

I appreciate the advice though bro, I know my value and I don’t deserve to be hers or anyone’s fall back plan. I think you’re right about the trauma bond thing you said though. Apart of me still wants to forgive her if she ever does decide to give “us” another chance. Idk man, this whole situation just really f’d with me. Like how do you love me head over heels one mouth and hate me for seemingly no specific reason the next. Craziness for real…

 

Re-reading what I posted, I may have been a bit on the harsh side, and should have softened the blow a bit.  I just wanted to 'keep it real' and be 'straight up' so you could see the situation for what it was.

If you aren't already in therapy, I would suggest doing some therapy to deal with what has just happened to you.  We always really want to think the best of our partners; however, when they do something like that, it really messes with your mind with all of the crazy making behaviors -- hence the reason why I am suggesting an individual T.

In addition to the T, this is my number one recommendation - do self-care, whatever it looks like for you, exercise outside [run/jog/bike ride/walk/hike/etc.], nice long hot shower, get lost in a movie/book/tv series, hangout with friends, or whatever like doing and can get emotionally lost in it.

Take care, and good luck.

So sorry man, that may feel like the worst possible news but at the same time, it may provide a little clarity as well.  Why is she around him enough to where he feels like he has the right to search her phone?  That's not just a casual relationship, there's something still there.  Please be very careful and temper your expectations.

Also, remember that many here talk about the BPD loop they go through.  That feels like what's happening here, and you're inside your own loop as well.  Only you can choose to break that pattern, she doesn't get to choose that for you.  I wish you luck and I'm here for you. 

Sorry I couldn't reply earlier, was out of town for business the past 4 days.

I appreciate your concern pook! I’m hoping clarity comes soon because this situation is effecting my mental pretty bad..Okay, there’s a big thing I didn’t mention for some dumb reason. I guess I was embarrassed on this situation seeming even more hopeless for me. In hindsight I don’t know why as I know you guys only want to help..

She has two young kids (2 year old and 3 year old) with this guy, her ex fiancé. That’s why they are in closer contact than they would be otherwise. They split time and have days were they both are together with the kids. I underestimated how much her children, and by proxy her ex would affect this relationship. I know, naive and short sighted on my part. The fact she had kids never bothered me, only that he would always be in picture as a result. That’s definitely something I should’ve taken into MUCH stronger consideration way back when I first found out. I could’ve saved myself a lot of pain and heartbreak. Spilled milk now..
 
I should break the loop and just be okay with her staying with her ex fiancé and their kids. Not only does she have untreated bdp and a fiancé she apparently bounces back and forward from. She also has two young children with the guy. There’s tons of reasons I should just move on and pursue a healthier relationship. The problem is I’m very much in love with this girl unfortunately. The time we spend together made me happier then I’ve been in a long long time. It’s hard to let that go.

ALL of this sounds very familiar to me, even one of the scenarios you describe here are nearly identical to my experience with my ex. I won't go into details here, but I was struck by the similarities.

Regarding the ex being abusive, same here in my relationship. The ex was "an abuser", "a narcissist" who "got his supply from their son", violent and dangerous.

She love this story, loved to constantly point out to me what a jerk he was, talked about him constantly. It was the main subject of our calls or topics on our walks or coffee dates. She even forwarded many, many of his emails and texts to her...to me. Had me read them and tell her/agree with her that he was an abusive a**hole.

Now, here's the thing. I never once detected abusiveness in his communications to her, and he had no way of knowing that others (me) would see them. Of course, he may have been careful since she could have used threats and lies against him in court (even though they had divorced years earlier and had a parenting plan). But I never ONCE saw anything in his communications to her that was even mildly abusive, or even hinting at being an abusive person.

I detected frustration with her- which I understand since she is very evasive and secretive- and I sensed confusion on his part about her behaviors and the way she tried to manipulate him through their son, which oh did she ever do.

So I don't really believe her that he was abusive. I think she made it up. She, on the other hand, is a textbook abuser/bully- name calling, explosive anger, lies by evasion and omission, straight out lies about what we did/said/agreed to, etc, putdowns, mocking, mimicking my voice when I was being yelled at by her, and accusations of things I simply did not do.

For example, she told me that I yelled at her in the car. This is something I never would do, and never did. It shocked me that she would say that, because then what else would she say I did? And who but me was in the best position to know if that was true? It absolutely wasn't, and it scared me that she would tell me I did that.

So, take her story of the abusive ex with a grain of salt.

I’m very curious which of our stories were nearly identical haha. It’s strangely comforting when I see others have similar experiences to mine with their bpd partners. It reminds me I’m not alone in dealing with this nightmare.
That’s the thing I really love about these forums. It reminds me I’m not the bad person she painted me as for no reason. I’m not overly clingy or “constantly up her ass” as she put it. Or made to feel unworthy of her despite always being real with her and treating her right.

In one week she went from everything bad under the sun was my fault to “you shouldn’t settle for less, I’m less, we learned a lot from each other but you can do better than me”. So stressful how fast they’re opinions on things can change or get distorted.

As to the abuse claim, yeah I’ve come to believe she was fabricating most of the stuff she said about him. If he did hit her, I wouldn’t be shocked if she was the one who got violent first. (She admitted to me that she punched him before). Not that that justifies hitting her however. I just have a feeling she hasn’t been honest with me about a fair bit of things. It hurts man, and I really thought this girl was the one before all this mess started happening.

You know that you need to break the loop.

You also describe what is known as the push-pull dynamic of the trauma bond with her.  For this reason alone, talk to an individual therapist for yourself, so you can effectively deal with this issue.

Take care, and be safe.

I know, these forums are very validating, especially because we don't trust ourselves. Their behavior is confusing, we get told we screwed up (but don't know how, or why the thing we did is a huge screw up), they are hot and cold...all leaves us wondering what's true, what's not.

For the things that are identical in my relationship: telling me she loved me very early, pushing hard for the relationship early, getting really angry/offended at things I couldn't even grasp were 'bad', explosive temper, carefully wording texts or communications so as to not make her mad (walking on eggshells), the 'testing' (in my case she was home with a recovery from tooth surgery and, after I took off work all morning the day to drive her home, go to the pharmacy, make lunch with her son, when I called her and texted multiple times later that day and the next asking her what she needs, how she's feeling, what can I bring her, she 'turned off her phone because she was so mad at me' and didn't talk to me for several days (I was supposed to "know what she needed/wanted without asking" and "her friends know what to do without asking", the overreaction when you forgot the date but still sent her a text showing you missed her.

Did I miss anything? Oh my gosh these things are hard.

All of these conversations resonate so much for me too. I agree, Gutt3rSnipe, you are not the only one dealing with this; we've all been through some version of it with a pwBPD. Sad that we can all commiserate and understand, but it's also beautiful at times to know I am not alone, crazy, or bad either.

My stbx H did everything you, jaded7, and others describe and more. It's almost comical how alike some pwBPD are! The story was always he was a victim and the exes were abusive. In reality, it was he who was extremely abusive. It sounds like a familiar story with your partner.

As Salty mentions, read up on trauma bonds or talk to your T. This research helped me understand what I was going through.

What are you doing to take care of your mental health in all this?  :hi: I know I really struggled to take care of myself in my experience with my stbx H uBPD. Though, once I started doing things for myself and getting reintegrated into self-care, I started to have some clarity.

Wow..See, what your partner did in the tooth surgery situation is just irrational and petty. You go out of your way to help and be there for them and they reward you with anger and the silent treatment. I’ve noticed dating her she’d often would put me into impossible no win situations, then gaslight me about it later. Similar to what yours did.

Mine had the nerve to call me selfish (amongst other things) because I was “annoying” her constantly about her ex. This was about an hour after I just voluntarily loaned her money for stuff she needed. You bend over for them and they treat you like sh*t as your reward. If you’re being painted black you can’t do anything right in their eyes apparently.



Did I miss anything? Oh my gosh these things are hard.
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It’s nice to know I’m not alone. Honestly, after this relationship ended I’ve never felt so alone in my entire life. Family and friends couldn’t understand what I was going through so I’m happy I found these forums and all of you responding!

I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through similar things in your relationship. Being mistreated and or ditched for reasons that aren’t normally a big deal to a heathy person is incredibly stressful. Hell, a lot of the reasons they devalue, discard, and abuse aren’t even grounded in reality..

As to what I’m doing to help myself get through this. I’m in the process of getting a mental health screening and talk to a therapist. In the meantime, I’m going to check out those books that you and some others on here suggested. Anything to try and make sense of this mess I’ve got myself into with her.

Okay, that makes more sense- they have kids so they have to communicate often.  I'm so sorry, my friend, but it doesn't feel like it's going to turn out the way you want it to.

Your mental health is the most important thing in your life (well, besides food and water, LOL).  Talk to a counselor and work through your feelings.  Posting here often helps a ton too.  I'm here for you if you ever need to talk or just rant.

The eye surgery thing was SO confusing to me! I truly, truly wanted to take care of her, I would have done anything for her. I was operating under the assumption that if I asked her what she needed, what I could do, she would tell me. Instead she just said that everything was fine, she didn't need anything, she's just resting in bed. I started to then suggest things she might want-like playing some kind of game- because I sensed that she was testing me...although I couldn't put it into words then. Days later when she would finally speak to me again, I reminded her that I had asked her what she needed many times, and I had even suggested things I could do for her...in addition to what I wrote above about her telling me "her friends didn't need to ask" etc, she mocked the things I had suggested!

I'm glad that my experiences help you feel less alone. Everybody who shares here makes me feel understood and less alone too. It's amazing to me how long it has taken me to start to come to some understanding that none of this is normal.

A book I highly recommend is The Verbally Abusive Relationship, it's a great way of understanding people who need to control and have power over you. I keep it right next to my bed and will grab it to just read a few pages in those times I'm feeling bad and confused. It really is very, very clear.

I'll check that book out, never heard of it before.

I'm in a relationship now that seems to fit that description, although she doesn't check many of the boxes for BPD.  I do know she has some childhood abandonment issues, and she does seem to want to use anger and abuse to control situations, but unlike my last BPD relationship, this one had a "honeymoon period" that lasted up until we moved in together, and over the last year and a half has gotten progressively worse.

That book, although it doesn't deal with BPD or narcissistic relationships specifically, is an amazing piece of work for it's insight into human behavior and the way she breaks down the dynamics of an angry verbally abusive person and the relationship.

It's a classic at this point and has sold millions of copies. I just marvel at how it captures my confusion and despair at my treatment by her. You should note that it's written from the female partner's perspective, although it's easy to just shift the pronouns in your head after a few pages.

I hope you-and others- can read it. It is so validating. Whenever I feel really, really bad I read a little bit and my anxiety goes way down.

That is so messed up what she did to you in that situation man. I’ve had plenty of situations like yours where I only had her intentions in mind. Regardless, during the devaluation stage almost everything I did was thrown back in my face anyways. I still don’t regret helping her as shes obviously very sick mentally. All I can do is pray for her that she gets the help she needs.


Yeah, I’m definitely not holding my breath for a miracle. The more I read about the disorder the more it seems damn near impossible to have a healthy relationship with an untreated anyhow. I just hope she goes through with the therapy like she said she was.

My mental heath has definitely taken a hit from this, so I’m definitely going to talk to someone asap man! I already have MDD & GAD so you can imagine going from “finding love of my life” to “nightmare in disguise” isn’t good for the old mental haha. I appreciate the kind words and advice!

My mental heath has definitely taken a hit from this, so I’m definitely going to talk to someone asap man! I already have MDD & GAD so you can imagine going from “finding love of my life” to “nightmare in disguise” isn’t good for the old mental haha. I appreciate the kind words and advice!

That about sums it up for me -- from finding the love of your life to being in a post-breakup hell, wondering how it all went so wrong.   I found I was starting to act crazy too, which made it even worse because I did plenty of things to contribute to the breakup, but -- luckily I've had healthy relationships too -- so I knew this was out of character for me.   Classic BPD.

I've read this entire thread and if I can give you one piece of unsolicited advice it would be this:  since you seem pretty conflicted about wanting to go back with her (ie you recognize how unhealthy it is but you still want it.)  This is pretty typical of the early phases of the breakup and when you are most vulnerable to being charmed back in.   Each charm-discard cycle will get harder and harder and take a bigger and bigger toll on you.  Eventually you'll end up so destroyed and hollowed-out, you won't be able to leave (and that's exactly when she'll be most likely to discard you for good.)   

I made a deal with myself that I WAS allowed to make the decision to go back to her, but only once I had fully healed myself.   In other words, I went (and still am) NC, but I told myself that NC doesn't have to be forever, only until I am 100% healed from this relationship -- meaning, I could bump into her on the street and have zero reaction.    That's probably still not what you want to hear, because its going to take time to get to that level of detachment.   But for me that was enough to go NC and stay NC.   

None of us can make healthy decisions about what to do (stay vs go) with BPD when we're in a place of such hurt and lack and neediness.   You'll never be able to make a good decision from a place of weakness like where you are now.  One should always come at a relationship from a place of strength and completeness.

Interesting strategy for staying NC and building yourself back up again. For me, I started this relationship from a place of brokenness from the beginning of it. I was neglecting my mental heath and still wasn’t completely over my ex before my bpd ex. I think that’s why I let myself fall so hard for this girl despite all her major flags that screamed something was off. I let it go on and now I'm paying the price.

That being said, You are correct that I can’t make a heathy decision from the place I'm at now. Everything in me knows that I need to let her go for my own well-being but I can’t force myself to not love her and want to be with her. In the mean time I’m going to take your advice and try to toughen my mind to make decisions from a place of strength. Therapy and other heathy outlets (like this forum) to build myself up.

I’m curious what your bpd relationship was like if you don’t mind going into some detail. Did they do/say similar things to what I’ve already stated in my experience?

Hey buddy.  That's good advice and I hope you take it.  We've all been there; knowing what the right thing to do is yet not being able to do it.  Just focus on yourself and find healthy activities to fill your day.

Your question wasn't for me, but I'll quickly share my story anyway.  Met my wife in college, and was thinking about asking her out when I heard her say to her girlfriends, "I'm going to marry <my name> someday."  I heard that and thought it was fate for us to be together, asked her out that day, and we were married about a year and a half later.  Dating was incredible; she used to come "wake me up" before college classes and I was completely in love with her.

Shortly after being married, things changed dramatically.  My wife was never home, always hanging out with her parents while I worked long hours, and I'd come home to an empty house and have to cook myself dinner...after I cleaned the house from her mess.  We'd argue and it wasn't long before she'd become violent, swinging on me.  I think we broke up 3 times in the first 4 years, and we already had two kids by then.  But we were going thru the cycles- love bombing, silent treatment, arguing, making up...it was exhausting.  

Fast forward maybe 12 years, and my oldest daughter was struggling with bipolar/BPD.  Lashing out, running away, starting fights, threatening suicide...it sucked.  I had to be ultra strict while my wife always gave into everything.  That's the first time we read the eggshells book and heard about BPD.  Never dreamed it could be my wife as well- I just thought that's how marriages were.  And like so many here, I was a forgiving person that didn't focus on the past or the obvious patterns.  I often felt like a single father because I had to do almost everything for the family and the kids myself.

Throughout the marriage, my wife would have times where she'd be depressed and shut down.  Often from anxiety just from life in general, she'd get migraines and panic attacks.  The depression became more and more frequent and last year, she was almost always down.  We didn't fight though, hadn't had an argument in probably 10 years, because I'd just accept her behavior, comfort her however I could, and just live with feeling alone.  Some here have mentioned "quiet bpd".

About 7 months ago, my wife completely shut down around me.  We didn't talk at all anymore...she was basically in her own world within her mind.  She told me she wasn't happy and left about a week before our first grandchild was born.  Don't think she had an affair since the person she latched onto was a handicapped young man she cares for at work.  He became her everything, her reason for living, and she became obsessed with him just like she obsessed over me at the start of the marriage.

Within days of breaking up, we tried to talk things out but there was something very off.  She was manic, over the moon happy all the time and loving the freedom from marriage.  She made comments about the handicapped kid's father, how she wanted to pursue a relationship with him.  Denies it all now, even though she told multiple people.  Says nothing ever happened, but who knows.  Around that same time though, she lashed out at me hardcore- I never loved her, never cared about her family, etc.  Suddenly she hated me and wanted nothing to do with me...and you can imagine how I reacted after 24 years of marriage.  It destroyed me.

But eventually, I did heal.  Got back in church and the gym.  Found stuff to keep busy in life, and maybe 3 months later I realized how horrible my marriage was the entire 24 years.  Not that my wife was horrible or that we didn't have great memories, but I could see the patterns clearly for the 1st time ever.  Talked to our doctor and she said that it's clearly BPD.  I went no contact shortly after that and it has been liberating.

I'm now 6.5 months out and I think about reconciling, but on my terms.  I can't fix her and she would have to take therapy seriously, but she says there's nothing wrong.  She's depressed again and I'm expecting a full meltdown soon.  I don't think I got the typical cycles everyone else does because my wife is "in love" with a 27 year old blind guy in a wheelchair that has several health issues the mentality of a 6 year old.  She's like his mom now and her whole life revolves around taking care of him.  He's past his life expectancy already and it breaks my heart for what will happen when he does pass away- but that's not my problem anymore.

My story is pretty unique since I have two BPD stories in one, plus my wife's BPD was much more inward and self-punishing than my daughter's.  But I clearly see the same patterns with both of them; one explodes and lashes out, the other gets depressed and shuts down.  Not sure which is worse, to be honest, but they both hurt a ton.  At least with my kid, she'd explode, shut down, and then balance out within a few days.  My wife just stayed down and hurting because she could never regulate her feelings- I feel compassion for her more than anything and that's probably why I haven't 100% moved on yet.  My kid did take therapy seriously though and we're very close now...she's doing great in life too and we're pretty much best friends.

I hope that helps!  It is therapeutic to write it out.

Pook,

   Your story resonates a lot with mine, a lot of parallels, about 70% similar, including a child with symptoms and the emotional distancing of my spouse.

Gutt3rSnipe,

   I too will share a little bit, so you can see some of the similarities to your own situation; however, it will be the 'short version' as I don't want to hijack the thread too much, but only to share how similar BPD stories are, drill down on my Avatar/NickName if you want the full story.

   Borderlines are plentiful, in the general population, about 1 in 20 are diagnosable as a borderline; however, in reality, that number is around 1 in 80, so 3 out of every 4 are undiagnosed borderlines [uBPD].

   I have a uBPDw, she has 8/9 symptoms, and the 9th is halfway there but may not rise to the point of being disordered.  My son, who is too young to diagnose, has been labelled with oppositional defiance tendencies, and has borderline-like splitting and borderline-like rages too.  I manage his borderline-likeness in a similar way.  Like Pook, I am physically caretaking two people with borderline-like symptoms.  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354088.msg13181622#msg13181622 goes more indepth.

   My previous relationship was with a much more severe individual who had both uBPD/uNPD.  I also have a relatively 'new' close friend [only supporting her emotionally at a confidant level] who says she is BPD and is self-aware when she is splitting me white, and is 80% similar to my uBPDw, so I am learning from her how to manage my wife, and I her uBPD/NPDh - definite mental 'twilight zone'-like stuff.  So, I am actively emotionally managing 3 borderline / borderline-like relationships at the moment - wife, confidant, and son.  Each presents differently with its own sets of unique challenges, yet all share components that are eerily similar.  Out of the 4 close relationships, 3 were attracted to me [probably by my codependent caretaker tendencies], and 1 is my son and is not by choice. 

   I've been with my wife for 22 years, we will be married 20 years this April.  I was oblivious to what BPD was until June of last year, and I have been learning ever since.  How to establish and maintain boundaries among other management techniques.  My 'friend,' I met her last year on a facebook group similar yet different to BPD Family, I knew she was BPD before she even told me - once you learn about the symptoms/traits it is very easy to spot, much like anorexia nervosa.  I have been aware of BPD since June of last year, and it has been a learning experience ever since.

   Let me know if you want me to expand in a particular area, as I have 4+ d/uBPD [the '+' plus is that I suspect one to three more others, but don't have enough observational data to substantiate my theories as they are 'high-functioning invisibles'] relationships worth of experiences to draw off [that I wish I didn't have], plus a plethora of additional mental health issues to reference in other personal relationships including comorbid [co-existing in the same individual] and/or independent versions of ADD, ADHD, NPD, likely sociopathy or possible psychopathy, anorexia nervosa [AN], other ED's, OD, ODD, OCPD, etc.

   Irregardless of any medical condition, physical or mental, one must be self-aware that there is an issue, in order to address the issue no matter what it is.  And then there must be a will to address it.  Both must be present for someone to fix their issue whatever it might be.

   I will wrap this up, with my number one piece of advice, and that is to do 'self-care' - make sure it includes individual therapy, exercise outdoors [as simple as a walk], among othe activities that you enjoy doing to recharge your spirit.

   Take Care.

There were a lot of similarities to your story, although my ex didn't act as crazy and angry about things as yours did.  She kept more of it to herself.   But she had terrible spending problems.  In the first discard cycle, when she recontacted me, she had been living in her car homeless for a week or two (sleeping there) with her two daughters and of course got back in touch with me needing help.  I even checked out her story with her daughters and some other ways too and she was telling the truth.  

But after her first discard cycle, I just couldn't trust her again the same way I could before.   I became hyper vigilant, looking for signs of things being wrong and constantly checking out facts whatever she told me.    The thing that caused me to break up with her was when I saw her start to devalue again.   I got too freaked out and could see the same process was going to repeat all over again, so I broke up with her at that point.  

But I definitely didn't break up with her from a position of strength, I was really injured from her months of chipping away at my self esteem.   She never did anything so horrible --- like yours has talked about suicide which is an absolutely over-the-line-deal-breaker in my book.   But her endless push-pull-hot-cold just wore me down and hollowed me out over time.   I couldn't take any more of it.  

I didn't like who I was becoming, so even though I could never make a 100% airtight case to myself for why I should leave her, I just felt so awful and burnt out from being with her.   This is the gigantic advantage of having had healthy relationships, you just know something is wrong, no matter how good the BPD is at gaslighting and hiding things.   You can just feel it.  

Healthy relationships don't do that to you, unless you yourself have a disordered personality.  But again, I don't think BPDs ever have healthy relationships, unless they have been in treatment for a long time ---- like years.

I can't help but to notice the two different sentiments in what you said.   Getting away was liberating, but you think about reconciling too?   I can't conceive of a reason why you would want to go back ever, based on the story you told.   Although I could see a situation, far, far into the future where a borderline has been in treatment for years where it would make sense to have a conversation with her and her therapist and see if she seems ready to reconcile.   At least that was the deal I made with myself, had my ex been open to seeking therapy (which she wasn't.)

I really appreciate you guys telling me your stories. You all have certainly been through ALOT. The amount of pain this disorder can bring to unsuspecting people shouldn’t be underestimated. You guys are warriors for real for putting up with it for as long as you have.

*Update*

So she FaceTimed me earlier after having been blocked. She told me that her and her ex fiancé are not officially back together but they seemed well on their way imo. She tells me that we weren’t good together and I should find someone else. I told her I’m still trying to get over you, last thing I need is another potential relationship. She then goes on to tell me that her and her ex fiancé just have this special bond and the kids are the main reason (among my supposed disregard for her feelings narrative bs) why we couldn’t be a couple. So we ended our talk amicable and on friendly terms. She says she has to block me again and I tell her I get it.

Then a couple hours later she calls me when she’s with her friend in the car. She is in a different mood and is more manic like and goofy than she was earlier. She tells me she didn’t mean to call me because I’m suppose to be blocked.. I know that’s a lie because she always use to say “oh I didn’t mean to call you” or “I didn’t mean to FaceTime you” all the time when she was mad at me and wanted to talk. We joked around a bit and she “tested” me by telling me she’s about to go see a dude for sex. She eventually admitted she was only joking and her and her friend cracked up laughing. After a while she brought up other girls again and I once again had to reiterate I wasn’t interested in finding another girl because I’m still hurt from her. We eventually say goodbye not long after her and her friend got back to her house.

Any suggestions on why she called me twice in one day to ask these questions and try and be friendly toward me? My guess is she’s testing me and wants to see if I’ll stay a back up and not be angry with her just in case. I guess she also could be just feeling bad that she basically used me while her and her ex were fighting, and she just wanted to feel better about herself by trying to get me to move on. Idk what to think as both things could be possible. Her bdp makes me think the first is more likely as a backup plan is right up their alley.

You know her better than anyone else here.  Your guess is better than ours, as you know her better than we do.

It sounds like you do want to get back together with her.  I would suggest journaling what she says, and what she does, to see if there are any inconsistencies, and if there are, how egregious they are.  

You have called her a 'liar', so there are honesty issues there.  She is encouraging you to move on and see others, not typical BPD behavior, unless she has found someone else, but has indicated otherwise which is a reversal of getting back together with her ex.  She also has indicated she wanted to have sex with some other dude other than you and then told you it was a joke.  Also, not typical BPD behavior [telling you she is going to do it before doing it].  Something else is likely happening here.  Keep your eyes open, record your observations, and compare notes from day to day, like a detective to see what is actually going on.

She has clearly 'suggested' that you should move on -- I think she is trying to tell you something, and you might not be listening.  Do you think you are listening to her, or are you listening to your own wants, or is it something else?  It is something for you to ponder.

Take care, and do some self care.  Only you can take care of yourself.

“Any suggestions on why she called me twice in one day to ask these questions and try and be friendly toward me? My guess is she’s testing me and wants to see if I’ll stay a back up and not be angry with her just in case. I guess she also could be just feeling bad that she basically used me while her and her ex were fighting, and she just wanted to feel better about herself by trying to get me to move on. Idk what to think as both things could be possible. Her bdp makes me think the first is more likely as a backup plan is right up their alley…”

My guess its the push-pull mechanism being portrayed here. She wants you to know that she is moving on, But also keep you in the loop, because she still needs your validation. The same thing happened for me with my bpd ex, during some of our break-up cycles. Even though she found new boyfriends (one time only a few days after our breakup), she would eventually contact me after blocking me, just to tell me How difficult it was for her to move on with a new partner. It also happened after the final breakup. Even after the NC started some months ago, she has indirectly made her self noticed,, by asking common friends not to have contact with me, since she is scared I will use Them to get her back.
So I’d expect her to call you again. And again. So if I were you I would block her. She is not going to change unless she wants to.

Wow I never thought that’s what she could be doing, just using for attention and validation. If that’s what she’s doing then it’s pathetic. As to your ex, why would she tell you how hard it was to move on from you? That doesn’t make sense to me if she’s the one who broke up with you. Then again, a lot of their behavior doesn’t make sense. I’ve been debating on if I should block her or not. If she’s gonna keep basically torturing me with her ex fiancé/new man I’m gonna have to.

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Personally I think the sex with another dude comment was just a test to see what id say, or just to annoy me. She has always said things off the wall like that out of nowhere to get a rise out of me since I’ve known her. As to the other stuff. As you already know I’m sure, even though not one person with the disorder is the same in their thought process and actions. it’s hard to separate the person from the mental disorder sometimes as it influences them so much. Their thoughts are atypical to what a healthy mind would think to do in a lot of situations (especially when it comes to relationship stuff).I was just curious what you guys thought, as there’s obviously no way anyone but her could know for certain.

As to moving on, yes I think that’s best for my sanity. Easier said than done however. Despite me only telling you guys the negatives in the relationship, it did have some very good moments and memories. Those aren’t so easily discarded for me unfortunately. I know I need to think of what’s best for me but that doesn’t stop me from loving her as I’m sure you can understand. It will take some time for sure.

Actually I broke up with her once. During this breakup she was diagnosed with BPD, she discarded the diagnose, but told me about it. She changed the psychologist for a psychiatrist afterwards, since she herself thought it was "just" depression. And it was also during this breakup, she contacted me saying these things. For what reason I dont know. I can only, in hindsight, explain it with the push and pull.
However, every other time we broke up, she did do the push-pull as well. Her tactics would include our kids (we dont have kids together, but my daughter was very close to her son), running into each other at random places, extreme volume of texting, suicide attempts, new boyfriends, trashing me, and so on. Even with NC she went out of her way to stay in touch. All of a sudden my sister, with whom my ex never really spoke a word, was the most interesting person on facebook.

I briefly told you my story above, and my wife/child are very different people.  But one of my daughter's signature moves is to say the most outrageous, awkward things just for the pure shock value.  She's 24 and I still don't have her fully figured out, but my best guess its to get genuine reactions out of others.  It's like if she makes other people feel awkward, then she feels more normal?  I'm not sure.  Sometimes it's hysterical what she says, but sometimes it's borderline evil too.

With my wife, she made it very clear that it's over.  Then she'd tell things to the kids so it would get back to me.  She unfriended me on facebook, but stalks my Facebook through all her family's accounts.  When we talked the other day after months of NC, she brought up dozens of smaller things in my life just in casual conversation that she shouldn't have known.  Why?  I have no idea why.  It's the push/pull thing.  And I don't think that goes away, even when the relationship ends.

I genuinely believe that these relationships aren't truly over until we say they're over.

Yeah pook, idk how you’ve dealt with living with two women who have bpd behavior. How’d you manage the stress man? I’ve only dated my ex for a couple of months and I’m tired lol.

To your thing you said about them never leaving. I actually believe you’re correct about that. From what I’ve read on the internet about people who have the disorder, a lot of them have stated something similar. Basically as long as they still communicate or stalk you, you are at risk of being recycled or pushed/pulled further. Whenever they’re the ones who cut all communication and stop stalking you that’s when it’s “over” for them (not always though). Anecdotal yes, but I have seen that stated a fair amount of times. If that rings true for all people with the disorder I couldn’t tell ya. Seems like a good hypothesis to me haha.

My experience is different.  My uBPD/NPDexgf once she found a new NPD supply [boy friend], it was NC and they leave for good, especially if they owe you $$$'s on loans.  Just adding my two cents to the conversation. 

Yeah, I wish I knew- none of us do.  But I have figured out that there's two people in relationships and we have the right to walk away as well.  In other words, we can't be recycled if we just say 'no thanks'.

I’m sure the personality of the bpd individual and circumstances on how the relationship ended among other factors play a part in if they decide to recycle an ex or not. I’ve heard it happens quite frequently, but the relationships are almost always shorter lived for various reasons.


Exactly! I still catch myself viewing this as a normal relationship for some reason. I have to kept reminding myself that I was involved with a very unwell person with a serious mental Illness that makes heathy relationships all but impossible. I know the result of what would happen if she ever did come back trying to recycle what we had. It would end in the same way, or hell, even worse than the last time. Regardless of what I think right in this moment, If that day ever comes I hope I have the strength to say “no thanks” instead of giving in.

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I can't really answer that because I don't fully understand it myself.  Even though I know my wife needs years of therapy, that things will never be good until then, there's a small part of me that will always think of her as the love of my life.  I'm 98% over her...but it feels like that last 2% will always be there wishing my best friend was back.

Me too.  I've read books, spent countless hours on this site, and watched tons of videos.  I have my BPD daughter as well that I can bounce questions off of to better understand the disease and the thought process.  Yet I still don't know if I have the strength to just say "no thanks" if/when the time comes.  Even though I'm not in love anymore, I just don't know how to not care about someone I spent half my life with.

It might not give you strength in that regard  but your knowledge on this terrible illness can help a lot of people on this site, including myself,  If that’s any consolation man. I think it’s totally understandable that you’d still care about someone after all the time you’ve invested. Who knows, maybe if she does come back it’ll work out this time around. Is she receiving any therapy?

*Update*

So I believe today was my official discard. She was unexpectedly level headed during our exchange. I sent her a message basically telling her about herself and all the hell she’s put me through. Here’s what she said.

She told me that we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the cause of our relationship end. She still blames me for the relationship failure(not surprising). She told me that what we had was fun and it had its good moments but her feelings have changed. She wants to try and make it work with her ex for her children’s sake, even though she’s not in love with him. Apparently the final straw on when she lost feelings for me is my “clingy” behavior. It really bothered her because I questioned her about her ex three times… She considered that being clingy..

Really I think I was just a filler for her while he was painted black. Once I ticked too many of her red flag boxes she went back to him. I’ve never seen a more slow systematic destruction  of a relationship in my life. Ever since I missed that one date it’s been a gradual devaluation to the discard bin. It’s unbelievable.. I just kept getting more and more flaws as time went on. Even if I  did right by her in her eyes I still never recovered to get any closer to her romantically. It never got any better in that regard from that missed ginger bread date to the present. It’s almost like she had two different views of me in the same person if that makes any sense. It’s kinda hard to explain, but if someone could shed some light on that I’d appreciate it.

And here’s the worst part, she’s totally oblivious to the illness effecting her in the slightest. I get that’s every untreated pwBPD, but it’s beyond frustrating and heartbreaking to witness it for myself. I truly loved that girl and my heart is very heavy losing her. Even though I know it’s impossible, I still was praying somehow she’d snap out of it and see things clearly eventually. Remember all the good times we had, remember all the things I’ve done for her. This disorder is truly a terrible terrible thing. For them and nons alike…

I am genuinely sorry for you loss, sending you virtual hugs.    :hug:

Most people with high-functioning pwBPD cannot accept or even recognize that they are borderline.  As a result, 3/4 of all diagnosable borderlines are not diagnosed.  Of the ones that are diagnosed, they are the more violent ones and have more pronounced symptoms as being borderline, like all mental health issues exists on a spectrum, some are high-functioning, others are not.

That said, even though I know you are of heavy heart -- even though it doesn't seem this way now, consider yourself lucky that you dodged a bullet, I speak from personal experience on this from my first dance with the borderline [I am nearing the end of my 2nd dance].

Please see your therapist about this, so you can process your feelings better.

I will wrap this up, with my number one piece of advice, and that is to do 'self-care' - make sure it includes individual therapy, exercise outdoors [as simple as a walk], among other activities that you enjoy doing to recharge your spirit.

Take care.

I'm so sorry man, but that's her overwhelming fear of abandonment that keeps her from making logical decisions.  And until she gets help, those patterns will repeat throughout her lifetime.  Eventually she'll snap on the ex and your phone will be ringing, and it may seem like it's a fresh start.  But it probably won't be, it's just another trip around the ferris wheel.

None of us can tell you what to do here, but we all understand that you love her and want what's best for her.  Everyone here wants what's best for you as well.  It's so incredibly tough but I'm glad you found us at least.

Thank you guys so much for your advice and comforting during this fiasco I found myself in. I’m not the kinda guy that falls easily or often so I’m struggling pretty bad. I know you both went through far worse so I appreciate the words of wisdom. I think I’ll be alright eventually, it’s just gonna take some time and effort. I just really thought I finally found something real after so many other let downs in the past. All my siblings are happily married with kids and I’m the oldest of them.

Honestly, I started off really hating her fiancée, but the more I learn about this illness, I actually feel sorry for him and their children. The amount of things he must of put up with over five years has to be unreal. I’m sure you guys could testify to some nightmare fuel in your experiences in your relationships as well.

As to her coming back, I have a gut feeling she might one day. In the meantime, I’ll just have to prepare myself mentally to not give in. I know it would end badly again, and I don’t want to re open a wound I’ve already closed. Ya know. Thanks again guys!

You're welcome.

Do 'self-care' whatever that looks like for you.

A word of caution before you consider another relationship.  I have been to the borderline dance twice, both times unintentionally.  I find that my own personality attracts the 'CRAZY' like a flame attracts the beautiful moths at night.  So, if and when you do decide to dip your toes back into the dating scene be on the lookout for the signs of 'crazy'.  Others have already made lists of what that looks like, I am putting the links here so you may know what to look for.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=353716.0;all
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329294.0;all
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334928.0

Take care, and be safe on your life's journey.

Thanks man. I’ve read through them. I think it’s going to be a good while before I even consider another relationship. This last one really put a bad taste in my mouth in that department. I’ll definitely be more diligent in the future to the checking of bpd red flags.