Formflier is going to stand in front of the Landing Signal Officers

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

OK.hoping to inject some levity into this thread with the title... and a quick explanation.

After every landing aboard a carrier... . you stand tall in front of the ready room... . all you squadron mates looking hard at you as the LSOs grade your pass.  Some days you are a superstar... . some days a goat... .

That experience has built me some tough skin.  I may need it tomorrow.

Boy... I really don't want to "out" my self much more than I have... . but I'm a high county official... . and I have multiple bosses.

Anyway... . they know there has been an incident and I was asked to leave the home.  It will be discussed in a closed session tomorrow. 

My plan is to start off the meeting by playing the recording of what I tried to stop.

The other shocker that they will have to deal with... . and already have expressed shock at... . is that "their" DSS investigators... . note that also makes them "mine"... . refused to listen to objective evidence of the event and of alleged coaching of the people they based their decising on.

You can see what a mess this is going to be.

To add to this... . uBPDw has made some sort of allegation about me getting county money and misusing it.  The good news is that this allegation has actually put me in a better light... . because they (they two bosses I have talked to) realize that this is ridiculous to impossible.  I don't want to get into our procedures... . but if you told me "run off" with $30k in county money and not get caught... . I honestly don't know how to do it.

So... . tomorrow the circus gets even bigger.

Sigh...

I'm open for comments and questions.

Right now staying in a full time job is good... . because... . I'm essentially NC with family and need something to do.

[formflier]

OK.hoping to inject some levity into this thread with the title... and a quick explanation.

After every landing aboard a carrier... . you stand tall in front of the ready room... . all you squadron mates looking hard at you as the LSOs grade your pass.  Some days you are a superstar... . some days a goat... .

That experience has built me some tough skin.  I may need it tomorrow.

Boy... I really don't want to "out" my self much more than I have... . but I'm a high county official... . and I have multiple bosses.

Anyway... . they know there has been an incident and I was asked to leave the home.  It will be discussed in a closed session tomorrow. 

My plan is to start off the meeting by playing the recording of what I tried to stop.

The other shocker that they will have to deal with... . and already have expressed shock at... . is that "their" DSS investigators... . note that also makes them "mine"... . refused to listen to objective evidence of the event and of alleged coaching of the people they based their decising on.

You can see what a mess this is going to be.

To add to this... . uBPDw has made some sort of allegation about me getting county money and misusing it.  The good news is that this allegation has actually put me in a better light... . because they (they two bosses I have talked to) realize that this is ridiculous to impossible.  I don't want to get into our procedures... . but if you told me "run off" with $30k in county money and not get caught... . I honestly don't know how to do it.

So... . tomorrow the circus gets even bigger.

Sigh...

I'm open for comments and questions.

Right now staying in a full time job is good... . because... . I'm essentially NC with family and need something to do.

[livednlearned]

Formflier, you are definitely going through the wringer. 

My ex also made false allegations against me, and wrote emails to my bosses. It all worked out fine, maybe even made them more protective and supportive of me.

Are there any legal ramifications of playing the recording? I don't know. Your situation is unique. Can you run this by your lawyer before you meeting with your bosses?

[formflier]

Yep... i will ask him again if recordings are ok.  But NC is a one party consent state.  Basically if we are having a conversation... . I don't have to let you know or ask you if it is ok to record. 

But I will ask... . thanks for the question.

What kind of allegations got made against you... if you don't mind me asking.

Formflier, you are definitely going through the wringer. 

My ex also made false allegations against me, and wrote emails to my bosses. It all worked out fine, maybe even made them more protective and supportive of me.

Are there any legal ramifications of playing the recording? I don't know. Your situation is unique. Can you run this by your lawyer before you meeting with your bosses?

[Grey Kitty]

My plan is to start off the meeting by playing the recording of what I tried to stop.

The other shocker that they will have to deal with... . and already have expressed shock at... . is that "their" DSS investigators... . note that also makes them "mine"... . refused to listen to objective evidence of the event and of alleged coaching of the people they based their decising on.

I'd like to point out that your concern with your bosses is that they respect/trust you, not what they think of your wife. They could fire you. They cannot fire your wife. If they think badly enough of your wife, the only person they can really take it out on is you, not her!

So you have a fine line to walk regarding your wife's behavior. You don't want to make excuses for her, or enable her. You also lose if you appear to be painting her black.


And as for the DSS matter... . can you simply state that you would rather not be discussing this right now due to conflict of interest / personal bias (You were subject to sanctions by them, which appear to be improper/unjust in your eyes.) Perhaps it would be safer to discuss what DSS could/should do after the complaint is resolved.

DSS seems like quite enough of a minefield for you to be involved in personally without getting professionally involved too!



In your shoes, I'd think about various topics here, and ask myself something along the lines of "How am I harmed or how is my credibility harmed if I choose not to speak about this."

[formflier]

Yep... all good points.  I'm a hometown boy... . my wife is not from here.  I'm well known to them... . she is not.  That plays in my favor.  There is a strong sentiment of not liking outsiders to make out "locals" to be bad.  Some long stand stereotypes in the area that they are sensitive to.

I've been organizing some things I can show them... let them listen to to enable them to understand why I took a stand now.

I've also got organzied my text files where she is infering she is going to spread stuff around and get me fired... .

Yes they can fire me... . if it happens... . it happens... .

The biggest thing that I have to think through... . is to not state or infer anything that I can't prove.  To make clear what I "think" and what I "know".

More later... keep the questions coming

My plan is to start off the meeting by playing the recording of what I tried to stop.

The other shocker that they will have to deal with... . and already have expressed shock at... . is that "their" DSS investigators... . note that also makes them "mine"... . refused to listen to objective evidence of the event and of alleged coaching of the people they based their decising on.

I'd like to point out that your concern with your bosses is that they respect/trust you, not what they think of your wife. They could fire you. They cannot fire your wife. If they think badly enough of your wife, the only person they can really take it out on is you, not her!

So you have a fine line to walk regarding your wife's behavior. You don't want to make excuses for her, or enable her. You also lose if you appear to be painting her black.


And as for the DSS matter... . can you simply state that you would rather not be discussing this right now due to conflict of interest / personal bias (You were subject to sanctions by them, which appear to be improper/unjust in your eyes.) Perhaps it would be safer to discuss what DSS could/should do after the complaint is resolved.

DSS seems like quite enough of a minefield for you to be involved in personally without getting professionally involved too!



In your shoes, I'd think about various topics here, and ask myself something along the lines of "How am I harmed or how is my credibility harmed if I choose not to speak about this."

[Matt]

Wow... lots to deal with.

I've had to handle some difficult information in my profession, and I also had to handle it when my wife accused me of assault.  Here's what more-or-less worked... .

First, I would get your story of what happened very clear in your mind, and practice telling it briefly.  Learn to tell what happened in a minute or two, making sure to make the key points and not get distracted.

Also, think of questions that are likely to be asked, and be prepared with good, simple, clear answers - again, learn to say the key stuff succinctly.

By preparing, you'll be able to say what you need to say without losing everybody's attention or wandering off into less-important issues.

In the meeting, take the lead, not by pushing aside whoever called the meeting, but by working with that person to first make clear what is the purpose of the meeting, and then to give your account, so that will be everybody's first exposure to the information.

You might want to start by saying you regret that they all have to deal with this issue - "I'm sorry you all have to take your time to deal with this issue and I'll do everything I can to minimize the time it takes you away from other things you need to get done."

Then let them ask questions, and stick to the answers you thought through.  Careful not to let anybody frame the issue in a way that isn't fair to you;  if a question includes an assumption, note that and then re-frame the issue.

If somebody asks, "Why did you do X instead of Y?", you might answer, "It sounds like you think I did X, not Y.  The reality is, I've always done Y - never X.  So whoever is saying I did X, you need to question everything that person is telling you - there may be other bad information coming from them too."  Turn it around, so instead of staying on the defensive, you put the spotlight back on whoever is making the accusations.

Be confident and consistent, not defensive.  Listen carefully so you are sure you know what is being asked.

Look for a way to state, near the end of the meeting, that the accusations are completely false and that there is no evidence to support them.

Finish by asking if anybody has any more questions, and if not, what will happen next.

About the audio recording... .

Careful how you introduce this information.  Sense whether they are all willing to hear what happened, or eager to find an excuse not to deal with it.  You might even ask, "I have an audio recording of what happened - you can hear exactly what took place - would you like to hear it?"  If you're too eager, that might make them suspicious - maybe the recording is fake somehow.  But if you sense they trust you and really want to know what happened, the audio might help.

I would avoid trashing your wife explicitly, but just state what happened.  Not "She's crazy but nobody listens to me!", but "I heard her hitting my five-year-old so I intervened to protect him."  Keep the focus on your kids, and on your efforts to protect them.  Mention your wife as little as possible.

Regarding the DSS, I would again suggest telling what you know - don't hold back to protect them, and don't lash out in anger - state what happened - "I offered to give the audio file to them so they could determine what happened but they didn't want to listen to it."

It may be hard to stay calm and objective;  you will be on the hot seat.  If you have thought through what you're going to say very thoroughly, it may be easier to remain calm and state what happened, and answer their questions, and not appear defensive or biased.

[Matt]

A couple more thoughts, about text files and being fired.

On my iPhone I can do a screen-capture by pushing the power button and the home button at the same time.  Then I can e-mail that screen grab to my computer, and it looks just like my phone.  I can show a text conversation on my computer, or print it out, and it looks exactly like my phone.  You might want to do that, to have some hard copies of key text conversations, with dates and times.

About being fired... .

I very much doubt that you can be legally fired at this point.  You might want to find out by talking to your attorney or somehow researching the law.  Don't ask the HR person because she will be looking out for your employer's interests not you;  be very careful what you say when she is in the room.

You don't want to be confrontational, but if you sense that they are considering firing you, you might be able to find a subtle way to say, "I realize this is a problem for the county, and you need to figure out the right thing to do, and I'll cooperate with that the best I can.  My understanding is that your options are pretty limited - since there is no evidence against me I don't think you can fire me, for example - but I'd like to help you the best I can by giving you the information you need to put this behind us."  In other words, "I know my rights and you can't fire me.  But I'll go through the motions so you can say you followed the right procedure."

The sooner you consult with a lawyer the better - before the meeting if possible.  He might be able to tell you key things to not say.

[Grey Kitty]

I agree--don't state things you can't prove.

Also realize that proving some things won't help you. For example, having a recording of your wife contradicting herself could help you "win" a he said/she said argument.

However proving that your wife is a liar isn't going to help you. Instead you risk looking bad and defensive.

If your wife is shown to be lying in an allegation against you, those chips should fall where they will... . but generally attacking your wife's credibility in front of this audience isn't likely to help you.

Yes they can fire me... . if it happens... . it happens... .

Yeah, I knew you knew that... . my point was that they cannot 'fire' your wife or do anything directly to her. So you have very little to gain by turning them against your wife.

[Matt]

However proving that your wife is a liar isn't going to help you. Instead you risk looking bad and defensive.

If your wife is shown to be lying in an allegation against you, those chips should fall where they will... . but generally attacking your wife's credibility in front of this audience isn't likely to help you.

A few months after I was accused of assault, I was up for a job that I really needed.  I decided to take the initiative, and not wait to see if the HR manager found out about it when she did the background check.

I gathered the key information - the police report that proved she had lied, etc. - and wrote a very brief cover letter stating what had happened and giving the URLs so they could verify everything online.  When the HR manager told me they would make an offer after doing the background check, I summarized what had happened, and gave her the file so should could draw her own conclusions:

"There's one thing that will probably come up on the background check, so I brought you some information that will help you get the story.  In December, I was physically assaulted in my home, and then accused of harming the other party.  The police investigated and found that the other party was not telling the truth, and the charges against me were dropped.  The police report is here along with the other public records which all say the same thing.  If you have any questions after looking into that, I'll be glad to answer them."

It worked perfectly - she thanked me for being open about it, checked it all out, and I got the offer in a couple of days.

I think that approach - openness about what happened - not attacking "the other party" but also not protecting her from the truth - is probably best for you too.

And I have to say, if there is any doubt as to whether you are denying the accusation - if you don't say very clearly, "These accusations are false and are not backed up by any evidence." - a very, very clear statement that you are 100% innocent - then they may take that as an admission you did something wrong.  "If he didn't do it, he would have said 'I didn't do it.'  But he didn't say that so he must have done something wrong."

[formflier]

 

All good stuff keep it coming.  It may take one or two replies to get all this answered.  But I will try.

Also... the "allegation" is that my kids told the DSS investigators that the "fear" me.  There is no implication of assault or otherwise.

My wife has made some sort of allegation to someone... . that I have taken county funds for some purpose for myself.  I would guess this story has been passed through several ears and mouths... . and I probably heard something far different from what... . if anything... . was alleged.

So... . to the point of do my kids fear me?  I can't speak to that... . that's their opinion.  I can truthfully speak to and back up with a recording that my my coached them on what to say.  To this allegation... . there may be no resolution... . because it can never been "proven"... . it's an opinion.

To the allegation of me taking money.  It's 100% false... .   It can be easily verified.  I can show threats of making me look bad.  I can show her actually moving money where it shouldn't go.   

I can show her accessing my county email and sending email from it.  Oddly enough... . she was trying to find a marriage counselor.  Used my email but put her name to it at the bottom.  It was either a veiled message or complete technical incompetance or buffoonery... . either is possible.  She is not very tech savy.

Last but not least... . she got my county credit card and purchased something with it online.  It was this incident which pushed me over the edge to start imposing limits and restricting passwords from her.  I had been considering doing it... . but hadn't got ready to do it yet.

I will have this stuff available for inspection... . whether it comes up... . we'll see.

[formflier]

However proving that your wife is a liar isn't going to help you. Instead you risk looking bad and defensive.

If your wife is shown to be lying in an allegation against you, those chips should fall where they will... . but generally attacking your wife's credibility in front of this audience isn't likely to help you.

I see the point here... and that was really my plan to show that... . in the context of the current allegation of money misconduct... . that she is lying.  As opposed to trying to tie several unrelated things together to show a pattern.  I will have several things ready... . if they want to pursue this line of thinking... . but I only plan to address the allegation "on the table".    I do think that showing proof she has threatened my job is in line with taking care of the allegation on the table.  I still need to think on that... . but my gut right now says the two are tied together.

I will have other information available in my folder... . that I have been orgainzing... to show various other plots that I am alleged to have been involved in against family and friends.  But I don't plan to introduce them as part of my central argument.  Note:  I really doubt they will want to dig.  But in the spirit of not wanting to talk about what I can't prove... . I will have copies with me.

[formflier]

I very much doubt that you can be legally fired at this point.  You might want to find out by talking to your attorney or somehow researching the law.  Don't ask the HR person because she will be looking out for your employer's interests not you;  be very careful what you say when she is in the room.

The complications for working in a small county continue to make me smile sometimes... . or I could cry.  I choose to chuckle.

We have no formal HR person.  I have a gal that does some paperwork for me.  Getting a formal HR director with that specialized training has been on my list... . I doubt it will happen this budget year.  So... . the person looking out for my employer's interests is me... . but I have a conflict of interest... .   Sigh... .

To say this is a convoluted situation... . is an understatement. 

[Matt]

So let's brainstorm how each of these issues could be handled - not saying this is the right way, just one approach... .

The money issues:

"My wife has been going through some extreme emotional issues and has done some things which I regret.

"In particular, she accessed my county e-mail without my permission or knowledge.  I have copies here of the e-mails she sent - these are your copies.  Of course when I found out I changed my password, and I have taken steps to make sure she no longer has access to my laptop.  So that will not happen again.

"She also took my county credit card, without my permission, and made one purchase.  Again, I've taken steps to make sure that can't happen again, and I have copies here of the receipt for the purchase she made, and a check from me to the county to cover that cost.

"I have also heard rumors that she may have told someone I misused county funds.  There is no truth to this at all, and I'll be glad to help anyone who needs to look into that - I'll provide any information I have, to help that investigation."

The "fear" issue is tougher but I'll take a stab at it:

"I have heard that she filed a complaint against me with the DSS, and got some of my kids to agree to things she was saying.  I won't go into personal matters in detail, but I can say I have done nothing wrong and when I have the opportunity to talk to DSS I will share with them everything I know.  I even have an audio recording of what happened at that time - I'd be glad to share it with you if you are interested - and I'll provide that to DSS so they can draw the correct conclusions.

"I'm very upset that these things are happening, and I'm dealing with them the best way I know how, and I wish they did not impact the county or take up your time.  The bottom line is, I have done nothing wrong and there is no evidence of any support that backs up any of the accusations that have been made."

Or something like that.

Not too speechy or rehearsed, but think about the right way to say your truth and be prepared to say it very confidently.

[formflier]

I need help with a succinct statement about why my children may have reported they fear me

Facts: 

1. Mommy coaches them on this.  Not just the night of the interview.

I choose not to put them in tug of war and argue or present my case.


2. I can't remember using any corporal punishment in months... . and I may not have in almost a year.  Trying to remember.  When she started escalating... . part of my plan to deconflict the situation was to no longer to that.  I would used timeouts... . groundings... .

3. I can't argue with their opinion... but I can state that I know of nothing recent (past 4-5 months) that should cause alarm. 

4.  Before I knew about BPD... . I would engage in arguments... they would spill out in front of kids.  Looking back... . I can't understand how I did that... . but I did it.  Also those were usually in a sleep deprived state.  I'm guessing I should stay away from talking about this

5.  The story that DSS has is that I have PTSD that is causing all this.  I can show written communication from my wife stating that I refuse to take meds.  Well... . my T and Psychologist are both happy with my compliance and have said they will state that.  I won't have those statements for tomorrow... . but I know I can get them... . if I ever need.


All of these numbers don't represent my statement... . just facts for you guys to help me craft something... . and for you guys to see info that you can warn me to stay away from or to go after.


Last couple nights have been good sleep for me.  I believe I can be centered and calm tomorrow.  I will make sure I have had food and water.  And have extra water with me.  Even without that... . I'm familiar with the group and speaking in front of them.  I do it all the tiime about many weird, controversial, confindential things... . in this case... it just so happens to be about me.

[formflier]

Good stuff... . I just made another post with additional info... . but I like how this is developing.

Shorter the better... . confident but not rehearsed.

So let's brainstorm how each of these issues could be handled - not saying this is the right way, just one approach... .

The money issues:

"My wife has been going through some extreme emotional issues and has done some things which I regret.

"In particular, she accessed my county e-mail without my permission or knowledge.  I have copies here of the e-mails she sent - these are your copies.  Of course when I found out I changed my password, and I have taken steps to make sure she no longer has access to my laptop.  So that will not happen again.

"She also took my county credit card, without my permission, and made one purchase.  Again, I've taken steps to make sure that can't happen again, and I have copies here of the receipt for the purchase she made, and a check from me to the county to cover that cost.

"I have also heard rumors that she may have told someone I misused county funds.  There is no truth to this at all, and I'll be glad to help anyone who needs to look into that - I'll provide any information I have, to help that investigation."

The "fear" issue is tougher but I'll take a stab at it:

"I have heard that she filed a complaint against me with the DSS, and got some of my kids to agree to things she was saying.  I won't go into personal matters in detail, but I can say I have done nothing wrong and when I have the opportunity to talk to DSS I will share with them everything I know.  I even have an audio recording of what happened at that time - I'd be glad to share it with you if you are interested - and I'll provide that to DSS so they can draw the correct conclusions.

"I'm very upset that these things are happening, and I'm dealing with them the best way I know how, and I wish they did not impact the county or take up your time.  The bottom line is, I have done nothing wrong and there is no evidence of any support that backs up any of the accusations that have been made."

Or something like that.

Not too speechy or rehearsed, but think about the right way to say your truth and be prepared to say it very confidently.

[Matt]

Keep it short and simple, and focus on facts.  It is not a fact that "Mommy coaches them on this."  (Well, it might be a fact to you, because you are there.  But it won't sound like a fact to others.

If you say, "On Tuesday I heard Mrs. Flier say to S5, ':)addy is crazy.'" - that's a fact, because you are stating exactly what you heard with your own ears.  But even that might not sound very good to your co-workers - too much information.

For your co-workers, you can't win by arguing your case, because it's not their place to judge, and they haven't heard the other side.  All you can do is handle yourself gracefully and professionally, and state the basic truths - "I have heard that there was an accusation against me with DSS, but I have not had the opportunity to talk to them yet.  There is no truth to the accusation, and I have documentation to prove that." or whatever is your truth.  Not all the details you shared with us in 1. through 5.  (I understand you are sharing those with us as part of this discussion, not as a draft of your statement.)

I've taken a few stabs at it;  now why don't you do one.  Pretend you are in front of your co-workers, and you've got the floor.  What will you say?

Then, what are the questions you expect to be asked - especially the ones you hope you won't be asked - and how can you answer them?

[Matt]

I think it would also be worth "practicing" (maybe just in your mind) your body language.  When we're nervous, we men sometimes do a pretty horrible job with that.

Wear blue, white and tan - the colors of truth.  Similar to what you usually wear at work.

Bring a notebook, and use it to make notes when others are talking, so you aren't tempted to interrupt.  If somebody says something that isn't correct, write it down as close to word-for-word as you can;  then when it's your turn, repeat it - "Bill, a few minutes ago you said, ':)SS says you did X.'  Actually DSS has not issued their report, and I have not met with them yet, so they would be way out of line if they said I did anything;  and there is no evidence at all that I ever did X, because I have never done X.  When I meet with them, I'll give them the documentation so they will know that." - repeat it while looking right at him, not in a confrontational way, but making eye contact very consistently.

Sit up straight but try to relax.  Make eye contact with each person in turn, especially with the person that asked you each question.  If someone interrupts, let them - let them say what they want to say, and answer that - and then without hesitating - so you don't lose the floor again - repeat your last sentence and move forward with the rest of what you need to say.

Try not to repeat yourself, but if you are asked a question that you already answered, don't get huffy, just repeat the information that was requested.  Assume that everyone is there trying to be objective and looking for information, and it's your job to provide information, not to make an argument.  But if someone is confrontational, or argumentative, address what they are asking very directly but very calmly and without taking offense - your job is to give them the right information.  Don't return their attitude in kind.

Hope this is helping... . I'm not the expert but I've been through a few of these over the years... .

[formflier]

Very helpful.

With co workers... . I will have a small canned statement.  "My family and I are working through some issues... . thanks for expressing concern."


For my bosses... . I need to think that through.  I'll try to take a stab at that in the morning.

Thanks for all the help.

I think i'm about 90% ready... . just some finishing touches.

Keep it short and simple, and focus on facts.  It is not a fact that "Mommy coaches them on this."  (Well, it might be a fact to you, because you are there.  But it won't sound like a fact to others.

If you say, "On Tuesday I heard Mrs. Flier say to S5, ':)addy is crazy.'" - that's a fact, because you are stating exactly what you heard with your own ears.  But even that might not sound very good to your co-workers - too much information.

For your co-workers, you can't win by arguing your case, because it's not their place to judge, and they haven't heard the other side.  All you can do is handle yourself gracefully and professionally, and state the basic truths - "I have heard that there was an accusation against me with DSS, but I have not had the opportunity to talk to them yet.  There is no truth to the accusation, and I have documentation to prove that." or whatever is your truth.  Not all the details you shared with us in 1. through 5.  (I understand you are sharing those with us as part of this discussion, not as a draft of your statement.)

I've taken a few stabs at it;  now why don't you do one.  Pretend you are in front of your co-workers, and you've got the floor.  What will you say?

Then, what are the questions you expect to be asked - especially the ones you hope you won't be asked - and how can you answer them?

[livednlearned]

Don't tell them your wife is probably BPD. It's so tempting to do, but will backfire.

You live in a small town. Bosses have spouses. You don't need your wife -- someone who copes by projecting -- to discover that the town thinks she has a mental illness. She'll get busy projecting that onto you. 

[Matt]

Don't tell them your wife is probably BPD. It's so tempting to do, but will backfire.

You live in a small town. Bosses have spouses. You don't need your wife -- someone who copes by projecting -- to discover that the town thinks she has a mental illness. She'll get busy projecting that onto you. 

Yes, and it would also take you out of the mode of telling what you know.  Your credibility would be damaged.

"I think my wife probably has BPD."

"Really?  How do you know?  Was she diagnosed?  Are you qualified to diagnose her?  Who else do you think probably has some problem that you read about?"

[Waddams]

I think keeping as much discretion as possible is probably best at this point.

I like the idea of simply saying your family has been having some escalating drama and issues and they are now spilling out in a manner that you can't continue to try to keep it all behind closed doors, so you're seeking help from the appropriate authorities.

Then play the recordings of the beatings and the coaching.  Then say you went to the authorities, the authorities DID NOT give you the chance to have your say, and issued what they did.  That's all just facts.  Tell them you are continuing to seek intervention that will protect your children from further harm, and at this point, beyond that, you don't really want to say or reveal too much more as there are likely legal and other issues and remedies in the future for you.

As for accusations of stealing money from the county, she make whatever accusation she wants, you can show your financial records and show it's not true, but you can also fall back on the fact that the county isn't missing a big sum of money.  Kind of hard for you to have stolen something if nothing is missing to start with!

At most, you can then point to her behavior (and just the behavior you can unequivocally document) and call it what it is... . a smear campaign in retaliation for standing up to her abuse, putting your foot down, and telling her no more.  Then try to turn the subject of discussions to your commitment to your job and continuing to do the best you can and not letting outside distractions effect your job performance.

I have to point out, not in a "told you so kind of way", but really more for other readers that this would be a great time to be able to pull out copy of restraining order.  When dealing with BPD's, they are so good at manipulating, sometimes they've laid the groundwork for these situations years ahead of time.  I really think a restraining order is the best place to start when dealing with a violent BPD.  Ex parte, just you and a judge and the documentation.  The BPD doesn't get a chance to manipulate anything.  Get that ex parte order first, then get it approved at the follow up hearing.  Then you've got court orders and the evidence they were based on that DSS agencies, other cops/sheriffs/bosses/family court judges/GAL's/custody evaluators/etc. cannot ignore. 

[ForeverDad]

To add to this... . uBPDw has made some sort of allegation about me getting county money and misusing it.

This is part of ex's spitball blitz strategy, make so many allegations that (1) at least some might stick or (2) those hearing the allegations will assume that surely at least some on them must be valid, as in, where there's smoke there surely must be some fire somewhere.

I've been organizing some things I can show them... let them listen to to enable them to understand why I took a stand now.

This is a valid question in their minds. "Why didn't you do something before it got this bad?"  And a valid response is that you weren't trained as a counselor, therapist or psychologist.  You were just dealing with a difficult situation all this time, not knowing what you were dealing with and not knowing other ways to deal with it.

The sooner you consult with a lawyer the better - before the meeting if possible.  He might be able to tell you key things to not say.

This applies to just about every scenario you face now, with evaluators, with family court, etc.  You don't have to volunteer 'all' information.  As my lawyer always used to say, his first job is to sit on his clients so they can't complicate their situation even more.

I'm guessing I should stay away from talking about this.

Beware of talking too much.  Your lawyer - is he or she good enough to advise you what not to say?  Have you had a practice session where your lawyer corrects you or rephrases things to avoid subtle traps.  Saying "Yes, but... . " is a problem because possibly all they'll hear is the first word and ignore the rest.

Also... the "allegation" is that my kids told the DSS investigators that the "fear" me.  There is no implication of assault or otherwise.

Due to the DV laws such as Violence Against Women Act - sorry but men apparently can't be victims? - judges are sometimes reluctant to deny protections for claimed 'fearfulness'.  Just in case.  Same for the DSS investigators, they may have been motivated by the goal to resolve the immediate incident, right or wrong, leaving further resolution to more in-depth assessments.  However the concern is that they probably won't want to reverse their initial assessment since it could make them look bad.  Expect some sidestepping and minimizing.

[formflier]

On the ex-parte order thing.  If I had to have a "redo" today... . I think I would have taken that road.  However... . that road would have involved another day (at least) before I could get before the judge.

I had made a decision in my mind that I was not going to let it "slide" any longer and do something to shake this up.


When you guys here me talking about my evaluating my decision making... . the... . "if I had to decide right now"... . is huge to me.  So... I may have a different take later... after I have more facts.

I think keeping as much discretion as possible is probably best at this point.

I like the idea of simply saying your family has been having some escalating drama and issues and they are now spilling out in a manner that you can't continue to try to keep it all behind closed doors, so you're seeking help from the appropriate authorities.

Then play the recordings of the beatings and the coaching.  Then say you went to the authorities, the authorities DID NOT give you the chance to have your say, and issued what they did.  That's all just facts.  Tell them you are continuing to seek intervention that will protect your children from further harm, and at this point, beyond that, you don't really want to say or reveal too much more as there are likely legal and other issues and remedies in the future for you.

As for accusations of stealing money from the county, she make whatever accusation she wants, you can show your financial records and show it's not true, but you can also fall back on the fact that the county isn't missing a big sum of money.  Kind of hard for you to have stolen something if nothing is missing to start with!

At most, you can then point to her behavior (and just the behavior you can unequivocally document) and call it what it is... . a smear campaign in retaliation for standing up to her abuse, putting your foot down, and telling her no more.  Then try to turn the subject of discussions to your commitment to your job and continuing to do the best you can and not letting outside distractions effect your job performance.

I have to point out, not in a "told you so kind of way", but really more for other readers that this would be a great time to be able to pull out copy of restraining order.  When dealing with BPD's, they are so good at manipulating, sometimes they've laid the groundwork for these situations years ahead of time.  I really think a restraining order is the best place to start when dealing with a violent BPD.  Ex parte, just you and a judge and the documentation.  The BPD doesn't get a chance to manipulate anything.  Get that ex parte order first, then get it approved at the follow up hearing.  Then you've got court orders and the evidence they were based on that DSS agencies, other cops/sheriffs/bosses/family court judges/GAL's/custody evaluators/etc. cannot ignore. 

[GaGrl]

Your wife may think that a charge on the county credit/debit card is misuse.  That interpretation is up to the county.  If it was repaid due to it being a mistake, may be no harm/no foul, especially if it had not been used for personal items before or since.

Several county officials in our metro system are currently under fire for gross misuse of their county debit cards, to the tune of 10s of thousands of dollars.

[livednlearned]

Also... the "allegation" is that my kids told the DSS investigators that the "fear" me.  There is no implication of assault or otherwise.

Due to the DV laws such as Violence Against Women Act - sorry but men apparently can't be victims? - judges are sometimes reluctant to deny protections for claimed 'fearfulness'.  Just in case.  Same for the DSS investigators, they may have been motivated by the goal to resolve the immediate incident, right or wrong, leaving further resolution to more in-depth assessments.  However the concern is that they probably won't want to reverse their initial assessment since it could make them look bad.  Expect some sidestepping and minimizing.

It's very likely that the DSS social workers are working from a score card. Literally a scoring card. So answers to questions might be a zero, other answers might be a 1.

Do either of the parents have a diagnosed mental health illness? Father: 1. (PTSD).

Are there any marks on the children? 0

Have there been any restraining or protective orders been filed to indicate DV? 1.

[Matt]

This is kind of off-topic, but just for reference - something that can be extremely important if the situation gets worse:

FD mentioned the "Violence Against Women Act".  About 20 states (including mine) interpret the VAWA in a way that requires all law enforcement officers to put the protection of the woman ahead of all other considerations;  that is, if a woman accuses a man of hurting or threatening her, even if there is no evidence to support the accusation, and even if the evidence proves beyond any doubt that her accusation is false, the officers are required to assume the accusation is true, and to arrest and charge the man accordingly.

The "logic" behind this is, if the man is removed from the home, then nobody will be hurt, and the court can sort it all out later.  (This assumes that the man is the source of the violence, which is true about half the time.)

There are court cases arguing that this is unconstitutional, because it deprives the man of due process.  But until those cases are decided, and the VAWA is thrown out or modified, or those 20 states change their interpretation of it, that is moot.  We are living with these rules.

What it means in practice is that a woman can call 911 and say anything she wants, and that is taken as "probable cause", and the man will be arrested, charged, and even held without bail if the accusation is serious enough.  Even if the charges are ultimately dropped, it can be expensive and very stressful, and can impact your career and reputation.

(My own experience with this will be detailed in my forthcoming book, "Yo White Man You Snoring! - My Sixteen Hours Of Hard Time".)

And women who do this are almost never given any consequences, even if they do it repeatedly.

The only way to avoid all this for sure - or at least almost for sure - is to never be around a woman who might do that.  A woman who has made false accusations before, or who has threatened to "get you", is a ticking time-bomb.

(I'm not sure how different things are in the other 30 states.  My guess is, you could be at similar risk even in those states which don't have that particular interpretation of the VAWA.)

[formflier]

Do you know if NC is one of those states?

This is kind of off-topic, but just for reference - something that can be extremely important if the situation gets worse:

FD mentioned the "Violence Against Women Act".  About 20 states (including mine) interpret the VAWA in a way that requires all law enforcement officers to put the protection of the woman ahead of all other considerations;  that is, if a woman accuses a man of hurting or threatening her, even if there is no evidence to support the accusation, and even if the evidence proves beyond any doubt that her accusation is false, the officers are required to assume the accusation is true, and to arrest and charge the man accordingly.

The "logic" behind this is, if the man is removed from the home, then nobody will be hurt, and the court can sort it all out later.  (This assumes that the man is the source of the violence, which is true about half the time.)

There are court cases arguing that this is unconstitutional, because it deprives the man of due process.  But until those cases are decided, and the VAWA is thrown out or modified, or those 20 states change their interpretation of it, that is moot.  We are living with these rules.

What it means in practice is that a woman can call 911 and say anything she wants, and that is taken as "probable cause", and the man will be arrested, charged, and even held without bail if the accusation is serious enough.  Even if the charges are ultimately dropped, it can be expensive and very stressful, and can impact your career and reputation.

(My own experience with this will be detailed in my forthcoming book, "Yo White Man You Snoring! - My Sixteen Hours Of Hard Time".)

And women who do this are almost never given any consequences, even if they do it repeatedly.

The only way to avoid all this for sure - or at least almost for sure - is to never be around a woman who might do that.  A woman who has made false accusations before, or who has threatened to "get you", is a ticking time-bomb.

(I'm not sure how different things are in the other 30 states.  My guess is, you could be at similar risk even in those states which don't have that particular interpretation of the VAWA.)

[Matt]

No, I don't.  You can probably find out online somehow.  (I found out about my state's interpretation of the VAWA the hard way.)

But if you aren't around her without a non-family adult third party present all the time, it doesn't matter.

[formflier]

Good news!

I couldn't ask for a more supportive board.

I briefly sketched out the story.  Told them I was an open book for future inquiries.

Most of them expessed that I could call them for advice... . some hinted they had been in similar situations.

So... . this is a good thing.

[Matt]

Good news!

I couldn't ask for a more supportive board.

I briefly sketched out the story.  Told them I was an open book for future inquiries.

Most of them expessed that I could call them for advice... . some hinted they had been in similar situations.

So... . this is a good thing.

Wow - congratulations!  Sounds like you handled it well.

There's a good lesson here - one I found too - when you talk about stuff like this, more people than I expected either said, "Yeah, that happened to me too." or at least hinted at something similar.  I wasn't as alone as I thought!