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I haven't posted alot of heartfelt emotional turmoil lately, but in light of some things that have come out lately, I feel the need to lead the way and bear myself here, hoping to have a unique discussion.

This one is somewhat tough for me to talk about. I seem to have a problem connecting to a woman who is close enough to affect my life in any type of substantial way. Let me try to explain.

Ive been out of my disordered relationship now for 3 years next month. I have met some truly wonderful ladies in these 3 years, and have dated a few of them. Some of them live close to me, some are friends from different venues of my life and live in other places in the country. I have dated 3 ladies on a somewhat serious level, and several on a friendship level.

Here is my honest assessment of them. The further away you live, it seems the closer I will let you in to me, and the closer you are to me, geographically, the lessor chance you will have of seeing me. Its a flip-flopped sliding scale of what I think it should be.

What I am starting to believe is that this experience has affected me more than I truly realize, and accept. Because of my job, and my recreational hobby of playing music, I meet many women, whom, 16 years ago, I would have jumped at. Now, I am just as content to stay home and clip my toenails, as I am to venture out with any of them.

Case in point, I was recently broken up with by a lady, who I think is a pretty lady, and she seems to have her head on straight. We went out to a few lunches, and watched a Cowboy game together. During the game, I all but ignored her, not because I wasn't interested, but because I just wasn't "into" her. That's the problem, by all indications, and knowing myself, I should have been "into" her. She is attractive to me, but I just didn't feel comfortable, or much like myself, when around her. There was something there, a wall perhaps.

Could it be depression? Could it be a fear? Could it be that even after 3 years, that I'm not ready? Why is it that my heart desires a close bond with a special woman, but when confronted with the opportunity, I'd rather just take out the trash, and worry about what the ant crawling across the floor is really thinking. This isn't me, the me that I have known for 38 years.

I'm right there with you on this one Quick.

I seem to have little or no motivation to get out there and find that connection.  I've not really dated at all in the last 3 years, which is kinda sad...but, I'm not really sad about it.

The whole prospect of dating, is...meh...just not enticing. 

I think part of your issue may be that the further away someone may be physically/geographically, the easier it is to let them in because there is a safe distance.  Whether we have that physical distance or we are just keeping an emotional distance, it is a form of somehow protecting ourselves.

As much as some of us think we have healed alot of our wounds...we may still have some healing to do. We were HURT, very badly in alot of cases...taken by surprise by an illness that so insidiously permeated every part of our being.  The person we loved and trusted turned on us and no matter how much we tried or loved them, it just didn't matter.  That has a profound effect, to think that our love, or love itself, just doesn't matter. 

I know for me, I lost so much of myself in my relationship with DB, parts of me I'm not sure I can even get back.  So, then where do I go with that?  I keep a safe distance from even friends, I'm not willing to give of myself as much as I once was, maybe cause there is less of me to give.  I'm generally happy, have my creative stuff to keep me busy, my kids and granddaughter...but, I hold back in so many ways...  from everyone else.

So, I don't have the answers, just similar questions...but, know you're not alone in this

wow this is like old times huh...

havent been this close to you pdq for some time... lol for you new comers thats story you will have to dig for..

pdq .. im the same as you.. thats why i went away form the site.. thinking part of me was still in due to my daily reminicing( think i punished that word. skip wheres the spell checker..)

so any way like you pdq i dont know where im at...since i left the site..;i continued my reighn of terror.her in ny.. dated , dated dated dated,,

even forgot named of who i was dating... it got that bad...

i tried the realtionship thing.. couple of times..i agreed to be exclusive.. (yea right) no i did. really..but then i hear things.. like love you, or we need to go away together., or my mom wants to meet you..

i am done... they got to close ,

i bail...and move on.. to the next..and the next  and the next..

ive dated models, accountants, exuctives , laywers,, bartenders.., woman too young women too old.

ive earned a title manhore..at work...but its not waht i want..

i want to go home to someone everynight..,wake up next to someone...in the morning..

i want to miss some one , cause they went to work...

i got out of miserabe..

to sit in a waiting room...with a sign on me that says..i am looking for some one to love..

do get me wrong.. i still listen to guys that say tony i want to be you for a day...

and i giver them the same answer..

no you dont..

so pdq i feel ya...

and i dont know what it is...but as usual  you are me and i am you..

this is one of the reason.i stayed away...i ponder maybe i should have just kiccked her out every couple of months , then took her back..

ok that was a 2 second thougt lol lol lol

pdq... i dont know..i think deep down.. there is a piece of them left inside...and we dont know it..

love ya brother

tony

Thanks Sister Elphie, and my brother Tony. Its good to see you back Bro.

Here's the deal, I see it on the boards, and I wanted to bring it up. It affects more of us than you think. Thanks for the courage, I expect more will be chiming in soon, I hope.

This is a tough topic. Big fat       to you guys...


This is a little obvious to me only because someone from a distance is no threat to your comfort zone. There is no threat of long term commitment, there is no threat of even your Friday night.  There is safety in that, and that’s what we often want in our life is to feel safe.  Something that you rarely felt in the relationship that ended three years ago.

Healing time is essential.  When we lose faith, when we lose trust in love.. in ourselves and our ability to chose who we allow in our secret gardens.. it takes time to gain that back. The same way a child whose innocence is taken can take a lifetime to recover and learn to trust again.  You were young, PDQ, when you embarked on this relationship that lasted most of your adult life. It’s all you’ve ever known, you probably don’t even remember what it’s like to travel on a two way street with a woman.  No wonder you were out of sorts on a date around someone who had their head on straight. It’s not what you’re used to.. there was little familiarity for you. I think that you weren’t comfortable is a good thing.  :)

You’ve written about cravings and possibly sabotaging yourself before.  Are you so afraid of doom that you sabotage the lovely lady who could occupy your every football game? I still see you waiting for your big moment, this woman or whatever to stroll into your life and knock your socks off… but I think you fear what you want as well because losing your socks the last time didn’t work out so well.  

You also mention your 38 years and not knowing this person you’ve become.  Is there something to that too? Do you feel like you expended some of your chances at whatever it is that you think you wanted?

 DreamGirl

_________________________


I wanted to remind you of your words just yesterday cause I loved the idea behind them...

I have heard some shrinks say that it takes a year to recover for every five years you were in the relationship with the ex.  In my case, I can't expect to feel normal as far as feelings and relationships go for another five years.  I'm one year totally out.  And as odd as it is, I am really comfortable using that as a schedule.  We've got to have time to heal completely.  To circumvent that system means we bring an unhealed us into a relationship with an unsuspecting partner.  That's not really fair to them nor to us.

Mountie

Hey PDQ, and HEY TonyC wb,


My gut tells me right off the bat that this is an issue of intimacy/vulnerability you're dealing with.  You feel comfortable with the ones who are physically distant, and you are keeping emotionally distant with the ones who are more available (locale-wise).  And IMHO, this is a pretty normal place to be in the aftermath of a BPD relationship;  you got burned.  Maybe you're willing to venture into the kitchen, but you might not be so willing to take off the oven mittens.


Walls protect people.  But they also keep others out.


I don't know if it's depression.  Maybe depression is the wrong word.  You might be in denial of something.  And fear probably has a bit to do with it.  I know this feeling you are talking about... the feeling where you are not sure if or how you can move further along with emotional intimacy in a relationship.  If... depends on if this is something you want.  I think it is.  How... depends on the assumptions you have about the kind of man you are.  I don't know that part.  But I'll tell you what my hypotheses for myself were, and maybe this will help.

Coming out of my uBPD relationship, I actually did get involved with a few women WAY too early.  Heck, what was going on inside my head at the time would make me think I was BPDish -- I wasn't ready, because I wasn't done grieving over my relationship.  It took me 3 years of being single before I felt my head was screwed on right enough to try again;  not that I didn't try not being single, I just never took to a relationship before that.

One of my assumptions about myself was that my gauge for "feeling connected" to someone was off... way off.  Because before my BPDgf, I really had to feel head over heels in love with someone before I made myself vulnerable; it was like I had to wait until I couldn't help myself.  I didn't want to do that anymore.  Mainly because I didn't want to repeat that experience again and I decided I never wanted to be THAT vulnerable to another woman again.  You might decide differently here than I, and I can't tell you if you'd be right or wrong.  But for me, being that vulnerable meant triggering my co-dependent nature, and I will not drink from that cup ever again.

Problem for me at that time was, I was still meeting women that were triggering me in that way big time.  I learned to avoid them.  Which left me with women I had to make a deliberate effort to get vulnerable with, which for me was a whole lot harder than letting my emotions do the driving.  I think to some people, this hypothesis is kind of crazy.  Because it meant I gave up "chemistry" as a basis for selecting who to date.  Personally I think my chemistry is messed up.  Other people's aren't.  Maybe yours isn't.  

But here's where I think our paths might start to look similar.  My choices meant I had to pursue relationships on other bases.  I had to give up certain kinds of "connections" in favor of a new "connection" calculus.  I think you need to ask yourself, is your current means of assessing "feeling connected" a good enough gauge?  If you believe it is.  Then I would argue that perhaps you're just not ready yet to get that vulnerable with someone else.  But then if it isn't a good gauge.  You'll need to do a bit of soul searching to figure out how you're going to make these calls in the future with other women.  Because you're going to have to make that call.

Best part is, there is no wrong way of going about this, so long as you do something.  You make an assumption.  Go with that for a while and see what happens.  If it turns out it wasn't a good assumption, you make another and proceed accordingly.  Next time you let an opportunity that this go make sure it's because YOU decided it has no future; otherwise, you might just be stalling.

I just think that so long as your goal is to find a certain kind of relationship in your life, that you should make a deliberate effort, especially if this is important to you; and I'm assuming it is.  Sometimes the effort will be more than others; timing is a big part of the equation.  But you're going to figure out something new about yourself each time.  So long as you're not just hanging around with only what is familiar.


In this specific situation, you need to decide that if you want that close bond, you're going to have to pursue it.  And maybe it doesn't feel right for a while, but maybe you'll learn a bit about WHY it doesn't feel right.  It might be fear.  It might be that you're just not fully healed yet.  It might be something you hadn't thought of.  But whatever it is, there's no sense in not finding out.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes, Schwing

She can have the socks, its the boots I'm afraid of losing again.  :)

MOUNTIE! Thanks for posting, I haven't seen you in a while. Great to see you.

(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn319/snakehalo/one_way_sign.jpg)

I'm glad you bring this up DG. Ive known for some time now that my past relationship was basically a One Way Street. It didn't start out that way, but it didn't take all that long for me to give up my friends, family, influences, likes, hobbies, and dreams. Part of my own codependency issues were chasing her dreams, so as to give them to her. Don't get me wrong, I loved doing some of the things I did. We were into horses, which I loved. I got the privilege of raising two beautiful ladies, which I loved. I would'nt trade those experiences for all the gold in Fort Knox.

Part of the pre-relationship me was alot different than what I have become. I realize this is an evolutionary process, but it wasn't one that I aptly controlled, or even wanted. I stopped playing music for many years. I quit doing things that I use to love, like fishing, and just jumping in the car for a weekend getaway. I even excelled at the job I was in, eventually getting to the point of owning my own business, in a field that I really don't enjoy. It was due to the motivation of being a good provider, and doing my part to be a good man, father figure, and partner to my new found family that I had accepted.

I have known that for some time now, that my job, and my way of life, as I choose to lead it now, is all too bland for me. I'm sitting at a park bench, looking at the one way sign, waiting for traffic that isn't there to entertain me. I left the only vehicle traveling that road three years ago. Yet, here I sit. I have no motivational forces to move me. That's my problem, my motivation. I simply don't have any. I want so many things to be different, yet, I lack the energy, willpower, and fortitude to change them. Or, as to come full circle, am I scared to change them?

We crossed Schwing. Thanks for that input. Ill chew on it for a little bit and spit it back out. Good points brother.

 May I jump in here?

A happily married woman to an awesome guy whos recovered from BPD.

I struggled with the same stuff.

When we were apart, I walled myself in, content to watch a movie with my gay housemate and go out grocery shopping for fun..

then, when we reconciled without the symptoms of BPD, it got hard for me inside. I was scared. I felt so vulnerable. I felt like I wasnt wearing my skin. I pushed away and I observed myself doing so. Happily, I was in therapy and we thrashed this one around and I came out the other side.

I get it, Q...I do. I had alot of support getting thru this, yet it was so present.

Even now..today..I can feel anxious about loving my H and being happy..and being calm and healthy. Its memories, its some scar tissue and I am told that its ok..just move thru it.

Anyway, wanted to put it out there, in case this helps

((()))))

I think that most of us who were involved with BPD/NPD types needed some kind of "rush" in our relationships.. that head-over-heels, sexually hot, addictive quality.  We may also need that need-to-be-needed feeling... the combination of sex and vulnerability.  A normal, healthy relationship may simply not give us that rush; without the rush we'd rather stay home.  So.. the desire for the highs (that we may never get from someone "normal".. and the desire to avoid the lows..  Also, we may still be haunted by the misery of the relationship with the person with BPD.  I think that there is nothing wrong with not moving into a new relationship for 2,3, or even 5 years.  On the other hand, I do think that, as we get older, and the longer we live by ourselves (or with kids), the harder it gets to allow someone back into our day-to-day lives.  We do become set in our ways.   

self sabatoging behavior.  Why do people do that?  There are so many reasons. And I think we ask ourselves what is it that we haven't reconciled or come to terms with.  But we ourselves can't think of a thing.  Yet we don't allow ourselves to be happy by sabatoging. 

In my experience, a big part of hesitancy to let someone in had to do with what I thought that would entail, logistics-wise.  Same for the man I am seeing.

We Nons very often rush the process - fall wildly and passionately in love, move in, make babies, get married, whatever.  We rush in, and we give it all away.  Part of me wanted to do that again, but a bigger part of me was terrified at the thought of upheaval for my son, changes in my schedule, not having all the hot water to myself and relinquishing complete control of the thermostat... :)

But all kidding aside, the very thought of such closeness, and such a change from our "dull" routine, can be as scary as the immediate prospect of getting hurt.  It's a fear of engulfment.  It's very likely that the reason things are working so well for us is that children, our school commitments, and work make rushing in an impossibility.  If we do move to merge two households, it won't be for a couple of years at least.

At the same time, because we took the leaps of courage to be open with each other, we can enjoy the best of both worlds:  we can be committed to each other, talk daily, see each other when we can, cook for each other...whatever...but we get to ease into the prospect of changing our lives for each other.  In other words, we get to do what Nons do best - staying close, being supportive and affectionate, without doing what Nons do worst - jump out of the plane with nothing but faith (or rather, the hope) that the parachute really will deploy, when we really should have triple-checked our gear.

I keep a safe distance from even friends, I'm not willing to give of myself as much as I once was, maybe cause there is less of me to give.

elphaba, not to be presumptious, but I refuse to believe this of you, or anyone else here.  It's simply not possible.  Certainly not with all the people all three of you have helped guide out of the FOG as evidence.  This isn't the reason.  (Why isn't there an arm-folding, head-shaking icon when you really need one?  Would it be invalidating?  lol )

 Love and thanks to you all  xoxox

Oh, I love you Mousse... xoxox



Perhaps it is, therefore making it easier to hang out on the outside fringe and just not get too close.  See, those leaps of courage have burned me so many times. 

Here on the boards, there is that safe distance, plus my deep need to help those here who I know are hurting just like I once was...It hurts my heart to see anyone else going through it.  Helping others here has helped me heal so much.

As JK has said, as I get older, I seem to get more set in my ways, and it's getting harder to think of letting someone in to my day-to-day life.  I've spent so long taking care of everyone else, my ex's, my kids...giving to my job, my volunteer work, and I guess now spending a little time being better to me, enjoying my peace, exploring my creativity -

I am a deeply caring and passionate person but, it may take someone very special to find their way in/around/through the walls I've built to protect myself.  Ironically I had a conversation a few weeks ago with an old BF from HS, who said that was the one thing he remembered the most about me...my passion for love and life.  I have lost some of that "enthusiasm", still working on getting it back and I'm getting there...

But, I no longer need the "highs", and would be very happy for something that is just comfortable and drama free, it's just hard to take that chance again. 

Well the three amigos are just an interesting mix huh>> we seem to each be taking very different, yet, still the wrong approach, yet all any of us really wants is exactly the same.  To be in love, to be loved in return, to truly connect with that right person and be happy again.  isn't that what everyone wants...

I love you too, witchy-poo  xoxo

I am a deeply caring and passionate person but, it may take someone very special to find their way in/around/through the walls I've built to protect myself.

My BF and I have had the wall discussion (he was a big fan!).  But boundaries are a much better alternative, because they are permeable - they let the good things in, and they allow for simple human error/well-intentioned emotional clumsiness on the other person's part.   Because when someone oversteps them, you can speak up, and give them another chance.  And when they repeatedly overstep them, you can let them go pretty early on because you have clear evidence that they are not a well-intentioned person.  

I view boundaries as basically a set of manners that you refuse to live without.  We had a rough spot where I felt like I was being closed out, calls weren't being returned, or wasn't calling when he said he would, - you know, the "busy guy thing"...When compared to the physical and verbal violence I've dealt with, this is pretty small potatoes for boundaries.   I felt VERY high-maintenance even bringing it up...but if you think about it, it says a lot about how important you are to this person.  And if I wasn't an important part of this guy's life, I believed he needed to say so and I would be fine with it and move on.  

Now this didn't go smoothly - I started off approaching this problem calmly, but when my expectations weren't met quickly enough  , I went into drama-mode, and he did his defensive clamshell posture (Walls went RIGHT up!)...but it ultimately resulted in a relationship where I feel very safe revealing who I am and asking for what I want, and giving freely in return.  The giving really does make me happy, so it's bliss when I can feel safe doing it and it's received with love. I think that safety and acceptance helps the passion to stay when the drama leaves.

It is unfair and counter-productive to hope someone will scale your walls to get to you - you have to put yourself out there equally.  Plus, the one who overcomes your walls may just turn out to be King Kong - some guy who doesn't respect limits!  It's in your best interests to maintain a watchful eye on the boundaries, rather than letting the wall do the work.    Strong, honest boundaries will protect you early on-- before you invest --while you do that.  Ironically, all that time I spend squatting at the Stayer's board has greatly enriched my dating/relationship toolbox  :)  I highly recommend it!    

And what I said about boundaries allowing for human error:  Walls assume that people are bad...walls are self-justifying...they don't ask questions.  Because boundaries are permeable, you can examine intent a bit more critically.   My first thought was that this guy was using me, stringing me along, and that's why he was "busy", and that's where all the self-help books would say...':)ump him, Girlfriend!" .  But because I was putting myself out there, I felt the need to really ask about that.   It turned out that he was very much into me, and scared by that, and detaching was how he handled it.

But that first part, about finding someone special...I thought about that as I read all three Amigos' posts.  I wondered how easy it would be for people as special as you to find someone.  The BP experience is a transformative one.  I am a MUCH different person, with much different thought and reactions, than I was before.  You can see it in among colleagues or casual friends, -- my interpretations, my feelings about things or other people are often very different based on what I've been through.  It was hard to connect intimately with others who haven't been through something like this.   And because my guy seemed so "normal", I was only moderately interested in him at first, because I figured he would never understand me...  

...Sadly, lots of people have been abused by parents and partners and have had to rebuild...we understand each other, really, really well.  

So there is something to be said for just meeting the right person.

But you won't have a chance to recognize that person if you have walls to keep you from truly seeing them, and them from seeing you.

 Mousse

I remember that fear.  I see it now as my "fear of intimacy."  Not that I didn't want all the palatable aspects of intimacy.  I was petrified by the process of getting it.  That's why the "instant intimacy" of BPD relationships was so appealing to me.  That's why I kept selecting partners who were ultimately incapable of real intimacy but did a great job of simulating it.

I thought I knew what intimacy was and that I wanted it.  I had to realize I didn't know squat.  I think I had to take intimacy 101, and face all the scary aspects of it - the fear that I was in denial of - and learn to get comfortable with it: the potential for rejection, not taking rejection so personally, the reward and the risk, learn to willingly risk, not take rejection so personally.  I found that as soon as I got decent at dating, I no longer needed to date; courtship is funny that way.


I think in order to preserve a person's "enthusiasm" for close relationships takes practice and cultivation.  One might decide that it is not or no longer a priority; as long as one is truly honest with oneself about this I see nothing wrong with this perspective.  A trap might be to consciously put it at the bottom of the priority list when unconsciously it factors too high in the fear list;  I think I do that still... I avoid that which is MOST important to me because I am afraid things might not work out as I would hope.


Comfortable and drama free is a worthwhile goal.  :)oing something that's hard isn't bad if the reward is worth your while.  Not doing it is good too if the risk really isn't worth it.  So long as one is honest with oneself as to one's real reasons.  :)elaying something until one no longer has a choice isn't the best choice.  And personally, I think facing one's fears is the best way to get to know oneself.


The greatest thing you'll ever learn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRcn2YXaHoo)...

Then again that is coming from a very strange and enchanted boy...

It's been a while...but here goes.

I tend to get really deep inside my head these days, over analyzing everything. Part of it is how I process things since my relationship w/ the ex.

I'm in a relationship w/ a man who up until recently, was long distance to me. Since I've moved, he's about an hour away. Close enough, but far enough at the same time. We've have discussions about marriage (whew I just broke out in a cold sweat) or living together. I was never really excited about either and I didn't know why...until recently. And here's why. I don't want to share my space that closely w/ anyone, and I have to trust the inner Diva that I might never want to...and be ok w/ that. I had to be honest w/ him about how I felt, and no he didn't like it. But that's ok.

I love him, however I am for the first time in my life living MY authentic life. I'm discovering and honoring what gives me peace. This might mean losing him...but I have to be ok w/ that because if I'm not, I'm not being true to me. I don't know what the next 5, 10 or 20 years will bring, but for right now I need SPACE.

PD:  Maybe it is simpler than you think.

We have the culture of becoming lovers before we fall in love.

Perhaps your mind is changing the relational paradigm.

Maybe now you realize that the better relational paradigm is:  Fall in love before you become lovers.

This means, sex is a natural extension of love.

Hey PDQ-

Mousse actually tipped me off to your post, so I went back through to the beginning and afteer reading all of the varied responses, I have to agree with most of the posts by other members. It takes time man-and as a recovering Non man, of the same age as you, I can offer you this-

I think it's very simple WHY you are feeling like you do-and even though I was only with with BPDxw only a few years, after almost 3 yrs out, I am having similar issues, though I admittedly haven't had as much "field time" as you. BPD's knock the emotional wind out of us. You gave her everything, and she took what she wanted, and more than you offered willingly, and spanked your heart on the way out the door. It's trauma. It's trust issues. It's FEAR of the unknown, and of losing again what you worked so hard to rebuild, and are still in the process of re-discovering. Most of it I think, will improve over time...maybe much more time than you would like...but some of it is simply that you will never again be so emotionally naive, which is where some of that thrill of being REALLY in love-the tingly, gotta-be-with-her and I would throw myself in front of a train for her feeling, that in itself is not bad-but because we found it with BPD's, we now associate that feeling with pain, so it's easier for our minds and hearts to cope by turning it off. It's kind of like we have a bunch of wads of electrical tape covering the wires that turn that part of our selves on. The wires are there, but they just aren't connecting, mostly for fear they will connect us to another BPD. 

I have gone through a few stages along my recovery-some of them very lonely, and other times when felt like there was truly hope to finding a more satisfying love life. Right now I am experiencing a period of numbness of sorts. I have been dating an amazingly healthy and attractive woman in her 30's who loves me, and I love her. It's also very safe, but in it's safety it doesn't seem to turn those "in love" circuits on. We are very compatible, and have great friendship and good sex life-but it also feels hollow sometimes because we both go through alternating periods of pulling back and putting walls up. She lives about a 1/2 mile from me-but I don't think it's a proximity issue. For me, its a combination of a few things:

1) She is almost TOO healthy. I know, I know. What I mean is, she has been a great influence on me getting back to a more healthy lifestyle and positive outlook, but at the same time, sometimes I feel 'too used up" for her. I've seen too much, felt too much pain, been dragged through the mud, spent years in nightclubs carousing with musicians and smoking and drinking, and even though i'm trying to clean up my act a little, i still like to enjoy these things from time to time, as I feel its all about moderation. She, on the  other hand, is the complete opposite of BPDxw, and EVERYTHING I wished BPDxw was, but was not...doesn't drink, smoke or abuse ANYTHING. Very compassionate and gentle, and sometimes I feel like a dirtball next to her, when I know I am NOT really, but I find that there is a distance between us because of it somehow.

2) She doesn't call me every day, and rarely tells me she misses me. She gives me all of the space I need, and even needs much space for herself, working through her own divorce issues. It's almost too easy for her to NOT cross my boundaries that I wonder if she even wants me at all. I think there is something sexy about a little "neediness" and vulnerability IS sexy-because we ALL want to be desired by the OS. So it's hard for me to get really excited about spending time together sometimes when i don't get those calls at 1am begging me to come straight over and be with her. Some of that is good I think. When its absent entirely, it feels empty, like you;re going though the motions.

On the other hand, over the past couple of years I have also experienced the "blahs" about dating-and even about certain women I have been very attracted to. I will think about them, get excited to see them, then when it comes time to be together, I think, "Yea, I just REALLY want to go home by myself and read or do some work on the computer"...on a Fri or Sat night even! I also wonder how much of my own heart has been damaged so badly that I will never again get that "wow, I'm so in love" feeling. I have become too suspicious of women in genral, the process of love and the reality that most women I meet are damaged goods in some way. It's a b&tch out her when you are over 30-EVERYONE has baggage by then.

PDQ-

I hope that by rambling about my own issues I was able to help you in some way. It was therapeutic for me anyway! haha. I'm gonna watch your thread-its a great topic, depsite the way you feel my friend.

-Rcoaster

I really am humbled by all of your responses, and all of them make sense to me. Please forgive me if I say that I don't want to believe alot of the truths you guys are telling me. Part of me doesn't want to give my past relationship enough weight to carry these effects three years later, but the thinker in me cant help but realize that those effects are there, and my desire to put them in the past only serves to minimize them in my conscience mind, but they are obviously running strong behind the scenes. It is what it is, right?

Part of this process is the "new me." I see him everyday, yet still don't recognize him. I have done quite a bit of internal changing in the last three years. What once drove me, now has little motivational impact on me. The cocky confidence I once had, has been replaced with quiet reflection, and a vigorous interpretation of what may happen. My perception of myself, looking back, was of a man facing a flood, doing nothing but sand bagging. My entire existence was spent filling bag after bag with sand, and placing them in the most strategic location, trying to combat the waters that I knew were accumulating. I was focused more on trying to prevent the problem than I was in understanding the problem. My energy would have been better spent understanding it, accepting it, and dealing with it. Instead of moving my precious items of value onto higher ground, I felt confident that my preventative energies would work. Until the waters banked over my highest bag, and I watched the waters sweep away everything I once cherished. Now, those bags have a different job, they have held the waters in, keeping me wet with worry, further saturating things that weren't dampened by the initial onslaught. Now, I have to spend more energy removing these bags. One by one I lift them away, allowing the water to recede.

Ok, that was even a little deep for me.  :)

I guess it is the walls vs boundaries argument that Mousse brings up. Looking back, I should have said that if the water gets up to the stairs, I am going to save my valuables and flee the area, instead of building a higher wall of sand. Its a lesson learned the hard way. One that I don't think I will ever forget, but I pray I will have the opportunity of forgetting one day.

So, here I sit, with moisture laden walls, mud covered floors, and a yard devastated by rushing waters, not once but from the initial flood, then from me removing the bags and letting the water flow back out. This is where I stand. I can see now that I am torn with the decision, do I stay, clean up, and rebuild, or do I simply start over somewhere else. This is exactly where I am at mentally.

I have a business that has been skeletonized by the economy, a house that is in the middle of a remodel, stopped by cash flow and desire, and a man that looks at me in the mirror, wondering what is next, anticipating more destruction. I guess the burden is plainly on me, left with the decision of what to do. Do I stay and rebuild, or do I start over doing something totally different? I guess either way is an acceptable decision, but being indecisive is not helping me rid my life of the residual moisture from the flood. I guess I am the only one who can lift my head out of my palms, with my elbows resting on my knees, sitting on the mud covered porch of my life. I have sat here long enough, the question is, which direction do I go?

Thanks everyone, this has been an eye awakening discussion thus far. Please don't let it stop here.

If I read that in the first paragraph of a book, then I would buy THAT book! Seriously. Spoken with eloquence, my friend.

Sadly, it sounds like my own life. So I guess if nothing else, know that you are not the only one out there with this EXACT feeling. I used to have sort of "Super Man" complex-I could take on ANYTHING you threw at me, and would nearly always come through, especially for those I loved. Was it so bad to perceive myself that way? I'm not sure, because lately I miss that sense of confidence that things would be ok and if anyone could get it done-it was me. Now I doubt every facet of my life-my career, my location, dating relationships, my health, my own words. If you didn't know me well, you may think that I am perhaps "different somehow" but not be able to put your finger on it, but otherwise I look the same on the outside-but feel nothing like the old me-positive, determined, trustful of my own ability to complete tasks, and very well at that. I walked my talk. I walked confidently. I was not afraid of my own heart or anyone else's.

I find that each step may be big or small, but I have to keep making them. Even when your legs are too heavy-make yourself pick up that foot. Be committed to the goal-of recovering your self, the way you were committed to piling up the sand bags in your marriage.

It's a b&tch and a half bro.You sound like a creative person-have you tried filtering these feelings into music or considered writing a book?

Find something positive to filter the experience into that can rebuild your confidence in why you went through it. Just a thought...

Rcoaster, many times when I was asked how I did it, I openly, honestly, and confidently told whoever asked, "I can put myself through anything." I thought I was, no, I knew I was a superman. Everything that I endured only seasoned me to take more. This was my naive thought process.

Just like losing your mind in a fight, I was beaten up pretty bad, but because of the adrenaline, I didn't realize it. After that wore off, and the next day arrived, I was hurt pretty bad. As long as I was in it, the adrenaline kept pumping, keeping me from realizing the pain I was in. After it was done, and the drama calmed down, and the adrenaline quit flowing, DAMN, it hurt.

Was it bad? Well, yes and no. Its a survival instinct. It is designed to get you through the situation. What it isn't meant to do is keep you going through situation after situation. There are limits. We tested them to the extreme. It takes awhile to recover from a bruising that bad, obviously.

Confidence is a great thing, just like everything else, in moderation. A man knows his limits, a boy tries to find them. I was a boy, living a mans life emotionally. I have matured the hard way, as it seems to be the story of my life. But now, before I continue any type of battle, I will start looking to see if I have started testing my limits now. I still don't exactly know where they are, but I know where they aren't.   As Ron White says "I don't know how many it would have taken to whoop my ass, but I knew how many they were going to use, and thats a handy piece of information right there."

PDQ.. I just wanted to remind you of some comforting words that you offered up not all that long ago... (see below) not for any particular reason other than this post made me think of it (and really had to put forth an effort to find :) ) Sometimes I see you being pretty hard on yourself and expecting more than you're ready to put forth.  

Happiness comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes.. in a dinner with your daughter(s)... in your music .. and according to you even in a fish. Enjoy yourself, enjoy getting to know the PDQ that was forgotten for so long.

Well crack my egg and call me George. ADD is a btch, because I dont even remember writing that. Sounds just like what Im going through though doesnt it?  :)

Thank you DG for caring enough to remember and finding that. I guess Ill continue my incubation with one added phrase. The eggs stirs.

It's hard to say what is causing this for you, because only you know you. I find myself getting a little distant from people I date once the relationship starts to really go into gear. For me, as best I can determine by looking at it objectively, I start to feel just a tad suffocated. As much as I like being in a relationship and spending time with someone I care deeply for, Ialso enjoy my time to be alone and be myself -- such as participating in these boards, etc.

I find myself getting a little distant from the person, and what I think is going on is that the BPR relationship completely consumed all time to be myself, that I am so protective of that not happening again I distance myself. Probably a more healthy way of dealing with that woudl be to simply communicate with the person -- hey, I am into you and cherish the time we spend, but I also need time to myself. But instead, I subconsciously F it up by being distant and disconnected. Probably because being with a BPD for so long has re-wired me to not feel I can say "I want to be away from you".

Also for me I have a sever case of the shiny ball syndrome. I like to meet ladies, hit it off, go through the phase of starting teh relationship, and then I get bored with that ball. I don't cheat, but I think I distance myself a little more for this reason too. I found a way to control this problem. It may sound silly, and it is, but a little role playing keeps this problem at bay. It occured to me that the reason we all love new relationships is because it strokes our ego when we first find out someone is into us in that special way. So I like to role play that experience from time to time. At a restaurant, I might excuse myself to the men's room and come back to the table moments later pretending to be a stranger... introduce myself... use a cheesy pickup line, etc. They always play along, and most really get into it -- hell they probably have the same issue. And the best part of it is you get to go through the whole thing klnowing rejection isn't a possibility. And if you do it loud enough that other people can hear, then you get the added benefit of feeling like "the man".

Getting back to the feeling of being smothered, it really is the same thing. The lady certainly needs her alone time to do whatever also. We can't be joined at the hip 100% of the time. That just isn't healthy. In my last relationship my GF did her alone time, but I didnb't speak up to claim my alone time. What that really means is I was afraid that if I did, it woudl affect the relationship negatively. Could be fleas from the BPD relationship, but on some level it is a self esteem issue. I am afraid to speak up and claim what I need in the relationship isn't to be with her 24/7.Reframing it another way, I don't feel like I am "good enough" to set that boundary and have her accept it.

So now I think about it... if I want to go to the gym on a certain day, I speak up because there is nothing wrong with that, and I am certainly good enough that she can understand I need that time to do something other than be with her. Plus, she more than likley has some of her own "self" things to do. Lastly, some time alone is also time to miss the person -- too much time together leads to time to resent the person. Problem solved.

I don;t know if any of this applies to you, just taking a stab at it.

Hi PDQ,

I had walls around me for a very long time and did not even know it as a result of my uBPDm's influence on me; I didn't trust anyone close to me, period.  It's not easy to let them down even for a little bit and every time one I let them down I hoped that my vulnerability wouldn't get shredded as uBPDm would do.  I learned that sometimes it does get shredded and sometimes it doesn't; when it doesn't I have to take a little time to recover which is getting shorter and shorter as I learn to trust the world again.  It's like a dance, two steps forward and one step back.

If I wouldn't have taken a chance with my walls, and I did get burned several times unfortunately, I wouldn't have met my wonderful DH.  It takes a lot of courage to show our soft spots; by doing so we are also allowing ourselves to grow by understanding what makes us tick and also by rebuilding our trust in others.  We don't have to go out totally naked for all to see; just open up a little, feel the terrain.  I took my time and made it clear to DH that I wanted to take it easy without any good explanation really; he cared about me enough to stick around.  My walls are down now when I'm around him.

Anyway, I hope I make some sense...  xoxox

I learned that sometimes it does get shredded and sometimes it doesn't; when it doesn't I have to take a little time to recover which is getting shorter and shorter as I learn to trust the world again.  It's like a dance, two steps forward and one step back.  

 It takes a lot of courage to show our soft spots; by doing so we are also allowing ourselves to grow by understanding what makes us tick and also by rebuilding our trust in others.  We don't have to go out totally naked for all to see; just open up a little, feel the terrain.  

I love this, mwBPD!

I have a business that has been skeletonized by the economy, a house that is in the middle of a remodel, stopped by cash flow and desire, and a man that looks at me in the mirror, wondering what is next, anticipating more destruction.  

I wonder - does it give you any strength when you remember what you survived, and how you helped two girls with a seriously troubled mother grow up to be lovely young ladies?  :)o you know that after surviving all of this, with freedom and dignity intact, you can survive anything?  More importantly, with foresight and self-respect, you can prevent most things and mitigate almost anything?   Is the massive respect that newbies and oldies alike clearly have for you here some evidence of your value, of your right to feel joy and purpose?

Do I stay and rebuild, or do I start over doing something totally different?  

What is this referring to, PDQuick?  The business, the house?  Your identity?  I can't tell  ?

  Mousse

Hey all,

Great discussion...  And PDQ, I can identify with a lot of what you're sorting through.  I struggle with the long distance relationship-- I've put myself in my own 12-step program from them and have gone off them cold turkey!  My uBPDexh was a long distance relationship for eight years because of his job, and my bf before that because I met him while out of the country and we carried on after that.  The LD relationships are totally intermittent reinforcement and leave me sick and unsatisfied, yet strangely addicted.

One thing I've considered about it...do you meet the people you date long-distance while YOU'RE out of your area?  I mean, there's the thought that you're looking for someone who's safely out of your space, consciously or unconsciously.  Some of the others have brought this up.  But I don't think this is me and have a different theory.  Is it possible that when you leave your area, the novelty helps stimulate you and help you come out of your shell?  You meet new people and become a little more bubbly and noticeable to others?  But when you meet people locally you're in "hermit mode" and you are invisible to them?

If this is the case, the fix seems obvious-- to find things that get you a little more excited and "up".  Then the people you meet locally might seem more exciting to you, and you to them.  Same symptoms, but a subtle difference from the "afraid of intimacy" problem.  Thoughts, anyone?

OO

PD, Tonyc, Mountsi, Elphaba...JoannaK...mousse, schwing...  and all the others on this thread...

I struggle with some of the same things and have no answers.

Maybe it is all about trust. If that is the case, one we learn to trust ourself and we will be able to trust others.

Maybe it is about getting to know yourself first before you can commit to someone else. If that is the case, three years really isnt that long...

Maybe it is about healing.  that takes time as well.

Maybe it is fear?  of getting hurt again?  of losing ourselves again? 

Or maybe, just maybe you havent found the right person yet, and you are enough of your own person, to know that and be able to stand up on your own and be alone.

I think we all need to sort all those things out. And I am confident we can.  But I just have to say,  Holy moly what a group of incredible people you are.  Each of you should  believe in yourself and know that your presence on earth makes this world a better place. Each of you survived terrible abuse and destruction.. and came out with dignity and grace and wisdom and with a sense of humor intact. The generosity each of you showed in helping others, when you yourself were suffering so-is beyond compare. 

You can survive anything. Trust yourself. And trust your ability to survive and thrive and grow and you will do well. I am sure of it. 

Crystal

PDQuick, Could it be that you don't trust your own judgment ?  Maybe you feel like you let someone into your life who did so much damage, and now you are not confident you can choose someone who won't do the same ?  If so, self-imposed relationship boundaries might work to comfort you and allow you to open up more.  If you say that you will not have sex with a woman, that you will not get be exclusive, that you will only spend so many nights a week with them, not get engaged within a certain amount of time (or ever  :) )  - it might help to feel more at ease with opening up a little more.  ?  

I don't think it's that you/we don't trust our own judgement.  I think that we allow our past experiences cloud our current decision making.  I think we get into a pattern of finding the wrong people.  We very much know what we need vs want in a healthy relationship.  We then take actions to sabatoge our current relationship that are good and instead continue on in the unhealthy pattern.  I am hopeful I am overcoming all those things and moving on to a better place.

Hi Eeyore,  

Isn't this mistrust, either of your own judgement, or the outside world (specifically the dating pool) ?  If not, then why do you sabotage your current relationships if they are good ? (honest question, not trying to lead you here)  Is it because you are familiar with the unhealthy ones, so they are more safe ?

PDQ and everybody,

Reading through all the wise thoughts here, I guess my take on it - both for you and for me - is that, after going through something difficult and educational and frustrating and dramatic, I think it makes us much more self-aware, and aware of others, and of what can be under the surface that isn't so pretty.

I don't think, because I got burned by someone who wasn't who I thought she was, that everybody - or all women - are hidden borderlines.

But I do think, wow, I'm one clueless son of a gun.  And all that I've learned, most of it is about how to get out of the hole, and not that much is about how to avoid falling in.

So maybe you're not afraid, and maybe not cynical, but maybe just so much more aware, that you aren't feeling or projecting all the sunshiney optimism and clueless goodness that you used to.  Maybe now you're more thinking than doing, more analyzing than acting, still processing all these experiences.  (I think that's a lot of why we all spend lots of time here, by the way.)

I'm not sure if that's good or bad - knowledge is usually good but I might rather be happy than smart.  But you probably can't go back (without drugs) to as dumb as you were before, so you probably have to go forward to a new kind of relationship, and that might require just the right person.  Who will be harder to find I imagine.

Anyhoo, that's my 2 cents.

Best,

Matt

Why?  Why are you anticipating more destruction? 

PDQuick,

Phew!  I posted this accidentally in the thread where your quote came from...but luckily I could cut and paste! 

I came to this site to try to figure something out- but then was drawn to you thread.  In this post- I’ve included a quote from you that you wrote to me...a good ways back- in my thread- on another board and I will say that only a very sensitive, person could write with such honesty and introspection and empathy. 

I wrote about my D and after I explained my situation-  with great empathy you used your own history to try and soothe me.  I put parentheses around 3 different sentences that perhaps- maybe might hold a clue to what is going on- again just maybe and soon after the quote - I ask you 3 questions about these sentences.  Just my observation which could be totally off base but I thought I’d put in my 2 cents if it might help you.  I hope you don't mind that I dredged this quote up but it is one of  few post that is very memorable to me for several reasons.  You wrote: 


   

Soo - about that quote above- I put parentheses around 3 sentences that stood out to me.  Now I have quotes. 

1. “I was trying to force things to happen, because dammit, I could do better than what I was doing”.  Hmmm-  my question - is this presently the case for you - by any chance?

2. “That 17 year old, well, he had a little harder time, because it was the first time that he ever viewed his mom as anything but a superhuman”.

Just wondering- is “superhuman” playing a role now- whether it is something you expect in yourself or what you expect in a woman? 

3. “I was hurting myself, and I needed someone that I knew would be there for me through everything I could muster.” 

Again wondering- do you feel that you need someone who would be there for you no matter what?   Or do you feel that you expect this of yourself- especially since you tried this route already?  Is there some tug of war going on with this inside of you? 

Anyway- just somethings to ponder- and btw- those sandbags in one of your posts on this thread- what eloquence-  how wonderfully you speak in pictures- how beautifully put- yet hauntingly poignant and not just the sandbags- in general- you have a lovely gift for writing. 

PDQ,

I have read your posts, and am impressed with the way you express yourself...I like your cowboy poetry style of writing, but more than that, you show a depth that, I believe, is the result of the healin you've experienced after the emotional damage...OK, chest bump!  Can't get too mushy with a guy!

I think that you've gotten to a point where the problem is not with you, it's with them.  They may bring the looks, and that's great, but they don't have the ability to carry a relationship at at depth that you are.  You know what it's like to truly live selfless, what a real relationship is all about, if your posts are an indication of you.

Hang in there, buddy.  You're doing OK.  That person is out there that has the ability to match your varsity relationship ability...and I'm sure when you find her she will have her own success story, where she overcame similar adversity, and has the depth of character to win your heart and capture your imagination!

Happy Trails!  Buff

Ya'll need to quit inducing this salty substance that somehow leaks from my optical orfices everytime I come back and read a response here.

First of all, thank you, each and every one of you here. You all do mean the world to me, even if i dont tell you. Where do I begin?

TC, I know of that "shiny ball" syndrome as well. I seem to have that aspect going on as well.

MwBPD, Thank you. I have learned to trust people again, but I do it so differently now. I use to trust people in their words, but now, because of all of the work Ive done in therapy, and lessons I have learned here, I watch actions and have learned to trust those. You can tell me all you want, but until you show me, I wont believe.

Mousse, thank you for your kind words. ILooking back, I dont feel special for what I have come through, or an outlook I have, or even to what I contribute here. We all have strengths and weaknesses. I seem to have a strength with analogies, and that seems to be a very understandable feature to help me get a point out there. There are alot of people here more kind and compassionate than I am. Im just a drop in this ocean.

You asked me what that meant, and I wonder often if I should just uproot my life, and begin again somewhere that holds a future, rather than where Im at, that only has its past. Ive never liked where I live, but I cant go back to where Im from, because what I loved so much about it were the experiences. I know where Id like to land, but even that place is a bittersweet place of high hopes from within me, to an unrealized dream that will never come true.

Out of Oz, I have done the long distance relationship thing as well. Part of what is interesting to me is that they arent from where I live, and truth be told, I dont have alot of respect for where I live. In 21 years, I have never felt accepted, and Ive never fit in here. Ive always felt I was different, and people tend to agree with me on that subject. I live in a remote area that has alot of primitive thinking. Thank you for your kindness, I know I can survive, but to tell you the truth, Im past that, I want to thrive.

Crys, my angel that comes in from the outfield. Little do you all know that Crystal is alot of my inspiration, and saving grace. She and I went through it here together, and I love her to pieces, as well as many others here. You all would do well to have her wisdom cast upon you. Thank you my dear friend for honoring me with your presence.

Phoenix, I think I trust my own judgement, but it hasnt been challanged in a while. That is why I have this thread, hard to trust my judgement when I wont allow any connection close enough to judge. Id love to have a thread with you on what is a good relationship, when everything you had was less than mediocre. Big Macs are good when youre use to garbage. So, if you stop with McD's how will you ever experience a prime rib?

Matt, those 2 cents could buy a house. I wonder the same things alot of times. So, you tell me, when does the thinking subside, and the action begin?

Ellefun, Im not quite sure how to answer, I dont see where the quote is from.  :) Did I write that? Give me a break, I have ADD.  :) Yes, I do anticipate destruction, mostly because its all Ive known.

WSP, its your turn now. Thank you for that remembrance, I didnt recall it until I got into it. To answer your questions, I dont try to force anything at all anymore. I was foolish to think I could ever have an effect on the course I was on. I am who I am, and truthfully, I like myself for the first time in my life. Im not angry anymore, well, not so much. I have alot of burdens on me, and my attitude is, do your worst, because the most important thing to me is me, and noone can take that from me. Cars, home, belongings, are all replaceable, but Ive fought hard for this piece of mind, and you cannot take it from me. I am more open to opportunities now than I have ever been, and the secret to that is to stop trying to force things with tunneled vision, and fixated eyes.

Sadly, "superhuman" was a fantasy. It was the last thing I let go of from my childhood. Superhumans are just like Santa, great in theory, but useless in actuality. I know that everyone has faults, burdens, experiences and skeletons. Its the very thing that makes us all individuals.

Tug of war? I dont know. I am going to be the only person there for me for the entirety of my life. I accept that. I cant expect anyone to commit themselves to me like that. I understand we all have our paths in life, and even if I found someone to share mine with, it doesnt mean that there may be a fork in the road somewhere. I dont really expect anything from anyone, and maybe that is my problem in life, no expectations.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, I really do appreciate it.

Buffie, I'm by far not selfless.   I'm sure there are many people out there that share not only mine, but all of our levels of emotional recognition. There are literally thousands here on this website. Many people have impressed me with their thoughts. Many in this thread actually.

Here's the thing folks. Even our disordered ex's are capable, and have, in fact, mentioned and expressed many of the very same things that we all do here, on a day to day basis. We are all human beings first and foremost. As human beings, we all have the same desires to love, and be loved, nurture, and be nurtured, to feel safe and secure, respected and honored. It part of the human psyche. What we don't share is the pasts that they have, and the trials that they have. We all form patterns of thinking in direct response to our stimulus from our conceptions. We are the fortunate ones, because we can stop running and focus. We can feel things without being completely overwhelmed to the point of shutdown, or utter terror. We can realize our roles, instead of perpetuating our victimizations. We are just a few experiences away from their mental similarity. We all have "traits." Some of us even have fleas. They are no more monsters than we are amoebas. They are no more primitive than we are stellar. They are humans, wanting the same things we do, but going about it in a different way. They are simply different than us, not wrong, not right, just different. I have tried to love someone different, and it didnt work. It wasnt, looking back, as catastrophic as I once thought. What was, was my desire for her to be like me. She wasn't. And to tell you the truth, that is ok. She taught me who I was. She gave me the power to stop and face what I needed to face. She made me who I am today, and if it weren't for her, I would still be running. That makes her the single most important piece to my puzzle. Because the relationship went so wrong, so bad, I gained something I had lost for 27 years. Me. Yet, she walked away with nothing out of it. She is still who she was. This is what I will take from her, I will take myself and the knowledge that different isnt bad, it just doesnt work for me, I need someone more like myself. I recognize that now, and I accept it. And to tell you all the truth, I thank my lucky stars for her coming into my life.

My perception of my past relationship, as it currently sits in my head, is that two people came together for 13 years, through tremendous pain, and only one gained something from it, leaving the other to remain on their own burdened path. The one that gained something is thankful, yet the other remains bitter. Are you sure you still want to label me as selfless? 

By the way Buffie... (chest bump) GO COWBOYS!

That is exactly why I thought it might be that you are not trusting your own judgment - that you won't allow anyone to get close.  That is exactly what someone would do if they didn't trust their own judgement.  It is a guess.  That's not to say it isn't something else.  You proposed a question, and I was doing my best to help you.  No need to get defensive.  Although it seems you are making a judgment on me ?  I don't really know how you can compare my relationships to yours ?  Or why you would want to ?  Are you saying that your relationships were prime ribs and mine have been McDs ?

Phoenix, Im sorry, I think I wrote that totally wrong. I wasnt defensive.  :) I didnt mean "you" in the literal sense. I was trying to say that how can "I". Healthy relationships are not something I have seen. My ex and I got together when I was 23. So, dysfunction is really all I know. So healthy really is a sliding scale for me. When I talked about a "garbage" relationship, I was talking about mine. So, a big mac would be pretty good, much better than what I was use to. I apologize for my poor choice of words, and if I upset you.

Thanks for explaining PDQuick.  I am glad it was a misunderstanding.  I had a bad experience yesterday on one thread, and I was hoping this was not another one.  So, while you may be guilty of poor wording, I am guilty of being on high alert for slights.  So I apologize too.  I would gladly have a thread with you about quality of relationships.  I don't know that there is a lot of fine dining on my side either.  If you started a thread, I would surely do my best to contribute.  

Just to clarify, I wasn't questioning your judgment.  I was wanting you to look at your 'trust' in your judgment.  But it sounds like it is something else anyway.  Like some of the others have alluded to, maybe you have changed.  Maybe what you want now is different, but because you have been removed from the field for a while, you don't know exactly what that is ?  maybe you have not defined exactly what the new PDQuick wants. 

Is it possible that allthis worrying and self examination is pointless, because maybe you just aren't into her as much as you want, or as much as you think you should? Maybe although you think she has all the attributes you seek, this woman just doesn't set off your fire alarm. Doesn't mean the fire alarm is broken, just that you may not be as aware as you thought about what attributes set off your alarm. Sometimes we get so caught up in this BPD relationship survival game, but sometimes it has nothing to do with any of that.

What you describe about your general pattern of getting emotionally closer to people that are physically distant, it does seem to be fear of intimacy. The people that are geo far from you can't rage in your face, throw things at you, hit you, etc. They can't suck up all your time and energy. Most of us didn't realize the BPD issues until we lived together and then it became quickly apparent. All good reasons to fear physical closeness. So maybe it does have to do with the BPD past. You can't do anything abotu the past, and all you can do is move yourself forward by telling yourself the obvious -- this new woman is not your past BPD ex, and you are emotionally smart enough not to get sucked into that again. You give a lot of good insight on these boards so it is clear you have your head back on straight -- I am sure your heart is likewise. You just have to trust yourself that you have chosen well, and trust her because she probably hasn't done anything to deserve not to be trusted.

Yesterday, my D16 interviewed me for a "Regrets Exercise."  It was a series of 5 questions, the last being... if I had any advice for a young person like herself, what would it be?  I said, "to not live a life controlled by fear; to believe in yourself and the goodness of life; to have faith." 

I know we have all seen the "badness" that life can offer, but by living in fear that we will once again experience that (expecting destruction, PDQ), we block out the possibility of experiencing the goodness.  In the end, if we don't have what we need and want, it is because we haven't taken the risk.  A life lived in fear is a life half-lived. 

Just because you don't see yourself as special doesn't mean that you haven't touched a large handful of us in such a special way...so don't downplay that for those of us who see you as something that you don't think you are.  :)


xoxo

"It costs so much to be a full human being that there are very few who have the enlightenment, or the courage to pay the price...

One has to abandon altogether the search for security, and reach out to the risk of living with both arms.

One has to embrace the world as a lover.

One has to accept pain as a condition of existence.

One has to count doubt and darkness as the cost of knowing.

One needs a will stubborn in conflict, but apt always to total acceptance of every consequence of living & dying."

~Morris L. West in The Shoes of the Fisherman


If you really want it.. than you have to risk those parts of you again.  You have to have faith in your new found sensors, and perhaps be less afraid.  Only you can figure out how to do that.. and we're all here for you every step of the way.  xoxox

~DreamGirl

That poem said all I wish I had the eloquence to say.    

PD, you post some of the most thoughtful responses. Feel free to not feel special - but I feel you are.

Your problem I can relate. I've been touched several times by BPD and every time it has been a great rush and then a big crash. The last time I understood and changed. Now the rush is over, the fighting has subsided, wife mostly happy and I struggle. Somehow I lack the anger I had the previous times. I changed, am more mellow. I'm glad that I changed but I'm not more energized. Sitting here in a messy room that needs tidying up since weeks. No energy, at least not yet. There will not be a bounce back, recovery will take a different path.

And while I struggle I put my hope on validation - a gift that seem to keep giving. I reach out and am able to connect to people in different ways. Not sure where that leads but it feels good.

Fear controls attachment. And at least to me having fear of a beautiful and obtainable women close by feels natural - I guess a non problem. Your analysis of needing intimacy 101 may not be far off. But on the other hand you teach BPD 630 and know how to get closer - validate her. Control your fear - self validate, open up to her. And how to protect yourself with boundaries.

Not much insight I fear, nothing on your level, just basic fundamentals. But those matter too.  xoxox

An0aught, I just woke up after a very LONG and STRESSFUL day of playing christmas shows, with a completely unprepared band and a new venue. In my grog, even before a cup of coffee, your post makes complete sense to me.

Maybe this is the "withdrawl" period. I was angry and running from myself for so long. All my senses are still very much numb from those years. Maybe the only thing that Im going to feel is something extremely special, or highly emotional. Makes for a good topic of thought. Thank you for putting that in my head.

DG, thank you very much. You are a dear soul to me and I really do appreciate that quote from you.

We all touch each other here, most of the times, we never know that we have done it. Thank you all for allowing me to see it.