please help me out, how do you deal with their indifference towards us?

[hopealways]

Thank you Ironmanfalls for your insight.

[Suzn]

He tried to get through with the usual, emotional blackmail, FOG and all the other weapons of choice.

FOG is not a weapon used by pwBPD. FOG is about us, this has nothing to do with a person wBPD. FOG is about our own lack of boundaries or our lack in enforcing them.

F-Fear... .our fear to enforce our own boundaries

O-Obligation... .the obligation we feel to others

G-Guilt... .our feelings of guilt if we do set boundaries

A pwBPD has a disorder, a mental disorder, they are not generally malicious. The behaviors of a pwBPD that seem malicious to us are coping techniques for them. If a healthy person were to do things spoken of here, that would be malicious.

[goldylamont]

He tried to get through with the usual, emotional blackmail, FOG and all the other weapons of choice.

FOG is not a weapon used by pwBPD. FOG is about us, this has nothing to do with a person wBPD. FOG is about our own lack of boundaries or our lack in enforcing them.

F-Fear... .our fear to enforce our own boundaries

O-Obligation... .the obligation we feel to others

G-Guilt... .our feelings of guilt if we do set boundaries

A pwBPD has a disorder, a mental disorder, they are not generally malicious. The behaviors of a pwBPD that seem malicious to us are coping techniques for them. If a healthy person were to do things spoken of here, that would be malicious.

i agree with you on the FOG. however i think we have to be fair and say that different people undergo different things from their ex. it sounds like your BPD (ex?) isn't the malicious type. and that's really cool, i've heard many here say that their ex's weren't malicious. but, on the same token, mine was. she took joy in causing emotional harm to others (not just me, many others). now, i do believe she is mentally unhealthy, but that doesn't mean that her behavior isn't malicious at times. there were plenty of times when she wasn't malicious though, quite the opposite, however i don't think that just because someone has BPD they get a pass and that anything they do cannot be seen as being cruel or malicious. very true it is a coping mechanism, or a bad habit, but i think it's important to just understand the actions for what they are. and sometimes they are malicious. if we think of many terrible things that humans do--murder, rape, lying, etc.--much of this can be explained away by the person being mentally unhealthy, however the actions themselves are still malicious in my opinion.

i can see my ex's behavior as malicious and this doesn't in any way stop my healing. it may have started at finger pointing at some point, but also it's just acceptance that this is who this person is. i totally understand the need to look at oneself and to not only make a monster of your ex. completely agree with this. however i'm also done with not trusting my gut instincts about the intentions from this unhealthy person. if i feel like they are being cruel, then most likely they are. i'm learning to trust this instinct more and more and i feel this is healthy.

[Suzn]

i can see my ex's behavior as malicious and this doesn't in any way stop my healing. it may have started at finger pointing at some point, but also it's just acceptance that this is who this person is.

We could discuss all the terrible things that happened in our relationships all day long but I don't care to do that. Why? Because that would simply be co-ruminating and it would keep me stuck in the past. My acceptance comes with the fact that I played an equal role in the emotional immaturity of this relationship. I was in a relationship with a disordered person and I, myself, pointed many a finger. I was in a relationship with someone who mirrored me, it was a fantasy. My self worth was so low that I ignored flags and I put myself in harms way.  

Had I had good, healthy boundaries I would have exited at the first sign of unhealthy behaviors.

When you point a finger at someone else, never lose site of the fact that three are pointing back at you.

if i feel like they are being cruel, then most likely they are. i'm learning to trust this instinct more and more and i feel this is healthy.

Trusting your gut instincts are good to a point. Logically, would you "feel" a 4 year old throwing a toy at you when not getting their way cruel? Of course not, you would likely see this as a temper tantrum and expect it since a 4 year old has not developed coping skills to deal with their emotions. Emotionally, a pwBPD is generally around the age of 4.

[Century2012]

I can not imagine the pain to hear those words ... .I am so sorry for you.

I too feel used and discarded.

But my primary feeling right now is a combination of anger and shame. Angry that I have "wasted" months crying over this person who is happy as can be without me. And shame ... .I am embarrassed that I cared so much for him. I saw what I wanted to see. I saw the red flags. I rationalized ... .MY BAD.

[Ironmanrises]

Hope... .

Welcome.


Century... .

Your ex only appears to be happy.

They do an excellent job... .

Of portraying that.

That is a way for them... .

To fool others(the enablers)... .

And to hurt us... .

All in one fell swoop.

I saw the red flags too... .

And I ignored them as well.

I am currently... .

Repairing the damage... .

In the aftermath.

I know the shame you feel.

Hang in there Century.

[goldylamont]

i can see my ex's behavior as malicious and this doesn't in any way stop my healing. it may have started at finger pointing at some point, but also it's just acceptance that this is who this person is.

We could discuss all the terrible things that happened in our relationships all day long but I don't care to do that.

perhaps because you already have? you have several thousand posts (thank you for this!) which leads me to believe perhaps you are at a later stage of understanding than many others. venting to me is one of the first steps of recovery. of course you don't want to get stuck there, but for someone in the beginning stages of recovery i think it's unfair to say "don't talk about them at all, it's pointless, it's only about you". i think it's natural to vent, especially in the beginning, even if you are doing tons of self reflection. this is all a natural part of understanding the totality of who this person is and who you are.

i am admitting to minor finger pointing on my part only so that i stay self aware, but trust this isn't my MO, i do tons of self reflection and have gone through tremendous growth i feel.

My acceptance comes with the fact that I played an equal role in the emotional immaturity of this relationship.

it's good that you have found this out for yourself, that you shared equally in the emotional immaturity. however i think it's good to stay open minded and know that others like myself, don't feel in the least like we played an equal role in the emotional immaturity of the relationship. i can look at all of my r/s both previous and after this and see that they were much different, much healthier. i had issues in my r/s with BPDx, yes, but the same type of issues i've had in others. and these are things i'm still learning from. however i feel after all this time out of the r/s i can say that the majority of the crazy making was on her. sorry, but the wild and crazy just wasn't 50% me. although i was naive often, i did have many a boundary pushed and/or broken... .ultimately i learned a lot about humanity and myself. and i'm wiser now to recognize the signs and see what people are capable of. but it would be untruthful in my situation to try and accept 50% of the blame as you have.

Had I had good, healthy boundaries I would have exited at the first sign of unhealthy behaviors.

i'd like to respectfully disagree with this point. i do think there is some truth in it. however even someone with healthy boundaries can let them bend or be bruised when they are confused. or when they are in love. or when they're being plain stupid   i hear this quote over and over, but have you ever asked someone who feels that they generally have healthy boundaries how they feel? i did leave, but it wasn't at the first sign, hell i didn't even know what the signs were at the time. i stayed until i found out enough and then i left... .then the isht hit the fan so to speak   please laugh with me i'm laughing at myself.

if i feel like they are being cruel, then most likely they are. i'm learning to trust this instinct more and more and i feel this is healthy.

Trusting your gut instincts are good to a point. Logically, would you "feel" a 4 year old throwing a toy at you when not getting their way cruel? Of course not, you would likely see this as a temper tantrum and expect it since a 4 year old has not developed coping skills to deal with their emotions. Emotionally, a pwBPD is generally around the age of 4.

true, a 4 year old throwing a toy isn't cruel. how about some other stories we all know about though? how about grown man holding a knife to his gf stomach as a "joke". how about a grown woman trying to convince her child that her father sexually molested her, just to try to get back at him. no regard for the child or for him. false charges of domestic violence. smear campaigns. cheating whilst lying and saying you want to be with someone forever. true a pwBPD is emotionally immature, but at the same time they are adults, many know good and well right from wrong, and obviously from participation here their behavior is more devastating than that of a 4 year old with a temper tantrum. the analogy i think is a good one perhaps for their mental maturity, but their adult behaviors are much more damaging.

i trust my gut because it was invaluable in saving me so much pain and anguish, especially during the end and after my r/s ended. my gut was telling me all sorts of things that i didn't want to believe, but once i acted on these feelings i was able to see my exgf true nature and i feel was able to protect myself much better than if i had ignored these feelings. time and again after acting on my gut feeling, i'd see things play out and show me that my instincts were true. sometimes i can be oversensitive but to be honest i would be lost without this connection to myself. i want to let others know that if you are having any sort of communication with your ex, and you end up feeling terrible and as if they are trying to hurt you--guess what, it's true, they are. irregardless of what they think or feel, you have to trust your own instincts in this matter and this will help you set those boundaries and be less open to being hurt again.

[HarmKrakow]

it's good that you have found this out for yourself, that you shared equally in the emotional immaturity. however i think it's good to stay open minded and know that others like myself, don't feel in the least like we played an equal role in the emotional immaturity of the relationship. i can look at all of my r/s both previous and after this and see that they were much different, much healthier. i had issues in my r/s with BPDx, yes, but the same type of issues i've had in others. and these are things i'm still learning from. however i feel after all this time out of the r/s i can say that the majority of the crazy making was on her. sorry, but the wild and crazy just wasn't 50% me. although i was naive often, i did have many a boundary pushed and/or broken... .ultimately i learned a lot about humanity and myself. and i'm wiser now to recognize the signs and see what people are capable of. but it would be untruthful in my situation to try and accept 50% of the blame as you have.

You enabled her. Your behavior enabled her crazymaking. You played a part in this dance, which makes it 50/50.

[dansure]

Mine actually told me, "I feel indifferent towards you.  I don't care about you anymore.  I feel nothing for you.  You don't matter to me at all and I don't care what happens to you."

I got that too. "I don't care about what happens to you, I just don't want to hear from you ever again".

How do deal with it? I just think Fu** u! A person who talks to me in that way shortly after we break up doesn't even deserve that I am sad for her. Rather than getting depressed over that statement it helps me to not think about her too much or miss her.

It also proves that all this "I can't imagine living without you" and "I love you a little more than you love me" was just crap.

Ofc it hurt me as well when I heard it from her the first time. But now looking back it just proofs me that she wasn't the right one.

[Iamdizzy]

I realized that I stayed during her outbreaks. She often tell me when she would put her mask on "babe thank you so much for dealing with me I love you" but then repeat her behavior over and over. I stayed because I was a little naive idiot. I usually have strong boundaries and when a girl acts bat___ crazy I tell them they, there's the door, aud weidersehen!.  This one however, told me elaborate stories of her rape, abusive boyfriends, messed up childhood. By the 4th month I wanted to run away and the more I though about just leaving the more I thought about her getting raped, since she provided me with word by word play and graphic detail on the matter. I felt like that would be the ultimate betrayal.

Some of you mentioned that some may have malicious intent. In my case, yes, my BPDex used her rape to manipulate me. She would say words that would, as ironman would say, rip off my suit. Soul stabbing words followed by "babe sorry, be patient, this is the time I was raped". She knew how to play with me. If we had a great week, she often state, we needed this we really did. I love you and then say something to cause an argument.

All these things show a lack of respect for myself from her and myself. Something I need to improve, why couldn't I tell her to shove off? But I could to other women who were crazy?

I want to know that all this pain she caused (yes partly because I stayed) at least as disordered as she may be and how elaborate her mask may be, has some sort of "I miss him, I messed up, I'm chaotic, but I will always having something for him, but I can't I can't be with him I'm messed up" this self realization seems to me  a far fetched hope.

[DragoN]

You enabled her. Your behavior enabled her crazymaking. You played a part in this dance, which makes it 50/50.

Say it isn't so! But it is. Because were we not in the r/s we would not have experienced the Disney World Miasma of BPD Lovorror Show? A tragic and very real fact. The logic which cannot be disputed.

And do remember the countless times your BPD mates accused you of Not caring? Not loving them? And how you / I tried everything under the sun to make it work? And then they either left, cheated, or we left. The delightful soul grinding abuse? The gas ighting and twisted thinking? The isolation from friends and other control tactics?

Which brings me back to: Indifference:

If for some unknown godforsaken reason I remember to give a crap, I won't call him about it.

I stayed because I was a little naive idiot.

Me too. But now both and everyone here posting knows, it's a painful, agonizing exploration of both our mentally incapacitated partners as well as ourselves, Of the two, one can change and grow, the other not. Wish them well. on grumpy days I wish he find someone like himself

[Turkish]

Mine actually told me, "I feel indifferent towards you.  I don't care about you anymore.  I feel nothing for you.  You don't matter to me at all and I don't care what happens to you."

How did I deal with that?

Tears!  Lots of tears!  And panic attacks.  Those words... .and the words, "I don't love you anymore," really hurt me.  I know that was the point.  She was discarding me and trying to cause me as much pain as possible.  It worked.

Mine told me "I can't do this anymore, I don't love you!" (at the time she had already secretly hooked to another... .playing the waif once more, the spurned "wife". "I will always have a love for you... ."

BS, lady. You have no idea what love is.

I'm home with the kids this morning... .she's out looking for an apartment for a few hours. Good. Still hurts to see her every day. Made everybody breakfast, took care of the kids. The baby cried when she left... .I comforted her." Mommy's coming back... ." She stopped crying pretty quickly. Tough kid, gets it from her daddy :^)

[goldylamont]

Mine told me "I can't do this anymore, I don't love you!" (at the time she had already secretly hooked to another... .playing the waif once more, the spurned "wife". "I will always have a love for you... ."

BS, lady. You have no idea what love is.

I'm home with the kids this morning... .she's out looking for an apartment for a few hours. Good. Still hurts to see her every day. Made everybody breakfast, took care of the kids. The baby cried when she left... .I comforted her." Mommy's coming back... ." She stopped crying pretty quickly. Tough kid, gets it from her daddy :^)

Turkish you mentioned that your exwf is still living with you and you are dealing with this situation. I had to live with my ex also for about 2 months post-breakup and it was terrible. I'm happy to say I made it through without doing anything that she could use against me but honestly it was hard to survive. We didn't have children however so, I just wanted to take my hat off to you--damn, you sound like such a great father. and you sound like you were an amazing husband. i just, i don't know i wanted to say that b/c i know how painful it is living with someone who wants to play mind games with you and hurt you with their other relationships. Stay strong Turkish! and thanks for sharing your story

[goldylamont]

it's good that you have found this out for yourself, that you shared equally in the emotional immaturity. however i think it's good to stay open minded and know that others like myself, don't feel in the least like we played an equal role in the emotional immaturity of the relationship. i can look at all of my r/s both previous and after this and see that they were much different, much healthier. i had issues in my r/s with BPDx, yes, but the same type of issues i've had in others. and these are things i'm still learning from. however i feel after all this time out of the r/s i can say that the majority of the crazy making was on her. sorry, but the wild and crazy just wasn't 50% me. although i was naive often, i did have many a boundary pushed and/or broken... .ultimately i learned a lot about humanity and myself. and i'm wiser now to recognize the signs and see what people are capable of. but it would be untruthful in my situation to try and accept 50% of the blame as you have.

You enabled her. Your behavior enabled her crazymaking. You played a part in this dance, which makes it 50/50.

trust me, an apple pie could have enabled my ex. seriously? it's only now that i can take a full step back and a wider view of things that i realize it's quite the contrary--this may sound like a shock to some, but i truly feel as if in some ways i DISabled her more than anyone before. I got the distinct feeling from her family that they were glad we were together and that they liked me b/c i seemed to stabilize her some. While we definitely had some crazy times... .nah, i'm not going to take responsibility for her mental illness. I did play some parts in this, but it was different than your experience. In the same way you know that you were an enabler and that you were responsible for 50% of the craziness, I know otherwise. But we can still learn from each other besides these differences.

[HarmKrakow]

it's good that you have found this out for yourself, that you shared equally in the emotional immaturity. however i think it's good to stay open minded and know that others like myself, don't feel in the least like we played an equal role in the emotional immaturity of the relationship. i can look at all of my r/s both previous and after this and see that they were much different, much healthier. i had issues in my r/s with BPDx, yes, but the same type of issues i've had in others. and these are things i'm still learning from. however i feel after all this time out of the r/s i can say that the majority of the crazy making was on her. sorry, but the wild and crazy just wasn't 50% me. although i was naive often, i did have many a boundary pushed and/or broken... .ultimately i learned a lot about humanity and myself. and i'm wiser now to recognize the signs and see what people are capable of. but it would be untruthful in my situation to try and accept 50% of the blame as you have.

You enabled her. Your behavior enabled her crazymaking. You played a part in this dance, which makes it 50/50.

trust me, an apple pie could have enabled my ex. seriously? it's only now that i can take a full step back and a wider view of things that i realize it's quite the contrary--this may sound like a shock to some, but i truly feel as if in some ways i DISabled her more than anyone before. I got the distinct feeling from her family that they were glad we were together and that they liked me b/c i seemed to stabilize her some. While we definitely had some crazy times... .nah, i'm not going to take responsibility for her mental illness. I did play some parts in this, but it was different than your experience. In the same way you know that you were an enabler and that you were responsible for 50% of the craziness, I know otherwise. But we can still learn from each other besides these differences.

I believe you.

But BPD is not an issue, if not enabled. Because the honeymoon phase (although typical BPD) is not considered a issue during the r/s. What is often considered the traumatic part of a r/s, is the moment the nasty parts of the BPD are enabled. These things are triggered, and not by her self. If you didn't enable her BPD, the nastiness would not have arrived and you would have a calm r/s. With enabling I mean, that you are likely responsible for enabling the craziness within her. These are triggered by a partner, not by herself. 

I think with disabling you mean, letting her get crazy? Cuz then we mean the same.

I like the fact we so completely disagree on this. Majority on the L3 leaving board is x99 post, aww, everything will be fine.

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

But BPD is not an issue, if not enabled. Because the honeymoon phase (although typical BPD) is not considered a issue during the r/s. What is often considered the traumatic part of a r/s, is the moment the nasty parts of the BPD are enabled. These things are triggered, and not by her self. If you didn't enable her BPD, the nastiness would not have arrived and you would have a calm r/s. With enabling I mean, that you are likely responsible for enabling the craziness within her. These are triggered by a partner, not by herself. 

Do you mean that with someone else, my ex-bf might have had a calm relationship that lasted?

I'm confused... .I thought the idea was that ALL relationships eventually and inevitably would trigger the BPD to feel controlled and threatened, causing them to turn into a neurochemical explosion as they desperately seek to protect themselves (as they see it).

[HarmKrakow]

But BPD is not an issue, if not enabled. Because the honeymoon phase (although typical BPD) is not considered a issue during the r/s. What is often considered the traumatic part of a r/s, is the moment the nasty parts of the BPD are enabled. These things are triggered, and not by her self. If you didn't enable her BPD, the nastiness would not have arrived and you would have a calm r/s. With enabling I mean, that you are likely responsible for enabling the craziness within her. These are triggered by a partner, not by herself. 

Do you mean that with someone else, my ex-bf might have had a calm relationship that lasted?

I'm confused... .I thought the idea was that ALL relationships eventually and inevitably would trigger the BPD to feel controlled and threatened, causing them to turn into a neurochemical explosion as they desperately seek to protect themselves (as they see it).

Every relationship eventually and inevitably would trigger the BPD (due to the NON) to feel controlled threatened etc. Causing them indeed in a pile of apesh!t and go berserk on you.

This will happen, over and over and over and over again.

[Suzn]

By the 4th month I wanted to run away and the more I though about just leaving the more I thought about her getting raped, since she provided me with word by word play and graphic detail on the matter. I felt like that would be the ultimate betrayal.

Iamdizzy this is about you, would a need to save this person sound about right? That you would never hurt her as she has been hurt in the past? Your words "it would feel like the ultimate betrayal" sound as though you dawned the knight in shining armor.

All these things show a lack of respect for myself from her and myself. Something I need to improve, why couldn't I tell her to shove off? But I could to other women who were crazy?

She triggered you too. She triggered a need to save by the details of a very painful event. It's great that you are looking within right here. Where do you think this need to be so loyal that you felt it would be a betrayal if you enforced boundaries to protect you started?

I want to know that all this pain she caused (yes partly because I stayed) at least as disordered as she may be and how elaborate her mask may be, has some sort of "I miss him, I messed up, I'm chaotic, but I will always having something for him, but I can't I can't be with him I'm messed up" this self realization seems to me  a far fetched hope.

Coming to terms with the possibility that our partners don't feel the same way we do is hard, it hurts. Here's the good news Iamdizzy, you are grieving and working through your hurt, not masking it or avoiding it by jumping too soon into a new relationship. What you are doing instead is coping and processing your loss. A healthy thing to do. It's a process, once fully grieving this relationship and working on your own issues you will come out on the other side with a deeper understanding of your self.  

Spending ones time remaining fully focused on our exs behaviors only distracts us from working on our own behaviors. And it is our own self awareness that will ultimately keep us safe from engaging in unhealthy relationships in the future. Yes, understanding our exs and what happened is an important step in the process however it's just one step. It's an easy step to get stuck on, you are doing well by taking the next step up to focusing on you.  

[maxen]

I thought the idea was that ALL relationships eventually and inevitably would trigger the BPD to feel controlled and threatened, causing them to turn into a neurochemical explosion as they desperately seek to protect themselves (as they see it).

i have to admit, that one (just one) of the things that get me furious about how my stbxw left is the feeling that it really will be different next time, that the next person won't see or experience what I did, that she may have learned (in some manner) from our marriage. i really do sincerely hope the next thing crashes like all her relationships before did, and like ours did.

[HarmKrakow]

I thought the idea was that ALL relationships eventually and inevitably would trigger the BPD to feel controlled and threatened, causing them to turn into a neurochemical explosion as they desperately seek to protect themselves (as they see it).

i have to admit, that one (just one) of the things that get me furious about how my stbxw left is the feeling that it really will be different next time, that the next person won't see or experience what I did, that she may have learned (in some manner) from our marriage. i really do sincerely hope the next thing crashes like all her relationships before did, and like ours did.

They will.

They won't if she seeks therapy for BPD and what not.

If not, they will. If not in 6 months, than in 2 years, if not 2 years, 5 years. But it will...

[DragoN]

trust me, an apple pie could have enabled my ex. seriously? it's only now that i can take a full step back and a wider view of things that i realize it's quite the contrary--this may sound like a shock to some, but i truly feel as if in some ways i DISabled her more than anyone before. I got the distinct feeling from her family that they were glad we were together and that they liked me b/c i seemed to stabilize her some. While we definitely had some crazy times... .nah, i'm not going to take responsibility for her mental illness. I did play some parts in this, but it was different than your experience. In the same way you know that you were an enabler and that you were responsible for 50% of the craziness, I know otherwise. But we can still learn from each other besides these differences.

It's complex. Stabilizing force due to boundaries? I was one of very few people who ever said No to my partner, his family was aware of that. At the same time, it triggered him. Define what a trigger is in a BPD? Can be anything at any given time depending on the emotional storms in their head and not related to the current reality. Black/ white thinking makes it very hard to deal with.

Having attempted to understand the reasoning and sat through many twisted Logic sessions. My 50% is due to having remained in the r/s , but the onus of the mental illness is 100% on his head.

i have to admit, that one (just one) of the things that get me furious about how my stbxw left is the feeling that it really will be different next time,

No, it won't. And if you were to be recycled? After the honeymoon phase? It would be the same and worse.

[maxen]

They won't if she seeks therapy for BPD and what not.

she doesn't even know she has it. she has a therapist whom she doesn't see much and who is atrocious anyway  imo.

i have to admit, that one (just one) of the things that get me furious about how my stbxw left is the feeling that it really will be different next time,

No, it won't. And if you were to be recycled? After the honeymoon phase? It would be the same and worse.

they're in the honeymoon phase right now (5 months along and "it's not a fling", she made a point of telling me). how long i wonder do such things last? (i much appreciate your candor incence but i'm still invested and i haven't yet absorbed that having a properly adult relationship with this person is almost certainly impossible.)

[DragoN]

Maxen,

they're in the honeymoon phase right now (5 months along and "it's not a fling", she made a point of telling me). how long i wonder do such things last? (i much appreciate your candor incence but i'm still invested and i haven't yet absorbed that having a properly adult relationship with this person is almost certainly impossible.)

That may well be the hardest part. But after years of living with the dysfunction? You will know in your soul otherwise. Still hurts   Keep NC, because the longer you stay away, the calmer and stronger you will feel. It's not easy, but it does work. Keep busy and soul search what brought you together with her and when you really know the answer there, it will also free you.

And no, the pattern will repeat in the next r/s . I saw it with my partner in our hiatus years ago. The same accusation he was leveling at me, he was leveling at her. Wasn't 3 months in and he had started up.

[saw_tooth]

The Love I once felt, slowly and painfully died

BPD do not and cannot comprehend reciprocity. They can mime and mimic the concept in an abstract sense, but in a one on one they cannot do it. I will not flatter myself with the thought that my partner loved, he cannot. He hates himself. He cannot love another, he can take pride in the accomplishments of his children as they are a reflection of himself in his mind. But to love and empathize? That would be a rarity.

Totally identify with and fully agree with the above,especially the stuff in red.

Well put Incense!

[fiddlestix]

I resonate with this board of messages.  My ex wife once said "I don't feel the same about you anymore."  At the time she was already sleeping with at least one other man (I found out later) and planning her eventual flight.  However, not long after that she recanted and said that she didn't mean what she said, that she still loved me, and wanted to work things out... . And, of course, not long after that she said, "I don't want to be with you!"  That was when I busted her with her new guy.  She would bite back hard when she was on the defense.  You all know the pattern... .push, pull, push, pull... . We separated to cool off.  That was over a year ago and she has since tried to recycle me again... .until she met the young guy with the motorcycle.  

No more for me!  I have stepped off the "Tilt a' Whirl."  :)ivorce is in process.  I am still in deep pain, and pondering how she could so easily cast me aside... . I understand, intellectually, the patterns of BPD, and she is a predictable "textbook case."  But it still feels like pure rejection from a woman with whom I spent over 25 years.  

I will note that she began the on/off adulterous flings twelve years ago.  I continued to take her back, only to be spurned again and again.  Why?  That is what my therapist and I are working on now.  It is one thing to be forgiving, which I am.  But my ex took advantage of my grace and trampled me. I can still forgive her, which I do, but I will do it from a safe distance.  The difficult, painful and courageous inner work that we "nons" must now do will pay off in the long run.  God willing.  

Fiddle

[saw_tooth]

i guess what i'm saying is that yes it does hurt to be devalued not only so fast, but usually with malicious intent. i think it's important to know that we also have the power to fully devalue them over time[/color], even if slower. because slower means that we are actually *dealing* with our feelings, so it's more real. besides, when we're done devaluing them it will be done with so much more class and tact  

True that goldy.

Devaluation from a non's perspective would mean emotional indifference toward them/being done with them forever and no going back no matter how hard they try to recycle.

So it is a closure of sorts for our own emotional realm which speeds up the process of healing and detachment.

[Turkish]

Tears!  Lots of tears!  And panic attacks.  Those words... .and the words, "I don't love you anymore," really hurt me.  I know that was the point.  She was discarding me and trying to cause me as much pain as possible.  It worked.

Mine said that... .but also "I will always have a love for you though... ." which somehow hurt worse. WTH does that mean (to her)?

Mine once told me, in a moment of clarity, was that when she was angry and depressed, that she lashed out because she wanted everyone else to feel her pain. Interesting insight.

It is funny, but I'm going away with my son for my birthday weekend. She asked me today if I still planned to go. I replied, "of course, I certainly don't want to be here," with a bit of bitterness added for good measure. She actually gave me a quiet, "sorry... ."

Yes, I want her to feel MY pain, at least as much as she is capable.

[DragoN]

Devaluation from a non's perspective would mean emotional indifference toward them/being done with them forever and no going back no matter how hard they try to recycle.

So it is a closure of sorts for our own emotional realm which speeds up the process of healing and detachment.

Mine once told me, in a moment of clarity, was that when she was angry and depressed, that she lashed out because she wanted everyone else to feel her pain. Interesting insight.

My partner admitted to holding on to what he perceived as a slight, to lash out at a later time, to make me feel his pain.

Sick. He knows what he is doing. In his case, it's deliberate.

[HarmKrakow]

Tears!  Lots of tears!  And panic attacks.  Those words... .and the words, "I don't love you anymore," really hurt me.  I know that was the point.  She was discarding me and trying to cause me as much pain as possible.  It worked.

Mine said that... .but also "I will always have a love for you though... ." which somehow hurt worse. WTH does that mean (to her)?

Mine once told me, in a moment of clarity, was that when she was angry and depressed, that she lashed out because she wanted everyone else to feel her pain. Interesting insight.

It is funny, but I'm going away with my son for my birthday weekend. She asked me today if I still planned to go. I replied, "of course, I certainly don't want to be here," with a bit of bitterness added for good measure. She actually gave me a quiet, "sorry... ."

Yes, I want her to feel MY pain, at least as much as she is capable.

I smiled.

I remember her telling me... .

NO MORE (insert her name) EVER FOR YOU MISTER!

two weeks later ... an email ... nothing in the mail ... just the topic title ...

Hiiiiiiiiii ... how are you doing? How is life treating you?

... .

A little bit later ...

... .

Hope we can be friends! I want to be friends!

[DragoN]

How old is she? 7?