BPDFamily.com

We would of been together for 2 years yesterday. I haven't heard from her in such a long time. I

Most days I have strength and I have an overwhelming feeling of positivity. I also think kabout the future and give thanks she is no longer in my life. I vehemently am against any sort of thinking about her and her realizing she messed up.

Sometimes I feel down. I feel like crap. I miss her but I don't want her. What kills me whenever I feel like this is her indifference towards me. her "not phased, who's iamdizzy? Ya we went out, he's bad who cares" attitude. It's not because of childhood or any issue, as a human being, that ___ hurts. Someone who meant a lot has a "huh? Who cares?" About me, the suffering, and the relationship.

Anyone in my position? How do you guys get through this? I feel like crap, I hate having my feelings flux like this.

I think we are all in your shoes mate.

All.

However, what we have to learn is that they don't have indifference towards us. We feel as if they have indifference towards us. They project indifference and we interpret that that they don't give an ___ about us. They do. They truly do. They DO care about us. However we triggered ancient fears within them which let them have a brainwire earthquake in their head, and therefore they smear us, they push us away and don't want or seemingly don't want anything to do with us.

You would like to be validated, You would like some nice cozy words that you meant something to her as she did to you. I can tell you, YOU DID MATE. Why? Because she entered a relationship with you, and chose you, because she truly thought she could find stability within being with you. Per definition you meant something to her. She smears and is not nice right now, purely out of the fact that she of course has to believe in the fact that it's better that you guys are not together anymore and why would she then still show intimate emotions towards you? They don't have that remember ... .

Me, too. I like what Harm said above. Six years, two kids, she still living in my house. She wanting to go out to dinner and a concert as if we were just buddies and everything didn't matter. Like she told me the other night "well, we had a good six year run... ." What the heck? It mattered and still matters to me. To hell with her. I won't give her that validation to whatever is twisted around inside of her. And I know it is, because still living with her, I see the mask drop now and then.

And she posted she was thankful for her kids, family, and me on FB last night... .it's like she's fast forwarded a few years where I am still in daily turmoil (but moving slowly towards the acceptance phase). Maybe it would be good to read the detaching/leaving article. It summarizes how quickly they move on from us, or seem to on the outside, as if we didn't already have it shoved in our faces.

aw Dizzy... .I so get where you're coming from.  The feeling disposed of/feeling of indifference- it's the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around-illness or no.  My relationship with my unBPDbf ex (okay, I still don't get the abbreviations right-but you know what I mean) was 2+ years and it was great, right up to the end over Fourth of July weekend when I saw a darkness come over him, then a rage and a "that's it!  we're over!"  around some trigger that I will never truly understand.  I knew it wasn't another person because we had been almost inseparable for 24/7 for most of that time.  My family loved him, my friends loved him... I loved him... and I am left trying to explain something that I don't really understand to people who had been brought into his life who are also blindsided at his total absence now.  I've sent some texts that are kind, leaving the door open to a conversation, sent photos of our friends, stuff... .  he simply doesn't respond.  I even sent a letter-nothing too heavy, just a connection... .no response.  Once again, trying the NC thing-but it's so not who I am.

The longer time goes on, the more I realize that I ignored red flags all along.  I didn't know about BPD however, until after the breakup.  Thank god for this place, for my counselor, for friends and family... .mostly for the information about this disorder that helps me move closer and closer from the pain to acceptance of a horrible disorder.  I feel sure that if he ever does contact me, I will see him but wouldn't go back.  I'm doing much better-with dips from time to time.

I don't know if ~ 4 months is a long time for them to go silent and then reconnect, or if that's it.  Over, done, period.  Really hard to accept-especially after the loving attempts at connection I've tried to make.  No blaming, no crap-just the request to talk with him-or to have him tell me to get the hell out of his life.  Nothing... absolute silence.  Unfortunately he lives very close (he moved here to be near to me) so I see his truck parked outside his apartment-or I don't over a weekend and wonder where he is, who he may be with. 

My feelings flux too... .  right there with you 

Harmkrakow,

I do believe that we meant something, That's why we triggered them. It's just so hurtful from a human aspect,  to be dismissed like that. She was with another guy while I was mourning our break up. I guess the best way to summarize this is

she has made such a tremendous impact to me and its damn near impossible to just say my BPDex? Who cares? ... .I feel like I was just a toy that she just got bored with. I was nothing, I meant nothing. Yeah, one could say you don't need validating from her and yes, it's me who does that but getting to the primal human nature root of this, it's just hurtful. To have someone who put you through hell and they have no inkling or regard or care about you, it stings.

Isseeu & Turkish,

Thank you both, it's nice to know there are people who actually get it. Who actually get the pain. The death of hope that we so foolishly place on them.

How do you guys cope? What do you guys recommend?

I cope with the realization that I can't blame her for making me feel hit. It stings you say? Yes, if she did it on purpose to hurt me. But she didn't. :)

Have I been through hell and forth? You bet ya, I was totally dysfunctional for a good 2 months, endless crying, suicidal contemplation, lots of therapy, anti depressants. Now I am off all of that ... :)

You talk about the primal root of a human being. That starts with you, and not with someone else. I also struggle with the feeling that I didn't mean jack ape-sh!t to her. But I know I did, at a certain point in time. That is sufficient for me. That I want validation out of something which can't give it to me is not her problem but mine. I can't ask a blind person to guide me the way.

Put it the other way around, if she would validate you, and show empathy to your feelings now you have broken up, that'd be more scary. Cuz those are not signs of BPD, but those are signs of normal sanity.

[quote author=Iamdizzy link=topic=211617.msg12329381#msg12329381 date=1382134579

Sometimes I feel down. I feel like crap. I miss her but I don't want her. What kills me whenever I feel like this is her indifference towards me. her "not phased, who's iamdizzy? Ya we went out, he's bad who cares" attitude. It's not because of childhood or any issue, as a human being, that ___ hurts. Someone who meant a lot has a "huh? Who cares?" About me, the suffering, and the relationship.Anyone in my position? How do you guys get through this? I feel like crap, I hate having my feelings flux like this. [/quote]
Totally understand how dizzy this must be making you feel ... .been there,experienced that time and again.

The first thing to do is to understand and fully accept the fact that their behavior has nothing to do with the way you treated them.Do not take it personally,you will cry yourself to sleep every night for the rest of your life if you do but it won't change them.

Second thing to understand is that it is an emotional regulation and attachment disorder.The more care and love you bestow upon them,the more indifferent/distant/harsh they are because being loved triggers them.Indifference /being distant/running away is their way of going back to their 'safe world'.It is a defense mechanism that helps them get past each day.

Thirdly,there is a lot of chaos and confusion in their fractured emotional realm which does not allow them to attach/ bond or care like a non(non's bonding=sustained,deepens with time if things go well,emotionally connected,has a mourning period if things end).Hence they are able to leave easily/project/take on new identities(refer my other post) as fast as changing clothes.

So,in summary,accepting the above stated facts and realizing that she was never experiencing 'love' and 'bonding' the way you were even during the relationship will help you to stop hurting.

Wish you strength and courage to let go and move to better things that life has in store for you.

Good luck.

You know what? I am not there yet, since I will apparently have to live with her for a month, possible a few now. I HATE seeing her every day, because despite what she did, I want her even more now, I don't know why. So I try to stay away. Can't fantasize about it.

I am better, much better than I was a month ago, definitely two. Talk to friends. Post and read here (I am doing so much, hope I don't get warned :^). Drink a little, if you have to now and then.

I also copy certain posts that resonate with me into a document I am saving for later.

Find a therapist, if you can afford one (my budget is blown now, so I am going every week, despite her costing me about $12K over the last two months... .savings depleted, piddly investments sold). Get some outside alone time unless you are really depressed. Then get help. Seriously. Though is natural to feel depressed. I took the depression test posted here on... .the taking inventory board? Turns out that I am moderately depressed. Nothing suicidal though. Don't feel bad if you cry. I don't totally lose it, but I do for a minute or two throughout the day. At work, in the car, even with the kids, though I try to catch myself around them and stop it. It's ok. It is natural and healthy. I've rejected my old school theory that real mean don't cry through all of this.

Helps?

Sure it stings,hurts like hell.Day after day,as long as you hold on and 'expect' them to have some semblance of decency and an iota of sensitivity and empathy for how much we are hurting.But that day never comes and we realize they are incapable of emotions.

That is when it stops stinging.

Give yourself time,you will get there.

Mine was triggered... .but over the last year she sensed my indifference and resentment towards her. I need to deal with that on my own. It triggered her to be more angry and detach from me quite easily into a safe relationship with basically a 20+ year old who sounded like, the way she described him to me, like the emotional equivalent of a 13 year old. Safe. Easy. She correctly surmised my emotions... .she just misinterpreted the reasons behind them. At least the other night she verbalized that she did treat me horribly. There is hope for her, perhaps, but I can't be her dad anymore. She got the love she desired from me (her dad), but the resentment and anger broke through the mirror. Pretty high functioning, sometimes... .but otherwise, our story is similar to so many here.

Posts of others, only one or two of mine. It will help me write the book later, heh. I don't know, that's just me.

Yeah, right. I've always said I'd write a book about my childhood, but I don't think I could without hurting my mother, so probably not, but who knows?

Doing others pain, is basically one of the inevitable things we do in life. It happens. Nothing you can do about it. Are you going to chose for your mother or yourself?

You've got quite an interesting selection of post turkish!

Right there with you Dizzy, to the point that yesterday was the anniversary of our first date (4 years ago).  We would always meet at the same location each year to celebrate... .we looked forward to it so much.  Leading up to yesterday I entertained unhealthy fantasies that she would suddenly want us to reunite there, at least to see one another for the first time in nearly four months.  I realize this isn't conducive to healing, but I slide every now and again. 

To be honest, I dread her next stab at communication with me--it will likely be leading one step closer to the divorce she says she wants.  I need to prepare myself for this--I'm getting stronger, but I have a long way to go. 

Dizzy,

How do I cope... .I too am in counseling. I specifically chose a therapist who specializes in BPD. She has helped me understand the pain and darkness of their disorder. Somehow, being in a place of compassion and understanding calms me a bit. Of course it brings out all of the "if I only knew then what I know now" thoughts. That's the caretaker- the fixer/savior in me- and you just can't save them as we are all trying to accept. So, we are now (trying to) focus on me- why I was attracted, what was really there (or frankly not) in terms of deep emotional connection. I still hijack the conversation with my counselor and try to get answers about what's going on in his head, what he may or may not be doing- and she is patient- but reminds me that these are questions with no answers.

I too started on anti depressants- lost 20# over 2 months- not sleeping, etc.I was in a dark deep hole I couldn't see out of. I will stay on them thru the holidays then reassess.  Things are a bit better- actually I'm able to function again at work, work out, etc. I have relied heavily on friends and family.

So very very hard- but it gets incrementally better. I know from his daughters and friends (he has exactly 2 friends) that I was the best thing that ever happened to him.  I'm realizing (on good days) that I'm pretty great and that he lost a lot.  

I'll beg to differ a bit here, they hate us. When the switch flips? It's hatred. They can't do indifference. Also, each pwBPD is different. Some are more extreme than others. Mine is extreme. Love/ Hate. In the middle is contempt for me.

Sawtooth


It will be like trying to turn lead into gold to get a pwBPD to see the pain they have caused you.

If they come back? It's to recycle you. For their benefit.

If you finally leave during the devaluation phase? They will hate you with such vehemence. It's a horrible disorder. Lao Tzu made a good point in another thread about reading the BPD boards, when you see what they are writing? It's another reality. Not one I want to be part of any longer.

 nothing hurts worse than the emotional pain of dealing with a pwBPD. But when the mask drops, that's who they really are. Not the mirror they presented. Eventually we must detach, and carry on. Hurts, but staying with them, hurts far more.

The indifference they portray... .

Is an appearance.

It is all part of the control... .

The pwBPD wishes to exert... .

Over you.

What better... .

And more... .

Brutally effective way... .

Can they display... .

To hurt... .

Those whom... .

Get closest to them... .?

Indifference.

Now infuse... .

A little thinking... .

If they were really indifferent... .

They wouldn't have BPD... .

Right... .?

That would require self reflection... .

Right... .?

Remember... .

If you read the accounts on here... .

What exactly have any... .

Of us Nons... .

Done to the pwBPD... .

To elicit... .

This harsh response... .?

What crime did we commit... .

To them... .

To get this in response... .?

There is one... .

We loved them.

That was the crime.

And for that... .

We are guilty.

The more you loved them... .

The closer you got to them... .

The harder... .

They doled out that... .

Appearance... .

Of indifference... .

At the end.

My exUBPDgf... .

Was no different.

"The more you loved them... .

The closer you got to them... .

The harder... .

They doled out that... .

Appearance... .

Of indifference... .

At the end.

My exUBPDgf... .

Was no different."

Beautifully stated, once again, Ironmanfalls.

Their indifference really is a game, a punishment. They are trying to punish us, they are sadists.

True. And at which point along the way are we guilty of not being true to ourselves?

Why put up with such lousy behavior?

www.arachnoid.com/psychology/victimhood.php (http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/victimhood.php)

This is quite a thought provoking article.

Successful people don't become victims for another reason — they know if they won't take responsibility when things go wrong, they lose the right to take credit when things go right. This is a statement, one among many, of the symmetry principle. Perpetual victims are subject to the symmetry principle also, but because of their utterly negative outlook on life, they don't expect anything ever to go right, so being a victim has no downside.


And the more I loved myself and knew without question that my self worth was more important to me than what my partner was dishing out at me? The less inclined was I to put up with the horrible treatment and as such, he mirrored my walls/detachment. He tried to get through with the usual, emotional blackmail, FOG and all the other weapons of choice. But when you know what they are? They lose their effect. The Love I once felt, slowly and painfully died as the moves on the chessboard of the games of his manipulation became terribly and painfully apparent.

BPD do not and cannot comprehend reciprocity. They can mime and mimic the concept in an abstract sense, but in a one on one they cannot do it. I will not flatter myself with the thought that my partner loved, he cannot. He hates himself. He cannot love another, he can take pride in the accomplishments of his children as they are a reflection of himself in his mind. But to love and empathize? That would be a rarity.

Mine actually told me, "I feel indifferent towards you.  I don't care about you anymore.  I feel nothing for you.  You don't matter to me at all and I don't care what happens to you."

How did I deal with that?

Tears!  Lots of tears!  And panic attacks.  Those words... .and the words, "I don't love you anymore," really hurt me.  I know that was the point.  She was discarding me and trying to cause me as much pain as possible.  It worked.

Thank you all... .

I just had a nice glass of my favorite beer and I Must say this is what I needed. I am in no way drowning my sorrows at the bottom of a vodka bottle. I sit here in my heartache, thinking so much.

How can I be a better person?

What's going to be different for me?

What lessons has she thought me?


Of course, I'd like to know if someone whom I made love to, cared for deeply, even entertained the possibility of having a future and dare I say, kids with, deep down cares. Or at least masks her pain when it comes to me. I'd like to know that I meant something p, sh-t this pain that I feel, it be nice to know

Hey Ismdizzy, I cared for you, I love you, I want to be with you, I think about you all the time, but I am disordered. I understand I can't be good for you, I don't understand myself but I do understand that I'm not good for you.

Maybe it's the beer talkin g (I like my beers strong) but who knows.

Spot on Hope.

A game... .

Where... .

We are completely... .

Outmatched.

A game... .

Where... .

The punishment... .

Has catastrophic... .

Consequences... .

On the non... .

Us.

You.

Me.

A game... .

That has no win... .

At the end.

Iamdizzy

I also hope for the same things. Even though I am not without my flaws I was a very good man to her and It hurts very much when it feels like i didn't even make an indent in her heart... .

We already have issues with self worth and this scenario doesn't help things... .

To answer IamDizzys original question... .

How do you deal with their indifference towards us... .?

In round 1 of discard... .

My exUBPDgf told me... .

"Ironmanfalls... .

There is nothing about you that i really like... ."

She initiated the relationship.

How did i deal with that... .?

I just had come across BPD... .

At that time... .

And the words... .

Still tore right through my ironman suit.

I cried for weeks.

Would read the accounts on here... .

As a guest.

My artwork... .

At that time... .

Helped me cope.

I started to heal... .

3 months into NC... .

That is when she returned.

In round 2 of discard... .

My exUBPDgf told me... .

"Ironmanfalls... .

There is nothing about you that i really like... ."

You read correctly.

She said... .

The same exact... .

F¥cking thing... .

That she told me in round 1.

And she was the one... .

Who returned to me.

Begging and crying.

How did i deal with that... .?

By finally posting on this forum.

And sharing with you guys... .

What i have been undergoing.

And the tears... .

Returned... .

In massive streams.

Although she said the same thing... .

It hurt me far more.

Her behavior towards me... .

Ripped my ironman suit... .

To shreds.

I am still dealing.

But i am also healing.

Hang in there IamDizzy.

You are not alone.

Ironmanfalls, you mention the 3 months of NC in round 1 and now you are hitting another 3 months if I am not mistaken - my BPDex told me she left the only other "good guy" she dated before me out of the blue and because she was not happy, then went back to him after 2 months because she wanted to get back with him only to find out (and I think she is lying about this reason) that he had slept with her other boyfriend's ex girlfriend whom she hated so she decided she could not be with him.  My guess is he did NOT want her back and she made up that story... .BUT then she said her next boyfriend she suspected cheated on her so she left him and then came back once again after 2 months and forgave him (again I take her stories with a grain of salt because she is a liar).

So what's with this 2 month (mine) / 3 month (yours) pattern? Are these patterns? Or are they pretending on being indifferent and punishing us in this time?  I am 5 weeks NC and the thought of her trying to contact me after 2 months gives me the creeps.  Maybe borderlines have some type of internal clock which allows them to maintain NC for only a set period of time whereas we NONS who are healing are able to maintain NC indefinitely.

I'm pretty confident my uBPDexgf's clock will ignore me forever now... .Ironman things she will reach out again but I doubt it. Just like my thread below I think she is too much of a coward even if she wanted to.

They definitely are cowards. I am hoping to be on the fast track to healing because I want to be able to ignore her attempts, if any.  That's the only way.

i guess at times i try to embrace the indifference, as i feel it is real for her at times. other times i see it as her biggest lie. the thing i'm working on now is seeing this person as worthless, but without anger or hate. and it's kind of a fine line, but i feel like i'm getting there.

truth be told i feel like it's a race to full devaluation of this person. but i don't want to devalue her out of a reaction of hate/anger/revenge. i acknowledge these feelings though, but want to let them run their course and then leave me alone because truly i know that i'm safe now. i think what's shocking for all of us is the speed and toxicity pwBPD do their devaluing of us--well, it's just that they've had *lots* of practice, you know? none of this behavior was new to my ex, i'm now seeing, really the hate/devaluing is her true self and something i was able to stave off longer in her than any of her previous r/s... .i'm sure she'll meet and be with someone that can stabilize and be with her longer in the future too. and that's all good.

i guess what i'm saying is that yes it does hurt to be devalued not only so fast, but usually with malicious intent. i think it's important to know that we also have the power to fully devalue them over time, even if slower. because slower means that we are actually *dealing* with our feelings, so it's more real. besides, when we're done devaluing them it will be done with so much more class and tact  :)

I'd prefer not to get caught up in the PD think. Devalue? It's not necessary to do so. I make my choice to remain or leave the r/s based on the actions of my partner. Their actions and behaviors towards me may be of a devaluing and PD driven nature however my thought processes and emotions will not follow such a vulgar formula.

Losing respect for another and respecting yourself enough to leave a toxic person is not a devaluation of another. It's valuing yourSelf above the level that they would wish to place you.

Hope... .

It is a cycle of behavior... .

A pattern.

The time period... .

Is most likely due... .

To the amount of time... .

It takes the pwBPD... .

To return to a baseline... .

Or flatline... .

Of emotional behavior.

Remember... .

Since we trigger them... .

And they dysregulate in the process... .

And paint us black... .

That painting of black... .

Does not remain permanent.

Every time... .

They return... .

They are painting you white... .

And once we trigger them again... .

Inevitably... .

They paint us black again.

For them to return... .

To an undysregulated state... .

Is a slow process.

With the non out of the picture... .

They slowly return to that state... .

And then... .

They remember... .

In a needy way... .

That they want us again... .

And we are painted white... .

And the cycle begins anew.

Also... .

For them to paint us white... .

Means... .

Someone else got painted black.

In my case... .

From what i saw... .

It was her mother... .

Who was painted black... .

When she returned to me... .

Then painted white... .

While i was painted black.

Confusing... .?

Yes.

BPD... .

Hell on earth.

Snap... .

Your ex has tested the water with you... .

With that song request.

Do not be surprised... .

If she attempts another contact with you.

Do not let your guard down.

It is a pattern of behavior.

Not all pwBPD do this... .

But a lot of the accounts on here... .

Describe a far too similar tale.

Thank you Ironmanfalls for your insight.

FOG is not a weapon used by pwBPD. FOG is about us, this has nothing to do with a person wBPD. FOG is about our own lack of boundaries or our lack in enforcing them.

F-Fear... .our fear to enforce our own boundaries

O-Obligation... .the obligation we feel to others

G-Guilt... .our feelings of guilt if we do set boundaries

A pwBPD has a disorder, a mental disorder, they are not generally malicious. The behaviors of a pwBPD that seem malicious to us are coping techniques for them. If a healthy person were to do things spoken of here, that would be malicious.

i agree with you on the FOG. however i think we have to be fair and say that different people undergo different things from their ex. it sounds like your BPD (ex?) isn't the malicious type. and that's really cool, i've heard many here say that their ex's weren't malicious. but, on the same token, mine was. she took joy in causing emotional harm to others (not just me, many others). now, i do believe she is mentally unhealthy, but that doesn't mean that her behavior isn't malicious at times. there were plenty of times when she wasn't malicious though, quite the opposite, however i don't think that just because someone has BPD they get a pass and that anything they do cannot be seen as being cruel or malicious. very true it is a coping mechanism, or a bad habit, but i think it's important to just understand the actions for what they are. and sometimes they are malicious. if we think of many terrible things that humans do--murder, rape, lying, etc.--much of this can be explained away by the person being mentally unhealthy, however the actions themselves are still malicious in my opinion.

i can see my ex's behavior as malicious and this doesn't in any way stop my healing. it may have started at finger pointing at some point, but also it's just acceptance that this is who this person is. i totally understand the need to look at oneself and to not only make a monster of your ex. completely agree with this. however i'm also done with not trusting my gut instincts about the intentions from this unhealthy person. if i feel like they are being cruel, then most likely they are. i'm learning to trust this instinct more and more and i feel this is healthy.

We could discuss all the terrible things that happened in our relationships all day long but I don't care to do that. Why? Because that would simply be co-ruminating and it would keep me stuck in the past. My acceptance comes with the fact that I played an equal role in the emotional immaturity of this relationship. I was in a relationship with a disordered person and I, myself, pointed many a finger. I was in a relationship with someone who mirrored me, it was a fantasy. My self worth was so low that I ignored flags and I put myself in harms way.  

Had I had good, healthy boundaries I would have exited at the first sign of unhealthy behaviors.

When you point a finger at someone else, never lose site of the fact that three are pointing back at you.


Trusting your gut instincts are good to a point. Logically, would you "feel" a 4 year old throwing a toy at you when not getting their way cruel? Of course not, you would likely see this as a temper tantrum and expect it since a 4 year old has not developed coping skills to deal with their emotions. Emotionally, a pwBPD is generally around the age of 4.

I can not imagine the pain to hear those words ... .I am so sorry for you.

I too feel used and discarded.

But my primary feeling right now is a combination of anger and shame. Angry that I have "wasted" months crying over this person who is happy as can be without me. And shame ... .I am embarrassed that I cared so much for him. I saw what I wanted to see. I saw the red flags. I rationalized ... .MY BAD.

Hope... .

Welcome.


Century... .

Your ex only appears to be happy.

They do an excellent job... .

Of portraying that.

That is a way for them... .

To fool others(the enablers)... .

And to hurt us... .

All in one fell swoop.

I saw the red flags too... .

And I ignored them as well.

I am currently... .

Repairing the damage... .

In the aftermath.

I know the shame you feel.

Hang in there Century.

perhaps because you already have? you have several thousand posts (thank you for this!) which leads me to believe perhaps you are at a later stage of understanding than many others. venting to me is one of the first steps of recovery. of course you don't want to get stuck there, but for someone in the beginning stages of recovery i think it's unfair to say "don't talk about them at all, it's pointless, it's only about you". i think it's natural to vent, especially in the beginning, even if you are doing tons of self reflection. this is all a natural part of understanding the totality of who this person is and who you are.

i am admitting to minor finger pointing on my part only so that i stay self aware, but trust this isn't my MO, i do tons of self reflection and have gone through tremendous growth i feel.


it's good that you have found this out for yourself, that you shared equally in the emotional immaturity. however i think it's good to stay open minded and know that others like myself, don't feel in the least like we played an equal role in the emotional immaturity of the relationship. i can look at all of my r/s both previous and after this and see that they were much different, much healthier. i had issues in my r/s with BPDx, yes, but the same type of issues i've had in others. and these are things i'm still learning from. however i feel after all this time out of the r/s i can say that the majority of the crazy making was on her. sorry, but the wild and crazy just wasn't 50% me. although i was naive often, i did have many a boundary pushed and/or broken... .ultimately i learned a lot about humanity and myself. and i'm wiser now to recognize the signs and see what people are capable of. but it would be untruthful in my situation to try and accept 50% of the blame as you have.


i'd like to respectfully disagree with this point. i do think there is some truth in it. however even someone with healthy boundaries can let them bend or be bruised when they are confused. or when they are in love. or when they're being plain stupid  :) i hear this quote over and over, but have you ever asked someone who feels that they generally have healthy boundaries how they feel? i did leave, but it wasn't at the first sign, hell i didn't even know what the signs were at the time. i stayed until i found out enough and then i left... .then the isht hit the fan so to speak  lol please laugh with me i'm laughing at myself.


true, a 4 year old throwing a toy isn't cruel. how about some other stories we all know about though? how about grown man holding a knife to his gf stomach as a "joke". how about a grown woman trying to convince her child that her father sexually molested her, just to try to get back at him. no regard for the child or for him. false charges of domestic violence. smear campaigns. cheating whilst lying and saying you want to be with someone forever. true a pwBPD is emotionally immature, but at the same time they are adults, many know good and well right from wrong, and obviously from participation here their behavior is more devastating than that of a 4 year old with a temper tantrum. the analogy i think is a good one perhaps for their mental maturity, but their adult behaviors are much more damaging.

i trust my gut because it was invaluable in saving me so much pain and anguish, especially during the end and after my r/s ended. my gut was telling me all sorts of things that i didn't want to believe, but once i acted on these feelings i was able to see my exgf true nature and i feel was able to protect myself much better than if i had ignored these feelings. time and again after acting on my gut feeling, i'd see things play out and show me that my instincts were true. sometimes i can be oversensitive but to be honest i would be lost without this connection to myself. i want to let others know that if you are having any sort of communication with your ex, and you end up feeling terrible and as if they are trying to hurt you--guess what, it's true, they are. irregardless of what they think or feel, you have to trust your own instincts in this matter and this will help you set those boundaries and be less open to being hurt again.

You enabled her. Your behavior enabled her crazymaking. You played a part in this dance, which makes it 50/50.

I got that too. "I don't care about what happens to you, I just don't want to hear from you ever again".

How do deal with it? I just think Fu** u! A person who talks to me in that way shortly after we break up doesn't even deserve that I am sad for her. Rather than getting depressed over that statement it helps me to not think about her too much or miss her.

It also proves that all this "I can't imagine living without you" and "I love you a little more than you love me" was just crap.

Ofc it hurt me as well when I heard it from her the first time. But now looking back it just proofs me that she wasn't the right one.

I realized that I stayed during her outbreaks. She often tell me when she would put her mask on "babe thank you so much for dealing with me I love you" but then repeat her behavior over and over. I stayed because I was a little naive idiot. I usually have strong boundaries and when a girl acts bat___ crazy I tell them they, there's the door, aud weidersehen!.  This one however, told me elaborate stories of her rape, abusive boyfriends, messed up childhood. By the 4th month I wanted to run away and the more I though about just leaving the more I thought about her getting raped, since she provided me with word by word play and graphic detail on the matter. I felt like that would be the ultimate betrayal.

Some of you mentioned that some may have malicious intent. In my case, yes, my BPDex used her rape to manipulate me. She would say words that would, as ironman would say, rip off my suit. Soul stabbing words followed by "babe sorry, be patient, this is the time I was raped". She knew how to play with me. If we had a great week, she often state, we needed this we really did. I love you and then say something to cause an argument.

All these things show a lack of respect for myself from her and myself. Something I need to improve, why couldn't I tell her to shove off? But I could to other women who were crazy?

I want to know that all this pain she caused (yes partly because I stayed) at least as disordered as she may be and how elaborate her mask may be, has some sort of "I miss him, I messed up, I'm chaotic, but I will always having something for him, but I can't I can't be with him I'm messed up" this self realization seems to me  a far fetched hope.

Say it isn't so! But it is. Because were we not in the r/s we would not have experienced the Disney World Miasma of BPD Lovorror Show? A tragic and very real fact. The logic which cannot be disputed.

And do remember the countless times your BPD mates accused you of Not caring? Not loving them? And how you / I tried everything under the sun to make it work? And then they either left, cheated, or we left. The delightful soul grinding abuse? The gas ighting and twisted thinking? The isolation from friends and other control tactics?

Which brings me back to: Indifference:

If for some unknown godforsaken reason I remember to give a crap, I won't call him about it.


Me too. But now both and everyone here posting knows, it's a painful, agonizing exploration of both our mentally incapacitated partners as well as ourselves, Of the two, one can change and grow, the other not. Wish them well. on grumpy days I wish he find someone like himself

Mine told me "I can't do this anymore, I don't love you!" (at the time she had already secretly hooked to another... .playing the waif once more, the spurned "wife". "I will always have a love for you... ."

BS, lady. You have no idea what love is.

I'm home with the kids this morning... .she's out looking for an apartment for a few hours. Good. Still hurts to see her every day. Made everybody breakfast, took care of the kids. The baby cried when she left... .I comforted her." Mommy's coming back... ." She stopped crying pretty quickly. Tough kid, gets it from her daddy :^)

Turkish you mentioned that your exwf is still living with you and you are dealing with this situation. I had to live with my ex also for about 2 months post-breakup and it was terrible. I'm happy to say I made it through without doing anything that she could use against me but honestly it was hard to survive. We didn't have children however so, I just wanted to take my hat off to you--damn, you sound like such a great father. and you sound like you were an amazing husband. i just, i don't know i wanted to say that b/c i know how painful it is living with someone who wants to play mind games with you and hurt you with their other relationships. Stay strong Turkish! and thanks for sharing your story

trust me, an apple pie could have enabled my ex. seriously? it's only now that i can take a full step back and a wider view of things that i realize it's quite the contrary--this may sound like a shock to some, but i truly feel as if in some ways i DISabled her more than anyone before. I got the distinct feeling from her family that they were glad we were together and that they liked me b/c i seemed to stabilize her some. While we definitely had some crazy times... .nah, i'm not going to take responsibility for her mental illness. I did play some parts in this, but it was different than your experience. In the same way you know that you were an enabler and that you were responsible for 50% of the craziness, I know otherwise. But we can still learn from each other besides these differences.

I believe you.

But BPD is not an issue, if not enabled. Because the honeymoon phase (although typical BPD) is not considered a issue during the r/s. What is often considered the traumatic part of a r/s, is the moment the nasty parts of the BPD are enabled. These things are triggered, and not by her self. If you didn't enable her BPD, the nastiness would not have arrived and you would have a calm r/s. With enabling I mean, that you are likely responsible for enabling the craziness within her. These are triggered by a partner, not by herself. 

I think with disabling you mean, letting her get crazy? Cuz then we mean the same.

I like the fact we so completely disagree on this. Majority on the L3 leaving board is x99 post, aww, everything will be fine.

Do you mean that with someone else, my ex-bf might have had a calm relationship that lasted?

I'm confused... .I thought the idea was that ALL relationships eventually and inevitably would trigger the BPD to feel controlled and threatened, causing them to turn into a neurochemical explosion as they desperately seek to protect themselves (as they see it).

Every relationship eventually and inevitably would trigger the BPD (due to the NON) to feel controlled threatened etc. Causing them indeed in a pile of apesh!t and go berserk on you.

This will happen, over and over and over and over again.

Iamdizzy this is about you, would a need to save this person sound about right? That you would never hurt her as she has been hurt in the past? Your words "it would feel like the ultimate betrayal" sound as though you dawned the knight in shining armor.


She triggered you too. She triggered a need to save by the details of a very painful event. It's great that you are looking within right here. Where do you think this need to be so loyal that you felt it would be a betrayal if you enforced boundaries to protect you started?


Coming to terms with the possibility that our partners don't feel the same way we do is hard, it hurts. Here's the good news Iamdizzy, you are grieving and working through your hurt, not masking it or avoiding it by jumping too soon into a new relationship. What you are doing instead is coping and processing your loss. A healthy thing to do. It's a process, once fully grieving this relationship and working on your own issues you will come out on the other side with a deeper understanding of your self.  

Spending ones time remaining fully focused on our exs behaviors only distracts us from working on our own behaviors. And it is our own self awareness that will ultimately keep us safe from engaging in unhealthy relationships in the future. Yes, understanding our exs and what happened is an important step in the process however it's just one step. It's an easy step to get stuck on, you are doing well by taking the next step up to focusing on you.  |iiii

i have to admit, that one (just one) of the things that get me furious about how my stbxw left is the feeling that it really will be different next time, that the next person won't see or experience what I did, that she may have learned (in some manner) from our marriage. i really do sincerely hope the next thing crashes like all her relationships before did, and like ours did.

They will.

They won't if she seeks therapy for BPD and what not.

If not, they will. If not in 6 months, than in 2 years, if not 2 years, 5 years. But it will...

It's complex. Stabilizing force due to boundaries? I was one of very few people who ever said No to my partner, his family was aware of that. At the same time, it triggered him. Define what a trigger is in a BPD? Can be anything at any given time depending on the emotional storms in their head and not related to the current reality. Black/ white thinking makes it very hard to deal with.

Having attempted to understand the reasoning and sat through many twisted Logic sessions. My 50% is due to having remained in the r/s , but the onus of the mental illness is 100% on his head.


No, it won't. And if you were to be recycled? After the honeymoon phase? It would be the same and worse.

she doesn't even know she has it. she has a therapist whom she doesn't see much and who is atrocious anyway  imo.


they're in the honeymoon phase right now (5 months along and "it's not a fling", she made a point of telling me). how long i wonder do such things last? (i much appreciate your candor incence but i'm still invested and i haven't yet absorbed that having a properly adult relationship with this person is almost certainly impossible.)

Maxen,


That may well be the hardest part. But after years of living with the dysfunction? You will know in your soul otherwise. Still hurts   Keep NC, because the longer you stay away, the calmer and stronger you will feel. It's not easy, but it does work. Keep busy and soul search what brought you together with her and when you really know the answer there, it will also free you.

And no, the pattern will repeat in the next r/s . I saw it with my partner in our hiatus years ago. The same accusation he was leveling at me, he was leveling at her. Wasn't 3 months in and he had started up.

Totally identify with and fully agree with the above,especially the stuff in red.

Well put Incense!

I resonate with this board of messages.  My ex wife once said "I don't feel the same about you anymore."  At the time she was already sleeping with at least one other man (I found out later) and planning her eventual flight.  However, not long after that she recanted and said that she didn't mean what she said, that she still loved me, and wanted to work things out... . And, of course, not long after that she said, "I don't want to be with you!"  That was when I busted her with her new guy.  She would bite back hard when she was on the defense.  You all know the pattern... .push, pull, push, pull... . We separated to cool off.  That was over a year ago and she has since tried to recycle me again... .until she met the young guy with the motorcycle.  

No more for me!  I have stepped off the "Tilt a' Whirl."  :)ivorce is in process.  I am still in deep pain, and pondering how she could so easily cast me aside... . I understand, intellectually, the patterns of BPD, and she is a predictable "textbook case."  But it still feels like pure rejection from a woman with whom I spent over 25 years.  

I will note that she began the on/off adulterous flings twelve years ago.  I continued to take her back, only to be spurned again and again.  Why?  That is what my therapist and I are working on now.  It is one thing to be forgiving, which I am.  But my ex took advantage of my grace and trampled me. I can still forgive her, which I do, but I will do it from a safe distance.  The difficult, painful and courageous inner work that we "nons" must now do will pay off in the long run.  God willing.  

Fiddle

True that goldy.

Devaluation from a non's perspective would mean emotional indifference toward them/being done with them forever and no going back no matter how hard they try to recycle.

So it is a closure of sorts for our own emotional realm which speeds up the process of healing and detachment.

Mine said that... .but also "I will always have a love for you though... ." which somehow hurt worse. WTH does that mean (to her)?

Mine once told me, in a moment of clarity, was that when she was angry and depressed, that she lashed out because she wanted everyone else to feel her pain. Interesting insight.

It is funny, but I'm going away with my son for my birthday weekend. She asked me today if I still planned to go. I replied, "of course, I certainly don't want to be here," with a bit of bitterness added for good measure. She actually gave me a quiet, "sorry... ."

Yes, I want her to feel MY pain, at least as much as she is capable.

|iiii


My partner admitted to holding on to what he perceived as a slight, to lash out at a later time, to make me feel his pain.

Sick. He knows what he is doing. In his case, it's deliberate.

I smiled.

I remember her telling me... .

NO MORE (insert her name) EVER FOR YOU MISTER!

two weeks later ... an email ... nothing in the mail ... just the topic title ...

Hiiiiiiiiii ... how are you doing? How is life treating you?

... .

A little bit later ...

... .

Hope we can be friends! I want to be friends!

How old is she? 7?

Quite a bit older.

Mine said the followinG(have posted this on other threads,re-stating )

-It was never a relationship

-I never wanted to come close to you

-I never felt anything for you

-Don't ever touch me again,it is wrong for me now that I am not a kid.

The ones in bold stung deep.

I cried all night,almost starved myself for a week and these words played in my mind like a broken record till I realized the intent behind them.More than the need to sting,these words stem from the need to go back to emotional safety.The harshness is merely a tactic to achieve that end.

It was this realization that helped me to let go and move on.

How does that equate to emotional safety? Aren't they these black voids? And it's all the push / pull fear of abandonment and the Self Fulfilling prophecy?

In the BPD / Non r/s the emotional safety is compromised from the perspective of the Non has been my experience.

:)




1 month no see, 3 weeks no email. yes it's hard but i'm sticking to it.


ok, good.

Getting this thread back on course... .these are great questions Iamdizzy.

Yes thank you suzn!

I hope I can squeeze In a few more posts about the subject before my post gets locked.

I try as often as possible to think about how I  will be different so I won't get caught up in this again.

I want to know why I stayed, why i, despite her behavior, stayed. Was it because she was raped and that alone tore down any boundary I had, is it something else? Deeply ingrained in me?

What can I do to make ME to move on from her?

How do I stop missing her?the more I think about her, as time passes, I panic because I'm still thinkin about her. I have some Sort of imaginary clock in my head that makes me think after x amount of time, I need to stop thinking about her and my feelings will go away.

No worries Iamdizzy, you can start a new thread once this one reaches the full 4 page mark.


It is great to self analyze. We all evolve over time, the more we know about ourselves the more we can ascertain about another. It's an interesting side effect of self awareness.


When someone idolizes you it feels good. It speaks to our self worth and makes us feel worthy. Did you feel a need to make her life better? Did this need to make her life better give your life purpose?


First of all Iamdizzy you are being really hard on yourself. You are an individual and your grieving is yours and you will be done with your grief when you are done. There is no time frame that fits everyone. Go easy on you here.

Typically we fall in love with the person we think they are. An image of the "perfect" partner and realistically there is no such thing as a perfect partner, everyone has flaws. In other words, you are focusing on the good stuff. Integrating the good behaviors with the not so good behaviors makes her who she was/is.

That goes the same for us. We tend to focus on how great we were "I always did this or that for her, why did things go so wrong?" The great things we did triggered the fears in our exs. That is the disorder. We in turn may have had some not so good behaviors that inflamed their fears.

For me, my ex and her children triggered my need for a "family", the one I never had. The desire for the concept of a nuclear family was deeply ingrained in me. It gave me purpose once I had it.

Questioning ourselves and outright having conversations with ourselves with an open mind about what we got, the payoff, from all of our relationships helps us to look within at what's missing in our lives. What was missing for you? What void did she fill for you?

Suzn,

I had a hellish weekend as I realized why I stayed and the issues I had.

However, I'm taking it with positive strides as I am a capable human being who is able to confront those feelings. I have suited up and mounted my horse and I'm going to charge head on.

I hope one day suzn, if our paths ever cross, I just hope I can tell her these words

Thanks, you tore open primal wounds in me. I charged head first into them to confront them. Because I want to be better. And because I don't want to be like you. I don't want to suppress. I want to fix and heal myself.