BPDFamily.com

Hi all,

After making the decision that I was going to disengage with my ex who has a good amount of BPD traits, and really going around in my head about it for weeks and weeks, I thought it was done. But of course he came back fighting for it, and he fought hard...

Funnily enough, something strange caused me to get into a complete spin and I made an impulsive decision to go back in - my friend wanted an update on what had been happening, and she was very forceful with her opinions and telling me what I should do, really throwing the book at him and labelling him as a terrible, toxic person. Something about this approach made me feel very defensive and angry, something along the lines of others not seeing their own shadows but being so keen to write other people off... I also felt totally disempowered, anxious and a bit out of my body from feeling like I was being told what to do without being consulted or heard in terms of what I thought or wanted.

My weird reaction to this was to spend the next few days engaging with my ex and listening to all of his promises... saying all the things that I wanted to hear, which was mostly that he recognised his problems, was going to seek help for them, wanted to commit 100%, knew I was his person, offer me a safe space to be me, wanted to offer me all the support I needed in life etc.

Something was still stopping me from going back in, I just couldn't push past the anxiety of it all, my body telling me the answer and that I should be very cautious and not to make any quick decisions... I said I needed to spend time in therapy and so did he, but that I was willing to start re-building and give it another go. But then after the first time we spent time together, he started to pull back again, and did the very familiar push/pull dance for another week, wanting to see me, not wanting to see me, distant then clingy... till I pulled the pin and said I wasn't going to let him pick me up and put me down like this any longer.

It feels like the dance of a fearful avoidant attachment... but could also be related to BPD. He did say that he's finally ready to seek help for his problems, which have caused such issues in all his relationships - he thinks it's ADHD. I agree, but there's clearly either BPD or fearful avoidant attachment in the mix too... it could be a long road for him. I said I couldn't wait for him, I needed to be with someone who could treat me in a way that reflected my worth. A few extra messages, and now it's done (again).

Wondering if that's a familiar dynamic for BPD. I know it's my fault for entertaining it again, but those promises of things I deeply desire, and the extra moments of intimacy and love - they're so so hard to resist. Despite all of this, I can't help but keep compassion for him and know he doesn't mean it when he runs and pushes me away the way he does. I wish I could keep him in my life in some way... the loss feels profound. Onto No Contact now for the first time in three months since we broke up...

Hi seekingtheway! Thank you for sharing your experience with us.


You seem to have a lot of insight as to how your friend`s approach made you feel, and how this affected your subsequent actions. If something like this happened again, in what way would you want to react?


I`m sorry you went through this again. It does seem like you are clear in what you want, and it`s a fair decision to walk away. 


I urge you not to lose this sense of compassion. In the long run, I think it helps with healing. As to whether you can keep him in your life, time will tell. For now, as things are still fresh, it`s important to give yourself the space to grieve before revisiting any different form of relationship.

How are you feeling today?

Thanks so much Tina - good question. If something like that happened again, I'd like think that I had better boundaries in the moment and just stated how I felt about it and him, and said I didn't really want to delve into it further. It affected me a lot, and I think that's because my nervous system is totally shot at the moment, not least because of a three month push/pull situation where I've said goodbye and hello to someone I love about 6 times... I feel so much anxiety at the moment.

I've been waiting to start therapy - the wait hasn't helped... I've needed it for months really... so thank you for also asking how I am - I'm not in a great place to be honest. Quite depressed and anxious, and feeling very isolated and alone. Other things going on in my life are adding to this... life is a bit of a melting pot atm.

The final goodbye has unsettled me... I called it quits on the phone, quite emotional, saying I deserve more, am ready for full commitment and a healthy relationship etc, and can't deal with the push/pull any longer, and won't settle for something casual... he understood... we did a few messages back and forth, including a lovely one from him where he was basically owning everything, saying he agrees I deserve more, and that he'd tried hard, but made mistakes, and it was time for him to deal with everything in therapy... wishing me the best, saying he hopes we can smile each other if we bump in to each other etc.

I probably should have left it at that, but I followed up a few days later with a few long, emotional messages, rounding it all up, saying how I didn't want to lose complete contact, would like for us to touch base some time in the future, what I appreciated about him etc.. he didn't reply - I sent more (anxiously) - he sent a bit of an irritated message back, just telling me that he's fine and just trying to enjoy his holidays... at which point I got upset, because he came back into my life promising this happy ever after story, and pressuring me, pushing me and getting annoyed with me that I would even doubt him... then he pulls back again, and I'm left dealing with a spinning head, a broken heart, not sleeping or eating... and he's irritated with me because he's busy trying to enjoy his holiday. I responded with a firm and strong message to show I was upset about the way he'd responded to my basically baring my heart... it wasn't super harsh but he will know I'm upset.

I can't help but feel him trying to get back with me is less about his feelings for me and more about him desperately not wanting to be alone... which makes me feel angry, because it's my heart and life that's been affected here.

I agree - time is needed before any type of friendship could ever happen, if at all. I need to heal. It just seems like a huge mountain to walk up at the moment. It's a real battle to not contact him and try and smooth over our final interaction. I really struggle with this. I always re-contact to smooth things over when I've spoken in a really strong, harsh way... but I'm trying to sit in the pain of it all and not do that this time...

My heart goes out to you as I can relate to your situation so much!

In my case, I used to get tired of the push and pull dynamic. I felt anxious all the time, unsure if I should text first or not, and hated that I felt that way. So I would ask for time apart. Then, a week or two later, I would convince myself I had `resolved` how I felt, and engage with him again. Rinse and repeat. I would similarly hear from him, when I said I wanted time apart, that he understood, and hoped we might cross paths in a grocery store again a few years down the line. Within the same conversation my feelings would be all over the place, I would say I needed space, tell him he was hurting me, not be able to hang up. It was all so confusing.

All that to say, I think something similar was happening in both of our cases : we were looking for something from our exes that they were unable to provide. What do you think made you follow up? What is it that you were looking for from him?

When it feels overwhelming, bring what you are thinking about back to you. Yes, we can guess at your ex`s motivations, his feelings, his intentions. Yet, it can be like torture, because you`ll never get definite answers. So, what we can do is take focus away from that, gain understanding of our own behaviours and strive for doing better with what things we can control.

Be patient and kind with yourself. Getting therapy will help, and is a great step in the direction of growth. So is posting here. Reach out any time.

Thank you so much Tina - I just had a quick look at your post history and can relate to so much that you've written - it's funny to see it written out in someone else's words and experience, but recognise the same dynamics. It sounds like you have progressed through your journey with a lot of curiosity and awareness and come to some great lessons.

The push/pull thing has definitely triggered a huge amount of anxiety for me - I can feel my own abandonment wounds really flaring, which I think is a somewhat normal response to someone you love repeatedly telling you that they can't be with you... but then coming back and promising the world – the very words (maybe the ONLY words) that ease the very real pain of that abandonment.

When I first got together with him several years ago, I didn't have the same response when his abandonment wounds would flare out of nowhere - he would react to tiny things that he perceived was me getting ready to reject him... like if I had to work late... to begin with I thought, well that's vastly unhealthy, I can't be in a relationship with that... imagine how much worse it will get later down the track. He would also do a little bit of light stalking - sitting in his car in places he knew I'd be driving past...

Back then I'd never seen anything like it, and it felt so weird and foreign to me that I was almost watching it with a sense of wonder... I actually finished the relationship myself a few months in because I knew it was going to end up in an unhealthy place. So I do feel some and amazement that despite this knowing, I continued to engage with it for the next 2.5 years, even after he monkey-branched to someone else and posted a picture of them on socials a few hours after he called to break up with me... I wanted to believe he was capable of delivering the things he was promising.

Similar to you, I got to the point more recently where I thought that no matter what, I would always be there for him, whether we were together or not. I wanted to support him and be there for him regardless.... but now I'm seeing it just doesn't work like that. And that unconditional love and support - it's potentially something I need to give to him from a distance, and without involvement in his life.

A friend said to me today when I mentioned how disconnected I feel at the moment, and it's not a feeling I remember feeling in my life... she mused that the reason was because I had to switch 'my knowing' off in order to stay in relationship with my ex, because I knew all along it wasn't right. And I do think she's onto something there. It's like I've muted my inner voice, which is why I'm not doing so well with boundaries or other situations in my life as well.

So it seems my task is clear for the coming weeks and months - to bring back the knowing, and heal my relationship to myself...

This community was a big part of my journey, and I have no doubt it can similarly play a role in yours. It is freeing to be amongst people who `get it`.


It will always serve you to be honest about what you feel, and accept it without judgement. Giving `love from a distance` is a notion that has a lot of meaning, because it allows you to stay true to who you are, without forcing a situation that doesn`t serve you.


You seem to have really good insight, and capacity for introspection. These ingredients will allow you to flourish, whatever the future holds.

When a lot is going on, I like to pick one thing to focus on and actively try to improve. In turn, other aspects of my life get better as well. For example, if I decide getting a good sleep is my priority for this week, then I feel better rested, move around more to make myself tired, which in turn makes me eat better...what is something you`d like to focus on, if anything?

This community is really great. Lots of people who get it and don't throw judgement.

Same as so many people here, I oscillate between the two states of being glad it's over and knowing it wasn't right and wasn't healthy, and then justifying and hoping and dreaming about what was and what could be again. Giving love from a distance is definitely the way it needs to be for now, and potentially forever. Yet I know it's going to be a pretty long battle before my body and brain both accept this fact.

I have often thought that if I cancelled out all of the expressions of love and promises made (usually over text) then what would be left of our relationship? And what I see is someone with one foot in, one foot out, not following through with promises, cancelled trips and weekend plans, special occasions marred by big emotional outbursts, me struggling through my own life stuff alone, yet giving out a whole lot of support.

I have so many special memories and times tucked away with my ex where I did feel deliriously happy, but I think the happiness was based on the fact that he had made all of these promises, said all of these amazing things, and made me think that I was his person... and I was basking in that glow. But if I accepted that the promises were just a way of keeping me from abandoning him, and to just pay attention to the actions, not much of that was love in the real sense of the word. Some of it was for sure, but the vast majority of my delirious happiness with him was based on what he said to me and what he promised. Sigh. So yeah, it feels heavy.

Tina, you asked what I'd like to focus on to change... another good question. I actually have to move home in the next week and I don't have a place to go to yet. This is causing some anxiety and has done for some time, so I think my full focus needs to go on that rather than my ex, and although it's a difficult situation, I feel like the universe is going to look after me, and it's going to play out the way it's meant to, and on the other side of it is a new beginning, a fresh start, and the focus of that is on me and my children, which I feel is a really positive thing. So the sideways answer to your question is that I am going to build a safe, protected, comfortable little nest for myself and keep the focus entirely on me for the next two weeks. I will not make contact with my ex at all and put that energy into me instead.

The story we tell ourselves is important, and something we have control over. Sort of a glass half empty or glass half full thing. It can change, too.

I don`t know your ex. His expressions of love may very well have been manipulative. On the other hand, to a certain extent, maybe he did mean them. Maybe all those promises were real on his part, but because of his own limitations, emotional maturity, baggage, capacities, all things that have nothing to do with you, he was unable to deliver. What if it wasn`t a case of him caring too little, but on the contrary, caring too much? So much so that unrealistic expectations were involved, and it was `easier` to bail than to wait, from his limited point of view, to be abandoned by the person who could hurt him the most. I don`t know if this perspective makes sense for you and your story, but it did help me.


This is a lovely goal, seekingtheway! Building a comfortable space for yourself can be so healing. Now is a time to build yourself up, let yourself feel all your emotions, and understand that you are not disempowered. How have your children been?

Yes, your perspective does make complete sense - and I do agree with you.

I don't think the empty promises were made maliciously. Even though the outcome was to manipulate me and make me stay, and for him to feel like he had a strong hold on me, I don't think he meant to do that. I do think he genuinely wanted all those things with me - the future/family/adventure/love/intimacy. But I think he knows deep down he doesn't have the skills to deliver those things to me and there's a lot of shame for him in terms of the mistakes and the hurt that he creates. And the fear was big for him that I would just leave. He said on occasion that his love for me scared him, he was terrified he would give his heart and I'd just leave, especially with all of 'his stuff'.

I know that the woman he monkey branched over to from me ended up accusing him of being an emotional abuser, a narcissist and all kinds of things... I can tell he made all the promises of commitment to her too - and then left 7 months later. So there's a pattern here.

I think he did commit properly to his ex-wife, but she was the one who left him, which deeply, deeply hurt him and I don't think he's yet healed from that rejection. He seems hung up on her, not in a romantic way, but it's like he can't get into her head and understand why she rejected him, why she blows hot and cold on him... it keeps him stuck and chasing for her approval and attention even now.

But interestingly, I had some stories come to me that had allegedly come from his ex-wife, (via two of her closest friends who I was also friends with before I got back together with my ex). They were telling me I dodged a bullet, and that his ex said he was a terrible partner, didn't show up for her at all, and that he totally changed into a bit of a monster right after they got married, and took her to a place where she basically had a breakdown. They said she couldn't stand him, had no respect for him, and that she felt very sorry for me when we got together because she thought I seemed nice and she knew he would just hurt me, and she was extremely embarrassed about his behaviour with women. But then having said that, she has never told him any of this herself, and keeps a perfectly friendly, serene face with him, plus a very tight hold on what he gets up to... it feels like they are still entrenched in their codependency.

I've heard other stories about other women too - there's been a lot of them in the last four years since his separation - some of the stories were not good at all and made me feel very worried - but I kept justifying staying because of the side of him that is so aware and conscious, so good, so gentle and kind...  I really, really struggle to put this down. He is well known in my community for the good he does and the gentle person he is, and this messes with my head... because when I dial into just this side of him, I just want to go back and stay with him forever. Even now I have to fight against that impulse.

Not sure why I'm writing all this now - it just feels like it needs to come out. Trying to process it all.

And thank you for asking about my children - they're doing okay. I protected them from the breakup, didn't make it into a big deal, they've barely mentioned him. But it's been a rough few years for us with my son, and we all need to heal. My son actually shows a crazy amount of borderline traits, but he's only 10, so it's too soon to know... but he's neuro-divergent and has some extreme behavioural issues - I have to exercise unconditional love in the face of some really, really challenging and abusive behaviours. I think that's why I ended extending the same approach to my ex - the journey was aligned and I just felt like if I could stay strong and keep loving them both, stay regulated etc, it would all be okay. But turns out I'm not strong enough to do that, and I realise what a foolish quest that was to begin with.

Lamentably, it is rarely the exception.

There’s only one instance in which I’d ever think of venturing down that road again: If the deeds > words.

Otherwise, it’s like reading the same novel and expecting a different ending.

Totally agree - words need to match the actions. But this is hard to figure out without opening your heart and giving someone a chance isn't it... I knew I needed to see the action behind all the words, and it just wasn't there... and he knew he was being tested I think, which I don't think he wouldn't have liked the feeling of too much.

If only I could fade that feeling of 'but maybe he could have gotten there if we'd just persevered and hung in there...' I see that feeling across so many other people's stories and objectively I see it's what keeps people stuck in really unhealthy dynamics... yet those thoughts remain even now. That there's a chance he'll turn it around in therapy and come back... aaghhh.

No contact hasn't been going very well...

He keeps making contact... I respond for a little while, but then I basically try and shut it all down gently and tell him I'd like to possibly be friends in the future, but it's time I got on with my life... but keep it very respectful and kind and caring...

He doesn't reply...

But then he makes contact 2 days later, acting as though none of those msgs had been sent... I respond... sometimes the conversation looks like he's really regretting and still thinking about the possibility of 'us', him wanting to spend time together, even being intimate again... but never really saying what he wants... until I shut it all down again... and the cycle goes on.

Last time it happened I told him I needed to create distance now and push on with my life, he said he understood, actually acknowledged what I was saying.

I recognise my part, I could not respond, I could block... I just haven't felt strong enough... I have just sold and moved out of my home (my family home that I owned with my ex-H of 16 years), which was insanely stressful, and we don't yet have a new home to move into. There has been a lot of emotional layers going on with this process for me. And my children haven't been coping with the instability of the situation either, so it's been really rocky. But as soon as I moved out a few days ago, I felt insane sadness, but also felt a moment of strength, and felt like it's time to shut this situation down so that I can embrace this new start and create a life that I actually want. It feels like a significant turning point.

I have been spending a lot of time at my ex-H's house with the kids because the temporary place I rented is not great for kids I've realised... but I was reminded what it was like to be in a family environment where two adults worked together and there is stability and security... that's how it always was with my ex... I have 0 romantic feelings for him, and would never reconcile as a partner, but I'm very grateful he's been here for me in this time... and being around his home the last little while highlighted just how difficult it often was having my recent ex in the home - the eggshell situation was so often a thing... but never was for my ex-H. I want that again for the future... security, safety, consistency...

I hope I can find my strength to hold the boundary with my ex...

The compulsion fades with time.

You just have to brazen it out until it dissipates.

I’m hard upon the eighth post-relationship month.

Intellectually, my mind was firmly made up on June 1 when I ended the relationship. My intellect outpaced my emotions by five or six months, however.

I’m dispassionate about anything associated with our relationship today, which is a tremendous blessing.

There are two courses potentially open to you:

If you remain firm in your purpose, and avoid reconnecting, your life will be far better. A year from now you will thank yourself.

You’re already intimately familiar with the outcomes of the other course.

Feels like I need to work with my ego so that I can stop the thought I am worth the effort for him to stay and work with his patterns… when I know logically that is not the reason he doesn’t stay. But there’s something in that thought that keeps me in the the dynamic… perhaps I’m trying to prove to myself that I’m worth the effort, I’m worth something…

Thank you for spelling that out so logically for me… this is what I need at this time… straight logic…

He’ll be back at some point, maybe just to see what I’m up to and make sure I haven’t moved on… or maybe for a full attempt to return, I’m not sure. But yes history does tell me how it will work out.

I really don’t want to want him any longer, it’s good to know it faded for you.

Because of what he does for work and in the community, it’s only a matter of time before he gets other opportunities to explore, plus he told me that the woman he monkeybranched to ages ago got in touch the other day… clearly fishing and testing the water with him…. Which pushed me to cut things off because I can’t deal with that part of our history repeating itself again. No way

Actually... just had a hunch and had a quick check on a dating app, and sure enough, there he is. Wish I was strong enough to just block and delete and move on, but instead I sent a hurt message - we were intimate only a few days ago, and he's been messaging how he cares and has regrets, but actually he's out there looking for another relationship. so the truth finally comes out and the cycle completes...

I’m here to confirm that the process of your emotions aligning with your intellect takes from four to six months.

In my darkest moments during my recovery, I’d recollect some of the sub-optimal moments with my former partner to keep myself from wavering.

If she was continuously awful, it would have streamlined the ultimate decision-making process, but she wasn’t. Fundamentally, she was very tender-hearted, and very kind.

She just had a problem that she couldn’t apprehend.

Trying to reconcile the two extremes of their temperaments can keep you rooted into place for many years.

However, once you become firmly embedded, it skews your perception. The demands of the relationship requires you to recalibrate what you formerly considered to be normal behaviour until all of the old standards are discarded.

Then you are trapped. Then you learn to accept the unacceptable.

As I mentioned, the journey back to being yourself again is from four to six months in length.

It’s not easy, but it’s far preferable to the alternative.

I feel what you're saying is right - the first time we were together and he left me for someone else, it took me around that time to find myself again and not feel like I wanted him any more and to feel less pain. When he reappeared after 8 months asking to meet up, I saw straight through it and sent him packing... but then changed my mind because I was tired of there being animosity and I just wanted peace... I definitely didn't want to get back together with him, but then I started listening to his stories and promises once again and I was hooked back in...

But the point is, yes, that timeframe was about right last time. I feel weary at the thought of getting through it. I'm so weary and exhausted of the anxiety and pain that has come from this relationship altogether.

I appreciate the advice about the skewed perspective - again, this is exactly what I need to hear right now... my sense of self and my perception of behaviour and relationships has truly been affected in this process...

Just feels like I'm sitting at the bottom of a mountain after running a marathon...

Hey how you feel is totally valid and not only that, but there are many here who are in the same boat or were in the same boat. So in a twisted sense...you are not alone.

However, another perspective. Now you know you have the grit and perseverance to make it through life. Reflect on that for a moment...many people forget to do this. Yes the feelings are hard, but you have them for a reason...to teach you so you can grow, heal, and do better moving forward.

Most importantly, do not lose hope or faith in yourself. Think of the experience like athletes competing in team sports. Athletes in team sports fight hard to win at all costs so they are not left with the hard feelings. Why? Because they suck. But you know what? They do not quit and give up. They keep playing hoping to win a championship. For those that win they play even more desperately moving forward because they understand the feelings and they would rather have the vindication of winning as opposed to the harsh pit of despair of losing.

How does this apply to you? Simple...you suffered bitter defeat. What are you going to do about it to not have to feel the way you do right now? What steps will you take to improve yourself to achieve that winning feeling?

Do not be so hard on yourself...you are tougher than you think you are and what you give yourself credit for.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thanks for the re-frame Sinister - yes it's true that it's soon time to be looking ahead and figuring out how I can live the life I really want...

I am probably stronger than I feel, it's a day at a time at the moment.

I talked today to a counsellor for the first time about him, and she straight away said that the patterns are emotionally abusive, and encouraged me to create some protected around me now, so I called a few friends to be a support.

I think one positive step I need to take is to realise fully that I don't choose this relationship... rather than feeling I didn't have a choice and he left me... to remember that I was holding boundaries every time he came back, to test him, and he failed at each one of them. He'd sometimes try and frame it like he was walking away, but he knew I was in a space where I was deeply questioning it/him and was holding him at arm's length. My body knew this relationship wasn't good for me... so even though I feel very foggy and confused from the whole dynamic, and like my relationship antenna has been seriously bent out of place for now - my body still knows the truth and will let me know. I did not feel safe in this relationship at all, and that's enough to make the decision to get out.

A final flurry of contact with my exwBPD has sent me into an emotional tailspin...

I'm trying to sit back and see how my own anxiety has really added fuel to this fire. I seems I really cannot sit comfortably knowing there is animosity between us and I always reach out to soothe the tension after I set a boundary and show my upset to him... I messaged him quite a long, intense message after I found out he was on dating apps at the same time as being intimate with me (which he never responded to), and I felt pretty awful sitting in that discomfort... but then I bumped into him in the community... he blanked me and I blanked him, it was so uncomfortable... so uncomfortable that I ended up messaging him and telling him that I wouldn't ignore him in the future as that's not the type of person I wanted to be... that I was grateful for our whole journey and held a lot of love and compassion for him, but I needed to stay out of contact generally... he responded warmly and kindly... that felt better...

I said I wished he'd just told me outright that we were completely done rather than me finding out on the apps... he said he thought he had been very clear it was over, but was just trying to exit 'gently', which just felt like a big ol' gaslight to me seeing as we've been sleeping together and he's begged me to go back into relationship with him, but then changing his mind multiple times...

I thought it was time to set the record straight, which I've tried to do multiple, multiple times (and then gone back on my word whenever he has shown up trying to start it up again)... but this time I told him that perhaps we weren't the right fit for each other after all because I needed a relationship where the person knew for sure they wanted to be with me, and that I was ready to walk away... I've never been this upfront about it... I left it on a voice message, and was very warm and gentle about it, but was basically saying that I was in agreeance with him that it's over and it's time for me to live my life, and I just hoped and wanted so much for us to end everything respectfully, because our connection was so special and important to me.

It snowballed... I don't think his ego liked ME saying that I wanted out in such a forward way... so then he sent a long message basically re-writing the whole history of our relationship, contradicting everything he's said about me and us in the last year, and more gaslighting in terms of why I'm not right for him... and saying things like he needs someone who will laugh at his mistakes instead of needing to talk about them... his whole tone had changed and I could feel the bitterness and anger...

I would like to say I stayed within myself and held my ground...I tried... I pushed back on what felt like projection... but I got so anxious and confused, my head a total wreck... this whole experience just feels so overwhelming to me... the ever-changing rhetoric, the push and pull, the instability, never knowing where I stand, trying so hard to be there for him all the time, constantly walking on eggshells, not being treated even close to what I deserve...

I sent him some more messages, insistent for him to hear me and see me, and acknowledge the love I'd given him so freely and deeply... desperate for him to validate my truth and my experience.

He sent a final message this morning, and he did give me some validation, stopped trying to change the storyline and admitted I'd done everything I could to show him he was enough, that he was loved and wanted and it was his own issues that meant it couldn't work and that he was sorry for any pain. He then said agreed we shouldn't have any more contact with each other... but the tone was cold and hard... it felt like he knew he had to tick that box to get me to be quiet and go away, and it feels so so final this time. For real. And I'm relieved it's finally done, but in so much pain, I can barely move, can barely look after my kids. One thing is for sure, he might have been the messed up one, but now I am too.

I still love him, can't hate him, but can't have him in my life... and I feel that terrible sense of knowing that I won't hear from him again...

I think I knew on some level that I needed to 'seal the deal' and say something that would not keep the door open anymore, which I think I've always done... I've always hinted that if things changed for him and he figured out how to get on top of his stuff, we could maybe try again... but this time I said I was done... and he responded in a similar way... so aside from his projecting and gaslighting, this is the ending I wanted.

He did say that he felt we were from two different worlds, and I was this person who he envied in terms of my ways of being, but that he would never be like me... that his emotional growth is far behind mine... and this is the truth of it... a truth I just didn't want to face because there's nothing that can change it.

Hello seekingtheway! It sounds like you`ve been through a lot recently. My heart goes out to you.

Right now, your priority is taking care of yourself. It`s okay to acknowledge your love for him, but coming to a place where your feelings, thoughts, and perspectives are front and center will allow for more stability within yourself. It is safe to be you.

Hi seekingtheway,

I am currently going through the same. Since mid December I have been trapped in an endless cycle of pull - push, each one lasting a few days.

We cut off contact last Friday and yesterday I received an email that saying that she has been thinking a lot about me, that she is confused, scared and in need of my help.

I have been tempted to answer (not gonna lie that I feel guilty and want to help her) but I realized she is either manipulating me to get a response or even if she is actually feeling that way, today in the afternoon I can easily go back to being the most vile human being on the planet.

I am still trying to figure out why I keep coming back to this cycle. Might be a bit of ego, I still care about her, fear of being lonely again perhaps. But it is incredible difficult

Hi Collaguazo,

There's going to be a lot of work in order for me to pick apart the reasons I stay/stayed in a dynamic like that, it's a lot to do with a real decrease in my confidence and self-worth in the last few years, some co-dependency, some of it is a physical type addiction to the highs and lows now I think... fear of abandonment. There's a lot in there for me, and I need to get to therapy to unpick it all and get strong before I feel I can totally let go of it emotionally.

The push/pull thing is damaging... and it only continues because we let it... encourage it sometimes in my scenario. I am just as liable for the dynamic as my ex, which is the part that frustrates me the most. Because I'm very aware of what that means about my mental state at the moment, and how I am involving myself in a dance that will continue to affect my mental health.

It's important to stay compassionate to yourself as you move through it though, I think... try and put understanding and awareness around your actions, and love the parts of yourself that are scared and hurt... I just keep trusting that the process will complete at some point and I'll be stronger as a result. But it's very painful along the way.

Was good to come back to this post and read it back... having just gone through yet another cycle with my ex. My head is somewhat hung in shame to even type that out.

He came back with a new perspective, and medication for his ADHD - and new-found confidence in his ability to communicate and be in a relationship... talks about him going into therapy, seeing it all so clearly, taking responsibility for all the things, wanting to create an equal partnership, wanting to do the work 'together', wanting to support me in my life, feeling like he's always been overwhelmed and anxious because of ADHD burnout, and that's why he couldn't handle relationship dynamics... he said all the things, spent weeks persuading me of his new standing, new confidence...

I was scared and I told him so... said I needed a lot of reassurance... he said he of course understood... but he's in for the long-haul this time... I eventually agreed to be his partner again...  the 'new him' lasted two days, and then it was back to the 'old him'... it ended two weeks later, with drama and gaslighting and manipulation that sent me into near madness... really truly messed with my head... I found out he was also on the dating apps during the process of begging for me back... and again the day after we broke up.

I tried my normal pattern of trying to smooth the ending, so there isn't anger and resentment between us... but then I read the 'Why Does He Do That' book by Lundy Bancroft... I was deeply traumatised reading this book, and seeing my relationship spelled out on the pages... finally admitting the behaviours I'd kept to myself that were abusive and controlling... I finally allowed myself to admit that sure he's got trauma and pain, but his behaviours are still a choice, and he's most likely aware of them, though he pretends not to be.

I needed to go into this period of anger in order to move on... feeling empathy and understanding is natural for me, and that will be where I return one day when I think of him, but he has taken no responsibility for what he's put me through... the control that he was extending over me sexually and financially were something I hadn't wanted to admit to myself let alone anyone else, and has been important for me to admit, the emotional manipulation and gaslighting and stonewalling was all about control... all those actions are his alone, and seeing the mechanisms behind them made me angry.

I stayed when I shouldn't have done - and that's mine and something I need to face and still understand. But I have spoken to a number of domestic abuse counsellors and I'm finding someone forgiveness for myself finally in this cycle - that I kept staying and couldn't seem to extricate myself... these decisions didn't serve me at all and I'm responsible for that... but I didn't deserve to be lied to, manipulated, betrayed and treated so badly...

I have been living with my ex husband for the last month while I recover... I think this is it though guys, I'm finally ready to break the cycle and move on.

I even stood up to him this week, finally found my voice and told him he'd treated me terribly - and that if he wanted peace between us (which he really does because he's really scared of people in the community thinking badly of him), then he would need to own some of his behaviours towards me. He won't. So there we are.

I did the same thing. She promised things had changed her insecurities had gone she'd had help and was on the right medication. After a 8 month split we got back together we have a child together which made it hard to full disengage fully. She was so charming and convincing. We spent another 2 years together. But things just got worse than the 1st time. There is no pill that will cure this poor souls. They will lie and say anything sometimes to get there way make you feel so guilty. Entice you back with sex. You must not feel bad to walk away it's for both of yourselves greater good. And the kindest thing to do. I've separated again and it's turned into a nightmare. False police aligations  stalking my friends family you have to make everyone aware and block this person totally out of your life if you are going to leave and move away to get any peace. And hope they move on quickly.

Thank you for the reply - I appreciate it.

This time I have blocked him. It's taken a long time for me to be ready to do that. I didn't ever want to do that to be honest. I really hoped for an amicable ending, but that was never going to be possible with me calling him out on his behaviour... I've never told him outright that I think he treated me really badly, and of course he didn't take to that kindly.

The last few weeks of processing this whole thing have been hellish... I haven't felt good for a long time, but going back in for another cycle really took me to breaking point. I know it's my own fault. It's written all over this post that I knew it was the wrong thing to do. And yet I still did it. I did it four times in four months. And each time I lost a bit more of my sanity, confidence, sense of worth, my grip on reality...

And now I don't know how to connect with myself or my joy or peace... I just feel really dark a lot of the time. Suspended in this place of knowing I brought a lot of this on myself, and then knowing that I still didn't deserve the way he treated me. Nobody deserves it. And then sometimes feeling crazy, like maybe he didn't treat me that badly and it's actually me who is messed up... the wonky thinking is just awful.

I know it's done this time because he's starting posting nasty songs about me online, and he's had plenty of time to find someone else now. And because I've now blocked him, unless he's creative about getting hold of me (which I doubt) then I won't see any attempts to contact me beyond here.

Hi seekingtheway, it sounds like you are still living in the relationship.  Try to reinvent yourself outside of the relationship, you know you don’t want to be in that relationship anymore. 

If he is posting nasty songs then he is obviously still thinking about you.  But now cracks are beginning to show in his ego.  For the male, it’s a huge blow to the ego to be rejected by a woman, especially a former lover.  My ego got trampled by my pwBPD, so I have tried to create a persona that is egotistical, bombastic, etc, because I will need to be that way if I ever confront her again.  Every time before, I said I would not go back, but she came walking in.  Adios tough ego, hello small little ego who just won the chase but lost the battle.  He’s going to keep chasing you because his ego will not accept defeat that easily.  It is our instinct to win the chase. 

From the female perspective, perhaps you feel the need to make him feel better because that is your motherly instinct.  For a long time, I knew there was something missing from my pwBPD that I really needed.  Then I realized it was tenderness.  You are a good person so you want to be kind and tender to him, but you have to go against your instinct and keep him away.  Makes you feel empty, but that feeling will not last forever. He will chase you because his ego makes him, you will accept him because your instinct wants to be tender and give him love.  Your thoughts are pure, his are not, trust me.

And there is one of the traps, if he catches you again, he’s going to fillet you and eat you for lunch.  All to pacify his ego.  With him, it’s just going to be haha, I win again.

You sound like a very nice person, he does not, keep up the good work, and it is hard work, no doubt about that.

And speaking of songs, here’s some lyrics.  I suggest listening to the song sometime.

“I was hoping for a chance to cross you out,
 but then you came walking in
 and it hit me like I ain’t been hit before
 one of us never changed”
Pretty Little Lie, Blackberry Smoke

Thank you for your reply Iquanablood - this time I've taken proper measures to cut any contact. I've blocked him in all the ways. I will bump into him in the community, but I have been here before with him and I just won't talk to him. I feel confident I can do that.

I've also gotten really honest with myself and I've shared that honesty with my friends. They all know now some of the darker parts of this dynamic we had... financial and sexual control, the lies, the other women, the mind games - I have let them be there for me while I'm feeling bad. Some have admitted they wanted to run an intervention to get me away from him... but instead they had to wait. In the past I would always defend him to them, but I wouldn't be able to do that again, so to go back to him would mean I'd lose all my friends with the shame. I made sure of it this time.

The problem I've had all along is my stubborn refusal to let go of my belief of him as a good person. Someone I connected with deeply and shared real love with. That he didn't mean to do all the things he did. That he is steps away from healing these difficult parts of himself, as he kept saying he was... there have been moments more recently where I looked at all the lies and betrayal and manipulation and felt like none of the good was real, and it was all just a 'false self' he created.

But I realise that I am splitting him in this process... that he's either all good or all bad... just like he does to me. Whereas the truth is that all these things exist in him concurrently. He's dark and light. He uses good and bad behaviour to protect the wounded child underneath... but I still got to experience the real him, and I did truly love the real him. But I can never be with him again. I am not sure that he did ever really love me... not in the true sense of the word. I think he just loved what I gave him and how I made him feel... but that was only true of the times I was giving. It all seemed to disappear the moment he had no use for those things I gave.

You’re not splitting him.  Maybe he is just a lousy person.  Sometimes I think these people get to hide behind their mental illness.  It sounds like he is aware of the fact that he is hurting you, he’s doing it on purpose, mental illness or not.  That makes him a lousy person.

Keep burning the bridges, then he can’t burn you anymore.  You said you lived in a beach town like I do, right?  So burn a few more bridges and hey, you got Smoke On the Water!  Hahaha.  Sorry, can’t help it…

Haha, yep, you're right... it's funny because he spoke to me in lyrics and music too. Many beautiful sentiments he sent to me this way.. but some of his more recent dedications to me are 'Your ex-lover is dead' by Stars, 'Dumb Things' by Paul Kelly. and 'Reasons are all I have left' by Art of Fighting.

Yes, all these are meant to hurt me. And then he'll deny it and say he didn't understand them to be hurtful seeing as lyrics are subjective and not 'everything' is about me after all.

He would also play songs in the background depending his mood with me. Some really nasty, and some I knew that were special to him and other women. It was true head PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm)ery. Music is a great love of mine too, and I'm pissed off that it has been used as a way to try and hurt me.

Well, actions always speak louder than words.  Sounds like his actions are speaking louder than the words in the songs.  Listen to Idiot Wind by Dylan sometime, he kind of takes the side of both of the protagonists in the song, it’s an interesting song in this circumstance.

I’m on day 45 but it’s been hard, hard, hard.  Yesterday I felt like I was in some kind of horror movie.  I felt like my little angel and my little devil were fighting it out pretty good in my head.  I thought maybe I had been isolating myself too much.  I walked to the beach at 6:00 and there she was.  My little angel won, I did not approach her and I don’t know if she saw me or not.  But I think maybe she did.

I want this to end and I want to be happy again.  I really do.  Have a nice night.

My ex reached out a couple of days ago... I think he must have come out of his split. I hadn't blocked him sufficiently enough on all the platforms. And I responded... he ended up calling me, which is the first time we've spoken since we split 6 weeks ago.

To begin with it was tense and difficult... but by the end of the exchange, something weird happened... he gave up arguing... stopped blaming me for what happened in our relationship, he took responsibility and he apologised... this is something he did when we were together many times, but when he split at the end, he changed the storyline so none of it was his fault anymore. Suddenly he's back to knowing he's got issues and he's sorry I got caught up in that.

He talked about how anxious he feels in relationships... how he just wants to find that person he can feel comfortable with. I told him I wanted him to be happy... told him it's his journey now... it's nothing to do with me any more... go find that person... I just didn't want him to keep treating me so badly.. said I didn't deserve it. He agreed and apologised again. We left it in a good place.

I put the phone down and I felt like I could breathe for the first time in 6 weeks. Validation, respect... didn't think I was going to get it, but I did. I cried with relief.

But then 10 minutes later, he messages, he wants to meet up and have a coffee. Sigh. Starts messaging about how things could have been done differently. Sigh. I respond very vaguely. I don't agree to meet up. He messages first thing in the morning again and throughout the day... but then he has a session with his psych... he cools after that, and he's just happy we've found some peace, he says he's happy I'm feeling lighter and it feels like he's drawing contact to a close.

When I was in the conversation with him, it didn't feel like he was attempting to recycle in any way... it felt genuine. But maybe my lack of blame or resistance to the breakup triggered something for him. Nostalgia. Or him knowing I'm happy to walk away perhaps triggers his fear of abandonment. In any event, I think his session with his psych has put him back in touch with reality for the time being.

It's my wish that we can just leave it there. In a good place. With respect between us. And he goes on his journey and I go on mine. But I doubt that's the last I hear from him...

I really need to prepare myself for ways to respond if he reaches out again so I can gently shut it down in a way to keeps the respect intact (which is the way I really want it to stay if possible), but not engage. He's out there looking for other women... most likely multiple women (I'm surmising this because he said he's not ready for a relationship on the phone)... and that fact alone just makes me feel sick that he would even consider that there's a chance we could ever be together again.

I think the thing that was confirmed in the moment he started messaging after we wrapped up the closure call... nothing is stable... ever. Things flip in the blink of an eye. And that's the only thing that can be relied on.

A way I`ve been trying to reframe my own thinking, in this regard, is seeing the other person reaching out as a possibility, and reminding myself that I am prepared for any outcome.

You`re seeing what he can offer you, realistically. It`s fair to say that is not what you want. It sounds like you have a good boundary here. Now you can focus on yourself and what is that you do want.

Thanks Tina - yes, I do see what he's offering quite realistically.

It amazes me that I can know this very certainly, the logic is all there, but my emotions feel far behind the eight-ball. I am still very up and down and can get very stuck in my head, remembering the good times, and going down the road of 'if only he' and 'maybe if I'...

Today a post flashed up on Facebook from his business and he has posted something about his ex-girlfriend's business on there... a big supportive post promoting an event they are holding. I couldn't believe it... because he monkey branched to her and then came back to me saying she was a dangerous, abusive narcissist, and he has always said that he'd never have anything to do with her again. So when I saw the post today... it leaves me with a few ways to interpret it. He has either reconnected with her and is trying to get back into her good books... or perhaps into the good books of the community she belongs to, seeing as he had a lot of people who wanted nothing to do with him after they broke up.... or he's trying to get to me because he knows it would trigger me that he's back in contact with her. Maybe it's both. I guess it doesn't matter. But my brain still wants to figure it out. I am trying to keep reminding myself that his brain doesn't work the way mine does, that logic is not usually part of the mix when it comes to a lot of his actions.

I think my brain is so used to him coming back eventually... in some capacity... that it's hard for me to stop imagining the ways that he's going to do it next. And the logical part of my brain doesn't want that. But the emotional part of my brain does, and still craves him.

One thing I've been struggling with, having read so so so many stories about BPD now, and getting a bit stuck in the Reddit rabbit hole... how many people talk about the fact the love wasn't real, and that the relationship is not rooted in love but is based on their needs only.. and that people with BPD change as soon as you're not around... this is causing a lot of sadness for me. Because it's another layer of grief I don't want to have to face - that the love wasn't real... in my sense of the word. It makes me distrust my intuition and therefore my sense of safety in the world... I don't know what to trust at the moment.

I finally started therapy - it was four long months of being on the waitlist, and I was literally gagging at the bit to get in there and get some of this experience out...

I feel like my psychologist is going to be a great fit for me - she also does EMDR and comes highly recommended (hence the wait), so I'm excited to dig in with her.

The first session, she said something about us getting to the point where I finally accept my ex's limitations and drop any further hope. And that comment really did hit me hard, because i realised in that moment that I have been and still am holding hope - even against my logical mind. It seems my head and heart aren't yet in the same place.

My ex reappeared again last week and came in hot for a day... wanted me to sleep with him... sending me links of properties in the countryside (because that was always our dream). I said no... it was hard and hurt to say no... which he could see clearly... I showed my upset and confusion... told him that the chaotic back and forth has caused me a lot of anxiety... and then when he turned cold and distant again, that hurt even more, and messed with my head for a while.

My psych was understanding of the fact I've been hopeless at sticking to no contact. And that's what we'll work on in sessions - building that strength and confidence. I've also deleted all of his messages and his number... so I can't contact him first. But I don't feel okay about blocking him, and actually I think this just adds to the drama of it all. I'm accepting it's baby steps.

Wish I knew what was needed to truly drop all hope.

So exciting that you finally got in to the therapist.

"The first session, she said something about us getting to the point where I finally accept my ex's limitations and drop any further hope. And that comment really did hit me hard, because i realised in that moment that I have been and still am holding hope - even against my logical mind. It seems my head and heart aren't yet in the same place."

This is so where I'm at and have even written myself- my head and my heart are in such different places! My head understands the disrespect and lying and name-calling etc. is bad and abusive, my heart feels for her and wants to show her love. It feels almost impossible to drop the hope.

Good for you for setting those boundaries and withstanding the 'storm' of the return/reconnection. You said 'no', even though it hurt to do so. And now, look at his response to your no....turning cold and, probably, angry. Isn't that the pattern in these relationships? No - to any little thing, or big thing, said with love and respect for the relationship- brings about anger and very often attacks. That was my experience exactly.....and here you show it in action.

A healthy person would hear your 'no' and recognize that he's put you through so much, recognize that the push and pull is so hurtful, recognize that you deserve consistency and respect. But he got angry and pulled away then. As if this was all about him. As it usually is in these relationships.

That's one of the central themes I've come to understand in my relationship. A no was always treated like a failure on my part, or an attack. It was always met with real anger, trying to get me to feel bad for saying no, telling me how I'm failing the relationship somehow or how I'm a failure at being a businessman, a partner, a friend. Even when there were really clear and sound reasons for my no, even when it was said with love and respect.

I'm excited for you to be able to move forward, and it sounds like you found a great therapist to work with.

I`ll join jaded7 in recognizing your good work!

Glad to hear that you found a therapist that feels like the right fit for you. I`m sorry that you had to wait so long to see her! I think that it`s normal to still hold on to hope, despite what the logical part of your brain is telling you. It`s part of being human for emotions to lead at times, and it`s not a bad thing that you still have an open heart. Don`t be hard on yourself, you`re taking the steps to reach a point of balance where you not only drop this particular hope, and replace it with hope for a better future for yourself.

It makes total sense that your ex`s actions hurt and confused you. I think you should be proud of asserting yourself by saying how you felt. His actions truly have, as jaded7 pointed out, more to do with him than they do with you. If you take a step back, you can see all the indications of his limited capacity to understand the consequences of his actions. That isn`t a stable basis to build a relationship on.

No contact is a tool amongst many that can help with detaching. Going stone cold on someone you cared very much about might not be the approach that works for you (as it does for others), and that`s perfectly okay. I can relate to you on this, and I`m sure others can as well. I personally recognize that it would distress me more than it would help me.  And that`s the key point; you have to focus on what works for you.  That empathy and caring that would make it so hard for you to go no contact are in their own way also your own unique strengths. They can also be hurtful, as you`ve experienced, when it comes to protecting your own heart. It sounds like you`re taking the steps towards letting go not out of malice or anger, but out of kindness to yourself. You deserve happiness too.

Thanks so much for your thoughts guys - I appreciate it so much.

Yes, his actions have massively confused and hurt me. He has come in hot offering the world and begging forgiveness... then changed his mind and gaslighting me into thinking he wasn't actually offering that... so so SO many times now. Coming back and forth like the wind. Obviously I've stopped letting him come in again, but even allowing the opportunity for him to even be suggestive about it gets into my head and throws me completely off balance. So I do need to get to the point where there's no contact. It's just been baby steps to get there.

Our pattern has always been that I feel incredibly uncomfortable about leaving things in an unresolved/unpeaceful place and I make contact with him to soothe, resolve and tie it all up nicely. It seems my nervous system needs that. Especially because we live in the same community and see each other around. But once I've done that, he comes back in again... sometimes it takes him minutes, sometimes days/weeks and in the past many months and a relationship for him in between. But he always comes back. And he goes hard with the love-bombing.

I told him the other week about how anxious I was feeling about him reappearing and then disappearing again... he went through a range of reactions to that - first he tried to gaslight me into thinking he hadn't 'reappeared again'... then he was really nice about it and said he understood, and then in the same conversation thought we could maybe hang out and have coffee sometimes... and then he tried to tease me about my anxiety... which I went along with, but when I teased him back about being indecisive, he got nasty... and he sent me a meme about being a 'stage five clinger'. And when I told him I would be upset if that's what he really thought of me... he got angry... shut the conversation down.

I tried to explain to him what effect the back and forth has had on me... how it's actually taken me to a dark place and made me anxious and insecure in ways I didn't used to be. He didn't respond to that. It's obviously easier to label me an anxious, clingy, psycho ex... than to acknowledge that his actions have upset and damaged me.. as they would upset and damage anyone.

When I talked to my psych about it, I was able to see that I just keep going to him with how I feel and hoping he will suddenly get it or acknowledge it... and that's because 1 or 2 times out of 10 he WILL acknowledge it and be kind. But the other times he just ignores me or gaslights me, which makes me even more anxious. It's like a fruit machine. And that's the intermittent reinforcement that keeps me hooked into the game.

Over time I have turned from being a high-value partner who he didn't feel he deserved and had to work at to keep in his life, to a low-value partner who he can pick up and drop whenever he wants. Neither of those positions are healthy. So while I want to keep compassion and love for him, it's important to state that I really don't like the way he has treated me, and I do want to catch my heart up with my head... really hoping therapy will work, but I'm also reading articles that suggest interrupting thoughts about him with other things, and re-reading the truth of the relationship and how bad it was for me... to start re-wiring my brain.

This touches upon the crux of the matter.

BPD cannot exist in a world without dichotomy, and we cannot occupy that same space with them without injury.

By definition, BPD-in its dichotomous universe-doesn’t invite resolution, and whatever consolation we seek has to be self-prescribed.

“Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble, and the sculpture.”

I can intellectually accommodate the nuances of BPD, but emotionally resolving the behaviour(s) is still something that I live with daily.

It would be invaluable if you could share your thoughts as you progress through therapy, and I wish you every success.

So, so true Augustine, thank you.

BPD behaviour, at least that of my ex, is literally just that... dichotomous. And it is so hard to resolve in your head. Because my brain doesn't work that way.

As I work towards more security in myself and my thinking, I feel confident I'll see it much clearer and feel a stronger resolve to step completely away from the madness and feel okay about there being some unresolved things between us. But I think the work then becomes dealing with the pain I feel from buying into the dream that he sold... and dissolving any type of hope that he could ever follow through with any of those promises.

As my psych said, everyone has hope and the ability to heal to some degree. But I'm the least likely person he's going to change for now - because he tried and it failed, multiple times... so I need to give up hope that even if we tried again, it would be any different. He's already laid down deep tracks of disrespect, betrayal and lies with me... so it needs to be a new person, someone he doesn't want to risk losing... coming back to me just keeps him stuck in his patterns... and it does look like he's trying to reconnect with his ex before me (the dangerous, abusive narcissist he monkey branched to from me and then back to me)... so it's clear he's not ready to face any of it yet.

Will definitely keep you updated as therapy progresses.

Am actually struggling with really, really intense anxiety the last few days - I think I have pinpointed it as coming from the fact that I think my ex is about to re-connect with his ex before me...

He left me for her nearly two years ago, there had been no fighting, although he had been withdrawn for a few weeks, but nonetheless, he totally blindsided me... and then posted (publically) a picture of himself and this woman on socials four hours after we broke up. I couldn't understand why he did that, didn't think that anyone would do something that cruel - but a few months later, we had a text conversation where I told him I was still very confused by out breakup. He said he was too. He suggested we meet for a coffee. But then he did it again... an hour after our conversation, he posted (again, publically, so I could see) about the two of them, but this time there was no mistake, they were deep in a serious relationship.

At this point I blocked him and didn't look back, but the pain was intense. I didn't reach out to him or say anything, I just dealt with it all by myself.

Fast forward 6 months and it was all over for them. He messaged me out the blue to apologise for hurting me... at first I wasn't interested. But after a month of thinking about it, I said I forgave him and wished him the best. That opened the door for him to come in with the love-bombing and stories of what had happened...

He said that he had been coerced by this woman, that he had been abused by her, she was a narcissist... that she'd manipulated him to leave his son (because she lives a 10-hour drive away, so he was away for a lot of the time he was with her), and many stories of crazy, chaotic, controlling behaviour, which ended in a very traumatic relationship for him. He refused to even say her name... the name he gave to her, which he widely used in his family and friends and to me was 'red flag'. He said he wasn't in his right mind, and had to apologise to a lot of people for leaving his home, his son, his business, and me. He said that she was potentially dangerous... but not to worry because he would protect me from her if needs be. He said this experience was what he needed to finally be ready to see what he needed and wanted from his life, and obviously that was ME! I took him back.

He told me that a few months back that she messaged him to test the waters, and also she got her son to message him and say that he missed him. Which makes me wonder if actually he was right about her being manipulative... I can't think of a single healthy person who would get their child involved to try and tug at the emotions of an ex partner.

Anyway, I have been watching him throw out little carrots to her on social media quite recently... just small little signs that not many other people would recognise, but I do. She's incredibly beautiful, and similar to him, her business does a lot of good in the community. She's putting on an event in the area we live in this weekend coming... my ex promoted it on his social media... which in my mind is a clear and open sign that he wants to reconnect with her. And now I see that they follow each other once again on socials. They've obviously been talking.

My anxiety is going wild because... if he goes back to her, it means a few things. Firstly, it potentially means that the story he used to bring me back after treating me so, so badly was completely false, and means that I was duped into going back to him. (although there's potential that it was true in his perspective but he's so unstable that he's going to go back there anyway).

And/or... it also means that if they go back to each other now, it's going to happen in the next few days at this event... and I think in my head it means that it's closing the door on he and I forever, because I could NEVER go back again after that. And although I knew already that I need to never go back, this is another step towards accepting that there truly is NO hope at all. And there's a lot of grief sitting behind that realisation I think. I'm scared to tap into it.

Just coming back in to share an update as I'm progressing through therapy.

I had a few really great weeks where I was feeling strong and free of anxiety... the future started to take shape again and I felt really hopeful. I started sharing some detailed stories about my ex around then, but I realised that I was going to spend all of my sessions telling her stories about him (becuase there are so, so many), and I don't want to waste all of my sessions talking about him, so instead I condensed all of the patterns I'd noticed into a list, which I read out to her. The list got pretty long. And I got incredibly shaky and overwhelmed by re-living all of it... I spent 3-4 days in bed afterwards... I actually went to a really dark place, which felt scary and awful. Only just starting to settle now but still in fight or flight basically all of the time.

My psychologist said that of course she can't diagnose, but from the patterns I called out, her opinion is that he has BPD, and potentially other things too. But she said definitely cluster B going on.

We didn't go much into the list - I struggled to even look at her... I just wanted to get it all out as quickly and efficiently as possible... but it's done, and I feel like crap still, but it felt like an important step. I also made a list of ways this relationship has impacted me. And a list of wounds that have either been created or deepened in this relationship... so that's where we agreed we will focus from here... on me, not him... my wounds, my pain, my healing...

I've also been working on a list of all the unhealthy ways I showed up in that relationship. I'm having to think harder about this list, but I think it's going to be really useful. So many lists, but I'm invested in healing and moving on. I really want to let this man go.

It was good to have the validation from a very experienced professional that BPD is the most likely thing going on, but it's also triggered a lot of feelings - compassion, sadness, regret, anger...

I unfortunaltey saw my ex while I was in a bad state of mind not long after the session... I have made a big song and dance about getting us to a peaceful place, and vowed I'd be normal and breezy with him when I saw him... but on that day I ignored him, I couldn't do it... I was not in a good place and I just froze... so of course that upset him and has triggered even bigger anxiety for me to then deal with (as I've mentioned in my posts above, I always contact him to soothe when things aren't okay between us)... so i reverted to my old pattern and contacted him to smooth and apologise and say I wanted for us to be able to say hello.

His response was cool. I think he's found someone else - well, I know he found another dozen someone else's right after we broke up and he was still push/pulling me... but I suspect he's found someone he's going to go exclusive with... so it's possible there won't be any more push/pull now for a while. He will be busy. It stings a bit, but I see this is a window of time for me to heal and finally find some strength... to heal my need for things to be peaceful between us... to begin to move on myself.

Actually, I will add... my ex's response to me saying I want us to be able to say hello with comfort was not only cool, but manipulative - bringing his son into it, and saying he wants us to be friendly in front of his son... which makes no sense to me because I'm not close to his son...

but he also said that enough time has passed for us to now be in a place where we say hello to each other - kind of like, come on, you're allowed some time to be upset, but that's enough, it's well in the past and we're over it now.

The reality is this kind of thing takes a looooong time to heal. And he really messed with my head by coming in for a red hot recycle only a few weeks ago. Of course I'm still upset and trying to heal. Of course I'm going to have bad days.

And although I didn't fight back to this comment because I want to project strength... I'm not okay yet - I'm not over it. It helps to be able to say that here. Thanks everyone.

Hi seekingtheway, thank you for sharing an update :) . It sounds like you`re putting a lot of focused effort into your healing. I`m sorry to hear that you`ve been in a dark place. You`ve inspired me to give list-making a try. You`re indeed correct in saying that this time where your ex is giving you space is a window of opportunity for you to heal without any confusing interruptions. It is okay not to be okay. It`s important to distinguish your reality from his in times like this. And keep in mind that what he says, how he feels, whatever he`s doing are all going to be skewed by a disordered lense. His approach seems to be to brush over his underlying issues. In the long term, this approach falls apart. You on the other hand are putting in the work to put yourself back together, piece by piece, and you will become whole again, stronger and more resilient. It is the more uncomfortable path, but so worth it. Be patient and kind with yourself.

Thanks so much Tina. I appreciate that a lot.

I agree with you - this journey requires a lot of patience, and it will definitely help to not have any confusing distractions with it.

I went down a real rabbit hole yesterday reading old stories on here, and methods to heal - I read so many stories that are just like mine. It really helps. I do think I need to be quite disciplined on certain things moving forward - like not checking his socials at all. And having a script of how I'll interact when I bump into him in the community.

I also want to invest in my own purpose and happiness. I finally found a new home and have moved in - I really love it here... (which after 5 months of bunking in other people's homes is pure bliss) and I have a new schedule with my ex-H with our children which means I am now getting time to myself for the first time in a very long time, and means I can put time into a creative project I've been really wanting/threatening to do for years. It feels like some things are falling into place.

I was defiinitely in a dark place the week of that counselling session, and I have a feeling there will be other regressions along the way... but I do also feel the shift of the gears that will allow me to move forwards.

I read something interesting yesterday, along the lines of being in a relationship with a Cluster B is along the lines of being in a cult - a Cult of One. There is a need for you to switch off your normal/rational thinking in order for you to stay and function in this dynamic. So I've been finding it interesting to read about the suggestions of how to heal from this. There is a need to 'de-program'. Some interesting content out there from Rachel Bernstein and Steven Hassan about that.

Perhaps it's no small coincidence that I myself was raised in a cult-like religion. A lot of my anxiety/codepdendency issues stem from that time and from when I broke away from it.

You seem to have drawn solid conclusions. Not checking his socials will indeed decrease anxious triggers. Feel free to post your thoughts on your script for when you run into him here, if it`s helpful to you, we can work on it together. And that goes for exploring how your childhood may have set the stage for anxiety and codependency as well. All great stuff. I will go on to remind you that if you do check his socials again, if you find it hard to write the script, if it feels confronting to face things from your past - it`s normal, it`s okay, and you`re not alone. Healing isn`t linear.

Congratulations on the new home, what wonderful news  :wee: !

Something that helped me in my journey, that reminds me of what you`re writing, is a shift in mindset. Mistakes, difficulties are going to be present in life. That is how things go. I realized that I lived my life with so many fears: what do people think of me, what mistakes have I made, what mistakes will I make, what if I didn`t even realize I did something wrong, what if I said the wrong thing, has their opinion changed of me...that`s a lot of mental load! What`s more is that these elements are out of my control, other than showing up and doing my best. So, my conclusion was to nurture and appreciate that what I can control is how I see things. When mistakes are made, when challenges arise, I know that I have the strength, skills and support to surmount them. The rest isn`t up to me, and what a relief!

Keep going, you`ve got this!

Thanks so much for the encouragement Tina.

I wish the path were linear, but it's really not is it?!

He uses social media as a way to get messages to his ex's (and current partner)... so it really is best I don't look. It's not going to be anything positive. But there's also part of me that wants to be prepared for what's next... he lives a street away from me so I'm living with a little bit of fear around who his next partner is, and how that is going to interrupt my peace.

I'd like to aim for indifference. And I'm going to have to fake that until I make it. It's not something I'm good at - my face and energy usually says it all. But I'd like some kind of standard, friendly response when I see him that I can just fall on - whether he's on his own or with someone, icnluding a new partner.

Maybe just a smile and a wave and, a cheery – Hey, how are you going? How's your son? Great! I've got to head off, but good to see you!

I'm really swinging between two opposing states of wanting peace and being able to be friendly with him when I see him (because not having peace makes me really anxious, but if I'm being truly honest, I wonder if there's a part of me that thinks I'll lose him completely if there isn't peace?? Still hoping onto little shreds of hope against my better judgement), and then I swing to anger, resentment, hurt and not wanting anything to do with him at all, not even to acknowledge him at all.

This pendulum swing inside of me makes me think this is what it must be like to have BPD but about all kinds of things. I know my pendulum swing will eventually slow and stop somewhere though. I can't wait for that!

Just came back to look at this post, because it turns out I was right... he has gotten back with his ex. I saw them today. It was a massive shock... and I'm trying to process it.

If I look at all the stories on this board, it doesn't seem out of place. It all makes perfect sense that he would go back to his (allegedly abusive narcissistic) ex... which means he's ping-ponged between me then her - then back to me and then back to her... but when I look at it through a non-disordered lens, it's totally bananas, and not behaviour that I can get my head around.

He literally spent most of the year he was with me trying to put right all that he destroyed when he was with her - including relationship with his ex-wife, his son, me, his friends, his business... and now he's back with her. And it just reinforces the fact that everything is momentary in his world, his words can't be and shouldn't be trusted... his relationship with me was built on lies and deceit... and at this stage, it just feels like I was in love with a mirage. I can't grasp what was real any more. I kept trying to hold onto what I felt was his goodness... but I can't trust that any more.

Was feeling absolutely terrible a few hours and cried my eyes out for ages... shock and sadness... but now it's shifting a bit and i'm feeling some relief... what an absolute mess... it still hurts and probably will for some time, but I am feeling grateful to be free of it.

I am however a bit worried about seeing them in my community - as I did today. She lives far away but I imagine she will be visiting regularly now. I live 100 metres from his place. Our kids go to the same school. I don't think she will take too kindly to me - I think I could be a target. And if my ex was telling truth about her temper, I should be worried. Any advice of how to handle it?

Hey seekingtheway, I`m really sorry to hear of these developments that have you feeling not only sad, but also worried given the unpredictability of his new (or rather old) partner. I can`t speak much to how to handle the latter as I haven`t dealt with this myself, but based on what I`ve read in the forum it is important to stear as clear from their drama and implications as much as possible if they do try to reel you in. Again, I`m sorry that you find yourself  in this situation. Make sure to share with us should anything of the sort happen and I`m sure we can help you navigate the situation.

I can relate to other aspects of your situation. Your ex returning to a partner who was allegedly abusive and narcissistic mirrors in a way my ex, who is seeking to return to his partner who was avoidant, invalidating of his feelings, cold (according to him). It does make sense logically. When you have such trouble navigating your own emotions, feel inferior deep down, and you have no concrete idea of who you are, getting mixed up in drama feels right, which is why they`d seek partners who bring that out in them. On the other hand, being with someone who does offer you support and love makes you mistrustful, and even repelled from that person. It`s counterintuitive, as are many facets of these relationships.

Focus on yourself as much as possible, and if you feel sad and grief then allow the emotions to come. Dig into that sense of relief, as it is a glimpse into what is on the other side of this mess. You are indeed free. No one can take away your heart, and you have a good one.

Hi all, wanted to give an update... as therapy progresses, I was hoping the trajectory in terms of recovery is going north, and I suppose in lots of way it is, but in other ways I'm struggling with it all just as much as I was.

I haven't been in contact with my ex for a few months now, which is the longest period for several years. It's allowing me the space to really dive into therapy. As much as possible, we are no longer focusing on him and 'what he did', and we are now focusing on me and how I got there. It's deep work and it's confronting. I feel like I've just walked into the skeleton closet, and it's dark, so my eyes are trying to get accustomed to what I'm seeing in there...

My memory of my childhood is very patchy. And I often feel confused and foggy when I try and think about what it was like. I don't feel like I have a very good grip on the psychology of my father in particular, though I knew that my mother has a lot of co-dependent traits. But I always just thought of my parents as really good people, with their faults for sure... but good, kind people. So when my psychologist suggested last week that actually my father showed a lot of narcissistic traits, it took me by surprise.

There are other players in my family too. Potentially disordered. As we are figuring out, everyone is lower on the spectrum of disordered behaviour, with lots of wonderful, kind qualities in there too (just like my ex!). I won't get into all the players, but basically she is suggesting that I have been around a lot of disordered behaviour, and I have had a lifetime of invalidation and dismissal.

And the role I learned in the family? The words she used were 'horse whisperer'. I learned how to read people, understand them, have empathy for them, be the peacekeeper, forgive them... keep things on track... because I had to. And that's the role I have played with my ex, too. And there's nothing wrong with using these skills and traits in healthy relationships... but these qualities can be used in the wrong way with the wrong people... to keep them around.

I won't go on more because actually all of this information is a lot for me to take in, and I'm feeling very fragile and sore about this new revelation about my father in particular. It's bringing up memories, and old feelings... there's a deep sense of just not ever having people close to me (aside from some friends), who accepted me and loved me for who I am. The ones who are closest to me... hurt me the most. I have chosen partners who reinforce this story. And i allow my children and some friends to reinforce this story. I'm really ready to change the story... but still feeling like I've got a lot of work to do to build up strength and resilience to make all of the necessary changes. I know that I did a lot of this work years ago during therapy from a previous brush with Cluster B in my ex-husband's family. So I'm hoping that ground work will help in the overall journey.

Hi seekingtheway, thank you for updating us on your journey. A big  :hug: to you as you progress. A kind reminder that it is normal and expected for there to be ups and downs along the way. The destination of peace and true understanding of yourself is one that can be paved towards during a lifetime. It`s a marathon, not a race.

I can relate to many aspects that you bring up, especially when it comes to how childhood experiences have predisposed you to take on a certain role in relationships. As you have implied, it isn`t wrong to be a forgiving and understanding person who is sensitive to how other people feel. I`m glad that you recognize that these are indeed qualities, aspects about yourself that you don`t need to change other than making sure you focus your energies on the right, deserving people.

First, I`m sorry. I`m sorry that you have been hurt by people close to you, and that you have had people throughout your life who have dismissed and invalidated you when they should have been helping you build yourself up and protected you. Second, it isn`t fair, and it isn`t your fault that they treated you this way.

You are a deeply insightful person who has contributed immensely to this community. It is clear from the way you interact with us, I really want you to recognize that. Keep at it, seekingtheway, you`re making a lot of progress and you are not alone.

Awww thanks so much Tina. These were lovely words to read and I felt a bit emotional reading them because I do feel really alone and disconnected right now... I know it will pass and better things are ahead of this 'cracking open' process. But I so appreciate the supportive words. It really does help ❤️