BPD in time for the Holidays

[chronsweet]

It's hard to imagine a holiday not ruined in my uBPDm's mind by some force outside of herself.  I am 39 and have been surviving my uBPDm for decades.  About 3 years ago, I cam across the book, Surviving a Borderline Mother, and I cried (wait sobbed) throughout the entire time I read it.  The unfortunate thing for myself was that I shelved the knowledge I had gained and went back to trying to 'make my mom happy'.  As I approach 40 and have a small child (almost 5) to care for myself, I have started to rethink the relationship with her completely.

The most recent 'triggered event' occurred just a couple days ago.  My uBPDm cares for (reluctantly) my brother's physically handicapped child (my niece).  My niece has her wits about her and is very smart (as an aside).  My brother has 6 children.  So, buying gifts for all 6 kids each year is cumbersome on me.  I just don't have the money I'd like to spend on them, so it ends up they each get $25 or there abouts in gifts.  I ordered my niece that my uBPDm cares for some items on the internet.  They have been coming in sporadically.  I talked to my mom about getting a gift card for her so that my niece could get a bike helmet without realizing what I'd already ordered.  So, on Thursday, I let my uBPDm know that I would not be able to get the gift card because I had already bought her several things.  My uBPDm then proceeded to throw an adult witch tantrum.  Everything I bought was stupid.  She was going to throw it all away.  And further, all the items she had bought for my son (her 4 year old grandson) she was going to return because to hell with me means to hell with him too.  (Excuse my language).

It was at that point that I let her know that I wouldn't be hosting Christmas dinner this year.  Dinner would have consisted of my son's dad, myself, my son, my uBPDm, my niece and my step-dad.  I feel like I don't want to sit through another dinner where I cannot stand the company (mainly my uBPDm).  She comes over and complains about everything.  You should have done that this way or that way.  Why does this taste like this.  This pie would have been better.  I mean seriously something is ALWAYS wrong with something. 

The gift card is my fault of course.  She let me know through a text that she sent through my step-dad's phone posing as 'him'.  Obviously it's her, because my step-dad is calm and reasonable.

My question is how do I move beyond this without feeling some type of guilt?  Because obviously I feel some level of guilt for saying that I want to enjoy my Christmas without her.  I actually want to enjoy my life without her.  Her negative presence has affected me on so many levels that I couldn't go into it on a post about 'Christmas'.  People think I am this strong, independent person, but inside I feel unsure of everything.

[Harri]

Hi there and welcome!  Your situation with your mother sounds quite difficult and frustrating to deal with and I am sorry for that.  I

My question is how do I move beyond this without feeling some type of guilt?  Because obviously I feel some level of guilt for saying that I want to enjoy my Christmas without her.  I actually want to enjoy my life without her.  Her negative presence has affected me on so many levels that I couldn't go into it on a post about 'Christmas'.  People think I am this strong, independent person, but inside I feel unsure of everything.

You get to the point of no guilt as you remind yourself that you need to put yourself first and your mother is a disordered individual who is incapable of allowing your to be your own self.  Of course you feel guilty... .she is your mother and you have most likely been raised to make your mother happy.  It is going to take time to learn new ways to interact with her and to put yourself first without thinking it is wrong or selfish. 

The fact that you told her you will not be hosting Christmas dinner is, I think, the very best thing you could have done at this point so well done!  Why subject yourself to her company when she is abusive?  Good for you for saying no.  Understanding that the way she criticizes you is a direct reflection of how she feels about herself will help you move beyond the guilt.  Remind yourself of that because when she is in this state, she is not even seeing you.  It is all her stuff and has very little if anything to do with you.  Remembering that and truly accepting that takes time though.  It can also be painful to realize just how much projection she has been doing.  So again, I think you did a great job of taking care of yourself and your son this time around.   

As for wanting to enjoy your life without her, that too is, I think, perfectly natural given the way she treats you and speaks to you.  I will even say i think it is a good and healthy way for you to feel!  Who wants to be around toxic and abusive people?

You have time to detach further, speak up more and more and set boundaries.  If that works for you, perhaps limited contact will be possible.  Some people have no contact.  Give it some time, read and post here more and you can gradually decide how you want to proceed.  Remember too that nothing is set in stone and you can change your mind.  Chances are that as you change the way you interact with her, she will most likely react the same way she did just recently so prepare yourself for that.  She may lash out even more.  Expect it.  I am sure you can predict how she will respond so have a plan and practice what to say (out loud even) and do.

I am unsure of how much reading you have done here and in the book you mentioned so if the above is stuff you already know and understand, please forgive me.

I can relate very well when you say that people think you are this strong independent person but you feel unsure on the inside.  I am still working on that and one of the things that helps me is to look back on all I have done while feeling that way.  Perhaps we are stronger and more independent that we feel and simultaneously we need to reach out for help too.  Feeling overwhelmed and confused (or whatever) and needing some help does not mean we are weak or incapable. 

Sorry for the rambles here.  I am glad you joined us.

[chronsweet]

Harry - thanks for your well thought out reply.  I appreciate it. 

you have most likely been raised to make your mother happy

That is the understatement of my life.  Almost all communication with my mom revolves around keeping her happy even if it's at a subconscious level.  When she is mad at someone else even, she projects that anger onto me.  I have asked her to not talk about the same [negative] subject over and over.  But the talking isn't a droaning on, it is a raging on where my brain has to soak up and absorb the amplification of the negative words she literally spews.  When I was a kid and my mom began with this kind of raging lunacy, it would scare the kids visiting me half to death.  Their eyes would bulge out of their head and many of them would head out to the garage and you could tell they didn't know what to do.  This is when I began to realize that maybe my mom was a little different than most.  I remember being able to have friends over, but I also remember her not liking it very much.  She would say 20 word long cussing sentences.  Even her own friends would be bugged eyed.  The point is that I have pretty much lived my whole life trying to avoid provoking this type of ranting behavior because it always ends badly for me.  I can't even recall where she has ever come forward to apologize for any of these 'time-outs' she puts me on when I stand my ground.  It is always me who opens up communication. 

She has in-so-much as told me [can't remember exact words] that I am her kid [even if grown] and that I am not allowed to be my own person when it comes to her and I.  She is the mother and I am the child who is just supposed to side with her, listen to her and not provoke her.  I mean, honestly, how sick is that?  It is hard to wrap my head around the fact that she can't internalize how that would make a person, let along her own daughter feel, or think what she would feel like if someone told her that.  My step-dad has been hit upside the head, thrown out, and cussed at for days on end for the simplest, most human things.  We have a silent understanding that she can 'get crazy'.  And then at times, she can be tolerable and even enjoyable. 

I can't really see myself not talking to her forever.  But I know I have to gain control of my relationship with her on my own terms.  I am going to try to set some boundaries and let her know that when she begins yell-talking and projecting onto me, I am not going to put up with it.  I can't put up with it.  I am actually starting to become mean to her at random times even when not in these moods because I am having a hard time processing her voice.  Sometimes just the sound, makes me just on edge and anxious.  Does anyone else feel like that? 

Anyways, I appreciate you reaching out to me with kind words.   So many people, such as my baby's dad, know the pain she causes me but just don't know what to say.  It makes him anxious even if I start talking about how she behaves.  It helps to know there are people here who grew up with someone similar to me.

[Harri]

   Hi again. 

She has in-so-much as told me [can't remember exact words] that I am her kid [even if grown] and that I am not allowed to be my own person when it comes to her and I.  She is the mother and I am the child who is just supposed to side with her, listen to her and not provoke her.  I mean, honestly, how sick is that?

O.M.G. you too?  I heard the "you are my child" speech into my 40's.  She would add "I will have to answer to God about you"  (which is hugely ironic and just confirms that she thought what she did was right   )  I was her property and she had a moral and religious obligation... .blah, blah, blah.  words used to justify and defend and manipulate and belittle and abuse.   

The point is that I have pretty much lived my whole life trying to avoid provoking this type of ranting behavior because it always ends badly for me.  I can't even recall where she has ever come forward to apologize for any of these 'time-outs' she puts me on when I stand my ground.  It is always me who opens up communication.

Well, it sounds like avoidance has not been helpful in your case.  Since BPDs come in a variety of flavors, avoidance works with some, but not all.  Never worked with mine and all it did was cause me more damage.

I can't really see myself not talking to her forever.  But I know I have to gain control of my relationship with her on my own terms.  I am going to try to set some boundaries and let her know that when she begins yell-talking and projecting onto me, I am not going to put up with it.  I can't put up with it.

Good for you.     It sounds like you will not be able to avoid her getting upset, so again, be prepared.  In a weird way, if she does react strongly, even to the point of giving you the silent treatment, it is a good sign for *you* as it will mean you are breaking some of the ties. 

I am actually starting to become mean to her at random times even when not in these moods because I am having a hard time processing her voice.  Sometimes just the sound, makes me just on edge and anxious.  Does anyone else feel like that?

The sounds of my mother's voice still rings in my head sometimes and she has been dead for several years so yes, I know how that feels.  There were also several times where I would be mean to her or lash out.  Looking back on those times now, I feel badly but I try to give myself a break about it too.  It is not easy to see that side of myself, but it is there and regardless of how frustrated or provoked I felt at the time I do regret acting that way.

Lots of people do not get it.  Some seem to think dealing with a BPD mother/parent is the same as dealing with a difficult parent.  They are so not on the same level.  I never tried to explain or get others to understand.  A very few people know parts of my history and that is it.  It was never important to me that others understood it and in fact, I am mostly relieved and happy when they can't.  There is enough hurt out there.  It is also hard to see people we care about struggle so hard to come up with the right thing to say.  for me, there really isn't anything anyone can do or say they can just listen.  Having a place like this though makes a huge difference so I am very glad you found it!   

[Ziggiddy]

Hi chronsweet

It sounds as though you have really been through the wringer with your mother!

It is great that you have tried to understand her behaviour in order to make better choices in dealing with her.

And yes, you are absolutely right in setting up boundaries.

It's worthwhile keeping in mind that these boundaries will not change your mother's actions - in fact most likely she will push hard against them.

Boundaries serve to help us manage our own behaviour.

You are entitled to be treated with respect as a human being let alone a daughter.

Have you had a look at the article on setting boundaries? i will link it here in case you haven't:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

As far as feeling guilty goes, people wBPD are very good at teaching others to become responsible for them - in particular your mother has likely been teaching you since birth to look after her and her feelings at the expense of your own.

It will help you to understand that the sensation you feel that you describe as guilt is not the appropriate guilt that other people may feel when they do something that is against their conscience. Me I think of that sensation as discomfort.

We children of mothers wBPD grow up with miswired emotions.

You may like to compare how you would behave with your son with how your mother behaves with you. Would you want him to feel guilty for not being responsible for you?

If you don't want to listen to the sound of your mother's voice then why should you have to? I don't like the sound of heavy metal so i choose not to listen to it. if someone refuses to turn it off and respect my rights I go away so I don't have to listen to it. I think it is detrimental to my soul. Why would I listen to something that is detrimental to my soul?

And I completely identify with you saying you ask your mother not to talk on a particular topic and she keeps on doing it. Mine does this ALL the TIME! So incredibly disrespectful.

With that, I have made a rule with myself to get up and walk away. I have asked a million times only to be told "Ah you have a short attention span/you're too sensitive etc"

If a friend disrespected me like that, they would not remain my friend. Why should my mother?

You mentioned that you have other issues which you don't want to put in a Christmas post - I would encourage you to post about them separately.

You really are among people who 'get it' here, chronsweet.

I hope you find it supportive and useful to interact here

Ziggiddy

[chronsweet]

One thing I can't figure out is how to put my response as a quote in the context of a reply.   

I appreciate both your responses (Harri & Ziggiddi)  It's hard to read at points because I get very emotional when someone else actually confirms and recognizes my feelings.  It is really crazy how much I have learned about how I process and react with people in personal relationships over the past couple of months.  I recently became single.  I am in the process of seeing if I should work out the old relationship.  But in doing that I am realizing a lot about myself and how I become very needy emotionally and yet push people away at the same time.  I do not trust that people are not going to desert me or blow up on me.  I do not trust that people actually 'like me' or 'love me' and all those feelings come from a place that I know really exists now (my messed up mothering by a psycho).  I know we shouldn't label BPD as 'psychos' but the rage and vehemence experienced at the hands of my uBPDm is just insane.  I don't know how to rationalize how someone acts other than to label it.

I did go to my mom's house this last Sunday and tell her I did not want to fight for the holidays.  I told her I was sorry for the event in general.  She told me she can't accept that.  I again talked to her yesterday and she informed me that she talked to her lawyer and she was taking me out of her will.  For the simple act of defying her on not getting a stupid $25 gift card and for me not wanting to cook dinner because of her reaction.  I ended the conversation by saying that she was absolutely right, that I sucked and I can't do anything right and that I hope she had a Merry Christmas.  This was of course to placate her and she still was not happy with the end result.  After the conversation, I thought, well, I took the high ground (again).  During the conversation I said you know mom, you never apologize or say you're sorry for the things you say to me.  Her response was, 'yes because I'm always right'.  I laughed and said you're right.

In my head at the moment I checked out of trying.  I am not going to cripple my own sanity and ability to live happily anymore.  It is going to take me awhile to 'get happy' and live life without feeling guilty for how I interact with people in general.  But, I need to care for me.  I am not going to ostracize her or stoop to her childish games.  But, I am not apologizing anymore for being able to see things rationally for her sake.  I am not going to keep apologizing just to make peace.  I am not a designated peace keeper and I formerly resign the position.

Feels good to vent and get it out. 

[Ziggiddy]

First - the technical point - to put a quote into your reply, go to the comment section of the poster you want to quote and in the top RHS in the light green area you will see 'Quote' written there. Click on that. It will put the whole reply into the omnibox. Just edit out whatever is not the quote!

To check to see if it's working you can use the preview function located next to the post function.

I know what you mean about getting emotional when someone understands. Quite simply coming here gave me the first ever validation I had in my life about my uBPDm. It means all that much more if you are still in contact with your mum - I am too. They work hard to keep you looking after their emotional needs - almost like they are OUR children not the other way around!

As far as her response to your apology it is actually very very common and pretty much exactly what my mother does. When I 'acted up' by setting a very low and and reasonable boundary she later informed me she had changed her will and taken me out of it and altered my kids' inheritance.

I approach it this way - she feels out of control of me and so is using money to get back in charge. I thought honestly about her house full of clutter and old mouldy food in her fridge and decided it really wasn't much loss. The self esteem i gained from feeling as though I grew up a little bit was well worth whatever material thing she was pulling out.

Also as far as your apologising to her and taking full responsibility - I am sure you wanted a peaceful outcome - just to get along for the holidays. Unfortunately pwBPD quite often engage in a power struggle and for her it seems it's all about being in a superior position. She can keep you 'in your place' by not accepting your apology.

Please let me reassure you it's not about you chronsweet. Nor even your son or neice. it's a function of fear of abandonment.

I would recommend you read about fear obligation and guilt.

I also found it extremely useful to understand the way a BPD mother affects her children.

I'll put both those links here.

Meanwhile, i am sorry you have broken up with someone lately - it's more grief and emotion to add to an already painful situation.

Do let us know what you make of the articles and let us know what eventuates.

Oh and this? This made me smile:

  I need to care for me.  I am not going to ostracize her or stoop to her childish games.  But, I am not apologizing anymore for being able to see things rationally for her sake.  I am not going to keep apologizing just to make peace.  I am not a designated peace keeper and I formerly resign the position.   

Well done you!

Ziggiddy

PS here are the links:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61982.0

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

[Legacymaker]

She has in-so-much as told me [can't remember exact words] that I am her kid [even if grown] and that I am not allowed to be my own person when it comes to her and I.

I have hardly spoken to my mother for a year for a similar incident to yours.  She signed my Christmas card "always your mother"!  She's pulling me in, I'm still swimming the other direction!

[chronsweet]

Legacy, it's weird but before I read your reply to my post, I was reading yours.  I ended up seeing my mother on Christmas.  I feel differently about 'this' time though.  I am pulling away and distancing myself from her and it feels good.  She keeps trying to call, and I've been doing quite a bit of avoiding her.  I have been realizing over the past few months how much anxiety I get around her.  I start freaking out and get very impatient.  It's like my mind is looking for an escape route and hurrying me along to avoid a trigger.  I honestly feel sorry for her that she'll never be able to enjoy life like a normal person.  But, I now know, that I have to reclaim my own life.

It's like my blinders have been pulled off all the way and I see her for who she is and who she is not.  I'm thinking that next holiday season, I will try to get away some place with just my son and I.  Perhaps his dad too.  I spent most of the day with my son and his dad, saw my mom a limited time and when she tried pulling me into negative conversation, I avoided it.  All in all, it was a great Christmas.  My son said, "This was the best Christmas ever".   

[Legacymaker]

Chronsweet, be gentle with yourself.  You will discover the answers that work best for you.  Stay in touch with people on this board.  It took months of support on this site for me to begin to understand.  It also took a confrontation by long time friends to point out my anxiety.  I was so blinded by the "normalcy" of it all, that I was unable to even identify it as a feeling.  A friend confronted me and said that she noticed a complete personality change beginning in November and running through January.  She then pointed out that, that meant each year I give up 1/4 of my life trying to please my mother... .she then stated that every 4 years I sacrificed a full year!  That hit home for me.  No more!  The more sense I tried to make of it all, the tighter the web spun.  Letting go, meditating and finding a safe support group worked for me.  I hope they help you too.