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There are probably some variations on answers to this question.  I met with an attorney last week regarding my decision to move forward with a divorce with my BPD/NPD spouse.  BPD/NPD spouse violently rages against me, which has included physical assault.  We share one child together - teenage girl - who is three years out from college.  

I am planning on being gone by next summer, but I need to do some planning.  In order to get on the calendar with the divorce court for next summer, my attorney says I need to file now.  However, to the extent that it is possible I should stay in the marital home and apply for a TPO if that is necessary.  

My question is this:  do I present my BPD/NPD spouse with the news that I wish to divorce, that I am moving to another room in the house, present my asset settlement proposal as well as custody proposal and see how she reacts?  :)o I move immediately to remove her from the home for my own protection?  It is going to be an awful scene and will make for a really bad year for me and DD.  

Can anyone share how they handled:  a) telling their BPD spouse they want the divorce; and b) still having to be in the same house with them during the divorce proceeding?  

Considering your wife's past behaviors when rejected, I would get a TPO. 

My son got a TRO, probably very similar to the TPO and had his exgf served with custody papers where she worked.  We used a private process server so we could control time, date and place of service.  He was able to get the locks changed the same day.  He placed all of her belongings in a storage unit and she was given the location and the key to the storage unit when she was served. 

I do not know if where you live if something like that could be done.  In your case I would also install some security cameras (one member here used wildlife cams which were less expensive, but worked fine) around your home also.  Remove her from any credit card you are the primary card holder on, etc. 

IMO, it would be very dangerous for you to try and live in the same home with her.  False DV arrest, calling CPS claiming you are abusing your daughter are just two things that come to mind.  You would spend thousands of dollars and a lot of time trying to clear your name of false charges and allegations. 

The main thing to ask the L would be can I get a TPO now.  From your previous posts, it sounds like you have a lot of evidence showing her destructive/violent behavior.

Talk with your lawyer about the options and how each one might work.

Staying in the home with someone who has BPD after you file for divorce is likely to be very stressful for everyone.

Would there be enough money for one of you to get a small place nearby?

Can you show any evidence that your spouse has been violent with you or the child?

It would be wise to get some voice recorders.  Living together with a divorce case hanging over your heads will be hard and she is likely to short circuit the process and take control by framing you for mischief or making unsubstantiated allegations so that you're the one carted away and possible even facing charges.  So you will need to prove that you're not the one with a history of behaving badly.

On one particularly bad day in 2005, my spouse was threatening to kill me, I called 911, that effectively ended the marriage, though it had been dysfunctional for years.  Guess what, I think I would have been the one carted off for a weekend in jail.  When the officer asked me to hand off our preschooler to his mother and step away he shrieked and clung tighter to me, I think he saved me that day.

If that happened, would your daughter be your ally or would she cave and side with her mother?  Children of abusive parents often have little will power and their perception of events can be swayed by pressuring.

You're thinking the 'fair' thing to do is to discuss this with her first before filing.  That is most likely a bad strategy if she will instead use that advance notice to make you look worse than her.  Probably best to file first then inform her or have her served.  That way if she makes allegations you can honestly portray it a sour grapes, retaliation, etc.  If you inform her before you file she could strike first with underhanded methods meant to make you defensive and in a weak position.

I filed then a week later x2bh npd/BPD received the divorce complaint. He received a notice in the mail for him to go to the post office and receive the letter which contained the divorce complaint. When h picked up the complaint I planned it so the kids would not be home and I could leave.

H texted me all day saying he was crying , he called my friend asking where I was was and how mental I was etc. later I found out he was at his L's office talking about economic issues for divorce.

So he must have had a L lined up ready to go.

From the day the spouse receives the complaint is when the actual divorce timeline begins in my state.

I Had already told h that I did not want to stay married to him anymore which wasn't easy because I was so scared of him.  But after I filed and divorce complaint was in the mail, I told kids which was the worst part. H came home got his mail notice.

After h received the divorce complaint, my L filed with the court for me to get marital possession of the home , which tied into a custody hearing. That court date was four months after.  H got court order to leave I had some proof of the emotional abuse and the financial part of what I put up for the house.  I pay full mortgage. he had another 30 days to actually be gone. He stayed till the last second.

I did not get a PFA order on him, cause I was sacred to . He did not hit me. I was unaware of RO which I think is different and could of used that while we lived together after filing . I don't know.  h followed me around to start arguments and record me. It wasn't  nice.

Before she receives the complaint Have a storage locker to put ALL important financial papers in. Put all check records, receipts, bank statements , deeds, etc there. Any photos or anything special of yours put in there.  :)ont be nice and feel spouse won't go though any of it and take it herself at home. Don't tell spouse about it.  

Any commingled funds are marital property. Spouse can empty any joint accounts. Even though you will probably have to "share" finances when divorce becomes final, keep yours in an individual account. That way what is yours you have it. Other way around you might not ever see it.

What happens with kids is another long story

There is no easy way to tell spouse. It is not easy to live with a disorderd person after. There was major P A with the kids. But it was a do it or die for me so I went though the storm.  So glad I did.

You want to be assertive and proactive, not reactive and always playing catch-up.

You want a lawyer who is assertive and proactive, not reactive and basically just files the forms and says he/she will hold your hands during the process.  This means you'll need an experienced, problem-solving lawyer.  Don't be intimidated by the hourly fees, find out if you're charged for every phone call, believe me, there will be a lot.  Some may quote a lower rate but if they ding you for every email and call then you may end up paying more.  So focus on whether your lawyer has a strategy beyond filing forms.

Thanks to all who have provided input thus far. I have hired an attorney in may area who is well versed in dealing with crazy spouses.  That being said, without my DW actually threatening to do me bodily harm, I am reluctant to go the TPO route because I fear it will jeopardize any chance I have to avoid paying her spousal support.  She is a high functioning borderline (undiagnosed, but all the symptoms are there) and she holds a Government security clearance.  I would fear the TPO would jeopardize her clearance, she would lose her job and then I would be forced to support her.  Any thoughts?

There may be a way to do it so she won't lose her security clearance... .

What if you both agree to leave each other alone, and only communicate by e-mail, or through your attorneys?  And what if your lawyers work it out with the court, so it won't be listed as a TPO "against" either of you?  You can talk openly - the four of you - both parties and both attorneys - to make sure it will achieve the goal - limited contact - without putting her security clearance in any jeopardy.

Both attorneys, and the judge, will see that you are trying to be reasonable and also to protect yourself, and they should respect that.

Is there any urgent reason that you need to be divorced by next summer?

If you want to initiate the divorce now, but don't want to serve her a TPO, maybe the best thing is to lay low while you tighten up your plan.

In my state, spouses must separate a year before the divorce is granted. At first I thought that was a prison sentence, but then I realized with high-conflict divorces and a court that moves at a glacial pace, that it takes about a year to sort through everything anyway. A year is actually fast compared to some of the divorces here. BPD sufferers tend to be pretty good at filing continuances and obstructing things, which drags everything out. And then there is the problem of agreeing to things, only to not comply with the order. That's also pretty common.

In my case, we actually dealt with the financial stuff and division of assets fairly quickly. But then N/BPDx would not comply with anything he agreed to, so I had to take him back to court to get him to comply. That went on for a couple of years. Custody has been ongoing. I've lost count of how many times we've had hearings.

Hope this isn't too depressing. I'm just mentioning it because wanting to be divorced next summer, even if you file now, is probably not going to happen... .

In my state, if I want to file for divorce on no-fault grounds we must be separate for a year.  This does not mean we cannot be in the same household, but our relationship during that time, corroborated by a witness, must be no more than "two ships passing in the night."   How are would this be to do with a BPD spouse? 

The other ground that my lawyers says I can file on is cruelty, which would get me in the docket much faster than waiting one year. 

My inclination at this point is to perhaps draw up a settlement and separation agreement and see how BPD spouse responds.  I am slated to leave with or without BPD spouse for an overseas assignment for my job next summer.  I need to separate things financially ASAP as BPD spouse is putting a lot of strain on our joint finances by refusing to contribute to her portion of the mortgage payment.  As you can imagine, when we qualified for the mortgage based on joint income, this is creating a lot of stress for me. 

I am also worried about my DD's reaction to the divorce filing and the impact it will have on her.  I think she views me, somewhat, as the "bad guy" who is not sensitive to her Mom's needs.  She more or less told me so last night when I said that her mother is overly sensitive to the smallest of comments.  The one that will seem to set my BPDW on a rage is when I ask her a question and she deems it a stupid question and I respond with something to the effect of "well, I didn't know which is why I asked."  DD says it is patronizing and condescending - the same thing BPDW says.  At the same time, BPDW can say the most horrible things to DD.  Lat week BPDW was threatening to hit DD - and I had to place myself on the room to make sure it wouldn't happen.  I could not de-escalate the verbal confrontation but I could make sure it wasn't going to get physical between the two of them.

I have never actually witnessed BPDW hitting my daughter, although I did hear from another room once my daughter scream at her "don't hit me" and DD has intimated in conversations that her mother has hit her in the past.  She has never directly said so. 

I found a letter last night where DD was writing to herself how it hurts that her mother "hates" her so much.  I sometimes wonder how much is "teen drama" vs. real issue because DD will say "nobody likes her" but she has a number of friends, gets out to do things on her own, etc. 

One thing is that for the next year, I will be in a more flexible position regarding my work schedule as I will basically be attending full-time language training, so I will be around a lot more.  Not sure how this all comes together and how I make this all work for the better. 

What I would most certainly counsel you do NOT do is to discuss divorce informally.  It leaves too much in her control and she could very well sabotage you, file her own TPO against you and put you one the defensive as the alleged problem person, the 'abuser'.

Also, don't worry too much about your spouse.  First, she won't have the same concern for your welfare that you have for hers.  In other words, don't hide her misbehaviors while she is soon likely to be making serious allegations against you at the same time.  Second, government or security clearance jobs are not the only jobs out there.  Sometimes we are so cautious not to upset the canoe that we put ourselves at a disadvantage.

My thought... . as soon as she realizes you're pondering divorce, she will try to get you out first.  And if your daughter is conditioned to support mother first, then you'll have two against one and you may end up on the outside looking in.  Yes, have a recorder with you and use it (quietly) for insurance against being railroaded.

It sounds like your daughter has been influenced or partially alienated against you, at least to the extent that she sides with her mother while not discerning that she's criticizing you only for the same things her mother does.  This is likely a result of years of conditioning.  I would make sure that you include in your filing for your daughter to be ordered into counseling.  (Courts love counseling!)  You have less than 3 years, until she's considered an adult, to have a say in her getting counseling.

Yeah, I think this is definitely a pattern we see here:  our members (including me!) often think the situation can be worked out with the other parent, and make informal agreements, which usually work in the favor of the parent who is less stable and honest.

When you file for divorce, or respond to the other party's filing, in my state at least, it's an opportunity to get the court to establish "temporary orders" - court-imposed rules for who will take care of the kids when, and financial stuff like how expenses will be paid.

What that does is eliminates the chaos and ensures that both parents will have time with the kids.  You want to ask for majority time, or at least 50/50;  temporary orders tend to become permanent so it's super-important to ask for what you think is best, right from the start.

OK. So, let's say I get various orders with regard to finances and custody into place but need to stay in the house until next summer.  How do I deal and help DD deal with a BPDW who will be even more hostile than usual?

Well if there is any possible way to live separately, that would be much better.  Once both parties aren't committed to the marriage, the stress can go way up for everybody.  Be creative and see if you can think of a way that you can live separately as soon as possible!

If you have to live in the same house, there should be very clear rules, which you can propose and the court can decide about.  (Or you could work them out with the other party and give them to the court to approve and enforce.)

For example, a schedule of who is responsible for the child when - what days and hours:

"Mother responsible for Child from noon Sunday through 6:00 p.m. Wednesday.  Father responsible for Child from 6:00 p.m. Wednesday through noon Sunday."

Maybe exceptions for holidays and vacations - spell those out clearly.

Figure out who is responsible for medical issues, education, etc.  Keep it as simple as possible but very clear so it can't be misunderstood.

Consider finding a counselor for your daughter, and get that into the temporary orders too:  ":)aughter will see Ms. Counselor for one hour every other week, on Father's time, beginning the week of June 16, 2014."

Find out if you can audio-record legally in your state, and learn how to program your phone or .mp3 player to do that.  Record all interactions with the other party.  Let your lawyer know you are doing that and consider letting your wife know that too;  she might act right if she knows her behavior will not be kept secret.

Photograph anything you can that shows her behavior.  For example, if she damages property, take a picture and send it to your lawyer.

Have your lawyer tell her lawyer how it needs to be:  any aggressive behavior or threats, you will report to your lawyer right away, with evidence, and he will inform the judge and ask for her to be removed from the home.  :)on't respond in kind - walk away - but don't keep it a secret.

Keep your wallet and keys on you all the time, and an overnight bag in the trunk of your car.  Be prepared to leave at a moment's notice, if she gets worked up.  Know where you can stay overnight if you need to.

Get your daughter into counseling with an experienced counselor.  This next year will be one where you stbEx will ramp up attempts to ensnare and control DD and further alienate her from you.  You may have less and less impact on DD's views and perceptions, so having a counselor ordered will be a lifesaver.  Remember, this is likely to be high conflict.  StbEx will act as though "no holds barred" and nothing will be too underhanded for her to attempt.  After all, with her extreme all-or-nothing, black or white perceptions, she will probably see this as War not Peace.

And for your own self-protection, record interactions and encounters, especially if the simmering conflict appears to start erupting.  Technically legal or not, you need to protect yourself from false allegations.  Keep it unobtrusive, on the down low, you don't want to trigger incidents.  Seriously, it may save you from being carted off to jail, etc.


And it might be wise to sit down with a high level official in your local police department (or whichever department is likely to respond to 911 calls) to advise them of the impending divorce case and risk of emergency incident calls.  Better for them to suggest what preparations would help now than for them to respond to a cold call with no advance knowledge of the background.

BPD sufferers are very sensitive. It's a hallmark of the disorder. In general, though, calling someone (BPD or not) oversensitive is going to come across as invalidating. Your D may be trying to communicate this to you. It's hard in these relationships to focus on our behavior when their disordered behavior is clearly out of control. But the only way to help your D through the upcoming year, and to build a stronger bond with her, is to learn everything you can about validation. Whether it works with your wife or not is beside the point, but it will likely make a huge difference with your D.

Validation is not about agreeing with the statement "you are condescending and patronizing" -- it's about validating the feeling your D is having when she says it. Honestly, the best thing I ever learned to do (because validation initially felt so foreign to me) was to ask questions whenever I felt defensive. "Tell me what I do that makes you think that?"

When I talk to my T about my interactions with S12, more often than not, she will see things from his point of view. I realized that he is actually extremely perceptive and has an incredible sense of fairness. If your D is the same way, it will go a long way if you tell her that when she has great insight. But first you have to understand how validation works, and why.

Power of Validation (for parents) is an excellent book. So is Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak. There is a new book out called Coparenting with a Toxic Ex that I haven't read, but another member here recommended it. The psychological conflicts in your home over the upcoming year are going to be intense -- learning everything you can about validation and parental alienation could salvage your relationship with your D, and help her weather the storm.

Is there any way you could hang in there and stay until your daughter is out and then leave?  It might make for an easier break and help your daughter as well.  Only you know what is best for you.  Wishing you much luck. 

One of the many reasons for separate homes and (for the parents) separate lives is so that we can be good examples to our children.  Living with a spouse who has BPD behaviors likely involves a lot of tiptoeing, appeasing, weakened boundaries, etc.  That's not a good example of what a marriage should be like.  By modeling a stable and loving home, even if only for the last few years of a teen's life, you are showing (perhaps for the first time ever) what an adult relationship requires - boundaries, mutual respect, mutual concern, etc.  That is an almost impossible task if you're forever dancing an endless dysfunctional dance.

No. For my own sanity I cannot take it anymore, but also because my job requires me to go.  I have had a long discussion about quitting my career with colleagues and friends and they have advised against it.  You can work around the two to three years separation from DD, be out of the house and not have to deal with the crazy and be in a better position to help her than if you are around to be the lightning rod for BPDW's anger, etc. 

I seriously doubt I could get full custody, and that DD would not want to go with me because she wants to stay in her same school with her same friends, etc.  I am trying to figure out what kind of custody arrangement would be "in the best interest" of my DD. 

She definitely could go with me abroad for next summer, then when she is away from the crazy environment her Mom creates, maybe she would change her mind? 

Spending the summer abroad with you might be a great experience for your daughter and you too.

Is that place good for a girl her age?  Would it be safe, and would she have stuff to do while you're working?

Yes, it is a quite safe European country.  I could most likely land her a summer job with my employer. 

Cool!  This could be a great experience for her in many ways.  Stressful for you both - don't assume everything will be rosy - there will be problems.  But you'll be together and that should help your relationship a lot.

What a perfect opportunity to start forming a tighter bond with your D than seeing if she has an interest in studying the new language and culture with you.  Books, a language course at her own pace, etc.  Not to mention, it will look good on her college application. 

Good point - it's not just the time abroad that will be great, it's all the preparation between now and then.

I hate to be debbie downer here, but when a custody case is active, and especially when it hasn't been resolved, the court probably won't let you take her to a foreign country. Your wife would have to agree... .

Yes, and she should be asked nicely, by e-mail.  If she blocks it for no good reason, you don't have to keep that hidden from the court.  It would show who is looking out for what's best for your daughter and who is fighting just to fight.

So... . How do the dynamics work in your family? Is it best to talk to your D first and get her on board, and then have her talk about it with BPDw? Might be worth walking on eggshells for this so you can get some kind of agreement in place first. Something you can use in your custody stuff to show the court that your wife agreed it was ok. It would need to be documented in email if you can arrange that.

My guess is that after you file, she won't want D to go with you, so it's best to document that she is changing her mind. Courts love status quo, so if D expects to go, then court may want to honor that.

Yes, and getting the plan in place now - as soon as possible - makes a lot of sense too.  She agrees now, and then some time goes by, and she doesn't indicate she is having second thoughts;  and then after you file for divorce, she suddenly takes back her agreement.  She'll look horrible, and there might still be time to get her lawyer or the court to intervene and let the trip happen.

Going on a trip is not impossible but you don't have to guess who will try to obstruct.  You would have to satisfy the court you would return with her.  You may be required to leave a bond or surety in escrow as a legal commitment of forfeiture that you will return your daughter after the trip.

Also -- passports.

Both parents have to sign to get a minor's passport. Same for renewal. If your D already has a passport, it might be worth keeping it somewhere that only you can access. If you get things in order so that your D can travel, it might be worth adding something to the custody order about her passport to make sure your ex is compelled to sign for a passport, hand it over, or whatever needs to happen so that she can't use the passport to obstruct the trip.

And if the court does allow you to go, have a notarized letter of permission to travel. Not all countries require this, but in case you have trouble at the border, you'll have a signed letter from the other parent permitting you to enter another country.

And to FD's point about the bond. That's what I had to do in my custody case because my ex all but ended any chance of S12 visiting his grandparents, who live in another country. I had to research everything -- my lawyer didn't know anything about foreign travel, and most of them won't -- so look up what you can about Hague Conventions and whether the country you're traveling to is part of the Hague. If it is, then there will be a specific arrangement between the US and that country about how it handles abductions. My native country is Canada, and they pretty much have a system for deporting the parent and child because it honors the custody arrangement of the home country.

The bond just gives your ex assurance that you have no intention of abducting your child. If you did, then she could use the bond to pay for the legal and travel expenses to have the two of your deported.

I am a U.S. diplomat and will need to be overseas next summer in any case.  I just need to work out the kind of custody arrangement that will allow me to see and spend time with my DD.  DD is already "turned" by her mother. 

I read through a psych evaluation of my DW this morning, and boy did she pull the wool over the eyes of this professional!  The evaluator commented, "among other things: 

DW suggests a tendency to portray self as relatively free of shortcomings to which most people would admit (understatement)

Preoccupation with understanding precipitating interpersonal complexities

Likely to resist therapy to address difficulties (true)

Reports loving relationship with spouse (surprise!)

Solid appreciation for healthy mutually reciprocal relationships (Huh?)

Affect constriction around aggressive/competitive feelings towards those in authority place DW at risk for becoming "emotionally overwhelmed" and making decisions without thinking through the consequences. esp. where she feels shamed, ridiculed or ostracized

Needs to avoid situations where her self worth and intellectual capacity are not valued or recognized. 

Has anyone informed their BPD spouse that they want a divorce or had them served papers in the presence of a therapist?  Is this advisable?

Regardless of the option taken, the option must assure that your STBx actually gets the papers.  I had mine maield to the house, and she simply avoided getting the mail - witch she would usually do every day... . so she could go through mail addressed to ME!  That left me with the papers in hand for a period of three weeks, and then I served her myself.  That was dangerouse for me little did I know. 

Seems to me like a good idea.

My wife filed for divorce;  we agreed to put it on hold and go to counseling;  and several months later it was clear to me that the marriage couldn't be saved.  I told her and the MC that together.  She had chosen the MC, and they had good rapport;  my wife didn't seem to hold it against me that I told her with someone else present.  By that time we had little intimacy left anyway... .

Fso,  as you have seen from far more experienced members the pattern of BPD reaction often follows the same pattern that many here have already experienced.  Sadly the pain and craziness of living with a BPD kind of bonds us all together.   I literally moved out the night I told my uBPDw that I would no longer tolerate her behavior and wanted a divorce.  By listening to others here I was prepared with an escape plan and had a bag packed in the car before I ever said anything to her.  Of course at that point I did not have the strength to face her and tell her that I had made that preparation, so when she lashed out and insisted that I must move out, I made a grand act of packing yet another bag for her to witness, so she could yet again feel in charge.  After about 3 weeks with family I moved into a rental unit within the kids school district.  Again part of the plan for maximizing my chances of a favorable outcome with my kids.

Short term steps

1) Make sure you are clear on what your goals are for the divorce.  Whether it be 50/50 custody, financial terms, who stays in the house, etc.   Because I went in with a somewhat strategic plan at the beginning I believe it allowed me to make better decisions as the case progressed.  For example, I did not want the house and I knew she did not want the house, but by me moving out first it gave me some leverage at settlement.

2) If you intend to stay in the house multiple digital voice recorders are a must.  Remember the goal is not so much to catch your spouse doing bad things but to protect yourself in the event of the police being called.  If you stay in the house, you should always have one on you and running.

3) Again if you are staying in the house, you must have a place in which you stay securely as well as lock when you are away.

4) If you have any items (personal mementos, firearms, your dads watch, etc.) you may want to consider subtly beginning to remove them for safekeeping.

5) Although you want to stay in the home, be prepared that you may not have a choice.  Have a bag packed as well as have a conversation with a family member or friend with whom you could stay for a bit on short notice. 

6) In my case I also took the steps of warning both my direct supervisor and HR department that she may call with wild accusations (yes she did).

7) Consider ways to limit contact with your stbx, or at least ways in which you can have documentation to protect yourself.  Withing 3 weeks of telling her that I wanted a divorce, I had to literally completely stop any phone conversations with my stbx.  Why you might ask? Because I had nothing to gain and much to lose.  Many BPDs thrive in being able to wear down others through verbal abuse and circular conversations.  By limiting my communications to email and text I instead put myself in charge of the conversation.

Most importantly continue to seek the help of your counselor, they provide a valuable grounding point to help you take care of yourself as  the stress level will almost certainly ramp up.

Wow - super good ideas from Ugh!  Would have saved me a lot of trouble if I had followed this approach... .

Something that occurred to me too during my divorce... . and this might only be if you move out.

Does it make sense to stop putting maximum $$$ into retirement? These divorces take a long time, and you'll be splitting that money down the middle, most likely. I think the date when you file the QDRO becomes the official amount to be split.

If you move out, there's a period where it's kind of a free-for-all. I had to be strategic and withdraw money ahead of time to support myself until we settled stuff in mediation. It's a bit stunning how loose lawyers are when they try to decide who gets what. Anything you take out now will be counted as an advance on the settlement.

It's unfortunate, but BPD makes us pay a lot more money in legal fees than is necessary. So bank up if you can.

Thanks for the insights.  I have plenty of savings, but they are all in my retirement accounts.  My BPDw would need to sign off on any withdrawals from them unless there are extenuating circumstances.  I have no interest in keeping the house(s), except I would want BPDw to either buy me out or sell and split the equity.  I also want to make sure there is enough money to cover my DD's college. 

I can do one of two things at this point:  I can file immediately and get a court date or I can hold out for a year and take the "no fault" route after I am on assignment for a year.  However, I will be overseas and DD would be with DW. So, I am not sure what a great idea that will be. 

If I file immediately, I will need to either: a) stay in the house with the BPDw; or b) move out and find my own place. I already have a "mad bag' packed and in my car and a place to go very short term if need be. 

My immediate concerns are:  1) what type of custody arrangement is realistic and how can I safeguard the emotional, spiritual and physical well-being of my DD?  2) how can I disentangle my finances from BPDw so that I can move forward with continuing to save for retirement, pay down debt and get my DD through college.

Why do attorneys always advise you to stay in the house if you can? 

Does your wife have her own retirement account/savings?  If not, one of the financial settlements may involve what she gets from your accounts.  There could be a percentage of civil service pension, IRA, 401K, etc.

You mentioned having her buy out your share of the house... . one of my friends ended up settling for ownership of the house in exchange for claiming none of her husband's retirement account.  You may consider that.

I believe most of the recommendations to stay in the house have been in situations in which there was a custody situation at risk, i.e., the person moving out would be put in a position of less than 50/50 time with the children and thus at risk of getting temp or permanent custody orders of less than what was desired.  Also, if one vacates the house, it might indicate one doesn't want ownership/residency of the house when time comes for the settlement.  Just things to consider, and they may not even apply to your situation, since you are anticipating the extended assignment/don't really want to live in the house/have an older child nearing her own majority.

Why lawyers recommend we stay: Leaving gives the other side the argument that you abandoned the marital home -- and that could affect your custody argument. I think this varies by state, but that's how it works where I live.

My L wanted me to stay too. But, she said to leave if I was in danger. She said best-case scenario was to get N/BPDx removed from the house, but I was too scared to do that. Next best-case scenario was leaving and taking S12 with me. That's what I did.

Some (unfortunate) scenarios that could protect your custody rights if you end up leaving:

If you decide to stay and your wife physically abuses you, call the police so there is a record of it. Document it yourself in some way if you don't contact the police, like write an email to her and see if she will engage and make an admission that she did something. Court pays attention to emails.

If your wife is abusive or screams at your in front of your D, record it or somehow document it. That can also protect your custody if you decide to leave. Your defense is that you didn't want to put your D in that environment. The key is to document it... . so make sure you can record with permission. It's different in every state. Ask you L how recording would play out in court. Sometimes just the hint that their behavior has been recorded will help your case because pwBPD don't want it made public.

You need a defensible reason why you left, unfortunately.

I left, because my wife assaulted me and accused me of assaulting her, and the court gave her temporary possession of the home.

When that was lifted, I decided not to return to the family home, because I was concerned - and my lawyer was even more concerned - that being there would be likely to repeat the pattern - more verbal abuse, maybe physical abuse, and maybe false accusations.  And if it happened again the consequences could be even worse.

It didn't hurt me in the custody case, because I established the maximum practical contact with the kids right away, and kept it up til custody was decided.  My wife's lawyer claimed my wife was the kids' "primary" parent, but I showed that wasn't true - I had a log showing the kids were with me more than with their mom since the separation.  That worked.

It's best if you can get the other parent to leave, but if the home isn't safe for you, or if the stress is too high to live in the same place as the other parent, you can probably neutralize the impact of leaving, by showing there was a good reason to leave, and by maintaining at least as much contact with the kids as the other parent.

My BPDw physically assaulted me last night.  She threw a large and heavy bracelet at me.  She threw it hard enough that it left an impression in the drywall behind me and smashed a small sculpture on a table.  She then came at me with a pair jeans and started whipping me with them - leaving a nice large welt on my shoulder. I managed to lock myself in the bathroom.  She left the house and when she came home she is with my DD - telling her what a bad father I am, how I cheat on her, etc. 

There is some strange, twisted relationship between the two of them.  Is my daughter becoming BPD too? She saw me taking pictures of the wall damage and asked rather sarcastically is that for a court case?  She then told me I am nothing b/c I left her at the most difficult time for her.  She in Mom are later just yucking it up downstairs in front of the TV as if nothing happened. 

Over the weekend, DD lost it on me and screamed an yelled b/c we were late to some event.  When I told her that she could not talk that way with me b/c I am her father, her mother chimed in and did not back me up while DD then smiled as DW undermined my authority! 

I am so confused.  DW rages - at me, at DD - but I am the devil in both of their eyes! 

So you took pictures of the damage to the wall - that's very good.  And the broken sculpture, and the welts?

Have you talked with a family law attorney or a criminal defense attorney?

Are you planning to take any other actions, like telling the police what happened, or getting a restraining order (sometimes called an Order Of Protection)?

If you stay in the home, I think it's likely that the violence will escalate, and that usually ends with the man going to jail.  When a man calls the police, and says, "My wife is attacking me.", he goes to jail more often than she does.  But since this happened already, that risk is lower, so if you take some action now - like getting an RO, an OOP, or telling the police what happened - you're probably at less risk.  A criminal defense attorney could advise you about that.

Staying in the home now puts you at higher and higher risk of false accusations and jail.  It also means you can't fix the relationship with your daughter, because it will continue to be undermined.  When you are living separately from your wife, with a court order giving you at least 50% parenting time, you can have a one-to-one relationship with your daughter, without being constantly undermined.

If you are active - figure out your options and take positive steps - I think it may be possible to kick your wife out of the house, and stay there with your daughter.  If you are passive - keep doing nothing about it - it's more likely you will be kicked out and/or go to jail.

I have retained an attorney for divorce already - just this week and we have not filed yet. As for staying in the house, I don't need the house but cannot afford to move out to my own place and also pay the mortgage on the house.  The BPDw works, but refuses to contribute to anything financially. 

And took pictures of the welts too and then sent an e-mail to BPDW describing her behavior, telling her it was not acceptable in order to establish boundaries and consequences and to also document what happened.  Sometimes she responds to these.  Sometimes not, but when she does it is usually rage by e-mail in all cap letters.  So, the crazy comes through b/c she will write something to the effect of how I "provoked" her by being an ___hole and that I got what I deserved. 

She is quite the peach!

And she's going to continue being quite the peach.  Nothing you do or say to her will fix her, and it might provoke her to attack you again or accuse you of something.

Talk to your attorney and find out your options.

For example, I think if you act fast - today or tomorrow - you could probably get her out of the home and get a restraining order.  Let her find a place to live and pay for it with what she makes.  You keep paying the mortgage.  The court will establish a parenting schedule;  usually the child stays home during the week and spends some time on the weekend with the other parent.

Or you could move out and use your income to pay for a small place nearby, with a room for your daughter.  Let your wife use her income to pay the mortgage.  Order of protection so she can't come where you live.

You do not have to remain in a place where you are not safe, and you do not have to keep paying for everything.  If your lawyer doesn't give you any good options, talk to a different one.

You've been here since 2010 when your daughter was 11 and you were writing then about starting a divorce.  Four years later, you're still married, apparently nothing filed yet, daughter is four years older and 2-3 years from becoming an adult.

Pardon me for saying this, simply sending an email to your spouse protesting her abuse seems a bit minimal and ineffectual.  Sort of like sticking your arm back into a lion's cage and shake your finger at the lion for attacking you, you won't get a good reaction, for sure.  I fear your spouse may realize at some point that you might really file for divorce and then she will try to preempt you and strike first, making allegations of threat of DV, DV, child abuse, child neglect, child endangerment or some combination thereof... .and worse, your daughter who has had 4 additional years in a dysfunctional environment may be so influenced that she will support her.

I'm guessing that if you do file for divorce, you'll file for your daughter to live with you?  I worry that at her age, nearly ready to learn to drive, she may vote with her feet and choose to live with her mother regardless what any court order states.

Concerning your household finances... .Your spouse refuses to pay for the house.  That's because there is no court order mandating an equitable division of expenses you each pay.  Why don't you file asking for the temp order to have her contributing toward the home expenses?  You and your lawyer need to sit down and strategize the various scenarios, staying or going, with or without daughter.  You lawyer should be good enough to make sure any temporary order has you pay only a reasonable proportion of the household expenses since you spouse also works, especially if you're not going to be there.


You need to include that in your divorce motion.  (Why didn't you make a prompt police report or document it with your doctor?  The longer you wait the weaker your evidence will be and the less impact it will have.)

If you don't include statements of proofs of her abuse you can be sure she will be claiming that you are the out-of-control abuser in the home.  Well, she'll claim that anyway but at least getting this in first may help you look, um, less bad.  You can stake the stance that whatever she claims post-filing is sour grapes or retaliation or an attempt to sabotage your custody.

Do you want the house?  If not, in your filing ask for her to buy out your equity, if any, or if she declines then for it to be promptly sold and marital equity, if any, split.  The point is that you want any obligation on your part (mortgage) to be ended.  Can she afford to assume payments on the house?

Likely she'll try to keep your daughter for majority time and thus be able to get child support.  But if you're not living in the house then the court order ought to state she must pay for most or all of those expenses.

So don't get a wimpy form-filing attorney.  You need one to assertively represent you.  Proactive or else you'll be slammed every which way but up.  What is ProActive?


I repeat, if you are not proactive, you'll continue to choose inaction, a lousy strategy.  Yes, being proactive isn't going to be easy, your spouse will certainly oppose you and try to sabotage you, and possibly your daughter will join her too.  But the alternative is to continue with weak boundaries, weak strategies and always be on the defensive.  That's how I see it.

FD makes some good points.  (What hurts is that a few years ago he could have said pretty much the same stuff about me... .)

When she does something, like throwing something at you, or undermining your relationship with your daughter, and then you continue on in the relationship - you send her an e-mail which she can argue with, which accomplishes nothing and she probably enjoys the argument - you're sending her a signal:  "What you're doing is OK with me."

The only way to end this pattern is to take strong action to establish boundaries.  That's hard if you keep living with her.

Funny thing is, I actually did move out - for overseas assignment and kept extending it. Part of me was thinking DW can get a job, then it would be easier and less of a financial hassle with her working. Additionally, I came back thinking I could "be there" for my DD, but that doesn't seem to be working.  I am scheduled to leave on another deployment in 10 months, so I need to iron everything out by the time I get on a plane.  I called a DV hotline and they said next time - as hard as it may be  - call the police.  There is little they can do after the fact. 

I have another appointment with my attorney next week. 

Sadly, you may not have 10 months.  Things seldom get better or stay the same, the typical pattern is that it gets worse over time.  Partly it's because boundaries are always being tested and pushed, any weakness is seen as a success and enables/encourages even more pushing.

Wouldn't your life be better if you actually did something, sooner rather than later?  Listen to the DV hotline people, next time have your support/strategy ready.  It's been over four years waiting for the perfect time.  Not gonna happen.  Yes, you can bide your time for a while but at the next incident have your voice recorder working, get it recorded (to deflate the denials and counter-blaming to the professionals) then do what you have to do legally and get your life improved.  Forget the useless email that only eggs on denials, blaming and blame-shifting.  I mean, it's a good idea but not by itself, but it has to be coupled with a proactive strategy to triggers changes for the better.