BPDFamily.com

Ok... . So, I got an email response from my ex and my request that she no longer contact me. I did it more for me than for her. To redraw the boundary in my own mind. Was pleasantly surprised she did not respond. But then I got an email back. I know... . I should have deleted... . but curiosity got the best of me.  I didn't think I was asking a question here. Is this crazy? Here is how it went down:

My email to her:

Dear uBPDxgf,

I really appreciate your offer of friendship and I'm flattered. I understand that having friends is a really great thing and I hope you have many great and fulfilling friendships. I know that it isn't your intention to hurt me when you contact me but that is the result. I have been in an incredible amount of pain since we spoke and it really isn't healthy for me. I hope you understand. The greatest show of friendship from you would be to stop contacting me. I know you aren't trying to hurt me intentionally but being continually contacted is affecting my health and wellbeing. A great act of friendship would be to no longer contact me, including a response to this email. That would mean a lot to me. I wish you all the best things and continued success.

All my best,

Willy45

Her Email (which I just got today):

Hi Willy45,

I got your email and I understand. But, after a lot of thought -- the answer is no -- I'm not going to stop being in contact. Life is too short to live with regret, and I would deeply regret not having you in my life in some form. I don't discount that it would be hard for us, but that doesn't make it not worth trying. I'm sorry you've been struggling. I know that eventually things will heal and I am confident that there will be a time when we are able to talk and laugh again. I hope that you have a lovely Easter today and are taking good care.

Lots of love,

Yep.

That is harassment. Don't delete it. You might need evidence later on.

Doesn't this level of craziness make you detach somewhat? Does it make you angry? Or what do you feel?

To be blunt, you brought it on yourself.  You know that.  Asking someone not to contact you by contacting them is counterproductive.  You will eventually take control of your life or you won't, but you are the only one who can.  Ignore, delete, don't read, don't reply, change phone numbers, block texts, whatever, it's not complicated.  How bad do you want it?

Yes Willy save it in case. In my opinion it is good you read it so now you know what to expect and how to best watch your back and who she really is -> a sick person, sadistic also?

Yeah. I'm keeping this one for sure.

Yes. I agree that not responding is the best tactic. But, as I said, I needed to redraw the line for myself. I had done this before and basically sent a similar email in the past. I answered one of her text a few weeks ago after months and ignoring and deleting. And I was worried that I had re-opened the floodgates (which I did). This was my bad for sure. I should not have not responded to the text. The email I sent was not for her. But for me. So I could be very clear in my mind again that the boundary was drawn.

What surprised me is not that she emailed back. Of course she would. Any normal human would. I think a human with some kind of empathetic capacity would say: I'm so sorry. I won't do it again. My apologies for upsetting you. I will not contact you again.

What is freaky about this is that is nowhere in the email. 'Sorry you are struggling'. Really? I don't think she's sorry at all. I think she is thrilled. I think she actually likes hurting me. And 'the answer is -no-' What the heck. FOR REALS? I don't think there was a question in there.

And yes. New phone number is for sure now in order. I guess I thought this email might have done the trick. So, the only thing I need to worry about is email (GMAIL doesn't auto delete anything) so I will need to stay on guard for that. Hopefully she just texts me and then won't get a response and will continue down that path.

How badly do I want out? I have no idea. Honestly, I feel broken down and beat up and lost. I don't really care anymore. This has been going on way too long. It just sucks because we all have up days and down days. And every few months, she catches me on a low and I give in. That is ___ty. What I need to do is rid myself of any way she can contact me. That way I don't have to worry all the time if I hit a low period that she will catch me on it.

I really appreciate your offer of friendship and I'm flattered. I understand that having friends is a really great thing and I hope you have many great and fulfilling friendships. I know that it isn't your intention to hurt me when you contact me but that is the result. I have been in an incredible amount of pain since we spoke and it really isn't healthy for me. I hope you understand. The greatest show of friendship from you would be to stop contacting me. I know you aren't trying to hurt me intentionally but being continually contacted is affecting my health and wellbeing. A great act of friendship would be to no longer contact me, including a response to this email. That would mean a lot to me. I wish you all the best things and continued success.

You tell us that you think she likes hurting you, yet you told her I know that it isn't your intention to hurt me.  Which one is it, or did you lie to her?  In any case, your email reads like you wanted a response, along with validation and acceptance of responsibility by her.  That's not detachment.  :)etached would be she sends you an email and you have zero emotional response to it.  Still work to do, and disappearing entirely is the best tack right now.  You know this.

BTW, you can always delete your gmail email address and start a new one, and tell all the folks you want to keep in touch with what it is.  Are you willing to go to any lengths to detach?

Yeah. I told her that I thought she wasn't doing it intentionally because I didn't want to set her off. Yes. It was a lie. I just wanted to explain that contact hurts me and thought that might work. Any normal human being would see that and feel bad and agree. And yes, I do think she likes to hear that and I'm thinking telling her that it hurt me was probably a huge mistake. It is just so hard to actually believe this about someone. But, this email is kind of confirmation that she doesn't give a ___.

And no. I'm clearly not detached. I get that. People on this board have been telling me a million times over. I'M NOT DETACHED! I get it. But I'm not going to beat myself about it. It is obvious. I'm doing everything I can to do that.

How does my email invite a response? I told her directly to not respond. And anyways, the fact that she responded is not the point. The content of the response is what is freaking me out. This isn't a normal response.

And no. I can't change my email address. I would if I could. But I can't. I have a university address and they can't change it as it is part of the system identifier thing they have. I've asked.

So, if I change my number, the only way she can get to me is through email. And I just have to expect little steaming piles of horse___ in there forever until they invent some better way to communicate than email.

The descriptions of your emotional pain when she contacts you tells a borderline that she still has you emotionally, that there is still an attachment, the core of the disorder.  The best thing you can do is act bored and unemotional and she will just go away, in search of other attachments.  You didn't do that.  You're trying to apply rational thought to the irrational, expecting her to be someone she isn't capable of being.

Whatever it takes man, we'll still be here.  You can also set a rule in Outlook to route her emails directly to the trash and empty it every day without looking what's in it, but you well need discipline over that curiosity.  Take care of you!

Yes and yes.

I keep trying to apply normal rational logic to the situation. My ex isn't diagnosed. So, maybe that is why I can't just say to myself... . WILLY... . THIS IS WHAT THIS IS! I'm having a really hard time with accepting that. Maybe this email is good for me because it really is the clearest cut case that I have that this is what is happening. There isn't any other explanation.

The obvious issue here is that I haven't learned that I am not dealing with a normal human being. And you are right. Any show of emotions is something they can latch on to and 'work with'. She doesn't give a ___ about me at all.

i was going to post that i completely agreed with fromheeltoheal on this one. this last post though shows willy45 that you are aware of your motives of sending that last email, which is good work. the harsh reality is that if we aren't convinced that this person is fully disordered then we might foolishly treat them as if they aren't. sometimes we need to see the truth several times before it really sinks in. i say chalk it up as one more learning experience and as one more way to give you strength if you ever start doubting your convictions again.

radical acceptance is a b*&h, aint it   

Ahhh Willy ! Why did u read it ? Probably for the same reason I hacked into my Ex BPD FB lol. But you're 2 years out ? And still dancing to her tune. I was / am going to post a thread on here about the word " sorry" I was thinking about it today. When we had the first split my ex BPD came back and I told him how much he'd hurt me. I expected a sorry cos it was do out of the blue and for no reason. Instead he replied " we hurt each other" at the time I had no idea what disorder he had do I left it. It sticks in my mind now. Recently just prior to our last and final split we were discussing New Year's Eve and how he ditched me after wed just made love to go home and smoke dope at 7 pm. I thought he was staying the night. I never got any explanation or apology but when we discussed it again just few weeks back he said " I made a mistake" that's the only time I can ever remember him taking any sort of responsibility for anything. But that's as close to a sorry that I ever got. I guess he wasn't ever sorry.

Willy45, during period where I still had contact with my ex (3 months after the breakup), I outed her on who her new bf was (her sisters ex!). She tried to keep it secret from me, despite initiating with him the last weeks we were together. I didn't out in an angry way, but not to have her secret in the way of open communication. Her response was: "I don't want to have any contact with you anymore". I wrote her a long email afterwards, explaining what I just did to you, my feelings for her, that I wasn't judging new relationship and wished she would be happy with her decision (lie yes). AND that I was glad that she made the decision not have contact anymore as it as it wasn't productive for either of us. Guess what, a month and half later. She wrote me again (that a letter had arrived for me, which turned out to be an advertisement from some hotel where I once stayed).

The button line is, a sane person would respect the request for NC. BPD or not, this is not a person that respects you. What stopped the contact between my an my ex (otherwise she would with all probability still have sent me small greetings now and then), was me telling her off. Instead of living in fear, that she will contact you again, I propose that you draw the line once and for all. Be MEAN to her (which she accuses you of being anyway), hurt her, abandon her etc. to the point that she splits you into a black hole. In the last conversation with my ex, I told her that "she went behind my back and found someone else, in a time of my life when I needed her the most. That I didn't want to hear from her in a month, not in 6 months, not in a year, not in 5 year, not in 10 years and not in 20 years."

I didn't hear from her for 4 months now, and I don't think she will contact me ever again, because my rejection was very clear. In your case I would consider doing the same. I would call her and tell her it was not a request and to stay the ___ away from you, that you have all her mail and will report her for harassment if she doesn't.

But the question is if this is really what you want? In my case it's NOT what I really wanted. Rather I would love to have contact with her. At best every day, and at best from when waking up and seeing her lie next to me. Do you really want this woman gone from your life? What would the situation be if she was single?

Hey willy, I just looked at the rule options in Outlook, and you can set a rule to permanently delete an email when it arrives, so you would never even know you got one from her.  How bad do you want it?  No more excuses, getting rid of all her channels of communication is easy, time to look at the benefit you get from this ongoing interaction, which is why you keep doing it, kind of like the way heroin addicts think about heroin all the time; obsess about the perfect buzz, ignoring the reality that that choice can't give it to you, and never could.

Can I get a reality check here... .

This is messed up, yes?

And thanks so much for looking into Outlook for me. I will see what it takes to switch it over. Thanks!

Yes, it is messed up, and also optional and in your control.  You are also getting a benefit from posting your woes here, which is one thing this site if for, although it's been a long time and maybe it's time to move beyond that piece?

Willy, it is obvious from her response that she does not listen to you and has very little empathy for you.  This certainly is not a surprise to you given your history.  It is consistent with her behavior throughout your relationship. 

You have the ability to move forward with your life and to withdraw from her.  You are not controlled by her attempts to contact you.  At all.  It might be annoying, but it does not determine whether or not you relate to her. 

As FromHeeltoHeal wrote, contacting someone to tell them not to contact you is counter-productive.  And it invites a response!  So... . if you do not want a response, do not contact her.

It is hard, hard, hard, but your life is in your hands, not hers. 

Yeah. Agreed. I was expecting a response. Just not this one. I'm scared now but it mostly has to do with how I react to it. That is what is scary to me.

I see a bit of minimizing at your end (to her) what you experienced.  I did this during the r/s because I was afraid of the repercussions if I really said what I thought about his behavior.  I was seeking validation that he was hurting me, and in expressing that I essentially sugar coated it thinking he would hear it and actually get it.  He didn't hear it.  He didn't get it. 

This summer will be my 1 year anniversary out of the relationship and I can say that I've reached acceptance about who he is and the person I was involved with.  There's no question in my mind about what I experienced anymore. 

Have you reached that place yet?  I know it's hard to let go, but it's imperative to fully embrace what happened, what you experienced, and honor that for yourself.   

Hey BlissfulCamper... . your post is concise and clear.  Thank you.  It describes a process that took me a couple of years to complete.  Really I should say it describes an ongoing process for me.  See things for what they were, be honest about how it all affected me... . and accept it!  Face the facts, as this site is titled.  Do the five steps as are listed on the side of this page. So basic, so direct... . so darned hard to get to!  I am chuckling at myself.  Such confusion from her, such denial, magical thinking, minimizing from me... . so much fear, confusion, wishfulness in me.

Good to be trying to live life with more emotional and intellectual clarity and simplicity.

Yep, I'm with you BC and winston.  With the combination of chasing my own hopes and dreams in the face of something that just didn't measure up, self-delusion and denial, ignoring of gut feel, distortion and minimization of abuse, yadda, yadda, I really created a fantasyland to live in for a while, and it wasn't until I left, the emotions cooled, I weathered the shock of the realization of what I really went through, that I finally accepted her and it for that she and it really were.  It was what it was, it is what it is, acceptance, lessons learned, mark my words it won't happen again.

Interesting point Blissful - After the first break up I was always trying to get him to understand what he "did to me".  How absolutely shattered I felt.  I sugar coated it too... . but I think I did to keep the lines of communication open... . to not let go. 

This time I didn't sugar coat anything.  Aware enough to realize he's not capable of really empathizing with how I feel.  Angry enough to tell him just how much his behavior hurts people.  Severed the lines of communication. 

Hello,

This is my first reply post so I'm a tad nervous so please bear with with me.

I have to admit the first thing I did when I read her response to your really great in a nutshell email to her was... . burst into laughter! Most certainly not funny ha ha, but WOW! I've heard that before... No way you too?

I'm getting to the no contact stage and it's hard and of course we want to know what they say - There's that glimmer of hope that they may realize what they have done... . but reality sets in and here we are.

I know we all have the strength to somehow pull ourselves out and we will hit that bump in the road, but we will get up, shake it off and get to a better place.

Will be sending good thoughts your way and take care and... . back away from her emails!

Be well... .

Hey Vindikat,

Thank you so much for your reply. That really means a lot to me. I'm glad you burst into laughter. That was honestly my first reaction as well. And then I sunk into another depression and started beating myself up all over again. Like, how did I fall for this AGAIN. And why can't I just get this person out of my mind. I'm having such a hard time with this.

Was her response really as crazy as I think it is? I can't imagine that I would do anything like this if someone asked me the same thing. I remember one woman who broke up with me and after 2 months of slight communication, I mailed her a letter and told her that I couldn't talk to her anymore and I never heard from her again. It took me a while to get over it (maybe a year or so to be fully recovered) but she never contacted me again and I never contacted her (except for one or two emails about 7 years later to congratulate her on her baby... . a friend told me... . and I really meant it. I was really happy for her).

I'm just going back and forth on whether I think this is stalking and her just telling me that she doesn't care about how I feel and wants to keep pushing no matter what I say or feel, or if she is just truly over me and wants to be 'friends'. I just don't get it. I don't get why I feel this way. I feel like absolute ___. I'm really scared of this person and I'm mostly scared of myself right now. I don't understand why I feel the way I do. Everyone around me says that this email should be validation that she doesn't care about me and is totally crazy. But, I guess there is still a part of me that believes her. It is so weird. I hate it. I can't believe I'm back in this place again. I hope I learned my lesson this time.

Anyways, thanks for posting. It means a lot to me.

I fought acceptance big time.  It's rough when you reach it, but it's liberating too.  Kind of bittersweet at first but as it settles in for me, there's a sense of renewed optimism.  Sometimes I still feel like the old unsteady me, but then the new empowered me steps in and moves me forward.  I'm believing in myself again one step at a time, and positive thoughts are replacing the self-criticizing ones.  I've grown from this experience.  As painful as the r/s was and as much as I wish I didn't experience it, it's a good thing that I did.  That relationship changed me in ways that needed changing, work I should have done a long time ago.  I neglected me.  Now it's time to nurture me.  

Everyone works through this at their own pace.  There's stuff to learn in these experiences.  I really feel for you Willy. 

I guess the question I asked myself is how many times did I want to continue sticking my hand over a flame that I knew, deep down, would burn me? 

Willy, friends show respect for each other among other things. When she says no to your rights is that respecting you? Have the boobs hypnotized you?

The key thing is she has a toxic affect on you which makes you feel terrible.

Willy

This isn't stalking.  It's garden variety refusal to respect boundaries.  There are people in the world out there like this. 

It's each adult's responsibility to maintain their boundaries and to be be cognizant of this.  Some people will take as much as you allow.  Does it make them a stalker?... . not always it does make them a boundary buster and the other person who allows it someone with what they call porous boundaries.

Part of detachment is doing an assessment of the relationship both her and your own mistakes.  Having poor boundaries is a great way to have a dysfunctional relationship.  Sometimes people have poor boundaries because the are more afraid of losing the relationship than having one with harmony, some people are raised in environments where they were not allowed to have boundaries or they were constantly violated, some people struggle with boundaries because they don't know what a boundary is... . your lack of boundaries with her might indicate an area which addressing and developing will help you detach, mature and ultimately become a more fulfilled person from.

There's no point in trying to change her... . change you.  Take control of your own life... . the rest usually follows.

If boundaries were difficult for you have you given some thought to how you might address this now?

Hi GreenMango,

Thanks. Yeah. I guess the stalking thing is a bit over the top in terms of a description. It just freaks me out that she doesn't seem to care at all about my thoughts and needs.

And yes. I think the thing I am most afraid of is my inability to have good boundaries around this person. She doesn't seem to care at all about them and I should not give her to power to be able to disrespect them. The point is I have not gotten it into my brain and my heart that this person is toxic for me, that she was abusive to me, and that I deserve better. I really struggle for some reason with the term 'abuse' because it just feels like I am making it up in my head to justify leaving her and to justify the way I feel right now. I'm working with my T. on this now. He tells me that my thinking is really distorted if I can't see the way she behaved towards me as abuse. That is the part I'm struggling with the most. It just seems unbelievable to me that someone would do this and continue to do this. And it is unbelievable to me that I haven't learned my lesson. Makes me feel like there is something deeply wrong with me.

It just freaks me out that she doesn't seem to care at all about my thoughts and needs... .

She doesn't seem to care at all about them... .

It just seems unbelievable to me that someone would do this and continue to do this.

I recommend you learn more about the disorder willy.  You're still trying to see her through the lens of mental health, and haven't accepted or maybe even realized that she isn't mentally healthy, if she indeed suffers from the disorder, and she does not think like you.  She does not think like you.  She does not think like you.

Willy, take a look at the "Regarding Empathy" thread that started yesterday.  You are not alone in finding this "unbelievable," but once you believe it, a weight will lift from your mind. 

Maybe a question to ask yourself is where did you learn that when someone does something that violates your boundaries or refuses to treat you with consideratio and you continue to engage with them come from?  Or worse allow abuse?

We pick up this stuff somewhere.

This speaks volumes Willy.

As GM says:


Focus here Willy so you can heal.

Heel to heel:  "She doesn't think like you.  She doesn't think like you.  She doesn't think like you." Of course they don't.  But I keep forgetting that.

Willy

the natural response when someone violates your boundaries is to be uncomfortable... . or as you out it freaked out.   

Usually it means slow down and look at why you feel that way and then look at a way torespond appropriately. 

The unhealthy response is to feel completely freaked out then continue doing things that perpetuate the negative effects and allow the person to willy nilly do as they please.

So it freaks you out she can disregard your wishes.  Point taken its rude.  What next other than soaking in the audacity of her actions?  What could be some next steps for you that align with your desires to move forward and detach?  Actionable items because this is a practice ... . it happens with willfully practicing the steps even when it doesn't always provide immediate satisfaction.  That comes later with practice. :)

Thanks GreenMango,

I think that I've figured out a big piece of it for me today. I have not been angry. After all the lying and cheating and raging and abusing, I haven't been angry. The repeated boundary violations. The gas-lighting. The accusations. The blaming. The redirecting. All of that. For 8 years now (I'm including the 2 years post break up because it continues to happen). I have not been angry. I realized today that I have just turned that anger inwards. It was there. Seething. But instead of focusing that anger on the locus of the problem (my ex and being anywhere close to being around her), I have interwardly focused that anger on to myself. It seems like a very typical pattern in an abusive relationship. How else could someone take the abuse? That explains the depression. That explains the self-hatred. I have SO much anger toward my ex I can't even contain it. And instead of being angry and using that anger to distance myself from someone who clearly has no interest in my safety or security, that anger has just remained bottled up inside me and it is just turning onto myself.

So, the next step for me in all this is to practice telling myself that my ex is a crazy, selfish, abusive b*tch. That I didn't deserve the way she treated me. That she will always treat me like this if I let her. And that she can ___ right off. That is clearly what I need to do. Because bottling this up has clearly not worked. And sugar coating any interaction with her doesn't work. Trying to explain to her why her contact hurts me like she is a normal human being doesn't work. But, telling her to ___ off in my mind, that is going to work. Every time she calls or emails, I can tell her to ___ off by deleting her emails. I can tell her to ___ off by changing my phone number. I can tell her to ___ off my telling her not to come near me if I see run into her.

I'm done with mourning. I've been doing that too long. And that hasn't worked. I know deep down that I have no interest in having her in my life in any capacity. I never wanted to marry her let alone have children with her. What a terror that would have been.

All the abuse is over with. I'm not going to let her words affect me anymore or trick me into thinking I am to blame for her abuse and insane behavior.

This is the piece that is missing. This is the piece that can help me build up my boundaries. I'm going to work on why I haven't done this in the past and learn to feel OK with turning people away who violate me.

You made a really good point about anger Willy. I totally identify with u on that. I'm still not angry. Never have been. And towards my best friend who has betrayed me I move in and out of anger. Usually I move through the anger phase quickly by dealing with it and letting it out. I don't really understand why I'm not angry with ex BPD, maybe because I excuse his bad behaviour? Because now I understand it being an illness. It doesn't stop him hurting me. I've been devastated by him, but I only feel thankful for knowing him. Grateful he hurt me to my core because its made me look at myself and what I want from this life. He has slapped me awake. Maybe anger will come later on for me. But I feel good and feel happier and feel like I forgive him for how he wronged me. And feel like I am moving on a bit now because when I think of him, I don't feel physical pain and despair now just a bit of sorrow which I can happily deal with. You're cycling through the loss stages, and doing pretty well I think. Well done x